James J Jeffries is my great uncle. I am very proud of him and his work. I am bigger than most kids my age (13 years old) and I have James's jaw shape. I look mostly like my father though. James Jeffries is a great boxer.
@BLICKSTEINHUGHES The only problem with your story about James J Jefferies beign your great uncle is that if your father is 62, that means James Jefferies was born 74 years old before your father was born and died just 3 years later. Now I dunno how old that makes your Grand parents but way too old to be having your dad lets just say that much.
My humble opinion on the matter of jeffries vs johnson is as follows, I believe considering all the facts, that in his prime jeffries would have beat johnson. After 6 years in retirement, having to lose 80lbs and without a single tune up fight, jeff made it to the 15th against johnson. This makes me believe jeff would have won. If jeff was alive I would apologise for many of his films being damaged or lost and I would apologise for the pathetic heavyweight division as it stands today.
@XavierMarciano -I've always said that Nat Fleishers ranking of Johnson and Jeffries as no. 1 and 2 just might be right on. It has always impressed me that Jeff was able to put up any kind of fight at all in 1910. Jeffries was so athletic along with being so big and durable that he would have given anyone hell. Jeffries would manhandle these creampuffs today.
@1899sharkey I completely agree with your statements on jeff being able to put up any fight in 1910 and him being able to dominate the fighers of today. Its a complete travesty that many think jeffries would be beat by the likes of lewis, and tyson. Jeffries was perhaps the greatest athlete to grace the heavyweight division. Without question he had almost superhuman levels of stamina. He was a tough man. He would fair well with any fighter. If nat rated him so highly he must have been great!!
@illmatic826 Np, Ali wouldn't. Ali is indeed a great boxer, but Jeffries is a little better. They have different boxing styles, and the match would probably go on for a long time.
@BLICKSTEINHUGHES just because thats your "so called" uncle you cant just sit there & say that he will beat Ali & Tyson the two best ever, because in reality jim jeffries just cant compete with those two because he had limited skills compared to Tyson & Ali.
@illmatic826 I understand that Tyson and Ali were great, and they really were! Jim Jeffries was also really great. Tyson and Ali vs. Jim Jeffries would be a match to see, but Jim Jeffries was in a different time period. Ali vs. Jim Jeffries...Jim Jeffries would win. Them Both...not sure.
It's hard to rank a fighter without clear footage of his fights, but with all these opinions by boxing experts who were around then, it's hard to doubt that Jefferies really had something...From all the fight records, and talk about him, he sounds like a turn of the century Rocky Marciano, but much taller..and maybe tougher..And going 25 rounds with other tough fighters like Tom Sharkey and Gus Ruhlin convinces me that he had stamina and heart..
Jack Johnson was ready for him when he was in his early twenties, when Jeffries was in his prime and Jeffreis knew then that he couldnt beat Johnson. Jeffries was good admitedly but over rated. Johnson exposed him and his brother Jack Jeffries as overrated white hype
@5bellies688 - Johnson was k.o.d by Choynski when he was 24 soi doubt that he was ready for Jeff in his early 20's. Imo he was the best contendor when Jeff retired but there was no money to be made from that fight. All Jack exposed in 1910 was that Jeffries was a shell of his former self. Jack Jeffries only had a couple pro fights. I rate Johnson very high all time, but not based on his win over a very bad version of Jeff.
I've always believe Jeffries' athletic ability is unquestionable but then again he retire with very few fights to his credentials and thus remembered mostly for his fight with Jack Johnson. While Jack Johnson is not at his best when the fight took place, Jeffries admit he could never beat Johnson any day even in his best. And again, the color line makes it hard to judge his true greatness. He is often hailed as the man who KO Peter Jackson, the man John L Sullivan won't fight. (continue)
@andrewr62 - I did. But I must also say that he has been overrated by a great number of boxing historians during his era. Later on, some of the most overrated facts about Jeffries are discovered, I do consider him to be one of the greatest of all time, but nowhere near the greatest. He did dominate the era, but with only 19 professional fights it's hard to tell how great he really is, and how long can he remain dominant. He is one of those all time great, I can give him that much.
@andrewr62 - Jim Corbett, although widely hailed as an all time great despite his short career, looks highly overrated. While he is considered to be ahead of his time, had his moments of greatness but nowhere near good enough with such a short career span, to be considered to be an all time great. Yeah, Ali should have retired after Thrilla in Manila. He had nothing left to prove by that time... Even more ill advised was his attempt to win the title for the 4th time, against a prime Holmes!
This is a worthless video,almost seems like its a joke. I have read about Jeffries and he was a physical phenomenon in his prime. He was over the hill when he lost to Johnson. I read he had a 15 pack a day cigarette habit and lost over a hundred pounds when he came out of retirement. Losing that kind of weight does serious damage to you muscle strength and endurance.
I'm not sure if he could have beat Johnson in his prime regardless and I feel there's little value in these folks opinions.
@mvpsmb1 - What did you do, wander on to a boxing video by mistake? This is one of the most informative vids on you tube. Go watch a Tyson k.o. highlight vid, you'll no doubt enjoy that .
Anyone who dismisses Jeff as a great fighter is an idiot. They essentially believe that because he was born in 1875 he couldn't have been any good. Lmao, Jeff could go 25 3 miute rounds. how many of todays bums with their great modern training technique could go 25? Hard times make hard men, hard men make great fighters. Jeffrries would k.o. the K' brothers both in the same nite!!!
@rabmcnab1 - This was said immediately after the loss. I suspect many/most athletes feel this way at that time. Johnson called Jeffries the greatest ever - what about that comment ?
@jhs1958 judging by this heavily slanted video, you are clearly biast. It is strange that you disregard what your idol said about Johnson, you should give the man more credit for his intelligence. And Johnson said that Jeffries was the "greatest he ever fought", not the greatest ever.
I think it is clear that Jack Johnson drew in a new era of boxing by humiliating Jim Jeffries as he did all great white hopes.
@rabmcnab1 - If you watch this video clip all the way through, you will see a page taken from THE RING interview in which Johnson told Fleischer that Jeffries was the greatest of ALL TIME.
@jhs1958 I don't see any 'page' taken from an interview. I just see a load of yellow subtitles circa 1970s.
This is just another laughable attempt where someone (you) with a biast and overly emotive sense of opinion chooses to impress their will on others. Anyone with any real boxing knowledge is laughing at you as loudly as I do.
You love the man so much, you disregard what he says about the man who humiliated him. Are you a racist, perhaps? Why not join the flat-earth society?
@rabmcnab1 - Yes, some people may be laughing but not those who really know boxing. They KNOW Jeffries was a force and that Johnson was/is over-rated. He got his reputation by beating Jeffries (who was out of fighting condition and past his peak). Hey, I have a suggestion for you - learn to read.
@rabmcnab1 - Biased ? Check out Johnson's record and also the facts. You will see that he is over-rated and that it is you who is biased !!! Yes, indeed, YOU !!!
@jhs1958 awww, hurting by that accusation are you? I guess it's familiar to you and you have not yet developed an outer layer of skin, a cell wall to resist it. Listen sunshine, we all have our favourites but the more idiotic of us try to impress it on others.
But as far as your favourite goes, you really HAVE picked a donkey! You may as well go ahead and join the flat-earth society. lol..
@jhs1958 awww, hurting by that accusation are you? I guess it's familiar to you and you have not yet developed an outer layer of skin, a cell wall to resist it. Listen sunshine, we all have our favourites but the more idiotic of us try to impress it on others.
But as far as your favourite goes, you really HAVE picked a donkey! You may as well go ahead and join the flat-earth society. lol..
@jhs1958 awww, hurting by that accusation are you? I guess it's familiar to you and you have not yet developed an outer layer of skin, a cell wall to resist it. Listen sunshine, we all have our favourites but the more idiotic of us try to impress it on others.
But as far as your favourite goes, you really HAVE picked a donkey! You may as well go ahead and join the flat-earth society. lol..
@rabmcnab1 - Not hurting at all - just consdering the source. Would rather be flat-earth society than pinhead club !!! Clearly you are a member of the new, modern revisionist club - everything is better, huh? Well, it isn't. You guys don't know what hard times are or what tough is !!! Yup, pinhead club, that's you.
@CassiusAli67 - Jeff also went fourteen rounds in his pro debut. Most fighters had to have many fights to reach that stage. He went 20 rounds or over three times, without a doubt he had the best endurance of any heavyweight champ. He's been called a combo of Frazier and Foreman.
@uncjim My grandfather said the greatest fighter of all time was Jack Dempsey. He was born in 1899. But he also said Pancho Villa (the revolutionist not the boxer) was the toughest man on earth so go figure.
More important than jeff only having 21 fights, he fought 14 rounds in his debut,won the title in his 13th bout, defended title 7 times, and retired unbeaten. He could have racked up more wins but chose to retire.
Jeffries fought the best men around - right off the bat. If he had fought more times, it would have been against lesser men - all wins likely. So, 30 more fights, 30 more wins.
@jhs1958 Jeffries ducked Johnson for years while he was champion. Jeffries never wanted to fight Johnson because he knew he would lose. Johnson punished him for that by prolonging the fight in 1910.
@MrTsb2010 - Jeffries did not DUCK Johnson. The real question is why should he have fought him? Jeffries had been champ and was ready to retire a year or two before Johnson reached top contender status. One month before Jeffries retired, Johnson lost a bout to Marvin Hart. Hmmm, a real argument as to why Jeffries should have fought him, huh?
@swr112261 - Ali did fight all of the top contenders, many of whom were good but most were really not that good - straight up fighters - easy to hit and dance away from. Crouchers (like Jeffries) gave Ali a fit. Louis fought only one black guy for the title for ? what ? the first ten years of his championship? He also fought something like 10-12 guys for the title who had lost 12 or more fights.
@swr112261 - What TOP COTENDER did Jeffries not fight ? He beat Hank Griffin, Bob Armstrong and Peter Jackson. Johnson was not there yet and had lost to Marvin Hart about a month before Jeffries retired. Langford was a welter-middleweight. Jeannette and McVea had only a handful of fights. Denver Ed Martin had a glass jaw and had lost a number of fights. Childs was a light-heavyweight.
@swr112261 Give up on this dickhead jhs1958.... he clearly has nothing else to do with his time, and given his 'argument' he is either hugely racist or hopelessly deluded. Making accusations of people's intellect and throwing abuse at the mere suspicion that someone disagrees with him... very poor show. You and I know that Jeffries shoudln't be mentioned in the same paragraph as Louis or Ali.
@rabmcnab1 - Jeffries would KO Louis and wear down Ali. Louis did not have the chin to take Jim's punches. Both were bothered by men who crouched. Lemme see now - Leon Spinks beat Ali !!! Hmmm, on Jeffries' worst day and Leon's best, Leon could not beat Jim. You may be right about Jeffries not being mentioned in the same breath with Louis and Ali - but not like you think. They were not as good.
@rabmcnab1 - Hey dogbreath, I do discriminate - but I am not racist. I am able to discern great from good, very good or only fair. Clearly, you have difficulty in doing this. Seems to be YOU are the racist here.
@jhs1958 LOL, dogbreath? You are again displaying your towering intellect over mere mortals like myself, and I am truly bewildered at what you base your claim that I am racist on.. Perhaps it is because I am not a genius who spends their life on wikipedia and who's capacity for recourse is little more than name-calling. And as for knowing 'hard times', I would be interested to hear your worldly knowledge of such things...
@rabmcnab1 - I am sorry I called you dogbreath since I truly like dogs and do not want to insult them. As to racism, you brought it up or did your towering intellect overlook this? By the way, when you called me "dickhead" was that due to your slanted value structure - looking down from your ivory tower ? Why don't you do yourself a favor and examine your own views before attacking someone else's ?
@jhs1958 Do you consider ridicule a form of attack? And my ivory tower is quite nice, thankyou. It keeps me in my rightful place - able to laugh at people like you. And 'dickhead' is a compliment..xxx
@MrTsb2010 - It seems to me that Jeffries did not fear Jognson - actually he looked down upon him as a top fighter. Why else would he have come out of retirement after six years to fight him? If he had fought Johnson any time between 1900-1905, Jeffries would have KO'd him.
Jeffries beat the best men round - early in his career. More fights against lesser men would have been wins. Besides, the number of fights doesn't make on greater or less great.
@jhs1958: Look all Jeffries did was beat guys that were waaay past their prime and time. All the guys he beat were old men when he was a young man. Jeffries fighting these old guys was equivalent to Tyson fighting Ali when Ali was old and decrepit! Jeffries wasnt anything special as it was proven when he lost to Jack Johnson by TKO!
Tell me how good the younger guys today are then - Foreman in his forties beat them. Please research your boxing history and gain a better insight into the true skills of the oldtimers. I fear you're absorbing too much hype from ESPN and HBO about today's patsies.
jesusneverexisted300 <<<--- Dang, they're at it again. Young, wet behind the ears, poorly educated - but with all the answers. No one knew anything before you young guys, right? Revisionists. You guys invented the wheel. Go get some knowledge - then come back.
While Johnson may or may not have beat jeff in their primes', its not fair to rate jeff on that fight. Inactive for 71 months, no tune up bouts, lost 80 pounds, its a miracle he lasted into the 15th.
@jesusneverexisted300 : and yet Jeffries was out of the ring 6 years and had to lose 80 pounds when he fought Johnson. What was "proven" by that? Besides, Sharkey, Ruehlin, Corbett etc were hardly "waay past their primes". jeffries was a great fighter in his time and given his physical attributes-height, weight etc- he would have done very well with todays heavyweights.
1) Sugar Ray Robinson, 2) Muhammad Ali, 3) Joe Louis, 4) Jack Johnson, 5) Henry Armstrong, 6) Sugar Ray Leonard, 7) Willie Pep, 8) SamLangford, 9) Julio Cesar Chaves, 10) Roberto Duran, 11) Archie Moore, 12) Big George Foreman, 13) Joe Gans, 14) Jack Dempsey, 15) Gene Tunney
Had Jeffries amassed his record by beating all of the top black contenders then I would admit that he was indeed one of the greatest (despite the loss to Johnson). But imagine if no black fighter had been allowed to receive a title shot in the 70's....that would mean that some one like Jerry Quarry would have emerged as Champion. So on this basis I would put Jeffries on a par with Quarry, not Joe Louis, Johnson or ALi
Please tell me which great black fighters Jeffries did not fight. He fought Griffin, Jackson and Armstrong. Jeannete and McVey were just getting started. Langford was a lightweight-welterweight at the time. Johnson had lost a couple of times to Griffin, knocked around by Sandy Ferguson and defeated by Marvin Hart. So who?
Jeffries is criticized for not fighting a black man for the title. Well, Johnson had ten heavyweight title fights and fought only one black man - a former sparring partner who traveled with him. He drew the "color line" too.
Louis fought one black man (John Henry Lewis) during the ten years following his winning the title - only one. At the end of his career, he fought Walcott twice and Charles once. If you check the records of the men Louis fought for the title, 14 guys had ten or more losses when he fought them. Some had as many as 16, 17, 20, 23, 23 and 40 losses.
Jeffries had been out of boxing for over six years, he had put on nearly a hundred pounds believe it or not and he was getting up there in age, and while no one can ever say that Jeffries could have beaten Johnson while jeffries was in his prime, it couldn't have hurt Jeffries chances to have fought him before he retired to his rhubarb farm or whatever the fuck it was, Its like Ali getting trounced by Holmes, and Ali had only been out for 1year. Jeffries had been out6, and little time to prepare
PeterMarkAzzopardi -- Fitz fought a great fight because he was a great fighter - something you seem to dismiss. It is quite doubtful if Ali was a harder hitter than Fitzsimmons. The quality of the gloves they used enabled more serious cuts and damage. The damage you say Fitz did is exaggerated - lots of blood, yes, from the cuts.
PeterMarkAzzopardi -- Jeffries had cuts about each eye and a split lip. He was bleeding from these cuts and from his nose and this made him look bad. But, Fitz had a cut and swollen right eye. His ribs was in pain and red. Reportedly, he injured or broke his hands on Jeffries' head.
PeterMarkAzzopardi -- Jeffries looked like he did because of his style of fighing - and Fitz was a great fighter and hitter. I dare say Marciano, Liston, Frazier and Foreman would have great difficulty hitting Fitz in the larger ring used against Jeffries and they would be cut up and bleeding too.
PeterMarkAzzopardi -- Jeffries fought Fitz in a larger ring than used today so Fitz had more room to move. So Jeffries' weight wasn't that big a factor. You're wrong on the weights for that fight. Reports of the fighters' weights vary, especially Fitz's. Local papers reported weights for Fitz at 160, 168, 180 and 190 lbs. None said 154 lbs.
PeterMarkAzzopardi -- Fitz even commented that he weighed 185 lbs for that fight. Famous sportswriter Naughton even said that Fitz looked about 190 lbs for that fight. Whatever the weight difference, that didn't affect Fitz's great hitting power.
PeterMarkAzzopardi -- Ali is tremendously overrated - lots of hype - you guys need a modern hero. Ali lost five fights officially and probably four more - if truth be known (Norton #2 & #3, Young, Frazier #2). Ali lost to Leon Spinks (this should say it all). On Spinks' best day and Jeffries' worst day, Spinks wouldn't beat Jeffries.
PeterMarkAzzopardi -- Against Jeffries, Ali would have to move for the entire fight, not lolly-gag on the ropes and rest. Against Jeffries, Ali would have to fight for more than the first 30 seconds and the last 30 seconds. Even if Ali could beat Jeffries, that doesn't necessarily make him the better fighter. Kansas City beats the Yankees in baseball but are they better?
I'll admit that Jeffries was a terrific natural athlete but he cannot be entered into the pantheon of greats because he never fought the best of his era (which would've been several of the black top contenders frozen out of title contention due to race).
The opinions in this film are clearly not impartial and are about as un biased as the jury that found Jack Johnson guilty of violating the Mann Act...READ THE FACTS!!!
Over rated, all the black fighters in his prime were the best but he ducked them and when he did finally fight a black he was destroyed. 11 stone Bob Fitzsimons stuck it all over him and shattered every bone in his face so wtf do u think Foreman and all the others would've done?! better than Joe Louis?! LMAO!!!!
In 1902, he and Jeffries had a rematch. Fitzsimmons battered Jeffries, who suffered horrible punishment. With his nose and cheek-bones broken, most would have sympathised with Jeffries had he quit, but he kept going until his enormous weight advantage told and Bob suffered a knockout in round eight. Jeffries weight 15 stone Bob weighed 11 stone. So how the hell have beaten Ali who was taller, heavier and better in every way than Fitzsimmons?!!!!! oh yeah because I'm biased hey?!
Well. This was obviously recorded some time ago. Even Jeff would look tiny by todays standards. The suggestion that he was the greatest heavyweight is obviously based on people that lived (and died) before the 70's (perhaps the greatest era of heavyweights). It would be interesting to see him in with the likes of Foreman or Ali but it its very unlikely that he would have prevailed...
Foreman would have to hit Jeffries harder than most guys. He would be getting hit by blockbuster punches too. I think he would wear out quicker than Jeffries. Jeffries by a TKO over Foreman.
In my view, Ali is a very overrated boxer. He lost 5 official bouts, should have lost 3-4 more if judged properly. Hell, even Leon Spinks beat him. So, just how great is he ? Not that great.
Finally, I suspect that even today's heavyweights would fight at least 15-20 pounds lighter if they trained rigorously. Size is overrated anyhow. Jeffries how enough size, power, chin, stamina. The way you guys talk about size, I pity a PIT BULL in a dog fight but ... you know !!!
this is a tough one. it wouldn't be a one sided affair at all. i think jeffries could hit harder and had a better chin but johnson had great agility and good hand speed was probably more dextrous too. i would put money on jeffries but not alot of money as that would be a very close one. imagine it going for 20+ rounds!! awesome!!
Jeff was great, though I agree with MDAC: Johnson was better though a fight in their prime would have been less lopsided. JHS I never saw that Johnson said Jeff was better, I read something more like the opposite (Jeff said he couldn't have beaten Jackson when he was at his peak). Nat Fleischer who's quoted here rated Johnson and Jeffries 1&2 respectively. But I still love reading about jeffries and hope google is able to post his autobio which I haven't been able to find for less than $2000.
I'll take your word for it. Seems they were both magnanimous and had respect for each other. My money would still be on Jackson if they met in their prime. I don't know if my dream of reading 2 fisted Jeff will ever come true, it's not on google books and might have come out just after the change in copyright rules (1929).
Johnson was a better fighter, but you can't take anything from their fight together. If you go by that fight, than Maricano was better than Louis and Holmes was better than Ali. I think in their prime, Johnson still wins, but it's a much better fight.
The Jefferies that fought Johnson was a shell of himself. And Jefferies, in his prime, was strong as an ox and had a punchers chance to beat anyone. But I don't agree that there is no way Johnson could beat him in his prime. Too strong? I guess Foreman was too strong for Ali and Tyson was too strong for Holyfield also. Johnson too was a great fighter, and to diminish him because he beat a washed up Jefferies is not right either.
MDAC1012, Foreman had poor stamina and Tyson poor judgement. Jeffries was better than both. Johnson got his eputation by beating the OLD Jeffries. Jeffries in his prime wins.
I appreciate your defense of Jeffferies, I am a Jefferies fan too and having been telling people for years that it is unfair to judge his career on a fight he had when he was washed up (again, like judging an old Ali or Louis) but I still think you are underestimating Johnson. I just don't think it is as hands down as you make it out to be.
Of course he would have. Jeffries was great, and one of the strongest punchers in boxing history, but Johnson is one of the best heavyweights period. Johnsons jabs and right uppercuts would have totally dismantled a prime Jeffries and his crouch style. Plus Johnson wasn't at his prime against Jeffries. In a prime Johnson vs. prime Jeffries match, Johnson wins. Thats how I see it at least
Reznick8, we see it differently. Johnson got is rep by beating an OLD Jeffries. Johnson had been KO'd twice and beaten by Hart and Griffin. Jeff was unbetaen. Prime Jeffies wins.
an undeveloped johnsons got KO'd by Choynski this is true. But Choynski taught johnson a lot of new tricks and methods that would serve johnson in his future bouts. Hart was a newpaper win for Johnson, Hart was a bloody mess after the fight and Johnson hadn't a single mark on him.
@jhs1958 While I do not question Big Jeff's athleticism, strength, or endurance there are 3 reasons for him being a litte overated
1.He only won 18 pro fights.
2.There is a lack of good quality film in which to make a realistic assessment of his ability.
3.His punching power is over rated based on his record. The claim that he hit as hard as Foreman or Liston seems nonsensical based on an overall lack of early round knockouts. Jeff wore down his opposition he did not overpower them early.
actually coming to think about this again.....foggy223334 comment explains this well...This is one of the reasons why i think johnson is better besides johnson beating him.i don't even rank jeffries in the top 5 boxers of all time
As to who was better, listen to Jeffries himself who clearly stated after being beaten by Johnson, that even in his prime he still could not have beaten Jack Johnson. He was just too Strong.
Johnson is better than jeffries...simply becasue he whipped his ass for the title...regardless if he came out of retirement or not....so if anyone is going to have a list----johnson has to be before him because he beat him....in order to be the best- u have to beat the beat.......and thats exactly what johnson did
You never read my comments ... Jefferies recanted that comment shortly after and he was frustrated that he was strongly encouraged to comeback. Langford called Jefferies the greatest heavyweight ever and in Johnson's biography, he ranked Jefferies #1 and him #2.
At this point, I capitulate. You are right and I am wrong. Jack Johnson was a weak fighter. Actually he was a terrible fighter. The writers back then were correct: he was deceptive, animalistic, cowardly in the ring. He was lucky to beat all those guys back then. And Jim Jeffries did not owe him a chance at the title during his prime because Johnson was beneath him. Jack Johnson was a bum and a horrible human being.
This is the 2nd time in a row I am debating with someone who knows very little and can not answer the questions I ask. Johnson was about 29-5-5 prior to 1906. From 1906 until he lost to Willard he won every fight (except he lost to Willard). During Jefferies reign, Johnson was not a top contender, he lost to a very mediore Hart, was KO'd by a light-heavy past his prime, was beaten by an old vetrean who sparred with Jefferies from time to time
and was DQ in a fight and was KO'd prior to 1900 early in his career. So, here is my last attempt ... by what means did Johnson deserve a fight at the title ... he clearly was not a top 3 contender from 1899-1904. And if you do decide to answer the question ... why did Johynson aboid the top 3 contenders in hbis reign and avid the top white fighetrs as well ???
Took seven years and a whole lot of persecution by bitter people who had a bit too personal interest tide up into white supremacy to finally wear the man down before Jack Johnson lost to Jess WIllard.
But since you are all on Jim Jeffries' crotch, even you know that even he admitted that Jack Johnson would have beaten him even at his best. However, I see that you are suppressing that because it would undermine the point of this video.
Jim Jeffries himself. He had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity to fight Jack Johnson during his so-called "prime" but would not give Johnson the chance. Put it all into the perspective of more than one hundred years and the fact the other white men fought again Johnson, Mr. Jeffries really doesn't look so good now.
Hi there, read my comments on the site "Jim Jeffries' Career Record" as it clearly indicates why Johnson did not deserve a title chance from 1899 to 1904. If you have any valid points on this, kindly let me know. I am hoping you are of sound reason unlike the gemtlemen I was debating with who said Johnson lost 2 fights etc.
You go uncle, so proud.
whatthehell923 3 months ago
Jeffries would have killed overrated ogre Johnson in his prime.
crowley0312 3 months ago
James J Jeffries is my great uncle. I am very proud of him and his work. I am bigger than most kids my age (13 years old) and I have James's jaw shape. I look mostly like my father though. James Jeffries is a great boxer.
BLICKSTEINHUGHES 7 months ago
@BLICKSTEINHUGHES - Jeffries kicked ass, not got his kicked. U R very WRONG !!!
jhs1958 6 months ago
@jhs1958 Exactly that is what I am saying. Jeffries was one of the best, if not the best, heavyweight boxers.
BLICKSTEINHUGHES 6 months ago
@BLICKSTEINHUGHES - Oh, OK, I agree with you !!!
jhs1958 6 months ago
@BLICKSTEINHUGHES The only problem with your story about James J Jefferies beign your great uncle is that if your father is 62, that means James Jefferies was born 74 years old before your father was born and died just 3 years later. Now I dunno how old that makes your Grand parents but way too old to be having your dad lets just say that much.
pelefan06 5 months ago
@pelefan06 Great great unclesorry about that. Forgot the great....forgive me.
BLICKSTEINHUGHES 5 months ago
My humble opinion on the matter of jeffries vs johnson is as follows, I believe considering all the facts, that in his prime jeffries would have beat johnson. After 6 years in retirement, having to lose 80lbs and without a single tune up fight, jeff made it to the 15th against johnson. This makes me believe jeff would have won. If jeff was alive I would apologise for many of his films being damaged or lost and I would apologise for the pathetic heavyweight division as it stands today.
XavierMarciano 8 months ago
@XavierMarciano -I've always said that Nat Fleishers ranking of Johnson and Jeffries as no. 1 and 2 just might be right on. It has always impressed me that Jeff was able to put up any kind of fight at all in 1910. Jeffries was so athletic along with being so big and durable that he would have given anyone hell. Jeffries would manhandle these creampuffs today.
1899sharkey 8 months ago
@1899sharkey I completely agree with your statements on jeff being able to put up any fight in 1910 and him being able to dominate the fighers of today. Its a complete travesty that many think jeffries would be beat by the likes of lewis, and tyson. Jeffries was perhaps the greatest athlete to grace the heavyweight division. Without question he had almost superhuman levels of stamina. He was a tough man. He would fair well with any fighter. If nat rated him so highly he must have been great!!
XavierMarciano 8 months ago 2
@XavierMarciano agreed.
TomSouthLondon 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Worst boxing video ever. I could have handled the 3 second gap between sentences if there had been some actual boxing footage to be shown.
5ilasTheViru5 8 months ago
Worst boxing video ever. I could have handled the 3 second gap between sentences if there had been some actual boxing footage to be shown.
5ilasTheViru5 8 months ago
Ali would beat his ass
illmatic826 9 months ago
@illmatic826 Np, Ali wouldn't. Ali is indeed a great boxer, but Jeffries is a little better. They have different boxing styles, and the match would probably go on for a long time.
BLICKSTEINHUGHES 7 months ago
@BLICKSTEINHUGHES boy you crazy
illmatic826 7 months ago
@BLICKSTEINHUGHES man just give it up that bum jim jeffries would get his ass beat all across the ring by Iron Mike Tyson & Ali
illmatic826 7 months ago
@illmatic826 Sorry, that world champion James Jeffries, or my great uncle, would crush mike tyson and ali on any day.
BLICKSTEINHUGHES 7 months ago
@BLICKSTEINHUGHES just because thats your "so called" uncle you cant just sit there & say that he will beat Ali & Tyson the two best ever, because in reality jim jeffries just cant compete with those two because he had limited skills compared to Tyson & Ali.
illmatic826 7 months ago
@illmatic826 I understand that Tyson and Ali were great, and they really were! Jim Jeffries was also really great. Tyson and Ali vs. Jim Jeffries would be a match to see, but Jim Jeffries was in a different time period. Ali vs. Jim Jeffries...Jim Jeffries would win. Them Both...not sure.
BLICKSTEINHUGHES 7 months ago
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1899sharkey 7 months ago
@illmatic826 - Ridiculous !!! Jeffries would whip both of them, maybe kill Tyson since he couldn't run !!!
jhs1958 6 months ago
It's hard to rank a fighter without clear footage of his fights, but with all these opinions by boxing experts who were around then, it's hard to doubt that Jefferies really had something...From all the fight records, and talk about him, he sounds like a turn of the century Rocky Marciano, but much taller..and maybe tougher..And going 25 rounds with other tough fighters like Tom Sharkey and Gus Ruhlin convinces me that he had stamina and heart..
jliles27 11 months ago
Correction to the previous comment- Johnson was 1 month shy of being 23 when Choynski k.o.d him.
1899sharkey 11 months ago
Jack Johnson was ready for him when he was in his early twenties, when Jeffries was in his prime and Jeffreis knew then that he couldnt beat Johnson. Jeffries was good admitedly but over rated. Johnson exposed him and his brother Jack Jeffries as overrated white hype
5bellies688 11 months ago
@5bellies688 - Johnson was k.o.d by Choynski when he was 24 soi doubt that he was ready for Jeff in his early 20's. Imo he was the best contendor when Jeff retired but there was no money to be made from that fight. All Jack exposed in 1910 was that Jeffries was a shell of his former self. Jack Jeffries only had a couple pro fights. I rate Johnson very high all time, but not based on his win over a very bad version of Jeff.
1899sharkey 11 months ago
I've always believe Jeffries' athletic ability is unquestionable but then again he retire with very few fights to his credentials and thus remembered mostly for his fight with Jack Johnson. While Jack Johnson is not at his best when the fight took place, Jeffries admit he could never beat Johnson any day even in his best. And again, the color line makes it hard to judge his true greatness. He is often hailed as the man who KO Peter Jackson, the man John L Sullivan won't fight. (continue)
expressivechild 1 year ago
@expressivechild I personally don't feel Jeffries was the best off all time. Jeffries is best known for his loss
to Johnson only to those who are uninformed about his career. He dominated his era against many of the
biggest names in boxing history. His record is dotted with legendary names, Corbett, Fitzsimmons, Choynski,
Sharkey, Jackson. At least give him is due.
andrewr62 1 year ago
@andrewr62 - I did. But I must also say that he has been overrated by a great number of boxing historians during his era. Later on, some of the most overrated facts about Jeffries are discovered, I do consider him to be one of the greatest of all time, but nowhere near the greatest. He did dominate the era, but with only 19 professional fights it's hard to tell how great he really is, and how long can he remain dominant. He is one of those all time great, I can give him that much.
expressivechild 1 year ago
@expressivechild I do agree it's hard to crown all time greatness based on such a short career. I personally
feel that way about Jim Corbett who may have the fewest number of fights before becoming heavyweight
champion (except for Leon Spinks who embarrassed the poorly aging Ali).
andrewr62 1 year ago
@andrewr62 - Jim Corbett, although widely hailed as an all time great despite his short career, looks highly overrated. While he is considered to be ahead of his time, had his moments of greatness but nowhere near good enough with such a short career span, to be considered to be an all time great. Yeah, Ali should have retired after Thrilla in Manila. He had nothing left to prove by that time... Even more ill advised was his attempt to win the title for the 4th time, against a prime Holmes!
expressivechild 1 year ago
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expressivechild 1 year ago
This is a worthless video,almost seems like its a joke. I have read about Jeffries and he was a physical phenomenon in his prime. He was over the hill when he lost to Johnson. I read he had a 15 pack a day cigarette habit and lost over a hundred pounds when he came out of retirement. Losing that kind of weight does serious damage to you muscle strength and endurance.
I'm not sure if he could have beat Johnson in his prime regardless and I feel there's little value in these folks opinions.
mvpsmb1 1 year ago
@mvpsmb1 - What did you do, wander on to a boxing video by mistake? This is one of the most informative vids on you tube. Go watch a Tyson k.o. highlight vid, you'll no doubt enjoy that .
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey I hope your joking.
mvpsmb1 1 year ago
Anyone who dismisses Jeff as a great fighter is an idiot. They essentially believe that because he was born in 1875 he couldn't have been any good. Lmao, Jeff could go 25 3 miute rounds. how many of todays bums with their great modern training technique could go 25? Hard times make hard men, hard men make great fighters. Jeffrries would k.o. the K' brothers both in the same nite!!!
1899sharkey 1 year ago 6
How good was Jeffries? VERY GOOD. Anybody who disagrees needs to review boxing history.
Rockyfan10060 1 year ago
... the greatest of all time
-Jack Johnson, speaking of Jim Jeffries, 1946
jhs1958 1 year ago
"I could never have beat him even at my best. I couldn't have reached him in a thousand years"
- Jim Jeffries, speaking of Jack Johnson
rabmcnab1 1 year ago
@rabmcnab1 - This was said immediately after the loss. I suspect many/most athletes feel this way at that time. Johnson called Jeffries the greatest ever - what about that comment ?
jhs1958 1 year ago
@jhs1958 judging by this heavily slanted video, you are clearly biast. It is strange that you disregard what your idol said about Johnson, you should give the man more credit for his intelligence. And Johnson said that Jeffries was the "greatest he ever fought", not the greatest ever.
I think it is clear that Jack Johnson drew in a new era of boxing by humiliating Jim Jeffries as he did all great white hopes.
rabmcnab1 1 year ago
@rabmcnab1 - If you watch this video clip all the way through, you will see a page taken from THE RING interview in which Johnson told Fleischer that Jeffries was the greatest of ALL TIME.
jhs1958 1 year ago
@jhs1958 I don't see any 'page' taken from an interview. I just see a load of yellow subtitles circa 1970s.
This is just another laughable attempt where someone (you) with a biast and overly emotive sense of opinion chooses to impress their will on others. Anyone with any real boxing knowledge is laughing at you as loudly as I do.
You love the man so much, you disregard what he says about the man who humiliated him. Are you a racist, perhaps? Why not join the flat-earth society?
rabmcnab1 1 year ago
@rabmcnab1 - Yes, some people may be laughing but not those who really know boxing. They KNOW Jeffries was a force and that Johnson was/is over-rated. He got his reputation by beating Jeffries (who was out of fighting condition and past his peak). Hey, I have a suggestion for you - learn to read.
jhs1958 1 year ago
@rabmcnab1 - Biased ? Check out Johnson's record and also the facts. You will see that he is over-rated and that it is you who is biased !!! Yes, indeed, YOU !!!
jhs1958 1 year ago
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rabmcnab1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jhs1958 awww, hurting by that accusation are you? I guess it's familiar to you and you have not yet developed an outer layer of skin, a cell wall to resist it. Listen sunshine, we all have our favourites but the more idiotic of us try to impress it on others.
But as far as your favourite goes, you really HAVE picked a donkey! You may as well go ahead and join the flat-earth society. lol..
rabmcnab1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jhs1958 awww, hurting by that accusation are you? I guess it's familiar to you and you have not yet developed an outer layer of skin, a cell wall to resist it. Listen sunshine, we all have our favourites but the more idiotic of us try to impress it on others.
But as far as your favourite goes, you really HAVE picked a donkey! You may as well go ahead and join the flat-earth society. lol..
rabmcnab1 1 year ago
@jhs1958 awww, hurting by that accusation are you? I guess it's familiar to you and you have not yet developed an outer layer of skin, a cell wall to resist it. Listen sunshine, we all have our favourites but the more idiotic of us try to impress it on others.
But as far as your favourite goes, you really HAVE picked a donkey! You may as well go ahead and join the flat-earth society. lol..
rabmcnab1 1 year ago
@rabmcnab1 - Not hurting at all - just consdering the source. Would rather be flat-earth society than pinhead club !!! Clearly you are a member of the new, modern revisionist club - everything is better, huh? Well, it isn't. You guys don't know what hard times are or what tough is !!! Yup, pinhead club, that's you.
jhs1958 1 year ago
Unfortunately, Jeffries was all but forgotten when Joe Louis and Ali came on the scene. Really disappointing considering his skills as a boxer.
Rockyfan10060 1 year ago
Would've LOVED to have seen James J. Jeffries Vs Rocky Marciano. (It' won't go passed one round.)
TheSpoiler001 1 year ago
@TheSpoiler001 - Oh, I dunno. I suspect it would go further - maybe the distance. These guys had granite for chins.
jhs1958 1 year ago
@jhs1958: Do you think Jeffries could have beaten Jack Dempsey?
jesusneverexisted300 1 year ago
@jesusneverexisted300 - Yes.
jhs1958 1 year ago
@jesusneverexisted300 - Yes, Jeffries would have beaten Dempsey.
jhs1958 1 year ago
@jhs1958 You have either lost your mind or you are related to jeffries.
jesusneverexisted300 1 year ago
@jesusneverexisted300 - Well, I'm not related to Jeffries.
jhs1958 1 year ago
If I remember correcty, Jeffries won the Heavtweight ttile from Fitzsimmons in only his 13th fight.
CassiusAli67 1 year ago
@CassiusAli67 - Jeff also went fourteen rounds in his pro debut. Most fighters had to have many fights to reach that stage. He went 20 rounds or over three times, without a doubt he had the best endurance of any heavyweight champ. He's been called a combo of Frazier and Foreman.
1899sharkey 1 year ago
When I was a kid (I'm 63 today) I asked my Grandfather who he thought was the greatest boxer and he stated without hesitation.."Jim Jeffries".
uncjim 1 year ago 8
@uncjim - Your grandfather was a very smart man!!!
1899sharkey 1 year ago
Thank you.
uncjim 1 year ago
@uncjim Sir, you remind me of my father. We are related to James Jeffries. Right now my father is 62 years old...
BLICKSTEINHUGHES 7 months ago
@BLICKSTEINHUGHES - Wrong !!!
jhs1958 6 months ago
@uncjim My grandfather said the greatest fighter of all time was Jack Dempsey. He was born in 1899. But he also said Pancho Villa (the revolutionist not the boxer) was the toughest man on earth so go figure.
andrewr62 6 months ago
More important than jeff only having 21 fights, he fought 14 rounds in his debut,won the title in his 13th bout, defended title 7 times, and retired unbeaten. He could have racked up more wins but chose to retire.
TheRichmich 1 year ago
Jeffries fought the best men around - right off the bat. If he had fought more times, it would have been against lesser men - all wins likely. So, 30 more fights, 30 more wins.
jhs1958 1 year ago
@jhs1958 Jeffries ducked Johnson for years while he was champion. Jeffries never wanted to fight Johnson because he knew he would lose. Johnson punished him for that by prolonging the fight in 1910.
MrTsb2010 1 year ago
@MrTsb2010 - Jeffries did not DUCK Johnson. The real question is why should he have fought him? Jeffries had been champ and was ready to retire a year or two before Johnson reached top contender status. One month before Jeffries retired, Johnson lost a bout to Marvin Hart. Hmmm, a real argument as to why Jeffries should have fought him, huh?
jhs1958 1 year ago
A real champion fights all top contenders, as Ali and Louis did.
swr112261 1 year ago
@swr112261 - Ali did fight all of the top contenders, many of whom were good but most were really not that good - straight up fighters - easy to hit and dance away from. Crouchers (like Jeffries) gave Ali a fit. Louis fought only one black guy for the title for ? what ? the first ten years of his championship? He also fought something like 10-12 guys for the title who had lost 12 or more fights.
jhs1958 1 year ago
@swr112261 - What TOP COTENDER did Jeffries not fight ? He beat Hank Griffin, Bob Armstrong and Peter Jackson. Johnson was not there yet and had lost to Marvin Hart about a month before Jeffries retired. Langford was a welter-middleweight. Jeannette and McVea had only a handful of fights. Denver Ed Martin had a glass jaw and had lost a number of fights. Childs was a light-heavyweight.
jhs1958 1 year ago
@swr112261 Give up on this dickhead jhs1958.... he clearly has nothing else to do with his time, and given his 'argument' he is either hugely racist or hopelessly deluded. Making accusations of people's intellect and throwing abuse at the mere suspicion that someone disagrees with him... very poor show. You and I know that Jeffries shoudln't be mentioned in the same paragraph as Louis or Ali.
rabmcnab1 1 year ago
@rabmcnab1 - Jeffries would KO Louis and wear down Ali. Louis did not have the chin to take Jim's punches. Both were bothered by men who crouched. Lemme see now - Leon Spinks beat Ali !!! Hmmm, on Jeffries' worst day and Leon's best, Leon could not beat Jim. You may be right about Jeffries not being mentioned in the same breath with Louis and Ali - but not like you think. They were not as good.
jhs1958 1 year ago
@jhs1958 I'm really creasing myself with laughter here... I almost feel sorry for you now...X'-]
rabmcnab1 1 year ago
@rabmcnab1 - Hey dogbreath, I do discriminate - but I am not racist. I am able to discern great from good, very good or only fair. Clearly, you have difficulty in doing this. Seems to be YOU are the racist here.
jhs1958 1 year ago
@jhs1958 LOL, dogbreath? You are again displaying your towering intellect over mere mortals like myself, and I am truly bewildered at what you base your claim that I am racist on.. Perhaps it is because I am not a genius who spends their life on wikipedia and who's capacity for recourse is little more than name-calling. And as for knowing 'hard times', I would be interested to hear your worldly knowledge of such things...
rabmcnab1 1 year ago
@rabmcnab1 - I am sorry I called you dogbreath since I truly like dogs and do not want to insult them. As to racism, you brought it up or did your towering intellect overlook this? By the way, when you called me "dickhead" was that due to your slanted value structure - looking down from your ivory tower ? Why don't you do yourself a favor and examine your own views before attacking someone else's ?
jhs1958 1 year ago
@jhs1958 Do you consider ridicule a form of attack? And my ivory tower is quite nice, thankyou. It keeps me in my rightful place - able to laugh at people like you. And 'dickhead' is a compliment..xxx
rabmcnab1 1 year ago
@MrTsb2010 - It seems to me that Jeffries did not fear Jognson - actually he looked down upon him as a top fighter. Why else would he have come out of retirement after six years to fight him? If he had fought Johnson any time between 1900-1905, Jeffries would have KO'd him.
jhs1958 1 year ago
Jeffries himself said that he couldn't have beaten Johnson at his best.
swr112261 1 year ago
@swr112261 - Johnson himself said that Jeffries was the grfeatest of all time
jhs1958 1 year ago
Jeffries only fought 21 fights and ya'll wanna put him in as one of the all time greats?? C'mon man, get real!
jesusneverexisted300 1 year ago
No, not just one of the all time greats -- #1 !
jhs1958 1 year ago
Are you serious? You must be related to him huhn?
jesusneverexisted300 1 year ago
No, not kin. Just recognize the real thing - and - Jesus existed !
jhs1958 1 year ago
lol, you give me one good reason why you think he should be number one or even should be mention as one of the all time greats.
jesusneverexisted300 1 year ago
Jeffries beat the best men round - early in his career. More fights against lesser men would have been wins. Besides, the number of fights doesn't make on greater or less great.
jhs1958 1 year ago
@jhs1958: Look all Jeffries did was beat guys that were waaay past their prime and time. All the guys he beat were old men when he was a young man. Jeffries fighting these old guys was equivalent to Tyson fighting Ali when Ali was old and decrepit! Jeffries wasnt anything special as it was proven when he lost to Jack Johnson by TKO!
jesusneverexisted300 1 year ago
Tell me how good the younger guys today are then - Foreman in his forties beat them. Please research your boxing history and gain a better insight into the true skills of the oldtimers. I fear you're absorbing too much hype from ESPN and HBO about today's patsies.
jhs1958 1 year ago
PS. Who did Johnson beat when he beat Jeffries - an old man, past his prime. Do you put down Johnson too?
jhs1958 1 year ago 4
jesusneverexisted300 <<<--- Dang, they're at it again. Young, wet behind the ears, poorly educated - but with all the answers. No one knew anything before you young guys, right? Revisionists. You guys invented the wheel. Go get some knowledge - then come back.
jhs1958 1 year ago
@jhs1958: Wow you dissed me without sending the comment directly to me. Wow what class.
jesusneverexisted300 1 year ago
@jesusneverexisted300 - Sorry about that !!!
jhs1958 1 year ago
@jhs1958 By the way Jeffries was 3 years older than Johnson.
MrTsb2010 1 year ago
While Johnson may or may not have beat jeff in their primes', its not fair to rate jeff on that fight. Inactive for 71 months, no tune up bouts, lost 80 pounds, its a miracle he lasted into the 15th.
TheRichmich 1 year ago
@jesusneverexisted300 : and yet Jeffries was out of the ring 6 years and had to lose 80 pounds when he fought Johnson. What was "proven" by that? Besides, Sharkey, Ruehlin, Corbett etc were hardly "waay past their primes". jeffries was a great fighter in his time and given his physical attributes-height, weight etc- he would have done very well with todays heavyweights.
smemr 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
15 Greatest Boxers of All Time:
1) Sugar Ray Robinson, 2) Muhammad Ali, 3) Joe Louis, 4) Jack Johnson, 5) Henry Armstrong, 6) Sugar Ray Leonard, 7) Willie Pep, 8) SamLangford, 9) Julio Cesar Chaves, 10) Roberto Duran, 11) Archie Moore, 12) Big George Foreman, 13) Joe Gans, 14) Jack Dempsey, 15) Gene Tunney
jesusneverexisted300 1 year ago
Jeffries was an all time great, he belongs in the top ten.Just read the new book on him(ultimate tough guy) great read for the true boxing fan.
TheRichmich 2 years ago
Had Jeffries amassed his record by beating all of the top black contenders then I would admit that he was indeed one of the greatest (despite the loss to Johnson). But imagine if no black fighter had been allowed to receive a title shot in the 70's....that would mean that some one like Jerry Quarry would have emerged as Champion. So on this basis I would put Jeffries on a par with Quarry, not Joe Louis, Johnson or ALi
PeterMarkAzzopardi 2 years ago
Please tell me which great black fighters Jeffries did not fight. He fought Griffin, Jackson and Armstrong. Jeannete and McVey were just getting started. Langford was a lightweight-welterweight at the time. Johnson had lost a couple of times to Griffin, knocked around by Sandy Ferguson and defeated by Marvin Hart. So who?
jhs1958 2 years ago
Jeffries is criticized for not fighting a black man for the title. Well, Johnson had ten heavyweight title fights and fought only one black man - a former sparring partner who traveled with him. He drew the "color line" too.
jhs1958 2 years ago
Louis fought one black man (John Henry Lewis) during the ten years following his winning the title - only one. At the end of his career, he fought Walcott twice and Charles once. If you check the records of the men Louis fought for the title, 14 guys had ten or more losses when he fought them. Some had as many as 16, 17, 20, 23, 23 and 40 losses.
jhs1958 2 years ago
Jeffries had been out of boxing for over six years, he had put on nearly a hundred pounds believe it or not and he was getting up there in age, and while no one can ever say that Jeffries could have beaten Johnson while jeffries was in his prime, it couldn't have hurt Jeffries chances to have fought him before he retired to his rhubarb farm or whatever the fuck it was, Its like Ali getting trounced by Holmes, and Ali had only been out for 1year. Jeffries had been out6, and little time to prepare
Jarvjg01 2 years ago
PeterMarkAzzopardi -- Fitz fought a great fight because he was a great fighter - something you seem to dismiss. It is quite doubtful if Ali was a harder hitter than Fitzsimmons. The quality of the gloves they used enabled more serious cuts and damage. The damage you say Fitz did is exaggerated - lots of blood, yes, from the cuts.
jhs1958 2 years ago
PeterMarkAzzopardi -- Jeffries had cuts about each eye and a split lip. He was bleeding from these cuts and from his nose and this made him look bad. But, Fitz had a cut and swollen right eye. His ribs was in pain and red. Reportedly, he injured or broke his hands on Jeffries' head.
jhs1958 2 years ago
PeterMarkAzzopardi -- Jeffries looked like he did because of his style of fighing - and Fitz was a great fighter and hitter. I dare say Marciano, Liston, Frazier and Foreman would have great difficulty hitting Fitz in the larger ring used against Jeffries and they would be cut up and bleeding too.
jhs1958 2 years ago
PeterMarkAzzopardi -- Jeffries fought Fitz in a larger ring than used today so Fitz had more room to move. So Jeffries' weight wasn't that big a factor. You're wrong on the weights for that fight. Reports of the fighters' weights vary, especially Fitz's. Local papers reported weights for Fitz at 160, 168, 180 and 190 lbs. None said 154 lbs.
jhs1958 2 years ago
PeterMarkAzzopardi -- Fitz even commented that he weighed 185 lbs for that fight. Famous sportswriter Naughton even said that Fitz looked about 190 lbs for that fight. Whatever the weight difference, that didn't affect Fitz's great hitting power.
jhs1958 2 years ago
PeterMarkAzzopardi -- Ali is tremendously overrated - lots of hype - you guys need a modern hero. Ali lost five fights officially and probably four more - if truth be known (Norton #2 & #3, Young, Frazier #2). Ali lost to Leon Spinks (this should say it all). On Spinks' best day and Jeffries' worst day, Spinks wouldn't beat Jeffries.
jhs1958 2 years ago
PeterMarkAzzopardi -- Against Jeffries, Ali would have to move for the entire fight, not lolly-gag on the ropes and rest. Against Jeffries, Ali would have to fight for more than the first 30 seconds and the last 30 seconds. Even if Ali could beat Jeffries, that doesn't necessarily make him the better fighter. Kansas City beats the Yankees in baseball but are they better?
jhs1958 2 years ago
I'll admit that Jeffries was a terrific natural athlete but he cannot be entered into the pantheon of greats because he never fought the best of his era (which would've been several of the black top contenders frozen out of title contention due to race).
PeterMarkAzzopardi 2 years ago
The opinions in this film are clearly not impartial and are about as un biased as the jury that found Jack Johnson guilty of violating the Mann Act...READ THE FACTS!!!
PeterMarkAzzopardi 2 years ago
Over rated, all the black fighters in his prime were the best but he ducked them and when he did finally fight a black he was destroyed. 11 stone Bob Fitzsimons stuck it all over him and shattered every bone in his face so wtf do u think Foreman and all the others would've done?! better than Joe Louis?! LMAO!!!!
PeterMarkAzzopardi 2 years ago
PeterMarkPogo -- I think Jeffries - in his prime - would kick some dark asses - period ! Wha chu no 'bout it enyhow?
jhs1958 2 years ago
my friend, my opinions are based on the facts not on biased views from a racist era
PeterMarkAzzopardi 2 years ago
No, friend, your opinions are based upon "your" facts and they have a biased view.
jhs1958 2 years ago
In 1902, he and Jeffries had a rematch. Fitzsimmons battered Jeffries, who suffered horrible punishment. With his nose and cheek-bones broken, most would have sympathised with Jeffries had he quit, but he kept going until his enormous weight advantage told and Bob suffered a knockout in round eight. Jeffries weight 15 stone Bob weighed 11 stone. So how the hell have beaten Ali who was taller, heavier and better in every way than Fitzsimmons?!!!!! oh yeah because I'm biased hey?!
PeterMarkAzzopardi 2 years ago
Well. This was obviously recorded some time ago. Even Jeff would look tiny by todays standards. The suggestion that he was the greatest heavyweight is obviously based on people that lived (and died) before the 70's (perhaps the greatest era of heavyweights). It would be interesting to see him in with the likes of Foreman or Ali but it its very unlikely that he would have prevailed...
cwsmelser 2 years ago
Foreman would have to hit Jeffries harder than most guys. He would be getting hit by blockbuster punches too. I think he would wear out quicker than Jeffries. Jeffries by a TKO over Foreman.
jhs1958 2 years ago
In my view, Ali is a very overrated boxer. He lost 5 official bouts, should have lost 3-4 more if judged properly. Hell, even Leon Spinks beat him. So, just how great is he ? Not that great.
jhs1958 2 years ago
Jeffries vs Ali -- how many rounds ? how big is the ring ? which rules - QB or London ? These factors determine the winner.
jhs1958 2 years ago
Finally, I suspect that even today's heavyweights would fight at least 15-20 pounds lighter if they trained rigorously. Size is overrated anyhow. Jeffries how enough size, power, chin, stamina. The way you guys talk about size, I pity a PIT BULL in a dog fight but ... you know !!!
jhs1958 2 years ago
this is a tough one. it wouldn't be a one sided affair at all. i think jeffries could hit harder and had a better chin but johnson had great agility and good hand speed was probably more dextrous too. i would put money on jeffries but not alot of money as that would be a very close one. imagine it going for 20+ rounds!! awesome!!
moochykins 2 years ago
Jeff was great, though I agree with MDAC: Johnson was better though a fight in their prime would have been less lopsided. JHS I never saw that Johnson said Jeff was better, I read something more like the opposite (Jeff said he couldn't have beaten Jackson when he was at his peak). Nat Fleischer who's quoted here rated Johnson and Jeffries 1&2 respectively. But I still love reading about jeffries and hope google is able to post his autobio which I haven't been able to find for less than $2000.
edwafor 2 years ago
edwafor, read The Ring interviews of Fleischer with Johnson on two occasions - Jeffries was the greatest of all heavyweights said Johnson.
jhs1958 2 years ago
I'll take your word for it. Seems they were both magnanimous and had respect for each other. My money would still be on Jackson if they met in their prime. I don't know if my dream of reading 2 fisted Jeff will ever come true, it's not on google books and might have come out just after the change in copyright rules (1929).
edwafor 2 years ago
@edwafor just came across your post. Cant help on two fisted jeff,but, theres a new book (ultimate tough guy) it's very good.
TheRichmich 1 year ago
@TheRichmich Hey, thanks, I found it on Amazon! I found 2 fisted jeff on ebay, for $1,000.....
edwafor 1 year ago
i think prime 4 prime that john l sullivan would beat any of the fighters ever
codymana1 2 years ago
John L. Sullivan stated that he believed Jeffries would beat him (John L.)
jhs1958 2 years ago
Johnson was a better fighter, but you can't take anything from their fight together. If you go by that fight, than Maricano was better than Louis and Holmes was better than Ali. I think in their prime, Johnson still wins, but it's a much better fight.
MDAC1012 2 years ago
No way Johnson beats Jeffries in Jeff's prime. Johnson wasn't strong enough to hold him off.
jhs1958 2 years ago
The Jefferies that fought Johnson was a shell of himself. And Jefferies, in his prime, was strong as an ox and had a punchers chance to beat anyone. But I don't agree that there is no way Johnson could beat him in his prime. Too strong? I guess Foreman was too strong for Ali and Tyson was too strong for Holyfield also. Johnson too was a great fighter, and to diminish him because he beat a washed up Jefferies is not right either.
MDAC1012 2 years ago
MDAC1012, Foreman had poor stamina and Tyson poor judgement. Jeffries was better than both. Johnson got his eputation by beating the OLD Jeffries. Jeffries in his prime wins.
jhs1958 2 years ago
I appreciate your defense of Jeffferies, I am a Jefferies fan too and having been telling people for years that it is unfair to judge his career on a fight he had when he was washed up (again, like judging an old Ali or Louis) but I still think you are underestimating Johnson. I just don't think it is as hands down as you make it out to be.
MDAC1012 2 years ago
Of course he would have. Jeffries was great, and one of the strongest punchers in boxing history, but Johnson is one of the best heavyweights period. Johnsons jabs and right uppercuts would have totally dismantled a prime Jeffries and his crouch style. Plus Johnson wasn't at his prime against Jeffries. In a prime Johnson vs. prime Jeffries match, Johnson wins. Thats how I see it at least
reznick8 2 years ago
Reznick8, we see it differently. Johnson got is rep by beating an OLD Jeffries. Johnson had been KO'd twice and beaten by Hart and Griffin. Jeff was unbetaen. Prime Jeffies wins.
jhs1958 2 years ago
an undeveloped johnsons got KO'd by Choynski this is true. But Choynski taught johnson a lot of new tricks and methods that would serve johnson in his future bouts. Hart was a newpaper win for Johnson, Hart was a bloody mess after the fight and Johnson hadn't a single mark on him.
reznick8 2 years ago
I think Jim Corbett could have beaten Jeffries had he been in his prime.
MikeyMcCrashCap 2 years ago
Could be. Corbett was very good and likely the fastest of ALL heavyweights, even faster than the overrated one - you know who I mean.
jhs1958 2 years ago
@jhs1958 While I do not question Big Jeff's athleticism, strength, or endurance there are 3 reasons for him being a litte overated
1.He only won 18 pro fights.
2.There is a lack of good quality film in which to make a realistic assessment of his ability.
3.His punching power is over rated based on his record. The claim that he hit as hard as Foreman or Liston seems nonsensical based on an overall lack of early round knockouts. Jeff wore down his opposition he did not overpower them early.
LVSWTZ 2 years ago
Well, seems like he didn't fight patsies like many of Foreman's foes were.
jhs1958 2 years ago
actually coming to think about this again.....foggy223334 comment explains this well...This is one of the reasons why i think johnson is better besides johnson beating him.i don't even rank jeffries in the top 5 boxers of all time
idanders 2 years ago
Boxing people who saw him fight disagree with you.
jhs1958 2 years ago
no doubt, jeffries was the greatest heavyweight since time began. dempsey next
owenswift 2 years ago
AGREED !
jhs1958 2 years ago
haha no way. frazier foreman ali marciano louis holmes johnson tyson quarry were all better
Boxinglad123 2 years ago
As to who was better, listen to Jeffries himself who clearly stated after being beaten by Johnson, that even in his prime he still could not have beaten Jack Johnson. He was just too Strong.
foggy223334 3 years ago
Johnson also said Jeffries was the greatest heavyweight ever. Why don't you repeat that?
jhs1958 2 years ago
Johnson is better than jeffries...simply becasue he whipped his ass for the title...regardless if he came out of retirement or not....so if anyone is going to have a list----johnson has to be before him because he beat him....in order to be the best- u have to beat the beat.......and thats exactly what johnson did
idanders 3 years ago
Well, according to your logic, Willard was better than Johnson simply because he whipped his ass
jhs1958 2 years ago
Quote from Jim Jeffries after the 1910 "Fight of the Century":
"I could never have whipped Jack Johnson at my best. I couldn't have hit him. No, I couldn't have reached him in a thousand years."
FlatulenceFox 3 years ago
You never read my comments ... Jefferies recanted that comment shortly after and he was frustrated that he was strongly encouraged to comeback. Langford called Jefferies the greatest heavyweight ever and in Johnson's biography, he ranked Jefferies #1 and him #2.
dorsi68 3 years ago
At this point, I capitulate. You are right and I am wrong. Jack Johnson was a weak fighter. Actually he was a terrible fighter. The writers back then were correct: he was deceptive, animalistic, cowardly in the ring. He was lucky to beat all those guys back then. And Jim Jeffries did not owe him a chance at the title during his prime because Johnson was beneath him. Jack Johnson was a bum and a horrible human being.
Smile.
FlatulenceFox 3 years ago
This is the 2nd time in a row I am debating with someone who knows very little and can not answer the questions I ask. Johnson was about 29-5-5 prior to 1906. From 1906 until he lost to Willard he won every fight (except he lost to Willard). During Jefferies reign, Johnson was not a top contender, he lost to a very mediore Hart, was KO'd by a light-heavy past his prime, was beaten by an old vetrean who sparred with Jefferies from time to time
dorsi68 3 years ago
and was DQ in a fight and was KO'd prior to 1900 early in his career. So, here is my last attempt ... by what means did Johnson deserve a fight at the title ... he clearly was not a top 3 contender from 1899-1904. And if you do decide to answer the question ... why did Johynson aboid the top 3 contenders in hbis reign and avid the top white fighetrs as well ???
dorsi68 3 years ago
Finally, we agree.
jhs1958 3 years ago
Johnson also said Jeffries was the greatest heavyweight ever. Why don't you repeat that? Careful, boy, your motive is showing.
jhs1958 3 years ago
He beat the best right off - few patsies like today. 30 more fights against lesser men = 30 more wins !
jhs1958 3 years ago
Do YOU love JOHNSON? Jack won the title, dodged the good blacks, then got his ass whipped by Willard. Not very good !!! A real overrated fake.
jhs1958 3 years ago
Took seven years and a whole lot of persecution by bitter people who had a bit too personal interest tide up into white supremacy to finally wear the man down before Jack Johnson lost to Jess WIllard.
But since you are all on Jim Jeffries' crotch, even you know that even he admitted that Jack Johnson would have beaten him even at his best. However, I see that you are suppressing that because it would undermine the point of this video.
FlatulenceFox 3 years ago
Johnson was/is overrated. Could never hold off the prime Jeffries. Doubtful if anyone could.
jhs1958 3 years ago
Whose fault was it that we will never know that?
Jim Jeffries himself. He had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity to fight Jack Johnson during his so-called "prime" but would not give Johnson the chance. Put it all into the perspective of more than one hundred years and the fact the other white men fought again Johnson, Mr. Jeffries really doesn't look so good now.
Plus he was clobbered when they did finally meet.
FlatulenceFox 3 years ago
Hi there, read my comments on the site "Jim Jeffries' Career Record" as it clearly indicates why Johnson did not deserve a title chance from 1899 to 1904. If you have any valid points on this, kindly let me know. I am hoping you are of sound reason unlike the gemtlemen I was debating with who said Johnson lost 2 fights etc.
dorsi68 3 years ago
He should have fought Jack Johnson . Bottom line. Period. Jim Jeffries cheated his legacy by not doing so.
And, by the way, most of the fights Johnson did lose occurred during the 1920s and up to the 1