1997 PBA Sr. National Championship - Laub vs. Hricsina (Pt1)

[20alphabet]

@agratias716 And you are just a plain idiot.

[20alphabet]

@dunnzo228 Reread what you typed. Indeed, half of that is my point. It IS easier to score! It requires LESS talent, skill, and ability to obtain the benchmark highs than before the BPAA took control of the ABC, turning it into the USBC and changing the game. Any sport or game has one purpose. It's to develop and improve the human. Scoring is how we measure it. To approve equipment and conditions that artificially inflate the score we nullify the effort and the game dies. Compare then and now.

[htc6600]

I've always liked Larry Laub, who, to me anyway, is the ultimate stroker. Anyone else see his resemblance to Gordon Lightfoot?

[20alphabet]

Nope... on all counts.

[dunnzo228]

But you're arguing two different things. Scores were lower in the 30s through 70s. Now they're higher. That doesn't mean the bowlers were better in the 30s through 70s, it means it was more difficult to score high, which is a different discussion. A guy with a 200 average is the best if everyone else averages 199. A guy with a 250 average is the best if everyone else averages 249. The "best" bowlers are the ones who score the highest, and that doesn't matter what the conditions or equipment are.

[20alphabet]

How can we determine who was best? It's not that difficult, really. Look back to the 30's through the 70's; during this period a 300 game or 800 series was rare, whereas now these scores are commonplace even in handicap leagues. Have bowlers improved that much? In 1971 Barry Asher set a PBA record high average of 247 for 41 games with a rubber ball against pins that weren't double-voided. That record stood for 12 years until urethane and high-density cores were approved. Coincidence?

[20alphabet]

Naw, please come on in. However, a brief reference to my previous points would be helpful. Or I'll just end up repeating the same stuff.

[dunnzo228]

@20alphabet Well I think I kinda did reference your previous points. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to think that it's the new equipment, not the talent, of guys like Hricsina that made them bowl well. Isn't the same equipment available to Asher and Durbin? And isn't part of being a good bowler adapting to the times? I hear where you're coming from, but I think Lance Armstrong is a good cyclist no matter what he's riding. The same is true for bowling to a lesser degree.

[dunnzo228]

@20alphabet Bowling has always been about change, whether it was from lacquer to oil, wood lanes to synthetics, plastic to urethane to resin, or any number of things. How can we determine who was the best? I think it's an open question, but I think Hricsina's accomplishments in the 90s on the senior tour speak for themselves and he has an argument that he was as good as any during that time.

[20alphabet]

Call it what you will. Comparing this gentleman to Barry Asher or Mike Durbin is tantamount to saying a hamburger patty is equivalent to a Porterhouse steak. Nevertheless, if this is your perspective, despite what is clearly witnessed, there is nothing I can impart that will alter it. Far be it for me to rob you of that which you hold so dear.

[dunnzo228]

@20alphabet Not to get in the middle of this or anything, but doesn't the fact that Hricsina won multiple times on the senior tour suggest that he was as good as Barry Asher or Mike Durbin or anyone else who was bowling on the senior tour at that time? And isn't part of being the best bowler adapting to new equipment and new lane surfaces? It's unclear whether the changes merely fit Hricsina's game or he worked that much harder. The bottom line is that he won, and he won many times.

[20alphabet]

One of the higher scoring players at that time, maybe. Hardly one of the best. It's agreed that he won what he did for a reason. That reason, however, has nothing to do with superior technique or skill of execution and is primarily due to technology diminishing the need for such.

[MikeHL78]

@20alphabet You and I define 'best' differently, I think. John Handegard and Gary Dickinson, with their fluid deliveries, made even better use of the technology. However, most did not, and Hricsina was not (as you believed he was) a 175 player prior to that. He was one of the Sr players with the most consistent good results from year to year from the late '80s to late '90s, ugly style or no. I would call that one of the best Sr Tour players of that time.

[sammydavisjrsr]

@20alphabet I agree. The big guy isn't very agile and doesn't have the balance at the line like the other guy.

[20alphabet]

@MikeKL78 Would you, by any chance, be a relative of this gentleman ?

[MikeHL78]

@20alphabet No, I've never met him, actually. Everything I've mentioned can be found by poking around online for about 2 minutes. I remember watching Senior Tour telecasts from this time frame, and he was one of the best players out there at that time. Larry Laub has a much more graceful and fundamentally sound style -- he's a PBA Hall of Fame player and deserves to be. My point is, Hricsina was a Sr Tour Player of the Year and won the titles he won for a reason.

[agratias716]

@20alphabet

Hrcsina is local he still averages 220 on a THS at his age what have you done? Have you won a PBA title? I bet your average is a 160 and you talk crap. Hrcsina has done it all from rubber bowling balls to reactive resin.

[20alphabet]

@MikeHL78 The cover isn't what generates the "power", and by then urethane with high-destiny cores were the new thing, giving guys like this the opportunity talent and technique didn't... your turn.

[MikeHL78]

@20alphabet He did put up at least one 800 with a plastic ball in 1979. That does not sound like a, as you put it, 175 average player in the 1960s and '70s to me.

[agratias716]

@MikeHL78

20 alphabet bashes on all good players because hes a house bowler that thinks hes the shit. Well Hrscina bowls at my local lanes and still averages 220 he would gladly take alphabets money on anyday. John has done it all from rubber to reactive resin.

[20alphabet]

@MikeHL78 Are you joking? Power game? It's the BALL that's generating the power, not him. For crying out loud, this guy could ONLY succeed in todays pathetic game. In the 60's and 70's he'd be a 175 avg at best.

[MikeHL78]

@20alphabet Do you know anything about John Hricsina? Doesn't sound like you do. He only bowled in 14 PBA national tour events in his career before joining the Senior Tour, but he cashed in 11 of them. He was also a Pennsylvania Bowling Hall of Fame member before joining the senior circuit. "This guy could only succeed in today's pathetic game."

[MikeHL78]

@20alphabet Oh, and I see now that he also set at least one Senior Tour scoring record in 1991 before there was such a thing as a reactive ball. Hadn't seen that before my initial reply.

[20alphabet]

Is bowling finished, relegated to the retro references and comic cliches? When a guy like this can finish above the likes of Barry Asher and Mike Durbin and compete with Larry Laub... enough said.

[MikeHL78]

@20alphabet Bowling may be finished, but John Hricsina wouldn't have anything to do with that. He enjoyed a LOT of success on the Senior Tour with his power game.

[joeyinempirestate]

What a great pushaway and armswing, Larry is awesome, enjoyed him in the 70's and he hasn't lost a step.

[3443bh]

A!fter all these years, You still have it Larry