@mortalisk yeah it depends. They'll only be efficient in things that are within it's own self interest. (military, .etc) it's much easier t spot a bad general than it is to spot a bad person in charge of a certain governmental program (which you probably haven't heard of)
ya thank god for enron.airlines that kept the faa fee,t mobil,exon valdez oil spill,bp oil spill.corporations are awsome.customer service is better then govt.corporations can offer service from india.the usa has to stay in the usa.perhaps dmv can be outsourced to exotic india.imagine goint to india for dmv. lol.
One reason why Democratic Socialism hasn't had a bigger impact in America. That Democratic Socialists would like to see, is because of the amount of money that government wastes.
@FRSFreeStatePlus very true. There is a site on the internet that lists each represenative for the houses and lists how much the person voted in for increase spending vs increase revenue. Democrats, last I looked, currently have 0 people who voted for more increase than spending. Republicans are as well, but there was a few that increased revenue more than spending. But about 90% increase more spending.
@nolaOE800 Thank you!!!! Ive watched many video's of Friedman on youtube & for the most part he is praised by the viewers. I dont understand why. This isnt even the dumbest statement he's made. This world or atleast the people in it are insane.
@nolaOE800 He's hinting people will always have an incentive to work towards freedom because the alternative is wastage with undoubtedly clear evidence around. With that there is only one direction for rational people to work towards: Freedom (as opposed to government control).
doesn't that philosophy simply guarantee a never-ending rat-race?
I certainly see what he's saying (now that you explained it) but I just can't agree. you obviously know more about Friedman's philosophy than I do, and I can respect that, and I can admit when I'm under-informed on a given topic. but I simply can't agree with a never-ending struggle, as opposed to the idea of a temporary struggle aimed at a permanent solution.
@nolaOE800 It will be a struggle if you look at it at first but in the end of the day, it's people that makes the government. The government is an inanimate entity made up of people and it's the people that dictates the form and structure of the government. By default, the people should always win even if the government sector is larger as it is their actions that hurts everyone in the end of the day .
@nolaOE800 However, the government will always resort to trickery (propaganda, lies and false assurance) to make you believe that they are efficient which would prolong the process of self-realization. Some examples of those are North Korea. People there are already facing massive hunger and starvation so there is already a tendency to abolish the administration there.
@nolaOE800 Your temporary struggle is when they revolutionise to change the system to a permanent solution (a system that doesn't oppress and encourage liberty) such as the USA constitution act.
@nolaOE800 It's better than outsourcing all the jobs cause that's 'free' market. We used to follow the growth model and kesynian economics way back when we didn't have these bozos killing education and letting corporations controls our lives. Shit our education system is so in the toilet we'll never compete with India and our manufacturing base with China.
@HoGraz You can't get out of a recession by printing money and with inefficient spending. It looks like it works for a little while until the counterfeit money catches up with everyone and we suffer inflation. These economic crisis's are the result of Keynesian economics, inflation-ism, and government interventionism. All priming the pump does is prolong the inevitable recession/depression. We need to change monetary policy and get the government out of our economy ASAP!!
@AroundSun Godo points. I think we're almost suffering from deflation currently. Seems like maybe what you're getting at is the recessions are set up so the banks can get more entrenched. To me though I think the ones who are keynesian tend to want more central planning to balance and benefit private enterprise.
@HoGraz Whether it is planned or not is irrelevant I think. Most of the problems we face are due to good intentions. Do gooders in washington making our decisions with out money. Ya there is corruption and conflicts of interest, but every time the gov screws up our economy it isn't on purpose. The road to hell was paved with good intentions. It is not the abusive power, but the power to abuse. Take the power away, and it limits incentive to throw money at the government.
@HoGraz I'm very curious how corporations "control" our lives. After all, corporations can only make money by providing goods or services that people want...unless the Government helps them with corrupt policies. Corporations also employ people voluntarily, while the government takes money away from others, by force, to spend as they see fit regardless on how the taxpayers feel. Lastly, education is almost entirely socialist and unionized...no wonder it is terrible.
@kev3d Lastly? I suppose these were rhetorical questions. That's the only thing you had a point on. Look up Citizens United vs. Federal Court System. That should explain a few things. Also when presidential debates go on they are dictated by the news media who has corporate shareholders. That's why the Constitutional Party or the Green Party never gets to debate.Education at least is discussed with Democrats. The military is part of the government and they employ more people than any corporation
@HoGraz I assume you mean Citizens United V Federal Election Commission, which was a good decision because it removes barriers to free speech. After all, if a union, church, individual or group can make a political speech or film, so can a corporation. Of course televised debates have been largely controlled by the non-profit Commission on Presidential Debates since 1987, which is run by the Democrat and Republican parties! They are the ones that stipulate the 15% poll rule.
@kev3d No it is not a good idea. You're going to eat those words. See everytime you vote Republican, you're voting to end voting. The corporate interest is completely mindless and only seeks to keep itself alive. See I like to participate in my government. Hiding behind the guise of pretending to be constitutional is what most people do. The constitution is beyond important, but you can still have major problems with a Constitution. I prefer to not have rigged elections in my FREE country.
@HoGraz Well I don't vote republican for one thing, secondly, McCain-Feingold was unconstitutional. Thirdly, of course corporate interest seeks its own ends....so does EVERYTHING ELSE. Unions are for-profit, for their own expansion and power....why can they produce political statements and a company cannot? Whats the difference? You cannot pick and choose which speech you like, you have to allow all of it.
@kev3d how would I know about freedom though. I'm sure the Coche brothers want me to believe I have communist sympathies cause I'm not into their idea of economics which route themselves to the "major players."
@HoGraz How would you know about freedom? By educating yourself. Not state education, but actually listening and trying to understand different ideas. By examining not only benefits, but also costs and (perhaps most importantly) unintended consequences. The information is out there, and today it is easier to get than ever.
@kev3d I disagree with that. Most people are mind-controlled as is. The corporate power is a strong one. They can outspend anyone. What they wanted to do is basically what Fallwell did with the "Clinton Chronicles." Just more bullying and fear mongering. When they control everything completely you will see private police beating the shit out of workers again and they'll get on the tv and say we need to protect the free market from these socialist anarchists. They're terrified of the Green party
@HoGraz Well most people voted for Obama, and you seem to favor democrats, but by your reasoning most people who voted for him were "mind controlled". By the way, Jerry Falwell did not make the Chronicles, he merely sold them, but who cares? That's freedom of speech. If leftists want to show Bush with a Hitler Mustache or rights show Obama as chairman Mao, then so be it...it may be inaccurate and in poor taste but tough shit.
@kev3d I actually didn't vote for Obama, but yes mind-controlled to an extent. We do have other options besides Universal Healthcare. You're right about the Bush Hitler freedom of speech thing but that doesn't have anything to do with free market.
@HoGraz Hate speech, or more correctly, silly, misdirected, juvenile speech, however ignorant, is still protected and yes, it is part of the free market because the free market also deals with the exchange of ideas. If I want to "sell" my ideas (as a paid writer) then I am free to do so, or I can give my ideas away for free. If my ideas are unpopular, they might not be very profitable, but they will still be protected. It is up to the listener or reader to decide, not the government.
@kev3d "make me pay for it" is Juvenile speech. You can let the grown ups do the politcking. You can go on about free markets all you want and pretend if you talk from an authoritarian mindset to prove your point. There's plenty of people who run on a religious view of free markets that smuggle grants into their administration to pay off their debts.
@HoGraz I didn't say "make you pay", but if you are receiving it, then yes, whenever possible, you SHOULD pay. Only the government can "Make" someone pay for something and more often than not, they force people to buy things and services for OTHER people, special interests, unions and companies. In a free market, people and companies rise and fall on their own merits, not by theft of public funds.
@kev3d Yea you did. You said "make me pay for your ___________." That is typical right wing bullying. This shit is going to end. I hope you heard about democrat that got shot the other day. Fox News said she died. I had to watch CNN to get the real news. She's still alive. Hmm. Oh and I live where a few years ago a man shot up a Unitarian Church. He was big into Hannity as stated in his suicide note. All he talked about was hating liberals etc. Beck is on vacation with the Coche Bros.
@HoGraz Well then I misspoke. In any case, the beneficiary should bear the costs. And again, I am not "right wing". I am for the legalization of drugs, gay marriage, the separation of church and state, reduction of military spending and against all subsidies for corporations.
And why do you bring up the attempted murder of a Congresswoman? It has nothing to do with economics, and if you read anything about the assassin, it is clear he is a nutcase.
@HoGraz The unibomber was against technology, Lee Harvey Oswald was a marxist, Sirhan Sirhan was a Palestinian extremist.....whats the point? Assassins have particular ideas in their head...that does not mean that whomever they listened to was to blame. Sean Hannity or Glenn Beck or Keith Olbermann or Wolf Blitzer or whoever...none of them have ever advocated violence against those who disagree politically. Further, Jared Loughner's writings show he was totally out of his mind.
@kev3d trying to devize their next politcal strategy. See what happens in this country is most people go by strengths and weaknesses. It's just come to who can scream the loudest. Also this money guilt tripping is a popular one. It's a great way to overstep issues. When the economy was going insane under Bush everyone just looked away. Now they're back to blaming Dems for their mistakes. You're one of the few who has something to go on but you tried to sidestep that others have problems that
@HoGraz Yes, the economy was "insane" under Bush, mainly from cheap monetary policy, bailouts and massive government spending...so why then did the Democrats increase all of those things?
@kev3d NEVER addressed. In fact they are cast out as leaches. Try telling that to the people the free market has helped in other countries so they HAVE to work for shit in factories. It really just shows how disconnected right wingers are from humanity. It all just always comes back to money. That's such a non political ideology.
@HoGraz You are changing the subject to outsourcing, but fine. Let me ask, if those factories were not in those poor countries, what would those employees be doing otherwise to make ends meet? The fact is, they would not work there if they were not getting some sort of benefit. And lets say the factory stays in the US with its expensive employees, what happens to the price of the goods made? Would they go up or down? If they go up, who does that affect the most?
@kev3d Because they'd make them accountable. This is strong-arm politics. The conservatives in this country have no idea how it works. When the Patriot Act gets backed by the people and all that mess you know they have no fundamentals anymore.
@kev3d Yea. AIG and Goldman Sachs funded McCain too, but everyone that's Republican thinks Boener's GONNA REALLY SHOW EM! "This is the people's gavel!" Shit they've had the ball for YEARS.
@kev3d "Obamacare" is the definition of Right Wing juvenile speech. Other high advanced countries have Universal Healthcare and people seem to enjoy it. Our system is totally pathetic unless you can afford it and not get kicked off.
@HoGraz Obamacare is a lot shorter than "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act" the same way that "Star Wars" is much shorter than "Strategic Defense Initiative". Calm down, its just a literary shortcut. Anyway, "Universal" care aint so universal when it comes down to long waits, high taxes and, in Australia where I currently live, Aborigines live much shorter life spans. Many Canadians seek care in the US. Why do you think care is so expensive in the US? It is because of regulation.
@kev3d How about "the Universal Healthcare bill"? I'm sure you were trying to sound intellegent by using the "correct" term. I guess you're right. The left is the elite after all. After we get our education straightened out because we were unfortunate enough not to be born into good christian homes and working our way up the corporate ladder for a moment at McDonald's we can go about taking advantage of our freedoms to start our own publishing companies that most dumbasses won't read from.
@HoGraz Because it is not "Universal Healthcare", it is among other things, a mandate that the uninsured purchase insurance. But you imply that somehow, if someone is born in less than privileged circumstances, that they have no upward mobility. But of course, one does (except where the government restricts it), I was born in a rural area, publicly educated, worked on farms and later at Target, but over time, I have lived in 4 nations and visited about 20 more. If I can do it, anyone can.
@kev3d Good for you. One size doesn't fit all. We do have a lot of freedom I will say, but still one size doesn't fit all. Just like not every kid who is in Special Ed shouldn't be in TAG. Seen it.
@HoGraz Correct, one size fits all does not work with education, why should we have it with health or any other service? When consumers have the right to choose without government interference, choice is multiplied, quality goes up and prices come down. It is simple market forces at work. It will never be perfect because people are people and make mistakes, there will be fraud and theft but over all, it will vastly improve.
@HoGraz If that is their choice, then so be it. It is not for me or anyone else to choose how others live their lives so long as they do not violate the rights of others.
@kev3d Well, look around. A lot of cooky right wingers think it's something to shoot people about. That shooting here happened while Bush was in his second term. That just goes to show you the level of insanity we have not to mention lack of discussion.
@HoGraz Leftwingers can be (and have been) assassins and terrorists too. Do not make the mistake of blaming others for the actions of one. That said, Jared Loughner's youtube profile lists the Communist Manifesto under his books. Does that mean he was a marxist? Maybe. Maybe not. But I have known many Marxists and although I vehemently disagree with their philosophy, none of those I know have killed anyone. Put the blame on the assassin, not others.
@kev3d It's expensive because we have about four healthcare providers who make sure to lobby against Universal Healthcare. These providers started out as nonprofits, but I assume they thought they could better provide for everyone if they went for profit.
@HoGraz Well first of all that isn't true, but lets just assume that it is, what then is the solution? Free trade would force the prices to come down. Remember that there are only a handful of TV makers, but as stated...they get better and cheaper each year. Same with computers. And MP3 players, digital cameras, smart phones and so on. Because trade in those things is less restricted, market forces make them better and more widely available.
@HoGraz Correct, it is unprofitable to make TVs in the US. Partly because environmental regulations, partly because of unions, partly because the Japanese and Koreans simply do it better. And so what? Because you spend less on a TV it means you have more money to spend elsewhere in the country. The market evolves and no job lasts forever. The government should not "support" US tv makers any more than it should support US candle makers against foreign lightbulbs.
@HoGraz Now, to be more specific, it should be noted that while TV's are not assembled in the US, many of the components are. In real terms, there is no such thing as a "Japanese Car" or a "Korean TV", these are just loose terms referring to where the company is headquartered. For instance, Toyota assembles cars in the US and GM builds cars in Canada. Ford builds cars in Australia and so on. Apple builds ipods in China...etc.
@kev3d Of course anyone can own stock in Apple, or Sony, or Microsoft, or Toyota or Walmart or whatever publicly listed company. That way one can get a slice of the profits either through dividends or by selling the stock at a higher price. But what about the poor factory worker who lost his job? Again, no job is sacred and people have to evolve. Did cars put horseshoe makers out of work? Did the phone but telegraph operators out of work? Progress is hard but it is progress.
@kev3d If we really wanted to keep all jobs in America, then every road would be made by hand-chiseled gravel. Every building foundation would be dug with spoons. Every field would be plowed with hand spades. Every elevator would have an operator. And every circuit board would be soldered by hand. In a modern society we trade certain jobs for efficiency. But, because those new, efficient alternatives need creators and administrators, on the whole there are more jobs, not less.
@kev3d Oh on a side note I was going to say in Europe in places where they privatized the rail system the only people who can afford to ride them are the wealthy. That's why hitch hiking is so big. Also in Spain most people just buy cars and walk away from the lease. Hmm. Now they're in debt.
@HoGraz There are many rail lines in europe, some private, some state owned, some mixed, so I cannot comment on specifics. if a private rail line charges too much, it will lose its customers and it will close; if it charges too little, it will not cover it's expenses and will close. Trains must compete with planes, buses, boats and cars too. If only the wealthy can afford it, then let them blow their money on expensive tickets, but it doesn't sound like a good business model.
@HoGraz But let us look at Amtrak, something I know a bit about. Amtrak has lost money every year it has existed...EVERY YEAR. Whats worse is that after losing billions it GETS MORE MONEY. Does that make sense? In one line, Amtrak lost over $300 per passenger...it would have been cheaper for the taxpayers to buy the passengers a plane ticket instead. What can be a more clear example of government mismanagement? And trains are not exactly new, confusing technology either.
@HoGraz Now for your Spain example. Ive never been to Spain (yet) but lets assume what you say is true. So what? If people purchase or lease cars they cannot afford, then they ought not be buying or leasing them in the first place. I have very little sympathy for those who conduct their lives with reckless abandon. They make the mistake, they should bear the consequences. Likewise if someone (or company) spends or invests wisely, they should profit.
@kev3d It is said that the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Trusting the federal government to run ANYTHING is dubious at best...just look at it's track record. It is SO far beyond the limits of the Constitution that it is criminal. But even when you look at those duties the government IS supposed to do, like the military and post office, the government does a terrible and increasingly expensive job.
@HoGraz Reagan and his democratic congress were bad on spending (though it was during the cold war) but what really went wrong in the 80s and early 90s? The Berlin Wall came down, the Soviet Union dissolved. Taxes were cut. The economy grew. The stagflation of Ford and Carter was ended. Computers started to become common in the home (as did many other electronics) and so on. The 80s were prosperous not because government did more, but because it did less overall.
@HoGraz Now that does not mean one should vote for republicans...or democrats. Frankly I don't see much difference in the 2 major parties at all. However the biggest issue to my mind is that people expect too much from the Government. The more power the govt is given (through money and dependency) the less freedom people have. Yes, the govt can help Paul...but only by stealing from Peter. Think about that the next time you get something "free" from the Government.
@kev3d And yes I know: not a Republican, but I can't trust them. Personally they've helped me out. Also whenever the Federal Government gets involved it seems to work- like when Clinton was in. I feel like we've gone so far right in this country for long it's crazy. When Reagan beat Carter this country changed. Other countries use the government to their advantage not against them. Those countries seem to have more productive meaningful jobs and lives.
@HoGraz You have to understand, Clinton operated under pressure from a Republican congress. But there were many problems that came into existence during that time, namely cheap money, which seemed like a boom, partly because of the rise of the internet (which led to the tech bust) and cheap credit, which (continued under Bush) guaranteed home loans for people with bad credit; result; The sub-prime mortgage bubble.
@kev3d Glad to hear someone explain this accurately. Well Clinton was a Neo-Liberal just like the Bushes and Reagan. He seemed to do a lot of stuff like Republicans. I understand after NAFTA the Republicans took Congress. As far as I understand the Canada US Free Trade Agreement didn't have that effect cause Bush Sr. did it. I do remember hearing about that Tech boom influencing it. Good point.
@HoGraz Reagan did differ when it came to monetary policy, which essentially was a strong-dollar, relatively high interest rate policy, which stemmed (but did not eliminate) inflation. In doing so, there was a market correction, what we call a recession, which economists knew would happen, but it is very important to find the "true bottom" if you are going to have real growth. As for NAFTA, it isn't free trade at all, its hundreds of pages of regulations and quotas. REAL free trade is better.
@kev3d Interesting. Well he used a keysian tactic as far as I understand by raising interest rates to meet inflation. Then the recession hit which you are right was inevitable. That's interesting about NAFTA.
@HoGraz As for other nations and their governments; Ive lived in 4 countries; USA, France, Singapore and Australia. All have their advantages and disadvantages but work is basically the same, that is to say, it is what you make of it. On the other hand, things are far more expensive in Australia, and VERY expensive in France. Yet in Paris, the subways smell like piss, there is litter all over the streets and homeless are common and very aggressive. Sad, because I love Paris otherwise.
@kev3d Well it seems like in France they don't have as much conspicuous consumption like we do. They seem to have better jobs too. Over in Germany they have a mandated 1/4 of the Parliment as Union represented
@HoGraz Culturally, France is not the US. A person may very well be a waiter or cashier for 30 years. Hourly wages are theoretically higher, but so are taxes, work weeks are (by law) shorter and things are much more expensive. So what about the person who wants to earn more by working longer hours? Such personal ambition is extremely difficult and in some cases, illegal. As for consumption, do you really want the govt telling you how much you can buy? Is that freedom?
@HoGraz Culturally, France is not the US. A person may very well be a waiter or cashier for 30 years. Hourly wages are theoretically higher, but so are taxes, work weeks are (by law) shorter and things are much more expensive. So what about the person who wants to earn more by working longer hours? Such personal ambition is extremely difficult and in some cases, illegal. As for consumption, do you really want the govt telling you how much you can buy? Is that freedom?
@HoGraz Singapore is interesting because economically it is extremely free and things are fairly cheap (even though everything must be imported and things are cheaper still in Malaysia and Indonesia) but socially, they are not free and things like porn are banned. So that is not good either. Australia is most like the US but with higher taxes and a few more socialist programs, but many of the same problems.
@HoGraz But whatever the case, in almost every instance, whatever is good about a country is not the government, but what the people and businesses provide. After all, Scandinavia serves the world with IKEA, Nokia and Volvo. France provides great wine and cheese. Australia with minerals and so on. Even with socialized medicine, those governments don't actually make the drugs or machines, good old businesses do that, though at taxpayer expense.
@HoGraz Allow me to clarify; to get a new drug approved by the FDA, it can take upwards of a billion dollars and 10 years. Most drugs, for whatever reason, are not approved, so to cover their losses, drug companies must charge more for their existing drugs. All the while, generics are blocked by trade barriers, which also keep the market artificially expensive. Further, doctors are required to attend expensive schooling even if they want to specialize, driving the costs up.
@HoGraz Now the natural instinct is "No! Doctors must be highly trained!" But think about it, Nurses, not doctors provide MOST care, they know what they are doing and they can do it for much less money, they do not need expensive doctors overseeing them. Some procedures, of course, require a specialist, like brain or heart surgery...that is what insurance is for, but insurance is abused by using it to pay for minor things, which artificially drives up costs.
@HoGraz Is it not curious that all other forms of technology over the last 100 years has gotten better and cheaper, but medical costs have gone up? Why do costs increase when government spends more and more on Medicare and Medicaid? Because there is no "medicaid" for electronics, no government interference, market forces drive the costs down, and the quality up. Government intrusion on healthcare has the exact opposite effect.
@kev3d one more point; where socialized medicine works "best", in places like Sweden and Japan, it is important to note that those countries are almost entirely racially and culturally homogeneous; in other words; Predictable percentages for diseases, similar diets, similar risk factors, similar solutions. A one-size-fits-most approach can sort of work. But the US has large Black, Hispanic, Native and Asian populations and a wide variance in lifestyles. The needs are too varied.
@kev3d Well preventive care is what we lack. I've seen my fair share of idiotic doctors. I personally can't understand the people who are against the law making it illegal to drop you from your insurace for" preexisting conditions." I understand you have to stay competitive but sometimes business has a way of knocking off competition. Anyway, I personally think we should form non-profits. That way we can stay out of people's pockets like yours then of course have better care.
@HoGraz Of course there are idiotic doctors, there are also idiotic patients. Many people smoke too much, drink too much, eat too much, exercise too little, do not use sunblock, drive too carelessly and play too rough. Do you really want a government agency that tells you exactly how you should live your life in order to bring the medical costs down? Do you really want to pay for those people who live unwisely?
@HoGraz Non profit, non governmental agencies are excellent solutions for many problems because they are paid for by voluntary means. I am glad we agree. But, when it comes to insurance companies and preexisting conditions, think about it; would you be able to buy home owners insurance when your house is already on fire? Or car insurance after you have already wrecked your car? Non profits, charities, fund raisers and volunteerism are far better solutions in those cases.
@HoGraz Now even if there was complete deregulation and everyone could debate, there would still be a logistical problem because there are many parties but few hours in the day. But, that's why there are news papers, websites, book and radio stations which air the minority opinions. I'm not sure what you mean by "news media having corporate shareholders" anyone can be a shareholder...how is that a problem?
@HoGraz Education is discussed with Democrats? Then why do they largely oppose a voucher system that allows the parents and not the state to choose where the child will attend? I was not a big fan of Bob Dole, but he had the courage to say that the federal department of education should be abolished (it's unconstitutional, inefficient and is better left to the states) And so what about the military? Its bloated and filled with waste like all other organizations, what's your point?
@kev3d The voucher system is a great idea, but it's probably another way to have everyone pay for the upper class's private school. There's the chance that schools would become more inequal. If you're learning disabled that doesn't matter cause YOU DON'T LOOK DISABLED to most dodos that float around here anyway. At least the pell grant gets raised and Voc Rehab gets funded under Democrats. The Republicans need to pay off the breeders anyway. I've met more Republicans that vote FOR military.
@HoGraz That makes no sense whatsoever, if there is a private school that the parents feel is best for their child, whatever the child's needs are, then that voucher can be spent there. Its a matter of choice. The government doesn't mandate what entertainment people watch, yet look at the variety of entertainment the free market provides. Apply those same market forces to education. And the military vis a vis republicans...again, what is your point? I'm not a republican.
@kev3d I don't know how kids are going to get to school for one thing. I think the voucher system is a good idea. I agree. I'm not sure though what I think. I'll give you that. Voucher system is BETTER than the current system. The Free market has allowed for a totally shitty corporate consolidation of media, "custom tailored" Time magazines that come to you and manufacturing wants that aren't there. Look at how unregulated car companies have produced gas inefficient cars for so long.
@HoGraz Did you just say "corporate consolidation of media"? What? The FCC limits the free to air broadcasts, but you still have ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CNN, CNBC, Headline News, RT, BBC America and increasingly, Abu Dhabi and Al Jazzira. Then you have all magazines, left, right and center, and ALL the websites and blogs from the Huffington Post to Brietbart. These all compete with each other. Cars, by the way, are one of the most regulated items on the market and have been for decades.
@kev3d Well let me ask you this. Why would it be possible for a car to be manufactured with a 4 cylinder engine that gets 75 mpg off the line and not be available to the public?
@HoGraz I'm not an engineer, but I know a thing or two about economics. American car makers are heavily regulated and unionized. Tariffs are placed on imports to make them more expensive, so there is less money to put into making better cars. In turn, the car companies must make the cars that make the most profit and it so happens many people like SUVs for whatever reason. And once again, anyone is free to build whatever car they wish, surely the greens of the US have enough money to start.
@kev3d That's cause the Oil Companies want to be close to those car companies. Sure we have more CHOICE apparently but there's draw backs. The Antiquarian Book market has vaporized but Amazon and resellers like McKay's have been able to make a market thrive while Chain Retail stores have been doing well still. Whatever. I've seen you around here a few times. You're smart, but that statement about Citizens United scares the shit out of me.
@HoGraz Im still unclear, what books do you feel are no longer available? And of course, you are always free to start your own publishing company and publish whatever books you wish, you can even give them away for free if it suits you. You seem to believe that you have the right to whatever you want, whenever you want it without cost, be they rare books or magic cars that run on good intentions. But you see, just because you think it is a good idea does not mean I should pay for it.
@kev3d Ok now you've gone off the deep end. Education is a right and not a priveledge. I am "Free" to do this or that which is a big load of inflated crap. How can I do all that if the education I receieved fails me. "Oh you're looking for another handout." Yea that's bullshit. Schools suck for a reason, bud.I had to wait 'til the state had enough money to declare me disabled.Sorry I'm encroaching on your freedom by being alive. That's communist of me to want anythign outside of economic freedom
@HoGraz That is not a right. Rights are something that exist independent of imposing costs on other people. Life, liberty, private property, speech...that sort of thing. Why did you have to "wait" for the state to declare you disabled? How are you the state's responsibility? Moreover, under vouchers, you could choose a school that was right for your needs. Again, look at the free market, it provides pineapples in New York in winter, so why not let those same forces work for education?
@kev3d See the idea is that you can just build cars like the rest of them. Education doesnt' matter anyway cause we don't want a group of education voters.
@HoGraz Yes, you can. And people do it. Most of course buy normal cars and modify them, there are plug-in kits for Hybrids for example so they get even better mileage and some even convert their gas tanks to run on Bio Diesel. The free market is not a genie in a lamp that grants wishes; businesses will rise and fall, bad ideas may become popular for a time, products will break, people will argue and accidents will happen; BUT the consumer is free to choose and the producer is free to produce.
@kev3d and they bitch about the 3% of taxes used for Welfare. I'm not sure about the voucher system. I haven't done thorough enough research on it. I do know that dumbasses like John Stossel like it who also like the idea of privatized highways which I TOTALLY disagree with.
@HoGraz Stossel challenges the status quo, which is much better than what the Dems of Repubs have done. And why shouldn't highways be privatized? Private toll roads run better, are fixed sooner and best of all, if you don't use it, you don't pay for it. The best roads in Florida are on Disney's property, not the states. Where ever possible, costs should be attached to the user, not a third party who has no say in the matter.
Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman both did audience Q&A's, and both were dealing with people who didn't know or understand a tenth of what they did...but Ayn Rand would get impatient and angry with them, while Friedman would simply happily dismantle every argument they tried to use...and make everyone laugh while doing it. It's good to remember how important a friendly smile is when educating people.
@EGarrett01 Words of wisdom, Garrett. You're not demanding that every scholar or teacher should be Conan O'Brien, but demanding patience and calmness, and more importantly, positivity. Especially in education. I sometimes think that my brain is divided in two parts; rationality and emotionality. I believe two should not cross the boarder of each side's territory: It would be unnecessary to be emotional at a business conference or to analyze love as just a hormone effect.
Here's the problem with this: Milton Friedman's goals and contributions, outside of his micro theory which he dropped early on to become a macro manipulator, were things like income tax withholding and school vouchers. These are both programs to make government MORE EFFICIENT; in its tax collection and keeping public schools alive. While he says some fantastic things, few have done as much as Friedman to help the State grow. Sad, but true.
He was not only brilliant, insightful and eloquent....he was also very brave, and did not shy from defending the ideas of freedom in front of hostile audiences (even telling a bunch of doctors at the Mayo clinic that medical licensure has done more harm than good)...so, I agree with TimeWarp66: We need another Friedman - Bad!
Unfortunately government is extremely efficient at collecting taxes.
mortalisk 4 months ago
@mortalisk yeah it depends. They'll only be efficient in things that are within it's own self interest. (military, .etc) it's much easier t spot a bad general than it is to spot a bad person in charge of a certain governmental program (which you probably haven't heard of)
tehatemachine 1 month ago
This is more "Uncle Remus" slave-mentality and pragmatism.
So now we have to OUT-SMART the government which to which we're supposed to CONSENT, and which is is supposed to serve US?
He's really missing the point. The Jews haven't learned a thing from the holocaust, other than to use it to outsmart the US into being their puppet.
SovereignStatesman 5 months ago
ya thank god for enron.airlines that kept the faa fee,t mobil,exon valdez oil spill,bp oil spill.corporations are awsome.customer service is better then govt.corporations can offer service from india.the usa has to stay in the usa.perhaps dmv can be outsourced to exotic india.imagine goint to india for dmv. lol.
stealthgerm 6 months ago
capitalism does not work,socialism does not work....YOU WORK!!!
nphanlon1973 6 months ago 4
When the gov't is so overgrown, waste is an important avenue towards freedom.
KEMPROTH 7 months ago
Neoclassical Chicago School >> Austrian school > Keynesian school.
LogicalFlawDetector 8 months ago
One reason why Democratic Socialism hasn't had a bigger impact in America. That Democratic Socialists would like to see, is because of the amount of money that government wastes.
FRSFreeStatePlus 11 months ago 5
@FRSFreeStatePlus very true. There is a site on the internet that lists each represenative for the houses and lists how much the person voted in for increase spending vs increase revenue. Democrats, last I looked, currently have 0 people who voted for more increase than spending. Republicans are as well, but there was a few that increased revenue more than spending. But about 90% increase more spending.
bluefootedpig 7 months ago
When the legislature sets the rules for buying and selling, the first things to be bought and sold are the legislatures.
AroundSun 1 year ago
praising waste because it somehow "preserves freedom"???? WHAT THE FUCK? why not operate efficiently WHILE PRESERVING OUR FREEDOMS!
stupid shit.
nolaOE800 1 year ago 2
@nolaOE800 Thank you!!!! Ive watched many video's of Friedman on youtube & for the most part he is praised by the viewers. I dont understand why. This isnt even the dumbest statement he's made. This world or atleast the people in it are insane.
m0kn33marc 1 year ago
@nolaOE800 He's hinting people will always have an incentive to work towards freedom because the alternative is wastage with undoubtedly clear evidence around. With that there is only one direction for rational people to work towards: Freedom (as opposed to government control).
crossxlui 1 year ago
@crossxlui
doesn't that philosophy simply guarantee a never-ending rat-race?
I certainly see what he's saying (now that you explained it) but I just can't agree. you obviously know more about Friedman's philosophy than I do, and I can respect that, and I can admit when I'm under-informed on a given topic. but I simply can't agree with a never-ending struggle, as opposed to the idea of a temporary struggle aimed at a permanent solution.
nolaOE800 1 year ago
@nolaOE800 It will be a struggle if you look at it at first but in the end of the day, it's people that makes the government. The government is an inanimate entity made up of people and it's the people that dictates the form and structure of the government. By default, the people should always win even if the government sector is larger as it is their actions that hurts everyone in the end of the day .
crossxlui 1 year ago
@nolaOE800 However, the government will always resort to trickery (propaganda, lies and false assurance) to make you believe that they are efficient which would prolong the process of self-realization. Some examples of those are North Korea. People there are already facing massive hunger and starvation so there is already a tendency to abolish the administration there.
crossxlui 1 year ago
@nolaOE800 Your temporary struggle is when they revolutionise to change the system to a permanent solution (a system that doesn't oppress and encourage liberty) such as the USA constitution act.
crossxlui 1 year ago
@nolaOE800 It's better than outsourcing all the jobs cause that's 'free' market. We used to follow the growth model and kesynian economics way back when we didn't have these bozos killing education and letting corporations controls our lives. Shit our education system is so in the toilet we'll never compete with India and our manufacturing base with China.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Keynesian eco is GARBAGE
AroundSun 1 year ago
@AroundSun I'm sure there's truth to that but even Reagan used it to get out of the recession in 81 or 82.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz You can't get out of a recession by printing money and with inefficient spending. It looks like it works for a little while until the counterfeit money catches up with everyone and we suffer inflation. These economic crisis's are the result of Keynesian economics, inflation-ism, and government interventionism. All priming the pump does is prolong the inevitable recession/depression. We need to change monetary policy and get the government out of our economy ASAP!!
AroundSun 1 year ago
@AroundSun Godo points. I think we're almost suffering from deflation currently. Seems like maybe what you're getting at is the recessions are set up so the banks can get more entrenched. To me though I think the ones who are keynesian tend to want more central planning to balance and benefit private enterprise.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Whether it is planned or not is irrelevant I think. Most of the problems we face are due to good intentions. Do gooders in washington making our decisions with out money. Ya there is corruption and conflicts of interest, but every time the gov screws up our economy it isn't on purpose. The road to hell was paved with good intentions. It is not the abusive power, but the power to abuse. Take the power away, and it limits incentive to throw money at the government.
AroundSun 1 year ago
@HoGraz I'm very curious how corporations "control" our lives. After all, corporations can only make money by providing goods or services that people want...unless the Government helps them with corrupt policies. Corporations also employ people voluntarily, while the government takes money away from others, by force, to spend as they see fit regardless on how the taxpayers feel. Lastly, education is almost entirely socialist and unionized...no wonder it is terrible.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d Lastly? I suppose these were rhetorical questions. That's the only thing you had a point on. Look up Citizens United vs. Federal Court System. That should explain a few things. Also when presidential debates go on they are dictated by the news media who has corporate shareholders. That's why the Constitutional Party or the Green Party never gets to debate.Education at least is discussed with Democrats. The military is part of the government and they employ more people than any corporation
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz I assume you mean Citizens United V Federal Election Commission, which was a good decision because it removes barriers to free speech. After all, if a union, church, individual or group can make a political speech or film, so can a corporation. Of course televised debates have been largely controlled by the non-profit Commission on Presidential Debates since 1987, which is run by the Democrat and Republican parties! They are the ones that stipulate the 15% poll rule.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d No it is not a good idea. You're going to eat those words. See everytime you vote Republican, you're voting to end voting. The corporate interest is completely mindless and only seeks to keep itself alive. See I like to participate in my government. Hiding behind the guise of pretending to be constitutional is what most people do. The constitution is beyond important, but you can still have major problems with a Constitution. I prefer to not have rigged elections in my FREE country.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Well I don't vote republican for one thing, secondly, McCain-Feingold was unconstitutional. Thirdly, of course corporate interest seeks its own ends....so does EVERYTHING ELSE. Unions are for-profit, for their own expansion and power....why can they produce political statements and a company cannot? Whats the difference? You cannot pick and choose which speech you like, you have to allow all of it.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d how would I know about freedom though. I'm sure the Coche brothers want me to believe I have communist sympathies cause I'm not into their idea of economics which route themselves to the "major players."
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz How would you know about freedom? By educating yourself. Not state education, but actually listening and trying to understand different ideas. By examining not only benefits, but also costs and (perhaps most importantly) unintended consequences. The information is out there, and today it is easier to get than ever.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d I disagree with that. Most people are mind-controlled as is. The corporate power is a strong one. They can outspend anyone. What they wanted to do is basically what Fallwell did with the "Clinton Chronicles." Just more bullying and fear mongering. When they control everything completely you will see private police beating the shit out of workers again and they'll get on the tv and say we need to protect the free market from these socialist anarchists. They're terrified of the Green party
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Well most people voted for Obama, and you seem to favor democrats, but by your reasoning most people who voted for him were "mind controlled". By the way, Jerry Falwell did not make the Chronicles, he merely sold them, but who cares? That's freedom of speech. If leftists want to show Bush with a Hitler Mustache or rights show Obama as chairman Mao, then so be it...it may be inaccurate and in poor taste but tough shit.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d I actually didn't vote for Obama, but yes mind-controlled to an extent. We do have other options besides Universal Healthcare. You're right about the Bush Hitler freedom of speech thing but that doesn't have anything to do with free market.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Hate speech, or more correctly, silly, misdirected, juvenile speech, however ignorant, is still protected and yes, it is part of the free market because the free market also deals with the exchange of ideas. If I want to "sell" my ideas (as a paid writer) then I am free to do so, or I can give my ideas away for free. If my ideas are unpopular, they might not be very profitable, but they will still be protected. It is up to the listener or reader to decide, not the government.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d "make me pay for it" is Juvenile speech. You can let the grown ups do the politcking. You can go on about free markets all you want and pretend if you talk from an authoritarian mindset to prove your point. There's plenty of people who run on a religious view of free markets that smuggle grants into their administration to pay off their debts.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz I didn't say "make you pay", but if you are receiving it, then yes, whenever possible, you SHOULD pay. Only the government can "Make" someone pay for something and more often than not, they force people to buy things and services for OTHER people, special interests, unions and companies. In a free market, people and companies rise and fall on their own merits, not by theft of public funds.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d Yea you did. You said "make me pay for your ___________." That is typical right wing bullying. This shit is going to end. I hope you heard about democrat that got shot the other day. Fox News said she died. I had to watch CNN to get the real news. She's still alive. Hmm. Oh and I live where a few years ago a man shot up a Unitarian Church. He was big into Hannity as stated in his suicide note. All he talked about was hating liberals etc. Beck is on vacation with the Coche Bros.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Well then I misspoke. In any case, the beneficiary should bear the costs. And again, I am not "right wing". I am for the legalization of drugs, gay marriage, the separation of church and state, reduction of military spending and against all subsidies for corporations.
And why do you bring up the attempted murder of a Congresswoman? It has nothing to do with economics, and if you read anything about the assassin, it is clear he is a nutcase.
kev3d 1 year ago
@HoGraz The unibomber was against technology, Lee Harvey Oswald was a marxist, Sirhan Sirhan was a Palestinian extremist.....whats the point? Assassins have particular ideas in their head...that does not mean that whomever they listened to was to blame. Sean Hannity or Glenn Beck or Keith Olbermann or Wolf Blitzer or whoever...none of them have ever advocated violence against those who disagree politically. Further, Jared Loughner's writings show he was totally out of his mind.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d trying to devize their next politcal strategy. See what happens in this country is most people go by strengths and weaknesses. It's just come to who can scream the loudest. Also this money guilt tripping is a popular one. It's a great way to overstep issues. When the economy was going insane under Bush everyone just looked away. Now they're back to blaming Dems for their mistakes. You're one of the few who has something to go on but you tried to sidestep that others have problems that
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Yes, the economy was "insane" under Bush, mainly from cheap monetary policy, bailouts and massive government spending...so why then did the Democrats increase all of those things?
What issue have I "side stepped"?
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d NEVER addressed. In fact they are cast out as leaches. Try telling that to the people the free market has helped in other countries so they HAVE to work for shit in factories. It really just shows how disconnected right wingers are from humanity. It all just always comes back to money. That's such a non political ideology.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz You are changing the subject to outsourcing, but fine. Let me ask, if those factories were not in those poor countries, what would those employees be doing otherwise to make ends meet? The fact is, they would not work there if they were not getting some sort of benefit. And lets say the factory stays in the US with its expensive employees, what happens to the price of the goods made? Would they go up or down? If they go up, who does that affect the most?
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d Because they'd make them accountable. This is strong-arm politics. The conservatives in this country have no idea how it works. When the Patriot Act gets backed by the people and all that mess you know they have no fundamentals anymore.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz You understand that Obama renewed the Patriot act, yes? And that was with a Democratic congress.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d Yea. AIG and Goldman Sachs funded McCain too, but everyone that's Republican thinks Boener's GONNA REALLY SHOW EM! "This is the people's gavel!" Shit they've had the ball for YEARS.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz We shall see, hopefully they will make good on their promises and start cutting spending and repeal "Obamacare", but I'm skeptical.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d "Obamacare" is the definition of Right Wing juvenile speech. Other high advanced countries have Universal Healthcare and people seem to enjoy it. Our system is totally pathetic unless you can afford it and not get kicked off.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Obamacare is a lot shorter than "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act" the same way that "Star Wars" is much shorter than "Strategic Defense Initiative". Calm down, its just a literary shortcut. Anyway, "Universal" care aint so universal when it comes down to long waits, high taxes and, in Australia where I currently live, Aborigines live much shorter life spans. Many Canadians seek care in the US. Why do you think care is so expensive in the US? It is because of regulation.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d How about "the Universal Healthcare bill"? I'm sure you were trying to sound intellegent by using the "correct" term. I guess you're right. The left is the elite after all. After we get our education straightened out because we were unfortunate enough not to be born into good christian homes and working our way up the corporate ladder for a moment at McDonald's we can go about taking advantage of our freedoms to start our own publishing companies that most dumbasses won't read from.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Because it is not "Universal Healthcare", it is among other things, a mandate that the uninsured purchase insurance. But you imply that somehow, if someone is born in less than privileged circumstances, that they have no upward mobility. But of course, one does (except where the government restricts it), I was born in a rural area, publicly educated, worked on farms and later at Target, but over time, I have lived in 4 nations and visited about 20 more. If I can do it, anyone can.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d Good for you. One size doesn't fit all. We do have a lot of freedom I will say, but still one size doesn't fit all. Just like not every kid who is in Special Ed shouldn't be in TAG. Seen it.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Correct, one size fits all does not work with education, why should we have it with health or any other service? When consumers have the right to choose without government interference, choice is multiplied, quality goes up and prices come down. It is simple market forces at work. It will never be perfect because people are people and make mistakes, there will be fraud and theft but over all, it will vastly improve.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d cause they're too busy on their iphones, watching American Idol, and reading what ITT wants to tell you in TIME magazine.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz If that is their choice, then so be it. It is not for me or anyone else to choose how others live their lives so long as they do not violate the rights of others.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d Well, look around. A lot of cooky right wingers think it's something to shoot people about. That shooting here happened while Bush was in his second term. That just goes to show you the level of insanity we have not to mention lack of discussion.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Leftwingers can be (and have been) assassins and terrorists too. Do not make the mistake of blaming others for the actions of one. That said, Jared Loughner's youtube profile lists the Communist Manifesto under his books. Does that mean he was a marxist? Maybe. Maybe not. But I have known many Marxists and although I vehemently disagree with their philosophy, none of those I know have killed anyone. Put the blame on the assassin, not others.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d It's expensive because we have about four healthcare providers who make sure to lobby against Universal Healthcare. These providers started out as nonprofits, but I assume they thought they could better provide for everyone if they went for profit.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Well first of all that isn't true, but lets just assume that it is, what then is the solution? Free trade would force the prices to come down. Remember that there are only a handful of TV makers, but as stated...they get better and cheaper each year. Same with computers. And MP3 players, digital cameras, smart phones and so on. Because trade in those things is less restricted, market forces make them better and more widely available.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d Well maybe that's why we don't manufacture TV's here.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Correct, it is unprofitable to make TVs in the US. Partly because environmental regulations, partly because of unions, partly because the Japanese and Koreans simply do it better. And so what? Because you spend less on a TV it means you have more money to spend elsewhere in the country. The market evolves and no job lasts forever. The government should not "support" US tv makers any more than it should support US candle makers against foreign lightbulbs.
kev3d 1 year ago
@HoGraz Now, to be more specific, it should be noted that while TV's are not assembled in the US, many of the components are. In real terms, there is no such thing as a "Japanese Car" or a "Korean TV", these are just loose terms referring to where the company is headquartered. For instance, Toyota assembles cars in the US and GM builds cars in Canada. Ford builds cars in Australia and so on. Apple builds ipods in China...etc.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d Of course anyone can own stock in Apple, or Sony, or Microsoft, or Toyota or Walmart or whatever publicly listed company. That way one can get a slice of the profits either through dividends or by selling the stock at a higher price. But what about the poor factory worker who lost his job? Again, no job is sacred and people have to evolve. Did cars put horseshoe makers out of work? Did the phone but telegraph operators out of work? Progress is hard but it is progress.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d If we really wanted to keep all jobs in America, then every road would be made by hand-chiseled gravel. Every building foundation would be dug with spoons. Every field would be plowed with hand spades. Every elevator would have an operator. And every circuit board would be soldered by hand. In a modern society we trade certain jobs for efficiency. But, because those new, efficient alternatives need creators and administrators, on the whole there are more jobs, not less.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d Oh on a side note I was going to say in Europe in places where they privatized the rail system the only people who can afford to ride them are the wealthy. That's why hitch hiking is so big. Also in Spain most people just buy cars and walk away from the lease. Hmm. Now they're in debt.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz There are many rail lines in europe, some private, some state owned, some mixed, so I cannot comment on specifics. if a private rail line charges too much, it will lose its customers and it will close; if it charges too little, it will not cover it's expenses and will close. Trains must compete with planes, buses, boats and cars too. If only the wealthy can afford it, then let them blow their money on expensive tickets, but it doesn't sound like a good business model.
kev3d 1 year ago
@HoGraz But let us look at Amtrak, something I know a bit about. Amtrak has lost money every year it has existed...EVERY YEAR. Whats worse is that after losing billions it GETS MORE MONEY. Does that make sense? In one line, Amtrak lost over $300 per passenger...it would have been cheaper for the taxpayers to buy the passengers a plane ticket instead. What can be a more clear example of government mismanagement? And trains are not exactly new, confusing technology either.
kev3d 1 year ago
@HoGraz Now for your Spain example. Ive never been to Spain (yet) but lets assume what you say is true. So what? If people purchase or lease cars they cannot afford, then they ought not be buying or leasing them in the first place. I have very little sympathy for those who conduct their lives with reckless abandon. They make the mistake, they should bear the consequences. Likewise if someone (or company) spends or invests wisely, they should profit.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d It is said that the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Trusting the federal government to run ANYTHING is dubious at best...just look at it's track record. It is SO far beyond the limits of the Constitution that it is criminal. But even when you look at those duties the government IS supposed to do, like the military and post office, the government does a terrible and increasingly expensive job.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d Well voting Republican seems to be insane from my vantage point.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Reagan and his democratic congress were bad on spending (though it was during the cold war) but what really went wrong in the 80s and early 90s? The Berlin Wall came down, the Soviet Union dissolved. Taxes were cut. The economy grew. The stagflation of Ford and Carter was ended. Computers started to become common in the home (as did many other electronics) and so on. The 80s were prosperous not because government did more, but because it did less overall.
kev3d 1 year ago
@HoGraz Now that does not mean one should vote for republicans...or democrats. Frankly I don't see much difference in the 2 major parties at all. However the biggest issue to my mind is that people expect too much from the Government. The more power the govt is given (through money and dependency) the less freedom people have. Yes, the govt can help Paul...but only by stealing from Peter. Think about that the next time you get something "free" from the Government.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d And yes I know: not a Republican, but I can't trust them. Personally they've helped me out. Also whenever the Federal Government gets involved it seems to work- like when Clinton was in. I feel like we've gone so far right in this country for long it's crazy. When Reagan beat Carter this country changed. Other countries use the government to their advantage not against them. Those countries seem to have more productive meaningful jobs and lives.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz You have to understand, Clinton operated under pressure from a Republican congress. But there were many problems that came into existence during that time, namely cheap money, which seemed like a boom, partly because of the rise of the internet (which led to the tech bust) and cheap credit, which (continued under Bush) guaranteed home loans for people with bad credit; result; The sub-prime mortgage bubble.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d Glad to hear someone explain this accurately. Well Clinton was a Neo-Liberal just like the Bushes and Reagan. He seemed to do a lot of stuff like Republicans. I understand after NAFTA the Republicans took Congress. As far as I understand the Canada US Free Trade Agreement didn't have that effect cause Bush Sr. did it. I do remember hearing about that Tech boom influencing it. Good point.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Reagan did differ when it came to monetary policy, which essentially was a strong-dollar, relatively high interest rate policy, which stemmed (but did not eliminate) inflation. In doing so, there was a market correction, what we call a recession, which economists knew would happen, but it is very important to find the "true bottom" if you are going to have real growth. As for NAFTA, it isn't free trade at all, its hundreds of pages of regulations and quotas. REAL free trade is better.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d Interesting. Well he used a keysian tactic as far as I understand by raising interest rates to meet inflation. Then the recession hit which you are right was inevitable. That's interesting about NAFTA.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz As for other nations and their governments; Ive lived in 4 countries; USA, France, Singapore and Australia. All have their advantages and disadvantages but work is basically the same, that is to say, it is what you make of it. On the other hand, things are far more expensive in Australia, and VERY expensive in France. Yet in Paris, the subways smell like piss, there is litter all over the streets and homeless are common and very aggressive. Sad, because I love Paris otherwise.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d Well it seems like in France they don't have as much conspicuous consumption like we do. They seem to have better jobs too. Over in Germany they have a mandated 1/4 of the Parliment as Union represented
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Culturally, France is not the US. A person may very well be a waiter or cashier for 30 years. Hourly wages are theoretically higher, but so are taxes, work weeks are (by law) shorter and things are much more expensive. So what about the person who wants to earn more by working longer hours? Such personal ambition is extremely difficult and in some cases, illegal. As for consumption, do you really want the govt telling you how much you can buy? Is that freedom?
kev3d 1 year ago
@HoGraz Culturally, France is not the US. A person may very well be a waiter or cashier for 30 years. Hourly wages are theoretically higher, but so are taxes, work weeks are (by law) shorter and things are much more expensive. So what about the person who wants to earn more by working longer hours? Such personal ambition is extremely difficult and in some cases, illegal. As for consumption, do you really want the govt telling you how much you can buy? Is that freedom?
kev3d 1 year ago
@HoGraz Singapore is interesting because economically it is extremely free and things are fairly cheap (even though everything must be imported and things are cheaper still in Malaysia and Indonesia) but socially, they are not free and things like porn are banned. So that is not good either. Australia is most like the US but with higher taxes and a few more socialist programs, but many of the same problems.
kev3d 1 year ago
@HoGraz But whatever the case, in almost every instance, whatever is good about a country is not the government, but what the people and businesses provide. After all, Scandinavia serves the world with IKEA, Nokia and Volvo. France provides great wine and cheese. Australia with minerals and so on. Even with socialized medicine, those governments don't actually make the drugs or machines, good old businesses do that, though at taxpayer expense.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d Well, on that I can agree with you.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Allow me to clarify; to get a new drug approved by the FDA, it can take upwards of a billion dollars and 10 years. Most drugs, for whatever reason, are not approved, so to cover their losses, drug companies must charge more for their existing drugs. All the while, generics are blocked by trade barriers, which also keep the market artificially expensive. Further, doctors are required to attend expensive schooling even if they want to specialize, driving the costs up.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d Good point.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Now the natural instinct is "No! Doctors must be highly trained!" But think about it, Nurses, not doctors provide MOST care, they know what they are doing and they can do it for much less money, they do not need expensive doctors overseeing them. Some procedures, of course, require a specialist, like brain or heart surgery...that is what insurance is for, but insurance is abused by using it to pay for minor things, which artificially drives up costs.
kev3d 1 year ago
@HoGraz Is it not curious that all other forms of technology over the last 100 years has gotten better and cheaper, but medical costs have gone up? Why do costs increase when government spends more and more on Medicare and Medicaid? Because there is no "medicaid" for electronics, no government interference, market forces drive the costs down, and the quality up. Government intrusion on healthcare has the exact opposite effect.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d one more point; where socialized medicine works "best", in places like Sweden and Japan, it is important to note that those countries are almost entirely racially and culturally homogeneous; in other words; Predictable percentages for diseases, similar diets, similar risk factors, similar solutions. A one-size-fits-most approach can sort of work. But the US has large Black, Hispanic, Native and Asian populations and a wide variance in lifestyles. The needs are too varied.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d Well preventive care is what we lack. I've seen my fair share of idiotic doctors. I personally can't understand the people who are against the law making it illegal to drop you from your insurace for" preexisting conditions." I understand you have to stay competitive but sometimes business has a way of knocking off competition. Anyway, I personally think we should form non-profits. That way we can stay out of people's pockets like yours then of course have better care.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Of course there are idiotic doctors, there are also idiotic patients. Many people smoke too much, drink too much, eat too much, exercise too little, do not use sunblock, drive too carelessly and play too rough. Do you really want a government agency that tells you exactly how you should live your life in order to bring the medical costs down? Do you really want to pay for those people who live unwisely?
kev3d 1 year ago
@HoGraz Non profit, non governmental agencies are excellent solutions for many problems because they are paid for by voluntary means. I am glad we agree. But, when it comes to insurance companies and preexisting conditions, think about it; would you be able to buy home owners insurance when your house is already on fire? Or car insurance after you have already wrecked your car? Non profits, charities, fund raisers and volunteerism are far better solutions in those cases.
kev3d 1 year ago
@HoGraz Now even if there was complete deregulation and everyone could debate, there would still be a logistical problem because there are many parties but few hours in the day. But, that's why there are news papers, websites, book and radio stations which air the minority opinions. I'm not sure what you mean by "news media having corporate shareholders" anyone can be a shareholder...how is that a problem?
kev3d 1 year ago
@HoGraz Education is discussed with Democrats? Then why do they largely oppose a voucher system that allows the parents and not the state to choose where the child will attend? I was not a big fan of Bob Dole, but he had the courage to say that the federal department of education should be abolished (it's unconstitutional, inefficient and is better left to the states) And so what about the military? Its bloated and filled with waste like all other organizations, what's your point?
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d The voucher system is a great idea, but it's probably another way to have everyone pay for the upper class's private school. There's the chance that schools would become more inequal. If you're learning disabled that doesn't matter cause YOU DON'T LOOK DISABLED to most dodos that float around here anyway. At least the pell grant gets raised and Voc Rehab gets funded under Democrats. The Republicans need to pay off the breeders anyway. I've met more Republicans that vote FOR military.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz That makes no sense whatsoever, if there is a private school that the parents feel is best for their child, whatever the child's needs are, then that voucher can be spent there. Its a matter of choice. The government doesn't mandate what entertainment people watch, yet look at the variety of entertainment the free market provides. Apply those same market forces to education. And the military vis a vis republicans...again, what is your point? I'm not a republican.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d I don't know how kids are going to get to school for one thing. I think the voucher system is a good idea. I agree. I'm not sure though what I think. I'll give you that. Voucher system is BETTER than the current system. The Free market has allowed for a totally shitty corporate consolidation of media, "custom tailored" Time magazines that come to you and manufacturing wants that aren't there. Look at how unregulated car companies have produced gas inefficient cars for so long.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Did you just say "corporate consolidation of media"? What? The FCC limits the free to air broadcasts, but you still have ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CNN, CNBC, Headline News, RT, BBC America and increasingly, Abu Dhabi and Al Jazzira. Then you have all magazines, left, right and center, and ALL the websites and blogs from the Huffington Post to Brietbart. These all compete with each other. Cars, by the way, are one of the most regulated items on the market and have been for decades.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d Well let me ask you this. Why would it be possible for a car to be manufactured with a 4 cylinder engine that gets 75 mpg off the line and not be available to the public?
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz I'm not an engineer, but I know a thing or two about economics. American car makers are heavily regulated and unionized. Tariffs are placed on imports to make them more expensive, so there is less money to put into making better cars. In turn, the car companies must make the cars that make the most profit and it so happens many people like SUVs for whatever reason. And once again, anyone is free to build whatever car they wish, surely the greens of the US have enough money to start.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d That's cause the Oil Companies want to be close to those car companies. Sure we have more CHOICE apparently but there's draw backs. The Antiquarian Book market has vaporized but Amazon and resellers like McKay's have been able to make a market thrive while Chain Retail stores have been doing well still. Whatever. I've seen you around here a few times. You're smart, but that statement about Citizens United scares the shit out of me.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Im still unclear, what books do you feel are no longer available? And of course, you are always free to start your own publishing company and publish whatever books you wish, you can even give them away for free if it suits you. You seem to believe that you have the right to whatever you want, whenever you want it without cost, be they rare books or magic cars that run on good intentions. But you see, just because you think it is a good idea does not mean I should pay for it.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d Ok now you've gone off the deep end. Education is a right and not a priveledge. I am "Free" to do this or that which is a big load of inflated crap. How can I do all that if the education I receieved fails me. "Oh you're looking for another handout." Yea that's bullshit. Schools suck for a reason, bud.I had to wait 'til the state had enough money to declare me disabled.Sorry I'm encroaching on your freedom by being alive. That's communist of me to want anythign outside of economic freedom
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz That is not a right. Rights are something that exist independent of imposing costs on other people. Life, liberty, private property, speech...that sort of thing. Why did you have to "wait" for the state to declare you disabled? How are you the state's responsibility? Moreover, under vouchers, you could choose a school that was right for your needs. Again, look at the free market, it provides pineapples in New York in winter, so why not let those same forces work for education?
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d See the idea is that you can just build cars like the rest of them. Education doesnt' matter anyway cause we don't want a group of education voters.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Yes, you can. And people do it. Most of course buy normal cars and modify them, there are plug-in kits for Hybrids for example so they get even better mileage and some even convert their gas tanks to run on Bio Diesel. The free market is not a genie in a lamp that grants wishes; businesses will rise and fall, bad ideas may become popular for a time, products will break, people will argue and accidents will happen; BUT the consumer is free to choose and the producer is free to produce.
kev3d 1 year ago
@kev3d and they bitch about the 3% of taxes used for Welfare. I'm not sure about the voucher system. I haven't done thorough enough research on it. I do know that dumbasses like John Stossel like it who also like the idea of privatized highways which I TOTALLY disagree with.
HoGraz 1 year ago
@HoGraz Stossel challenges the status quo, which is much better than what the Dems of Repubs have done. And why shouldn't highways be privatized? Private toll roads run better, are fixed sooner and best of all, if you don't use it, you don't pay for it. The best roads in Florida are on Disney's property, not the states. Where ever possible, costs should be attached to the user, not a third party who has no say in the matter.
kev3d 1 year ago
Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman both did audience Q&A's, and both were dealing with people who didn't know or understand a tenth of what they did...but Ayn Rand would get impatient and angry with them, while Friedman would simply happily dismantle every argument they tried to use...and make everyone laugh while doing it. It's good to remember how important a friendly smile is when educating people.
EGarrett01 1 year ago 3
@EGarrett01 Words of wisdom, Garrett. You're not demanding that every scholar or teacher should be Conan O'Brien, but demanding patience and calmness, and more importantly, positivity. Especially in education. I sometimes think that my brain is divided in two parts; rationality and emotionality. I believe two should not cross the boarder of each side's territory: It would be unnecessary to be emotional at a business conference or to analyze love as just a hormone effect.
rainzoro 1 year ago
Here's the problem with this: Milton Friedman's goals and contributions, outside of his micro theory which he dropped early on to become a macro manipulator, were things like income tax withholding and school vouchers. These are both programs to make government MORE EFFICIENT; in its tax collection and keeping public schools alive. While he says some fantastic things, few have done as much as Friedman to help the State grow. Sad, but true.
dankfr33music 1 year ago
we dont have schools and colleges like this. i wish we did.
amazing presentation and good questions.
kids now only care about celebrities and showbiz. the teachers union is also to blame as costs for education are increasing.
if we can end the teachers union we can have more control of education and costs.
hyylo 1 year ago
Ahh, this was back in the good old days when they only took 40%.
XCritonX 2 years ago
He was not only brilliant, insightful and eloquent....he was also very brave, and did not shy from defending the ideas of freedom in front of hostile audiences (even telling a bunch of doctors at the Mayo clinic that medical licensure has done more harm than good)...so, I agree with TimeWarp66: We need another Friedman - Bad!
zingarellius 2 years ago 11
Thank god for Bush's failures and Obama's disasters!
ntn1987 2 years ago
man's a fucking genius..
enotdetcelfer 2 years ago 14
There is some quote to the effect: "If government was efficient, we'd have tyranny."
picapauengracado 2 years ago 12
It's "if government was efficient we wouldn't have any freedom at all!"
TimeWarp66 2 years ago
brilliant!
ToastJohnson 2 years ago 37
The 21st century needs another Milton Friedman, Bad!
TimeWarp66 2 years ago 48