God used "man" to write the gospel because he couldnt use animals, cars, and chairs. man has hands and can reason unlike animals and objects.
man was INSPIRED BY GOD as to what to write. man themselves being in flesh and born into sin will NOT write a book that's going to go against what their flesh enjoys and feels. man alone will not tell man to love enemies and to have one spouse and that killing and homosexuality is wrong. only God will say this to man and send the holyghost to us
actually...the bible does say that satan was cast out of heaven...read the bible (the book of Isaiah) before you start throwing out accusations from what you heard someone else say is or isn't in the bible
That verse is talking about the planet VENUS. "Day star, son of the morning" That is how the ancients referred to venus. The bible is full of astrology. Look it up.
@LambadLambadLambda well, I think the bible is bs, but it does suggest that Satan was cast out of heaven and bound up in hell. not in those words of course.
This is a man-made book. At least the jews are honest enough to admit it.
@LambadLambadLambda Pastor Mark is not a douce, he is a committed follower of Christ, here's a scripture to support what he said: He (Jesus) replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven" - Jesus witnessed Satan being cast out of heaven by God the Father. God Bless :)
@LambadLambadLambda But in the context of the entire Bible, when Satan appears he's always causing problems for God and God's people. If God is going to cast an angel out of heaven, we can be assured that he has a very good reason - Satan wanted to be God, not to help people, not to love people, but to bring glory to himself by doing nothing. How much have the Bible have you read? :)
Mark Driscoll is such a rockstar! I love how he presents the Gospel... and yes, Jesus is going to have win over all.
For those who think God is a judgmental God and sends people he doesnt like to Hell... let me give you something to think about.
Hell is made for those who deny Jesus and God. Not for those who dont "follow their rules." God will not allow someone into heaven who does not believe in Him. It's not the rules or works that saves you, it's following and accepting Jesus.
"Mass produced 1400 years after Jesus"!? Where did he get that number? According to textual critics and historians the earliest NT manuscript copies date from 50-100 years after Christ. Check your history folks!
romans 7 clears up the fact that there is evil inside of us. and, no, we don't need satan to do wrong. however, that doesn't believe that he doesn't exist. evil is beyond even satan. he succumbed to it; he is not the source of it.
Like they said in the video, Christianity is an amalgamation of many religions, such as zoroastrianism, or the more familiar theologies of Greeks/Romans (including the concept of the "Trinity"). And what the bishop says about the hand translation and copies of the texts is true, as well as the fact that they have over 5000 manuscripts of the NT, no two of which are identical.
Jesus was also not the first human sacrifice that raised from the dead to save the sins of the world, by any means.
@JewishResearchGuy It actually not an amalgamation as new zeitgeistist claim. This was settled over 100 years ago by comparative religion scholars. At best they are spurious and largely are a mythology as they didn't even happen in the cultures they claim. And there are over 26,000 writings found from different time periods and countries. it's the most scrutinized text ever. Before 1947 we only had 1000 year old copies. Now we have text from 300-100 B.C. Sir Francis Bacon was wrong.
Thanks for your opinion. I know you want to believe Jesus is God, and the Christian Testament is true, but nothing could be further FROM the truth. We know Jesus did not fulfill the requirements to be any messiah, including the messiah-king of the latter days, so trying to figure out the sources of the storylines is an intriguing process. There definitely is amalgamation from other religions, just like all religions are. Because it is so long ago, we won't have ALL the information.
@JewishResearchGuy Thank you also. It's a perception that He wasn't the messiah because He did not come a a political or military leader but came as a humble,peaceful Messiah. And when Christians surmise if He was Messiah, they are taking it directly from Scripture, and that includes the Torah. His genealogical records the first evidence, have never been disputed to my knowledge. And most of the parallels that Christianity is a borrowed religion have been shown to be way out there.
Well, by your first post I thought you might've been educated on all these matters and we could've had meaningful dialogue, but when you said that the genealogies have never been disputed to your knowledge, you shared that you haven't studied this at all, actually. This has been debated since the earliest days, even by Africanus (c.220 AD), as recorded in Eusebius HE 1:7. And inspired things like Raymond Brown's authoritive book "The Birth of the Messiah" (see pp 503-4, for instance)
@JewishResearchGuy [[Well, by your first post I thought you might've been educated ]] Thank you for thinking that. And I wouldn't call them disputes, but questions. Even I question my own beliefs. It doesn't mean I dispute them. At best the genealogies are explained, but no, not confirmed.
I'm not sure why you wouldn't call them disputes, but instead questions. Perhaps only a select few have questions about it, whereas others dispute it. Even Eusebius' explaination, which is the best so far that can still coincide with requirements in the Tanakh somewhat (But not completely), falls apart, as Raymond Brown pointed out in his book (mentiond above), as well as Jer. 22:24-30. Problems. Same w/ Matthew 1:21-23, as Isaiah 7 is for King Ahaz (c.800 BC), & is not about Jesus. :(
@JewishResearchGuy [[I'm not sure why you wouldn't call them disputes, but instead questions. Perhaps only a select few have questions about it, whereas others dispute it.]]Maybe better put, It's either Catholic theology or Biblical theories. I think the latter fits it better.So it was just infighting within the Catholic Church.[[Isaiah 7 is for King Ahaz]] ??Wasn't he already born?
@JewishResearchGuy [[I'm not sure why you wouldn't call them disputes, but instead questions. ]] Maybe better put, is it Biblical theories or Catholic theology? So it is just infighting within the Catholic religion.[[as Isaiah 7 is for King Ahaz ]] ?huh? King Ahaz was already born.
@JewishResearchGuy [[why you wouldn't call them disputes, but instead questions.]] Because it was just biblical theories, not even Catholic theology. In-fighting within the Catholic religion.[[Isaiah 7 is for King Ahaz ]] Maybe to him but the first part is not about him, since he was already born.
[Because it was just biblical theories, not even Catholic theology. In-fighting within the Catholic religion] Well my friend, the contradictions with the genealogies go against the Tanakh, and against themselves, in insurmountable ways. I don't care about in-fighting, only truth. :o) As for Ahaz already being born, yes, that's why the prophecy was FOR Ahaz, and not ABOUT Ahaz. The child to be born was Isaiah's child, who was born in the very next chapter, Isaiah 8, and had 3 names.
@JewishResearchGuy [[I don't care about in-fighting, only truth.]] Hmm, didn't know you thought Catholic theories are truth.[[The child to be born was Isaiah's child,]] In 8:3 it was Isaiah's wife not the "almah".(Sounds like Lippard's research)Further it is a dual prophecy which I am sure you are aware of if you know where "you" plural and singular is used.
@JewishResearchGuy Also He describes the nature of the sign to be asked as low as Sheol or as high of the heavens. Isaiahs's wife having a baby doesn't seem to have this significance. I don't think this would blow Ahaz away or be such a miraculous sign.
Can you cite which verse(s) you're referring to specifically? The entire context of the story and prophecy that God gives is that this child being born will be a sign to Ahaz (king of Judah), so that he (Ahaz) doesn't have to worry about the two kingdoms coming against him (one being Israel). Please tell me how Jesus being born 800 years later could've been a sign to Ahaz for the situation that took place 800 years before Jesus? It was fulfilled exactly how God said, at that time :o)
I find it SO interesting that Christianit talks about things they don't know. The Tanakh ("old testament") does not have the same concepts that Christianity has. Satan is not an opposing god-like force to God (YHWH). Satan is one of the many hosts of heaven at the will and command of God. The Tanakh says everything comes from God, including evil. And "satan" is not a name, but rather, a Hebrew word meaning adversary/accuser. Even the Angel of the LORD stood as a Satan (Numbers 22:22,24).
@Minister2You the scripture doesn´t say the electo WILL BE fooled..it says "to fool the very elect..if possible" for that means...the elect can´t be ultimately fooled.
If you believe you have an invisible friend you call God, then you must be just as delusional to believe you have an invisible enemy called the Devil.
Deepak is uncomfortable because he finally met someone who is younger, more charismatic, and can control the crowd more easily than he can. A charlitan to out-charlitan the charlitan. It makes my heart smile.
I love it how the bishop keeps on mentioning that he's preached and teached out of the very Bible he's now condemning as if he's making some kind of point - but all it does is make him look hypocritical. It was a disgrace that he was even in the debate. How can you trust someone who is so flippant about what they believe?
the comment to end all comments.....good vs bad...holy vs evil....not good vs evi....there is no such thing as holy..b/c every man has sin, so tht cancels out evil b/c there is nothing to counterbalance it...there is good and bad both created by man...God did good and bad...created Man, and killed Man..Jesus did good and bad...died for us, got angry at the temple....so its part of everthing
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord. Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
I feel like certain parts of this debate were edited out somehow cuase i see some parts where the camera just shifts.Anyone know where i can see the whole thing?
The Bishop next to Depok Chopra is at least honest. The christian pastor guy is stupid and ignorant. Besides, many of the audience are also unbelievebly idiots. They have been brainwashed to believe blindly in the garbage like christian bible and muslim koran.
@zero33AD just was saying, in my previous comment, looks like an atheist in the making.
I think the way he's thinking about his faith is pretty radical by an American bishop's standards - especially one who used to be fundamentalist. He also seems quite knowledgeable and on the right track.
people take homers illiad as a true historical document, but the closest manuscript to the time it was written is 2000 years after. the closest bible gospel manuscript is 25 years later. that seems like a double standerd
All Satan is a liar, murderer, & a thief seeking the glory meant for God alone. He will never get it so he attacks the object of Gods affection ( people) so if he can cause confusion & division to cause distance between man & the true God than he is quite content.
A friend of mine once said about Satan worshipers "If you believe in Satan and you came to this belief through the bible, then you have to know that Satan will lose in the end! WHY would anyone want to worship a loser?!"
This "so-called" Bishop is an apostate! He has no credibility. He is totally mixed up & confused. He makes so many mistakes in what he says. He actually doesn't know if he believes in God or not!
He himself is under the power of Satan, the very topic of discussion.
God is Real & so is Jesus. Jesus came to defeat the works of the devil by dieing on the cross for our sins. Only Jesus can save!
just because he is in the middle doesnt mean he in some way takes on attributes of satan if he doesnt believe in god or believes in him means that he is just is like that not because satan is controlling him and he is confused
yeah, pearson was a personal friend of our former pastor and when pearson turned apostate it really saddened us. i don't know what happened but i am praying for him.
@fyourcouchnigga I agree. They don't challenge anything. That's why I like Deepak!! He thinks we have to stop stressing our this and be kinder to others. I wonder if he paid any of the sheep to come and cheer him on.
If there is a god, and he is a loving god, then he wouldn't resemble the god of the bible. The bible constantly contradicts itself. A loving god would not torture innocent people because they didn't worship him.
so if you cannot trust every single word of the bible, than it just makes the bible and God a lie.. for how could anyone trully know what is accurate or inaccurate? funny how we are so quick to trust in other history books but for some reason, we just have a hard time accepting the bible.. which has never once been proved to be inaccurate historically in any way. we know what to believe to be true of false. we must all find truth in all things not just believe in what we want to be true.
The bible is our first crappy try of explaining the universe and you believe it no matter what any reasonable text book says. That's what religious people believe. No matter what the evidence have faith. The basics of religion... eternal suffering awaits anyone who questions Gods infinite love.
Christians need to google "council of nicea". The bible you belive to be the word of god is actualy only what a bunch of bishops dicided to include in to the bible.
How do you decide what is the word of god and what isnt? What makes you think you know something that other people dont? Does god talk to you? Does this kind of thinking make you feel special?
Anyone that believes the Bible tells ALL about God is thinking too small-minded. The Bible tells of the account of God and his creation, how it started, how it will end, and all the times God has interceded and entered into human situations throughout history.
It's not just a historical textbook, and it's definitely not meant to fully explain God
I answered numerous questions for you. It got tiresome. At some point, you have to find some answers for yourself. Um.. You think you know what happens after we die. Apparently, you think you have more answers than the rest of humanity. And you have no evidence what-so-ever for your stance and you want to claim that others are ignorant? You have a lot to learn, little tyke. The answer to every mystery in the universe is not god. You are the embodiment of ignorance.
Wow, you are a special breed of dummy. The simple fact that you think you have all the answers illustrates just how clueless you truly are. The only people who know a lot are the ones who are aware that people know very little. You've already been judged... and the verdict is that you're a nuisance. ; )
Well to coincide with the level of debate ... because he has a fat head and talks shit. If you would like a more sophisticated debate, then we can discuss the works of other more worthy theists.
he's a "fucking nut job" and "needs to be locked away" because he has a fat head...? nice. and umm... because he "talks shit" i don't know what video you watched, he simply presents the message of the gospel...
If you think that I have every answer for everything in the universe then I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed. But to say with certainty that the existence of everything that's ever existed in the universe is a result of one or more all-powerful, all-knowing, invisible gods, with no evidence what-so-ever to support it, is very tiresome. Stop pestering me.
job 1:6-12, matthew 4:1-12 and revelation 20:7-10 are good stories. other references include zechariah 3:2, matthew 12:26, mark 4:15, luke 10:18, luke 22:3, romans 16:20, 1 corinthians 5:5, 2 corinthians 11:14, 2 corinthians 12:7, 1 timothy 1:20, revelation 12:9. i left out the account of the serpent in the garden of eden (genesis 3) because it doesn't use the word devil or satan so i thought you would contest that. however revelation 12:9 clarifies that the "ancient serpent" is called satan.
The satan figure in Job and the garden of eden is not the same satan that we think of today, but rather an angel in God's court who obeys god's will. (look it up on wikipedia). even in the gospels it is not a the diabolical being that we have today. It was not until medieval art started romanticising satan that we started reading him as a diabolical being into the text. for more info see: Henry Ansgar Kelly's Satan a biography.
sorry about my influx of bible references, that was probably in bad taste. in my opinion though, you'd have to read far more into the text to not think satan was a diabolical being. eg. 1 Peter 5:8: Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.
It is impossible to prove anything with 100% certainty & that includes your very own existence. How do we know we really exist? I don't think we can be 100% sure of that either.
Unfortunately, there are more unintelligent people than intelligent people. Ignorant and stupid people have no problem believing whatever floats their boat. For thinkers, it's different situation. That's why there are more religious people than nonreligious. It's all statistics playing off g-distribution.
Any sane person would see that you have no argument to lose. You have presented no answers because there are none that support your fundamentalist worldview. If you claim that I did not answer your questions then you are not only ignorant but you are a liar. I apologize if I'm being unkind. I am willing to listen to anybody with a valid argument. But please stop making a nuisance of yourself until you have at least one logical thing to say.
reason (1): the power of comprehending, inferring, or thinking especially in orderly rational ways : intelligence (2): proper exercise of the mind (3): sanity b: the sum of the intellectual powers. You have no REASON what-so-ever. I don't think I have all of the answers. I present what scientists believe to be the truth based on evidence which supports it. You are the one that thinks he has all of the answers and if there is a god who sees and hears all then he is unddoubtedly laughing at you.
BTW you've never seen god so I suppose you're only speculating as to his existence. You're whole argument just collapsed. Your willingness to believe propaganda over science is not a good sign of things to come for humanity.
You seem to have missed the part where it can take hundreds of thousands of years for stars to form. You're wearing my patience thin with your inability to grasp these concepts. I'm done giving you all the answers when you have not supplied one logical argument for your stance on the topic. If we don't know about everything in the universe then it must've been god's doing? How juvenile.
We have seen stars at every stage in their evolution, because there are so many of them! Imagine that you are an alien scientist visiting the earth for one day, and you need to learn about the life cycle of humans. You can't witness one human's whole life in one day, but if you observe many many humans at different stages of life, you could piece together how humans are born, live, and die. It is a theory supported by evidence which is more than religion has ever been. hmmm
Even though star formation can happen quite "quickly" compared to other astronomical events, it still can take hundreds of thousands of years for a molecular cloud to collapse and form stars. That time scale totally dwarfs a human lifespan, so the likelihood of looking at the exact place in the sky where a star begins fusion, and looking with a powerful enough telescope, is extremely low.
The final major event in the formation of the Earth was probably the collision with a Mars-sized planetary body. This collision added many millions of tons of material to the Earth. Some material also went into orbit of the Earth and evolved into the Moon... It's interesting stuff. I'd bet it'd be even more interesting if you looked it up yourself. ; )
Early in its life, 4.5-4.6 billion years ago, the Sun was surrounded by clouds of dust and gas which clumped into increasingly larger pieces. Eventually, enough was concentrated in four bodies to form the inner solar system planets, Mercury, Venus, Mars and Earth. Within 10 million years, Earth had reached about 64 percent of its present size and was the dominant planetary body within 93 million miles of the Sun.
You will not win this argument if that is your goal. Give it up. Show some initiative and look some of these things up for yourself. You probably wont because it differs from your current perspective of things. I never said there was no God or Gods, they may exist or they may not exist. But too many religious people confuse faith with fact. You have faith that there's a god...Let's leave it at that.
There are a lot views which christians don't share. There are many different interpretations. That's my whole point. It is impossible to know, with certainty, that which many religious people claim to know.
Genesis 1 says that the earth was created on the first day of creation (Genesis 1:15). From there, we can begin calculations of the age of the earth.
Adam was created on Day 6, so there were 5 days before him. If we add up the dates from Adam to Abraham, we get about 2,000 years, using the Masoretic Hebrew text of Genesis 5 and 11. Whether Christian or secular, most scholars would agree that Abraham lived about 2,000 B.C. (4,000 years ago). 2000 yrs. + 4000 yrs. + 5 days = 6000 yrs 5 days
yes that is the beginning of time but God is bigger than time and the end time prophecies say that he will recreate the world what makes us think he hasnt done it before
And if you lived in a different part of the world you'd likely subscribe to seperate Gods, ideas & religious texts. So, who's right? Is it an amalgam of them all? Or is it all superstition? These are questions that no human has the answers to.
yes and the bible says its not our job to question God but our purpose is to worship him in everything we do. and because we have the knowledge of what is good and what is evil it is also or calling to deliver Gods message of love to everyone who is deceived by pride.
In saying that, you assume that your god is the right one and that you are enlightened as to what his or her message is. How can you know? In my opinion, nobody truly knows. Why worship something if we're not sure that it even exists? Isn't being a kind, thoughtful person enough?
bro his message is not the mystery. his message is love. unconditional love for everyone. the mystery is how He could love us unconditionally. that is why the people who belive in him without seeing(faith) can live out this life in peace and joy in all their situations.
The mystery is why religious people think that they know more than every other person on earth. They read or heard of this information through a holy book, which may or may not be true. Let's not pretend that either of us knows what awaits us after death. It's impossible to know. Also, I've met many religious people who were neither peaceful or joyous. So, I'll have to disagree with you on that point.
no man can be made secure by wickedness, but the root of those who are good is immovable. whoever loves to be instructed also loves knowledge, but those who cant stand to be taught are stupid.
People should learn but they should learn things that can be proven. I believe that those who believe anything they're told, without question, are stupid. You should challenge the things you are taught. The most intelligent people are often the most inquisitive. Also, religion has nothing to do with whether you're a good person or not. I'm confident that even the pope would agree with that statement.
you are right there, but eternal life can not be gained by works alone. the bible says that Jesus is the only way to get to the Father(God) i was a addict bro. i was high for three years straight. i was selling and fighting and lying and hiding, but when it was all gone, like it will someday be, i had nothing.
i was completly broken and had nowhere to go. thats what it takes to accept salvation through Jesus. You finally have to understand that you may be able to survive this physical life, but if you really what to do more than just survive then you have to accept the promises in Gods word that he loves you and wants you. that he will never leave you or forsake you. that he esteems those, who belive without seeing ,higher than the angels because of our faith in what we do not see. Jesus loves YOU bro
Well, if simple kindness doesn't secure you a place in "heaven" then that is not a religion that I'd like to be a part of. So, all of the jews, muslims and hindus in the world, who've been decent human beings, will automatically be sent to hell simply because they didn't acknowledge the existence of christ?! That doesn't seem right to me.
kindness can be manifested in any person or peoples, but the truly righteous also manifest love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, FAITH, gentleness, and self-control. there can be no laws or rules against these things, but the works of the unrighteous are as follows:idolatry, rebellion, hatred, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfishness, dissensions, factions, envy, intoxication, and carousing.
There's no laws or rules against self control? I guess rape & violence are legal then, huh? Lol. And I'd consider Jesus to be a rebel. A lot of the greatest people in history were rebels. Rebellion is important to bring about positive change. Unrighteous? I don't think so. Nearly all of the traits you mentioned are emotions that are experienced by EVERYONE on earth. This is a way of making people feel guilty for their supposed "sins".
no one can pass a law against a person exhibiting self-control, and Jesus was a rebel to the current ideologies not to His authority. the fact that everyone feels or exhibits all the fruits of the flesh means that we all are equally human, but also that we all have a equal opportunity to strive for a perfected strength in those areas that pertain to us. the difference between a saint and a sinner is not that a saint does not sin but that his sin is means for instruction and growth.
I have understood everything you've typed. I simply disagree with it. Radiometric dating proves the earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old. Look it up if you want to. The bible claims it is only slightly more than 6000 years old.
There is little valid evidence of almost anything in the bible. Your willing to deny evidence in order to keep your beliefs which is what religions are designed to do. My arguments are valid, yours haven't been yet. Except it.
Well, one example of it being false would be according to the bible the earth is less than 7000 years old. Science has determined it's about 4.6 billion years old. That's a pretty big gap wouldn't you say? And as for the revisions: hell wasn't even introduced into the story until the new testament.
I'm not contradicting myself. I base my conclusions on evidence. The Bible was written over hundreds of years by many different people and has been revised countless times. How can it be accurate if it's been revised? Also modern science has proven much of the bible (or any holy book for that matter) to be false and impossible. It's a collection of stories that served as moral guidelines for a much more primitive time. It's time to move on.
In theory, ANYTHING could exist. That's not the way proof works. You prove that something DOES exist and you have no proof that god exists. I'm not even saying that there is no god, I'm simply stating that there's no evidence of it. And if there are any gods they're DEFINITELY not the gods of any holy books.
Even if there is one real truth, for instance: there has never been any proof of god, you are rarely going to convince someone with faith otherwise. That's where the "grey" comes in. Facts have no influence upon some people. And things which I consider to be facts they would probably consider to be false. These examples further prove chopra's point.
danny, the truth is everyone has their own interpretation of true, false, right and wrong and it's not easy to sway a person from their perspective in life. It's a grey world. There's very little that exists within the borders of black and white.
Pastor Mark Driscoll and Annie Lobert does not give evidence to their argument. They just go by personal experience and just saying it is that way. It become pointless to talk to them about it.
No. My saying that discernment is a gift and that only those that know Jesus Christ for the pardoning of their sins can recieve it is a conviction of my faith. Agree or disagree it doesn't change the truth.
No, it takes a true believer who speaks to God to know that He declares His Word to be good and that He being in control does not decieve us by giving us a book that is flawd. God is just big enough that His Words dont fail. Discernment is a gift, but so is faith. Faith is knowing that the bible as it is currently is what God wants us to have.
The bishop doesn't believe the bible is truth, so basically he is saying that what is recorded in it, is not accurate. I wonder if he thinks Jesus died for us on the cross, or if that is inaccurate too? (This guy is slippery.)
Sad but true. He once was the greatest of us. Since he began preaching this Gospel of Inclusion mess we have left him to his dillusion. Yes, that slippery, pimp/car salesman is an amazing orator. It made him a good preacher, and now makes him walk alone.
Ok, Kids. Read the bible. There were a whole bunch of strange laws in the old testament that were nullified when Christ died on the cross, creating a new covenant between God and man. That's why we can eat pigs now. That's why we don't stone people. Hey, what do you know?! Another reason to appreciate Christ's sacrifice!
... actually yes, and I'll tell you why, because the Bible is a several thousand year old document.
The Bible has things that say "does not nature show us that if a man has long hair it is a shame unto him" (Didn't manly Jesus have long hair, according to almost every Christian's image of him?)
It also says we should stone disobedient children, and shun women during their menstruation, and not marry outside of our religion
the Bible doesn't say a lot of the bullshit that Mr. Mars Hill is preaching but here we are listening to him... so maybe he should shut up about the hoofed image thing
Why does the audience loudly cheer and clap whenever the two Christians on the left side of the stage (the audience's left) make their points? Is it just me, or or are most of the people in that audience fundamentalist Christians (though they did cheer for a point made by Deepak Chopra, so that adds a twist to everything. Mabye the audience is half non-Evangelical, half Evangelical).
I appreciate this debate because there is no name calling or at least as far as I have seen. I think we should follow that example. Let's not call people names.
you can not pick and choose from the Bible, either you believe all of it or none of it, no exceptions. this "bishop" who calls himself a christian, is not a true believer. its frustrating to hear that he calls himself a christian when a true Christ follower aka a christian is to believe the entire Bible. God didn't say we have the right to pick and choose. We are called to accept the ENTIRE Bible!
ducks, who gave you the knowledge to define who is and is not a "true christian"? You must not have read the bible very closely because, as a lot of people have pointed out before me, every religious person chooses to adhere to the sections of the bible that directly pertain to their beliefs as a person. Many parts were poorly concieved and outright cruel. (The stoning of unruly women and children) Or is that a hobby of yours too?
All denominations pick & choose what they want to believe & follow out of the bible. The only difference is that Carlton Pearson admits to picking & choosing and I think he gave a good reason why he does that.
hello....there is no Satan. what year is this?
adstanra 2 weeks ago
God used "man" to write the gospel because he couldnt use animals, cars, and chairs. man has hands and can reason unlike animals and objects.
man was INSPIRED BY GOD as to what to write. man themselves being in flesh and born into sin will NOT write a book that's going to go against what their flesh enjoys and feels. man alone will not tell man to love enemies and to have one spouse and that killing and homosexuality is wrong. only God will say this to man and send the holyghost to us
721rem 2 months ago
actually...the bible does say that satan was cast out of heaven...read the bible (the book of Isaiah) before you start throwing out accusations from what you heard someone else say is or isn't in the bible
Bamakeithd 10 months ago
@Bamakeithd
That verse is talking about the planet VENUS. "Day star, son of the morning" That is how the ancients referred to venus. The bible is full of astrology. Look it up.
LambadLambadLambda 3 months ago
That pastor Marc is such a douche. The Bible doesn't say half the things he claims about Satan either, (him being kicked out of heaven etc...)
LambadLambadLambda 10 months ago
@LambadLambadLambda well, I think the bible is bs, but it does suggest that Satan was cast out of heaven and bound up in hell. not in those words of course.
This is a man-made book. At least the jews are honest enough to admit it.
Clifton100 10 months ago
@LambadLambadLambda Pastor Mark is not a douce, he is a committed follower of Christ, here's a scripture to support what he said: He (Jesus) replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven" - Jesus witnessed Satan being cast out of heaven by God the Father. God Bless :)
AlistairDempsey 3 weeks ago
@AlistairDempsey
Falling like lightening from heaven could be used to describe a plane crashing, it doesn't mean that plane lead a rebellion against God etc...
LambadLambadLambda 3 weeks ago
@LambadLambadLambda But in the context of the entire Bible, when Satan appears he's always causing problems for God and God's people. If God is going to cast an angel out of heaven, we can be assured that he has a very good reason - Satan wanted to be God, not to help people, not to love people, but to bring glory to himself by doing nothing. How much have the Bible have you read? :)
AlistairDempsey 3 weeks ago
I wanna give that hooker the clap. I'll bet i'm too late
Clifton100 11 months ago
Mark Driscoll is such a rockstar! I love how he presents the Gospel... and yes, Jesus is going to have win over all.
For those who think God is a judgmental God and sends people he doesnt like to Hell... let me give you something to think about.
Hell is made for those who deny Jesus and God. Not for those who dont "follow their rules." God will not allow someone into heaven who does not believe in Him. It's not the rules or works that saves you, it's following and accepting Jesus.
Nightwing20 11 months ago
Why is there not an atheist on this panel?
aLOVINGinfidel 11 months ago
"Mass produced 1400 years after Jesus"!? Where did he get that number? According to textual critics and historians the earliest NT manuscript copies date from 50-100 years after Christ. Check your history folks!
itsaguything74 1 year ago
romans 7 clears up the fact that there is evil inside of us. and, no, we don't need satan to do wrong. however, that doesn't believe that he doesn't exist. evil is beyond even satan. he succumbed to it; he is not the source of it.
matthew11and25 1 year ago
Like they said in the video, Christianity is an amalgamation of many religions, such as zoroastrianism, or the more familiar theologies of Greeks/Romans (including the concept of the "Trinity"). And what the bishop says about the hand translation and copies of the texts is true, as well as the fact that they have over 5000 manuscripts of the NT, no two of which are identical.
Jesus was also not the first human sacrifice that raised from the dead to save the sins of the world, by any means.
JewishResearchGuy 1 year ago
@JewishResearchGuy It actually not an amalgamation as new zeitgeistist claim. This was settled over 100 years ago by comparative religion scholars. At best they are spurious and largely are a mythology as they didn't even happen in the cultures they claim. And there are over 26,000 writings found from different time periods and countries. it's the most scrutinized text ever. Before 1947 we only had 1000 year old copies. Now we have text from 300-100 B.C. Sir Francis Bacon was wrong.
MayonR 1 year ago
@MayonR
Thanks for your opinion. I know you want to believe Jesus is God, and the Christian Testament is true, but nothing could be further FROM the truth. We know Jesus did not fulfill the requirements to be any messiah, including the messiah-king of the latter days, so trying to figure out the sources of the storylines is an intriguing process. There definitely is amalgamation from other religions, just like all religions are. Because it is so long ago, we won't have ALL the information.
JewishResearchGuy 1 year ago
@JewishResearchGuy Thank you also. It's a perception that He wasn't the messiah because He did not come a a political or military leader but came as a humble,peaceful Messiah. And when Christians surmise if He was Messiah, they are taking it directly from Scripture, and that includes the Torah. His genealogical records the first evidence, have never been disputed to my knowledge. And most of the parallels that Christianity is a borrowed religion have been shown to be way out there.
MayonR 1 year ago
@MayonR
Well, by your first post I thought you might've been educated on all these matters and we could've had meaningful dialogue, but when you said that the genealogies have never been disputed to your knowledge, you shared that you haven't studied this at all, actually. This has been debated since the earliest days, even by Africanus (c.220 AD), as recorded in Eusebius HE 1:7. And inspired things like Raymond Brown's authoritive book "The Birth of the Messiah" (see pp 503-4, for instance)
JewishResearchGuy 1 year ago
@JewishResearchGuy [[Well, by your first post I thought you might've been educated ]] Thank you for thinking that. And I wouldn't call them disputes, but questions. Even I question my own beliefs. It doesn't mean I dispute them. At best the genealogies are explained, but no, not confirmed.
MayonR 1 year ago
@MayonR
I'm not sure why you wouldn't call them disputes, but instead questions. Perhaps only a select few have questions about it, whereas others dispute it. Even Eusebius' explaination, which is the best so far that can still coincide with requirements in the Tanakh somewhat (But not completely), falls apart, as Raymond Brown pointed out in his book (mentiond above), as well as Jer. 22:24-30. Problems. Same w/ Matthew 1:21-23, as Isaiah 7 is for King Ahaz (c.800 BC), & is not about Jesus. :(
JewishResearchGuy 1 year ago
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@JewishResearchGuy [[I'm not sure why you wouldn't call them disputes, but instead questions. Perhaps only a select few have questions about it, whereas others dispute it.]]Maybe better put, It's either Catholic theology or Biblical theories. I think the latter fits it better.So it was just infighting within the Catholic Church.[[Isaiah 7 is for King Ahaz]] ??Wasn't he already born?
MayonR 1 year ago
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@JewishResearchGuy [[I'm not sure why you wouldn't call them disputes, but instead questions. ]] Maybe better put, is it Biblical theories or Catholic theology? So it is just infighting within the Catholic religion.[[as Isaiah 7 is for King Ahaz ]] ?huh? King Ahaz was already born.
MayonR 1 year ago
@JewishResearchGuy [[why you wouldn't call them disputes, but instead questions.]] Because it was just biblical theories, not even Catholic theology. In-fighting within the Catholic religion.[[Isaiah 7 is for King Ahaz ]] Maybe to him but the first part is not about him, since he was already born.
MayonR 1 year ago
@MayonR
[Because it was just biblical theories, not even Catholic theology. In-fighting within the Catholic religion] Well my friend, the contradictions with the genealogies go against the Tanakh, and against themselves, in insurmountable ways. I don't care about in-fighting, only truth. :o) As for Ahaz already being born, yes, that's why the prophecy was FOR Ahaz, and not ABOUT Ahaz. The child to be born was Isaiah's child, who was born in the very next chapter, Isaiah 8, and had 3 names.
JewishResearchGuy 1 year ago
@JewishResearchGuy [[I don't care about in-fighting, only truth.]] Hmm, didn't know you thought Catholic theories are truth.[[The child to be born was Isaiah's child,]] In 8:3 it was Isaiah's wife not the "almah".(Sounds like Lippard's research)Further it is a dual prophecy which I am sure you are aware of if you know where "you" plural and singular is used.
MayonR 1 year ago
@JewishResearchGuy Also He describes the nature of the sign to be asked as low as Sheol or as high of the heavens. Isaiahs's wife having a baby doesn't seem to have this significance. I don't think this would blow Ahaz away or be such a miraculous sign.
MayonR 1 year ago
@MayonR
Can you cite which verse(s) you're referring to specifically? The entire context of the story and prophecy that God gives is that this child being born will be a sign to Ahaz (king of Judah), so that he (Ahaz) doesn't have to worry about the two kingdoms coming against him (one being Israel). Please tell me how Jesus being born 800 years later could've been a sign to Ahaz for the situation that took place 800 years before Jesus? It was fulfilled exactly how God said, at that time :o)
JewishResearchGuy 1 year ago
I find it SO interesting that Christianit talks about things they don't know. The Tanakh ("old testament") does not have the same concepts that Christianity has. Satan is not an opposing god-like force to God (YHWH). Satan is one of the many hosts of heaven at the will and command of God. The Tanakh says everything comes from God, including evil. And "satan" is not a name, but rather, a Hebrew word meaning adversary/accuser. Even the Angel of the LORD stood as a Satan (Numbers 22:22,24).
JewishResearchGuy 1 year ago
For everyone that has either commented below me or has made the highest ratings makes me feel sick. *Throws Up*
MitsTheMan 1 year ago
The Bishop need prayer. In the last days even the very elect will be fooled. He has been fooled!
Minister2You 1 year ago
@Minister2You the scripture doesn´t say the electo WILL BE fooled..it says "to fool the very elect..if possible" for that means...the elect can´t be ultimately fooled.
birdonawi 1 year ago
This just looks like a bunch of crazy people debating a crazy idea to me.
MetalTimesInfinity 1 year ago
If you believe you have an invisible friend you call God, then you must be just as delusional to believe you have an invisible enemy called the Devil.
cagwa 1 year ago
You heard the tubby. Knowing that there is Satan gives him great joy.
ccheng21 1 year ago
@ccheng21 But Satan doesn't exist!
lH0VA 1 year ago
The audience is full of Bible Humpers...
rhatcher010 1 year ago
Deepak is uncomfortable because he finally met someone who is younger, more charismatic, and can control the crowd more easily than he can. A charlitan to out-charlitan the charlitan. It makes my heart smile.
friendlycakeasaurus 1 year ago
i wanna punch that fat pastor in the fuckin' face !!!
spideycentz 1 year ago
I love it how the bishop keeps on mentioning that he's preached and teached out of the very Bible he's now condemning as if he's making some kind of point - but all it does is make him look hypocritical. It was a disgrace that he was even in the debate. How can you trust someone who is so flippant about what they believe?
djchozen91 1 year ago
somebody please let christopher hitchens loose on this stage so he can slap some sense into the faithheads
azn0blazn 1 year ago
Kudos to the young pastor
Torur88 1 year ago
the comment to end all comments.....good vs bad...holy vs evil....not good vs evi....there is no such thing as holy..b/c every man has sin, so tht cancels out evil b/c there is nothing to counterbalance it...there is good and bad both created by man...God did good and bad...created Man, and killed Man..Jesus did good and bad...died for us, got angry at the temple....so its part of everthing
ba4010 1 year ago
Why the fuck are people applauding this fat frathead retard Christard? He's regurgitating pure rhetoric!
MellowChaos 1 year ago
chopra and pearson do the devil proud. they will receive their just rewards........ heretical fools.
anewdayproductions 1 year ago
@anewdayproductions
You CANNOT be fucking serious.
MellowChaos 1 year ago
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord. Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Brendanoco 2 years ago
Carlton Pearson has a seducing spirit to preach false doctrine. I can't cannot call him Bishop.
SatinB7 2 years ago
@SatinB7 Neither can I and I'm a humanist.
RealTime88 1 year ago
I feel like certain parts of this debate were edited out somehow cuase i see some parts where the camera just shifts.Anyone know where i can see the whole thing?
AngeloftheBx 2 years ago
This is the entire debate
Deadmetal54 2 years ago
Bishop Carlton Pears is atheist or what? why he calling bible a fairytale?
samgee2007 2 years ago
he respects the bible but he doesnt take it literally.Hes far from an atheist
AngeloftheBx 2 years ago
The Bishop next to Depok Chopra is at least honest. The christian pastor guy is stupid and ignorant. Besides, many of the audience are also unbelievebly idiots. They have been brainwashed to believe blindly in the garbage like christian bible and muslim koran.
grapesandapple 2 years ago
that bishop needs to take that collar off before someone mistakes him for a christian...
zero33AD 2 years ago 35
@zero33AD OMG. So true.
im3ngs 1 year ago
@zero33AD I agree. He's beyond the [cult] of Christianity. He actually met God when he overcame the [cult] of religious belief.
MassiveFaith 1 year ago
@zero33AD just was saying, in my previous comment, looks like an atheist in the making.
I think the way he's thinking about his faith is pretty radical by an American bishop's standards - especially one who used to be fundamentalist. He also seems quite knowledgeable and on the right track.
nowgleaning 4 months ago
Two things that are not equal cannot be in conflict. That is like a fantom weight fighting a heavy weight. It doesn't work.
antoinelamond 2 years ago
people take homers illiad as a true historical document, but the closest manuscript to the time it was written is 2000 years after. the closest bible gospel manuscript is 25 years later. that seems like a double standerd
SAM135073 2 years ago 2
we have more copies of the bible than we do shakespeare
brettmacintyre 2 years ago
And we have more people stealing the bible than any other book in the world...
GaaraBabyEater 2 years ago
I'm quite sure that is correct. Thats because the bible is more of a superficially promotoed "sale" than shakespeare.
Mightymopar1973 2 years ago
All Satan is a liar, murderer, & a thief seeking the glory meant for God alone. He will never get it so he attacks the object of Gods affection ( people) so if he can cause confusion & division to cause distance between man & the true God than he is quite content.
lisagabel 2 years ago
the only people dumber than the hooker and the christian is the audience that is applauding them.
joerogan7 2 years ago 2
@joerogan7 hahahahaha, even if god was real I know he wouldn't kill billions of people who don't follow a religion.
socomplete 1 year ago
A friend of mine once said about Satan worshipers "If you believe in Satan and you came to this belief through the bible, then you have to know that Satan will lose in the end! WHY would anyone want to worship a loser?!"
jerami101 2 years ago 2
This "so-called" Bishop is an apostate! He has no credibility. He is totally mixed up & confused. He makes so many mistakes in what he says. He actually doesn't know if he believes in God or not!
He himself is under the power of Satan, the very topic of discussion.
God is Real & so is Jesus. Jesus came to defeat the works of the devil by dieing on the cross for our sins. Only Jesus can save!
wjuler 2 years ago
just because he is in the middle doesnt mean he in some way takes on attributes of satan if he doesnt believe in god or believes in him means that he is just is like that not because satan is controlling him and he is confused
Cobra9876 2 years ago
yeah, pearson was a personal friend of our former pastor and when pearson turned apostate it really saddened us. i don't know what happened but i am praying for him.
emmanuelibus 2 years ago
I have to admire Mark's self-control listening to some of these statements. The Bishop is clearly uninformed on how we got today's scriptures.
hcschmid 2 years ago
I concur! he picked his fights well in this debate, despite a uninformed opponent
straydoggywog 2 years ago
I concur! he chose his fights very well in this debate despite the uninformed opponent
straydoggywog 2 years ago
Mindless sheep clapping in the audience.
fyourcouchnigga 2 years ago 13
@fyourcouchnigga I agree. They don't challenge anything. That's why I like Deepak!! He thinks we have to stop stressing our this and be kinder to others. I wonder if he paid any of the sheep to come and cheer him on.
RealTime88 1 year ago
Bishop....WHATT ARRRE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!
palacekid 2 years ago
If there is a god, and he is a loving god, then he wouldn't resemble the god of the bible. The bible constantly contradicts itself. A loving god would not torture innocent people because they didn't worship him.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago 3
Name a contradiction in the Bible.
Estel2931 2 years ago
so if you cannot trust every single word of the bible, than it just makes the bible and God a lie.. for how could anyone trully know what is accurate or inaccurate? funny how we are so quick to trust in other history books but for some reason, we just have a hard time accepting the bible.. which has never once been proved to be inaccurate historically in any way. we know what to believe to be true of false. we must all find truth in all things not just believe in what we want to be true.
armywifey113 2 years ago
The bible is our first crappy try of explaining the universe and you believe it no matter what any reasonable text book says. That's what religious people believe. No matter what the evidence have faith. The basics of religion... eternal suffering awaits anyone who questions Gods infinite love.
SHADOW10621 2 years ago
Christians need to google "council of nicea". The bible you belive to be the word of god is actualy only what a bunch of bishops dicided to include in to the bible.
DharmRakshak2 2 years ago
The bible is just a book the pharisees use to quote scripture out of context. The Word of God, that is what i believe in.
hutteritefarmboy 2 years ago
How do you decide what is the word of god and what isnt? What makes you think you know something that other people dont? Does god talk to you? Does this kind of thinking make you feel special?
DharmRakshak2 2 years ago
Anyone that believes the Bible tells ALL about God is thinking too small-minded. The Bible tells of the account of God and his creation, how it started, how it will end, and all the times God has interceded and entered into human situations throughout history.
It's not just a historical textbook, and it's definitely not meant to fully explain God
Peace
NameBrandClique 2 years ago
I answered numerous questions for you. It got tiresome. At some point, you have to find some answers for yourself. Um.. You think you know what happens after we die. Apparently, you think you have more answers than the rest of humanity. And you have no evidence what-so-ever for your stance and you want to claim that others are ignorant? You have a lot to learn, little tyke. The answer to every mystery in the universe is not god. You are the embodiment of ignorance.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
Wow, you are a special breed of dummy. The simple fact that you think you have all the answers illustrates just how clueless you truly are. The only people who know a lot are the ones who are aware that people know very little. You've already been judged... and the verdict is that you're a nuisance. ; )
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
i like mark driscoll's shirt does anyone know who made it?
captainblackbeard3 2 years ago
Although I supplied you with countless answers I suppose it's your prerogative to be blissfully ignorant. Enjoy your remaining years. : )
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
I could just as easily make up answers. Not sure thats how it works.
Atheeizm 2 years ago
This pastor guy is a fucking nut job. He needs to be locked away.
Atheeizm 2 years ago
How so?
jbrowse09 2 years ago
Well to coincide with the level of debate ... because he has a fat head and talks shit. If you would like a more sophisticated debate, then we can discuss the works of other more worthy theists.
Atheeizm 2 years ago
he's a "fucking nut job" and "needs to be locked away" because he has a fat head...? nice. and umm... because he "talks shit" i don't know what video you watched, he simply presents the message of the gospel...
jbrowse09 2 years ago
If you think that I have every answer for everything in the universe then I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed. But to say with certainty that the existence of everything that's ever existed in the universe is a result of one or more all-powerful, all-knowing, invisible gods, with no evidence what-so-ever to support it, is very tiresome. Stop pestering me.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
can anyone cite a verse and keep it in its context where the bible actually mentions Satan.
goodmanj 2 years ago
job 1:6-12, matthew 4:1-12 and revelation 20:7-10 are good stories. other references include zechariah 3:2, matthew 12:26, mark 4:15, luke 10:18, luke 22:3, romans 16:20, 1 corinthians 5:5, 2 corinthians 11:14, 2 corinthians 12:7, 1 timothy 1:20, revelation 12:9. i left out the account of the serpent in the garden of eden (genesis 3) because it doesn't use the word devil or satan so i thought you would contest that. however revelation 12:9 clarifies that the "ancient serpent" is called satan.
gocbenmartin4haircut 2 years ago
The satan figure in Job and the garden of eden is not the same satan that we think of today, but rather an angel in God's court who obeys god's will. (look it up on wikipedia). even in the gospels it is not a the diabolical being that we have today. It was not until medieval art started romanticising satan that we started reading him as a diabolical being into the text. for more info see: Henry Ansgar Kelly's Satan a biography.
goodmanj 2 years ago
sorry about my influx of bible references, that was probably in bad taste. in my opinion though, you'd have to read far more into the text to not think satan was a diabolical being. eg. 1 Peter 5:8: Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.
gocbenmartin4haircut 2 years ago
I agree but try to not cite wikipedia as a source . .
zachywackyt 2 years ago
It's hard to keep in context with just one verse, but here's one:
Satan was lifted up because of his beauty, he corrupted the wisdom by reason of his brightness (This is in Ezekiel 28:17)
Peace
NameBrandClique 2 years ago
The context of this verse is directed towards the king of Tyre, (an ancient Phonecian city). Not satan.
goodmanj 2 years ago
It all came from nature. Material that has existed long before our presence and it'll exist long after we're gone.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
It is impossible to prove anything with 100% certainty & that includes your very own existence. How do we know we really exist? I don't think we can be 100% sure of that either.
gracerules2008 2 years ago
Unfortunately, there are more unintelligent people than intelligent people. Ignorant and stupid people have no problem believing whatever floats their boat. For thinkers, it's different situation. That's why there are more religious people than nonreligious. It's all statistics playing off g-distribution.
aaronhallam61 2 years ago
Regardless, I hope you have a good day whether it's a result of god or not.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
Any sane person would see that you have no argument to lose. You have presented no answers because there are none that support your fundamentalist worldview. If you claim that I did not answer your questions then you are not only ignorant but you are a liar. I apologize if I'm being unkind. I am willing to listen to anybody with a valid argument. But please stop making a nuisance of yourself until you have at least one logical thing to say.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
You can waste your time praying and being preached to but please refrain from wasting any of mine with your lack of evidence and reason.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
reason (1): the power of comprehending, inferring, or thinking especially in orderly rational ways : intelligence (2): proper exercise of the mind (3): sanity b: the sum of the intellectual powers. You have no REASON what-so-ever. I don't think I have all of the answers. I present what scientists believe to be the truth based on evidence which supports it. You are the one that thinks he has all of the answers and if there is a god who sees and hears all then he is unddoubtedly laughing at you.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
BTW you've never seen god so I suppose you're only speculating as to his existence. You're whole argument just collapsed. Your willingness to believe propaganda over science is not a good sign of things to come for humanity.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
You seem to have missed the part where it can take hundreds of thousands of years for stars to form. You're wearing my patience thin with your inability to grasp these concepts. I'm done giving you all the answers when you have not supplied one logical argument for your stance on the topic. If we don't know about everything in the universe then it must've been god's doing? How juvenile.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
We have seen stars at every stage in their evolution, because there are so many of them! Imagine that you are an alien scientist visiting the earth for one day, and you need to learn about the life cycle of humans. You can't witness one human's whole life in one day, but if you observe many many humans at different stages of life, you could piece together how humans are born, live, and die. It is a theory supported by evidence which is more than religion has ever been. hmmm
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
Even though star formation can happen quite "quickly" compared to other astronomical events, it still can take hundreds of thousands of years for a molecular cloud to collapse and form stars. That time scale totally dwarfs a human lifespan, so the likelihood of looking at the exact place in the sky where a star begins fusion, and looking with a powerful enough telescope, is extremely low.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
The final major event in the formation of the Earth was probably the collision with a Mars-sized planetary body. This collision added many millions of tons of material to the Earth. Some material also went into orbit of the Earth and evolved into the Moon... It's interesting stuff. I'd bet it'd be even more interesting if you looked it up yourself. ; )
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
Early in its life, 4.5-4.6 billion years ago, the Sun was surrounded by clouds of dust and gas which clumped into increasingly larger pieces. Eventually, enough was concentrated in four bodies to form the inner solar system planets, Mercury, Venus, Mars and Earth. Within 10 million years, Earth had reached about 64 percent of its present size and was the dominant planetary body within 93 million miles of the Sun.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
You will not win this argument if that is your goal. Give it up. Show some initiative and look some of these things up for yourself. You probably wont because it differs from your current perspective of things. I never said there was no God or Gods, they may exist or they may not exist. But too many religious people confuse faith with fact. You have faith that there's a god...Let's leave it at that.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
There are a lot views which christians don't share. There are many different interpretations. That's my whole point. It is impossible to know, with certainty, that which many religious people claim to know.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
Genesis 1 says that the earth was created on the first day of creation (Genesis 1:15). From there, we can begin calculations of the age of the earth.
Adam was created on Day 6, so there were 5 days before him. If we add up the dates from Adam to Abraham, we get about 2,000 years, using the Masoretic Hebrew text of Genesis 5 and 11. Whether Christian or secular, most scholars would agree that Abraham lived about 2,000 B.C. (4,000 years ago). 2000 yrs. + 4000 yrs. + 5 days = 6000 yrs 5 days
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
yes that is the beginning of time but God is bigger than time and the end time prophecies say that he will recreate the world what makes us think he hasnt done it before
notmyusername99999 2 years ago
And if you lived in a different part of the world you'd likely subscribe to seperate Gods, ideas & religious texts. So, who's right? Is it an amalgam of them all? Or is it all superstition? These are questions that no human has the answers to.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
yes and the bible says its not our job to question God but our purpose is to worship him in everything we do. and because we have the knowledge of what is good and what is evil it is also or calling to deliver Gods message of love to everyone who is deceived by pride.
notmyusername99999 2 years ago
In saying that, you assume that your god is the right one and that you are enlightened as to what his or her message is. How can you know? In my opinion, nobody truly knows. Why worship something if we're not sure that it even exists? Isn't being a kind, thoughtful person enough?
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
bro his message is not the mystery. his message is love. unconditional love for everyone. the mystery is how He could love us unconditionally. that is why the people who belive in him without seeing(faith) can live out this life in peace and joy in all their situations.
notmyusername99999 2 years ago
The mystery is why religious people think that they know more than every other person on earth. They read or heard of this information through a holy book, which may or may not be true. Let's not pretend that either of us knows what awaits us after death. It's impossible to know. Also, I've met many religious people who were neither peaceful or joyous. So, I'll have to disagree with you on that point.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
no man can be made secure by wickedness, but the root of those who are good is immovable. whoever loves to be instructed also loves knowledge, but those who cant stand to be taught are stupid.
notmyusername99999 2 years ago
People should learn but they should learn things that can be proven. I believe that those who believe anything they're told, without question, are stupid. You should challenge the things you are taught. The most intelligent people are often the most inquisitive. Also, religion has nothing to do with whether you're a good person or not. I'm confident that even the pope would agree with that statement.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
then question why you dont belive in Jesus. and i will do my best to answer all your questions.
notmyusername99999 2 years ago
I think that morality is important but I don't feel that a belief in god is necessary to be a good person. To each his own, I guess.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
you are right there, but eternal life can not be gained by works alone. the bible says that Jesus is the only way to get to the Father(God) i was a addict bro. i was high for three years straight. i was selling and fighting and lying and hiding, but when it was all gone, like it will someday be, i had nothing.
notmyusername99999 2 years ago
i was completly broken and had nowhere to go. thats what it takes to accept salvation through Jesus. You finally have to understand that you may be able to survive this physical life, but if you really what to do more than just survive then you have to accept the promises in Gods word that he loves you and wants you. that he will never leave you or forsake you. that he esteems those, who belive without seeing ,higher than the angels because of our faith in what we do not see. Jesus loves YOU bro
notmyusername99999 2 years ago
Well, if simple kindness doesn't secure you a place in "heaven" then that is not a religion that I'd like to be a part of. So, all of the jews, muslims and hindus in the world, who've been decent human beings, will automatically be sent to hell simply because they didn't acknowledge the existence of christ?! That doesn't seem right to me.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
kindness can be manifested in any person or peoples, but the truly righteous also manifest love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, FAITH, gentleness, and self-control. there can be no laws or rules against these things, but the works of the unrighteous are as follows:idolatry, rebellion, hatred, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfishness, dissensions, factions, envy, intoxication, and carousing.
notmyusername99999 2 years ago
There's no laws or rules against self control? I guess rape & violence are legal then, huh? Lol. And I'd consider Jesus to be a rebel. A lot of the greatest people in history were rebels. Rebellion is important to bring about positive change. Unrighteous? I don't think so. Nearly all of the traits you mentioned are emotions that are experienced by EVERYONE on earth. This is a way of making people feel guilty for their supposed "sins".
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
no one can pass a law against a person exhibiting self-control, and Jesus was a rebel to the current ideologies not to His authority. the fact that everyone feels or exhibits all the fruits of the flesh means that we all are equally human, but also that we all have a equal opportunity to strive for a perfected strength in those areas that pertain to us. the difference between a saint and a sinner is not that a saint does not sin but that his sin is means for instruction and growth.
notmyusername99999 2 years ago
I have understood everything you've typed. I simply disagree with it. Radiometric dating proves the earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old. Look it up if you want to. The bible claims it is only slightly more than 6000 years old.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
There is little valid evidence of almost anything in the bible. Your willing to deny evidence in order to keep your beliefs which is what religions are designed to do. My arguments are valid, yours haven't been yet. Except it.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
Well, one example of it being false would be according to the bible the earth is less than 7000 years old. Science has determined it's about 4.6 billion years old. That's a pretty big gap wouldn't you say? And as for the revisions: hell wasn't even introduced into the story until the new testament.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
I'm not contradicting myself. I base my conclusions on evidence. The Bible was written over hundreds of years by many different people and has been revised countless times. How can it be accurate if it's been revised? Also modern science has proven much of the bible (or any holy book for that matter) to be false and impossible. It's a collection of stories that served as moral guidelines for a much more primitive time. It's time to move on.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
In theory, ANYTHING could exist. That's not the way proof works. You prove that something DOES exist and you have no proof that god exists. I'm not even saying that there is no god, I'm simply stating that there's no evidence of it. And if there are any gods they're DEFINITELY not the gods of any holy books.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
Even if there is one real truth, for instance: there has never been any proof of god, you are rarely going to convince someone with faith otherwise. That's where the "grey" comes in. Facts have no influence upon some people. And things which I consider to be facts they would probably consider to be false. These examples further prove chopra's point.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
that guy in the black shirt is the biggest twat i have ever seen in my life.
yakattack320 2 years ago
...most of them are wearing black shirts...
Alloflifedecays 2 years ago
danny, the truth is everyone has their own interpretation of true, false, right and wrong and it's not easy to sway a person from their perspective in life. It's a grey world. There's very little that exists within the borders of black and white.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
Pastor Mark Driscoll and Annie Lobert does not give evidence to their argument. They just go by personal experience and just saying it is that way. It become pointless to talk to them about it.
feinburgrl 2 years ago
No. My saying that discernment is a gift and that only those that know Jesus Christ for the pardoning of their sins can recieve it is a conviction of my faith. Agree or disagree it doesn't change the truth.
christianpreachr 2 years ago
No, it takes a true believer who speaks to God to know that He declares His Word to be good and that He being in control does not decieve us by giving us a book that is flawd. God is just big enough that His Words dont fail. Discernment is a gift, but so is faith. Faith is knowing that the bible as it is currently is what God wants us to have.
christianpreachr 2 years ago
Why talk about the misguided people on the panel? The only one with any sense was Chopra.
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
AMEN!..............lol.
sirTittytwister 2 years ago
needs moar atheist
slowloadr 2 years ago
The bishop doesn't believe the bible is truth, so basically he is saying that what is recorded in it, is not accurate. I wonder if he thinks Jesus died for us on the cross, or if that is inaccurate too? (This guy is slippery.)
clubsoda69 2 years ago
Sad but true. He once was the greatest of us. Since he began preaching this Gospel of Inclusion mess we have left him to his dillusion. Yes, that slippery, pimp/car salesman is an amazing orator. It made him a good preacher, and now makes him walk alone.
christianpreachr 2 years ago
why do the people keep clapping for the dumbass?
jvilla21 2 years ago
Ok, Kids. Read the bible. There were a whole bunch of strange laws in the old testament that were nullified when Christ died on the cross, creating a new covenant between God and man. That's why we can eat pigs now. That's why we don't stone people. Hey, what do you know?! Another reason to appreciate Christ's sacrifice!
rsavoy1rsavoy1 2 years ago
... actually yes, and I'll tell you why, because the Bible is a several thousand year old document.
The Bible has things that say "does not nature show us that if a man has long hair it is a shame unto him" (Didn't manly Jesus have long hair, according to almost every Christian's image of him?)
It also says we should stone disobedient children, and shun women during their menstruation, and not marry outside of our religion
charr05 2 years ago
the Bible doesn't say a lot of the bullshit that Mr. Mars Hill is preaching but here we are listening to him... so maybe he should shut up about the hoofed image thing
charr05 2 years ago
The white dude and the chick probably believe in santa clause as well.
MackleJack 2 years ago
i like this black guy, i guess he signed up to support the atheist side of the debate then?
aezeon 2 years ago
Why does the audience loudly cheer and clap whenever the two Christians on the left side of the stage (the audience's left) make their points? Is it just me, or or are most of the people in that audience fundamentalist Christians (though they did cheer for a point made by Deepak Chopra, so that adds a twist to everything. Mabye the audience is half non-Evangelical, half Evangelical).
PartIrishKevo 2 years ago
The event was held at Mars Hill Church. So ther may well be a audience bias.
Or the points are just valid?
LordsWarrior32 2 years ago
Praise God for speaking through Mark Driscoll on this secular stage.
nickylouse2 2 years ago 6
what wrong with you, are you that crazy?
bettypages 2 years ago
I appreciate this debate because there is no name calling or at least as far as I have seen. I think we should follow that example. Let's not call people names.
brokeNpsalm51 2 years ago 4
I wouldn't call a church a 'secular stage'...
chessdawgz 2 years ago
They are all fairy tales; including the god fairy tale.
DustyMay1944 2 years ago
you can not pick and choose from the Bible, either you believe all of it or none of it, no exceptions. this "bishop" who calls himself a christian, is not a true believer. its frustrating to hear that he calls himself a christian when a true Christ follower aka a christian is to believe the entire Bible. God didn't say we have the right to pick and choose. We are called to accept the ENTIRE Bible!
ducksandquackers 2 years ago
Do you honestly think stoning rebellious children or stick-gatherers on Sabbath is appropriate?
chessdawgz 2 years ago
ducks, who gave you the knowledge to define who is and is not a "true christian"? You must not have read the bible very closely because, as a lot of people have pointed out before me, every religious person chooses to adhere to the sections of the bible that directly pertain to their beliefs as a person. Many parts were poorly concieved and outright cruel. (The stoning of unruly women and children) Or is that a hobby of yours too?
waywardwatchdog1 2 years ago
All denominations pick & choose what they want to believe & follow out of the bible. The only difference is that Carlton Pearson admits to picking & choosing and I think he gave a good reason why he does that.
gracerules2008 2 years ago