@OrangePHX And try to cut things but having it only touch the water while not moving. It's cutting method vs. cutting method. It's not made to take hits on the side like that, but to cut. Testing it in a different manner makes no sense.
what a joke the water cutter does'nt use water to cut with except for soft materials.It uses small particles of garnet forced through a tiny nozzle by high pressure water(around 50000psi).any steel no matter how hard is softer than garnet and should have been cit.The tsuba was brobably a softer base metal to give the illusion of being cut properly.Nihonto were well made as were other cultures top weapons and NONE of them would stand up to a properly set water cutter
@soulfucker616 The katana won. The water jet split to either side and failed to cut the sword. If they had used the watecutter on the side of the blade so that the cutting edge wasn't splitting the water jet the cutter would have won.
read my post above.The knife about 2:16 was cut. this blade was thinner and probably about Rc60(hardness indicator for knifes and blades)The nihonto was probably around Rc64(almost impossible to get harder for plain carbon steels like a nihonto) and much thicker than the knife.The grit used in the water cutter is garnet and is of the Rc (Rockwell c)scale,it is Mohs 8(used for stones-precious and non precious)-hard steel is not even Mohs5-less than glass
@goe5 ofc i check again, you aint the first wuss who cant face reality ive met. Typical coward tactics from you.
Ive got plenty of friends. The reason why im online most of the time is because its my job to sit for 10 hours a day, although most of the time i do nothing work related and YT is a great way to pass time. Besides i get an instant message on the system as soon as someone replies to me.
Truth hurts, yeah, thats why youre afraid to face it.
@Buuub08 you are wrong.the materials and the making methods of a katana are deffefent from that of chinese sword, it is chinese ones that japan got at first though.katana is made from tamahagane玉鋼 made by using tatara蹈鞴 methods and all katana is made by forging.on the other hand,casting was mainstream in china.
The materials are the same - the iron is collected from river beds.
The method EXACTLY the same. Folding and laminating, even the terminology is the same. The biggest difference was in the temper line - the Japanese one was more artistic.
However later on the Chinese adapted the use of a blast furnace and thus higher quality steel, nonetheless the actual forging process itself never changed, its the same to this day.
@Buuub08 i have never heard that before.刀was one of the main exportations to china and korea,so you may misunderstand it.though i feel sorry for china comparing to korea,many koreans believe they invented刀and every japanese culture too.
china imported,imitated and left records about刀such as歐陽脩･日本刀歌,鄭成功,苗刀and the records about倭寇and日明戦争,which means the same things didnt exist there by nature.any evidence or the name of the swords?
@shachikujira They were exported to an extent when such swords were no longer used in China for about 500 years. And they were more considered pieces foreign of art rather better swords.
Koreans may believe whatever they want, even the Japanese think stuff like tea ceremony and origami to be theirs. That however doesnt change historical facts, even if for political reasons the Japanese tried to cut any ties with China.
Just seriously look up Chinese forging methods of early steel swords up to like the 7th/8th century and compare that to the Japanese ones. The Chinese methods DID change eventually, but only when blast furnaces were widely used, where as the Japanese ones didnt. From what ive personally seen a traditional Chinese smith makes a sword EXACTLY the same way as a Japanese one. The "similarities" dont end with swords, they go in pretty much everything you think of as being Japanese, next to nothing is
@Buuub08 i know chinese sword had influence on katana but i couldnt find the same.even the chinese said a katana was better than chinese sword.
japanese culture has many factors of ancient china.but now our culture deffers from yours.so is tea ceremony.plus not all our culture came from the continent.there are some theories about origine of origami.however,no doubt origami is japanese.we are not scholars,so why dont we leave it to them?
@shachikujira Chinese said katana was better? Who said that? No one. The katana was valued in China only because it was made in a way that wasnt practiced in China for centuries as well as the design was long abandoned. The only difference is the temper line - Japanese one is more artistic although not necessarily better.
Tea ceremony is Japanese? yeah, not to mention that tea didnt even grow in Japan. It was imported along with the ceremony.
@Buuub08 as the time has gone,our culture has changed sill now.how did china have the same culture as japan has?besides,you dont have any ground.if the sword you implied is唐刀,it is straight without curve.tea ceremony is the same too?chinese created the notion of wabi and sabi?you are like a korean.i was foolish to deal with you seriously.
@shachikujira yeah it has changed a little and many things were (are) being rejected for political reasons.
Tang dao, yes it is one such design. Curve? Ok, you show complete lack of knowledge on this.
The curve is a SIDE EFFECT from the high temper line use. It doesnt change anything, its an artistic element. In the same manner you could bring up the handle wrap being different. It doesnt change a thing on how the blade is made.
Tea ceremony got changed as well, but that does NOT change history.
@Buuub08 first of all,show ground of your claim.how many times do i have to say it?
second,the curve is an essential and practical element to sharpen katana.the less the area of contact with an object is,the more sharpness of a sword is.
third,it is you that are trying to change the history.
last,without your answer,i know you can prove nothing.so dont reply any more.i wont either.
@shachikujira ground? A proper history book should do. Not that i expect you to have any. Japanese have tried to rewrite history to distance themselves from the "inferior" Chinese.
The curve does nothing. LOL! Curved swords have been used only for practical purposes mainly in the cavalry. And a curved sword has actually a LARGER contact area - the exact opposite of what youre saying.
What can you prove? You fail even basic physics.
Whatevs, Japan invented Chinese characters as well if you like.
If you really wanted proof you would have done what i told you - Look up the forging methods and history. The fact that you havent even attempted to do so speaks for itself. You dont want to know anything that doesnt suit your bias. A person who wants to learn will find a way, you obviously dont.
So be it.
Kinda looks like that according to the Japanese it was them who brought writing, art, martial arts, metal works, religion, architecture, tea, rice etc to China not the other way around.
@shachikujira You are obviously a nationialistic Japanese but you appear to ignore facts.Curved blades have more cutting edge than the same length straight blade(as long as the edge is on the outside of the blade).The durve of the Nihonto was an unexpected byproduct of the superior "edge hardening" process discovered by the original smiths millenia ago.The process is fully understood but IMPOSSIBLE to replicate exactly blade to blade-check with you livibg treasure bladesmiths
I don't think your engerish is good enough to put your point across.You may know what you mean but we can't understand your english so your point comes across as giberish.
You also need to read real history regarding swords before comparing them as they were all made to fulfil a specifc set of needs and most suceeded in this aspect(all cultures-not just Japanese)
you are right about the curve being a side effect of the temper line(hamon) but only if the hamon was produced by differential HARDENING.Many knives and swords are hardened acording to the metallurgical formulae created by the steel's manufacturer and then differentially TEMPERED.This method (mostly) keeps the blade in the same shape then reduces the hardness of selected parts of the blade.Yhe differential HARDENING(clay temper method)only hardens the edge setting up stresses and warpage
the materials were not the same-iron sand from around the world contains different elements and changes the steel chemistry drastically.Even in Japan steel from certian areas(made from iron sands from these areas)was much sought after because of less impurities.This continues today in regards to ATS34-only made in Japan because it has the purest and most reliable chemical composition iron sand as raw material
the ARTISTIC hamon had no major effect on the sword as long as it was not too large or too small.
The Japanese used tamahagane in thier weapon blades to reduce impurities and even out carbon content.Blast furnaces produced an even chemical composition and reduced the need to forge weld small pieces.Billets were cast then blades were forged from the cast billet.Homogenous steels today produce blades that are superior to nihonto in nearly all ways but it still takes a master blacksmith to do so
LoL the facts are in the previous comments you left. I straight up copied and pasted the exact words you posted. I use actual evidence I can proove. Your term of "made-up statements" is completely misleading. Now you are lying to not only me but yourself. Learn something new? Why would I be motivated to learn knowledge taught by a selfish bitch? Maybe if you didn't insult stupidity, maybe I would consider you an honorable, respected person. But you are and always will favor yourself over others.
@goe5 Well i think you know what i meant by "made-up statements", if its not a correct term then Im sorry, English isnt exactly my first language.
Me lying to myself? Where? Never did that and will ever do that.
Whos saying something about me teaching you? Im not gonna do that. The issue is in you though, your ignorance doesnt even allow to make a simple google search or open a history book.
Selfish? What do you know about me?! Please indicate where did i show myself as selfish?
As usual you are ignoring to even comment on you being wrong. Pure ignorance and pride beyond ridiculous on your behalf.
Sad that you still havent grown up to face your own mistakes. You would make a good politician, but not a good person. How any anyone respect you if you dont even respect yourself? Accepting ones mistakes is the first step in fixing them, ignoring them will only make it worse for yourself.
@goe5 you clearly were talking to me, its completely obvious. How about you read what you post for a change? Not talking to me when you copy -paste parts of my comments and use the word "you" to refer to the author? The author would be me - thus they were meant for me.
Youre just not hitting the reply button for some reason. Afraid? Thought i wouldnt check if you wouldnt use the reply? Youd love to have the last word not to look like an ignorant fool AGAIN.
You know, you should really stop making up statements which are not there. That just further confirms your ignorance and "pride", and that you always HAVE to be right, which will not always happen - deal with it, thats the way life is.
Is it really so hard to accept something new you didnt know about before?
I think every self-respecting person should be able to face his mistakes and not try to cover them in ignorance and made-up statements of what others supposedly said, which they did not.
What i dont like is that Japan takes credit for something it didnt do but merely adapted. Forging techniques being one of them.
However, that is entirely explainable with the fact that massive numbers of Koreans and Chinese came over to Japan, which in turn almost entirely destroyed the native population - Ainu.
Its actually pretty sad that all you can do is bitch around instead of bringing up any counter-arguments. You dont bring them up because there are none. Truth hurts.
How about you tell us about the JAPANESE tea ceremony and dont forget mention the fact that tea DIDNT EVEN GROW IN JAPAN. Or how the Japanese have been cultivating rice, but dont skip that NEITHER DID RICE GROW IN JAPAN, not to mention that the locals had no clue of agriculture whatsoever, until it was INTRODUCED by Korean settlers
@goe5 I agree with you dude, this guy is one of those Anti-Japanese protestors. Just ignore him, he'll get off the internet someday. Bottom-line Japan has cool TV shows.
@Buuub08 You have no fucking proof to back up your history except your own words, I have seen many and plenty of videos saying Japan invented the Samurai katana. Telling me I have no proof is bullshit, you should be ashamed of yourself. You selfish prick, you have no honor when it comes to respecting other cultures. SHOW ME PROOF!!!!
@Buuub08 Show me one video of a historian saying that katanas were hand made in the country of China and were brought over to Japan. Then I'll believe you. All I ask is one historian, not 10 like you said. Just one, can you do that for me? I thought so
@goe5 I dare you to quote me saying Katanas were made in China and brought to Japan. I DARE YOU! Dont put your shit into statements just to look smarter than you are, cause you fail miserably.
Want proof? Ok, how about you start with any book titled "History of Japan"?
You can not INVENT a sword, you can only DEVELOP one. The Katana was DEVELOPED in Japan - yes, but that doesnt change the fact that it is still based on Chinese sword designs and forging methods.
The first iron and steel swords used in Japan were called Chokuto. If youre Japanese you should know what they were just from the name, as well as when and how they appeared.
And if you really want to know something about it then how about you look up ANYTHING titled "History of Japanese swords" or smth like that?
Ofc the promo vids wont tell you that, why should they? The market lives off fanboys like you.
@Buuub08 Therefore, the sword was invented in the country of Japan. Meaning it is in FACT a Japanese sword. Yes, the forging was brought over from China, but the unique katana was in fact JAPANESE! You make it sound like Japanese people stole the katana. You said you hate Japan for stealing something they didn't event. I'm honestly lost at this point at what you're trying to prove?
Youve fallen pretty low as to having make up shit i supposedly said which everyone can see - i did NOT do. Whats your point in that? Beyond me, really.
Oh so now you say that the forging methods indeed are NOT Japanese, aha. Do you see any of the promo vids say that? Nop. All you see em say how "unique" the method is. Which it is not.
Ok now seriously just look up WHEN and HOW swords where INTRODUCED to Japan, ok?
Do you know why the first Japanese swords COMPLETELY mimic Chinese counterparts?
Do you know the reason why the Katana is curved? The curve is actually the ONLY difference there is between the Katana and a Chinese sword made 800 years EARLIER.
The curve exists due to high temper lines used by the Japanese, it serves no practical purpose.
Just because you increase the temper line of a sword for aesthetic does NOT mean you developed something new. Deal with it.
EVERYONE can see that i NEVER made such a claim, i asked you TWICE to quote me saying that but you never did. And now you fall to the lowest possible point in making up a quote. Utterly pathetic.
What i said though was the the construction and forging methods were brought to Japan, which is completely correct.
I did comment on the vid initially, but you wanted to start this discussion. Bad decision from you as you know bugger-all about swords and Japan.
@goe5 Nothing actually proves life starting in Africa.
In fact the oldest fossils are found in CURRENT Australia and no one knows how, when and where life actually evolved and whether it started off on Earth at all or was brought here with water via asteroids.
And certainly when life was developing on Earth a continent named "Africa" didnt even exist. Looks like you didnt fail just Japanese history but the very basic history (and geography) as well. Sad, really.
@Buuub08 calm the FUCK down dude, I'm trying to be nice but all you do is bitch. Your sin is pride and you know it. You have no respect towards others
@goe5 Im always calm. I just find it amusing how you pretend the comments on 3 pages were never made saying that you try to be "nice".
Instead of admitting being wrong you try bitch out of it all. Pretty funny actually.
Its funny to hear from you about respect, someone who has to make shit up about others will teach me about respect? Give me a break kid and you certainly dont deserve respect for that.
Want respect? Start by picking up a book and facing your mistakes.
@Buuub08 Just because you read a book doesn't mean it's correct or doesn't state that you're the smartest human being on the face of the planet for picking up a book (which you clearly believe). My only mistake I have ever made on this conversation was trying to make peace with you. Cause in your mind, you're ALWAYS right, never wrong. It says so in the book. If obtaining knowledge means to be a prideful bitch on the internet, I'll rather be an idiot trying to make peace.
@goe5 Its more than one book for me, its more like a few years of profs trying to teach me things in the uni. They did a good job i think.
I dont think im the smartest or even smart. There are lots of things i dont know or dont understand.
But unlike you - i admit it when im wrong and im not afraid to learn things find out something new.
Thats the difference between us. If you cant drop the tough act and actually admit being wrong - i dont think your "peace" is anything but an act as well.
@Buuub08 It's pretty funny actually, it's pretty funny actually that, it's pretty sad that, it's pretty funny, sound like anyone? Know more history than me? You are ignorant, selfish, and prideful. Even a smart man like you should know that I am right when I say that you have too much pride for yourself. You told me to look up 10 things that Japan has of their own, since you believe that Japan has nothing to be proud of. Clearly I am not misquoting. This will be my last comment, peace :D
@goe5 Whats wrong with stating the obvious? When something is funny - i say its funny, when its sad - i say its sad. Admitting the way things are is a good thing in my opinion, thats what you call HONESTY. Something you lack.
Pride? Pride in what? Honestly im too young to be proud of something just yet.
Selfish? I dont think so, just being honesty, harsh - maybe, but still honest.
I asked 10 things to see if you COULD and that would show that you know at least SOMETHING, which you do not, sadly.
If your understanding of being selfish and ignorant is when someone just points out historical facts, sure - keep on thinking that way. But all it really does is show how ignorant YOU are by being unable to even accept or admit being wrong at something. You are the one of us showing ignorance all over.
And being unable to admit being wrong - thats your PRIDE. Am i the one with such pride that i cant say "ow, sorry, didnt know that."?
@Buuub08 How about you pick up a book on respect? Oh wait I forgot, I'm the selfish douchebag that hates buuub08 for stating that Japan has nothing to be proud of cause everything came from China. Japan is a county that had to be reborn from the stone age after WWII. Give us a break, we had enough to suffer.
the katana was not the first nihonto,the Tachi was and the forging techniques were not introduced from China but discovered in situ.The general techniques of forging(i.e. heating,beating and welding were known by many cultures independantly of eadh other).The differential HARDENING may have been first discovered and used in Japan-they certinaly have historical blades of 1000 years old or more to prove it.China also had katana shaped blade in the 10 kinkdom era but not produced same way
@jadekayak01 You seriously need to open up a history book.
The tachi was not the first nihonto either. The tachi was the first more or less Japanese design, but steel swords were used in Japan for about 800 years before the tachi appeared, like the chokuto.
The tachi was a flawed design and the katana was an improvement over it.
Differential hardening is older than steel works in Japan altogether. The ONLY difference is that the Japanese increased the line to make the sword curve.
Its a HISTORICAL FACT that iron/steel works were introduced to Japan from China, just as rice, tea and writing among other things.
The difference is that in China the forging techniques moved forward while in Japan it didnt.
Initially the Japanese swords were either locally made copies of Chinese/Korean ones (by Chinese/Korean smiths as a matter of fact) or even imported from the mainland.
If you would bother to spend 1h on education youd know why things are the way they are.
@Buuub08 The Tachi Is the first sword made in Japan that the JAPANESE considered Nihonto-The chokuto was made locally by local smiths but was still a copy of the Chinese style straight swords.
The Nihonto was a new style (curved and discovered by accident as a result of differential hardening) of sword but more importantly a new forging method was employed(new for the local smiths anyway).
Differential hardening was also used extensively elswhere but mostly on double edge blades so no curve
@jadekayak01 The Tachi was influenced by local Ainu weapons. Nihonto isnt a style and the curve was not accidental, in fact Tachi had the curve forged in (mostly at the hilt not the blade), just as the Ainu swords.
No new forging methods were employed, they havent changed to this day as far as katanakaji go.
Differential hardening is used on ALL swords made in that region, the difference is in the extent of the temper line, and historically they were much narrower than they are now.
@Buuub08 you're just jealous that the Japanese samurais have created a master sword superior to others. Also very well known around the world. You should be the first to video other swords vs water cutters.
And any polished high carbon RHC50+ steel edge will stand up to the water jet.
Its just that no one bothers to do pointless promo vids aside from Japs who are crazy about promoting "their" culture.
Katana was developed from the Tachi, which was a completely useles sword. They increased the spine thickness and reduced the temper a little, but its still too high and often uneven resulting in weak spots. Done for the sake of good looks.
Read up history, katanas have failed more than any other sword
In particular they tend to snap in the upper 3rd of the blade, where the most strain is. Having an uneven and ridiculously high temper line results in the edge chipping easily, which then makes it easy to bend/snap.
There are people who particularly collect BROKEN katanas,and there has never been a shortage of them.
The Japanese tendency to exaggerate did not pay off.
@goe5 nop, in fact i have a very good education regarding Asian history.
The 5 year olds are the ones who dont know shit about the sword aside from manga bullshit that its sooo uber lightsaber like that it can cut cars, buildings or whatever.
You should actually do some research on that and what the few honest Japanese historians actually tell you about it.
Fact is - the Japanese steel is of extremely poor quality and the construction of the sword is ENTIRELY Chinese, who brought it to Japan.
The Tachi itself DOES have local Ainu influence, which is why it was curved. The lack of metal armor created a need for a cutting blade - which is why they were curved. The idea was further adapted into the Tachi but it didnt play out so well which resulted in the Katana, which stands somewhere between chokuto, tachi, a chinese swords.
Construction-wise there is NO difference whatsoever, which only logical as metalworks ENTIRELY (and other things) were introduced to Japan by China and Korea.
I mean the construction difference between Chinese and Japanese swords, as well as the Korean ones actually.
They were all made the same way.
However, at a certain point the Chinese gave up on the inferior steel making method, the Japanese continued to use, and changed on to blast furnaces. Due to isolation and breaking ties with the Chinese the Japs never adapted the new furnaces, which can also be explained with the lack of any reliable and decent iron sources.
@Buuub08 just because you right 10 page replys on every comment, doesn't make you right. By the way, I'm Japanese. Quit disgracing our race with made in China bullshit. Who gives a fuck, Samurai's are Japanese, katanas were made by JAPANESE BLACKSMITHS! It doesn't matter if weapons started in China, Japanese blacksmiths hand made them therefore, you're wrong. Or do you wanna argue about it telling me blacksmiths didn't exist in Japan? :)
The Katana mimics Chinese swords of around 800s even in the ornamentation used. Im not saying its a bad sword, but - as i said - you shouldnt take credit for something that isnt yours. And the Katana is by no means a unique Japanese sword, its a mere adoption of Chinese designs and forgin techniques.
Actually, can you name me 10 things distinct to JAPANESE culture that would not be influenced or directly adapted by others (China mostly)?
And speaking of Samurai. The Samurai were pretty much a counterpart for the Chinese and Korean warrior elite, and even the Bushido code itself is entirely based on CHINESE philosophy as the Japanese basically have none of their own. All they ever did in terms of that is spell the names of Chinese scholars in Japanese, and popularized them as such over the world. And so, today youve got everyone thinking Zen is Japanese, as are Unmon, Soto and Hogen. Which is false.
@Buuub08 So basically with your logic....Japan didn't make Pokemon cause America invented cartoons? Am I right? Get off your computer and get a life, you know I'm right :) LoL now I know for fact you're not a historian, cause you stated quote "Japanese blacksmiths were mostly Korean and Chinese craftmen" Bwahahahaha wow...pathetic
It was demonstrated how the watercutter sliced through cheap knifes, common fry pan and some kind of unspecified metal. All this kitchen stuff is usually made of SOFT SHEET PLATES and is NO MATCH to 0,8%C tempered carbon steel. Due to the sharpness of the blade and polish there was no chance for the water stream to build up enough pressure.
Every good tempered and polished blade will achieve the same performance. There is NO sign of any nihonto-superiorNess:
@Protherium I don't understand why you people from the broadsword crowd cannot appreciate this footage without thinking it proves the Katana superior to other swords. As a Katana fan I agree it does not demonstrate any superiority but it is cool =).
I just answered to all the comments saying "katana is the best".
BTW there are lots of magical swords in sagas and myths of the Migration Period und Early Middle Ages from Europe. And what they do and how they look (following the saga descriptions) is pretty awesome. I can say i like all awesome swords including the katana. ;))) I just dont like irrational and unscientific myths.
interesting test but shows nothing you could put a kitchen knife instead of katana and you would have the same effect.... the edge gives no surfase for the watercutter to use pressure on.....
@kolotiti I dont understand your comment, you say the same result could be achieved with a kitchen knife, despite the fact they used one in this video and it was cut in two, then you say the Katana is thicker then the kitchen knife explaining the differing result? Please make some sense -_-.
@TeHGoodReverend the thing is the thicker you have the blade the easyer it is to cut... example what i easyer to cut a 1,5 mm (thickness of katana) bar or a 0,5 in half?(at least i have such kitchen knife), i meant that a steel kitchen knife can do same as that katana nothing more, but it must be made of quality steel not such teleshoping knifes :P .. and that wasnt a quality knife for sure cause japanese use to have knifes with quality similar to katanas so there shoudnt be a diference in test
you are wrong about the quality of japanese knives.most people could'nt afford steel let alone good steel.
bladesmiths in Japan were a much lower level of craftsman compared to weapon bladesmiths and produced a lowere quality product as a result.Thier are exceptions to everything and some people owned quality cutlery and farm implements-mostly the richer farmers and merchants
@jadekayak01 Im not talking about historical used knives but about today manufactured knives. We have at home a set from japan they are rly sharp and high quality knives.
I doubt if the same blade could take it horizontally, the water would have more to work with, but who cares? Katanas are meant to cut one way, I'm not about to test a katana by hitting an apple with the side of the blade. If I'm going to test it, I'm really only going to be testing the most important part, the edge. Katanas aren't made with attacks from the side in mind. Defense was never really the idea but for its purpose, to cut, this katana seems to be made very well.
i know it would you tit...it's just a supid request to make which was my point.
mum jokes are purposeful and overt ways to avoid a question, so much so that they are used to discredit the validity of stupid statements like yours.
the fact that the katana didn't get cut in two when blasted is proof that it was well made, despite what YOU think that I think, katana aren't made out of a mythical metal so stfu and gtfo.
Katanas are not sharper than razors. Nihonto put to battle were finished in shitaji, a basic finish which is different from the refined shiage "finish polish" used on artistic blades or times of peace. A shitaji gave it a sharp edge but did not smooth the steel enough for hatakari and hamon to appear it's best. Also nihonto are not polished smooth like a mirror. Only the shinogi-ji and mune was mirror-like by burnishing. The actual ji and yakiba are a matte finish done by finger stones.
A waterjet does not just spray water. They abrasive waterjets and use aluminum oxide, a Mohs hardness of 8.5-8 (diamond is 10) Water at 50,000psi is forced through a diamond orifice at the top of the eductor body. Al2O3 is fed through the side port of the body (the flexible tube going into the side of the head assembly) and into the high pressure stream, shot out through a tungsten carbide nozzle, which wears with use. There is probably no abrasive being mixed into the eductor body.
If the geometry of the nihonto "split the beam" without damage, then the grit-laced H2O would abrade the side of the blade like a sandblaster. It would round over the ko-shinogi and the yokote, but that didn't happen. There isn't a scuff on the kissaki or boshi. Anyone who has seen a waterjet-cut parts knows the surfaces have a unique sandblasted look. The tsuba in the video mysteriously breaks in two before the waterjet is actually completely through it. Entertaining but questionable.
@IncognitoQ Waterjet cutters don't usually use grit unless they are cutting something like titanium or tungsten, and even then it is usually only used on the larger thicknesses.
rubbish water cutters always use git in steels,aluminuim,and other non ferrous metals.I have had a Jade bracelet 20mm thick cut and the machine could not cope except set for the thickest stainless steel.This is because jade(nephrite jade)is around 6.something on the Mohs scale and very hard.The harder it is the more it takes to cut.The machine was also slowed down as much as possible and the cuts were still curved
One reason the Katana survived is because the edge is almost glass sharp, sharper than industrial razors. Another is that it's polished surface causes the water jet to slide off rather than cut into it..
Katana can't cut steel armor. Unless you want to ruin your sword (yes, quality swords, which are sharp, require proper usage. E.g. the edges are brittle, they rust quickly...).
About the video: now make water cutter go on the flat of the blade. What was shown can be performed with butter knife.
Kabutowari actually shows that a sword cannot cut through armour. The test uses a very big wind up to hit a stationary helmet thats at an appropriate height and even then only achieves gashes in the helmet, its not cut through and the sword doesn't penetrate much. In combat it would be impossible to do even this.
The problem is that in order to achieve those gashes a massive wind up is required etc; the test is carried out under completely artificial circumstances in combat you would have no hope of producing the same results. Fencing techniques against armoured oponents target areas such as joins at the shoulder precisesly because its practically impossible to cut through armour plate, even mail armour would be difficult to penetrate.
like i said in my first reply to you... im not arguing that its probable.. im arguing that its possible... you have done nothing to attack my point...
your argument is something of a strawman....
i never claimed a sword could cut through armor plate...
Also the bowl of a helmet stands higher than the top of the head of the wearer, I doubt you would get enough meaningful penetration to singnifcantly injure, through cutting; blunt force trauma on the other hand is a different matter. The Katana fares about as well as any other comparable sword in cutting steel; that is that under any reasonable, practical circumstances it can't.
Whats the point of this test? Showing Nihonto are superior? It really depend on the person wielding the sword. You give a retard a one million dollar sword and see if theres any value in that...
I know both will but as well...however because of the forging process of the katana (which IS unique to japanese swords), it gives it a superior cutting-ability to weight ratio. I have all the respect for European swords, but that fact that the Katana is a set recipie, its too hard to compare it too all "European" swords. Maybe we should narrow our discussion to one "type" of sword.
Theres nothing inherently unique in the forging of Japanese swords. Name any aspect; differential hardening; the use of different steels forge welded together; folding steel; even the design is not altogether unique; look up Messer, and Swiss Sabre on Wiki. I have respect for Japanese swords also, I just dont subscribe to the notion that they or the martial culture that spawned them display altogether unique qualities above swords or martial arts from other cultures.
As to which European sword to compare them to is a tricky question. I could say 'Long Sword' but there are also some very different forms of sword within that catagory. Long sword and Rapier are the usual swords pitted against the Katana.
Well ya...if you're talking about a No Dachi...then yes, its going to be over 2.5 lbs. But if you're talking about a traditional Katana or Tachi...i'm telling you, you're not going to find one over 2.5lbs. Thats like saying "Well a Roman Gladius is light!" Well ya, try to go for extremes, but the fact still stands: Katana are lighter than European swords, and are crafted in a much supieror process, giving them a much better cutting ability than a European-style sword.
Well no thats not a fact at all. European swords are not always heavier then Katanas and many weigh the same around 2.5lbs; and I'm not talking about Roman swords either. And no Japanese swords were not crafted in a superior way to European blades either. Every technique you can mention that Japanese smiths used I can point to a similar European technique. And yes there are European swords that will cut as well as a Katana.
Katanas are very well balanced in range (yes even in a swordfight rage is considered) and in weight. the eauropeans broadsword were very heavy, but they needed to be heavy so that they could also penetrate the heavy armor of the knights. i dont think a Katana has enough force to do that. and it would be a shame to mess up a katana on iron. also, swords have always been rare and worn everywhere only by the elite. crafting a big piece of compressed metal is expensive.
European swords are not heavy. Actually per length of steel they are lighter. They used piercing attacks to get into the armour weak points, like below the elbow or whichever part was weaker.
This is a myth, which gets repeated 'ad infinitum'. European swords were not 'heavy', they were well balanced and weighed about the same as Japanese swords. They were also not designed to penetrate armour through cutting, crushing it or piercing it. The awl like points on 14/15th Century swords were designed to slide between the joins of plates or through gaps and vulnerable areas for example, eye slits or under the arm etc.
Hey whatever happens to this show and it called hey spring of trivia
kylethesithraker 3 days ago
they say "unique injapan" but koreans also used katanas
japantruthify001 1 week ago
@SpeedFreakNO
Its "nihonto" にほんとう
Hasu01azn 1 month ago
Isn't it "ninhoto", not "nihonto"?
SpeedFreakNO 1 month ago
what is the name of this show ???
Godz 1 month ago
さすが刀だ。なんともないぜ！
anitaking26 6 months ago 2
damn...water cutting stuff..
OrangePHX 7 months ago
@OrangePHX And try to cut things but having it only touch the water while not moving. It's cutting method vs. cutting method. It's not made to take hits on the side like that, but to cut. Testing it in a different manner makes no sense.
SpeedFreakNO 1 month ago
lay the sword on its side.
RedDevilPride12 8 months ago
what a joke the water cutter does'nt use water to cut with except for soft materials.It uses small particles of garnet forced through a tiny nozzle by high pressure water(around 50000psi).any steel no matter how hard is softer than garnet and should have been cit.The tsuba was brobably a softer base metal to give the illusion of being cut properly.Nihonto were well made as were other cultures top weapons and NONE of them would stand up to a properly set water cutter
jadekayak01 8 months ago
これ千葉工大でやったらしいが、日本刀の実験の時は圧力を落としてやったからね。
日本刀が折れてはいけないからね
riotshorty1 9 months ago
@riotshorty1 知り合い居るなら聞いてくれない？ 包丁の時とどれくらい圧力の差があるのか、具体的な数値がほしい。
chranness 4 months ago
not clear but im gessing the watercutter split the blade in 2
or was it the katana manged to handle being cut
soulfucker616 1 year ago
@soulfucker616 The katana won. The water jet split to either side and failed to cut the sword. If they had used the watecutter on the side of the blade so that the cutting edge wasn't splitting the water jet the cutter would have won.
hannibalninja 11 months ago
read my post above.The knife about 2:16 was cut. this blade was thinner and probably about Rc60(hardness indicator for knifes and blades)The nihonto was probably around Rc64(almost impossible to get harder for plain carbon steels like a nihonto) and much thicker than the knife.The grit used in the water cutter is garnet and is of the Rc (Rockwell c)scale,it is Mohs 8(used for stones-precious and non precious)-hard steel is not even Mohs5-less than glass
jadekayak01 8 months ago
Everything is possible if you follow Bushido
RyuMSEA 1 year ago
くそ、このクールクソです lol
djaygermain 1 year ago
thank you for washing the blade ^^
NoMadderWat 1 year ago 15
Yeah afraid of getting spammed by replies hahaha xD
goe5 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
LoL so are you xD
goe5 1 year ago
LoL you could really use a friend to talk to, is that why you're keep on replying? Cause you miss me? The truth hurts...
goe5 1 year ago
@goe5 ofc i check again, you aint the first wuss who cant face reality ive met. Typical coward tactics from you.
Ive got plenty of friends. The reason why im online most of the time is because its my job to sit for 10 hours a day, although most of the time i do nothing work related and YT is a great way to pass time. Besides i get an instant message on the system as soon as someone replies to me.
Truth hurts, yeah, thats why youre afraid to face it.
Buuub08 1 year ago
@Buuub08 you are wrong.the materials and the making methods of a katana are deffefent from that of chinese sword, it is chinese ones that japan got at first though.katana is made from tamahagane玉鋼 made by using tatara蹈鞴 methods and all katana is made by forging.on the other hand,casting was mainstream in china.
shachikujira 10 months ago
@shachikujira
The materials are the same - the iron is collected from river beds.
The method EXACTLY the same. Folding and laminating, even the terminology is the same. The biggest difference was in the temper line - the Japanese one was more artistic.
However later on the Chinese adapted the use of a blast furnace and thus higher quality steel, nonetheless the actual forging process itself never changed, its the same to this day.
Swords were cast only during the bronze age.
Buuub08 10 months ago
@Buuub08 i have never heard that before.刀was one of the main exportations to china and korea,so you may misunderstand it.though i feel sorry for china comparing to korea,many koreans believe they invented刀and every japanese culture too.
china imported,imitated and left records about刀such as歐陽脩･日本刀歌,鄭成功,苗刀and the records about倭寇and日明戦争,which means the same things didnt exist there by nature.any evidence or the name of the swords?
shachikujira 10 months ago
@shachikujira They were exported to an extent when such swords were no longer used in China for about 500 years. And they were more considered pieces foreign of art rather better swords.
Koreans may believe whatever they want, even the Japanese think stuff like tea ceremony and origami to be theirs. That however doesnt change historical facts, even if for political reasons the Japanese tried to cut any ties with China.
Buuub08 10 months ago
Just seriously look up Chinese forging methods of early steel swords up to like the 7th/8th century and compare that to the Japanese ones. The Chinese methods DID change eventually, but only when blast furnaces were widely used, where as the Japanese ones didnt. From what ive personally seen a traditional Chinese smith makes a sword EXACTLY the same way as a Japanese one. The "similarities" dont end with swords, they go in pretty much everything you think of as being Japanese, next to nothing is
Buuub08 10 months ago
@Buuub08 i know chinese sword had influence on katana but i couldnt find the same.even the chinese said a katana was better than chinese sword.
japanese culture has many factors of ancient china.but now our culture deffers from yours.so is tea ceremony.plus not all our culture came from the continent.there are some theories about origine of origami.however,no doubt origami is japanese.we are not scholars,so why dont we leave it to them?
shachikujira 10 months ago
@shachikujira Chinese said katana was better? Who said that? No one. The katana was valued in China only because it was made in a way that wasnt practiced in China for centuries as well as the design was long abandoned. The only difference is the temper line - Japanese one is more artistic although not necessarily better.
Tea ceremony is Japanese? yeah, not to mention that tea didnt even grow in Japan. It was imported along with the ceremony.
Origami Japanese? aha, as is Bonsai ye?
srsly lol.
Buuub08 10 months ago
@Buuub08 as the time has gone,our culture has changed sill now.how did china have the same culture as japan has?besides,you dont have any ground.if the sword you implied is唐刀,it is straight without curve.tea ceremony is the same too?chinese created the notion of wabi and sabi?you are like a korean.i was foolish to deal with you seriously.
shachikujira 10 months ago
@shachikujira yeah it has changed a little and many things were (are) being rejected for political reasons.
Tang dao, yes it is one such design. Curve? Ok, you show complete lack of knowledge on this.
The curve is a SIDE EFFECT from the high temper line use. It doesnt change anything, its an artistic element. In the same manner you could bring up the handle wrap being different. It doesnt change a thing on how the blade is made.
Tea ceremony got changed as well, but that does NOT change history.
Buuub08 10 months ago
@Buuub08 first of all,show ground of your claim.how many times do i have to say it?
second,the curve is an essential and practical element to sharpen katana.the less the area of contact with an object is,the more sharpness of a sword is.
third,it is you that are trying to change the history.
last,without your answer,i know you can prove nothing.so dont reply any more.i wont either.
shachikujira 9 months ago
@shachikujira ground? A proper history book should do. Not that i expect you to have any. Japanese have tried to rewrite history to distance themselves from the "inferior" Chinese.
The curve does nothing. LOL! Curved swords have been used only for practical purposes mainly in the cavalry. And a curved sword has actually a LARGER contact area - the exact opposite of what youre saying.
What can you prove? You fail even basic physics.
Whatevs, Japan invented Chinese characters as well if you like.
Buuub08 9 months ago
If you really wanted proof you would have done what i told you - Look up the forging methods and history. The fact that you havent even attempted to do so speaks for itself. You dont want to know anything that doesnt suit your bias. A person who wants to learn will find a way, you obviously dont.
So be it.
Kinda looks like that according to the Japanese it was them who brought writing, art, martial arts, metal works, religion, architecture, tea, rice etc to China not the other way around.
Buuub08 9 months ago
@shachikujira You are obviously a nationialistic Japanese but you appear to ignore facts.Curved blades have more cutting edge than the same length straight blade(as long as the edge is on the outside of the blade).The durve of the Nihonto was an unexpected byproduct of the superior "edge hardening" process discovered by the original smiths millenia ago.The process is fully understood but IMPOSSIBLE to replicate exactly blade to blade-check with you livibg treasure bladesmiths
jadekayak01 8 months ago
I don't think your engerish is good enough to put your point across.You may know what you mean but we can't understand your english so your point comes across as giberish.
You also need to read real history regarding swords before comparing them as they were all made to fulfil a specifc set of needs and most suceeded in this aspect(all cultures-not just Japanese)
jadekayak01 8 months ago
you are right about the curve being a side effect of the temper line(hamon) but only if the hamon was produced by differential HARDENING.Many knives and swords are hardened acording to the metallurgical formulae created by the steel's manufacturer and then differentially TEMPERED.This method (mostly) keeps the blade in the same shape then reduces the hardness of selected parts of the blade.Yhe differential HARDENING(clay temper method)only hardens the edge setting up stresses and warpage
jadekayak01 8 months ago
the materials were not the same-iron sand from around the world contains different elements and changes the steel chemistry drastically.Even in Japan steel from certian areas(made from iron sands from these areas)was much sought after because of less impurities.This continues today in regards to ATS34-only made in Japan because it has the purest and most reliable chemical composition iron sand as raw material
jadekayak01 8 months ago
the ARTISTIC hamon had no major effect on the sword as long as it was not too large or too small.
The Japanese used tamahagane in thier weapon blades to reduce impurities and even out carbon content.Blast furnaces produced an even chemical composition and reduced the need to forge weld small pieces.Billets were cast then blades were forged from the cast billet.Homogenous steels today produce blades that are superior to nihonto in nearly all ways but it still takes a master blacksmith to do so
jadekayak01 8 months ago
Of course you of all people would check again if I replied. You have no life :)
goe5 1 year ago
LoL the facts are in the previous comments you left. I straight up copied and pasted the exact words you posted. I use actual evidence I can proove. Your term of "made-up statements" is completely misleading. Now you are lying to not only me but yourself. Learn something new? Why would I be motivated to learn knowledge taught by a selfish bitch? Maybe if you didn't insult stupidity, maybe I would consider you an honorable, respected person. But you are and always will favor yourself over others.
goe5 1 year ago
@goe5 Well i think you know what i meant by "made-up statements", if its not a correct term then Im sorry, English isnt exactly my first language.
Me lying to myself? Where? Never did that and will ever do that.
Whos saying something about me teaching you? Im not gonna do that. The issue is in you though, your ignorance doesnt even allow to make a simple google search or open a history book.
Selfish? What do you know about me?! Please indicate where did i show myself as selfish?
Buuub08 1 year ago
As usual you are ignoring to even comment on you being wrong. Pure ignorance and pride beyond ridiculous on your behalf.
Sad that you still havent grown up to face your own mistakes. You would make a good politician, but not a good person. How any anyone respect you if you dont even respect yourself? Accepting ones mistakes is the first step in fixing them, ignoring them will only make it worse for yourself.
Buuub08 1 year ago
@Buuub08 I wasn't even talking to you, see what I mean when I say you bitch alot
goe5 1 year ago
@goe5 you clearly were talking to me, its completely obvious. How about you read what you post for a change? Not talking to me when you copy -paste parts of my comments and use the word "you" to refer to the author? The author would be me - thus they were meant for me.
Youre just not hitting the reply button for some reason. Afraid? Thought i wouldnt check if you wouldnt use the reply? Youd love to have the last word not to look like an ignorant fool AGAIN.
Buuub08 1 year ago
Way to contradict yourself. :)
goe5 1 year ago
"I dont think im the smartest or even smart. There are lots of things i dont know or dont understand."
"And its actually pretty sad that you, being Japanese, know less (nothing actually) about its history than me."
LoL it's sad that you think you're the smarter than me. And think that I am wrong. Clearly this isn't pride or racism(sarcasm). Have a nice day sir
goe5 1 year ago
@goe5 Where did i say that i think that im smarter than you?
I said that its sad that a Japanese person knows less about his country then me. And you have shown to know nothing about Japan.
Knowing stuff does not mean one is smarter than another. Your understanding of the word "smart" is quite odd in my opinion.
Pride in racism in what?
Your pride and ignorance is being unable to accept being wrong at something.
P.S. Cant rly be racist towards your own race, can you?
Buuub08 1 year ago
You know, you should really stop making up statements which are not there. That just further confirms your ignorance and "pride", and that you always HAVE to be right, which will not always happen - deal with it, thats the way life is.
Is it really so hard to accept something new you didnt know about before?
I think every self-respecting person should be able to face his mistakes and not try to cover them in ignorance and made-up statements of what others supposedly said, which they did not.
Buuub08 1 year ago
Katana's are so beautiful *-* starstruck haha
Positivecomments 1 year ago
Buuub08 is a Chinese/ Korean who hates the FACT that Japan is better then them :)
goe5 1 year ago
Im neither Korean nor Chinese.
What i dont like is that Japan takes credit for something it didnt do but merely adapted. Forging techniques being one of them.
However, that is entirely explainable with the fact that massive numbers of Koreans and Chinese came over to Japan, which in turn almost entirely destroyed the native population - Ainu.
Buuub08 1 year ago
Its actually pretty sad that all you can do is bitch around instead of bringing up any counter-arguments. You dont bring them up because there are none. Truth hurts.
How about you tell us about the JAPANESE tea ceremony and dont forget mention the fact that tea DIDNT EVEN GROW IN JAPAN. Or how the Japanese have been cultivating rice, but dont skip that NEITHER DID RICE GROW IN JAPAN, not to mention that the locals had no clue of agriculture whatsoever, until it was INTRODUCED by Korean settlers
Buuub08 1 year ago
@Buuub08 LoL no need to cry man, it's the internet
goe5 1 year ago
@goe5 I agree with you dude, this guy is one of those Anti-Japanese protestors. Just ignore him, he'll get off the internet someday. Bottom-line Japan has cool TV shows.
Positivecomments 1 year ago
@Positivecomments Anti-Japanese protesters? who are those?
I wont get off the internet as the internet is where i make my living.
Its not about good TV shows, I actually agree that Japan has excellent entertainment.
But as i see neither can YOU answer to me with anything of actual relevance.
That once again shows that you know that im right - but you just cant accept the truth. And thats just sad.
I have nothing against Japan, i just dont like people pulling bs.
Buuub08 1 year ago
@goe5 Im not crying. Its just sad that you have nothing of relevance to put against me.
Buuub08 1 year ago
@Buuub08 You have no fucking proof to back up your history except your own words, I have seen many and plenty of videos saying Japan invented the Samurai katana. Telling me I have no proof is bullshit, you should be ashamed of yourself. You selfish prick, you have no honor when it comes to respecting other cultures. SHOW ME PROOF!!!!
goe5 1 year ago
@Buuub08 Show me one video of a historian saying that katanas were hand made in the country of China and were brought over to Japan. Then I'll believe you. All I ask is one historian, not 10 like you said. Just one, can you do that for me? I thought so
goe5 1 year ago
@goe5 I dare you to quote me saying Katanas were made in China and brought to Japan. I DARE YOU! Dont put your shit into statements just to look smarter than you are, cause you fail miserably.
Want proof? Ok, how about you start with any book titled "History of Japan"?
You can not INVENT a sword, you can only DEVELOP one. The Katana was DEVELOPED in Japan - yes, but that doesnt change the fact that it is still based on Chinese sword designs and forging methods.
Buuub08 1 year ago
The first iron and steel swords used in Japan were called Chokuto. If youre Japanese you should know what they were just from the name, as well as when and how they appeared.
And if you really want to know something about it then how about you look up ANYTHING titled "History of Japanese swords" or smth like that?
Ofc the promo vids wont tell you that, why should they? The market lives off fanboys like you.
And look, took me 3mins to find:
/watch?v=KT-yqkda27Y
Tell me whats the difference.
Buuub08 1 year ago
@Buuub08 Therefore, the sword was invented in the country of Japan. Meaning it is in FACT a Japanese sword. Yes, the forging was brought over from China, but the unique katana was in fact JAPANESE! You make it sound like Japanese people stole the katana. You said you hate Japan for stealing something they didn't event. I'm honestly lost at this point at what you're trying to prove?
goe5 1 year ago
@goe5 I DARED you to quote me claiming "the katana was made in China and brought to Japan". Why dont you do that?
I did not say they "stole" the sword.
And I DARE YOU once again to quote me saying that i hate Japan for stealing something.
Why dont you just bring up anything of actual relevance? A history book, perhaps?
Buuub08 1 year ago
Youve fallen pretty low as to having make up shit i supposedly said which everyone can see - i did NOT do. Whats your point in that? Beyond me, really.
Oh so now you say that the forging methods indeed are NOT Japanese, aha. Do you see any of the promo vids say that? Nop. All you see em say how "unique" the method is. Which it is not.
Ok now seriously just look up WHEN and HOW swords where INTRODUCED to Japan, ok?
Buuub08 1 year ago
Do you know why the first Japanese swords COMPLETELY mimic Chinese counterparts?
Do you know the reason why the Katana is curved? The curve is actually the ONLY difference there is between the Katana and a Chinese sword made 800 years EARLIER.
The curve exists due to high temper lines used by the Japanese, it serves no practical purpose.
Just because you increase the temper line of a sword for aesthetic does NOT mean you developed something new. Deal with it.
Buuub08 1 year ago
@Buuub08 Quote "The Katana was made in China and brought to Japan" -Buuub08
LoL calm down dude, can't you comment about the video? Or is arguing on comments the new trend these days?
goe5 1 year ago
@goe5 Dude youre totally pathetic.
EVERYONE can see that i NEVER made such a claim, i asked you TWICE to quote me saying that but you never did. And now you fall to the lowest possible point in making up a quote. Utterly pathetic.
What i said though was the the construction and forging methods were brought to Japan, which is completely correct.
I did comment on the vid initially, but you wanted to start this discussion. Bad decision from you as you know bugger-all about swords and Japan.
Buuub08 1 year ago
@Buuub08
This is totally correct. People should remember, it's also not like the Japanese just "grew" out of the ground on the islands, they're imported too!
rinjimaikeru 1 year ago
@rinjimaikeru neither did the Chinese or the Koreans, all life started in Africa if you wanna go that far back.
goe5 1 year ago
@goe5 Nothing actually proves life starting in Africa.
In fact the oldest fossils are found in CURRENT Australia and no one knows how, when and where life actually evolved and whether it started off on Earth at all or was brought here with water via asteroids.
And certainly when life was developing on Earth a continent named "Africa" didnt even exist. Looks like you didnt fail just Japanese history but the very basic history (and geography) as well. Sad, really.
Buuub08 1 year ago
@Buuub08 calm the FUCK down dude, I'm trying to be nice but all you do is bitch. Your sin is pride and you know it. You have no respect towards others
goe5 1 year ago
@goe5 Im always calm. I just find it amusing how you pretend the comments on 3 pages were never made saying that you try to be "nice".
Instead of admitting being wrong you try bitch out of it all. Pretty funny actually.
Its funny to hear from you about respect, someone who has to make shit up about others will teach me about respect? Give me a break kid and you certainly dont deserve respect for that.
Want respect? Start by picking up a book and facing your mistakes.
Buuub08 1 year ago
@Buuub08 Just because you read a book doesn't mean it's correct or doesn't state that you're the smartest human being on the face of the planet for picking up a book (which you clearly believe). My only mistake I have ever made on this conversation was trying to make peace with you. Cause in your mind, you're ALWAYS right, never wrong. It says so in the book. If obtaining knowledge means to be a prideful bitch on the internet, I'll rather be an idiot trying to make peace.
goe5 1 year ago
@goe5 Its more than one book for me, its more like a few years of profs trying to teach me things in the uni. They did a good job i think.
I dont think im the smartest or even smart. There are lots of things i dont know or dont understand.
But unlike you - i admit it when im wrong and im not afraid to learn things find out something new.
Thats the difference between us. If you cant drop the tough act and actually admit being wrong - i dont think your "peace" is anything but an act as well.
Buuub08 1 year ago
See.. you are making shit up AGAIN. Is that your idea of peace?
Japan has nothing to be proud of? I never said that, but as i see that doesnt stop you from MAKING SHIT UP AGAIN, obviously, really peaceful, sure.
I respect the people who are worthy of it.
But people who make shit up about others, are set on stereotypes and bullshit are not worthy of being respect.
And its actually pretty sad that you, being Japanese, know less (nothing actually) about its history than me.
Buuub08 1 year ago
@Buuub08 It's pretty funny actually, it's pretty funny actually that, it's pretty sad that, it's pretty funny, sound like anyone? Know more history than me? You are ignorant, selfish, and prideful. Even a smart man like you should know that I am right when I say that you have too much pride for yourself. You told me to look up 10 things that Japan has of their own, since you believe that Japan has nothing to be proud of. Clearly I am not misquoting. This will be my last comment, peace :D
goe5 1 year ago
@goe5 Whats wrong with stating the obvious? When something is funny - i say its funny, when its sad - i say its sad. Admitting the way things are is a good thing in my opinion, thats what you call HONESTY. Something you lack.
Pride? Pride in what? Honestly im too young to be proud of something just yet.
Selfish? I dont think so, just being honesty, harsh - maybe, but still honest.
I asked 10 things to see if you COULD and that would show that you know at least SOMETHING, which you do not, sadly.
Buuub08 1 year ago
If your understanding of being selfish and ignorant is when someone just points out historical facts, sure - keep on thinking that way. But all it really does is show how ignorant YOU are by being unable to even accept or admit being wrong at something. You are the one of us showing ignorance all over.
And being unable to admit being wrong - thats your PRIDE. Am i the one with such pride that i cant say "ow, sorry, didnt know that."?
Am I or is it you?
We know the answer, but can you accept it?
Buuub08 1 year ago
@Buuub08 How about you pick up a book on respect? Oh wait I forgot, I'm the selfish douchebag that hates buuub08 for stating that Japan has nothing to be proud of cause everything came from China. Japan is a county that had to be reborn from the stone age after WWII. Give us a break, we had enough to suffer.
goe5 1 year ago
the katana was not the first nihonto,the Tachi was and the forging techniques were not introduced from China but discovered in situ.The general techniques of forging(i.e. heating,beating and welding were known by many cultures independantly of eadh other).The differential HARDENING may have been first discovered and used in Japan-they certinaly have historical blades of 1000 years old or more to prove it.China also had katana shaped blade in the 10 kinkdom era but not produced same way
jadekayak01 8 months ago
@jadekayak01 You seriously need to open up a history book.
The tachi was not the first nihonto either. The tachi was the first more or less Japanese design, but steel swords were used in Japan for about 800 years before the tachi appeared, like the chokuto.
The tachi was a flawed design and the katana was an improvement over it.
Differential hardening is older than steel works in Japan altogether. The ONLY difference is that the Japanese increased the line to make the sword curve.
Buuub08 8 months ago
Its a HISTORICAL FACT that iron/steel works were introduced to Japan from China, just as rice, tea and writing among other things.
The difference is that in China the forging techniques moved forward while in Japan it didnt.
Initially the Japanese swords were either locally made copies of Chinese/Korean ones (by Chinese/Korean smiths as a matter of fact) or even imported from the mainland.
If you would bother to spend 1h on education youd know why things are the way they are.
Buuub08 8 months ago
@Buuub08 The Tachi Is the first sword made in Japan that the JAPANESE considered Nihonto-The chokuto was made locally by local smiths but was still a copy of the Chinese style straight swords.
The Nihonto was a new style (curved and discovered by accident as a result of differential hardening) of sword but more importantly a new forging method was employed(new for the local smiths anyway).
Differential hardening was also used extensively elswhere but mostly on double edge blades so no curve
jadekayak01 8 months ago
@jadekayak01 The Tachi was influenced by local Ainu weapons. Nihonto isnt a style and the curve was not accidental, in fact Tachi had the curve forged in (mostly at the hilt not the blade), just as the Ainu swords.
No new forging methods were employed, they havent changed to this day as far as katanakaji go.
Differential hardening is used on ALL swords made in that region, the difference is in the extent of the temper line, and historically they were much narrower than they are now.
Buuub08 8 months ago
"That really was a Hitori Hanzo"
drdeath211 1 year ago
eso es absurdo, la potencia de la maquina fue minimizada, que aya cortado el mango no implica que aia sido con la potencia maxima
TDuD3 1 year ago
And what did this prove?
That hardened high carbon steel blades cant be cut by water.
Just another one-sided katana promo video. Any other quality sword would do just as well.
Buuub08 1 year ago
@Buuub08 you're just jealous that the Japanese samurais have created a master sword superior to others. Also very well known around the world. You should be the first to video other swords vs water cutters.
goe5 1 year ago
@goe5 jealous of what?
1) Samurai didnt create the sword.
2) The katana is actually a mere COPY of a Chinese sword.
3) Katanas actually are inferior mainly due to very high temper lines.
4) Very well known because its been popularized by media, as many other "Japanese" things which arent Japanese at all.
5) Historically blacksmiths of Japan were actually Chinese and Korean craftsmen.
6) The forging method is ENTIRELY Chinese.
7) Japanese steel is actually of very poor quality.
Buuub08 1 year ago
And any polished high carbon RHC50+ steel edge will stand up to the water jet.
Its just that no one bothers to do pointless promo vids aside from Japs who are crazy about promoting "their" culture.
Katana was developed from the Tachi, which was a completely useles sword. They increased the spine thickness and reduced the temper a little, but its still too high and often uneven resulting in weak spots. Done for the sake of good looks.
Read up history, katanas have failed more than any other sword
Buuub08 1 year ago
In particular they tend to snap in the upper 3rd of the blade, where the most strain is. Having an uneven and ridiculously high temper line results in the edge chipping easily, which then makes it easy to bend/snap.
There are people who particularly collect BROKEN katanas,and there has never been a shortage of them.
The Japanese tendency to exaggerate did not pay off.
Buuub08 1 year ago
@Buuub08 you have the education of a 5 year old
goe5 1 year ago
@goe5 nop, in fact i have a very good education regarding Asian history.
The 5 year olds are the ones who dont know shit about the sword aside from manga bullshit that its sooo uber lightsaber like that it can cut cars, buildings or whatever.
You should actually do some research on that and what the few honest Japanese historians actually tell you about it.
Fact is - the Japanese steel is of extremely poor quality and the construction of the sword is ENTIRELY Chinese, who brought it to Japan.
Buuub08 1 year ago
The Tachi itself DOES have local Ainu influence, which is why it was curved. The lack of metal armor created a need for a cutting blade - which is why they were curved. The idea was further adapted into the Tachi but it didnt play out so well which resulted in the Katana, which stands somewhere between chokuto, tachi, a chinese swords.
Construction-wise there is NO difference whatsoever, which only logical as metalworks ENTIRELY (and other things) were introduced to Japan by China and Korea.
Buuub08 1 year ago
I mean the construction difference between Chinese and Japanese swords, as well as the Korean ones actually.
They were all made the same way.
However, at a certain point the Chinese gave up on the inferior steel making method, the Japanese continued to use, and changed on to blast furnaces. Due to isolation and breaking ties with the Chinese the Japs never adapted the new furnaces, which can also be explained with the lack of any reliable and decent iron sources.
Buuub08 1 year ago
@Buuub08 just because you right 10 page replys on every comment, doesn't make you right. By the way, I'm Japanese. Quit disgracing our race with made in China bullshit. Who gives a fuck, Samurai's are Japanese, katanas were made by JAPANESE BLACKSMITHS! It doesn't matter if weapons started in China, Japanese blacksmiths hand made them therefore, you're wrong. Or do you wanna argue about it telling me blacksmiths didn't exist in Japan? :)
goe5 1 year ago
@goe5 i highly doubt youre Japanese. Because every Japanese knows that im right.
Im not disgracing anything. Whats disgraceful is taking credit for something you didnt do.
It aint no made in china bullshit, its history of your country.
Japanese blacksmiths were mostly Korean and Chinese craftsmen, thats a fact. Although it makes no difference who makes it, it matters WHAT one makes.
Blacksmiths in Japan do exist, but fact is that metalworks were INTRODUCED to Japan not developed there.
Buuub08 1 year ago
The Katana mimics Chinese swords of around 800s even in the ornamentation used. Im not saying its a bad sword, but - as i said - you shouldnt take credit for something that isnt yours. And the Katana is by no means a unique Japanese sword, its a mere adoption of Chinese designs and forgin techniques.
Actually, can you name me 10 things distinct to JAPANESE culture that would not be influenced or directly adapted by others (China mostly)?
Buuub08 1 year ago
"Adapted FROM others"
sorry.
And speaking of Samurai. The Samurai were pretty much a counterpart for the Chinese and Korean warrior elite, and even the Bushido code itself is entirely based on CHINESE philosophy as the Japanese basically have none of their own. All they ever did in terms of that is spell the names of Chinese scholars in Japanese, and popularized them as such over the world. And so, today youve got everyone thinking Zen is Japanese, as are Unmon, Soto and Hogen. Which is false.
Buuub08 1 year ago
@Buuub08 So basically with your logic....Japan didn't make Pokemon cause America invented cartoons? Am I right? Get off your computer and get a life, you know I'm right :) LoL now I know for fact you're not a historian, cause you stated quote "Japanese blacksmiths were mostly Korean and Chinese craftmen" Bwahahahaha wow...pathetic
goe5 1 year ago
@goe5 Not quite. Animation has no distinct starts. But, for example, some American and European animators have adapted the Japanese animation style.
Oh i have a life, a quite good one actually, cant complain.
I wouldnt call myself a historian, but i certainly had to study tons of history in my uni days.
And thats actually true that Korean and Chinese craftsmen were the main blacksmiths of Japan, in particular regarding iron steel works.
Buuub08 1 year ago
These guys with the watercutter would make excellent Bond villains. Took forever to get to the money shot.
Greichen 1 year ago
Katana was like bitch plz
UndiePatrolz 1 year ago 6
@UndiePatrolz what does that mean?
grimrotten 1 year ago
The results are very predictable.
It was demonstrated how the watercutter sliced through cheap knifes, common fry pan and some kind of unspecified metal. All this kitchen stuff is usually made of SOFT SHEET PLATES and is NO MATCH to 0,8%C tempered carbon steel. Due to the sharpness of the blade and polish there was no chance for the water stream to build up enough pressure.
Every good tempered and polished blade will achieve the same performance. There is NO sign of any nihonto-superiorNess:
Protherium 1 year ago
@Protherium I don't understand why you people from the broadsword crowd cannot appreciate this footage without thinking it proves the Katana superior to other swords. As a Katana fan I agree it does not demonstrate any superiority but it is cool =).
TeHGoodReverend 1 year ago
@TeHGoodReverend
I just answered to all the comments saying "katana is the best".
BTW there are lots of magical swords in sagas and myths of the Migration Period und Early Middle Ages from Europe. And what they do and how they look (following the saga descriptions) is pretty awesome. I can say i like all awesome swords including the katana. ;))) I just dont like irrational and unscientific myths.
Protherium 1 year ago
@Protherium Atilla the Hun's Sword of Mars for example? :) Or even Excalibur? Even as a Katana fan I love European swords too.
- Rev
TeHGoodReverend 1 year ago
LOLs... I thought the Water Cutter was another sword...
GGrrrrriffffoonn 1 year ago
日本刀 最高！！！
POPAIYA603 1 year ago 6
interesting test but shows nothing you could put a kitchen knife instead of katana and you would have the same effect.... the edge gives no surfase for the watercutter to use pressure on.....
kolotiti 1 year ago
please check 2:11 - 2:30 :D
mitzf08 1 year ago
you think that was real? the knife cutting? catana is thicker than that knife.....
kolotiti 1 year ago
@kolotiti I dont understand your comment, you say the same result could be achieved with a kitchen knife, despite the fact they used one in this video and it was cut in two, then you say the Katana is thicker then the kitchen knife explaining the differing result? Please make some sense -_-.
- Rev
TeHGoodReverend 1 year ago
@TeHGoodReverend the thing is the thicker you have the blade the easyer it is to cut... example what i easyer to cut a 1,5 mm (thickness of katana) bar or a 0,5 in half?(at least i have such kitchen knife), i meant that a steel kitchen knife can do same as that katana nothing more, but it must be made of quality steel not such teleshoping knifes :P .. and that wasnt a quality knife for sure cause japanese use to have knifes with quality similar to katanas so there shoudnt be a diference in test
kolotiti 1 year ago
@kolotiti Oh ok :P
TeHGoodReverend 1 year ago
you are wrong about the quality of japanese knives.most people could'nt afford steel let alone good steel.
bladesmiths in Japan were a much lower level of craftsman compared to weapon bladesmiths and produced a lowere quality product as a result.Thier are exceptions to everything and some people owned quality cutlery and farm implements-mostly the richer farmers and merchants
jadekayak01 8 months ago
@jadekayak01 Im not talking about historical used knives but about today manufactured knives. We have at home a set from japan they are rly sharp and high quality knives.
kolotiti 8 months ago
What they should do to the blade to to put it at an angle and have the water cutter come from behind on the spine and not the cutting edge.
greatsharkman 2 years ago
I doubt if the same blade could take it horizontally, the water would have more to work with, but who cares? Katanas are meant to cut one way, I'm not about to test a katana by hitting an apple with the side of the blade. If I'm going to test it, I'm really only going to be testing the most important part, the edge. Katanas aren't made with attacks from the side in mind. Defense was never really the idea but for its purpose, to cut, this katana seems to be made very well.
ausohj 2 years ago 3
put it horizontally and ill be impressed
ihatefatpeople3000 2 years ago
@ihatefatpeople3000
why don't we put your mum horizontally.
ihaterobbie123 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@ihaterobbie123 samurai fan boy, idc what you say, i bet all my money that a katana would snap like a twig if it was put horizontally
ihatefatpeople3000 2 years ago
i know it would you tit...it's just a supid request to make which was my point.
mum jokes are purposeful and overt ways to avoid a question, so much so that they are used to discredit the validity of stupid statements like yours.
the fact that the katana didn't get cut in two when blasted is proof that it was well made, despite what YOU think that I think, katana aren't made out of a mythical metal so stfu and gtfo.
ihaterobbie123 2 years ago 2
Do you think your intellegent when you explain the obvious?
ihatefatpeople3000 2 years ago
fuck sake, it's like talking to a child...
if you can't understand my viewpoint and WHY i think your original comment is stupid then there's no point talking to you.
ihaterobbie123 2 years ago
Samurais for the WIN!
goe5 2 years ago
Well, there's no flaws in that steel eh! No wonder a top of the line blade costs an arm and a leg!!
reasoning777 2 years ago
¡ 5:5 extreme razor ! sorprendente .
brewa90 2 years ago
From 2:08 it's Black Hawk Down soundtrack :D
OreWaSulekDesu 2 years ago
Then 4:44 Matrix theme :D
OreWaSulekDesu 2 years ago
-.-
honeybobkins 2 years ago
Katanas are not sharper than razors. Nihonto put to battle were finished in shitaji, a basic finish which is different from the refined shiage "finish polish" used on artistic blades or times of peace. A shitaji gave it a sharp edge but did not smooth the steel enough for hatakari and hamon to appear it's best. Also nihonto are not polished smooth like a mirror. Only the shinogi-ji and mune was mirror-like by burnishing. The actual ji and yakiba are a matte finish done by finger stones.
IncognitoQ 2 years ago 3
Lol, set em' straight, brother.
GeetarAdam 2 years ago
I have a Katana made by Yoshindo Yoshihara and it is as surgically sharp as a razor.
Lexesbenz 2 years ago
@Lexesbenz I have pocket knives that are just as sharp!
lordwilson100 1 year ago
A waterjet does not just spray water. They abrasive waterjets and use aluminum oxide, a Mohs hardness of 8.5-8 (diamond is 10) Water at 50,000psi is forced through a diamond orifice at the top of the eductor body. Al2O3 is fed through the side port of the body (the flexible tube going into the side of the head assembly) and into the high pressure stream, shot out through a tungsten carbide nozzle, which wears with use. There is probably no abrasive being mixed into the eductor body.
IncognitoQ 2 years ago 9
If the geometry of the nihonto "split the beam" without damage, then the grit-laced H2O would abrade the side of the blade like a sandblaster. It would round over the ko-shinogi and the yokote, but that didn't happen. There isn't a scuff on the kissaki or boshi. Anyone who has seen a waterjet-cut parts knows the surfaces have a unique sandblasted look. The tsuba in the video mysteriously breaks in two before the waterjet is actually completely through it. Entertaining but questionable.
IncognitoQ 2 years ago 3
@IncognitoQ Waterjet cutters don't usually use grit unless they are cutting something like titanium or tungsten, and even then it is usually only used on the larger thicknesses.
530iv8 1 year ago
rubbish water cutters always use git in steels,aluminuim,and other non ferrous metals.I have had a Jade bracelet 20mm thick cut and the machine could not cope except set for the thickest stainless steel.This is because jade(nephrite jade)is around 6.something on the Mohs scale and very hard.The harder it is the more it takes to cut.The machine was also slowed down as much as possible and the cuts were still curved
jadekayak01 8 months ago
One reason the Katana survived is because the edge is almost glass sharp, sharper than industrial razors. Another is that it's polished surface causes the water jet to slide off rather than cut into it..
Crim15 2 years ago
yay. the katana won! :J
scrubsrules98 2 years ago
what if you put your hand on the watercutter O.O
TwiceVicodin 2 years ago
Katana can't cut steel armor. Unless you want to ruin your sword (yes, quality swords, which are sharp, require proper usage. E.g. the edges are brittle, they rust quickly...).
About the video: now make water cutter go on the flat of the blade. What was shown can be performed with butter knife.
Ranziel1 2 years ago
google kabuto test and then come back and tell me it cant cut steel.
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
Kabutowari actually shows that a sword cannot cut through armour. The test uses a very big wind up to hit a stationary helmet thats at an appropriate height and even then only achieves gashes in the helmet, its not cut through and the sword doesn't penetrate much. In combat it would be impossible to do even this.
mrbeast85 2 years ago
i have to disagree...
the curve of a helmet is far more structurally sound than a joint at the shoulder, which if your at all familiar with JSA is a major strike point...
the person wearing that helmet would be dead... it opened a hole through steel... which directly refutes the comment i replied to...
a katana CAN cut steel... im not saying that it cuts steel like butter.... merely that the possibility is available for penetration
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
The problem is that in order to achieve those gashes a massive wind up is required etc; the test is carried out under completely artificial circumstances in combat you would have no hope of producing the same results. Fencing techniques against armoured oponents target areas such as joins at the shoulder precisesly because its practically impossible to cut through armour plate, even mail armour would be difficult to penetrate.
mrbeast85 2 years ago
like i said in my first reply to you... im not arguing that its probable.. im arguing that its possible... you have done nothing to attack my point...
your argument is something of a strawman....
i never claimed a sword could cut through armor plate...
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
Also the bowl of a helmet stands higher than the top of the head of the wearer, I doubt you would get enough meaningful penetration to singnifcantly injure, through cutting; blunt force trauma on the other hand is a different matter. The Katana fares about as well as any other comparable sword in cutting steel; that is that under any reasonable, practical circumstances it can't.
mrbeast85 2 years ago
read my comment again... you havent responded to any of it... just kept regurgitating the same crap from your first comment.
the egg is incredibly strong... because of its dome shape... the armor of the shoulder is far more fragile...
and as i said... i am merely debunking the "katana cant cut steel" comment...
that gash in the kabuto would split the skull...
btw combat is rarely reasonable...
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
My point is that kabutowari is an artificial test, would you agree?
mrbeast85 2 years ago
sure... but the results aren't a sword CAN penetrate steel... which is as i said... all it takes to disprove the original comment i replied to...
your argument may be valid for a helmet... but is not valid for a more fragile piece of armor.
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
Whats the point of this test? Showing Nihonto are superior? It really depend on the person wielding the sword. You give a retard a one million dollar sword and see if theres any value in that...
PhantasyStars 2 years ago
SUBTITLES PLEASE!
peace36660 2 years ago 10
strong katana can cut the armor of iron.
However, they are very few.
You cannot buy it because of expensive.
rustupidgay 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This experiment isn't fair.
They should have also made them face cross-wise. perpendicular each other.
teleostomi 2 years ago
i agree
orti1283 2 years ago
i'm surprised...
ithurtz23 2 years ago 2
I know both will but as well...however because of the forging process of the katana (which IS unique to japanese swords), it gives it a superior cutting-ability to weight ratio. I have all the respect for European swords, but that fact that the Katana is a set recipie, its too hard to compare it too all "European" swords. Maybe we should narrow our discussion to one "type" of sword.
Galwynd 2 years ago
Theres nothing inherently unique in the forging of Japanese swords. Name any aspect; differential hardening; the use of different steels forge welded together; folding steel; even the design is not altogether unique; look up Messer, and Swiss Sabre on Wiki. I have respect for Japanese swords also, I just dont subscribe to the notion that they or the martial culture that spawned them display altogether unique qualities above swords or martial arts from other cultures.
mrbeast85 2 years ago
As to which European sword to compare them to is a tricky question. I could say 'Long Sword' but there are also some very different forms of sword within that catagory. Long sword and Rapier are the usual swords pitted against the Katana.
mrbeast85 2 years ago
Well ya...if you're talking about a No Dachi...then yes, its going to be over 2.5 lbs. But if you're talking about a traditional Katana or Tachi...i'm telling you, you're not going to find one over 2.5lbs. Thats like saying "Well a Roman Gladius is light!" Well ya, try to go for extremes, but the fact still stands: Katana are lighter than European swords, and are crafted in a much supieror process, giving them a much better cutting ability than a European-style sword.
Galwynd 2 years ago
Well no thats not a fact at all. European swords are not always heavier then Katanas and many weigh the same around 2.5lbs; and I'm not talking about Roman swords either. And no Japanese swords were not crafted in a superior way to European blades either. Every technique you can mention that Japanese smiths used I can point to a similar European technique. And yes there are European swords that will cut as well as a Katana.
mrbeast85 2 years ago
i prefer a good broad sword myselfe
patrickadamgabriel 2 years ago
Very nice, but i bet a sharp butcher's knife would do the same. The metal piece split at 2:20 looks pretty thick and blunt.
VCat2006 2 years ago
Katanas are very well balanced in range (yes even in a swordfight rage is considered) and in weight. the eauropeans broadsword were very heavy, but they needed to be heavy so that they could also penetrate the heavy armor of the knights. i dont think a Katana has enough force to do that. and it would be a shame to mess up a katana on iron. also, swords have always been rare and worn everywhere only by the elite. crafting a big piece of compressed metal is expensive.
wizzzer1337 2 years ago
European swords are not heavy. Actually per length of steel they are lighter. They used piercing attacks to get into the armour weak points, like below the elbow or whichever part was weaker.
kardentyrell 2 years ago
This is a myth, which gets repeated 'ad infinitum'. European swords were not 'heavy', they were well balanced and weighed about the same as Japanese swords. They were also not designed to penetrate armour through cutting, crushing it or piercing it. The awl like points on 14/15th Century swords were designed to slide between the joins of plates or through gaps and vulnerable areas for example, eye slits or under the arm etc.
mrbeast85 2 years ago
this is true. however, the broadsword like the knights used where heaver than a katana. if you have ever held the two you would know this.
thedonqwet 2 years ago