The Voices of Tug Hill, Part 1 of 3

[ronkampnich]

Go up on the hill, look at the deer population, the deer population has not chenged, i've seen hundreds of deer with in a few feet of the turbine...

[ronkampnich]

the turbines have been there for 6 years, not one single trail closed! :-)

[ronkampnich]

70% of denmark is powered by wind, why can't the united states be? also, i see one comment, why would the people of the town get anything from the wind turbiners, we have a kraft plant in town, do we get free cream cheese? why would we get free power, there are dairy farms, do we get free milk? not only have they produced more than 30 jobs directly, but has helped so many little businesses

[Antithropocentric]

That snowmobiler at 7:15 has an odd sense of aesthetics, with all the noise intrusions those riding machines cause.

[rawheas]

wind sucks end of story. the only renewable source that is viable is hydro, cuz its cheap. frankly i dont care if hydro kills fish, its better than smoke or expensive ugly wind turbines.

[Antithropocentric]

@rawheas, how can you not mention SOLAR, especially with so many existing surfaces it could be mounted on? It's a no-brainer for powering A/C in the desert as panel costs decrease.

[Thane36425]

That noise would get irritating after a while. Also folks need to consider what goes into building these things. A lot of rare earth metals go into these things and that causes a lot of pollution and environmental damage mining and processing them.

[SnOwMoBiLiNg112]

i go up to tug hill on snowmobilin trips and fourwheeling trips at least 10 times a year when i first saw one i was confused at first then i got used too them i thought they were cool on the trail its unussual to see i think they make the landscape look good and bad. but the government should have gotten conscent from all homes in a 2 mile radius of each windmill that wouldhave made everyone happier

[stealthmeth]

first time i saw one it was 130am 10ft snowdrifts, i came around the corner and it scared the crap out of me. i literally got the chills. then i realized and its ok but everytime i see them it weirds me out.

[SnOwMoBiLiNg112]

i agree with the people that are againts the windmills if they close trails because of those things they will have hell coming their way so many people love riding snowmobiles and fourwhelers their will be major problems for the idiots that put them up. its great to help the eviornment but their doing more harm than good

[Cruz8r451]

WAH WAH WAH!! cry little babies cause you didn't get yours. Name withheld (guy with a beard) is not a local business owner. He's a highway supervisor. He's never had a business.

[samueladams7]

Do the town residents get a reduction on their property assessments? If so, about how much and if not, why not? Unfortunately, these GIGANTORS are considered "personal property" (because they can be removed) and NOT real estate so they're not taxed anywhere near as much as they should be!!

[carbonfiber00001]

I have been a wind tech for 5 years and I have worked on this site(maple ridge)so I know what I'm talking about.The jackass at 2:43 is full of shit all this farms settled for one price and did not realize how much it is worth and now they want to cry about it.Theses turbines are silent at 40yd.Stop making shit up to try to get more money.I can under stand about the view it is beautiful but now its beautiful and amazing.

[ericpecker]

amen to that partner! beats the shit out of a nuclear power plant! that rick fucker needs a haircut!

[carbonfiber00001]

what this stupid yokels don't realize is that when there's a retro fit project and they call in 80 workers in to that small town that's a economical stimulus .I would spend $15. on breakfast ,lunch and drinks for the crew every day times that by 80.

[arrowenterprises]

Everyone wants green power, lower energy costs, and a decrease on fossil fuel dependancy. No one wants to have something like this in their own back yard. I have stood next to these very turbines and was amazed at how quiet they were. Quit complaining and start sucking it up. Americans have become a society of soft, lazy, complainers. I hope they build more wind farms ASAP.

[mrmasr]

quiet?? stand next to one on a windy night......for the rest of your life. then see how "quiet" they are

[strawberryseason]

The wind turbines have a huge spatial footprint for a piddle of electricity. This is "energy sprawl". The industry themselves say they need 60 acres per megawatt. The solution to our energy issue is greater energy efficiency, not more ways to wreck nature. These turbines spoil our landscapes. The turbines are ugly monsters that destroy rural areas.

[VagabondOracle]

how exactly do they harm the environment? By being unsightly? By taking up land? Those aren't really valid arguments I hate to inform you. More destructive than hydroelectricity? Note even close. Coal power? You must be mad. Nuclear power? Keep trying. I'd like to be sympathetic towards these people but they want us to take their side based on the fact that they make for an unsightly skyline and generate noise. Somebody somewhere has to look at the power plant, deal with it or move.

[strawberryseason]

VBO, do you think that these turbine add much energy to the grid? Do research. They will never replace coal, nuclear or hydro. Look at Germany, with the most installed wind of any nation. They have not reduced their reliance on conventional sources.

Wind supplies less than 2% of US energy needs. Just a piddle. With greater efficiency of the grid, we could reduce our electricity consumption by 30%.

We don't need the hideous wind towers. The built world does affect all animals, including us.

[VagabondOracle]

It's unfortunate that you didn't actually answer any of my questions but instead attempted to deflect it.

[strawberryseason]

VagabondOracle: Yes, I did address what you asked. Wind towers are less harmful than coal or nuclear, but they will NEVER replace those. Research how much usable energy is generated by wind. Very, very little. This is just another harmful scheme with no benefits. The real solution is greater energy efficiency.

As for the environmental impacts, it harms wildlife and the humans who live near them with low-frequency noise.

If you want to be informed, go to the Windwatch website.

[VagabondOracle]

Don't mistake disdain for misinformation.

[xtremerms]

I love how the uneducated keep calling wind turbines "windmills". I guess that is what you get when you have other people make your decisions. I have been to Tug Hill-wind turbines are the best thing to happen to it. As to the comment about being the biggest I think 1.5MW is the largest on the Hill which is 1/2 the size of the units in Tehachapi at Oak Creek.

[samueladams7]

Unfortunately, these things ARE considered "Windmills" by the State of New York Real Property Division (the ones who assigns property assessment classifications). They are also catorgized as "personal property" (because they can be removed) and NOT real estate. The end result is that they're not taxed anywhere near as much as they should be!!

[giantsfansk8ed]

windmills suck y didnt they build them all in one spot there ugly load and they suck

[alanhowitzer]

Ok, so this is a lesson on things not to do when you build wind farms.

[commonsense17]

How many wind turbines will it take to meet the increase demand for electricity within NYS till 2013? Please use government #'s. This is a wind 101 question. This will start to separate those who state they are stating facts from those who actually do have facts.

The answer will shock people on both sides of the issue. This will be a true fact on wind! If no one here posts it, I will, and also hope to educate people who are both pro and con about the issues of renewable energy generation.

[WindIsNotGreen]

So Educate us - pros and cons - ty

[commonsense17]

Take a shot at it! See how close you get. By the way, I am one of the producers of the Voices of Tug Hill.

[Dhalgren01]

Wind not coal. That's the bottom line. It is unfortunate that residents live in-between the farms that host the turbines. They don't get tax breaks, nor any electricity from the turbines. But whatever. They are quieter than cars or my downstairs neighbor in New York City.

But I can't see how anyone can advocate nuclear over wind power.

Wind not coal!

[REnergyEngineer28]

Have no fear, with climate change increasing Upstate NY's average annual temperatures, wind farms and snowmobiles will soon no longer conflict with one another. :)

[WindIsNotGreen]

One of the reasons this country has its energy problems is because people like to waste gas all day zipping around on their snowmobiles because they are too lazy to try any real snow sports.

[mrmasr]

wow your so smart! what do you call a real sport?? skiing? snowboarding? yeah......try and hit triple digit speeds doing that. you dont have the balls to do over 70 on a sled i guarantee it.

[WindIsNotGreen]

Yes! Wind Power for Cohocton is a group of selfish citizens who support lining their pockets with the UPC Wind Turbine Project blood money proposed for our community. We are dedicated to presenting the false truths and offering no dialogue in order to provide the worst information and no consideration for our citizens and our community.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

WindIsNotGreen, will you please inform me of where you have collected your information. I would gladly read and investigate your claims. I have read many articles from both pro and anti wind supporters and I have yet to see anything regarding devastating disasters. I will be compiling a list of available information on the issue, this may take some time considering the amount of time I have devoted to researching the issue.

[WindIsNotGreen]

It must be tough gathering all that "research" from the wind companies web sites. I get my information from the people that live with them.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

Every post I have submitted has been full of facts unlike the rest of you who have either pushed unsubstantiated claims or simply repeated "Wind Bad" ugh ugh and if articles is what you want I will gladly cite them. And as far as wind not working, tell that to Europe

[WindIsNotGreen]

Just another cubicle dwelling pussy who cant state facts and need to waste his employers time by doing nothing.

[S567KL]

What no answer to my oops questions? Outdated before the trees are cut and scale, ie volume required to generate anything meaningful. Is your only answer to ASSume I am radical, uneducated, and a backwoods inbred as you so kindly called all opposers of this scam? Good answer dude, go back to your wind-lease-signing handbook to figure out how to answer.

[S567KL]

Calling me names just peels back another layer of your thinly-veiled suit of armor. Go back and try agiain, this time answer the real questions with truth.

[merryhill07]

The only thing green in green energy is the money.When the government subsities stop so will the distruction across America. This is misuse of taxpayer dollars. All to go overseas to foreign investors. While the real problem fossil fuel could be better addressed. Not far from my home they are preparing for Industrial Wind Turbines, fifty acres of woods have been clear cut, not even a twig left. Amazing all for green energy!

[WindIsNotGreen]

Of course you must kill trees animals wildlife habitat water quality otherwise you can't have green energy yo.

Killing trees that convert C02 into 02 have to be clear cut so a turbine and reduce C02 yo. Get with it lol

[CleanGreenEnergy]

For one I never called anyone inbred. And I respect alternative views so long as they are supported by scientific data. There are many reports from unbiased groups that show that wind has no major impact on the environment. The claims made by all anti wind supporters in this posting have been proven as inaccurate or exaggerated.

[WindIsNotGreen]

waste your companies bandwidth, waste their electric bill, with your computer on.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

Well you guys obviously have an extremely radical viewpoint and are not open to the hard data and facts. You are precisely the types that I "generalized" in my original statement, ignorant and uninformed individuals who play to heed progress.

[NoTurbinesForBovina]

get some facts and present them. If you look there are no positives to wind. if you can find something the wind people put out them take a look at the REAL facts. Hey take a vacation and live under one.

[NoTurbinesForBovina]

Well you have an uninformed opinion as well. Radical? If they worked which they do not then I would be the person do the cart wheels and playing with puppies under the wind turbines as the wind assholes portray.

[NoTurbinesForBovina]

LIVE UNDER a wind turbine and then say how much you love green wind energy. Dont just say you would LIKE to live under one. Live under one. Be a man.

[WindIsNotGreen]

I'd say the way you feel you should buy property so you can be guaranteed the opportunity to have an wind developer construct a 425 ft wind turbine in your front yard. Then sit in your living room facing the sun and stare at the shadow as it spins and spins. But at 26 you probably could not afford a trailer on a 20x20 lot so too bad.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

I do live near numerous wind farms located in PA and WV and I fully support the construction of a planned wind farm in my home state. I firmly believe that solar and wind are two of the major factors in are becoming energy independent as a country and addressing global climate change.

[WindIsNotGreen]

You must be a energy broker sitting in front of a computer promoting your bonus for every lease signed.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

I will admit that their is major money involved, but that is the case with every mainstream industry in the US. If it were not for money no one would be interested in it. And the backing of Silicon Valley only exemplifies the fact that their is potential and money in the industry. We live in a capitalist society and I would expect nothing other from any industry. Wind is not the evil that the replies on this post portray it as.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

WindIsNotGreen, you have obviously limited your research of wind technology and its environmental and economical impacts to google and anti-wind articles. If you were to take the time to truly educate yourself on the subject you would know that renewable energy does have the potential to create new jobs locally and have a less benign impact on the environment than conventional energy sources.

[WindIsNotGreen]

If it was so technologically advanced then one 425 ft turbine should be enough. But because its a scam then you need 34 turbines to produce still nothing and make sure the wind developers get their tax benefits. On a still day 1000 turbines do nothing. On a windy day they need to be shut off.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

The technology is still advancing rapidly and will only become more efficient with time. Once wind farms, including offshore wind farms which I support more than any other kind, are abundant enough and linked together they will be able to reliably produce a steady supply of energy. Scale is the problem with wind, once it is large enough it will be brought out of the alternative energy market and into the mainstream.

[WindIsNotGreen]

well let it advance why put 10 year old wind tech up so it can burn down?

[S567KL]

Scale is one of MANY problems. caught ya in 2 statements:the tech is advancing rapidly. So, all these are already outdated-un-necessary, before the first tree is cut down.thks for telling the truth!

[S567KL]

SCALE. so the entire country should host these out-dated towers so the wind comps can someday say all the money we made off of your suffering was worth it? but all you see is buildings and turbines across the nation.sorry we had to do it to make our money and to make the numbers finally work. Oh well, sorry we RUINED and CLEAR-CUTTED the entire nation. More propaganda

[CleanGreenEnergy]

Also, if the wind energy market was to have the same level of government subsidies as dirtier energy its cost would drop making it cheaper that current grid energy produced from fossil fuels. And when coal begins to be taxed on emissions as it should be that will also drive up the cost of energy supplied by coal fired power plants. And as far as the other issues you mentioned regarding transportation be realistic.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

First, not only is this immediately a topic for another discussion since green automotive technology is advancing and will eventually solve this issue we must look at the facts. Once a wind turbine is manufactured, transported and assembled it produces no emissions hence the statement I made previously that wind produces no carbon emissions past the production stage.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

Now, all current mainstream power sources require a constant supply of fuel. Coal must be mined constantly, which is degrading to the environment as far as erosion from strip mining and atmospheric pollutants produced from the machinery used to and techniques used to mine it.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

Uranium must also be mined which as I am sure you will agree is a hazard in its self. Once mined the fuels must be transported either directly to the power plant or to processing facilities to be prepared for use.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

This transportation process also creates pollution. Once the fuels arrive at their destination to be used for energy they produce more pollution. Even with this simple outline it is easy to see which technology is cleaner. For your claims of the petroleum contained inside wind turbines I assume you are referring to the gear oil and insulating oils.

[WindIsNotGreen]

Yes so they are green? Many leak and produce devastating environmental problems and when is the payoff considering the cost of petroleum products to produce and erect a wind turbine 2120? Do you consider the people behind the tax scam? Same old snake oil salesmen since time began. Green is Green as long as the greed incentive is there. The only thing green about wind energy is the money the scammers make.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

Reports of this posing a danger are simply hate mongering tactics to persuade the uninformed to follow suit with their agendas. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing and that is exactly what the minds behind these claims relies on.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

The oil contained in turbines is mineral oil and it is virtually benign to the environment unlike the petrol derived substances used in oil fired power plants and are transported all around the globe in vulnerable tanker ships. Not to mention the strict requirement of containment set by the government for wind turbines that make the risk of spillage virtually negligible.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

All this waste will be transported through towns and cities near you. Nuclear waste remains radioactive for 10,000 to 250,000 years and it is not completely shielded during transportation.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

Say what you want about solar and wind but it beats all others in cleanliness and production to cleanliness ratio. And don't be quick to forget that since the conception of nuclear power 50 years ago there has been no method of disposing of the nuclear waste created by these power plants and starting about 2010 all that nuclear waste from the United States 103 nuclear power plants will begin being transported to the Yucca Mountain Repository for permanent storage.

[WindIsNotGreen]

Here is how green a turbine is. It contains 700 gallons of petroleum products to keep it spinning a potential environmental disaster waiting to happen. The amount of oil wasted to manufacture a turbine is in the 1000's of gallons. Then how much fuel is used to transport and erect a turbine? A LOT. On top of that they only produce a small amount of electric - how can turbine produce electric without wind?

[WindIsNotGreen]

All paid for by our tax dollars. A turbine would need to spin for 150 years before it paid itself off. And they last 5 years before they fall over or burn down.

[S567KL]

CleanGr. perhaps it's folks like YOU that are the problem with your attitude towards others that are different. Your personal attack on these folks speaks VOLUMES about your true self. I live in the woods, am VERY educated-ask my folks whom paid the tuition. YOur generalizations prove that you care about YOURSELF and not the poulation as a whole-you are JUST like the turbine comps thinking only of yourself under the cloak of the "greater good" Put one next to your house if you love them so much

[CleanGreenEnergy]

Gladly would if the opportunity was available. And as for the generalizations I made I stand by them 100%, it is closed minded individuals that fail to take the time to research an issee before condemning it. I see renewable energy as a major part of the future, one because it is an advance in technology and two we simply have no other choice. When compared to current power technologies solar and wind are a great deal cleaner and have a much more benign impact on the environment.

[S567KL]

So can honestly say that the folks whom live AMOUNG these beasets don't know the facts? They din't research? Experience, first-hand is better than believing the propaganda the wind companies put out. I think you should dig deeper to find out how these things are going up, the devastation on the land and towns all for the dollars going to the execs and the dirty politicians.

[S567KL]

It is really easy for people who live no where near these things to read some fluff and look at the propaganda with puppies and cartwheeling children licking lollipops. Please, for your own knowledge dig deeper. Don't be lazy, do research. Wind turbines are NOT the answer to the energy crisis. Nuc and coal aren't either!! All the time and TAXPAYER money spent on these boondoogles SHOULD be spent on finding the REAL solution.

[S567KL]

More powerlines, more roads, less forests (which CLEAN the air by the way), more concrete, transmission stations is not going to solve the crisis. Conservation, consuption control (population control) better cars and fuel is a good start. WAKE UP, learn for yourself, don't beleive what some rich exec. tells you to line HIS pockets

[CleanGreenEnergy]

I appreciate the chance for debate but please do your research and do not go to bat with hate mongering propaganda. When placed under the microscope this type of data is almost never substantiated, at least not by any credible peer reviewed data. The information is out their just be careful what you take for truth not all information on the web is created equal.

[S567KL]

KEy word "peer review" Peer review means CRAPOLA. Hand-shaking, back-slapping insider crap. Are you paid per keystroke to spread the propaganda or paid per lease signed? Stand behind this scam if you want, but don't skew information and spam a thread with your crap.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

It will produce new jobs, new business, and benefit the economy in the long run. I just hope that narrow minded fools who refuse to educate themselves on an issue before attacking it are not influential enough to cause any significant damage to the movement toward cleaner energy and a healthier America.

[WindIsNotGreen]

In every town in NYS where these TaxScamTowers are put up they create NO local jobs the "Energy" companies bring in their own people - rip the fuck out of the roads clear cut 1000's of acres cause water run off problems and devastate the local wildlife population.

[WindIsNotGreen]

Then they bring in people from Denmark or Germany (one or two) to maintain the spinning tax scams. No Local jobs are created. They drive down property values and kill the local economy. The only reason they are put up is the energy companies get to triple depreciate the costs meaning they get 2 times the amount of bad debt to write off against other ventures.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

I'm sorry but I can't see where any of the impacts of wind farms justify the use of old energy technology. The emerging clean renewable energy technologies could be the "New Deal" of energy.

[UniteAgainstWind]

..................... .. ... /´ /) .................... ..,../¯ ..// .................... ..../... ./ / .................... ..,/¯ ..// .................... ./... ./ / ............./´¯/' ...'/´¯`•¸ ........../'/.../... ./... ..../¨¯\ ........('(...´(... ....... ,~/'...') .........\.......... ..... ..\/..../ ..........''...\.... ..... . _.•´ ............\....... ..... ..( ..............\..... ..... ...\

[CleanGreenEnergy]

We can't eat fish because of mercury, coal miners die from black lung and mining accidents those involved in the mining, enrichment, and transportation of uranium and nuclear waste are exposed to deadly radiation which leads to death.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

But the fact remains, global warming and climate change aside, current mainstream energy production methods are dirty and their pollutants are ruining are environment as well as are health, they are causing cancer, asthma, neurological and developmental damage among other things.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

It produces no pollution past the stage of production and it is to America what oil is to Saudi Arabia. It is one of our country's most valuable natural resources and the technology of harnessing that energy is still relatively new in relation to the scale it is being used on today.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

I know I would rather have those side effects rather than an annoying shadow or the sound of a turbine. I'm sorry if I come off as condescending but please people wind energy is green energy.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

Radiation emissions into the air, nuclear waste storage, the threat of possible reactor or facility failure killing tens of thousands of people or the air pollutants of coal not to mention the mercury and sulfur pollution slowly killing their entire community all these consequences are subtle. Ignorance is seldom bliss.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

I would like to see there reactions if a nuclear or coal fired power plant was constructed in there area. Most likely they would be content because the true inconveniences of those types of facilities would not be so obvious.

[CleanGreenEnergy]

I am sorry to say but it is uneducated backwoods citizens like those portrayed in this video that are the problem with the United States. People afraid of change and unwilling to make a sacrifice for a greater good.

[RoxburyStamfordSells]

Well in a coal plant you can always put more coal in to generate electric. With a wind turbine if the wind is not blowing then they do nothing. When the wind is over 25 miles an hour for safety reasons the need to be shut off with an automatic braking system which is required. So if it takes 17 miles an hour of wind to push those big blades, and then they have to be turned off at 25 they have are a very small generator of electric.

[agreenieguy]

The real reason is that my bologna has a last name and it is C-O-2-S-U-C-K-E-R and my bologna has a first name it's C-L-E-A-N-A-I-R

[RoxburyStamfordSells]

the real reason that Goldman Sachs and other big mecantile financiers are backing the giant windmills are good old-fashioned tax breaks. The US government permits a triple depreciation for tax purposes on wind turbines, and those with enough capital can invest in tax shelters that use these depreciations to remove the tax on profits for other ventures.

[MomSaysImCool]

Oh, those poor people who have to look at a few #@!! turbines!

[WindIsNotGreen]

In a short, dramatic meeting on February 28th, the Bovina Town Board took an important first step towards banning industrial and residential wind turbines. The four board members (Tina Mole', Randy Inman, Chuck McIntosh and Ken Brown) all agreed to submit the town's draft wind ordinance to the Delaware County Planning Board for review. This amendment to local zoning law was made available to the public at the meeting

[RoxburyStamfordSells]

BOVINA TOWN BOARD ENDORSES WIND TURBINE BAN -- Feb 28, 2007 = In a short, dramatic meeting on February 28th, the Bovina Town Board took an important first step towards banning industrial and residential wind turbines. The four board members (Tina Mole', Randy Inman, Chuck McIntosh and Ken Brown) all agreed to submit the town's draft wind ordinance to the Delaware County Planning Board for review.

[RoxburyStamfordSells]

BOVINA TOWN BOARD ENDORSES WIND TURBINE BAN -- Feb 28, 2007

[RoxburyStamfordSells]

sounds good

[NoTurbinesForBovina]

For every Megawatt of "Wind" if and when it blows enough the state needs to add an equal amount of conventional standby electricity (Oil gas etc) to cover when the wind DOES not blow which does happen you can probably agree with that. The big 400 ft plus Turbines have a cut-off when the wind blows over 25 miles an hour - for safety reasons - they do have their blades fly off - they do go on fire when they do not shut off automatically.

[UniteAgainstWind]

Despite survey problems, including poor wording, lack of

definitions, biases favoring industrial turbines and other issues, the

citizens of Bovina found their way to clearly and unambiguously tell the

Bovina Town Board: DO NOT ALLOW INDUSTRIAL TURBINES IN BOVINA.

[UniteAgainstWind]

All the false and misleading claims the wind industry makes for itself work to disguise the fact that it is only a nominal producer of electricity in the eastern US. Its primary purpose is to provide extraordinary tax and income sheltering opportunities for a few wealthy investors at the expense of average taxpayers and rate payers. On a per kilowatt hour basis, wind is the most heavily subsidized source of industrialized power in the nation.

[WindIsNotGreen]

BOVINA TOWN BOARD ENDORSES WIND TURBINE BAN -- Feb 28, 2007 = In a short, dramatic meeting on February 28th, the Bovina Town Board took an important first step towards banning industrial and residential wind turbines. The four board members (Tina Mole', Randy Inman, Chuck McIntosh and Ken Brown) all agreed to submit the town's draft wind ordinance to the Delaware County Planning Board for review.