the Italians were excellent swordsmen but, simply not the best at the renaissance age. It's true that they contributed with most of the great sword techniches in the medieval ages and renaissance, but during this period if u had to face a WELL trained spaniard swordsman well... u simply will shit in your pants. They were the most feared foot soldiers of all over European renacentist infantry (Tercios...)
(continued) To be fair, there are several other responses to this assault as seen in the video, some of which are better, but they would require more explanation than is reasonable in the space of a YouTube comment.
(continued) Given the flawed assault in the video, the correct response would be for the patient to take the time of the agent's assault to change the angle by stepping to his outside on the circle, close his inside line with point descended slightly, and place his point on the agent's high inside.
Had the agent made a reasonable Spanish assault to the low line, in tempo and in opposition with his point descended and guard in the high line, then the patient should have replied with a desvio.
The "Spanish sort of way" begins by doing this in a more reasonable fashion, on the part of both partners. First, the agent (ie, the one who begins the action with the thrust) should make his assault in tempo and on target...which is not happening in this video. Without this, the patient (the one who receives the assault and defends) is not given the right stimulus to respond correctly. The agent is actively avoiding engagement, collapsing his guard, and assaulting with his center-line open.
@Quillons1 They know what they're talking about. The Rapier originated in Spain and there too was developed the most effective style of fencing. The Spaniards were well known as the best Swordsman in Europe.
@themailman43 Whatever. I think if you REALLY did your homework you'd find that it was the Italian systems that dominated Europe and were the most sought after masters and instruction. You are they only person/source I've ever heard say "The Spaniards were well known as the best swordsmen in Europe." Frankly, this does not speak volumes for your experience. Keep trying though.
@themailman43 In addition, If they were so great, why did they have to develop technique SPECIFICALLY to face Italian-trained opponents. And the fact that the rapier was born in Spain is a theory, not solid fact. Study up.
@Quillons1 You talk as if you were some kind of a master know it all about swords and swordfights. Italian styles of swordfights were NOT better than the Spanish.....do yourself a favor and go to the library and read a little.
@themailman43 And you talk as if you have no idea about what period fencing is. So I guess we're even. I had forgotten you were even there. You may go now. Yes, that's a dismissal. Keep to your small, ridiculous SCA mindset on what period rapier is and you'll continue to be a joke. Instead of looking at period manuals, try reading one. I've done my share.
@pochazet
Maybe the known Spanish manuals were written when the rapier's cutting edge hadn't gone completely vestigial?
(I don't know much about the cut-and-thrust/rapier timeline of development.)
HipposHateWater 7 months ago
the Italians were excellent swordsmen but, simply not the best at the renaissance age. It's true that they contributed with most of the great sword techniches in the medieval ages and renaissance, but during this period if u had to face a WELL trained spaniard swordsman well... u simply will shit in your pants. They were the most feared foot soldiers of all over European renacentist infantry (Tercios...)
Nagrandt 1 year ago 4
Miguel, is that you in green?
habojspade 1 year ago
(continued) To be fair, there are several other responses to this assault as seen in the video, some of which are better, but they would require more explanation than is reasonable in the space of a YouTube comment.
lorkpoin 2 years ago
(continued) Given the flawed assault in the video, the correct response would be for the patient to take the time of the agent's assault to change the angle by stepping to his outside on the circle, close his inside line with point descended slightly, and place his point on the agent's high inside.
Had the agent made a reasonable Spanish assault to the low line, in tempo and in opposition with his point descended and guard in the high line, then the patient should have replied with a desvio.
lorkpoin 2 years ago
The "Spanish sort of way" begins by doing this in a more reasonable fashion, on the part of both partners. First, the agent (ie, the one who begins the action with the thrust) should make his assault in tempo and on target...which is not happening in this video. Without this, the patient (the one who receives the assault and defends) is not given the right stimulus to respond correctly. The agent is actively avoiding engagement, collapsing his guard, and assaulting with his center-line open.
lorkpoin 2 years ago
We have this in Escrima, but I ask why? The movement is too long, and against someone with an accompanying dagger, it's really a danger.
I do use it sparingly, since it's mainly a cut&thrust style, and only if I am forced to use it.
diestroduende 2 years ago
Parry prime followed by a Mandritta Squalembrato. "In a Spanish sort of way"? Are you serious? What is a "Spanish sort of way"?
Quillons1 2 years ago
@Quillons1 They know what they're talking about. The Rapier originated in Spain and there too was developed the most effective style of fencing. The Spaniards were well known as the best Swordsman in Europe.
themailman43 1 year ago
@themailman43 Whatever. I think if you REALLY did your homework you'd find that it was the Italian systems that dominated Europe and were the most sought after masters and instruction. You are they only person/source I've ever heard say "The Spaniards were well known as the best swordsmen in Europe." Frankly, this does not speak volumes for your experience. Keep trying though.
Quillons1 1 year ago
@themailman43 In addition, If they were so great, why did they have to develop technique SPECIFICALLY to face Italian-trained opponents. And the fact that the rapier was born in Spain is a theory, not solid fact. Study up.
Quillons1 1 year ago
@Quillons1 The Rapier was born in Spain , and i have done my researching and reading. You should do some of both yourself.
themailman43 1 year ago
@Quillons1 You talk as if you were some kind of a master know it all about swords and swordfights. Italian styles of swordfights were NOT better than the Spanish.....do yourself a favor and go to the library and read a little.
themailman43 1 year ago
@themailman43 And you talk as if you have no idea about what period fencing is. So I guess we're even. I had forgotten you were even there. You may go now. Yes, that's a dismissal. Keep to your small, ridiculous SCA mindset on what period rapier is and you'll continue to be a joke. Instead of looking at period manuals, try reading one. I've done my share.
Quillons1 1 year ago