Khan Academy and the Effectiveness of Science Videos

[Infinitiely]

Agreed! 

[Proxius1]

I personally use Khan academy for reviewing subjects I learned in school.

I use Veritasium, Minute Physics, and Sixty Symbols purely for entertainment. The information presented in the latter shows does not present the level of information required tackle textbook problems. However, they are more fun to watch. I don't watch Khan on my free time, but when I have to do some partial fraction expansions for inverse Laplace transforms, Khan is where I go to review. You can't compare the two.

[cssftw100]

@1veritasium - did you have any sort of bacckground in psychology before ur phd?

[cssftw100]

The beauty of khan academy is that you can rewatch the videos as many times as you want.

[eugenetswong]

Fascinating. I almost didn't bother watching this video. I'm so glad that I did.

Anyhow, I wonder how effective this is in teaching English as a second language. The principles are the same, but it's hard to get people to guess ahead of time, I think. With English, it would be more a guessing game for ESL students, whereas, with science, you can use logic.

I also wonder how effective it would be at bringing about social change.

[96EpicFailMuch]

What if you were to engage yourself in the khan videos by writing down valid points through out the video? Thats what i acually do while learning from khan and even you, i note down what i have to gain from the videos.

[fcoalvaradov]

I like a lot your videos!!! but what people comment also is true, you need to learn the concept or topic of the video before watching this video to fully understand it :D

[LRFLEW]

After watching this, one thing comes to mind: The Socratic Meathod

[jrkirby93]

When I watch your videos, especially about ones on basic newtonian mechanics, I feel like "How are people so misinformed? Like really? This is obvious, but people are so stupid!"

But maybe your videos are really useful to most people.

[cynthiacalgaro]

Learning requires learner effort. Your video is great because it demonstrates the importance of teacher approach. But it's also important to show students how their habits of mind lead to reinforcing misconceptions. It'd be great if we could show students how they often dig these holes for themselves and help them avoid it.

[cynthiacalgaro]

Showing learners the difficulty that teachers have with overcoming student misconceptions helps them become better learners. It's certainly about the way that we approach subjects-- we try to make it easy and efficient... We avoid making students feel uncomfortable... We cringe at "This is confusing!" But working through confusion is a vital part of the learning process...

[Alphxomega]

Luckily here in the UK we have QI which is a popular show that often debunks common misconceptions.

[camolo24]

very interesting, was this a previously thought of hypothesis?

Who knew "confusing" was good for learning

[sharrynuk]

This is fantastic. I've watched your other videos, and I used to think that all the "wrong" answers from the people you interviewed was a little embarrassing, like the "Jaywalking" or "Talking to Americans" segments on TV that mock people's ignorance. Now I realize the value of the wrong answers. It's like Alan Davies on the show QI, who deliberately guesses the wrong answer so Steven Fry can explain why the common belief is wrong.

[CogitoErgoCogitoSum]

I have made similar observations. Humans are TOO educated. We know just enough, have the cognitive "skills" (power of delusion), to rationalize what we want to believe; too stupid to have it right.

[CogitoErgoCogitoSum]

Its called bull-headedness, arrogance, bigotry, egocentrism

[piwithatsme]

I think i just died and went to heaven

[sampinchies]

This is really good... you should do a TED talk on your PhD!

[1veritasium]

@sampinchies I've been trying. I need someone to nominate me for TEDxSydney for a start!

[masterineverything]

I see that as a proof that there is always a flaw in analogy, however in khan academy they teach the science with a precise formalism such as mathmatical formulas. If the students could apply instead of pure intuition a formula or an intuition based on the formulas given, the misconceptions will be easily revealed to themselves, will it not?

[WonkoTheSane10]

This video was clear, concise, and easy to understand

[fmakofmako]

This is an interesting video, does that indicate that in general you can improve learning when you understand false statements similar to the truth as well as the truth? How does textbook learning compare with learning from videos? And does this inform teachers or tutors of a better way to teach material? Thank you for sharing, I wonder if my surprise that clear, concise modes of information may not be as informative as confusing information will help me remember this. Is surprise the key?

[learningscienceisfun]

I like that your videos challenge "learner's" misconceptions and provide them with "oppurtunites" to retrain brains & relearn the information. Like yourself, I try help students through various medium like inquiry-based lessons and music, but we must always remember that learners need hands-on, authentic experiences and adequate time to work with, and dispel, misconceptions which they already have. Your videos, my videos, & Khan's videos are only ONE source of info for the 21st century learner.

[dashingstag]

Valid arguements. Important to note that different people learn things differently through different mediums. Best way to know for sure is feedback I guess.

[dustinmorning]

There's a whole lot of people who arent able to absorb information effectively... Teaching some people take lots and lots of repetition. A video will never reach these people.

[deleteable]

I watch your videos every week and enjoy them greatly. I agree that most people do not take much new information in and never really question what they already think. I do constantly, and for some reason it surprises me when others don't. Possibly to do with my interest in leaning information, I question everything and never accept theory as fact.

Keep up the great videos!

Thanks for making the world a smarter place!

[VenueVideoUK]

I watch your videos with my 8 year old daughter along with other science channels and I just want to say thanks for helping me to explain things more coherently than I can.

She doesn't take it all in but I know over time and when it comes to learning it at school she will be more prepared and better understand what she is being taught (and hopefully challenge the teacher when needed)

Thanks once again :)

[blaticavenue]

This is amazing. I have also found that when I watch the Khan Academy videos I don't retain much of the new information being presented to me, at least with only the easy stuff, and not the hard(?) If that makes sense. I also agree that the videos should question our misconceptions. I would finish my thoughts but Im too sleepy.

[CallMeIshmael999]

I think that Khan academy is great for review of concepts already covered, and in areas where science and math education is completely unavailable, it's certainly better than going without education entirely. But you make a really good case not to use it as primary educational material if there is an alternative.

[michaelbrules]

i think it is brillaint that you point out the misconceptions cuz i do find myself that i can have the same ones, and it really does make you think and by having them at the start it makes the videos more of a problem solving objective and it makes the videos more practical. its a bit like maths where you are thaught how to do something new then you do a question

[ThegreatawesomeJason]

26 people is not reliable

[SillyEddyPhotography]

Khan Academy is great when you have a textbook problem in front of you, or you're running the online-classroom. Other tutorials (by everyone) kind of fade away quite quickly without application. A huge part of learning is by doing!

On the point of misconceptions, my friend believed that astronauts have no weight and that they float... It took me ages to dumb it down and just explain that they're falling and have no relative acceleration to their surroundings. Damn misconceptions!

[TheMrSteinway]

veritasium is amazing

[anniejillybean]

I once attended a seminar on teaching engineering students and the same thing was said about lectures. They found that interspersing a lecture with mini quizzes that asked "why" and "how" questions instead of "what" questions more effective than simply lecturing. The questions were multiple choice and the students were equipped with a clicker. I imagine that's a little keypad where you can click in your answer so the instructor gets instant feedback on whether or not he/she was understood.

[DThorn619]

This site has saved me so many times in my AP Classes.

[shananagans5]

I totally agree with you. Often, It's harder to unlearn a misconception than it is to learn. I also find it funny & tragic at the same time that most of us go through college when we are at that age where we think we already know it all.

[patbigos]

You should contact Khan Academy and see if you could make science videos for them

[michgohh]

a very good video. thanks

[unluckylion]

Thats very interesting = ) I love your concept. Especially if you ask people on the street, you as a viever can, work wit them together to the right solution! This really helps and it gets instantly stored in your head if I learned something new this way. Keep up the good work

[LsBaba]

I'm new to the Khan Academy videos and am a parent of a 14 year old. The TED talk given by Khan in 2011 goes into detail on the metrics available to teachers and the fact that self testing / teacher-assisted learning is built into Khan Academy's method. While simply showing the correct facts may not be the most effective way to dispel misconceptions, there may be a range of misconceptions, so the correct facts and follow-up teacher assisted learning may be the best approach.

[MioMiomecairo]

I probably don't have the right to say this, but i think you really deserve your PhD, I claim that i already believed that science videos doesn't do it, but this is the first time I know why :) Thanks a lot.

[Ajihood]

Really good discussion. I know for one that watching videos in certain environments also limit my ability to understand/remember them. Ie Watching in a lounge room with distractions or a library with peace and quiet.

[MrDavidium]

If someone was interested in reading the study, would it be possible? I'm really curious now.

[TheMothew]

Now I think back, all my best science teachers were able to discuss misconceptions and explain what's really going on in that context - coaxing you into challenging your own understanding. It's only when you've reach that understanding yourself that you feel it in your bones, and it becomes part of your universe. I really enjoy that aspect of the veritasium videos. Did you see minutephysics' hour physics video? - similar thoughts and ideas.

[mutafaca]

I knew this.. (haha just kidding)

From what I understand is, our minds need to be challenged for information that it already knew because it most likely misconceptions

[bekaltman]

I'd think that a student specifically looking for math/science explanation videos on youtube would have more interest and pay more attention than a student participating in a study...I don't quite think you can generalize your findings to whether or not explanation videos work at all/

[1veritasium]

@bekaltman perhaps. The students in the study were enrolled in first year physics (which have this material in the curriculum) and they were awarded a mark for watching the video. In that way the study was about as authentic is you could make it.

[MrSyzygyG]

@1veritasium If the students got the marks just for watching, it doesn't guarantee that they'll listen too.

[1veritasium]

@MrSyzygyG agreed, but this was consistent across the treatments. So whether they listen or not is a variable influenced only by the particular presentation they viewed.

[BullShitThat]

@1veritasium Part#1 Then I propose you conduct a second test, only this time the students don’t just get the marks for watching the video. I suspect that this will give an additional incentive to listen more carefully to the videos, thereby enabling the usage of more mental effort while watching a video. I imagine the majority of students watching videos like khan academy, are watching to get certain marks in that subject area, and not just because they enjoy watching these kinds of videos. ...

[BullShitThat]

@1veritasium Part#2 .... If the results of the second study are the same as the first, it would validate the finding of the first. And would prove that the variable of how much one listens, only varies with the particular content being viewed by that individual.

[tumblrprince]

what was the answer?

[PBDPBD]

Brilliant! that confirms everything I thought I already knew, I am now much more confident that it's true :)

[DimitrisMPapadakis]

WOW, cool and fascinating! I did a PhD study on Albert Bandura's sodio-congitive learning methods with a focus on being implemented on using YouTube videos for behavioral conditioning and learning. send me a PM... I thought YouTube was dead. interesting stuff man.

[BabyScientists]

This was great! I look forward to seeing more of your other videos. My wife and I are always looking for better ways to teach. We started the Baby Scientists Channel as a fun family project to learn together with our kids. This whole idea of directly addressing common misconceptions makes wonderful sense. I guess I did a little bit of that in our Fruit Punch Siphoning video, but not nearly as well as we could be doing it. Thanks! 

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[watisthis99]

Is this any way related to the term 'hind-sight bias'?

[victoneter]

In my math class we are all required to have an account on Khan academy, it's really helpful and it's in cooperation with our schoolbooks, I don't even live in an English speaking country but we are still using it in our school systems.

[t3tsuyaguy1]

This excites me a little bit. I have learned far more in life, from having my ideas challenged, then from having them affirmed. Indeed, I think we could define teaching as: challenging the perceptions of the student.

At some point I began proactively challenging my own notions. I think your ideas might do this for people. I remember my most effective teachers applying similar, if less developed, constructs.

[uceid]

I think the interest in the subject greatly affect our degree of attention which then affect our chances of remembering anything from a source. I assume it is easier to get all the attention from someone while doing live experiments but once someone is captivated by something, when it really matters for them, the way a problem is presented has less importance. School is a great example where we try to teach EVERYONE a bit of EVERYTHING. Pretty hard to captivate everyone on everything.

[hungryhippo2]

I would suggest there is also a notable force from the air working against the direction of the ball (even if it is weaker than gravity). And even if the force of gravity pointing down is close to constant, it will be slighty stronger when the ball is closer to earth (even if this is a very small difference). I hope people didn't fail using this as an argument of the force of gravity decreasing as the ball moves up.

[CuteKyrgyz]

1veritasium, your channel is one of the best on YT!

[toogle1234]

This presented some interesting findings, and I like that you used your results when editing this video together. It does seem suspect, however, that you do focus only on the science videos. Although it is unlikely to be your intention, you are using a bit of a strawman by not applying your test to the videos on mathematics, or even khan's videos. If you did that ( test the effectiveness of each of the subjects khan covers using his own videos and not yours) and you still get the same trend the

[1veritasium]

@toogle1234 agreed, it would be valuable to do some studies like these using the Khan Videos (they were not available to me while I was doing my PhD, nor was it my intention to test KA videos, only to understand how to make better educational science videos).

[DunkRyan]

@toogle1234 It's not really a strawman... he's not saying, "Kahn Academy is useless". He's saying that in his study, students who watched science videos that don't address misconceptions failed to make significant improvements on a related concept test. Then he generalizes that result by suggesting that since the Kahn Academy science videos do not address misconceptions, they may not be as useful as expected for novice viewers. You're overgeneralizing his results, I think.

[frostyandy2k]

I think we will still need to further invest research in all of this

[JiuJitsuDC]

This is an excellent video and I am so happy to have stumbled upon this series of videos.

[PackOwolflets]

Who, Shau Khan? The guy from Mortal Kombat?

[cristianfcao]

The title of this video should be: Why I include people's common misconceptions in all my videos! There's a LOT to say about the KA and not including misconceptions in Sal's videos (even if it has an effect on learning, which seems reasonable) is not among the most important. Also, I don't get the comparison with what you do here.

I just commented about the intros of your videos and now I understand why you include them!. However, I still think that they take too much time of your videos! :(

[SimaanFreeloader]

I'm sorry to say, but you just seem like a cock when you keep wading around in people's misconceptions. No interesting science is obvious to anybody before it has been explained. I mean Aristotle wasn't an idiot, he was probably one of the smartest people in ancient Greece, still he got 8th grade physics wrong, because it just isn't obvious. So instead going around seeming being a science cock to the public, how about you ascribe the misconceptions to yourself, before you started studying.

[1veritasium]

@SimaanFreeloader Thanks for your comment. I think it expresses an important misconception about my work. I discuss misconceptions NOT because I think science is obvious or that people are unintelligent. I discuss misconceptions because research shows it is essential for learning. Yes I held many misconceptions myself and those are the ones I most enjoy helping others overcome. When you misinterpret someone's intentions and engage in name calling, I'm sorry to say, it makes you seem like a cock.

[SimaanFreeloader]

@1veritasium I appreciate the high spirit you take criticism with. On the subject of intentions, I would just like to point out that appearances may sometimes be as important as intentions. You may just want to share your love for old movies actors and Indian culture with the sons of Jacob when you display your swastika and toothbrush mustache in front of a synagogue, but it may not be perceived that way.... Anyways not everyone want to taught by someone appearing like a infallible know-it-all.

[dkwroot]

Khan's videos aren't exactly 'videos' as much as they're just his voice placed against a black screen. I really think that's one of the reasons he's so good at educating. Khan's videos don't have any distractions, it's just the students, the work and Khan's voice. Have you tried experimenting with videos similar to Khan Academy, ones with no actors and no distractions? Ones that have information written down for reference?

[test123ok]

I didn't think of this, but it absolutely makes sense. Great discovery BTW.

[shananagans5]

Ah ha, soft science meets hard science. A misconception is like inertia. An outside force must act on it before it can be changed.

[Heyprinny]

Well shit. I thought England was smarter than America! DAMMIT!

[mydiningroom]

I haven't read through all the comments but I'm curious if a similar pretest/video/post test was conducted on people who had NO background in a particular subject. Was learning effected when there was no prior knowledge?

[1veritasium]

@mydiningroom one of the groups did have roughly zero prior knowledge (as little as you can have of moving/accelerating objects as an 18 year-old) but I guess this did include some grade 10 science. Tough to find someone who hasn't at least heard of Newton's laws.

[HiAdrian]

Do people, who don't figure out the sun-earth thing on their own, really need science education? Do you think it will add anything measurable to their adult lives, as opposed to other skills/knowledge they could acquire?

I think most school systems are too heavy on the general education. It seems to me, the human body/mind doesn't respond to non-individual education sufficiently.

I think tools like Khan Academy, combined with the "lesson at home, homework at school" approach, beats current sys

[MarisolIreneable]

I used Khan academy is review for the Chem AP test. I haven't looked at my scores yet, but it helped me on a placement exam I took recently. But I agree, on subjects my class teacher didn't go over (which was a lot) I didn't retain much of what I saw on the Khan videos.

[micheldvorsky]

I think you've made a valid complaint: passively watching science videos can ingrain erroneous ideas and give some students unwarranted confidence. To truly master a concept, you have to study it, practice it, and test your understanding it. I imagine that when a student is engaging with the material in a serious way (studying, doing practice problems) Khan's videos can be incredibly useful. Khan is absolutely brilliant in my opinion, but the student obviously has to put in some effort too!

[Swin0]

I can tell you one thing Mr. Khan is doing right that I saw the opposite of here. Blackboard only, no people. I just saw less than 30 seconds of a clip with a woman and a guy and physics was only VAGUELY on my mind. Instead I was thinking of the attractiveness of the individuals, the peculiarities of accents, whether I could juggle better than that guy, and whether he was a better juggler reality than he -appeared- to be. I think you're underestimating this aspect.

[wifiaccount1]

@Swin0 Being distracted by looks and accents is your problem. On the opposite end of the spectrum, it's possible that people will be bored by "blackboard only". It could feel impersonal.

[Swin0]

@wifiaccount1 Ah it's the potential learner's problem, let's just hand out clay cuneiform tablets and leave our efforts to improve education at that. ;p Could feel impersonal. I get the opposite experience. But really opinions (like mine) mean nothing, I hereby formally yield to study, this thing will get figured out. :)

[NeomegaX]

You made excellent points regarding the use of videos to teach science, but I think that Khan Academy goes far beyond that. In order to proceed in the learning curriculum, you have to actually be able to solve 10 problems in a row, thus ensuring that you truly understand the rational behind the solving before moving on to more complex concepts built on simpler ones. To me, this is the spark of revolution behind Khan Academy, not the videos (which are great nonetheless). I reject your critique!

[ThanassisBoulis]

@1veritasium I read a very interesting article just now and I remembered your video. Google "Cognitive theft in mathematics teaching"  and you'll get it as the first hit. The guy there also mentions the effect of Khan's videos in mathematics too. It is in essence a similar message to yours, but for this case one does not need to employ the argument of "preexisting false physical models". It is just effort and learning at its most basic.

[jeffstanger]

Thanks Derek. This is a great demonstration of the need to make students wrestle with concepts when faced with failure of their own predictions against observation. They need to really think, discuss and explain the situation. Only then can they move on from their preconceptions. I often have to tell my students that the struggle is the most important part of the learning process. Your findings have made me more convinced of this idea. Cheers, Jeff

[MrSaint3]

I'd love to read your dissertation!

[1veritasium]

@MrSaint3 you can download it from veritasium com in the links section

[plllll0]

i have to agree with your points, although a one size fits all solution seems unlikely

[BTCInstrumentation]

This is absolutely fantastic. One of the "truths" of education -- which sounds at first blush like dismissal or disrespect -- is that students are very poor judges of their own learning. Instead, students readily perceive (and judge) their educational experiences by the amount of effort they must invest, where little effort is good and much effort is bad. This debilitating belief profoundly handicaps learning. 

[PlutonGB]

send this to khan!

[wkriski]

I think we can generalize this to most instructional videos that people passively watch. The exercises (practical application) are where students usually find out they have some misconceptions.

There's an incredibly popular and now deceased jazz guitar teacher with videos demonstrating various ideas, but it's mostly passive watching and people can't usually make use of them (of course this is anecdotal). I think people like the idea of the lessons more than their actual usefulness.

[LunchAnderson]

Discussing misconceptions is something I've always found extremely valuable. I know that Khan does this in some of his videos, but I've only watched a small fraction of them so far. 

[ThanassisBoulis]

Very nice video, looking into some core ideas about learning! I'd love to hear an extended talk on the matter. Have you presented your PhD yet, or will you give another talk soon? As I was watching the basketball clip, I realized.... "Hey I play in THIS court!!" Not sure if you play basketball often, but I might see you there sometime. :) Thanassis

[wickydwun]

You certainly have raised a very valid argument in this video. Have you attempted to contact Salman Khan personally to discuss this finding with him? With your findings incorporated into his style of teaching, it could only make the Khan Academy a better resource for all.

[dcontard]

I haven't seen all of Khan's videos, but I can say that some of them do include this technique. Introduction to Evolution and Natural Selection is one example. I can't say for sure that this is premeditated and I'm not sure if is present in all the lessons explaining usually misconceived concepts. If is not the case, a great idea would be to re-edit said videos using this technique.

[RAWtiercel]

D; downwards and decreasing. The force of gravity is proportional to the inverse square of the distance between the objects and the basketball is moving upwards.

[RAWtiercel]

D: downwards and decreasing. Lazy people would be tempted to approximate the force of gravity as constant, but as we all know the force of gravity is a function of the inverse square of the distance between objects, and the basketball is still travelling upwards. Therefore the force of gravity is decreasing as it gets further away from the planet.

[psycapy]

@1veritasium Hit it on the head for me, thanks! Thanks for all the other answers too.

[dwees2]

These issues do not just happen in Science education, they are fundamental to the way we construct our understanding of the world.

This particular problem happens constantly in politics. Politicians hear your complaints as support for the policy you are complaining about all the time...

[gvanderleun]

Boot camp them. The first thing to teach them is that they don't know s__t. They have to accept that before you can teach them things worth knowing.

[psycapy]

I chose E (tangent to the path), because I was considering lateral motion too. Why was this a mistake? I understand that the force ACTING on the ball is downward and constant, but the question is phrased "What is the force of the ball?" What would the tangent line of the ball on it's path represent? I'm confused, so I must have learned something! :)

[Techra]

@psycapy remember that "an object in motion stays in motion unless acted upon..." if you ignore the y axis, then the ball would appear to be traveling along the x axis at a constant speed. the ball only changed horizontal speed when it was initially being thrown in the air. after that, its horizontal speed is constant and there is no force acting on it in the horizontal axis. the reason the ball follows a parabola is only because there is a vertical force acting on it, which is of course gravity

[1veritasium]

@psycapy Confusion is a good start! The tangent of the ball represents the ball's velocity.

[dendari]

@psycapy Let me ask you this: How can the person still be applying force to the ball when he isn't touching it anymore?

Does that help?

[jopsakka]

i taks abot e yeahr

[ktarnas]

What is interesting about this is how it shows once again that science education in particular needs careful attention from teachers as people have lived in the natural world all of their lives and tend to have made deep and somewhat unconscious sense of how the world works in relation to their experiences and practical, logistical needs, such as throwing paper in the trash can. The actually explanation, even when observable, can be counter intuitive. Yet these misconceptions are powerful!

[Techra]

have you even seen any of Sal's videos? 1) take a look at his introductory videos on chemistry, where he stresses constantly that electrons have quantum mechanical orbitals and not classical Bohr orbits. 2) Sal understands his material, including the things that can be tricky, and knows how to explain it. 3) your conclusion is a non sequitur. it could be that... oh, i dunno... all those videos the students were shown were just as terrible as those examples

[1veritasium]

@Techra Thanks for the comment! 0) Yes I did study the videos before I made the post 1) misconceptions about electrons are not deeply ingrained because we don't experience them directly but I know Khan is good about pointing out these things 2) Sal is incredibly knowledgeable and a great explainer 3) students did learn from second example despite its shortcomings

[MarvelsofaLifetime]

@1veritasium It seemed to me in this video, you put too much emphasis on the importance of integrating refutations/challenges of people’s misconceptions … and by too much, I am of course referring to your comment about how for people new to science, the Khan Academy might not be that useful because it doesn’t “really” challenge their misconceptions. About a year and a half ago, I was completely new to science, and by virtue of persistently using the Khan Academy, I flat out mastered science.

[1veritasium]

@MarvelsofaLifetime First, congrats on mastering science! Second, I believe your anecdote but I consider it the exception rather than the rule. It's like saying 'grandma smoked a pack a day til she was 90 so smoking is not bad for you.' Well it's not that bad but I hope you take my point - there is a difference between 'what worked for me' and what worked on average for hundreds of students.

[empbac]

@1veritasium

Yes - I believe that's called confirmation bias. When it comes to science, leave personal anecdotes out of it. You have the right approach.

[fnoschese]

You can find Derek Muller's (aka Veritasium) PhD thesis and academic research and references which led to the creation of this video here:

bit [dot] ly [slash] KhanEffectiveness

And here:

bit [dot] ly [slash] MullerPseudo

[nactan]

@fnoschese Thanks. I hope Khan Academy incorporates this research as long as it doesn't lead them to adopt spectacular or elaborate sideshow tricks that detract from the source material. That's fine in diluted, entry-level videos for casual viewers, but I think one of the reasons Sal's material works is because they are stripped down to bare essentials: a blackboard and his voice. We, the internet generation, can really appreciate that kind of no bullshit approach as an aid to concentration.

[fnoschese]

@nactan 100% agree. 

[nactan]

@fnoschese Note that by "incorporate", I meant seriously consider these findings as indicative of potential pitfalls. They're allowed to reject them where irrelevant, of course.

[nactan]

God I hate YouTube's character limit.

[nactan]

But I'm sure that last part's just me.

[nactan]

HOW the correct information is presented is a huge factor; formally/informally, blackboard/outdoors, ... All these affect on how information is absorbed. When I'm being shown an outdoors scene with people just standing around talking while the wind whips the mic, my brain goes into gossip mode. It feels like my friends are coaching me on something and I'm waiting for them to get to the part I don't understand.

[nactan]

As for the second video, my attention wavered halfway through the dialog TBH. Personally, I don't think the misconceptions idea should be instituted as THE central pedagogical technique. It's kinda boring and doesn't really explain the formalism in greater depth, but I'm sure it will help a lot of students to have a misconceptions video for each topic. All in all, I doubt Sal's approach will suffer from this difficulty but Khan Academy should make an effort to find out. Thanks for the heads up!

[nactan]

Unless that's understood, the student will have considerable difficulty solving formal problems based on this theoretical framework. So, just as students didn't make it through your tests until they correctly grasped the core concept, they won't make it through Sal's either. Also, when students are working through videos at their own pace, they're usually paying a good deal more attention.

[nactan]

The example video didn't look like an abstract, mathematical presentation of the science behind the question, unlike the Khan Academy material. The snippet shown had too much distracting bullshit and little clarification regarding the exact definitions of the technical terms being used. And that's a direct component of what this question, in particular, is testing, whether the student comprehends what is meant by "force" in this formal context.

[nactan]

No, I don't get it. How is a live lecture inherently better for most students, who don't ask questions and sit in class with minimal attention, than a YouTube video followed by a live tutoring session?

[fnoschese]

@nactan The best mode would be to get rid of lecture completely. Teaching is not telling. See what MIT did when Walter Lewin's awesome lectures didn't change failure rates for intro physics: bit(dot)ly/MITpseudoteaching

[nactan]

@fnoschese Well, I won't go into the flaws I perceive in Walter Lewin's methods. I'm not affiliated with Khan Academy nor am I an expert in education despite my loquaciousness. I will say, however, that different students have different needs and Sal's impersonal recordings appear to deliver results, unlike Walter Lewin's personal one-time extravaganzas. And speaking for no one but myself, I have difficulty internalizing concepts when people are staring at me with expectant looks on their faces.

[nactan]

@nactan (directly or not)

[fnoschese]

@nactan You're right -- different students have different needs. Khan's videos are definately helpful for many students, especially as a resource/reference/refresher. I worry, however, when people with money and influence, like Bill Gates, tout these videos as the sole part of the learning process.

[nactan]

@fnoschese Based on my own experience and that of many of my friends, I think Khan Academy has some very good ideas for improving public education, and that they should deploy their model as a small-scale, unbiased experiment to see whether or not it helps kids learn better. A lot of new teaching methods are popular because the "students" are there to see a show. Khan Academy is different. Research will show what research will show.

[nactan]

@nactan ("popular" meaning initially well received)

[MyOverflow]

@nactan

" . . . and that they should deploy their model as a small-scale, unbiased experiment . . . "

There's already a couple of classes in a Los Altos that's using this model for their mathematics, a 5th grade class and a 7th grade class. If I remember correctly, because of the progress of the two classes using his model, the school district might be switching to his model for all of their math classes. I do know that at his TED talk, Sal even commented about a 5th grader doing trigonometry.

[Zeyev]

I'll be sharing it with some science teachers - and other teachers. Thanks.

[JkSis27]

best video ever!!!!!!!!!!~~~~~~ it was clear concise and easy to understand so i like it!!!

...

or is it suppose to be confusing? lol

[godlikerefugee]

interesting

[ZipADeeeDoooDaaa]

Interesting Video. So, educational videos need some kind of "Dr. Watson", who represents the "stupid" reader/viewer, and a Sherlock Holmes that corrects him. I like that :)

[ddukki]

This is brilliant stuff. Great video!

[postnormal]

Interesting stuff! This is a major driver behind the Khan Academy having exercises which allow you to practice the ideas discussed in the videos. The videos and exercises form a feedback loop where students are able to take their misconceptions into the exercise, practice a number of times, realize that they don't have it quite right, and watch the video again. It's worth noting that we don't think that the videos alone are going to educate the masses. -Jason, Khan Academy Designer

[fnoschese]

@postnormal said: "....students are able to take their misconceptions into the exercise, practice a number of times, realize that they don't have it quite right, and watch the video again."

And that's the problem. If they didn't get it right after watching the video, watching the video again isn't necessarily going to help. There needs to be interaction and dialogue with the learner, something videos can't provide. At least the Veritasium videos try to simulate that dialogue.

[postnormal]

@fnoschese The core problem being identified, as I see it, is that the feedback loop usually ends after you "take the test" (a snapshot assessment) as it did in this study. And your critique would be true if our exercises were snapshot assessments. KA exercises and videos provide a continuous loop of assessment and instruction. That loop, which is further reinforced by a hint system in the exercises, produces very similar results in practice to the simulated conversations discussed here.

[1veritasium]

@postnormal I wonder if, with all the great stuff you're developing at Khan Academy, you could use pretest questions to 'diagnose' misconceptions and then show students exactly the kinds of discussions they should be having. Tutoring across the web has great potential and freeing up classroom time to deal with these conceptual hurdles is awesome. I think the trouble with traditional videos and quizzes is students can answer the questions correctly without changing their misconceptions

[nactan]

@fnoschese Yes they can, in the comments section under the video.

[fnoschese]

@nactan Are there people manning the comments to give replies? How much time does it take before a student's question is answered? The longer the feedback delay, the less effective it is.

[nactan]

@fnoschese Students usually explain stuff to each other and they're correct most of the time, but Sal used to intervene now and then. I don't know how the system works nowadays. Take a look at some of the likely looking topics on the website. (complex numbers, etc)

[nactan]

@fnoschese Videos can also be redone based on feedback, and Sal has done this several times.

[fnoschese]

@nactan Great. So, if video is going to be the medium of delivery, then he should incorporate some of Derek Muller's research into his vidoes.

[nactan]

@fnoschese Has anyone contacted Sal?

[nactan]

@fnoschese On top of that, the Khan Academy model is, I think, to practice problems in class after going through the video, exercises and other study materials at home. Isn't that the stage where face-to-face tutoring is absolutely essential rather than during the initial lecture?

[topikito]

I'm really glad I subscribed to your videos :)

[zebruh]

This i really, really important. You make some extremely valuable points.

(By the way, it's extremely troubling that Young Earth Creationists are claiming that dinosaurs and humans DID exist at the same time... further complicating things.)

[matikjn]

very interesting, thanks

[dwees2]

I'm sure you could apply this line of reasoning & logic to any type of learning at all, not just learning directed through the Khan Academy, or lecture. We need to clarify and challenge the misconceptions students have in all sorts of areas before we can really dig into some more correct explanations.

[CAMHIGHSCHOOL2]

This thinking can be applied to lecture as well.

[cheetmeister]

checking out the academy =)