set it up nicely with a strawman, when have muslims ever said that our prophet never forgot, as far as i know he had a human memory, n thats the reason he had to take time to memorize the quran himself from the angel gabriel, especial in the last ten day of ramadan, when he would just sit in isolation with the angel reviewing the quran.
MindMasters:Only thoseWords ofAllah are preserved for which there is promise by Allah.He declares inQuran,"Verily We Ourselves have sent down this Exhortation, and most surely We will be its Guardian."15:9There was no such promise for earlier Scriptures because they had limited application in time and space.Quran has universal application and it is for the guidance of all people,for all times till the Doomsday.So Allah has His own plans to preserveQuran literally as well as spiritually.
We now have to deal with this logic: 1. The Quran, the Torah, the Psalms and the Gospel are all Allah's Word. 2. The current Torah, Psalms and Gospel are corrupted. 3. The final word of Allah, the Quran is preserved. 1st Conclusion: Some of Allah's Words are corrupted 2nd Conclusion: Some of Allah's Words are preserved.
MindMasters:Only thoseWords ofAllah are preserved for which there is promise by Allah.He declares in Quran,"Verily We Ourselves have sent down this Exhortation, and most surely We will be its Guardian."(15:9.There was no such promise for earlier Scriptures because they had limited application in time and space.Quran has universal application and it the Book for the guidance of all people,for all times till the Doomsday.So Allah has His own plans to preserveQuran literally as well as spiritually.
although the words of ALLAH that he is going to preserve Quran r enough for us but the above mentioned things also confirm to us that Quran is safe..and please...before answeringme..listen to the lecture from dr Gary Miler..and than u can find that y do u we have confirmation that Quran is preserved coz i cant type for u his whole lecture(more than an hour)..if u r interested than pm me and ill tell u about the exact lecture
@adeelalam084.. I am not Muslim nor I have any religion, I am a free thinker, I don't wanna be a slave of Allah like you are.
However, I accept your information on basis of a n email discussion ! interesting, then let me know and I will give you my email address, then you have time to refute all the points you think I am making .. fair ??
as far as i can understand u r probably an apostate.......and u have something to do with qadianis too..probably u r ataracted towards it or u otherwise...
so i think u know the point of view of muslims in many cases and i hope that u know the reasons for believing in Quran
adeelalam084, that is a new information 4 me that I am an apostate ! lol you start predicting things now ?
qadianis or you muslims, they are the same face of Islam, two side of coins and have same beliefs. any how I am focusing things around hadiths, say in clear words that these hadiths from Sahi Bukhari are false ! Don't twist the truth, even in Quran Allah said Muhammad forgot things, if this was the standard of his memory then what is ur prove of Quran authenticity ? give me Prove! no talk
once again..if u read the verse again...if u do it than what does it say..only those things which ALLAH wants u to forget...right???
now it doesnt mean that Mohammad(SAW) had each and everything in his mind from the childhood to death...no...not forgetting criteria implies to Quran
and even if that hadith is true than it simply means that ALLAH made him to get those verses back in his mind through somebody else..so where is the prblem?
By degrees shall we teach thee (Muhammad) to declare (the message), so thou shalt not forget, except as God wills ... (Sura 87:6-7,).
This verse is not saying that Muhammad will never forget any of the Qur'an. It is saying that he will only forget what God wills. Thus the verse seems to be an explanation and justification of Muhammad's forgetfulness. This interpretation is also the interpretation found in the Hadith.
However this lead to us conclude that Muhammad was not perfect in Memory ...
The evidence from the Qur'an and Hadith shows that Muhammad and his Companions had normal memories and did forget parts of the Qur'an. Muslim leaders should stop making exaggerated claims about Muhammad; he was an ordinary man. Muhammad said of himself: "I am only a human being and I forget just as you do" (Bukhari, Abu Dawud).
also listen to gary miller(an ex christian) who checked Quran on the standard of logic and found it to b 100% true..like the repitation of words...word Ask..comes 332 times in Quran and the word..Say(answer) comes the same number of time...the usage of word day(as a whole singular plural or whatever) comes 365 times..and i can give u a list of such things...and if Quranic verses would have been lost than u woudlnt ever find this sort of consistancy
these aspect were checked and brought forward by Dr Gary Miller who checked Quran on the hardest standard of logic and specially the repitation of words and he was amazed to find that it was 100% accurate.(continue)
^dude..its simple..if Quran says that pophet was given perfect memory and hadith says otherwise...than the hadith which was written 200 years after prophet(SAW) is wrong..thats it..very simple!!! we claim about Quran that its perfect but not hadith...hadith can never b perfect nd at the same level as Quran..
@adeelalam084.. dude are you ready to declare all the hadiths are wrong then ? if you can not trust these hadiths then why don't you officialy throw them dust bin ?
its just another trick from Muslims, when ever they face a problem, then either context jumps in or hadith becomes false .. come and grow up and focus on thesubject.
MindMaster:Why do u impose your view? Muslims hold the view that Quran is supreme. The ahadeeth against any clear injunction of Quran cannot be taken at its face value.
@muhammadkaghulam.. am I imposing my view son you? what are you talking about ?
read ur own words Mr. and see what kind of contradictory statements you are making, even in Quran Allah said he gave ability to Muhammad so he can remember verses ACCEPT things which we cause him to forget ? Nice trick .. Allah the imagination of Muhammad was always helpful to him. Why dont u accept Muhammad messed up and you can't do anything about it ? what is wrong with it to accept the truth ?
i think i made it clear...those hadiths which contradict Quran...i didnt say about all the hadiths...Quran is a standard for checking other religious concepts or us..and we have got reasons for it!!!...Hadith cant b error free becoz it is the work of human beings...our belief is regarding Quran that its error free...not about hadith
so any hadith which contradicts Quran can b neglected ...
would u please like to tell me if u r an atheist or a christian or a jew.....so that i can tlak to u accordingly..u might ask y...the answer is simple..i want to answer u according to your mentality
MindMaster:Again it is emphasized that civility and courteousness demands that you do not do anything that is not liked by billions of people in the world. Muslims deem it blasphamous,harsh and presumptuous to print fake and imaginary figures of their beloved master Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa sallalho alehe wasallam. You can argue without fake pictures.So kindly have regard for your fellow-beings to remove the pictures. It is important that one has respect for the feelings of others.
@muhammadkaghulam..if its a picture is not of Muhammad then what is ur concern? who said that we should respect so called beloved masters of people ? which law says this ?
The purpose of this vdo is to show you the so called in-perfect memory of Muhammad and then the muslim claim that Quran is revealed and protected by allah, if Muhammad himself was not sure then why are you so sure about it ? why Allah caused him to forget such important revelations ?
MindMasters, In Islam, Quran is considered to be the first source of guidence. Hadith comes second. There is not an iota of doubt about the authenticity of Quran. Any hadith that contradicts Quran is either misunderstood, taken out of context or is not authentic. So Quran is the ultimate source of guidence for all the Muslims. I hope this clears your misunderstandings about this issue.
@bilalbusy.. you can consider anything, there is no limit on wishful thinking, but does it make Quran a divine book ? Who said this hadith contradicts with Quran ? did you watched the video carefully ? I gave you a Quranic verse in which Allah himself making room for Muhammad so he can mess up things.
Pls tell me if Muhammad forgot Quranic verses, does it make other verses suspicious ? Absolutely ! so If muhammad was not sure, then why r u telling us stories about authenticity ??
You r n opportunist person and not only You alone, the entire Ahmadi community.
Here at this junction you r saying ""Quran is first source of guidance and second comes HADITH""
When Questions are raised for the integrity of Ahmadiyat, you people quote HADITH and you forget QURAN. The entire Ahmediyat roams over MIRZA and Hadith. Mind you, HADITH were collected after 100 years of death of Moahmmed SAW
Musims don't like imaginary pics of their beloved prophet.So courtesy demands that no such pics are made.
Yes, he was prophet as well as a human being. So he could forget.Allah had His ways to remind him what Allah desired was to be remembered.
The Quran today is in the same original, pure form. There is no evidence to the contrary.
Sometimes there could be conflict in any two Hadith. This is so because all Hadith are not authentic. In such case, the one in conformity with Quran is accepted.
@muhammadkaghulam.. you know that Muhammad forgot things and its written in his history, so what prove do you have that he what ever he wrote or his compenions wrote is not what it was revealed to him ? you have practically none evidence.
He messed up and you can not do about him other then to invent new stories about his superior personality which he lacked in all sense, but atleast bring some credible evidence, instead of just making such statements.
MindMasters:Allah says in Quran,"Verily We Ourselves have sent down this Exhortation, and most surely We will be its Guardian."(15:9)
So Allah has protected Quran and it is available in pure, original form. Any hadith giving any other impression will not be accepted. Quran is the main source of Knowledge and Wisdom.
In some fairness, the koran clearly shows that allah was all confused, probably in the advanced stage of some dementing disease - I suspect Alzheimer's - coupled with Acromegaly. There has to be a reason he forgot where he stuck gonads, AND embryology, etc. The book is a complete mess, insulting everyone's intellectual capacity. Mohammad was a yarn teller, and sexually deviant predator,nothing more.
quran is only authentic book of Allah( almighty god) and hadiths were not.
ifthyder 2 years ago
u r Mr strawman
hurataimad 3 years ago
set it up nicely with a strawman, when have muslims ever said that our prophet never forgot, as far as i know he had a human memory, n thats the reason he had to take time to memorize the quran himself from the angel gabriel, especial in the last ten day of ramadan, when he would just sit in isolation with the angel reviewing the quran.
hurataimad 3 years ago
MindMasters:Only thoseWords ofAllah are preserved for which there is promise by Allah.He declares inQuran,"Verily We Ourselves have sent down this Exhortation, and most surely We will be its Guardian."15:9There was no such promise for earlier Scriptures because they had limited application in time and space.Quran has universal application and it is for the guidance of all people,for all times till the Doomsday.So Allah has His own plans to preserveQuran literally as well as spiritually.
muhammadkaghulam 3 years ago
About Quran being preserved lets see
1. The Quran is preserved.
2. God's Revelations which preceded the Quran include the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel.
These Books make up a large portion of the Bible.
3. The Quran, the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are all the Word of Allah.
4. God's Word does not change.
5. The revelations that came before the Quran have become corrupted.
So the conclusion will be .. continue in next message
MindMasters 3 years ago
We now have to deal with this logic: 1. The Quran, the Torah, the Psalms and the Gospel are all Allah's Word. 2. The current Torah, Psalms and Gospel are corrupted. 3. The final word of Allah, the Quran is preserved. 1st Conclusion: Some of Allah's Words are corrupted 2nd Conclusion: Some of Allah's Words are preserved.
MindMasters 3 years ago
MindMasters:Only thoseWords ofAllah are preserved for which there is promise by Allah.He declares in Quran,"Verily We Ourselves have sent down this Exhortation, and most surely We will be its Guardian."(15:9.There was no such promise for earlier Scriptures because they had limited application in time and space.Quran has universal application and it the Book for the guidance of all people,for all times till the Doomsday.So Allah has His own plans to preserveQuran literally as well as spiritually.
muslimahmadi 3 years ago
although the words of ALLAH that he is going to preserve Quran r enough for us but the above mentioned things also confirm to us that Quran is safe..and please...before answeringme..listen to the lecture from dr Gary Miler..and than u can find that y do u we have confirmation that Quran is preserved coz i cant type for u his whole lecture(more than an hour)..if u r interested than pm me and ill tell u about the exact lecture
adeelalam084 3 years ago
@adeelalam084.. I am not Muslim nor I have any religion, I am a free thinker, I don't wanna be a slave of Allah like you are.
However, I accept your information on basis of a n email discussion ! interesting, then let me know and I will give you my email address, then you have time to refute all the points you think I am making .. fair ??
MindMasters 3 years ago
as far as i can understand u r probably an apostate.......and u have something to do with qadianis too..probably u r ataracted towards it or u otherwise...
so i think u know the point of view of muslims in many cases and i hope that u know the reasons for believing in Quran
adeelalam084 3 years ago
adeelalam084, that is a new information 4 me that I am an apostate ! lol you start predicting things now ?
qadianis or you muslims, they are the same face of Islam, two side of coins and have same beliefs. any how I am focusing things around hadiths, say in clear words that these hadiths from Sahi Bukhari are false ! Don't twist the truth, even in Quran Allah said Muhammad forgot things, if this was the standard of his memory then what is ur prove of Quran authenticity ? give me Prove! no talk
MindMasters 3 years ago
once again..if u read the verse again...if u do it than what does it say..only those things which ALLAH wants u to forget...right???
now it doesnt mean that Mohammad(SAW) had each and everything in his mind from the childhood to death...no...not forgetting criteria implies to Quran
and even if that hadith is true than it simply means that ALLAH made him to get those verses back in his mind through somebody else..so where is the prblem?
adeelalam084 3 years ago
By degrees shall we teach thee (Muhammad) to declare (the message), so thou shalt not forget, except as God wills ... (Sura 87:6-7,).
This verse is not saying that Muhammad will never forget any of the Qur'an. It is saying that he will only forget what God wills. Thus the verse seems to be an explanation and justification of Muhammad's forgetfulness. This interpretation is also the interpretation found in the Hadith.
However this lead to us conclude that Muhammad was not perfect in Memory ...
MindMasters 3 years ago
The evidence from the Qur'an and Hadith shows that Muhammad and his Companions had normal memories and did forget parts of the Qur'an. Muslim leaders should stop making exaggerated claims about Muhammad; he was an ordinary man. Muhammad said of himself: "I am only a human being and I forget just as you do" (Bukhari, Abu Dawud).
MindMasters 3 years ago
also listen to gary miller(an ex christian) who checked Quran on the standard of logic and found it to b 100% true..like the repitation of words...word Ask..comes 332 times in Quran and the word..Say(answer) comes the same number of time...the usage of word day(as a whole singular plural or whatever) comes 365 times..and i can give u a list of such things...and if Quranic verses would have been lost than u woudlnt ever find this sort of consistancy
adeelalam084 3 years ago
these aspect were checked and brought forward by Dr Gary Miller who checked Quran on the hardest standard of logic and specially the repitation of words and he was amazed to find that it was 100% accurate.(continue)
adeelalam084 3 years ago
^dude..its simple..if Quran says that pophet was given perfect memory and hadith says otherwise...than the hadith which was written 200 years after prophet(SAW) is wrong..thats it..very simple!!! we claim about Quran that its perfect but not hadith...hadith can never b perfect nd at the same level as Quran..
adeelalam084 3 years ago
@adeelalam084.. dude are you ready to declare all the hadiths are wrong then ? if you can not trust these hadiths then why don't you officialy throw them dust bin ?
its just another trick from Muslims, when ever they face a problem, then either context jumps in or hadith becomes false .. come and grow up and focus on thesubject.
MindMasters 3 years ago
MindMaster:Why do u impose your view? Muslims hold the view that Quran is supreme. The ahadeeth against any clear injunction of Quran cannot be taken at its face value.
muhammadkaghulam 3 years ago
@muhammadkaghulam.. am I imposing my view son you? what are you talking about ?
read ur own words Mr. and see what kind of contradictory statements you are making, even in Quran Allah said he gave ability to Muhammad so he can remember verses ACCEPT things which we cause him to forget ? Nice trick .. Allah the imagination of Muhammad was always helpful to him. Why dont u accept Muhammad messed up and you can't do anything about it ? what is wrong with it to accept the truth ?
MindMasters 3 years ago
i think i made it clear...those hadiths which contradict Quran...i didnt say about all the hadiths...Quran is a standard for checking other religious concepts or us..and we have got reasons for it!!!...Hadith cant b error free becoz it is the work of human beings...our belief is regarding Quran that its error free...not about hadith
so any hadith which contradicts Quran can b neglected ...
adeelalam084 3 years ago
would u please like to tell me if u r an atheist or a christian or a jew.....so that i can tlak to u accordingly..u might ask y...the answer is simple..i want to answer u according to your mentality
adeelalam084 3 years ago
MindMaster:Again it is emphasized that civility and courteousness demands that you do not do anything that is not liked by billions of people in the world. Muslims deem it blasphamous,harsh and presumptuous to print fake and imaginary figures of their beloved master Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa sallalho alehe wasallam. You can argue without fake pictures.So kindly have regard for your fellow-beings to remove the pictures. It is important that one has respect for the feelings of others.
muhammadkaghulam 3 years ago
@muhammadkaghulam..if its a picture is not of Muhammad then what is ur concern? who said that we should respect so called beloved masters of people ? which law says this ?
The purpose of this vdo is to show you the so called in-perfect memory of Muhammad and then the muslim claim that Quran is revealed and protected by allah, if Muhammad himself was not sure then why are you so sure about it ? why Allah caused him to forget such important revelations ?
focus on topic and answer if you can !
MindMasters 3 years ago
Surat Al A'la (87:6)
""We shall make you to recite , so you shall not forget""
Almighty Allah said, HE will teach Mohammed SAW , then he will not forget.
Please dont twist the word and if you are looking for GUIDANCE then read it and try to understand.
MohammadiBegum 3 years ago
MindMasters, In Islam, Quran is considered to be the first source of guidence. Hadith comes second. There is not an iota of doubt about the authenticity of Quran. Any hadith that contradicts Quran is either misunderstood, taken out of context or is not authentic. So Quran is the ultimate source of guidence for all the Muslims. I hope this clears your misunderstandings about this issue.
bilalbusy 3 years ago
@bilalbusy.. you can consider anything, there is no limit on wishful thinking, but does it make Quran a divine book ? Who said this hadith contradicts with Quran ? did you watched the video carefully ? I gave you a Quranic verse in which Allah himself making room for Muhammad so he can mess up things.
Pls tell me if Muhammad forgot Quranic verses, does it make other verses suspicious ? Absolutely ! so If muhammad was not sure, then why r u telling us stories about authenticity ??
MindMasters 3 years ago
bilal
You r n opportunist person and not only You alone, the entire Ahmadi community.
Here at this junction you r saying ""Quran is first source of guidance and second comes HADITH""
When Questions are raised for the integrity of Ahmadiyat, you people quote HADITH and you forget QURAN. The entire Ahmediyat roams over MIRZA and Hadith. Mind you, HADITH were collected after 100 years of death of Moahmmed SAW
You have a double UGLY Face.
MohammadiBegum 3 years ago
Musims don't like imaginary pics of their beloved prophet.So courtesy demands that no such pics are made.
Yes, he was prophet as well as a human being. So he could forget.Allah had His ways to remind him what Allah desired was to be remembered.
The Quran today is in the same original, pure form. There is no evidence to the contrary.
Sometimes there could be conflict in any two Hadith. This is so because all Hadith are not authentic. In such case, the one in conformity with Quran is accepted.
muhammadkaghulam 3 years ago
@muhammadkaghulam.. you know that Muhammad forgot things and its written in his history, so what prove do you have that he what ever he wrote or his compenions wrote is not what it was revealed to him ? you have practically none evidence.
He messed up and you can not do about him other then to invent new stories about his superior personality which he lacked in all sense, but atleast bring some credible evidence, instead of just making such statements.
MindMasters 3 years ago
MindMasters:Allah says in Quran,"Verily We Ourselves have sent down this Exhortation, and most surely We will be its Guardian."(15:9)
So Allah has protected Quran and it is available in pure, original form. Any hadith giving any other impression will not be accepted. Quran is the main source of Knowledge and Wisdom.
muhammadkaghulam 3 years ago
In some fairness, the koran clearly shows that allah was all confused, probably in the advanced stage of some dementing disease - I suspect Alzheimer's - coupled with Acromegaly. There has to be a reason he forgot where he stuck gonads, AND embryology, etc. The book is a complete mess, insulting everyone's intellectual capacity. Mohammad was a yarn teller, and sexually deviant predator,nothing more.
islamsins 3 years ago
Message me some sort of instant messaging Screen name.
I want to talk to you.
No emails, only real time,
I know you use emails because you can run away, but if your really dedicated then face me in real time.
Dont do the cowards approach and knit together flawed logic with history and throw it at me.
And dont give me some BS excuse like you have no time, because I know a 38 year old on youtube has plenty of time.
Alkisnar 3 years ago
@Alkisnar.. you had your chance when I gave you chance to talk, you refused, now you want to talk once again with me ??
I have decided not to talk with kids like you, go and learn something and when you are ready then come back.
MindMasters 3 years ago
You know this is getting pathetic, its like watching a 5 year old spar with Muhammad Ali.
Why is Ramazan important?
How many times was the holy quran revealed?
How many times a year was it revealed?
Who wrote it down?
Who memorized it?
How many people around the world have it memorized now?
Why are all the Arabic versions the same then?
Go get a life, and read more books.
Alkisnar 3 years ago
Prophet Muhammad was Human and forgetting some verses does not mean that He forgot the Message which He received from Allah.
2nd Point is that most of the Hadiths are faked and fabricated and lies attributed to Him and these hadiths could have been fabrications.
phippi46 3 years ago
Nice Video !
AhmadiOrg 3 years ago