i think i would have opened the place up before just going in did u notice the change in color of the smoke when fresh air was drawn in by opening the front door.learn from this guys it could of flashed or a backdraft was possible remember safety first
@mdcplnyou Valid point indeed, however, wind was a factor in that decision. If you look closely, you will see that the rear window on left side is open probably because the fire blew it out so it had vented itself a little bit, but not enough. The smoke was coming out the eaves pretty quick. It had a great amount flow behind it which means that ventilating before entry would've been a good idea and indicates that the fire is burning it's fuel pretty rapidly and hot.
Alot of great points had been made so i won't beat a dead horse.... Something that we all need to work on is the coordinated attack. Second due companies regardless of designation, can assist the first team with ventilation. One guy with a hook can do a sizeup of the entire structure and ventilate the appropriate places. Ladders must be thrown and can also be used as a vent tool to the window where it will be placed. South or North, good principles are good principles. Stay safe brothers.
i further contest that the inability to do these things automatically, without direction (auto-pilot) is what leads to firefighter injuries and death....we need to hold our firefighters and officers accountable for thier actions and knowledge (or lack there of) and hold them to higher standards than what we require today. this is not a rural volunteer department but rater a career department that works 24 hr shifts...they have plenty of time to train and perfect thier skills...
Thank-you for your thought provoking and insightful response. Your words have humbled me profoundly. Today when I go to work I will grab my donut and coffee, sit back in my recliner and catch up on my judge Judyas if.
Tim, I take my job very seriously. My comments were made with a training mindset. My previous statement regarding the auto-pilot fireman stands. I realize that comment may have come off as bashing the BVFDthat is not, and was not my intention.
However ANY career department regardless of its size should be proficient at the skills required on the fireground. I know that in my own FD we have numerous companies that need to get back to the basics. But instead we get wrapped up into all the specialties (haz-mat, tactical, etc) of the fire service and spend less and less of our time on the skills that the public expects us to be masters of.
Stretching a line, positioning apparatus, throwing ladders, doing searches, forcible entry, ventilation, size-up (etc.) are all things that should be second nature to each and every fireman, no excuses! I hold the fire service to a high standard and I hold its members to a high standards.
This video offers numerous teachable moments, and this video has already found its way into my digital files that I use in the classroom.
What do we see in this video that we could do differently next time??? This video is great example of what we would call our bread and butter residential fires, this type of house can be found all over this great country. This is the type of incident we should be able to go on auto-pilot on.
Going on "auto-pilot" can lead to many dangerous and even deadly mistakes. Never "assume" that any fire is so called "bread and butter". Approaches like that is what leads to firefighter injury and death. Always expect and prepare for the unexpected.
what's so bad about going on auto pilot? my comment was that this is the type of fire we "should" be able to go on auto-pilot. To be able to go on auto-pilot one must be programed with an auto-pilot feature...the only way to get that is with training, and experience...and lots of both.
knowing where to position rigs, doing a 360, stretching a line, bringing up tools, checking overhead, reading smoke, etc... these are all things that we should be able to go on auto-pilot, at EVERY fire...
The following is for educational value and does not in any way meant to disrespect the Bristol Va. Fire Department. I would love follow up comments from the men and women that responded to this fire to give feed back on my observations.
0:45 seconds: Everyone has already touched on the CHAOS (Chief Has Arrived On Scene). Simple solution and something that is done in our city on a regular basis is utilizing the yards/sidewalks/driveways to get out of the way of incoming apparatus.
This first arriving chief has effectly created an additional on scene obstacle and hazard for his men, and his action directly is responsible for the delay of suppression duties. What if this had been a 2 story, just look at the added distance the first due apparatus must carry ground ladders.
I think we are diverting our attention away from the problem here, the Chiefs buggy is no more of an obsticle than another random parked car we work around every fire, we just know who it belongs to. The fact that the crews were not ready to go to work is the cause of delay on this. Call a dog a dog and it could save lives
"I think we are diverting our attention away from the problem here, the Chiefs buggy is no more of an obsticle than another random parked car..." - thats not exactly true... your right by implying that we dont have control over what the public does, but we do have control over what we do...this IS an obsticle that we should not have to work around. So yes you can call a dog a dog, but appreciate a chief when you see a chief doing chiefly things;)
Judging by the bystanders conversation this is a loop street. If this is the case why did all apparatus come in the same way? In this short video we see 4 apparatus arrive, the chief arrives from the right of the screen while the next three engines arrive from left, stacking up way down the street. If it were possible for apparatus to approach from the right why wasnt that command given? Why werent the engineers familiar with this option (area familiarization)?
As the engines companies are arriving they utilize their siren way too long. @ 1:45 into the video the first arriving engine makes the scene, nosing up to the command vehicle.
Command has been on scene now for approx. 60 seconds. Time for him to exit his vehicle do a quick size up and interview bystanders about possible life risk. As the 1st due engine slows to stop the federal is bumpedmaybe it was an accident but had the IC been giving critical information to arriving companies that might have been all the additional noise needed to override the unaccounted persons report, or the downed power line report.
The first in company, it only takes one firefighter to deploy a handline, make sure that the backup fireman takes tools to the door. I cant tell if either 1st due firemen took any tools with them or not.
00:0001:45 Scene size up: single family residence with smoke showing from the rear of the structure. During this video I do not see a single hydrant, so consider water supply options. In this particular case I would utilize the tank water and have the 2nd in engine connect to the first engine. At the very least this fire will be contained with 300-500 gallons of water.
Reading smoke: early on the smoke is white in appearance, with very little velocity, very little density and little volume. Its emitting from the rear of the b/c, c, and C/D area of the home. It is unrestricted and moves with the outside environment (signs that it is volume pushed and not heat pushed).
At 02:25 seconds we start to see the first brown smoke emitting from the dormer on the alpha side. Indications that the fire as now broke into the voids of the home and this has now become a structure fire over a house (or room and contents) fire.
At 03:00 minutes someone drops a second line on the stairs leading up to the front porch. If this is to be used as a back-up line why not leave it at the base of the stairs? By adding this line to the already narrow porch we are creating additional trip hazards.
Also the gentleman that is pulling that line (I am assuming that he is an engineer), starts pulling that line hand over hand and lets it pile up to the left of the stairs. Flake that line so that it is easier to advance should the need arise.
At 03:30 minutes smoke volumes/pressure is increasingsmoke is starting to push through seams along the roof of side alpha.
04:20 an additional apparatus arrives on the right out of the cameras view, or at least this is my assumption since I can hear a large engine and air brakes applied.
04:55 entry is made. 1st due crew arrived on the porch at 02:50. It is clear that this crew waited for two out before making entry. No foul here aside from the 2nd in engine arrived at 02:15, why did it take over 2 min for that 2nd crew to get to the porch? In that 2 minutes the fire went from being a room and contents fire to a structure fire. (IMHO this is an indicator that the department is woefully understaffed).
Once the front door is opened we have smoke emitting from the top 1/5th of the doorthis is an indicator that the fire is above the first floor, make sure you open the ceiling when going through the doorwould be a good idea for the 2 out crew to pop an inspection hole on the porch covering as well.
6 min in a ladder is brought up to bravo sidea ladder not placed is no goodshit hits the fan the interior crews need those ladders in placeespecially since the smoke indicates the fire is above them and can travel behind them with little or no warning.
most of the flames were at the back of the house... were the fire was initially started people in the area are calling it arson. it sparked again this morning 5-6-09 and fire trucks were sent to the scene again.
Thank god that was a 1 room fire when they got there!
A couple of questions?
Why stretch the 2nd line before the first is in operation?
Why would two guys stretch two lines (with one member on each line) when they can get the first line into operation (with 2 members, which is also severely understaffed) and most likely put the fire out?
Everyone is always upset when a police officer blocks the front of the fire building for the first arriving companies, here a COMMAND CAR blocked the front
I mean that thangs goin bad back there rafters and eeerythingang......lol@ the accent.
tjohnzvamm 2 months ago
why would the chief park in front of the house lol
Thatuptownguy 1 year ago 5
i think i would have opened the place up before just going in did u notice the change in color of the smoke when fresh air was drawn in by opening the front door.learn from this guys it could of flashed or a backdraft was possible remember safety first
mdcplnyou 1 year ago
@mdcplnyou Valid point indeed, however, wind was a factor in that decision. If you look closely, you will see that the rear window on left side is open probably because the fire blew it out so it had vented itself a little bit, but not enough. The smoke was coming out the eaves pretty quick. It had a great amount flow behind it which means that ventilating before entry would've been a good idea and indicates that the fire is burning it's fuel pretty rapidly and hot.
nsrailfann4life91 8 months ago
that brown smokes foreshadows deterioration.
alter656667 2 years ago
how did it happen?
youjacqueline 2 years ago
Alot of great points had been made so i won't beat a dead horse.... Something that we all need to work on is the coordinated attack. Second due companies regardless of designation, can assist the first team with ventilation. One guy with a hook can do a sizeup of the entire structure and ventilate the appropriate places. Ladders must be thrown and can also be used as a vent tool to the window where it will be placed. South or North, good principles are good principles. Stay safe brothers.
phirephighter 2 years ago
Kingtown!!!!!! What a crappy neighborhood
gdwag01 2 years ago
Comment removed
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
i further contest that the inability to do these things automatically, without direction (auto-pilot) is what leads to firefighter injuries and death....we need to hold our firefighters and officers accountable for thier actions and knowledge (or lack there of) and hold them to higher standards than what we require today. this is not a rural volunteer department but rater a career department that works 24 hr shifts...they have plenty of time to train and perfect thier skills...
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
Oh fire god we should all be more like you.
vt4life 2 years ago
Tim,
Thank-you for your thought provoking and insightful response. Your words have humbled me profoundly. Today when I go to work I will grab my donut and coffee, sit back in my recliner and catch up on my judge Judyas if.
Tim, I take my job very seriously. My comments were made with a training mindset. My previous statement regarding the auto-pilot fireman stands. I realize that comment may have come off as bashing the BVFDthat is not, and was not my intention.
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
However ANY career department regardless of its size should be proficient at the skills required on the fireground. I know that in my own FD we have numerous companies that need to get back to the basics. But instead we get wrapped up into all the specialties (haz-mat, tactical, etc) of the fire service and spend less and less of our time on the skills that the public expects us to be masters of.
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
Stretching a line, positioning apparatus, throwing ladders, doing searches, forcible entry, ventilation, size-up (etc.) are all things that should be second nature to each and every fireman, no excuses! I hold the fire service to a high standard and I hold its members to a high standards.
This video offers numerous teachable moments, and this video has already found its way into my digital files that I use in the classroom.
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
I suggest you use it for the same, if you do it will only benefit the public you serve.
Incidentally, I know this department well - My brother is on the job @ BVFD and he was on that run.
Sincerely,
Brandon Roark
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
What do we see in this video that we could do differently next time??? This video is great example of what we would call our bread and butter residential fires, this type of house can be found all over this great country. This is the type of incident we should be able to go on auto-pilot on.
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
Going on "auto-pilot" can lead to many dangerous and even deadly mistakes. Never "assume" that any fire is so called "bread and butter". Approaches like that is what leads to firefighter injury and death. Always expect and prepare for the unexpected.
qwaynick 2 years ago
what's so bad about going on auto pilot? my comment was that this is the type of fire we "should" be able to go on auto-pilot. To be able to go on auto-pilot one must be programed with an auto-pilot feature...the only way to get that is with training, and experience...and lots of both.
knowing where to position rigs, doing a 360, stretching a line, bringing up tools, checking overhead, reading smoke, etc... these are all things that we should be able to go on auto-pilot, at EVERY fire...
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
The following is for educational value and does not in any way meant to disrespect the Bristol Va. Fire Department. I would love follow up comments from the men and women that responded to this fire to give feed back on my observations.
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
0:45 seconds: Everyone has already touched on the CHAOS (Chief Has Arrived On Scene). Simple solution and something that is done in our city on a regular basis is utilizing the yards/sidewalks/driveways to get out of the way of incoming apparatus.
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
This first arriving chief has effectly created an additional on scene obstacle and hazard for his men, and his action directly is responsible for the delay of suppression duties. What if this had been a 2 story, just look at the added distance the first due apparatus must carry ground ladders.
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
I think we are diverting our attention away from the problem here, the Chiefs buggy is no more of an obsticle than another random parked car we work around every fire, we just know who it belongs to. The fact that the crews were not ready to go to work is the cause of delay on this. Call a dog a dog and it could save lives
ifd659 2 years ago
Comment removed
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"I think we are diverting our attention away from the problem here, the Chiefs buggy is no more of an obsticle than another random parked car..." - thats not exactly true... your right by implying that we dont have control over what the public does, but we do have control over what we do...this IS an obsticle that we should not have to work around. So yes you can call a dog a dog, but appreciate a chief when you see a chief doing chiefly things;)
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
Judging by the bystanders conversation this is a loop street. If this is the case why did all apparatus come in the same way? In this short video we see 4 apparatus arrive, the chief arrives from the right of the screen while the next three engines arrive from left, stacking up way down the street. If it were possible for apparatus to approach from the right why wasnt that command given? Why werent the engineers familiar with this option (area familiarization)?
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
As the engines companies are arriving they utilize their siren way too long. @ 1:45 into the video the first arriving engine makes the scene, nosing up to the command vehicle.
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
Command has been on scene now for approx. 60 seconds. Time for him to exit his vehicle do a quick size up and interview bystanders about possible life risk. As the 1st due engine slows to stop the federal is bumpedmaybe it was an accident but had the IC been giving critical information to arriving companies that might have been all the additional noise needed to override the unaccounted persons report, or the downed power line report.
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
The first in company, it only takes one firefighter to deploy a handline, make sure that the backup fireman takes tools to the door. I cant tell if either 1st due firemen took any tools with them or not.
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
00:00 01:45 Scene size up: single family residence with smoke showing from the rear of the structure. During this video I do not see a single hydrant, so consider water supply options. In this particular case I would utilize the tank water and have the 2nd in engine connect to the first engine. At the very least this fire will be contained with 300-500 gallons of water.
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
Reading smoke: early on the smoke is white in appearance, with very little velocity, very little density and little volume. Its emitting from the rear of the b/c, c, and C/D area of the home. It is unrestricted and moves with the outside environment (signs that it is volume pushed and not heat pushed).
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
At 02:25 seconds we start to see the first brown smoke emitting from the dormer on the alpha side. Indications that the fire as now broke into the voids of the home and this has now become a structure fire over a house (or room and contents) fire.
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
At 03:00 minutes someone drops a second line on the stairs leading up to the front porch. If this is to be used as a back-up line why not leave it at the base of the stairs? By adding this line to the already narrow porch we are creating additional trip hazards.
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
Also the gentleman that is pulling that line (I am assuming that he is an engineer), starts pulling that line hand over hand and lets it pile up to the left of the stairs. Flake that line so that it is easier to advance should the need arise.
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
At 03:30 minutes smoke volumes/pressure is increasingsmoke is starting to push through seams along the roof of side alpha.
04:20 an additional apparatus arrives on the right out of the cameras view, or at least this is my assumption since I can hear a large engine and air brakes applied.
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
04:55 entry is made. 1st due crew arrived on the porch at 02:50. It is clear that this crew waited for two out before making entry. No foul here aside from the 2nd in engine arrived at 02:15, why did it take over 2 min for that 2nd crew to get to the porch? In that 2 minutes the fire went from being a room and contents fire to a structure fire. (IMHO this is an indicator that the department is woefully understaffed).
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
Once the front door is opened we have smoke emitting from the top 1/5th of the doorthis is an indicator that the fire is above the first floor, make sure you open the ceiling when going through the doorwould be a good idea for the 2 out crew to pop an inspection hole on the porch covering as well.
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
6 min in a ladder is brought up to bravo sidea ladder not placed is no goodshit hits the fan the interior crews need those ladders in placeespecially since the smoke indicates the fire is above them and can travel behind them with little or no warning.
pedalinmedic 2 years ago
most of the flames were at the back of the house... were the fire was initially started people in the area are calling it arson. it sparked again this morning 5-6-09 and fire trucks were sent to the scene again.
thunderirc 2 years ago
Thank god that was a 1 room fire when they got there!
A couple of questions?
Why stretch the 2nd line before the first is in operation?
Why would two guys stretch two lines (with one member on each line) when they can get the first line into operation (with 2 members, which is also severely understaffed) and most likely put the fire out?
Everyone is always upset when a police officer blocks the front of the fire building for the first arriving companies, here a COMMAND CAR blocked the front
FirefighterMythBustr 2 years ago