bog should be banned, what should be used as an absolute last resort has become the first option the easy fix and skillfull tradesman are on the decline. Within 10 - 20 years file finishing will be a lost art. Thankgod i had a tradesman that taught me the right way, i cant stand when guys i work with bump shit out and slap on bog, its pathetic lazy and require 0 skill, but we have the insurance companies to thank for that.
I can't argue with you really. Unfortunately when given the option of a quality repair or a cheap one, most car owners also only ever want the cheapest. Most car owners don't accept that a skillfull repair takes longer, and , therefore, should cost more. Bodyshop owners don't seem to encourage metal finishing rather than filler either, from my personal experience.
some shops in sydney aus do allow tradesman to metal finish, but i can count em on one hand..
12 repairs a day is ridiculous by the way. I would like to see a forum start up for panel beaters and more videos of techniques and stuff, would be cool
@paneljigman having seen this. It doesn't look as though it took that long to do.
if you get good at it, could you reshape the dent shown in the video in 20 mins? Or has the video been shortened considerably? It takes about 20 minutes for bodyfiller to dry enough to sand it, let alone all the time needed to shape it. I would have thought on small and uncomplicated damage, the metal finishing technique would actually be quicker.
Hi, Thanks for your comment. Obviously, the time it takes for any repair depends upon the skill and experience of the individual panelbeater. I would say around about 20 to 40 minutes would be a reasonable target for the one shown here. Don't forget, when using bodyfiller you don't stand and watch it set hard. You can go and beat out and fill another dent. This is why professional panelbeaters can repair so many cars in one day.
@paneljigman Ah, well if it takes that long WITH practice i can see why they tend to use body filler. Does the video and PDF booklet you sell go into more detail on metal finishing than is shown in this video?
Hi, There is more information on the basics of metal finishing, but the PDF and video disc are not specific to metal finishing. There is information and advice on pin pulling and examples of filler repairs as well. Once you have grasped the basics, you just need to keep on practising on lots of different types of dent. Many areas on modern cars don't allow access for a dolly block. Hence the need for other techniques. See the wheelarch video here for example.
nobody does this anymore! i work for VW. Metal finish can only be used on a very small selection of dent damage. Filler now days is very versatile and when used in 1mm skim would last a life time on a dent of this nature. This type of repair in this video never gets a perfect perfect finish, unless you load it right up with high build primer and then wet flat with a block, old school!
i do 12 repairs per day, i'd get 2 or 3 done if i used this style 0/10
You are right to say it's quicker, and cheaper to use bodyfiller, and that there is very little chance to metal finish on modern cars, (also it removes the zinc coating) but I disagree that the quality of a metal finish is lower than a filler repair. It comes down to the abilities of the repairer. In my opinion if a panelbeater can't metal finish then he is not a 'Panel Beater' at all. The pressure of having to repair cars quickly also dictates the working practices in modern workshops.
good question. assuming you mean the lifetime of a car, not it's owner. I guess if you expect a new car to last for ten years then good quality filler applied correctly should last that long. I don't know what kind of guarantee filler manufacturers give their products though. I have never seen filler simply crack and fall out of it's own accord.
@paneljigman hi can you help me iam looking to buy a good hammer and dolly set can you recommend one i see many on line but i dont know what to pick i will be working on a 1964 impala
Most of my panel tools are made by Sykes Pickavant. There should be plentyof suppliers for this make. Also I should think Snap On, Facom and MAC should be other names that have lots of suitable tools to choose from.
@paneljigman snap and Mac use the same hammers that martin makes but i never heard of Sykes Pickavant how good are they compare to the other top name brands . have you ever used Mechanics Time Saver PB47K hammers and dolly set.
I've not heard of mechanics time saver, so I can't really comment on their tools. I think sykes pickavant have a website, but I don't know if there are any stockists outside the u.k. I've used snap-on before and they seen o.k. Maybe you could pop into a couple of local bodyshops and have a look at what they use.
You could be right, but then a lot of car owners aren't bothered if the repair is done with a skim of filler, as long as the painted job looks o.k. Metal finishing usually takes a bit longer than a filler repair and customers are not willing to pay extra for it. It's something all panelbeaters should be able to do, but many don't get the chance to use the method on a regular basis and therefore don't become really good at it.
Great illustration on how to remove a small dent without the use of body filler. However, in this day and age, judging from the size of the dent. IMHO, this dent could had been removed by a PDR specialist ( Paintless dent removal). The video showed no damage to the paint on the fender and the dent was not very critical. PDR all the way, turn around time, about 45 minutes. Cost, no more that $ 100.00
You are right, PDR would be better for a repair of this type, but the purpose of this video is simply to demonstrate one of the many metal finishing methods that panel beaters are expected to learn. Unfortunately, most panel beaters here in the U.K. are not taught PDR as a part of mainstream body repair, PDR is still regarded as a specialist method. Maybe this will become less so in future. All panel beaters should try it, just to see how difficult it is to do.
I hear you... I knew what the purpose of the video was, I just had to add my two. Your right though PDR is not for everyone. It takes a lot a skill and practice to master the art. I've tried many times and always manage to screw it up. And I consider may self an old school type of body man. I can take just about any crunched up panel and straighten it like is no ones business. But PDR work? I suppose if I kept ad it I would probably be able to master it, I suppose. Keep up the good work Brother
IMHO, the first mistake made in this video was they did NOT remove the paint first! PAINT REMOVER for the area is needed to do "EXPERT" metal finishing, otherwise you dull and clog the crap out of the vixen files and other tools.
Remove the FINISH in the area first, you wanker!
Horrible workmanship! No wonder that IDIOT didn't show the end result!
why remove the paint when it alows you to see your progress without removing excess metal, just like a guide coat. I'm sorry but paint won't dull the file but it will clog it a good alternative would be a sanding block with a coarse grit untill you've reached metal. There are many ways to reach the same result, only a wanker would think otherwise
hello im a newbie in the auto body industry, i have a question for you, what is the grit on the grinder you used and on the d.a? hope u can get back at me. thank you
Initially a 36 grit disc is used on the grinder, sanding left to right. This disc is swapped for a 60 grit disc and the repair sanded top to bottom, to remove the 36 grit scratches. A 40 grit disc is then used with the d.a. and finally an 80 grit disc on the d.a. for the final surface finish, although some repairers might go over the repair again with a 180 grit or finer when feathering back the paint edge.
Also, try and use dust extraction equipment if you can.
Hello, I don't know if you can follow up on this post but I would love to hear a bit more information throughout this clip on the techniques involved. Particularly on the bumping file and the body file and some of the stages where a spray is used. All fascinating stuff for someone who is not in the trade
The bumping file is used in place of a panel hammer (when working 'on dolly') to reduce the possibility of stretching the metal. The body file is used to highlight those areas that are low, and should be worked on dolly to bring them up. The matt black spray acts as a guide coat. Once you have sanded to bare metal the surface irreglarities can be hard to see. filing on a guide coat shows up the low and high spots remaining more clearly.
nice skill
jimhc22 6 months ago
@jimhc22
Thank you.
Eddie
paneljigman 6 months ago
LOVE THESE PANEL BEATER VIDS..KEEP EM COMING PLEASE...
Mr513phill 9 months ago
I hope to add more videos as time allows.
Thanks
Eddie
paneljigman 9 months ago
bog should be banned, what should be used as an absolute last resort has become the first option the easy fix and skillfull tradesman are on the decline. Within 10 - 20 years file finishing will be a lost art. Thankgod i had a tradesman that taught me the right way, i cant stand when guys i work with bump shit out and slap on bog, its pathetic lazy and require 0 skill, but we have the insurance companies to thank for that.
robbiesonable 9 months ago
Hi robbiesonable,
I can't argue with you really. Unfortunately when given the option of a quality repair or a cheap one, most car owners also only ever want the cheapest. Most car owners don't accept that a skillfull repair takes longer, and , therefore, should cost more. Bodyshop owners don't seem to encourage metal finishing rather than filler either, from my personal experience.
Eddie
paneljigman 9 months ago
@paneljigman
some shops in sydney aus do allow tradesman to metal finish, but i can count em on one hand..
12 repairs a day is ridiculous by the way. I would like to see a forum start up for panel beaters and more videos of techniques and stuff, would be cool
robbiesonable 9 months ago
@paneljigman having seen this. It doesn't look as though it took that long to do.
if you get good at it, could you reshape the dent shown in the video in 20 mins? Or has the video been shortened considerably? It takes about 20 minutes for bodyfiller to dry enough to sand it, let alone all the time needed to shape it. I would have thought on small and uncomplicated damage, the metal finishing technique would actually be quicker.
TeifiValley123 5 months ago
@TeifiValley123
Hi, Thanks for your comment. Obviously, the time it takes for any repair depends upon the skill and experience of the individual panelbeater. I would say around about 20 to 40 minutes would be a reasonable target for the one shown here. Don't forget, when using bodyfiller you don't stand and watch it set hard. You can go and beat out and fill another dent. This is why professional panelbeaters can repair so many cars in one day.
Eddie
paneljigman 5 months ago
@paneljigman Ah, well if it takes that long WITH practice i can see why they tend to use body filler. Does the video and PDF booklet you sell go into more detail on metal finishing than is shown in this video?
TeifiValley123 5 months ago
@TeifiValley123
Hi, There is more information on the basics of metal finishing, but the PDF and video disc are not specific to metal finishing. There is information and advice on pin pulling and examples of filler repairs as well. Once you have grasped the basics, you just need to keep on practising on lots of different types of dent. Many areas on modern cars don't allow access for a dolly block. Hence the need for other techniques. See the wheelarch video here for example.
Eddie
paneljigman 5 months ago
nobody does this anymore! i work for VW. Metal finish can only be used on a very small selection of dent damage. Filler now days is very versatile and when used in 1mm skim would last a life time on a dent of this nature. This type of repair in this video never gets a perfect perfect finish, unless you load it right up with high build primer and then wet flat with a block, old school!
i do 12 repairs per day, i'd get 2 or 3 done if i used this style 0/10
kevcarspray 11 months ago
You are right to say it's quicker, and cheaper to use bodyfiller, and that there is very little chance to metal finish on modern cars, (also it removes the zinc coating) but I disagree that the quality of a metal finish is lower than a filler repair. It comes down to the abilities of the repairer. In my opinion if a panelbeater can't metal finish then he is not a 'Panel Beater' at all. The pressure of having to repair cars quickly also dictates the working practices in modern workshops.
Eddie
paneljigman 11 months ago
Perfect :) Thanks for this video
SebNormandy 1 year ago
use PDR you dumb brit
boddyxpolitic 1 year ago
metal finishes last longer than filler finishes? doe the filler ever last a life time?
stephanoskavala 1 year ago
good question. assuming you mean the lifetime of a car, not it's owner. I guess if you expect a new car to last for ten years then good quality filler applied correctly should last that long. I don't know what kind of guarantee filler manufacturers give their products though. I have never seen filler simply crack and fall out of it's own accord.
Eddie
paneljigman 1 year ago
@paneljigman hi can you help me iam looking to buy a good hammer and dolly set can you recommend one i see many on line but i dont know what to pick i will be working on a 1964 impala
soloM81 1 year ago
Hi,
Most of my panel tools are made by Sykes Pickavant. There should be plentyof suppliers for this make. Also I should think Snap On, Facom and MAC should be other names that have lots of suitable tools to choose from.
Eddie
paneljigman 1 year ago
@paneljigman snap and Mac use the same hammers that martin makes but i never heard of Sykes Pickavant how good are they compare to the other top name brands . have you ever used Mechanics Time Saver PB47K hammers and dolly set.
soloM81 1 year ago
I've not heard of mechanics time saver, so I can't really comment on their tools. I think sykes pickavant have a website, but I don't know if there are any stockists outside the u.k. I've used snap-on before and they seen o.k. Maybe you could pop into a couple of local bodyshops and have a look at what they use.
Eddie
paneljigman 1 year ago
nowadays im sure the youngsters dont master this skill
stephanoskavala 1 year ago
You could be right, but then a lot of car owners aren't bothered if the repair is done with a skim of filler, as long as the painted job looks o.k. Metal finishing usually takes a bit longer than a filler repair and customers are not willing to pay extra for it. It's something all panelbeaters should be able to do, but many don't get the chance to use the method on a regular basis and therefore don't become really good at it.
Eddie
paneljigman 1 year ago
GREAT workmanship
stephanoskavala 1 year ago
Thanks.
Eddie
paneljigman 1 year ago
Great illustration on how to remove a small dent without the use of body filler. However, in this day and age, judging from the size of the dent. IMHO, this dent could had been removed by a PDR specialist ( Paintless dent removal). The video showed no damage to the paint on the fender and the dent was not very critical. PDR all the way, turn around time, about 45 minutes. Cost, no more that $ 100.00
Jazzhog 2 years ago
Hi Jazzhog,
You are right, PDR would be better for a repair of this type, but the purpose of this video is simply to demonstrate one of the many metal finishing methods that panel beaters are expected to learn. Unfortunately, most panel beaters here in the U.K. are not taught PDR as a part of mainstream body repair, PDR is still regarded as a specialist method. Maybe this will become less so in future. All panel beaters should try it, just to see how difficult it is to do.
Eddie
paneljigman 2 years ago
I hear you... I knew what the purpose of the video was, I just had to add my two. Your right though PDR is not for everyone. It takes a lot a skill and practice to master the art. I've tried many times and always manage to screw it up. And I consider may self an old school type of body man. I can take just about any crunched up panel and straighten it like is no ones business. But PDR work? I suppose if I kept ad it I would probably be able to master it, I suppose. Keep up the good work Brother
Jazzhog 2 years ago
Thanks.
Eddie
paneljigman 2 years ago
IMHO, the first mistake made in this video was they did NOT remove the paint first! PAINT REMOVER for the area is needed to do "EXPERT" metal finishing, otherwise you dull and clog the crap out of the vixen files and other tools.
Remove the FINISH in the area first, you wanker!
Horrible workmanship! No wonder that IDIOT didn't show the end result!
panhead1219 2 years ago
why remove the paint when it alows you to see your progress without removing excess metal, just like a guide coat. I'm sorry but paint won't dull the file but it will clog it a good alternative would be a sanding block with a coarse grit untill you've reached metal. There are many ways to reach the same result, only a wanker would think otherwise
lovemybabygirl99 2 years ago
hello im a newbie in the auto body industry, i have a question for you, what is the grit on the grinder you used and on the d.a? hope u can get back at me. thank you
ogsleeps 2 years ago
Hi,
Initially a 36 grit disc is used on the grinder, sanding left to right. This disc is swapped for a 60 grit disc and the repair sanded top to bottom, to remove the 36 grit scratches. A 40 grit disc is then used with the d.a. and finally an 80 grit disc on the d.a. for the final surface finish, although some repairers might go over the repair again with a 180 grit or finer when feathering back the paint edge.
Also, try and use dust extraction equipment if you can.
regards
Eddie Todds
paneljigman 2 years ago
Hello, I don't know if you can follow up on this post but I would love to hear a bit more information throughout this clip on the techniques involved. Particularly on the bumping file and the body file and some of the stages where a spray is used. All fascinating stuff for someone who is not in the trade
tenc2107 3 years ago
Hi, thanks for your enquiry.
The bumping file is used in place of a panel hammer (when working 'on dolly') to reduce the possibility of stretching the metal. The body file is used to highlight those areas that are low, and should be worked on dolly to bring them up. The matt black spray acts as a guide coat. Once you have sanded to bare metal the surface irreglarities can be hard to see. filing on a guide coat shows up the low and high spots remaining more clearly.
regards, Eddie Todds
paneljigman 3 years ago