My book, "Wrestling Analyzed" contains some historical info. about the development of wrestling, both pro & amateur. Also 204 photos of amateur techniques & training strategies.
To bigpoopie69: The Gotch referred to below, was that Karl?
The orig. Frank Gotch was a 204# "hooker" who could hurt you with his toe-hold, illegal in amateur wrestling. Today's college wrestling bears some resemblance to the pro style ca. 1900-20. Today it's a much quicker style.
Frank Gotch was known as "The Peerless One", who held the World's Championship from 1908-13. Was very hard to wrestle as he knew a lot, and as Thesz called him, was "a dirty wrestler", LOL. Today it's entertainment!
@musicalrich1 No Karl came later in japan. I think it was in the 60's and 70's and he took the last name Gotch as a gimmick to pay respect to the Greatest legit hooker of all time Frank Gotch. Karl Gotch's real name was actually Karl Istaz.
I was referring to what i read from insiders years ago that the promoters "kept him from losing"; he held the championship for many years, longer than almost any old veteran. He could shoot, and was very well-trained. Won his first World title at age 21!
Your comment shows a lot of knowledge on the sport...
I love Wrestling like this, where its not about gimmicks, and story lines and juiced up greek god like bodies. I like it when its two average looking competitors' with above average wrestling skills, getting in there and putting on a scientific clinic of a wrestling match.
There's a lot of talk that Thesz was the most "protected" champ of the modern era. What really matters is that Lou started in the late 1930's when it was more scientific, and could really wrestle. He took on all the greats.
Gagne also was a valid contender, a college champ and an Olympian. Not bad credentials. He learned showmanship as was needed in the pro ranks...
I read that Inoki worked out with Thesz who helped to promote pro wrestling in Japan.
@musicalrich1 You'd like Thesz' autobiography. In it, Lou discusses his stints promoting wrestling in the States & abroad. As for "protected," I never heard that one. Do you mean it in the sense that "promoters kept the belt on him?" or do you mean he needed bodyguards? I believe Thesz held the belt a lot b/c he could shoot at a time when a traveling champ needed the ability to win for real if necessary. In his book, Thesz also tells about needing bodyguards, especially in Singapore.
Lou Thesz was the greatest pure wrestler in the history of wrestling. Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan and all the others that came after him couldn't hold a candle to him. I've seen alot of his matches and he could do it all. Great clip.
@styx4ever1963 Acording to Gagne they wrestled a few times and after a couple draws Gagne told Thesz that he WOULD win the next match next match, and they never wrestled again. The NWA wanted to keep the belt on Thesz so they could control where it went. That is why Gagne bought the AWA and became champ.
@hojorocks3 -- Verne Gagne was a great champion but he wasn't Lou Thesz and I seriously doubt that story. Gagne bought the AWA because he coudn't beat Thesz. That's the real story.
@wickedbuzzproduction Wrestling is a work, they would have never competed for real so when Verne wasn't given the opportunity to take the belt he started his own company and made himself champion
@7Boogiewoogie -- wrestling is a work? really? dude I've read Lou Thesz's book and that's what was written. Verne Gage wasn't in Lou Thesz's class.... work or not... and about work.... you better get going to your job at mcdonalds... assburglar.
@wickedbuzzproduction Well there are two sides to every story and since I know Greg Gagne personally and just to make sure that my information was correct I just called and asked him... he told me that I was on point. Whether Verne was a better performer than Lou... well that will always be a matter of opinion. Both were great in my books. Too bad you had to get personal, but it does show your maturity.
@wickedbuzzproduction I put together an autograph signing last year, I had 23 guys including Greg at my event, an oh yeah I did it all on a McDonald's salary, that's a laugh. Maybe you should keep your mouth shut before I shut another one of your misguided lies down.... yeah you'll come back with some more pathetic bullshit about what you think you know, but at this point I don't care I'm bored with you, I had my fun and now I'm done with you KID.
@7Boogiewoogie -- kid? lol!!!! you're the little arrogant know it all kid behind the computer telling me what a "work" is...LOL!!! and only on here you get away with telling someone to shut your mouth. In person you wouldn't have the balls cause you're another gutless internet sack of shit... whatever you think or know.... means shit. So save it. Asshole.
arriba la lucha mexicana, la japonesa y no podria decir lo mismo de los estadounidenses que son puro musculo y ya. Pero gente como lou thesz es lo que rescata a la lucha libre americana
I would have to say Lou Thesz was the greatest wrestler who ever lived. Following him would be Bruno Sammartino. Hogan was a steriod using show boy who couldn't wrestle if his life depended upon it. He could not match Bruno in strength nor could he match Thesz in skill. Both Thesz and Bruno would actually pin Hogan with ease.
Thesz was called a "Hooker" (which was the title of his autobiography) because he started when a some aspects wrestling was legit back in the 1930s and 40s. Thesz told Buddy Rogers when Rogers had to drop the NWA title that they could "do things the easy way, or the hard way" to keep Rogers from not going with the program. If Thesz was in the sport today, he'd be more of a MMA fighter.
Actually he trained his army squad, he was known as a hooker, which meant he could legit cripple you in the ring. He was know to do that to people who were being lazy or not selling.
They couldn't pin a cockroach to a 2 x 4. They are all entertainers who wrestle in matches with pretedermined outcomes. From Gotch to Sammartino to Hogan to Bret Hart...all entertainers.
I know for a fact that karl gotch,bret hart,lou thez, and most of the japs will hurt you in real life. pin you down and work you over. remember there was no mma back then and this paid the bills.
at one time it was but who wanted to either see a 3 second match or a 2 hour snooze fest. that's why it became fake. but guys like thez were legit and gotch and stu hart was a cacc wrestler as well so i imagine he would had tought his sons.
@j0hnwrath You might like a book called "Fall Guys: the Barnums of Bounce" by Marcus Griffin. This 1937 expose is only availble in monograph style reprints now. Griffin was an investigative journalist in Chicago who suspected in the 30s that wrestling was turning into an entirely fake sport, which would not bode well with the gamblers in the aisles. He shares his research & gives the first & most detailed account we have of how the sport turned into entertainment.
I give Hogan a 1. I reserve my 0 for the Ultimate Warrior. Sorry. But at least Hogan had some quality matches. Warriors only good matches were against Hogan, Savage, and Rick Rude
Flair was a decent wrestler, but he was more of an entertainer than a wrestler. Thesz was a true wrestler, like Dean Malenko. Plus how many wrestling moves did Ric Flair invent? The answer is ZERO. Thesz invented not only the Thesz Press, but the STF, and the original powerbomb as well.
Ric Flair is nothing more than one of those actor pretty boys who I could beat with my eyes closed. I would not want to see Thesz waste his great talent on such a bum as Dickless Flair the pussy pants!
Greco-Roman wrestling doesn't even count as a combat sport. Put an MMA guy there with strong martial arts skills against an amateur wrestler or a "sports-entertainer" and they'll last exactly 15 seconds. Look at how quickly Randy Couture dispatched of Ludvig Borga (Tony Halme) though if it had been a Marquis of Queensbury boxing match, Couture would have been decked.
couture was a Greco roman wrestler and so was severn. and yes all forms of wrestling count as a combat sport. I forgot who said it but an olympic medalist was ask why he chooses pro wrestling over real wrestling. he said gold medals don't put food on the table.
@bigpoopie69 IMO, what John means is: Wrestling began as a real pro sport in the 19th century when it was catch wrestling. The most popular spectator sport in the US, it resembled what we call MMA. Only during the Depression did it evolve into entertainment. Albeit fake, promoters kept training catch wrestlers who were hired muscle for keeping other wrestlers in line. Those John lists fall in that category. Do remember: Couture's initial creds are Greco-Roman, as are Severn's & Henderson's.
Lou Thesz is real shooter, and Ric is a pale rip off of Buddy Rogers- the original 'Nature Boy.' Furthermore, his wrestling skills are lesser than a Buddy Rogers. His persona isn't a good match either for the soft spoken gentlemen like Thesz. Inoki repersents the perfect match up as far as Thesz is concerned.
hang on, Flair always gave credit to Rogers and Rogers had respect for Flair. Moreover, Flair isn't Michaels, or edge or any of theose homos. You think Race and McDaniel and the Funks would have let him get away with his pretty boy antics if he couldn't take a bump? Flair took slippers from the best and lived to talk about it.
@HulkHoganfan89 Bro you don't have to tell me and I don't have to ask Brett Hart to know that the moves connect, I have eyes, that is a given.
7Boogiewoogie 6 months ago in playlist ace how long
Err...Where is the rest of the match?
SuperDUDERIKI 8 months ago
What a splendid backdrop!
I've never seen any of the kind.
Irahka 11 months ago
My book, "Wrestling Analyzed" contains some historical info. about the development of wrestling, both pro & amateur. Also 204 photos of amateur techniques & training strategies.
musicalrich1 1 year ago
To bigpoopie69: The Gotch referred to below, was that Karl?
The orig. Frank Gotch was a 204# "hooker" who could hurt you with his toe-hold, illegal in amateur wrestling. Today's college wrestling bears some resemblance to the pro style ca. 1900-20. Today it's a much quicker style.
Frank Gotch was known as "The Peerless One", who held the World's Championship from 1908-13. Was very hard to wrestle as he knew a lot, and as Thesz called him, was "a dirty wrestler", LOL. Today it's entertainment!
musicalrich1 1 year ago
@musicalrich1 No Karl came later in japan. I think it was in the 60's and 70's and he took the last name Gotch as a gimmick to pay respect to the Greatest legit hooker of all time Frank Gotch. Karl Gotch's real name was actually Karl Istaz.
jamesgville 10 months ago
The Leroy Moon, Liked your comment!
I was referring to what i read from insiders years ago that the promoters "kept him from losing"; he held the championship for many years, longer than almost any old veteran. He could shoot, and was very well-trained. Won his first World title at age 21!
Your comment shows a lot of knowledge on the sport...
-rich-
musicalrich1 1 year ago
I'd have loved to have seen Thesz vs. Johnny Saint.
AlexDCl 1 year ago
I love Wrestling like this, where its not about gimmicks, and story lines and juiced up greek god like bodies. I like it when its two average looking competitors' with above average wrestling skills, getting in there and putting on a scientific clinic of a wrestling match.
noblesiner 1 year ago
fanasty match finally come true!! only match that would be a true dream would be thesz vs flair and thesz vs samartino!! now those are dream matchs!
rtfuhj 1 year ago
I just realized (and someone might have mentioned it earlier), the ref looks to be Antonio Rocca (He would be the only ref ever to work barefooted)
RayNDeere 1 year ago
There's a lot of talk that Thesz was the most "protected" champ of the modern era. What really matters is that Lou started in the late 1930's when it was more scientific, and could really wrestle. He took on all the greats.
Gagne also was a valid contender, a college champ and an Olympian. Not bad credentials. He learned showmanship as was needed in the pro ranks...
I read that Inoki worked out with Thesz who helped to promote pro wrestling in Japan.
musicalrich1 1 year ago
@musicalrich1 You'd like Thesz' autobiography. In it, Lou discusses his stints promoting wrestling in the States & abroad. As for "protected," I never heard that one. Do you mean it in the sense that "promoters kept the belt on him?" or do you mean he needed bodyguards? I believe Thesz held the belt a lot b/c he could shoot at a time when a traveling champ needed the ability to win for real if necessary. In his book, Thesz also tells about needing bodyguards, especially in Singapore.
TheLeroyMoon 1 year ago
inoki the best ever
zarskoeselo 1 year ago
Lou Thesz was the greatest pure wrestler in the history of wrestling. Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan and all the others that came after him couldn't hold a candle to him. I've seen alot of his matches and he could do it all. Great clip.
wickedbuzzproduction 1 year ago
This match is A regend! Lou Thesz and Antonio Inoki makes the art of Martial Arts!
zanax1001 1 year ago
wow i never realized thesz was as tall as he is
snowpanth 1 year ago
japans best vs Americas best
silverbeast75 1 year ago
Did Lou Thesz ever wrestle Verne Gane
styx4ever1963 1 year ago
@styx4ever1963 Yeah he wrestled him three times all the matches ended in a draw (dang!) lol
eslubin 1 year ago
@styx4ever1963 yes.
killerdugong 1 year ago
@styx4ever1963 Acording to Gagne they wrestled a few times and after a couple draws Gagne told Thesz that he WOULD win the next match next match, and they never wrestled again. The NWA wanted to keep the belt on Thesz so they could control where it went. That is why Gagne bought the AWA and became champ.
hojorocks3 1 year ago
@hojorocks3 -- Verne Gagne was a great champion but he wasn't Lou Thesz and I seriously doubt that story. Gagne bought the AWA because he coudn't beat Thesz. That's the real story.
wickedbuzzproduction 1 year ago
@wickedbuzzproduction Wrestling is a work, they would have never competed for real so when Verne wasn't given the opportunity to take the belt he started his own company and made himself champion
7Boogiewoogie 9 months ago
@7Boogiewoogie -- wrestling is a work? really? dude I've read Lou Thesz's book and that's what was written. Verne Gage wasn't in Lou Thesz's class.... work or not... and about work.... you better get going to your job at mcdonalds... assburglar.
wickedbuzzproduction 9 months ago
@wickedbuzzproduction Well there are two sides to every story and since I know Greg Gagne personally and just to make sure that my information was correct I just called and asked him... he told me that I was on point. Whether Verne was a better performer than Lou... well that will always be a matter of opinion. Both were great in my books. Too bad you had to get personal, but it does show your maturity.
7Boogiewoogie 9 months ago
@7Boogiewoogie -- yeah you talked to greg gagne....lol.
wickedbuzzproduction 9 months ago
@wickedbuzzproduction I put together an autograph signing last year, I had 23 guys including Greg at my event, an oh yeah I did it all on a McDonald's salary, that's a laugh. Maybe you should keep your mouth shut before I shut another one of your misguided lies down.... yeah you'll come back with some more pathetic bullshit about what you think you know, but at this point I don't care I'm bored with you, I had my fun and now I'm done with you KID.
7Boogiewoogie 9 months ago
@7Boogiewoogie -- kid? lol!!!! you're the little arrogant know it all kid behind the computer telling me what a "work" is...LOL!!! and only on here you get away with telling someone to shut your mouth. In person you wouldn't have the balls cause you're another gutless internet sack of shit... whatever you think or know.... means shit. So save it. Asshole.
wickedbuzzproduction 9 months ago
no part 2?
outlawtorndoa 1 year ago
is thez shooting on inoki?
Rhamiel506 2 years ago
thesz was feared well into his fifties because he could take you out of the match. his wrok was choreographed, but he knew how to beat you
32alltheway 2 years ago
Thesz came up with 4 head scissors in a row beginning at 3:05.
wrestler58 2 years ago
Thesz had Inoki pinned in the first ten seconds. The incompetent ref was way out of position and it changed the whole match.
eslubin 2 years ago
@eslubin
Err, you do realize the outcome of this was predetermined, right?
bigpoopie69 2 years ago
Awesome. Classic match. Want to see the rest of it. RIP, Lou Thesz. Long Live Antonio Inoki.
Chuloloc 2 years ago
I'd love to see Thesz in his prime versus Bryan Danielson.
Sanguiluna 2 years ago 4
I'll give you one better...
Thesz vs Kurt Angle
Thesz vs Bret Hart
RSXemperor 2 years ago
Inoki was 32
Thesz was 59
h88kaiser 2 years ago
All time grestest wrestler Lou Thesz
h88kaiser 2 years ago 2
Inoki was 32 years old and Lou was 50 at that time.Wow,Lou was still so very strong.
rockrabbitt 2 years ago
Thesz was 59 at this match
eslubin 2 years ago
esto es lucha no como wwe
arriba la lucha mexicana, la japonesa y no podria decir lo mismo de los estadounidenses que son puro musculo y ya. Pero gente como lou thesz es lo que rescata a la lucha libre americana
johncenahillsong 2 years ago
Esto es lucha libre y no mamadas
edgarlopz 2 years ago
I would have to say Lou Thesz was the greatest wrestler who ever lived. Following him would be Bruno Sammartino. Hogan was a steriod using show boy who couldn't wrestle if his life depended upon it. He could not match Bruno in strength nor could he match Thesz in skill. Both Thesz and Bruno would actually pin Hogan with ease.
TonySpargo 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
he was a fake wrestler obviously like all wrestlers in the pro game
billysue2 2 years ago
The difference is, though, that Thesz could, and sometimes had to, really wrestle. At times guys would refuse to job and he'd make 'em.
fattomandeibu 2 years ago 3
Thesz was called a "Hooker" (which was the title of his autobiography) because he started when a some aspects wrestling was legit back in the 1930s and 40s. Thesz told Buddy Rogers when Rogers had to drop the NWA title that they could "do things the easy way, or the hard way" to keep Rogers from not going with the program. If Thesz was in the sport today, he'd be more of a MMA fighter.
RayNDeere 2 years ago 3
Actually he trained his army squad, he was known as a hooker, which meant he could legit cripple you in the ring. He was know to do that to people who were being lazy or not selling.
TheForgottenFlesh 2 years ago 2
Actually I would say Rikidozan would be behind Thesz.
TheForgottenFlesh 2 years ago
@TonySpargo
They couldn't pin a cockroach to a 2 x 4. They are all entertainers who wrestle in matches with pretedermined outcomes. From Gotch to Sammartino to Hogan to Bret Hart...all entertainers.
bigpoopie69 2 years ago
I know for a fact that karl gotch,bret hart,lou thez, and most of the japs will hurt you in real life. pin you down and work you over. remember there was no mma back then and this paid the bills.
j0hnwrath 2 years ago 2
@j0hnwrath
Do you think it was a competitive sport back then?
bigpoopie69 2 years ago
at one time it was but who wanted to either see a 3 second match or a 2 hour snooze fest. that's why it became fake. but guys like thez were legit and gotch and stu hart was a cacc wrestler as well so i imagine he would had tought his sons.
j0hnwrath 2 years ago
@j0hnwrath You might like a book called "Fall Guys: the Barnums of Bounce" by Marcus Griffin. This 1937 expose is only availble in monograph style reprints now. Griffin was an investigative journalist in Chicago who suspected in the 30s that wrestling was turning into an entirely fake sport, which would not bode well with the gamblers in the aisles. He shares his research & gives the first & most detailed account we have of how the sport turned into entertainment.
TheLeroyMoon 1 year ago
Lou Thez>Ric Flair
Thez didn't need a gimmick or flashy catchphrase, he was entertaining by JUST his in ring work. Japan respected that.
That's why it will always be
Puroresu>>>WWE
TheForgottenFlesh 3 years ago
Thesz was the KING....even as an old man..
The WWE looks like the Cartoon Network now...
beatlejim64 3 years ago 20
so true!
rtfuhj 1 year ago
I give Hogan a 1. I reserve my 0 for the Ultimate Warrior. Sorry. But at least Hogan had some quality matches. Warriors only good matches were against Hogan, Savage, and Rick Rude
RoderickStrong 3 years ago
Dammit, this was meant for another vid. I must be drunk, LOL
RoderickStrong 3 years ago
Flair was a decent wrestler, but he was more of an entertainer than a wrestler. Thesz was a true wrestler, like Dean Malenko. Plus how many wrestling moves did Ric Flair invent? The answer is ZERO. Thesz invented not only the Thesz Press, but the STF, and the original powerbomb as well.
RoderickStrong 3 years ago
Flair was a sports entertainer. Thesz was a wrestler. Not that it all wasn't a work, but there is a difference.
joethecabdriver 3 years ago
Love the quick greco roman back suplex at the beginning. Very realistic and very devestating.
thegreatpampero 3 years ago
Ric Flair is nothing more than one of those actor pretty boys who I could beat with my eyes closed. I would not want to see Thesz waste his great talent on such a bum as Dickless Flair the pussy pants!
robbystlace 3 years ago
flair actually has amerture wrestling cred
j0hnwrath 2 years ago 2
@j0hnwrath
Greco-Roman wrestling doesn't even count as a combat sport. Put an MMA guy there with strong martial arts skills against an amateur wrestler or a "sports-entertainer" and they'll last exactly 15 seconds. Look at how quickly Randy Couture dispatched of Ludvig Borga (Tony Halme) though if it had been a Marquis of Queensbury boxing match, Couture would have been decked.
bigpoopie69 2 years ago
couture was a Greco roman wrestler and so was severn. and yes all forms of wrestling count as a combat sport. I forgot who said it but an olympic medalist was ask why he chooses pro wrestling over real wrestling. he said gold medals don't put food on the table.
j0hnwrath 2 years ago
@j0hnwrath That was Kurt Angle. We wishes he could have done MMA instead.
AverageAsianMe 1 year ago
@bigpoopie69 IMO, what John means is: Wrestling began as a real pro sport in the 19th century when it was catch wrestling. The most popular spectator sport in the US, it resembled what we call MMA. Only during the Depression did it evolve into entertainment. Albeit fake, promoters kept training catch wrestlers who were hired muscle for keeping other wrestlers in line. Those John lists fall in that category. Do remember: Couture's initial creds are Greco-Roman, as are Severn's & Henderson's.
TheLeroyMoon 1 year ago
With all due respect to Inoki, I think Ric Flair is a better opponent for Lou Thesz.
Nim222 3 years ago
Lou Thesz is real shooter, and Ric is a pale rip off of Buddy Rogers- the original 'Nature Boy.' Furthermore, his wrestling skills are lesser than a Buddy Rogers. His persona isn't a good match either for the soft spoken gentlemen like Thesz. Inoki repersents the perfect match up as far as Thesz is concerned.
superlyger 3 years ago 2
hang on, Flair always gave credit to Rogers and Rogers had respect for Flair. Moreover, Flair isn't Michaels, or edge or any of theose homos. You think Race and McDaniel and the Funks would have let him get away with his pretty boy antics if he couldn't take a bump? Flair took slippers from the best and lived to talk about it.
hotel283 3 years ago
thesz vs. inoki...what a dream match!!!!
frank5304 3 years ago 11