.45 Double Action Combat Pistol Shoot Off (Part 1)

[HighDesertOutpost]

Great Video! My progression went like this 1911>EA Witness>HKUSP45 and now finally falling in with my MP45 from S&W. This gun is so underrated and under represented because its not as sexy as the 1911 or as tacticool as the SIGs and HKs. Still hammer reliable and dead accurate!!

[HYBRIDCOMBATIVES]

@HighDesertOutpost I am an M&P guy as well. 1911>Glock>M&P

[HYBRIDCOMBATIVES]

S&W M&P.45 blows all these outdated dinosaurs out of the water.

[HYBRIDCOMBATIVES]

@HYBRIDCOMBATIVES Hammer guns are completely unnecessary in a world of striker fired weapons.

[Patriot36]

@HYBRIDCOMBATIVES Interesting but that's a very limited and lacking perspective. It also indicates to me that you may not have a thorough grasp of the mechanical attributes of many hammer fired designs and how that translates to certain inherent advantages in handgun like a 1911 or any other quality DA/SA weapon. Notice that I don't speak poorly of striker weapons either, since each design has advantages. Thanks for watching man.

[HYBRIDCOMBATIVES]

@Patriot36 Considering I have been in the tactical arena for over 20 years, including being a combat vet and gunsmith, I still stand by my comment. DA/SA is outdated and slow compared to the consistency of striker fired weapons. That is why Glock dominates the competitive circuit and has over taken the 1911 and the cz/p9/witness configurations that dominated in the early 90s.

[Patriot36]

@HYBRIDCOMBATIVES I think your point of view on this particular issue is simplistic regardless of your resume. It ignores the obvious evidence to the contrary. Even a cursory look of the equipment of the top 20 USPSA shooters in Open & Limited division deflates your notion. Some are using striker weapons but overall hammered preference is dominant. I'm always boggled when people see equipment selection as black and white. Most seasoned shooters realize that each has advantages.

[HYBRIDCOMBATIVES]

@Patriot36 yhere is no elevated high brow scientific bullshit here. A consistent trigger beats a DA to SA pull period. I am not talking about 1911s, I am talking about Double action to single action. This isnt rocket science.

[Patriot36]

@HYBRIDCOMBATIVES Ok, I just realized that you were comparing striker to DA/SA specifically. That's fine...different strokes bro! There's a whole bunch of people who still enjoy their features as evidenced by sales figures. However you stated that "Glock dominates the competitive circuit and has over taken the 1911 and the cz" I say, not hardly! Again, look at what's being used by the top Open shooters. It'll be a snapshot into reality.

[HYBRIDCOMBATIVES]

@Patriot36 I shoot competition and gave done so for 20 years. I am fully aware of the models used, and you will be hard pressed to find more than a few da/sa guns in stock or open class. There are plenty of statistics out there and I assure you that Glock is the #1 pistol in IDPA. I personally know a gunsmith that builds glock short break triggers that are as clean and fast as ANY custom 1911.

[Patriot36]

@HYBRIDCOMBATIVES I guess the USPSA world hasn't yet been enlightened to the advancements in glock triggers produced by the gunsmiths that you know. By 2013, 1911's will likely be abandoned completely. Seriously though, the DA/SA still has a place as evidenced by the market. There are people out there who are better off with a heavy first pull but yet benefit from the lighter pull thereafter. The partial alternative is a NY trigger on the glock, without the lighter 2nd pull.

[HYBRIDCOMBATIVES]

@Patriot36 I can show you the stats from the 2010-2011 stats. Glock is dominant by a big margin.

[Patriot36]

@HYBRIDCOMBATIVES Your posting an answer to a question or statement that was never asked. You're still talking about IDPA which isn't USPSA or IPSC. Furthermore, there is no Open division in IDPA. Lastly, you got off on a competition related kick, which has little to do with the fact that DA/SA still holds a solid spot in today's firearms market. I'm honestly baffled over your dedication to voicing the the world that all DA/SA's suck. You don't like them, we get it.

[HYBRIDCOMBATIVES]

@Patriot36 It isn't that I don't "like" them. I have owned plenty of SIGs and CZs. I just don't think they are viably competitive with the new technology. Certainly a 2012 Hybrid Toyota doesn't invalidate a 1967 Mustang, but I am sure you get my reasoning considering a technological advantage. The consistant trigger of a striker fired gun is certainly one of the technological advantages intended to surpass the DA/SA. In defensive applications this consistency is a huge advantage

[HYBRIDCOMBATIVES]

@HYBRIDCOMBATIVES for clarity i am referring to production class, not open class which certainly is still dominated by 1911 race guns with some cz types in there as well.

[HYBRIDCOMBATIVES]

@Patriot36 sivigny took the USPSA open class with a Glock 35. It is a growing trend that will only get bigger until the striker guns squeeze out the competition.

[HYBRIDCOMBATIVES]

@Patriot36 Seeing as I do my own work in my own shop I am pretty aware of the design engineering.

[HighDesertOutpost]

@HYBRIDCOMBATIVES although I love my M&P I do disagree with this assessment. Different strokes for different folks...I just happen to be of the school of thought that I grew up shooting a S&W N Frame. So, the transition to something that has a consistent trigger pull and bonehead safety (trigger mechanism and chamber indicator) equated to a clip fed pistol that is revolver reliable and quicker to reload. The other pistols with the SA/DA never felt right for me, personally.

[ionizdgrunt2]

m1911 hands down is my most favorite handgun to shoot

[obifongkenobi]

i bought my sig 220 in 1986, i was young then in my 20's. now i'm closing in on 50 years old.

my sig is ageless unlike me.

[Eman3037]

Great Video. After your review I went out and purchased the Sig P220...........I love it!!

[Patriot36]

@Eman3037 It's really nice to know that this video was helpful! Enjoy your new Sig buddy and thanks for watching!

[learning2shootbetter]

Nice video series. I have shot all 4, owned two (FNP/HK45) and still the HK45. The only thing missing in this dialog is that the Sig is the ONLY non-polymer gun in the line up and therefore has more weight, so the recoil won't be as pronounced. The FNP, for me, was a little loose in my hand-probably due to a lack of ergonomics and small hands, but the sight picture on the FNP was a little more open, so my POA better. I finally sold the FNP b/c I shot the HK better-personal preference is king.

[navyman8903]

My HK shoot softer than anything I have ever fired. They feel like 9mms. But they feel different to different people I guess. But another thing to consider is, if those are range guns, they might have a lot of rounds through them, they may need new springs. The HK45 and USP 45 both are amazing pistols, but they aren't for everyone.

[Patriot36]

@navyman8903 With proper respect for your opinion, to suggest that any .45 feels like a 9mm is a really generic statement. Obviously it doesn't feel like a Ruger LC9 right? I'm certainly at ease if someone simply states that HK's seem to shoot soft as compared to other full size .45s, even though that hasn't been my experience. Trigger refinement was profoundly lacking and substandard to the other two guns tested. All pistols were fresh since that batch of rentals had just arrived.

[navyman8903]

@Patriot36 Have you fired a Match USP trigger? I know HK's don't have the best triggers, they are combat triggers. You experience as you stated also is with match/comp 1911 triggers. And I also don't know how you are the only person that didn't feel that is was a soft shooting 45acp. I have probably let 20 people shoot my HK's, they say two things, how soft it recoils, and how accurate it is. But again, they don't fit everyone, and HK's aren't the only pistol company I own/like either.

[navyman8903]

@Patriot36 Not every weapon system fits every shooter, and I understand that. Also the statement about 9mm is to give reference to an experienced shooter the felt recoil from a full framed 9mm pistol. I also have been able to fire both my HK's all day without problem. Where firing my Full Weight 1911's takes a toll after 500-1000 rounds, or any other metal framed pistol. But I too respect your opinion as a shooter, and the pistol needs to fit, function, point, and shoot straight for the shooter.

[MikeInTheMachine]

This is a really really great video series. Everything about it is top-notch, and is a dream come true for someone trying to buy a 45 double action without access to a shooting range or the cash to rent the different pistols and ammo. Thanks a bunch!

[Patriot36]

@MikeInTheMachine You're very welcome and thank you for the kind words of encouragement! People like you continue to make this an enjoyable hobby. Have a great weekend!

[187Kdogg]

When is the next round coming!!?? :)

[Patriot36]

@187Kdogg All 3 parts were posted at the same time.

[187Kdogg]

Weird i thought H&K pride themselves in having low recoil weapons

[isshinryu33]

I would have to say that it was more him then the guns, they jumped about the same. maybe he could not tell because he was more ready for recoil.

[JWnFL]

Great Video! Thanks for the Comparison, One of the best video's information wise I have ever seen... no fan boy bullshit per brand, just good ole' facts from good shooters! I can not say Thank You enough times for your honesty.

[Patriot36]

@JWnFL Thank you kindly for the views and comment! I'm glad it was helpful. You might also enjoy Part 2 and 3.

[JWnFL]

@JWnFL I watched them.. all. FANTASTIC! and once again Thanks for taking the time to have an honest real person share a view point... PLEASE! Keep up the Great Work!

[wootfortoot]

get te sig if you want a single tack, the hks are great with a little more ammo and the fn is good as well but not as high quality as the rest

[svkmrch75]

Good video! Any comparisons with the XDM 45, Glock 21, or the M&P?

[Patriot36]

@svkmrch75 Thanks! Perhaps that will be the next set of .45's tested.

[shade1225]

You should really try lem trigger in the hk45

[PinoyYounGster9deuce]

i love wide the fnp 45 is, i like the chunky handgun look.

[Patriot36]

@PinoyYounGster9deuce Interesting, I can't actually say that the looks appeal to me as boldly as the other pistols. Typically I prefer sleek elegance. That stated, I'm just as much, if not more, interested in function and this pistol performs admirable. Thanks for watching man!

[TheDishD]

Great Vid bro! very nice camera work, outstanding shooting by DC (look forward to more from him, sounds like a top bloke and knws what he is talking about) ahh the sound of a .45 lov it! gota say im a lil surprised at the results, i thought the usp and hk would own, but i am very happy to see the FNP is up there! bring on the rest of the series brother, best wishes and take care.

[Patriot36]

@TheDishD Thank you Dish! DC is a great dude! I'm honestly surprised as well. My favorite gun before starting this comparison was the HK45. Turns out it was the first one I set aside and the second one that DC set aside. It was really our goal to convey our honest thoughts with zero bias. Many of these reviews are made after a guy arrives home with his newly purchased gun, so of course it's the "best." I think this formula makes for a more honest assessment.

[perspicacity89]

I love this video.

[Patriot36]

@perspicacity89 Thank you! More to come shortly....

[derekwlee]

Your videos are always awesome, but as someone who is trying to find a quality 45 (Live in California so the choice is harder) this video series is especially useful. Thanks man!

[sniper4usmc]

@derekwlee But FN45 and HK45 is not on CA DOJ roster

[derekwlee]

@sniper4usmc

Yeah I know. Don't care about the HK45 (hate paddle mag catch) but the FN hurt. I had looked into an EAA witness in 45 as well and of course, not on list.

[Patriot36]

@derekwlee Thanks bud!  Yeah, sorry that you have to endure ridiculous regulations in CA. I guess you can pick from the two that are approved there. This will be a 3-4 part series btw. Part Two will upload tonight.

[Vhammer2010]

LOL, I get excited shooting too.. Great vid!

[Patriot36]

@Vhammer2010 Thanks for watching man!