I can't understand how they can take the ideology of a prospective supreme court justice into account. Are the laws written in such a vague manner that they can be interpreted to suit your own prejudice.
oh ok, so i have a right to talk with people I trust about murdering someone and I have a right murder someone because my right to privacy. Either way it's against the law to take someone's life, if you do, your right to privacy is no longer valid. Granted this a hard thing because really both the unborn child and mother have the right to live. Neither life is more important. This is in god's hands, not ours, we need to stop trying to play god. Yet god is rarelly considered due to disbelief.
I think that if someone doesn't want to have an abortion, they shouldn't have one. If someone has to have an abortion, for whatever reason (reasons that are no one else's business) no one should sit their and preach and attempt to force their views down another individual's throat.
Wow, our government currently can't even manage an effective economy, foreign policy, or pretty much most of the jobs it was created for? Nice, why don't you let me decide whether or not I'm ready to bring new life into the world and be responsible for it. Choice is important!
Oh fuck off you pro-life republican bastards. Roe V. Wade is law and rightfully so. Why are we the only modernized country where such intense debates over its "morality' keep bring a supreme cort decision decided almost 40 years ago to the spotlight! In many asian countries its greatly supported. In many European countries the damn prosedure is free!!!
McCain is lying through his dentures. If the most qualified judge in the country were pro-choice, McCain would toss him aside like a used Depends. Litmus test my ass.
People who rant pro life on one hand, and support the killing of others on the other, make me want to puke. Everyone in america has blood soaked hands. those that support, enable or ignore those who kill criminals or women and children, collateral damage in iraq and afghanistan...etc
What makes ME want to puke is how retarded the pro-life people are.
They're against the morning after pill cause to them "life begins at conception". But what they don't realize is that most impregnated eggs end up in the bathroom trashcan stuck to a maxi-pad.
I'd love to have a pro-lifer explain to me about those "aborted" eggs. For those eggs life started at conception. So did those eggs have something better to do? Did they commit suicide?
Most pro-lifers I know are fully aware of this. What difference does it make? Is a 3-year old who develops cancer committing suicide?? No, that's just the way things work sometimes.
A very large number of children die in natural miscarriage; that, in and of itself, does not have anything to do with personhood.
Apparently you missed my point. But you did say something very profound. DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH PERSONHOOD!!!
Tell that to the pro-lifers who are against the Morning After Pill. If you would listen to them they'd have you believing that life has begun before the couple can even clean themselves off...at least that's been my experience.
But in reality it's nothing but a clump of cells that is very unlikely to ever become anything more than that.
i am against abortion.... BUT i think if you are raped or insest or w/e u shouldnt have to have the baby. but if you know it will probably happen like o lets say jamie lynn spears than i dont think u should have an abortion. BUT THEN AGAIN IM ONLY 13!
You do know that really young women like Jamie Lynn put themselves at risk when having a baby? Often times young girls bodies aren't developed enough to carry a baby to delivery. And bad things can happen during miscarriages.
So is it okay to have someone like Jamie Lynn Spears risk her future health just cause she was young, dumb, and thought she was in love?
I'm not saying it's right. Just that there should be OPTIONS.
yea another thing that i recon abortion should be aloud is these days there are alot of genitic conditions that are found during pregnency which are physical and mental which leave people wheel chair bound with no control of there body and very little brain use they are a hundred % dependent on other people now that is not living imagine if u where in that situation and what about abortion for the reason of being raped by a relitive these can cause serious genitic conditions for the child
Ahh, I see where your coming from now. So let me try another angle.
The pro-lifers keep saying "we need to be a voice for the voiceless". But what I'm trying to say is can a fertilized egg even have cognitive thoughts? Can it decide what is best for itself? Does it notice it's surroundings?
If it can't...then it's not a person and people shouldn't be offended that it didn't survive.
Sure, if you want to sound like a complete retard you could put it that way.
Getting knocked unconscious is a defense mechanism the brain has for survival. It's used to protect the body from going into shock from excruciating pain. So obviously the brain is still working properly.
Sleeping. Probably shouldn't even have used this as an example since the state of conscious is debateable.
Coma. You can burn a coma patient and wouldn't get a response. Sounds like a vegetable to me.
I'm simply trying to understand the pro-choice position that the fetus is not a person. First you say that the fetus isn't a person because it's not conscious. Then, you say that some people retain personhood even while unconscious.
So, I'm trying to figure out why and how consciousness is a defining attribute of personhood.
I'm not talking about a fetus. Jeez, you claimed to know what the hell I'm talking about but apparently you don't have a clue.
I'm talking about the morning after pill and a freshly fertalized egg.
That is NO WHERE NEAR being a fetus. You see, a fertalized egg still has to travel the falopian(sp?) tubes and then attach itself to the uterus. And then after some time it will evolve into a fetus.
The morning after pill affects the egg before it can attach itself to the uterus.
My apologies, I keep forgetting to use the term "fertilized egg". (Although, considering that you don't consider either one a person, and I consider both to be people, I don't know that it really makes that much difference.)
If a fertilized egg is not a person, and a fetus is not a person, then when does this "clump of cells" become a person? (It would seem to me that a newborn would be likely to fail your "self-awareness" test, or your "burning house" test.)
Yeah, I figured you'd say that the newborn would fail. Somehow I knew that you wouldn't grasp that a baby is actually self-aware. What do you think it's doing when it's crying? It's trying to say that it's hungry, or scared, or cold, or whatever. So yeah, babies are self-aware.
And that answers your question about the "clump of cells". Once it grows into a fetus and becomes self-aware is the moment it becomes a person.
I can't believe you're so opposed to the morning after pill.
My opinion is "WHAT Mother would not give her own life to save her childs"? I just dont understand that!!!I would die to save my child if that is what it came to to give my child life!!!
But now it's my turn to try and understand something.
I would assume you're perfectly fine with a woman getting a Tubal Ligation (aka tubes tied). But you're not for the morning after pill?
I don't see a difference at all between either forms of birth control. And it's rather hypocritical for the pro-lifers to accept one form and not the other.
Actually, I am against all forms of artificial birth control, and that would include tubal ligation.
I see a wide variety of stances in the pro-life community regarding birth control. Some people think all forms of birth control are great, although many are against the birth control pill (because of the potential abortive side effects). Some are against all contraception. Some are even against the NFP methods. (I, personally have no problem with the NFP or FAM methods).
To me being alive or basically an inanimate object is very simple. It's all about Fight or Flight...the most basic principle in all living and thinking things.
A clump of cells and a coma patient don't have that. Put both of them inside a house fire and both of them will burn up into nothing. But put a sleeping person and a baby inside a house fire and chances of survival are a LOT better.
That's as simple as I can put it. Without self-awareness then your basically an inanimate object.
I'd like everyone who reads this to take a second and imagine this: You've got the flu, you feel like total shit, and your stuck in line at the CVS. All you want is to get your meds, go home, and try to feel better. Then all the sudden the FBI comes rushing in and shoves a gun in your face.
Still thinkin of voting Repubican?
Cause that's exactly what the Bush Repubs do to medical marijuana patients even though their state and it's people voted that medical marijuana is ok.
I can't understand how they can take the ideology of a prospective supreme court justice into account. Are the laws written in such a vague manner that they can be interpreted to suit your own prejudice.
toelesshoe 11 months ago
oh ok, so i have a right to talk with people I trust about murdering someone and I have a right murder someone because my right to privacy. Either way it's against the law to take someone's life, if you do, your right to privacy is no longer valid. Granted this a hard thing because really both the unborn child and mother have the right to live. Neither life is more important. This is in god's hands, not ours, we need to stop trying to play god. Yet god is rarelly considered due to disbelief.
greenhorns99 1 year ago
MCCain has lost his mind...
he and S Palin hate women..
ANDREBYNUM 3 years ago
There is ALWAYS a litmus test amongst parties.
That's ridiculous....how stupid does McCain think the American people are.
There is an old saying "Birds of a feather....flock together"
Of course parties are going to "pick and choose" who they want to associate with....they want as little friction as possible.
Omgitszztop 3 years ago
I think that if someone doesn't want to have an abortion, they shouldn't have one. If someone has to have an abortion, for whatever reason (reasons that are no one else's business) no one should sit their and preach and attempt to force their views down another individual's throat.
shadowcali 3 years ago 2
Wow, our government currently can't even manage an effective economy, foreign policy, or pretty much most of the jobs it was created for? Nice, why don't you let me decide whether or not I'm ready to bring new life into the world and be responsible for it. Choice is important!
1SignPost 3 years ago
Pro-Women. Pro-Youth. Pro-Education. Pro-Health. Pro-Privacy. Pro-Constitution. Pro-Morality. Love that BO!
stereogirl78 3 years ago
It seems that McCain is desperate to lose women's vote.
srchoed7 3 years ago 2
Dont you love how old pasty white men cant stop trying to control women
Obelisk2290 3 years ago 2
Its funny how Republicans always talk about not having a "Big Government" and how it should stay out of people's business
But oh no abortion is completely different! The state should decide that!
Hypocrisy? No?
shekar911 3 years ago 4
Well said.
Brooks00000 3 years ago
Oh fuck off you pro-life republican bastards. Roe V. Wade is law and rightfully so. Why are we the only modernized country where such intense debates over its "morality' keep bring a supreme cort decision decided almost 40 years ago to the spotlight! In many asian countries its greatly supported. In many European countries the damn prosedure is free!!!
kmh504 3 years ago 5
I agree. It's been a law for a long time.
Could you imagine if there were still retarded asshole douchebags who were still crying 40 years later about Brown v. Board of Education?
They would be laughed into shame. Sorry, but we've moved on to bigger and better things...DEAL WITH IT!!!
swaggajee 3 years ago 4
McCain is lying through his dentures. If the most qualified judge in the country were pro-choice, McCain would toss him aside like a used Depends. Litmus test my ass.
grkinn 3 years ago 3
I got sick of republicans calling themselves prolife ,they're nothing more than anti women.
ahmadeyad 3 years ago 9
People who rant pro life on one hand, and support the killing of others on the other, make me want to puke. Everyone in america has blood soaked hands. those that support, enable or ignore those who kill criminals or women and children, collateral damage in iraq and afghanistan...etc
Mahoivlich 3 years ago 7
What makes ME want to puke is how retarded the pro-life people are.
They're against the morning after pill cause to them "life begins at conception". But what they don't realize is that most impregnated eggs end up in the bathroom trashcan stuck to a maxi-pad.
I'd love to have a pro-lifer explain to me about those "aborted" eggs. For those eggs life started at conception. So did those eggs have something better to do? Did they commit suicide?
SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME!!!!
swaggajee 3 years ago 3
Most pro-lifers I know are fully aware of this. What difference does it make? Is a 3-year old who develops cancer committing suicide?? No, that's just the way things work sometimes.
A very large number of children die in natural miscarriage; that, in and of itself, does not have anything to do with personhood.
TraderTif 3 years ago
Apparently you missed my point. But you did say something very profound. DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH PERSONHOOD!!!
Tell that to the pro-lifers who are against the Morning After Pill. If you would listen to them they'd have you believing that life has begun before the couple can even clean themselves off...at least that's been my experience.
But in reality it's nothing but a clump of cells that is very unlikely to ever become anything more than that.
swaggajee 3 years ago
i am against abortion.... BUT i think if you are raped or insest or w/e u shouldnt have to have the baby. but if you know it will probably happen like o lets say jamie lynn spears than i dont think u should have an abortion. BUT THEN AGAIN IM ONLY 13!
queenofsummer 3 years ago
Just want to show you the other side of the coin.
You do know that really young women like Jamie Lynn put themselves at risk when having a baby? Often times young girls bodies aren't developed enough to carry a baby to delivery. And bad things can happen during miscarriages.
So is it okay to have someone like Jamie Lynn Spears risk her future health just cause she was young, dumb, and thought she was in love?
I'm not saying it's right. Just that there should be OPTIONS.
swaggajee 3 years ago
yea another thing that i recon abortion should be aloud is these days there are alot of genitic conditions that are found during pregnency which are physical and mental which leave people wheel chair bound with no control of there body and very little brain use they are a hundred % dependent on other people now that is not living imagine if u where in that situation and what about abortion for the reason of being raped by a relitive these can cause serious genitic conditions for the child
nachospole1 3 years ago
I am trying to understand your "point". You're saying that fertilized eggs can't be people because so many of them naturally die?
But the fact that a large number of people naturally die at a certain age does not make them "non-people".
Surely, better arguments against personhood could be made?
TraderTif 3 years ago
Ahh, I see where your coming from now. So let me try another angle.
The pro-lifers keep saying "we need to be a voice for the voiceless". But what I'm trying to say is can a fertilized egg even have cognitive thoughts? Can it decide what is best for itself? Does it notice it's surroundings?
If it can't...then it's not a person and people shouldn't be offended that it didn't survive.
swaggajee 3 years ago
So, personhood is dependent on cognition?
Do I lose my personhood when I become unconscious?
TraderTif 3 years ago
What kind of arguement is that? There are different types of unconscious.
Got hit in the head with a baseball? That would make you a knocked out person in need of medical attention.
Taking a nap? That would make you a sleeping person.
Your in a coma with no chance of getting out of it? You're a vegetable that would be dead without medical attention.
There's a reason why a great philosopher once said: "I think, therefore I am"
swaggajee 3 years ago
So, you are a person if you will re-attain consciousness in the future? And you are a "vegetable" if you won't?
TraderTif 3 years ago
Sure, if you want to sound like a complete retard you could put it that way.
Getting knocked unconscious is a defense mechanism the brain has for survival. It's used to protect the body from going into shock from excruciating pain. So obviously the brain is still working properly.
Sleeping. Probably shouldn't even have used this as an example since the state of conscious is debateable.
Coma. You can burn a coma patient and wouldn't get a response. Sounds like a vegetable to me.
swaggajee 3 years ago
I'm simply trying to understand the pro-choice position that the fetus is not a person. First you say that the fetus isn't a person because it's not conscious. Then, you say that some people retain personhood even while unconscious.
So, I'm trying to figure out why and how consciousness is a defining attribute of personhood.
TraderTif 3 years ago
I'm not talking about a fetus. Jeez, you claimed to know what the hell I'm talking about but apparently you don't have a clue.
I'm talking about the morning after pill and a freshly fertalized egg.
That is NO WHERE NEAR being a fetus. You see, a fertalized egg still has to travel the falopian(sp?) tubes and then attach itself to the uterus. And then after some time it will evolve into a fetus.
The morning after pill affects the egg before it can attach itself to the uterus.
swaggajee 3 years ago
My apologies, I keep forgetting to use the term "fertilized egg". (Although, considering that you don't consider either one a person, and I consider both to be people, I don't know that it really makes that much difference.)
If a fertilized egg is not a person, and a fetus is not a person, then when does this "clump of cells" become a person? (It would seem to me that a newborn would be likely to fail your "self-awareness" test, or your "burning house" test.)
TraderTif 3 years ago
Yeah, I figured you'd say that the newborn would fail. Somehow I knew that you wouldn't grasp that a baby is actually self-aware. What do you think it's doing when it's crying? It's trying to say that it's hungry, or scared, or cold, or whatever. So yeah, babies are self-aware.
And that answers your question about the "clump of cells". Once it grows into a fetus and becomes self-aware is the moment it becomes a person.
I can't believe you're so opposed to the morning after pill.
swaggajee 3 years ago 2
Would that count as self-awareness? Wouldn't it be something closer to instinct?
TraderTif 3 years ago
My opinion is "WHAT Mother would not give her own life to save her childs"? I just dont understand that!!!I would die to save my child if that is what it came to to give my child life!!!
bakatru 3 years ago
But now it's my turn to try and understand something.
I would assume you're perfectly fine with a woman getting a Tubal Ligation (aka tubes tied). But you're not for the morning after pill?
I don't see a difference at all between either forms of birth control. And it's rather hypocritical for the pro-lifers to accept one form and not the other.
swaggajee 3 years ago
Actually, I am against all forms of artificial birth control, and that would include tubal ligation.
I see a wide variety of stances in the pro-life community regarding birth control. Some people think all forms of birth control are great, although many are against the birth control pill (because of the potential abortive side effects). Some are against all contraception. Some are even against the NFP methods. (I, personally have no problem with the NFP or FAM methods).
TraderTif 3 years ago
To me being alive or basically an inanimate object is very simple. It's all about Fight or Flight...the most basic principle in all living and thinking things.
A clump of cells and a coma patient don't have that. Put both of them inside a house fire and both of them will burn up into nothing. But put a sleeping person and a baby inside a house fire and chances of survival are a LOT better.
That's as simple as I can put it. Without self-awareness then your basically an inanimate object.
swaggajee 3 years ago
I'd be really interested in testing McCain's belief that he's a federalist.
He claims that he wants the states to decide about abortion. So does that mean he also supports the state's decision to legalize marijuana?
Somehow I doubt it since his good buddy Dubya doesn't respect those state's decision to decriminalize marijuana.
swaggajee 3 years ago 13
DAMN good point!
kevinthe1st 3 years ago 3
Yeah it is.
I'd like everyone who reads this to take a second and imagine this: You've got the flu, you feel like total shit, and your stuck in line at the CVS. All you want is to get your meds, go home, and try to feel better. Then all the sudden the FBI comes rushing in and shoves a gun in your face.
Still thinkin of voting Repubican?
Cause that's exactly what the Bush Repubs do to medical marijuana patients even though their state and it's people voted that medical marijuana is ok.
swaggajee 3 years ago 4