OK, so you don't believe the Bible is true; you have lots of company. But if I believed everything that books say, that means I'd also have to believe "Mein Kampf" and "Origin of Species" as well, which I don't. So my belief must have some other source then.
Sorry, I posted too soon. What i meant to say is that, as an angry Atheist, Hitchens has closed his understanding to how people of faith think and why they believe in and serve God. Because of thbis, he falls back on comparisons to historical tyrants. I understand and sympathize with the reasons both you and Hitchens might have for your unbelief, but I'm not going to resort to name-calling because of it. All I ask for is that you extend the same courtesy to me and my fellow believers.
This may not change your mind, but I'd like to reply to your statements by .Christopher Hitchens is an angry atheist who, by choosing not to believe in God, has intellectually disabled himself from trying to understand those who do, and so has to fall back on comparisions to earthly
@bluesow The only thing more annoying than an insecure narcissist is that narcissist's sycophant. If God is, as Hitchens put it, a celestial Kim Jong Il, then you're one of his propaganda agents, going on about how "North Korea is the best place in the world! Dear Leader is the wisest and greatest and strongest and most awesome man alive, and his father Great Leader was the wisest and strongest and greatest and most most magically awe-inspiring human being who ever lived!"
After watching this movie so many times, I have a feeling the creators took a LOT of LSD while making it. Because seriously, this movie is insane, and still amazing, and so much better than that piece of shit remake.
God made sex, and all He made was good. The sin is not in sex, but worshipping it to the exclusion of the God that made it. God is the source of all Life, not sex. This from a frigid, boring Christian. BTW, Christians love life, we just know Who made it.
Gosh, you're so right. I guess all I need are a bunch of brain-dead followers then being an attention whore won't be such a bad thing, will it? I'll be elevated to a holy being. First Commandment: Thou shall replace the toilet tissue roll upon using the last to wipeth your ass.
Yet, you continue to respond to me. Does someone have a crush? Ooo I bet you liked my comment about wiping one's ass. Is that your thing? It's pretty hot. I'll try anything once.
If this gives you happiness and does not harm others, I grant you full freedom of religion and support your right to worship as you see fit. However, you must understand that for outsiders, it is very difficult to understand where you are coming from...particularly worshipping an unholy deity while explicitly admitting the existence of Yahweh.
I also grant people the right to follow whatever religion they wish. It appears from what you have described that your religion is an eclectic blend of Christian, Celtic, Germanic and other traditions and rituals (and a great dollop of modern humanism) and that you have somehow placed Satan, the Christian God of Evil (whom you yourself describe in your profile page as "Dark Lord" and "unholy"), at the head of this religion which you call a "religion of celebration".
Satan is merely the Christian God of Evil. Satan has no greater relevance to Pagans than Mohammed...and thus Satan has no relevance to maypole dancing.
Menstruation is for women only and thus certain rituals connected with menstruation are for women only. It just so happens that the maypole dance was originally for men only. Yes, reproduction requires the input of both male and female...but different input. There is greater wisdom out there than one mortal's opinion.
Although not strictly correct, I prefer the maypole dance to be performed by both boys and girls, of all ages. It works toward full community participation. Frankly, I hardly think it will be easy to a group of men to get together and dance and the men are more likely to dance with women present. Nevertheless, the female fertility dance should remain the exclusive domain of fecund women without the distracting presence of men.
When performed by our Pagan forbears, it was originally only boys who danced. The film portrays it correctly, as it does only women dancing and jumping through the fire in a fertility ritual. Later, later the maypole dance was performed by both boys and girls, alternating. Most recently, with the association of dance being a female pursuit, maypole dancing has been done only by groups of girls.
@ranamuhammadatif I think the scariness stems from the fact that these people are relatively "normal", even by Sgt Howie's bigoted standards. Normal....but not. That is very unsettling.
The song was written specifically for the movie, The Wicker Man. Despite its very recent secular origins, many Neo-Pagans have chosen to use it in their ceremonies, both May Day and Beltaine (also despite the fact that the maypole is Germanic and has not connection with the Celtic holiday of Beltaine).
It is a pity that such dancing has died out. But, with the growing resurgence of reconstructionist Paganism, we may soon witness its rebirth. The Wicker Mas was just a shadow of things that may come or are to come. Hopefully, people like you, who actually danced it in their youth, will be around to teach the youth.
@pupsenok Actually, with the exception of the holocaust at the end, I could easily live in a society like this.
btw, did you see the unspeakably awful "remake" of this brilliant film? *gag, retch* I will never understand why some wankers think they can improve on a classic, and then mess it up so badly.
It is not an entirely accurate representation of Pagan life.
Although sexual mores were loser, it was not random promiscuity in Pagan society. People still had feelings of loyalty, fidelity and betrayal in sexual relationships. Equally, human sacrifices, if any as they were not universal, would have been of criminals convicted to die for heinous crime. Something that we still do nowadays as a purely mechanical punishment.
@pupsenok When you say "Pagan"- what do you mean? The old religions had zillions of gods and variations in worship. The Wicker man is "pagan" insofar as it incorporates fertility worship as its central theme- it matters not how they perform their rites. Actually, Christianity itself is a pagan, theophagic religion.
I confess that it is a somewhat nebulous term, but I am referring to the pre-Christian religions of the Indo-Europeans of the non-Classical world, such as the Celts (who formed the basis of the Paganism in The Wicker Man), the Germans, the Balts and the Slavs. Despite their differences, there were many similarities.
Baltic Perkunas and Slavic Perun and Germanic Thor (whose mother was Fjorgyn, the linguistic cognate of the former two) all represented the same redheaded thunder God with a hammer. There were not zillions of Gods, but a main pantheon with many lesser beings and of course, everything was endowed with its own spirit. The shared northern European climate gave a shared yearly cycle, with harvest and planting festivals.
Christianity is, by definition, not Pagan, although it has incorporated many Pagan elements in its spread across Europe. The theophagic element in Christianity is sui generis and not adopted from the Pagan faiths of Europe. It is based on the New Testament and was a very, very early practice.
In any event, The Wicker Man was based on Celtic beliefs, with the innocuous addition of the Germanic maypole. The writers of the film specifically stated they did such research.
@pupsenok No society is ever randomly promiscuous, and as primates, we to tend to pair bond and thus develop feelings of attachment and affection. Human sacrifices vary in victims and reasons- those which sacrificed small children were dealing with small problems. Disasters required the gift of mass slaughter, or even the king himself. I think that Howie was right- that the islanders would indeed sacrifice Lord Summerisle when the next crop failed. I think Summerisle knew this, and was afraid
There is no evidence in Northern Europe for human sacrifices of small children or of mass slaughter as a common or general practice. That is just propaganda from Romans or Christians not borne out by the archaeological record nor the myths and legends of the people themselves. The Aztec, on the other hand, were infamous for such activity, and the archaeological record supports that.
@pupsenok I was not referring specifically to Europeans but to human sacrifices anywhere. I always laugh when Christians carry on about human sacrifices, seeing that their own religion is based on that very practice- the sacrifice of a god-man
@pupsenok In the film, he's afraid, but quickly hides it. Howie says:, "Your people will burn YOU next May Day!" Summerisle responds: "They will NOT....fail!"- quickly referring to the sacrifices, rather than his people. The book refers to Howie's "prophecy" of this, so I interpret it that it did happen. Summerisle intrigues me- why isn;t he married with his own brood? As he was High Priest of a fertility religion, I find this extraordinary. He probably had a few bastards scattered around.
@pupsenok He had Miss Rose as a mistress, but didn't seem to have had kids. Would the islanders interpret this as a "reason" for their crops failing- if their own leader hadn't reproduced? Just a thought.
A leader's fecundity was often tied to the fertility of the land. There is considerable and cogent reason to believe that leaders even had to copulate in front of his massed followers, probably before the sowing season. (Probably this would have been too much to ask of Christopher Lee merely in the name of cinema.) Clearly, something is not right. But, it is difficult to put ourselves in the Pagan mindset without living and breathing it throughout a lifetime.
@pupsenok Why would this have been a problem for Christopher Lee? Was he inhibited? Personally, I am glad that we don't have to rely on superstition to grow food.
I am very doubtful he would simply copulate on screen with a stranger. I point out that his filmography is notably lacking in the pornographic genre.
Perhaps we do not have to rely on superstition to grow food. But, we do have to rely on something even less predictable...the weather: sun, rain, warmth, unexpected blight or other disease. Whether we venerate it or not, the sun is still the sustainer of all life here on earth and nature is beyond our control...
@pupsenok He wouldn't have to actually do it- he only had to act it, like they all do. Just a thought- was Lord Summerisle getting ready to be a sacrifice, because he wasn't able to reproduce? Was Howie the substitute he hoped would bring fecundity and thus let him off the hook.? Yes, it makes sense to respect the sun for its power, of course. All life depends on it. How do neo-pagans cope with crop failure- do they blame themselves or the gods who hadn't answered their prayers?
If the choice is to blame the Gods or to blame oneself, the answer is obvious. One does not blame the Gods. One thanks the Gods for their assistance and propitiates them for their further assistance. People, on the other hand, may be proud of their achievements and blame themselves for their failures.
This is very different from Christianity. All good and success comes from Yahweh. All failure and evil come from Satan. All people have to do is believe in Jesus.
@pupsenok Jesus is Horus - the sun god personified. Early christians knew this, why early occult art (Christian) had Jesus with his head on the Sun, because jesus is not the son of god, but the sun god. All Christian religion is a parody of pagan worship of the sun, in which they put a man called Jesus in place of the Sun god Horus. Xmas is a pagan tradition of the death of the sun, lowest point in the sky (winter solstice) appears to die - the sun dies, then is resurected when it comes back.
@ORALORALSEX I like your username, you say several things wrong with my statement but you don't convince me with your statement. Jesus has & had his head on the sun/cross because Jesus is the sun god personified. Just check out some early art, don't take my word for it. Constantine made christianity acceptable but Christ was never born, it has only been written about, it's a story, an adaptation from ancient babylonian ba'al & egyptian astrological myths. Where ALL religions come from, the Sun.
A considerable amount of bad press that the Pagans received was due to the Romans conquest of Gaul (and Caesar's biased account) and the later universal policy of lying done by the Christian clergy in support of Christianity. Be that as it may, I could also have lived in the society portrayed in the film and even more so in a real Pagan society. It was not perfect, but I could have been happy.
@pupsenok Again, what do you mean by "perfect"? A very arbitrary and subjective term. All conquerors have to lie about the people they crush- how else can they persuade their own people to agree to the atrocities done in their name?
I would have thought my sentiment was fairly clear. The societies of the Pagans were not "perfect". It was not a utopia. Nevertheless, I could have been happy in such a society. What do you not understand about my comment that the societies were not perfect?
@pupsenok You used the word, so I ask how you define it. Perfect, by whose standards? Personally, I would love to live in such a society, but draw the line at being attended by a doctor who carries live vipers on his visits.
So, you also see the society as not perfect, given the medical treatments. You also expressed some discomfort over the holocaust at the end of the film. So, by whose standards is it not perfect? Well by my standards and by yours as well.
@pupsenok I think it's such a nebulous term, anyway. Nearest I ever came to an" idyllic" society was Norfolk Island, but even NI would have its dark undercurrents, all human societies do, and in fact cannot survive without them. Summerisle appeals to me because it's very community-oriented, beautiful scenery, no machinery, and a benign ruler who doesn't care what his people do as long as the work is done. No Hellfire preachers also make it attractive.
I meant a real Pagan society as opposed to a reconstructed one. The real Pagan societies were those that were being lived by everyday people in Europe prior to the coming of Christianity.
Yes, I saw the remake. The film was originally about the conflict of the Christian world-view and the Pagan world-view. Neither side was particularly good or evil...although the Pagan side came up somewhat more evil than the stuffy, restrictive and bossy Christian side. The remake removed the entire purpose of the movie altogether. The Christian element was gone and the Pagans were simply lunatics...without even the element of the maypole.
@pupsenok The book is even better than the film. I don't think the Pagans came across as evil at all-as agricultural islanders, whose very existence depended on their crops- what choice did they have? I see it as a lesson not to place any trust in any deity, because they do not exist and therefore cannot hear your pleas and tears. Lord Summerisle's people had been badly let down by their deities, and in the end, Jesus didn't life a finger to help his devotee, the uptight, intolerant Howie.
So, you see it as an antitheistic film against both Pagans and Christians. That is a very credible interpretation.
Be that as it may, I still see value in the Pagan celebration of the seasons and the direct contact with nature and its forces. I will thank the Gods for a harvest, but I will still do all the work necessary myself to ensure a bountiful harvest.
@pupsenok As both sides were betrayed by their gods, it does seem to be the message. I see Nature as basically benign, but unconcerned with us. Gods are the same. If any divine hand had ever reached out to save innocent defenceless women from a terrible death at the stake, well, I'd say that the deities care. But no such thing ever happened. They were roasted alive in their tens of thousands, and whatever Gods exist, they didn't seem to care a damn about it.
@pupsenok The remake is so awful that it's funny- and, given Cage's cowardly, unprofessional and repeated assaults on females, it should have been titled: "The Woman Bashing Man".
Well, that is another problem with the remake. Northern European Pagans, including the Celts, were more or less egalitarian, and in the remake, the society was clearly run by angry, twisted and deceptive females. For his part, Cage was fighting the evil Pagan authorities, which happened to be female. Be that as it may, I am no fan of hitting women and young girls and his violent actions truly justified the breaking of his legs.
@wintersprings22 sex then seeds then a baby then a man then a grave and from that grave there grew a tree, and on the tree their was a limb were there is a nest with an egg and then a bird from the bird there is a feather out of which they make a bed and on that bed there is a girl, the man then ......you know ;)
When I was in elementary school my music teacher played that song and had us do the may pole dance. Now realizing it was some kind of pagan ritual really creeps me out.
I went to Scotland a couple of weeks ago and visited this location. Without the maypole of course, it is nearly exactly the same nearly 40 years on. I feel proud of the fact I got to walk around and see it in the flesh.
This film was so scary the songs were more scary I actually chucked out the dvd after i watched it havent seen it since untiol a couopple of days ago someone sed they saw the new version but u cant beat the oldies iv got over the phobia now
I don't know if we're on the same wavelength here but I've always wondered if they stand around for ages on set waiting for the sun to come out for filming. I hope I haven't ruined the mood!
Might be looking into this a bit much but does anyone else think its a bit odd the way it is a "girl" and a "man" not a girl and boy or man and woman.
Easily one of the most unnerving scenes in the entire movie, and one of the first time we get a TRUE glimpse at exactly how wrong everything is at that place.
@Eshbaal There's nothing wrong on Summerisle. According to their most sacred beliefs, what they're doing will save the lives of everyone on the island from starvation. Judge not and all that.
at about 0.48 it crosses the line from hilarious to fucking creepy. i don't think they sacrificed humans in greek paganism, while the various crusades and wars of christianity could be seen as mass human sacrifice similar to aztec rites. of course that would beg the question of the trojan war.
i happen to be a scottish school teacher and we have a maypole and I always think of this when we do dancing! theres not actually much of a tradtition of maypoling in scotland, mostly england, scandinavia and germany. great movie!
aye i did mean to answer you. i was just pointing out an interesting narrative in the film where the origins of the 'return' to pagan ideals are explained. They are an invention so therefore like all modernist attempts at a 'return' they are a fiction and not a tradition. Your right though its a great film. One of a kind.
Perhaps, but at least in the Pagan Religion as presented in this film advocates the veneration of Nature and the Celebration of Life. Although I am a Setian, I think that the neo Pagans of today venerate Life better than that murderous blasphemy known to me as Christianity. I refer you to Rossel Hope Robbins' book: "THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF WITCHCRAFT AND DEMONOLOGY". Although Mr. Robbins said there are no witches, he was countered by Sybil Leek with: "Oh yes there are" during one of his speeches.
I think you have to respect the psychological underpinnings of ideology, and destructive behaviors.
Historical Christians were horribly abused by their parents, resulting in a cult that believed that God (the parental projection) wanted his Son to suffer horribly for salvation (restoration of parental love).
Considering the accusations of Druidic human sacrifice, it seems that child abuse was prevalent in that culture as well.
I used to be a born again christer. I have no respect for that cult of mass murder.I have more respect for Druids and Aztecs. I will also say that if Christians believe that Jesus is God and it was this god that got the virgin mary pregnant, then this story has some incestuous overtones. Some Jews think that JC was a sorcerer. If true, what's to prevent me from thinking that JC used his demonic powers? Was it Beelzebub? I won't respond to a christer henceforth for there is mutual disrespect.
No, I am not accusing you of being a christer. You are too smart for that nonsense. I agreed with you. Most comments, blasphemous as they were, were meant to annoy a born againite jeezoid.
This film should never have been re-made, and certainly NOT with Nicholas Cage, its remade for the American market. Cage will burn in hell for his sins!
I adore this movie (or at least the full version), it works on so many levels, at first, its a decent tale, well made, with great music, and it does a great job on Pagan/Christian conflict. The cop is a Christian Bigot, and it makes the point that it is irrational, and the Pagan religion is more rational, yet, in the end, the Christian is the one trying to do something good, while the fanatical Pagans are off committing human sacrifice. This, Gently Jonny, and Willows song are great music too.
@dietcokecan94 - Oh yes and I made the mistake of actually watching the one with Nicholas Cage and I had to keep saying to myself: "you knew this was going to be shit" over and over just to keep my peace and not scream at the box - the "box" being the TV because there was no way in hell I'd go to the cinema for THAT. All of the intense scenes in the original were completely flushed down the pan on that one. It was disturbing in its crappiness.
my mom used to sing this song around the house with my and my sister when we were younger..
gooshgooshification 4 weeks ago
How the hell did I get here from Iron Maiden?
undecidedfate1 1 month ago 5
@undecidedfate1 Maybe because they did a song called the Wicker Man?
Satantransvertdeath 1 month ago
this song strangely sends me into a peagan trance
Acoyo 2 months ago
I love the way this song is incredibly catchy whilst being utter dogshit.
owlzowlz 2 months ago
Spiritually I would believe humans have more of a connection to nature than to a man in the sky
HighDrummer1 4 months ago in playlist HighDrummer1's favourites
is that the late sir alan clarke singing the lead here? childrens tv was never as good as this,.
simonbath 5 months ago
Comment removed
dminalba 2 months ago
@simonbath Nope it's Walter Carr best known as Dougie the first mate in The Vital Spark
dminalba 2 months ago
I just noticed that those kids are making humping motions at the start of the song, a little young for the may pole hmm?
HocicoVulpes 5 months ago
The original film was the best. I did not like the remake.
silverstartrucker 7 months ago 2
k at least we know wat school dobby went to
goombamario1 7 months ago
What a delightful little way of teaching the birds and the bees!
bezerkerbitch73 8 months ago 4
My all time favourite film, bar none! Jesus my fucking arse!!!!
yorkie6687 9 months ago 3
worst film! but tuneeee!
MultiMelissa10 9 months ago
birdablaze,
OK, so you don't believe the Bible is true; you have lots of company. But if I believed everything that books say, that means I'd also have to believe "Mein Kampf" and "Origin of Species" as well, which I don't. So my belief must have some other source then.
bluesow 10 months ago
Does anybody happen to know the name of the guy playing the Jews Harp in the beginning?
sixstringwizard06 10 months ago
Sorry, I posted too soon. What i meant to say is that, as an angry Atheist, Hitchens has closed his understanding to how people of faith think and why they believe in and serve God. Because of thbis, he falls back on comparisons to historical tyrants. I understand and sympathize with the reasons both you and Hitchens might have for your unbelief, but I'm not going to resort to name-calling because of it. All I ask for is that you extend the same courtesy to me and my fellow believers.
bluesow 10 months ago
yerk3
This may not change your mind, but I'd like to reply to your statements by .Christopher Hitchens is an angry atheist who, by choosing not to believe in God, has intellectually disabled himself from trying to understand those who do, and so has to fall back on comparisions to earthly
bluesow 10 months ago
In the Summerisle,
Summerisle, Summerisle, Summerisle wood
Summerisle wood.
righttokill13 11 months ago
hehë_i_fêel_sÖ_lÖñélÿ_toDÅÿ
BabyiKarenij800 11 months ago
I'd hit that.
FirstToAttackDotCom 11 months ago
AllaboutLOVEatYuToob,
Thank you for your kindness.
bluesow 11 months ago
Jcolinsol,
I know other folks on this thread may not believe He is, but I do with all my heart.
bluesow 11 months ago
birdablaze,
Romans 1:18-32
He IS the center of attention because he's the only Center there is. I hope you come to understand this. Peace.
bluesow 1 year ago
Comment removed
AllAboutLOVEatYuToob 11 months ago
@bluesow The only thing more annoying than an insecure narcissist is that narcissist's sycophant. If God is, as Hitchens put it, a celestial Kim Jong Il, then you're one of his propaganda agents, going on about how "North Korea is the best place in the world! Dear Leader is the wisest and greatest and strongest and most awesome man alive, and his father Great Leader was the wisest and strongest and greatest and most most magically awe-inspiring human being who ever lived!"
yerk3 10 months ago
@bluesow
Shit, if it's in a book then it must be true! You should have said this in the first place then I'd have no way to disagree.
birdablaze 10 months ago
After watching this movie so many times, I have a feeling the creators took a LOT of LSD while making it. Because seriously, this movie is insane, and still amazing, and so much better than that piece of shit remake.
GodsBittersweetEmo 1 year ago
@GodsBittersweetEmo I think they did more reading then tripping, it's unbelievable how many information is in the film.
TheRacistsMustDie 1 year ago 16
BIG CHOON!!!!!
misslisk 1 year ago
a horror musical.....?
Ichigo9913 1 year ago
@Ichigo9913 The best kind.
Videot01 1 year ago
God made sex, and all He made was good. The sin is not in sex, but worshipping it to the exclusion of the God that made it. God is the source of all Life, not sex. This from a frigid, boring Christian. BTW, Christians love life, we just know Who made it.
bluesow 1 year ago
@bluesow
God seems like a pissy little bitch who hates it when He's not the center of attention.
birdablaze 1 year ago 25
@birdablaze Judging from your comment "God" isn't the only one. Just saying.
TheSnowballEarth 10 months ago
@TheSnowballEarth
Gosh, you're so right. I guess all I need are a bunch of brain-dead followers then being an attention whore won't be such a bad thing, will it? I'll be elevated to a holy being. First Commandment: Thou shall replace the toilet tissue roll upon using the last to wipeth your ass.
birdablaze 10 months ago
@birdablaze "Thou shall replace the toilet tissue roll upon using the last to wipeth your ass."
Was that from tonight's episode of "Non-Sequitor Theatre?"
TheSnowballEarth 10 months ago
@TheSnowballEarth
Shucks, you don't think I'm funny. :(
birdablaze 10 months ago
@birdablaze No, I think you're a bore.
TheSnowballEarth 10 months ago
@TheSnowballEarth
Yet, you continue to respond to me. Does someone have a crush? Ooo I bet you liked my comment about wiping one's ass. Is that your thing? It's pretty hot. I'll try anything once.
birdablaze 10 months ago
@bluesow
Is the God of the bible the creator?
Jcolinsol 11 months ago
@Jcolinsol
Yes,he created the heavens and the earth :-)
AllAboutLOVEatYuToob 11 months ago
How many people here feel the music was the most unnerving part of the film?
ConnDevi88 1 year ago
haha the songs are retarded xD
kyleandchristian 1 year ago
Sadly, the prettiest girl in the classroom is at the far left and at the back and thus is barely visible. Sigh.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@SatanRulezGod
If this gives you happiness and does not harm others, I grant you full freedom of religion and support your right to worship as you see fit. However, you must understand that for outsiders, it is very difficult to understand where you are coming from...particularly worshipping an unholy deity while explicitly admitting the existence of Yahweh.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@SatanRulezGod
I also grant people the right to follow whatever religion they wish. It appears from what you have described that your religion is an eclectic blend of Christian, Celtic, Germanic and other traditions and rituals (and a great dollop of modern humanism) and that you have somehow placed Satan, the Christian God of Evil (whom you yourself describe in your profile page as "Dark Lord" and "unholy"), at the head of this religion which you call a "religion of celebration".
pupsenok 1 year ago
@SatanRulezGod
Satan is merely the Christian God of Evil. Satan has no greater relevance to Pagans than Mohammed...and thus Satan has no relevance to maypole dancing.
Menstruation is for women only and thus certain rituals connected with menstruation are for women only. It just so happens that the maypole dance was originally for men only. Yes, reproduction requires the input of both male and female...but different input. There is greater wisdom out there than one mortal's opinion.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@SatanRulezGod
Although not strictly correct, I prefer the maypole dance to be performed by both boys and girls, of all ages. It works toward full community participation. Frankly, I hardly think it will be easy to a group of men to get together and dance and the men are more likely to dance with women present. Nevertheless, the female fertility dance should remain the exclusive domain of fecund women without the distracting presence of men.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@SatanRulezGod
When performed by our Pagan forbears, it was originally only boys who danced. The film portrays it correctly, as it does only women dancing and jumping through the fire in a fertility ritual. Later, later the maypole dance was performed by both boys and girls, alternating. Most recently, with the association of dance being a female pursuit, maypole dancing has been done only by groups of girls.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@PixieAddams Calling it "awful" is a high compliment. It's unspeakable.
coralarch 1 year ago
God damn it!. It still scares the shit out of me. The new movie is an insult to this masterpiece
ranamuhammadatif 1 year ago
@ranamuhammadatif I think the scariness stems from the fact that these people are relatively "normal", even by Sgt Howie's bigoted standards. Normal....but not. That is very unsettling.
coralarch 1 year ago
All that pelvic thrusting and flagella-like wiggling of streamers is a little disturbing.
MitchMb14 1 year ago
this movie confused me...what are they singing about
wintersprings22 1 year ago
@wintersprings22 It's an old folk tune celebrating fertility.
coralarch 1 year ago
@coralarch
The song was written specifically for the movie, The Wicker Man. Despite its very recent secular origins, many Neo-Pagans have chosen to use it in their ceremonies, both May Day and Beltaine (also despite the fact that the maypole is Germanic and has not connection with the Celtic holiday of Beltaine).
pupsenok 1 year ago
@pupsenok Thanks for that. I remember dancing around maypoles 50 years ago, but they seem to have died out, unfortunately.
coralarch 1 year ago
@coralarch
It is a pity that such dancing has died out. But, with the growing resurgence of reconstructionist Paganism, we may soon witness its rebirth. The Wicker Mas was just a shadow of things that may come or are to come. Hopefully, people like you, who actually danced it in their youth, will be around to teach the youth.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@pupsenok Actually, with the exception of the holocaust at the end, I could easily live in a society like this.
btw, did you see the unspeakably awful "remake" of this brilliant film? *gag, retch* I will never understand why some wankers think they can improve on a classic, and then mess it up so badly.
coralarch 1 year ago
@coralarch
It is not an entirely accurate representation of Pagan life.
Although sexual mores were loser, it was not random promiscuity in Pagan society. People still had feelings of loyalty, fidelity and betrayal in sexual relationships. Equally, human sacrifices, if any as they were not universal, would have been of criminals convicted to die for heinous crime. Something that we still do nowadays as a purely mechanical punishment.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@pupsenok When you say "Pagan"- what do you mean? The old religions had zillions of gods and variations in worship. The Wicker man is "pagan" insofar as it incorporates fertility worship as its central theme- it matters not how they perform their rites. Actually, Christianity itself is a pagan, theophagic religion.
coralarch 1 year ago
@coralarch
I confess that it is a somewhat nebulous term, but I am referring to the pre-Christian religions of the Indo-Europeans of the non-Classical world, such as the Celts (who formed the basis of the Paganism in The Wicker Man), the Germans, the Balts and the Slavs. Despite their differences, there were many similarities.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@coralarch
Baltic Perkunas and Slavic Perun and Germanic Thor (whose mother was Fjorgyn, the linguistic cognate of the former two) all represented the same redheaded thunder God with a hammer. There were not zillions of Gods, but a main pantheon with many lesser beings and of course, everything was endowed with its own spirit. The shared northern European climate gave a shared yearly cycle, with harvest and planting festivals.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@coralarch
Christianity is, by definition, not Pagan, although it has incorporated many Pagan elements in its spread across Europe. The theophagic element in Christianity is sui generis and not adopted from the Pagan faiths of Europe. It is based on the New Testament and was a very, very early practice.
In any event, The Wicker Man was based on Celtic beliefs, with the innocuous addition of the Germanic maypole. The writers of the film specifically stated they did such research.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@pupsenok The basic story of the crucified god-man is an ancient one know to pagan societies for centuries before Jesus.
coralarch 1 year ago
@pupsenok No society is ever randomly promiscuous, and as primates, we to tend to pair bond and thus develop feelings of attachment and affection. Human sacrifices vary in victims and reasons- those which sacrificed small children were dealing with small problems. Disasters required the gift of mass slaughter, or even the king himself. I think that Howie was right- that the islanders would indeed sacrifice Lord Summerisle when the next crop failed. I think Summerisle knew this, and was afraid
coralarch 1 year ago
@coralarch
There is no evidence in Northern Europe for human sacrifices of small children or of mass slaughter as a common or general practice. That is just propaganda from Romans or Christians not borne out by the archaeological record nor the myths and legends of the people themselves. The Aztec, on the other hand, were infamous for such activity, and the archaeological record supports that.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@pupsenok I was not referring specifically to Europeans but to human sacrifices anywhere. I always laugh when Christians carry on about human sacrifices, seeing that their own religion is based on that very practice- the sacrifice of a god-man
Beeshitten 1 year ago
@coralarch
Even the Romans were more blood thirsty than the Pagans to the north, not to mention the Inquisition and witch burnings of the Christians.
As for Lord Summerisle, I also think he knew the precariousness of his own position, but I question whether or not he was afraid.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@pupsenok In the film, he's afraid, but quickly hides it. Howie says:, "Your people will burn YOU next May Day!" Summerisle responds: "They will NOT....fail!"- quickly referring to the sacrifices, rather than his people. The book refers to Howie's "prophecy" of this, so I interpret it that it did happen. Summerisle intrigues me- why isn;t he married with his own brood? As he was High Priest of a fertility religion, I find this extraordinary. He probably had a few bastards scattered around.
Beeshitten 1 year ago
@Beeshitten
Absolutely, as the High Priest of a fertility religion, he should have a wife and children. But, the film is not perfect.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@pupsenok He had Miss Rose as a mistress, but didn't seem to have had kids. Would the islanders interpret this as a "reason" for their crops failing- if their own leader hadn't reproduced? Just a thought.
Beeshitten 1 year ago
@Beeshitten
A leader's fecundity was often tied to the fertility of the land. There is considerable and cogent reason to believe that leaders even had to copulate in front of his massed followers, probably before the sowing season. (Probably this would have been too much to ask of Christopher Lee merely in the name of cinema.) Clearly, something is not right. But, it is difficult to put ourselves in the Pagan mindset without living and breathing it throughout a lifetime.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@pupsenok Why would this have been a problem for Christopher Lee? Was he inhibited? Personally, I am glad that we don't have to rely on superstition to grow food.
Beeshitten 1 year ago
@Beeshitten
I am very doubtful he would simply copulate on screen with a stranger. I point out that his filmography is notably lacking in the pornographic genre.
Perhaps we do not have to rely on superstition to grow food. But, we do have to rely on something even less predictable...the weather: sun, rain, warmth, unexpected blight or other disease. Whether we venerate it or not, the sun is still the sustainer of all life here on earth and nature is beyond our control...
pupsenok 1 year ago
@pupsenok He wouldn't have to actually do it- he only had to act it, like they all do. Just a thought- was Lord Summerisle getting ready to be a sacrifice, because he wasn't able to reproduce? Was Howie the substitute he hoped would bring fecundity and thus let him off the hook.? Yes, it makes sense to respect the sun for its power, of course. All life depends on it. How do neo-pagans cope with crop failure- do they blame themselves or the gods who hadn't answered their prayers?
Beeshitten 1 year ago
@Beeshitten
If the choice is to blame the Gods or to blame oneself, the answer is obvious. One does not blame the Gods. One thanks the Gods for their assistance and propitiates them for their further assistance. People, on the other hand, may be proud of their achievements and blame themselves for their failures.
This is very different from Christianity. All good and success comes from Yahweh. All failure and evil come from Satan. All people have to do is believe in Jesus.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@pupsenok How would you propitiate a god?
Beeshitten 1 year ago
@pupsenok Jesus is Horus - the sun god personified. Early christians knew this, why early occult art (Christian) had Jesus with his head on the Sun, because jesus is not the son of god, but the sun god. All Christian religion is a parody of pagan worship of the sun, in which they put a man called Jesus in place of the Sun god Horus. Xmas is a pagan tradition of the death of the sun, lowest point in the sky (winter solstice) appears to die - the sun dies, then is resurected when it comes back.
Elibobbob 1 year ago
@Elibobbob
There are several things wrong with your statement
1. Early Christian Art Didnt depict Jesus with a sun behind his head
or have the Endless pagan refrences These characteristics you link to Horus were developed by Constantine 300 years after Christs birth
2.Early Christians Had Much of There Gospels Removed from the Bible Because it made Jesus Appear
Human
ORALORALSEX 1 year ago
@ORALORALSEX I like your username, you say several things wrong with my statement but you don't convince me with your statement. Jesus has & had his head on the sun/cross because Jesus is the sun god personified. Just check out some early art, don't take my word for it. Constantine made christianity acceptable but Christ was never born, it has only been written about, it's a story, an adaptation from ancient babylonian ba'al & egyptian astrological myths. Where ALL religions come from, the Sun.
Elibobbob 1 year ago 2
@Elibobbob
I Study Art For A living ,So I have seen The Earliest Depictions Of Jesus From Africa to Palestine
And none Contain Pagan Refrences, Most show him without even a beard and long hair.
You Are Completely Right That Constantine Made Christianity Acceptable ,
But at The Cost Of Completely Intregrating Pagan And Acient Babylonian stories
Jesus Pre 300 was Just A Teacher , Philosopher , Brother
The Catholic Church changed all that .. and gave Him These Ancient Stories .
ORALORALSEX 1 year ago
@coralarch
A considerable amount of bad press that the Pagans received was due to the Romans conquest of Gaul (and Caesar's biased account) and the later universal policy of lying done by the Christian clergy in support of Christianity. Be that as it may, I could also have lived in the society portrayed in the film and even more so in a real Pagan society. It was not perfect, but I could have been happy.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@pupsenok Again, what do you mean by "perfect"? A very arbitrary and subjective term. All conquerors have to lie about the people they crush- how else can they persuade their own people to agree to the atrocities done in their name?
coralarch 1 year ago
@coralarch
I would have thought my sentiment was fairly clear. The societies of the Pagans were not "perfect". It was not a utopia. Nevertheless, I could have been happy in such a society. What do you not understand about my comment that the societies were not perfect?
pupsenok 1 year ago
@pupsenok You used the word, so I ask how you define it. Perfect, by whose standards? Personally, I would love to live in such a society, but draw the line at being attended by a doctor who carries live vipers on his visits.
coralarch 1 year ago
@coralarch
So, you also see the society as not perfect, given the medical treatments. You also expressed some discomfort over the holocaust at the end of the film. So, by whose standards is it not perfect? Well by my standards and by yours as well.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@pupsenok I think it's such a nebulous term, anyway. Nearest I ever came to an" idyllic" society was Norfolk Island, but even NI would have its dark undercurrents, all human societies do, and in fact cannot survive without them. Summerisle appeals to me because it's very community-oriented, beautiful scenery, no machinery, and a benign ruler who doesn't care what his people do as long as the work is done. No Hellfire preachers also make it attractive.
coralarch 1 year ago 2
@pupsenok How do you define "a real Pagan society"?
coralarch 1 year ago
@coralarch
I meant a real Pagan society as opposed to a reconstructed one. The real Pagan societies were those that were being lived by everyday people in Europe prior to the coming of Christianity.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@coralarch
Yes, I saw the remake. The film was originally about the conflict of the Christian world-view and the Pagan world-view. Neither side was particularly good or evil...although the Pagan side came up somewhat more evil than the stuffy, restrictive and bossy Christian side. The remake removed the entire purpose of the movie altogether. The Christian element was gone and the Pagans were simply lunatics...without even the element of the maypole.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@pupsenok The book is even better than the film. I don't think the Pagans came across as evil at all-as agricultural islanders, whose very existence depended on their crops- what choice did they have? I see it as a lesson not to place any trust in any deity, because they do not exist and therefore cannot hear your pleas and tears. Lord Summerisle's people had been badly let down by their deities, and in the end, Jesus didn't life a finger to help his devotee, the uptight, intolerant Howie.
coralarch 1 year ago
@coralarch
So, you see it as an antitheistic film against both Pagans and Christians. That is a very credible interpretation.
Be that as it may, I still see value in the Pagan celebration of the seasons and the direct contact with nature and its forces. I will thank the Gods for a harvest, but I will still do all the work necessary myself to ensure a bountiful harvest.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@pupsenok As both sides were betrayed by their gods, it does seem to be the message. I see Nature as basically benign, but unconcerned with us. Gods are the same. If any divine hand had ever reached out to save innocent defenceless women from a terrible death at the stake, well, I'd say that the deities care. But no such thing ever happened. They were roasted alive in their tens of thousands, and whatever Gods exist, they didn't seem to care a damn about it.
coralarch 1 year ago
@pupsenok The remake is so awful that it's funny- and, given Cage's cowardly, unprofessional and repeated assaults on females, it should have been titled: "The Woman Bashing Man".
coralarch 1 year ago
@coralarch
Well, that is another problem with the remake. Northern European Pagans, including the Celts, were more or less egalitarian, and in the remake, the society was clearly run by angry, twisted and deceptive females. For his part, Cage was fighting the evil Pagan authorities, which happened to be female. Be that as it may, I am no fan of hitting women and young girls and his violent actions truly justified the breaking of his legs.
pupsenok 1 year ago
@wintersprings22 sex then seeds then a baby then a man then a grave and from that grave there grew a tree, and on the tree their was a limb were there is a nest with an egg and then a bird from the bird there is a feather out of which they make a bed and on that bed there is a girl, the man then ......you know ;)
lsdvine 1 year ago
They'll take in any cock n ball story you tell em - kids
Groonblatt 1 year ago
When I was in elementary school my music teacher played that song and had us do the may pole dance. Now realizing it was some kind of pagan ritual really creeps me out.
7ru7h533kr 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
this movie is the shit
jackscagnetti1 1 year ago
A Treeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Sharkotron 1 year ago
Wicker Man rules.
garethella 1 year ago
He's bursting his buttons.
PaxDisturbia 1 year ago
What kind of a teacher would let a student chew gum in class like that?
PaxDisturbia 1 year ago 11
It's so cute the way they dance so stiffly like they're all having their very first woodies.
PaxDisturbia 1 year ago
@PaxDisturbia And in their still high pitched voices.
newrochellephoenix 1 year ago
,,the modern movie is a hoax compared to this!
wolfdaddy205 1 year ago
brilliant song and scene...thanks!
Wings1471 1 year ago
best film ever i would love to live somewhere like that. (not the remake)
spiritwolf69uk 1 year ago
Balamory reminds me of the Wicker Man, cant think why ;)
Montian74 1 year ago 2
does anybody know what the violinist is called?
TheHalftimelord 1 year ago
Paganism is so much cooler than the boring old worldwide-popular-religion-of-the-moment.
frankysandwich 1 year ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
worst fucking shit ever
TomValedro 1 year ago
Id choose the fun loving slightly psychotic but highly sexually active pagans over the boring frigid christians anyday.
TheLordRose 1 year ago 26
@TheLordRose
Indeed. The islanders seem to love life, unlike the sin- and death-obsessed Christian.
RedSoxForObama 1 year ago 2
@TheLordRose Snap my Friend!
yorkie6687 1 year ago
@TheLordRose pretty funny
WVliberty 1 year ago
for those that can't belive in the christ this is another option..
pheildcorn 1 year ago
my favorite movie of all time. proper sequel "the wicker tree" out this year. cameo by sir christopher lee!
jeskrahn 1 year ago
all young boys dancing the pole? that just seems wrong.
jugglerjohn 1 year ago
Happy May Day every one! Have a Blessed Lammas night too. Pagans all over unite! 05/01/2010!
falsepride 1 year ago 3
Holy crap! You have got to be kidding!
sweetsong70 1 year ago
Any one else think that Howie looks like a love child of Alan Shearer and Sean Connery or just me??
jimmy106 1 year ago
I went to Scotland a couple of weeks ago and visited this location. Without the maypole of course, it is nearly exactly the same nearly 40 years on. I feel proud of the fact I got to walk around and see it in the flesh.
EggheadOfTheFuture 1 year ago 8
I think her hair was the SCARIEST part of that scene.
bitchyb73 1 year ago
Love Howie's face when he walks into the classroom... "You whaaaaht?"
lordsummerisle87 1 year ago
ontologically music comes from humping
shadowhalfcast 2 years ago
This film was so scary the songs were more scary I actually chucked out the dvd after i watched it havent seen it since untiol a couopple of days ago someone sed they saw the new version but u cant beat the oldies iv got over the phobia now
ZEPPELINALF 2 years ago
i dont know for some reason this song screams indian summer to me.
barkbarkribbitribbit 2 years ago
barkbarkribbitribbit
I don't know if we're on the same wavelength here but I've always wondered if they stand around for ages on set waiting for the sun to come out for filming. I hope I haven't ruined the mood!
Panthera0nca 2 years ago
Might be looking into this a bit much but does anyone else think its a bit odd the way it is a "girl" and a "man" not a girl and boy or man and woman.
needabloodyname 2 years ago
@needabloodyname Maybe the girl was about to become a woman soon. Very soon ;)
Losrandiro 2 years ago
@needabloodyname hell no I thought the same thing it's like they are approving pedophiles.
bitchyb73 1 year ago
Fantastic scene. Healthy sexual education, atleast compared to the sickening christian abstinence school of thought that is so vibrant today...
SailorMan69 2 years ago 4
hehehe... phallus.
spokmage 2 years ago
This was SUCH a good film. It's hard to get it out of your head... utterly haunting.
"Come ~ it is time to keep your appointment.......... with the Wickerman"
MmeLEnfer 2 years ago 7
RIP Edward Woodward.
coralarch 2 years ago 45
@coralarch - hopefully a tree will grow from his grave.
elkwyre 1 year ago
@elkwyre Interesting thought. I dare say Sgt Howie would NOT approve!!
coralarch 1 year ago
One of the best Pagan movies every made! The MayPole is a fertility ritual to bring fertility not only to the fields, but to the people as well!
swordwoman2000 2 years ago 5
Easily one of the most unnerving scenes in the entire movie, and one of the first time we get a TRUE glimpse at exactly how wrong everything is at that place.
Love this movie. Now I'm gonna go watch it.
Eshbaal 2 years ago
@Eshbaal There's nothing wrong on Summerisle. According to their most sacred beliefs, what they're doing will save the lives of everyone on the island from starvation. Judge not and all that.
jillgivler 2 years ago 2
True, but we are seeing this from the perspective of a man who believes it is completely wrong - hence my choice of words.
NiceNrelaxed 2 years ago
RIP Edward. You've left some great memories.
SimplyPaul 2 years ago 4
The best GODDAMNED musical EVER!!!
Oh yeah, It's also the best horror movie.
kives1985 2 years ago 2
at about 0.48 it crosses the line from hilarious to fucking creepy. i don't think they sacrificed humans in greek paganism, while the various crusades and wars of christianity could be seen as mass human sacrifice similar to aztec rites. of course that would beg the question of the trojan war.
livershot 2 years ago
i happen to be a scottish school teacher and we have a maypole and I always think of this when we do dancing! theres not actually much of a tradtition of maypoling in scotland, mostly england, scandinavia and germany. great movie!
tadge72 2 years ago
but the pagan rites are a modernist invention of the previous lord of the summer illes
shadowhalfcast 2 years ago
did you mean to answer me? Again, not a tradition in scotland, just a comment.
tadge72 2 years ago
aye i did mean to answer you. i was just pointing out an interesting narrative in the film where the origins of the 'return' to pagan ideals are explained. They are an invention so therefore like all modernist attempts at a 'return' they are a fiction and not a tradition. Your right though its a great film. One of a kind.
shadowhalfcast 2 years ago
Perhaps, but at least in the Pagan Religion as presented in this film advocates the veneration of Nature and the Celebration of Life. Although I am a Setian, I think that the neo Pagans of today venerate Life better than that murderous blasphemy known to me as Christianity. I refer you to Rossel Hope Robbins' book: "THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF WITCHCRAFT AND DEMONOLOGY". Although Mr. Robbins said there are no witches, he was countered by Sybil Leek with: "Oh yes there are" during one of his speeches.
Nguli34689 2 years ago
I think you have to respect the psychological underpinnings of ideology, and destructive behaviors.
Historical Christians were horribly abused by their parents, resulting in a cult that believed that God (the parental projection) wanted his Son to suffer horribly for salvation (restoration of parental love).
Considering the accusations of Druidic human sacrifice, it seems that child abuse was prevalent in that culture as well.
Jcolinsol 2 years ago
I used to be a born again christer. I have no respect for that cult of mass murder.I have more respect for Druids and Aztecs. I will also say that if Christians believe that Jesus is God and it was this god that got the virgin mary pregnant, then this story has some incestuous overtones. Some Jews think that JC was a sorcerer. If true, what's to prevent me from thinking that JC used his demonic powers? Was it Beelzebub? I won't respond to a christer henceforth for there is mutual disrespect.
Nguli34689 2 years ago
Off to the lions with them all !!
How about the taste of their own medicine? Iron Maidens... The Rack...The Holy Inquisition...and so on...
Nguli34689 2 years ago
What are you talking about? You appear to have misunderstood my statement. Are you accusing me of being Christian? I'm an atheist.
My point was that the violent behavior of these religious groups originates with child-abuse, and has nothing to do with the tenets of the ideology.
Jcolinsol 2 years ago
No, I am not accusing you of being a christer. You are too smart for that nonsense. I agreed with you. Most comments, blasphemous as they were, were meant to annoy a born againite jeezoid.
Nguli34689 2 years ago
This film should never have been re-made, and certainly NOT with Nicholas Cage, its remade for the American market. Cage will burn in hell for his sins!
dandylionbreath 2 years ago
Poor Nicholas Cage...I agree the movie was stupid, but he can be a decent actor when he tries.....
yakataah 2 years ago
ACE FILM,great story and music,an absolute classic.
garethella 2 years ago
I adore this movie (or at least the full version), it works on so many levels, at first, its a decent tale, well made, with great music, and it does a great job on Pagan/Christian conflict. The cop is a Christian Bigot, and it makes the point that it is irrational, and the Pagan religion is more rational, yet, in the end, the Christian is the one trying to do something good, while the fanatical Pagans are off committing human sacrifice. This, Gently Jonny, and Willows song are great music too.
zedwardson 2 years ago 3
The people that made this film are GODS.
The people that made the remake should be burned by these GODS in a Wicker Man.
Who else agrees?
dietcokecan94 2 years ago 116
@dietcokecan94 Hear Hear!
Anjis 1 year ago
@dietcokecan94 - Oh yes and I made the mistake of actually watching the one with Nicholas Cage and I had to keep saying to myself: "you knew this was going to be shit" over and over just to keep my peace and not scream at the box - the "box" being the TV because there was no way in hell I'd go to the cinema for THAT. All of the intense scenes in the original were completely flushed down the pan on that one. It was disturbing in its crappiness.
FredericaBimble 1 year ago
@dietcokecan94 I agree and while theyre doing it throw on the guys that made the new A-Team
cargandaff 1 year ago
@dietcokecan94
Totally!! The remake was nonsense! The original was a classic!
dreamsorceror 1 year ago