I'm not a socialist. I just don't agree with the kind of capitalism the Republicans have run the last eight years. Makes me miss Reaganomics...which I'm sure, as a diehard old-school Republican, you miss too. Like Mitt misses it...like Thompson misses it...like Giuliani misses it...
Gee, does that mean you *do* like the sort of Barnie Frank capitalism that gave us Fannie Mae and $700 billion of fraud? I guess when Democrats fail us, it doesn't count.
Say, doesn't he live sort of near you? Are you voting for him?
You mean the Rick Davis Frannie and Freddie? The lobbyist Rick Davis who works as McCain's campaign manager. The same McCain who has no ties to lobbyists? Big question, Roger? Who was the chairman of the Banking Commission prior to Barney Frank taking over in Jan 2007? How many of the bad mortgages were written prior to Jan 2007? The whole "Barney Frank is to blame for the whole economy going into the shitter" is pretty lame. Just like blaming Bush alone for it. You're better than that!
Even before Barney took over as chairman, he and Chris Dodd were blocking every reform bill offered up. There were dozens of hearings on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and about 7 or 8 bills. All blocked by Democrats.
Ever watch the video of Barney insisting Fannie was safe? Or of Franklin Raines doing the same?
Come on, man. This is the Democrats' thing and you know it.
yes, two democrats took down America. If it wasn't such a FOX News talking point, maybe 'unbelievers' would take your side. There were plenty of regulations on the books. Somehow those in power felt like there was no need to enforce them because they were so concerned about reversing Roe, politicizing the DOJ so that they could suppress voters, invading countries to spend $1T. Ever seen the video of Bush in 2004 praising the 'ownership society'? Nice try Roger. You forget I watch your side.
About 40 hearings were conducted in the past dozen or so years on Fannie Mae. The fact is, this current financial "meltdown" was triggered by a single event: failure of Fannie Mae.
And Fannie Mae's failure was due to two main things: 1) Congress badgering banks into making "poor" loans and 2) Congress allowing FNMA to hide the books.
Additionally, Congress allowed mtg backed securities in unlimited quantities, so FNMA became a bad loan factory.
You might want to watch the hearings today with Greenspan, Cook, and Snow. So by Congress do you mean the Democrats in Congress? I seem to remember that the Republicans held congress and would have been in charge of those hearings...but I guess regulating Fannie and Freddie weren't part of the 'Contract on America". So are you saying NO Republicans share in the blame? If not...give me some names, iyho...
As you may know, simply having a majority in the House or Senate is not enough to establish legislative fiat. A minority can block legislation, which is the case here.
While a few Republicans have been involved, FNMA has been a Democrat safe haven nearly since its founding. Franklin Raines and Jamie Gorelick come to mind as board members who paid themselves millions from fraudulent accounting.
Barney Frank says he passed reform legislation, but it was not a reform at all.
I do know that about Congress. The DEMS did the same thing that the Republicans are doing now. The GAO says that Fannie and Freddie (Fa/Fr) account for less then 5% of subprime loans. 95% of the subprime loans were written outside of the regulations in place and bundled and sold as AAA securities. Some were sold back to Fa/Fr. Places like Lehman, Sacks, and ML made $Bs off of these loans and there are $67T in CDSs out there (AIG,etc) So who takes the blame for the risky loans outside F/Fr?
It was the failure of Fannie/Freddie that precipitated this, not Lehman or AIG.
But, the easy money from the Fed for 10 or 12 years set this up as a bubble. So, I see it as bad monetary policy plus politically sponsored greed and fraud.
Congress sets monetary policy and regulation, not the President.
This is not a failure of markets, but a failure of government. The Bush admin did not fail to enforce regulations, rather the regulations were set up to create this fraud.
Yes, Roger. I watch the news channels. It's all atwitter with the socialist claim. The voters will vote tomorrow and they will vote knowing he's a socialist. They will know because they heard it ring from the mountains. And maybe they will vote for the socialist. Maybe 50.5 will vote for the socialist and you will be stuck with a socialist. Just like we were stuck with the conservative Bush for 8 years. The complaint box is next to the door...right next to ours.
No, private subprime failed before Fannie and Freddie did.
You are right about the easy money, but dead wrong about monetary policy. You can thank Greenspan (a Republican) for that. And as far as Congress not regulating, why couldn't the Republicans do it like they cut taxes for the wealthy over the will of the Democratic minority.
Sorry. 6 Years of wall-to-wall Republican gov't = EPIC FAIL
Just like last time. I suppose gov't regulation crashed the market in 1929 as well...
Actually, in 1929 the Fed attempted to burst the credit bubble, and indeed the crash followed that effort.
So, specifically how am I wrong about monetary policy? You say I am right on "easy money", but wrong otherwise. How, exactly, with regard to monetary policy?
Are you asserting Congress has no control over monetary policy? Certainly they do, far more so than the President. In fact, it's right there in the Constitution. The Humphrey-Hawkins Act is a creature of Congress.
So the Fed caused the crash in '29 by popping a bubble, but its not the Fed's (Greenspan's) easy money policy that caused or at least amplified the current crisis?
I suppose the Democrats are at fault because they filibustered all the GOP's attempts to do the right thing when they controlled Congress?
The Fed policy was cheap interest back in '28 and beyond. The attempt to pop the bubble in '29 precipitated the problem. It was a bubble burst. By Spring of '30 the market had recovered most of its value, from a year earlier.
What made that mess into a depression was the government intervention that followed. In fact, unemployment in '38 was still above 20%.
So, easy money set this up, intervention precipitated it. In '29 and now in '08. Same thing.
And what do you mean by "private subprime" failing? Most of the bad loans are not at all subprime, but adjustable rate loans never intended to go to maturity. Mostly yuppie-flippers, as they have come to be known.
In fact, administrators are concerned not enough people are taking advantage of loan rework programs. Those speculators were walking away from loans even before their rates jumped up.
It was privately issued subprime loans (Countrywide) that went south first, then when property values fell the Alt-A (liar) borrowers started the whole "jingle mail" walkaway thing you are referring to, THEN the FHA backed loans.
That some loans were problematic was not the issue, per se. It was the failure of Fannie Mae. Fannie Mae's failure is what whacked Lehman, AIG, Wachovia and others.
So, while the housing market slowed down and caused some speculators to walk from their loans, the actual problem came from the failure of a government sponsored entity.
We have had market slowdowns before, but never the failure of a GSE such as this.
i have yet to see any "socialist" thing that obama has said... and i've even seen some of the things that people are saying that he is doing, like raising taxes for a higher class... if you're talking about this "socialist agenda" i'd have to disagree because as i see it he's talking about raising taxes for the upper class (taking more pie from them) so that the lower class can retain their cash as a means to make life easier on the lower class... so i must disagree w/ u strongly.
Of course you do. And I am sure your analysis is completely free of partisan bias. ;-)
Nevertheless, his "tax" plan is not a tax cut at all, but a huge welfare program to move money from one group to another, independent of any sort of productivity or merit consideration. It purports to "credit" taxes for those who have paid no income tax.
It is also purported to be a credit against payroll taxes, not income tax. Which of course is the "social security trust" being raided.
Yes, I know. The Republicans have been blocking legislation while they were in the minority. It works both ways. To suggest otherwise makes us both look foolish.
At last, a rousing defense of socialism.
After all, socialism has done so much for the world in the past century.
RogerOnTheRight 3 years ago
I'm not a socialist. I just don't agree with the kind of capitalism the Republicans have run the last eight years. Makes me miss Reaganomics...which I'm sure, as a diehard old-school Republican, you miss too. Like Mitt misses it...like Thompson misses it...like Giuliani misses it...
MidnightChimes 3 years ago
Gee, does that mean you *do* like the sort of Barnie Frank capitalism that gave us Fannie Mae and $700 billion of fraud? I guess when Democrats fail us, it doesn't count.
Say, doesn't he live sort of near you? Are you voting for him?
RogerOnTheRight 3 years ago
You mean the Rick Davis Frannie and Freddie? The lobbyist Rick Davis who works as McCain's campaign manager. The same McCain who has no ties to lobbyists? Big question, Roger? Who was the chairman of the Banking Commission prior to Barney Frank taking over in Jan 2007? How many of the bad mortgages were written prior to Jan 2007? The whole "Barney Frank is to blame for the whole economy going into the shitter" is pretty lame. Just like blaming Bush alone for it. You're better than that!
MidnightChimes 3 years ago
Even before Barney took over as chairman, he and Chris Dodd were blocking every reform bill offered up. There were dozens of hearings on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and about 7 or 8 bills. All blocked by Democrats.
Ever watch the video of Barney insisting Fannie was safe? Or of Franklin Raines doing the same?
Come on, man. This is the Democrats' thing and you know it.
RogerOnTheRight 3 years ago
yes, two democrats took down America. If it wasn't such a FOX News talking point, maybe 'unbelievers' would take your side. There were plenty of regulations on the books. Somehow those in power felt like there was no need to enforce them because they were so concerned about reversing Roe, politicizing the DOJ so that they could suppress voters, invading countries to spend $1T. Ever seen the video of Bush in 2004 praising the 'ownership society'? Nice try Roger. You forget I watch your side.
MidnightChimes 3 years ago
Kevin, please.
About 40 hearings were conducted in the past dozen or so years on Fannie Mae. The fact is, this current financial "meltdown" was triggered by a single event: failure of Fannie Mae.
And Fannie Mae's failure was due to two main things: 1) Congress badgering banks into making "poor" loans and 2) Congress allowing FNMA to hide the books.
Additionally, Congress allowed mtg backed securities in unlimited quantities, so FNMA became a bad loan factory.
Dems in Congress did this.
RogerOnTheRight 3 years ago
You might want to watch the hearings today with Greenspan, Cook, and Snow. So by Congress do you mean the Democrats in Congress? I seem to remember that the Republicans held congress and would have been in charge of those hearings...but I guess regulating Fannie and Freddie weren't part of the 'Contract on America". So are you saying NO Republicans share in the blame? If not...give me some names, iyho...
MidnightChimes 3 years ago
As you may know, simply having a majority in the House or Senate is not enough to establish legislative fiat. A minority can block legislation, which is the case here.
While a few Republicans have been involved, FNMA has been a Democrat safe haven nearly since its founding. Franklin Raines and Jamie Gorelick come to mind as board members who paid themselves millions from fraudulent accounting.
Barney Frank says he passed reform legislation, but it was not a reform at all.
RogerOnTheRight 3 years ago
I do know that about Congress. The DEMS did the same thing that the Republicans are doing now. The GAO says that Fannie and Freddie (Fa/Fr) account for less then 5% of subprime loans. 95% of the subprime loans were written outside of the regulations in place and bundled and sold as AAA securities. Some were sold back to Fa/Fr. Places like Lehman, Sacks, and ML made $Bs off of these loans and there are $67T in CDSs out there (AIG,etc) So who takes the blame for the risky loans outside F/Fr?
MidnightChimes 3 years ago
It was the failure of Fannie/Freddie that precipitated this, not Lehman or AIG.
But, the easy money from the Fed for 10 or 12 years set this up as a bubble. So, I see it as bad monetary policy plus politically sponsored greed and fraud.
Congress sets monetary policy and regulation, not the President.
This is not a failure of markets, but a failure of government. The Bush admin did not fail to enforce regulations, rather the regulations were set up to create this fraud.
RogerOnTheRight 3 years ago
what did obama say that made you call him a socialist? give me facts and quotes.
djarnexus 3 years ago
Obama will always deny being a socialist. But, it fairly describes his ideology.
If you cannot figure that out by now, either you are ignorant, a fool, or both.
RogerOnTheRight 3 years ago
Yes, Roger. I watch the news channels. It's all atwitter with the socialist claim. The voters will vote tomorrow and they will vote knowing he's a socialist. They will know because they heard it ring from the mountains. And maybe they will vote for the socialist. Maybe 50.5 will vote for the socialist and you will be stuck with a socialist. Just like we were stuck with the conservative Bush for 8 years. The complaint box is next to the door...right next to ours.
MidnightChimes 3 years ago
Well, I appreciate the intellectual integrity you show, Kevin. What aggravates me is how his supporters vehemently deny his socialism.
RogerOnTheRight 3 years ago
No, private subprime failed before Fannie and Freddie did.
You are right about the easy money, but dead wrong about monetary policy. You can thank Greenspan (a Republican) for that. And as far as Congress not regulating, why couldn't the Republicans do it like they cut taxes for the wealthy over the will of the Democratic minority.
Sorry. 6 Years of wall-to-wall Republican gov't = EPIC FAIL
Just like last time. I suppose gov't regulation crashed the market in 1929 as well...
jkollin 3 years ago
(Previous comment directed to Roger)
jkollin 3 years ago
Actually, in 1929 the Fed attempted to burst the credit bubble, and indeed the crash followed that effort.
So, specifically how am I wrong about monetary policy? You say I am right on "easy money", but wrong otherwise. How, exactly, with regard to monetary policy?
Are you asserting Congress has no control over monetary policy? Certainly they do, far more so than the President. In fact, it's right there in the Constitution. The Humphrey-Hawkins Act is a creature of Congress.
RogerOnTheRight 3 years ago
So the Fed caused the crash in '29 by popping a bubble, but its not the Fed's (Greenspan's) easy money policy that caused or at least amplified the current crisis?
I suppose the Democrats are at fault because they filibustered all the GOP's attempts to do the right thing when they controlled Congress?
Can you show any evidence of this?
jkollin 3 years ago
The Fed policy was cheap interest back in '28 and beyond. The attempt to pop the bubble in '29 precipitated the problem. It was a bubble burst. By Spring of '30 the market had recovered most of its value, from a year earlier.
What made that mess into a depression was the government intervention that followed. In fact, unemployment in '38 was still above 20%.
So, easy money set this up, intervention precipitated it. In '29 and now in '08. Same thing.
RogerOnTheRight 3 years ago
So, tell me what regulatory failure happened in the implosion of Fannie Mae? What rules were broken, and overlooked, that made this happen?
RogerOnTheRight 3 years ago
And what do you mean by "private subprime" failing? Most of the bad loans are not at all subprime, but adjustable rate loans never intended to go to maturity. Mostly yuppie-flippers, as they have come to be known.
In fact, administrators are concerned not enough people are taking advantage of loan rework programs. Those speculators were walking away from loans even before their rates jumped up.
RogerOnTheRight 3 years ago
It was privately issued subprime loans (Countrywide) that went south first, then when property values fell the Alt-A (liar) borrowers started the whole "jingle mail" walkaway thing you are referring to, THEN the FHA backed loans.
jkollin 3 years ago
That some loans were problematic was not the issue, per se. It was the failure of Fannie Mae. Fannie Mae's failure is what whacked Lehman, AIG, Wachovia and others.
So, while the housing market slowed down and caused some speculators to walk from their loans, the actual problem came from the failure of a government sponsored entity.
We have had market slowdowns before, but never the failure of a GSE such as this.
RogerOnTheRight 3 years ago
i have yet to see any "socialist" thing that obama has said... and i've even seen some of the things that people are saying that he is doing, like raising taxes for a higher class... if you're talking about this "socialist agenda" i'd have to disagree because as i see it he's talking about raising taxes for the upper class (taking more pie from them) so that the lower class can retain their cash as a means to make life easier on the lower class... so i must disagree w/ u strongly.
djarnexus 3 years ago
Of course you do. And I am sure your analysis is completely free of partisan bias. ;-)
Nevertheless, his "tax" plan is not a tax cut at all, but a huge welfare program to move money from one group to another, independent of any sort of productivity or merit consideration. It purports to "credit" taxes for those who have paid no income tax.
It is also purported to be a credit against payroll taxes, not income tax. Which of course is the "social security trust" being raided.
Socialism.
RogerOnTheRight 3 years ago
You may know that a minority in Congress can block legislation, and often do.
Now, if Obama wins and gets his Senate supermajority, there will be absolute accountability, all on the Democrats.
Let's see how this turns out.
RogerOnTheRight 3 years ago
Yes, I know. The Republicans have been blocking legislation while they were in the minority. It works both ways. To suggest otherwise makes us both look foolish.
MidnightChimes 3 years ago