Debate on Honduras: Lanny Davis NYU Historian Greg Grandin on Democracy Now 8/7/09 1 of 4

[ale1202bat]

go away zelaya, go away hugo chavez

[poop121]

Lanny Davis is one of the most insufferable pundits/lobbyists. He just filibusters and degrades the debate with false accusations. It's too bad he's not just a pundit, or I'd feel comfortable just ignoring him.

[chepsoki]

actually lanny davis uses facts while greg grandin tries to avoid facts by comparing the legal removal of zelaya with historical events in central america yet has no proof and makes statements as if they were facts.

[studape]

Lanny Davis would be part of the coup if he was Honduran. The elites have demonized the word socialism and communism because they involve the sharing of wealth. They beleive in manipulating the governments of the world to ensure thetop 1% thast own everyrthing in their countries to keep it for themselves and then use the military and media to feed the people bullshit.

[victoriahawes]

Why is it so dangerous to do a polling?

[echo1042006]

Eventhou the goverments of most countries support Zelaya's return, the mayority of HOnduran people and the people of most countries refuse his return and it's easy for President Arias to propose Zelaya's return and for other goverment to support that for it was honduran law Zelayas broke, not theirs. So horray for the honduran institutions and the armed forces who defended the democracy in Honduras!!!!!!

[chepsoki]

Zelaya was a criminal that swore to uphold the constitution , once in office he did everything possible to ignore and walk all over the constitution. even breaking into a military base with a mob

Its funy how some idoits try to tie the levels of curropness to the interm goverment that have only been in office for less then a month ignoring the corrupness levels while zelaya was president.

[poop121]

whatever was wrong with zelaya is nothing compared to the brutality of the coup

[chepsoki]

brutallity of the coup?? as for that comment, you have to remember that fanatic radicals are exagerating whats happened, they claim 150 deaths while human rights say much much less, and are accusations only..... accusations that are coming from the side that has no morality, just remember the first days zalaya claimed rivers of blood, when there was no rivers of blood.

[chepsoki]

The only way to understand the situation is to have been following the story since before anything happened Only then can you know the truth. Zelaya tries to due things on his own, his supporters beat would beat anyone that was against zelaya . The majority of the population in Honduras DONT WANT ZELAYA BACK.

[Pinch0fSalt]

Might I ask what warped reality we live in - when 15 corrupt elites in what is deemed by most nuetral historians as a 'captive state' - can decide what is legal and illegal, via allegation, not even TRIAL - and the majority of the entire nation, who want Zelaya in office, count for nothing, and are in fact, beaten, killed and repressed. Go and study some fucking history and stop dragging the world down with your ignorance. America is the only country that doesn't condemn the coup. Funny that.

[hectorlca]

Wow, Amy has gotten so old. I miss her in Saturday Night Live.

[Gatorade723]

Zelaya is a crook, he deserves to stay out of Honduras. This isn't rocket science

[Pinch0fSalt]

Why do you fail to recognize that Zelaya wanted to take a survey and had no intention to continue to serve. That's what democracy is about. The constitution isn't set in stone.

Are you a fan of Fascism?

[chepsoki]

are you serious??? You sure thats what he wanted to do??? Read the constitution im not going to repeat myself. The executive branch has NO AUTHORITY TO DUE A POLLING THE TSE is the only institute that can do that.

[4teepee]

The Honduran elite could not win legally. So they had the military stage a fascist coup -- just like the old days.

[chepsoki]

oh ok..... but zelaya is aloud to win by fraude?? by the way what did you think of the video where zelaya admits to wining by fraud???

[4teepee]

I could find no such video.

[chepsoki]

you couldnt find it or you dont want to see the facts??

ok on youtube search: zelaya fraude

theres a list of videos there were hes being interviewed and he admits to wining by fraud.

[4teepee]

You want me to see a video, or you making things up?

[chepsoki]

i just told you how to find it... ....... its up to you if you want to see it.

in youtube search type in zelaya fraude and look at the list there are multiple ones about the same interview.

[patnais102]

Which % of the honduran population speak english?I guess it tells a lot about your social background.

[chepsoki]

ooooooooh i see this is a social thing? i guess in honduras people arent allowed to have an education. For your information a large percentage of people speak english mainly from the citys, from all ranges from poor, middle, higher class.

[patnais102]

According to the CIA fact book 0,3 % of the population speak english.Your president can't even speak english (the real one) I guess that's a large percentage for you.

[chepsoki]

well thats why we have elections and thats why we have rules and a thing called the constitution!!! you now that paper that tells you whats allowed and whats not allowed? and a dictatorship is not better then a democracy. sorry but we dont want to be the next venezuela.

[patnais102]

Of course this is social thing.People in position of power don't want to lose their priveleges.The large percentage of english speaker like you.

[patnais102]

this is a social thing*

[chepsoki]

okay i see its not about the truth its about a social thing... youve said enough. its all about envy what the dont haves wanting what the do haves and blaming conditions on them.

[chepsoki]

and what position do i have , because i speek english?  thn why do more then 80% of the population support zelayas ousting? why have there been larger and more marches for democracy (the new government) then for zelayas return?

[4teepee]

Greg Grandin should have emphasized more strongly the anger of the elite over the minimum wage increase.

Lanny Davis said those responsible for the current human rights abuses should be prosecuted. Who is he trying to fool? That would mean prosecuting the coup leaders.

[chepsoki]

maybe he should have emphasized more on the time zelayaadmitted he was breaking the law....or maybe mpore on the time zelaya said he won the elections by fraud?... or maybe more on the name of the person that was going to write the new constitution???? or maybe about the almost 500,000 votes zelaya had before the polling even started??

[4teepee]

Proof?

[REALHONDURAS]

it wont let me put a youtube link but if you type zelaya fraud on youtube youll find the video where zelaya while being interviewed admitts to wining by fraud

[REALHONDURAS]

type in 4ta urna 500 mil votos in yahoo and click the second link (elheraldo) that one exlaines the almost 400,000 votes zelaya had before the polling even started

[REALHONDURAS]

the elite? thats just a lye comunist like to use to get the poor on there side. one of the richest families (rosenthal) supported zelayas change of the constitution..... and if you want proof on that type in yahoo search "4ta urna rosenthal" and go to the third link

[4teepee]

That is a non sequitur. I was talking about the increase in the minimum wage.

[chepsoki]

if you want to take just into consideration the minimum wage then thats about the only thing he did, his problems with the law and with the people of honduras came about way before the minimum wage. the minimum wage is the only thing that came about his administration... other then that his 3 1/2 years in office brought about a higher crime rate, a failed economy, higher debt, and higher curroption levels then past administrations.

[chepsoki]

in other words your saying you prefer to ignore everything else except the minimum wage? the minimum wage did not cause his removal.

[4teepee]

The non-binding referendum is an excuse for the coup dictatorship. Follow the money!

[REALHONDURAS]

non-binding....... then why was it illegal? regardless the TSE is the only institute in Honduras that can do a polling, you cant change the laws or follow the rules only when you want to.......it was voted illegal because there was no purpose into it other then to seek reelection and a change in the constitution

[REALHONDURAS]

-ballots coming from venezuela.

- zelaya when asked what was the purpose of the polling never gave an answer when asked if he was looking for re-election never gave an answer.

- zelaya had almost 400,00 votes before the polling even started (illegally by having people sign yes on it in hospitals to recieve care).

- why did the un refuse to send observers to his illegal polling???

[chepsoki]

follow the money?

you mean latin node & chimiri(zelayas nephew inlaw)?

you mean the money taken out to pay for an illegal polling?

-you mean the $80,000 spent by zelyaya 5 days aftewr his ousting?

-you mean the illegal call center to promote false propaganda?

or you mean the statues of zelaya to be placed with the honduran four father statues??

[patnais102]

It's not a bad thing I think.What's happening right now in Honduras will give reason to Zelaya.Teachers and nurses strike is the beginning of a movement that will probably paralyze the country which will lead to the collapse of the oligarchs reign.Coup d'état are things of the past.I think they should have bring Chomsky to debate this guy, you give him 1 week to study files and get him to destroy Davis. Chomsky is unbeatable Perle and Dershowitz debates are literal demolition job.

[jetsam34]

What a childish, petulant, deceiving, belligerent douche bag. Typical Clintonite that is a conservative in liberal clothing.

Ousting a president with the popular support of the people is unjustifiable in any country. Once again the U.S. back corporate machine is imposing it's will on the lesser developed nations.

[4teepee]

The business group self-proclaimed "liberal" Lanny Davis is shilling for is not worried over a non-binding referendum on public attitudes about the limit of one term. What the group is angry about is the increase in the minimum wage to $289 per month. Davis will do anything for money.

[chepsoki]

jajajaj greg is an idoit chile,brasil,spain, nicaragua....all agree with zelaya....ALL LEFTIST SOCIALIST!!!!

[chepsoki]

As we can tell Davis is better prepared then greg..... The truth always comes out.. and Honduras acted correctly to oust a dictator.

[Pinch0fSalt]

the only dictator here is you dictating your badly misinformed assessment of events in this country. Do you know the pro Zelaya protests are being utterly repressed - the media aren't covering them, and killing their journalists?

[chepsoki]

Complete lies, The reason you think that is because you would like to see more people protesting in the streets when the truth is he doesnt have much support.

The police and the military have shown extreme profetionalism those people you say are peaceful are violent criminals that set busses and restaurants on fire, attack pro-democratic marches. ZELAYA BROKE THE LAW!

[AndrewMann552]

Davis is such a clown. Just another example of corporate, "liberal" interests defending fascism. I highly recommend Grandin's book "Empire's Workshop," an excellent chronicle of imperialism's activities down south.