Excommunicated Part 6 of 7

[jgaz10]

Prior to leaving the LDS Church, I spoke with a LDS friend because I was having doubts about the Book of Mormon being true. She said, "It's OK to have questions, but it's not OK to question the Church."

[LDStothecore]

We don't believe in a different Jesus, but the same with some different characteristics. Also, the goal of the LDS church is NOT to deceive, but to bring people to Christ. We don't lie about the truth. The deceipt is well documented by anti-Mormons. You people can criticize and judge us all you want, but the church will roll forth.

[tattoodfreeek]

@LDStothecore the same Jesus, but with some different characteristics? Sooooooo, a different Jesus then!!!

[LDStothecore]

@tattoodfreeek Not at all. We follow the Christ of the Bible. Say what you will, but that is who I follow and believe in.

[tattoodfreeek]

@LDStothecore If you look into it, which, I'm sorry to say, most Mormons wont, you'll find that the Christ you believe in has some fundamental differences that the Jesus of the new testament.

[LDStothecore]

@tattoodfreeek Examples? Besides, Joseph Smith actually spoke face to face with Jesus, so he knows more than anyone how Christ is.

[tattoodfreeek]

@LDStothecore When you consider that the first record of the first vision wasn't written down for at least 7 years after it happened, and there are several versions of it, ranging from seeing an angel to God and Christ, I'd take that with a pinch of salt! If some uneducated hill billy turned round and claimed he'd seen God and Christ now, you'd dismiss him as a fool!! Give me a break!

[LDStothecore]

@tattoodfreeek Again, examples?

[tattoodfreeek]

@LDStothecore "In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times.

[LDStothecore]

@tattoodfreeek No problem with what he said. We believe in the Christ of the Bible, but he was not saying we don't believe in Christ at all. We believe Jesus is alive, with His Father and they both have bodies of flesh and bone and are two separate beings.

[Exodus314IAM]

@LDStothecore The question is who do you worship? Jesus, the Spirit or the Father? if you worship the Father then the Father is Spirit (John 4:24) and the spirit does not have a body (Luke 24:39). You see this goes against the D&C 130:22 where it says the Father has a body of flesh and bone. You see there is ONE GOD and God is invisible so how can He have a body (Romans 1:19-20, 1 Timothy 1:17, 6:15-16)?

Seek the truth!

[LDStothecore]

@Exodus314IAM Like all anti-Mormons, you neglect to research what we actually believe and make things up.

[Exodus314IAM]

@LDStothecore First what did I make up? D&C 130:22? nope Mormons did that. Where God is Spirit and Spirit has no Flesh of Bone? nope that is God. So what did "I" make up? as for anti-Mormon what makes me anti-Mormon that I do not agree with you? or that I tell you the truth and you do not want to hear it?

So by your ideas you are Anti- Christ like (Christian).

[LDStothecore]

@Exodus314IAM Are you saying God made it up? That's where the D&C came from. You don't tell the truth and like I said you have not researched at all.

[Exodus314IAM]

@LDStothecore So God made up all the D&C's? So then how many wives do you have? D&C 132??? Or is that one not from God but the rest are? I know you feel the pressure from God trying to show you the truth, seek the truth my friend and run from all these "do" "do" "do" in the LDS and just seek Jesus and the Truth in Jesus Christ not the brother of Satan.

[LDStothecore]

@Exodus314IAM God is the author of the D&C just like He is the author of the Bible. I feel no pressure, but concern for the lost. What about D&C 132?

[Exodus314IAM]

@LDStothecore D&C 132 and what I asked, how many wives are you sealed to? Are you married? according to Doctrines of Salvation 2:74 you must be in order to reach "exaltation". Also where in the Bible does it ever show us Marriage in the Temple? Where to Mormons get this stuff from?

Please seek the truth I know that God has hardened your heart but maybe if you open your eyes to the truth you may have a chance in the eyes of God!!

[LDStothecore]

@Exodus314IAM D&C 132 does not say plural marriage is required, but marriage is required to be exalted. The Bible, as far as I know, does not talk about Temple marriage, but it does mention the sealing power given to Peter See Matt 16:19. I have found the truth. The truth is in Christ.

[tattoodfreeek]

@LDStothecore He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'" (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7).

[LDStothecore]

@tattoodfreeek True.

[tattoodfreeek]

@LDStothecore plus the simple fact that LDS believe in God, Christ and the Holy Spirit being 3 separate beings, where as Christians believe in the trinity! That Jesus was the Jehovah/God of the old testamnet!

[LDStothecore]

@tattoodfreeek We believe Jesus was Jehovah. And the trinity is a myth made up by men. It is not in the Bible. It doesn't matter what men believe, but what is true.

[tattoodfreeek]

@LDStothecore not in the Bible! So like there is nothing in the BoM of baptisms for the dead, nothing about doing family history, nothing about tithing, in fact it states in Mormon 8:32 says that false churches will tell you that your sins are forgiven if you pay them money, there's nothing about the pre-existence, nothing about the three levels of heaven!  All the things you believe in seem to have been tagged on as an after thought!

[LDStothecore]

@tattoodfreeek We do not pay to have sins forgiven. Tithing is in the Bible, Old and New Testaments. There is plenty in the Bible to back up a premortal existence and three degrees of glory. The Book of Mormon does not have to mention everything. It confounds false doctrine and shows where true is found. And we have living prophets today.

[tattoodfreeek]

@LDStothecore the Bible has the three degrees of glory? so why is it that the mormon church is the only one to say anything about it? I'm sorry, but to be honest, you're just another apologist who will say anything to make your religion out to be right! next you'll be sending me atheist material to prove that the bible is false! you guys just seem to have the bull shit down to an art form!!!!

[jkulesha]

The book of mormon says jesus was God, the other teachings in pearl of great price reveal jesus was ordained as God over the earth... making sense of the fact that jesus prayed to his father and not himself when he came to earth.

[beau4307]

Contribution: $3 Billion dollar mall. The LDS Church is free market capitalist religion. So much has changed in the past 20-30 years.

[TheKyPatriot1]

I find it quiet funny this man likens the LDS church to the titanic but his math and his statistics are false. There are over 13.5 million LDS members now and the church is growing everyday. I was a Full time Pastor and Evangelist but by the power of the Holy Ghost received a testimony of the Book of Mormon and I am getting baptized in the LDS church. I was a worldwide Radio Evangelist but i am proud to bear my testimony to the world in the name of Jesus Christ.

[almax84]

but that is in america! that's easy it just is around the corner...for example, when here in italy we had an earthquake in april that destroyed an entire small town leavin everybody homeless i saw no mormons coming. you live of hearsay

[corneliusgoldlover]

Trust me, if there were any Mormon missionaries around, they were helping. Membership in Italy is very small but growing. I showed you more than 1 example so be happy with it. You know that the Church helps greatly wherever and whenever they can. Many factual faults exist within other Christian churches but you'll never hear about that. Please tell me why that is? I love seeing "Christians" at the AZ Easter Pageant. protesting against the Mormons. It makes them feel good about themselves.

[electroxjunkie]

I've noticed a lot of tiptoeing going on with comments left by Mormons on these videos. Shadiness on one subject, but brazen trumpeting on another. And then a Mormon tells you, "Come to mass with us, find out for yourself". And I'm supposed to say "FUCK YEAH! WHY AREN'T WE DOING THAT NOW?!!"

[corneliusgoldlover]

Haha! When would a Mormon ever say mass?! Haha?! They don't! You are thinking of Catholics buddy. But in regards to the "ship sinking"; it's not going anywhere Mr. Lamborn. The Church has become a power house because we do what most of America doesn't; save our money and invest it in good assets for the many rainy days that are coming! Think about it unbiasedly. The Church is the largest foreign land owner in the UK, largest cattle ranch in America and has ZERO debt! We invest in REAL assets.

[Doliath]

I see that as evidence of spiritual corruption.

[corneliusgoldlover]

Spiritual corruption?! We have NO paid clergy. The majority of the top officials are retired older men that made livings elsewhere. We don't get PAID to preach the word of God. So tell me how this is spiritual corruption. ZERO PAID CLERGY! The Church utilizes its funds as best as possible. In fact, the majority of Church funds go to seminaries, which are youth services. Then there are temples and churches etc. Go to a Mormon Church and then tell me of their "corruption" .

[Doliath]

Ignoring the fact that these "retired" general authorities are on the board of directors of various LDS-owned companies... As was mentioned in this segment of the video, most of the $6 Billion/year income is spent on acquiring more material assets, while the tiniest fraction is spent on humanitarian assistance. It is corruption because the focus is upon material wealth, not helping those in need.

[corneliusgoldlover]

The Church does own investments to expand itself. You should ask members how they feel. I pay my tithing always and do not feel robbed at all! I actually see my tithing funds working. I don't know what you believe in but if it is the Bible, look at Malachi 3:8. I understand how atheists or people who just don't like attending church think ALL of it is a scam but maybe just maybe truth exists out there. God exists or He does not. It is very hard, in fact impossible, for Him not to.

[corneliusgoldlover]

Also, the 6 billion a year income is not spent just on acquiring more assets. This is incorrect. All tithing money is used to benefit members of the Church which it does via churches, temples, various programs, scouting, young men and women programs, seminary, canneries, farming and more. See, my parents divorced in 2004 and I live with my mom who struggles financially. The ONLY reason why we have a home is because of the LDS Church. The ONLY reason. They help their members more than you know.

[Doliath]

It'd sure be nice if the LDS Church proved your claims by releasing their financial records...

[almax84]

i'm an ex mormon but i don't like what the lady says around minute 2:30 because, and maybe that is the worst part, mormons don't know they are deceiving and lying, they actually believe they are doing the right thing.

[corneliusgoldlover]

Seriously. They are so deceived as they give their time, service, and money to provide people with food and shelter. They are so deceived when they spend countless hours helping those after natural disasters; usually first to arrive. They are so deceived when they ACTUALLY stand up for what they believe in and try ever so hard to abstain from worldly things. They are so deceived when they invite all to come unto Jesus Christ who truly suffered for ALL people whether you believe in Him or not.

[corneliusgoldlover]

I do agree, typical, of this lady to try and convince her little pea brain that surely her Christ isn't the same as the Mormons "Christ"! OMW! He said clearly in previous videos that the LDS Church is CENTERED ON CHRIST. "Christians" will say that they believe in the Savior and blah blah blah. The Mormons say the same things but we can't be Christians! Comical, peoples understanding and beliefs are. If I didn't believe in Christ and some "Christian" tried to explain the Trinity; head=explosion.

[almax84]

even a satanist could be the first to help in case of a natural disaster, i don't see how that is a point to your credit. don't show off. second of all, prove how you guys are the first to show up, because generally government run agencies are the fist to move, do you have any proofs to back you up on how you ARE THE FIRST to show up?

[corneliusgoldlover]

Satanist?! What?! Oh FEMA! Right. So organized at helping. We are world-wide and missionaries were some of the first to help with the flooding in the Philippines. That's 1. Oh wait! Here it is. You want the link too? "When Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans, the fourth largest Christian denomination in the United States was among the first to

arrive with assistance... Wearing yellow T-shirts, members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints had come to New Orleans...".

[almax84]

therefore do us a big favour, and do what all mormons do when they talk to englightned people who got out of the church: say that you love us although we lost the path, say that jesus died for us, say that all our relatives wet the pillow at night praying for us, say that the lord is mercyful and loves us (you do love to stress the concept) and go along your path and leave us enlightned people alone

[corneliusgoldlover]

I'm not going to say any of that. You are a man, or woman, and make your own choices. You have your own problems and own life. I hope whatever path you take goes well. I don't wish bad things upon people. Just don't state fallacy as fact. The Church, for a fact, utilizes all of its tithing and fast offering funds for the benefit of its members first and then the community second. In times of great need, these people are put in the forefront. How would a church operate with 0 contributions?

[almax84]

plus mormonism is the only religion i know of that requires a monthly payment of membership: if you don't pay membership to the club you can't have callings, you can't go to temple etc...the message is: GIVE YOUR MONEY TO US. if you are a rich dude that's fine, if you are a regular family that is also fine, but doing this to extremely poor people tsk tsk, bad bad mormons!!!

[corneliusgoldlover]

They also help the poor. The only reason why my mom has a house is because of the LDS Church. The ONLY reason. Yes please, give us your money so we can pay... so we can pay... well who do we pay in the Mormon Church? The Prophet and Apostles? Nope. Tell me alma, who is this money going to. The members of the Church. Temples, churches, seminary, farms, welfare, canneries, missionary program, Perpetual Education and more! You just got offended somewhere along the line and make things up.

[tkoch25]

You realize that they are two different Christs right? The Christ of Christianity is God incarnate. In LDS they are two completely different beings. That's why Mormons aren't and never will be considered Christians.

[dasani7998]

@tkoch25 what! then why did jesus pray to god before he die why would god prey to myself jesus and god two different beings common sense. its like saying god prays to him self self worship!

[tkoch25]

@dasani7998 You have to understand that Jesus was both 100% man and 100% God. The man Christ prays to God. It's not self worship in anyway.

[dasani7998]

@tkoch25 I am sorry but that in it self sounds retarded and you sorta just said my point you can be a man and god at the same time. So jesus was a demi god ? Like the gods of the greeks I love it.

[tkoch25]

@dasani7998 No he wasn't a demi-god because they were PART man and PART god. There is a big difference.

[dasani7998]

@tkoch25 mary was a woman an god is god

demi-god. Mary was I MORTAL GOD ISNT DUMB ASS

[tkoch25]

@dasani7998 Yes, Mary was mortal, but Jesus was not conceived by man. He entered the world through Mary, but since he was conceived by man. Therefore, he is 100% God, and 100% man. It is not easy to explain, and I apologize for my very bad explanation, but Jesus is not a demi-god. And please don't curse at me. It ruins a very good conversation.

[ctwright82]

Bitter view. This is NOT a neutral position on mormonism. One non-Mormon scholar who writes a good objective view is Douglas J. Davies. READ his book "An Introduction to Mormonism".

[BYU4U]

You didn't resign. You got excommunicated.

Church donations will never be enough for people that don't like the Church. Fact is that donations are significant when compared to other organizations other than the US government.

I wonder where he gets his statistics. 20% closet doubters. From where did that figure come?

[BYU4U]

Mormonism doesn't teach that you would go to Outer Darkness. That's reserved for people like the prophet and apostles and possibly the General Authorities that KNOW that it's the truth. Not for just any ordinary member like you.

Prime example of why you don't have someone that isn't LDS teach non-LDS about the LDS Chruch.

[fubecaman]

give me a break. there is a plethora of active lds members who not only dont fully understand the doctrine on outer darkness but a myriad of other doctrines, both straight-forward and obscure

[lnielsen76]

Jesus is God of the Old Testament, Jehovah, incarnate.

Mormonism was a name given the LDS faith by its detractors. They allow the name but insist that they are Christian.

The sifting of the wheat from the tares is definitely taking place within the Church. A sign of the times. Question is who are the tares and who are the wheat? Those who remain LDS or those who fall away?

BYU Library is full of anti-Mormon literature for research. Lyndon blames his years of negligence on the Church.

[9FootFiveWt]

Funny how he was excommunicated rather than leaving...Obviously he is bitter against the Church...there is no question that the Church won't answer.

[sAME2U22]

It was simply my response to the LDSs' EQUALLY fallacious argument that because LDS is the "fastest growing religion" (a fallacy by itself) is somehow proof the church is true.

[sAME2U22]

How many Mormons does it take to change a light bulb. Two. One to change the bulb and one to deny that the bulb had been changed.

[sAME2U22]

Yep. You are right, hive, and the 6.5 BILLION others in the world (who are ALSO God's children, who is no respector of persons, are wrong. Makes sense to me....Bwwahhahahah!!! Funny man!

[HiveRadical]

I seek accuracy with conciseness.

And I see no connection between your assertion and your question. Perchance you could elaborate on how you see the two as connected.

[HiveRadical]

The irony of your initial critique for my inadvertently flipping one of his quotes when contrasted to "uninspired businessmen giving edicts on proper appearance."

I think I may well be perceiving a different General Conference than what you are, because the one I watch is not a bunch of businessmen giving edicts on proper appearance. The vanity of appearance is rather the last thing I hear emphasized-unless the contents of character pass as mere 'appearance' to you

"Out of the mouths of babes"

[HiveRadical]

don't want to flip that one around, that would actually effect the meaning--

"no more. go and sin"

[HiveRadical]

And apologies for switching the quote around.

[HiveRadical]

Prophecy dictates good PR, a God who cannot communicate better than a corporation is weak God indeed.

"And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

 To them that are without law, as without law... that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some"

[hahndav]

I am curious Hive, What is your favorite of the many prophecies that the late Hinckley revealed to his people?

[HiveRadical]

That there would be a "second harvest" of converts in Sweden and Scandinavia as a whole that would rival the first. That's saying something to predict significant conversions to a conservative religious sect in some of the most secular, 'progressive' and liberal countries in existence.

This stands out to me as about 3/4 of my heritage comes through Scandinavia at some point.

[HiveRadical]

Nibley doesn't attack the leadership, he attacks the weaknesses in the leadership of all institutions. Truth is the refining fire.

Mormonism IS prophecy.

"I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations."

"...for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

[jeffrrs]

The woman on the video shows extreme signs of bigotry. The move to change the PR was made by Gordon B Hinckley and it was no secret or deceit, it was to show what we really are about to the whole world so that their is no question. And don't worry this church will roll forward, it always has and always will.

[freeurmind2]

blah, blah, bigotry. It's bigotry when your cult is criticized, but when you claim yours is the only true "church" (snicker) on the face of the earth, it's "twooth"?

[HiveRadical]

Mass apostasy has never be a foreign element where truth is concerned. Masses left Christ. Masses left Joseph several times. Mass apostasy will happen, it's prophesied too happen. The kingdom will survive and soon thereafter thrive.

[ElderJoseph]

HiveR You are mistaking apostasy for finding out real truth .JW's use apostasy in the same way as you do.

What other excuse can you both give when a member finds out he's been decieved.

It's your way to explain away the fact that another member has seen through the whole deception.

[HiveRadical]

It's still funny to see you continue under a moniker named after someone you say you see as being in the same error as Hitler.

Cognitive dissonance can be claimed by you against me and by me against you. At least one of us has made a horrible mistake. You will call it deception

[HiveRadical]

because your whole paradigm demands you do that and you can claim the same about myself. But when we get to point by points you cannot prove your stance any more than I can. But I can, and do, maintain the plausible nature of my beliefs.

[hahndav]

Hive, how much does the church pay you?

[HiveRadical]

Everything I have is because of God's grace. But there's no organization, not the Church, not ANYTHING or ANYONE that compensates me for my efforts here on YouTube or on the internet.

[hahndav]

God's grace? How does that work? Do your possessions "magically" materialize before your eyes? Food appears on your magic table? No I did not think so. For every gain you have there is a loss somewhere else. Are we not all each other's "God's grace"? Santa still brings you presents.

[HiveRadical]

"The lunch is free, but work we must"

--Hugh Nibley

All we have comes through various conduits, but the ultimate providence of it all is Divine Providence.

[hahndav]

but the ultimate providence of it all is Divine Providence. Well unless the receiver perceives it as bad then it is from evil/Satan! right? Now really when did we stop thinking for ourselves?

[HiveRadical]

Satan ultimately provides nothing and creates nothing. Ultimately nothing is 'from' Satan, those things are merely perverted, distorted, misdirected and corrupt. All things created, in their true state, are good, unless they have agency and have, of themselves, chosen contrary to the good of their initial creation.

[hahndav]

So what you are saying is evil is within all creations?

Something perfect cannot act imperfectly.

I guess Satan is unemployed?

[HiveRadical]

No. I'm not saying evil is within all creations. I'm saying that those creations made to act for themselves can, through the virtue of agency, elect death and corruption.

If this were not so all good and evil could only ever be attributed to God. And if evil was ever justly attributed to a being identified as 'god' then it would be an error, because God would cease to be God if he authored any evil.