Like the man said, irrational ideas cannot be dispelled by rational means. Belief without evidence cannot be refuted by evidence.
To a creationist, the very existence of evidence for evolution is proof of fraud. In the twisted, demon-haunted world they live in, the evidence must have been forged. Since a creationist can think only in terms of religious dogma, the scientists must be doing this because they are followers of a false religion.
Hmm, have they tried to do any attempt to do a brain map on Lucy by using skull measurements? They can compare it to measurements of humans and apes and even determine by the structure if she walked upright or was mostly a tree dweller. The bones can only tell us so much. Looking at bones is all about interpretation and comparisons. Having a partial skeleton is one thing, but a whole skeleton is more telling. Hope they find a whole one!!
I imagine her skull pieces have received about as much scrutiny as is possible to science. It is almost guaranteed that a dissertation written on such an aspect of her skull (and the others of the same species that have been found) will qualify as great doctorate level material, and probably has.
And "troll-boy?!" is that the best you can do?!, what are you like 8?, my 6 year old niece can do better than that!, thats just woeful!, its like calling someone poopoo head!, i should send you some actual insults to use on me before any data, you really do suck!.
If you can't site the record, then it never happened. Croaking that it is a fraud is evidence of nothing but faith in some other crackpot, and is most certainly not evidence.
Pfft!, so?, we can also teach em sign language aswell!, does not make em human though!, and did you know that human are the only species that can associate music with rythm??, chimps cannot, this has been scientifically proven!!, so how the hell are we related to them??.
@Aheadstix85: And one more time, stop spamming my page. If you can't face me with data here, then go crawl back under the rock that crawled off you troll-boy. Grown-ups are talking here.
Im gonna call your bluff mate!, your just running cos ya got nothing!, she was a fake, they debunked her!, deal with it, just another dead end for evolution.
@Aheadstix85: Always with the mysterious they. More YEC BS. Put a name and citation to the story or bugger off. We've even got publically available CAT scans for free review, not to mention the University of Texas elucy site where you can directly compare the major elements of AL 288-1 with both H. sapiens and P. troglodytes and see the transitons yourself. What have you got? "They". My ass. You've got jack, and best of all you know it.
@Aheadstix85: Said this before, say it again. Put your weak ass statements here, not on my page. And at least try to back them up with some real data. You're blocked until you can learn the rules of the game and stop spamming my page. I won't put up with nonsense.
@Quickened4e: They were not found just lying on the surface. They were partially embedded in the soil surface. This particular paleosol was found between two ash horizons from local volcanos. These were dated by the K/Ar method and returned an age in excess of 3 million years. It's all very carefull spelled out in Johansen's book and in all the papers that stemmed from this find. Anything else I can help you with?
Scientists don't use x-ray vision or seismology to find fossils. The only way to find them is when they erode out of the soil and become visible to a trained person walking by. No magic allowed. A complete Ardipithecus skeleton could be buried a foot underneath a paleo's tent, and it won't get discovered until a storm runs a gully-washer down the path and brings a bone to the surface. That means that new fossils might be found in the same place next year, and also that finds are very rare.
And a couple of links to whackaloon sites that make a lot of claims and yet provide no data. Sorry cool, you fail. I've already wiped the floor with jazzyhap and ikester over the model of AL 288-1 in the St. Louis science center, and if need be I'll do the same with you here. Additionally, the Laetoli arguments are easily covered. But I'll let you try to dig yourself out. Try.
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magick205 I am sure you have wiped the floor with no one you ignore evidence brought to you, you want evidence brought by people in your own religion, The evolution religion of lies usuals those fake scientists arent stupid enough to admit they are lieing and faking making up evidence. Evidence is nothing but a scam fake scientists lie get grants get donations get lots of money continue to lie and brainwash kids when evidence comes in proving it wrong they ignore it. Your blinded by your faith
@coolvideo28:"Your blinded by your faith " Project much there cool? Let's what else you got in your argument? Hmm. Conspiracy theory about fake scientists? Well that's really kind of batshit crazy, but we'll examine one: Dr. Donald C. Johanson: earned his bachelor's degree from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign in 1966. He earned his master's degree in 1970 and his PhD in 1974 from the University of Chicago. (continued)
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I havent asked about AIG because I already know you act like you are above me smarter then but truth is I could teach you soo much but you are set in your ways you are being greatly decieved andd dont even know it. as far as AIG is conserned you want to find curoption AIG is just 1 of many follow the money and you will find alot more then AIG
@coolvideo28: Follow the money? Good idea. Let's look at old buddy Ken Hamm's little outfit. These are 2008 figures mind you. He rakes in a reported $162,000 per year. That's reported income and not any perks or extras that would otherwise be unreported. The organization makes almost a million a year. Not bad in a state where the median income is about $37000.
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Ok and how much does richard dawkins make per year scaming people getting new believers for his faith the evolution religion of lies. If we were following the Money and were the Big money is going we could spend 10 years working are way down and never get near Ken Hamm but God bless him for spreading the truth
@coolvideo28: And again you (and everyone else who's reading this) will note that I'm providing clear and publically availble data. All my statements are based on clear facts and not on opinion. This is the difference between real science and the psuedoscience called Creationism/ID. We back up what we say.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God
@coolvideo28: And this is how I know I've won. When my opponent is reduced to the point of babbling bible verses. I think it's at this point you're supposed to whip out Pascal's Wager and threaten me with Hell? Or did you miss that part of the script? And much evidence? A couple of YT videos? And conspiracy theories with wackaloon websites? Here's how to refute an argument: Provide a citation to a peer-reviewed journal or other freely available source. Anything else is just your opinion.
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magick205 You bring no evidence to the table... Nothing you ignore the evidence I bring you because your faith is so great in the evolution religion of lies. There is nothing more true then Gods word thats why I show you the Word. I will pray for you you arebrainwashed by the evolution religion and refuse to see the truth even when its right in front of your face. If you actualy searched for the truth it would lead you to the Bible
@coolvideo28: "Nothing you ignore the evidence I bring you because your faith is so great in the evolution religion of lies." Bullshit. A handfull of YT videos that you don't even try to address is not evidence. And I have no "faith' in evolution. I see it everyday and can see the evidence myself. Your "faith", which is belief in the absence of evidence BTW, is on nothing you have ever seen yourself. Were you there?
Read the Bible and you will get a real education. until you learn the truth of the Bible you dont have a clue of what is going on on this earth and what is going to happen
@lotanddaughters Evolution is BULLSHIT!!!!!!, evolution is true delusion, wak up yourself, Lucy is a fake!, and it was proven so stick that up ur arse!.
@coolvideo28:(continued) In 1974, at the time of the discovery of Lucy, he was an assistant and associate professor of anthropology at Case Western Reserve University. Johanson also holds an honorary doctorate from Case Western Reserve University.[1] In 1981, he established the Institute of Human Origins in Berkeley, California which he later moved to Arizona State University in 1998. He was awarded an Honorary Doctorate by Westfield State College in 2008. And you have? Kent Hovind?
@coolvideo28: Kent "Jailtail" Hovind: In 1971 he graduated from East Peoria Community High School in East Peoria, Illinois. From 1972 until 1974 Hovind attended the non-accredited Midwestern Baptist College and received a Bachelor of Religious Education (B.R.E.). In 1988 and 1991 respectively, Hovind was awarded a master's degree and doctorate in Christian Education through correspondence from the non-accredited Patriot University in Colorado Springs, Colorado (continued)
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why do people go to non acredited Schools... I am going to 1 for one of my degrees, I am going to school for Psychology but if I go to an acredited university I cant use the Bible I have to counsel people for things I think are wrong, I have to learn about people are completly wrong about everything ex. sigmon frued at the secular college Iam going to I had to take psychology and they admit all there practices were proved wrong or in other words I want an education not an uneducation
@coolvideo28: No, you are going to one because they want your money and you obviously cannot be troubled with actually learning anything. Look back across all your posts. Crappy spelling, piss poor grammar, and no real argument or data to speak of? The best way you can help people is to get a real, intense education and a real school where you learn things that just might challenge what and why you think about the world the way you do.
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magick205 Thank you I can always tell when I am winning when the other person is realizing they are wrong they run scared from the argument and start talking about grammer. I am not writing an essay I am responding to many many people I quickly answere and move on to next person Iam debating you have brought nothing to the table I have brought you much evidence you ignore it a reral scientist would way all evidence you denie it before even hearing it, This is why you are in denial about God
@coolvideo28:However, Patriot Bible University is a diploma mill, as it has unreasonably low graduation requirements, lack of sufficient faculty or educational standards and a suspicious tuition scheme.The school's current policies allow students to attain bachelor's degrees, master's degrees and even "Doctor of Ministry" degrees in months, rather than years, for as little as $25 per month. Currently Patriot offers a monthly fee, unlike most universities, which only charge per-credit fees.
@coolvideo28: So cool, shall I continue? I can review Behe, Baugh, Dembski, or any other so-called "creation scientist" (GAKKK, that's two words that don't go together), as anyone with real, professional credentials have them available for public inspection. Now, if you want to discuss money, we can always look AiG's finanical statement and see who's really raking in the dough.
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Scientists that want a real education dont want to get low grades for telling the truth cant go to secular universitys were if scientists even mention evolution might be wrong they loose there tenur or just get fired. Anywere even Big name schools today require you to be indoctrinated in the evolution religion and If you are a real scientist that follows the truth were ever it goes you get fired because your not following the evolution religion so they have to go to Christian schools
@coolvideo28: More conspiracy nonsense. I sure hope you don't have access to either firearms or other sharp objects. In any event, you need to provide proof for your claims. Which you thus far cannot, or will not provide. Now, even "Christian schools" have syllabi and standards for instruction that must be followed in order for them to be accredited. The only place that a Hovind or Baugh could go is a crappy diploma mill. Notice you haven't asked about AiG's finances. Worried?
@orasis: She doensn't have a name per se, only catalog number AL 288-1. She does have two popular names. Lucy (of course) from the Beatles song that was playing, and her Amharic name: Dinkenesh (meaning "you are beautiful).
Unlike the team that unearthed Ardi, which contained a number of Ethiopian and other African researchers, Johansen's team had none such; thirty years ago they were just not very common. In fact the name Ardipithecus is a combo of Afar and Greek roots meaning ground floor ape, and ramidus, Afar for root, so she is the root of the first apes, which is slightly wrong because Ardipithecus had been chosen some years before much was known about the animal's place on the tree.
@coolvideo28: A fraud? OK, CITE IT! Make some accusations, provide some proof. Or simply be dismissed as yet another YEC crank. C'mon. Let's see whatcha got.
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magick205 I cant send liks here so I will send you a message with proof lucy is a fraud this goes for anyone else interested in knowing the truth. Just ask
@coolvideo28: A link to another website is not proof unless it's to an open source and peer reviewed jouranl of professionals. You make a lot of noise, but when it comes down to presenting facts, you're all hat and no horse. And yes, you can post links. It takes two seconds if you replace the "." with "dot".
@sharanprasanth: What are you on about, dear boy? Please don't say the Rak et al paper, as it is certain, you've not really read it. But, I'm willing to indulge you. Please cite said peer-reviewed paper and source.
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Tyrannosaurus rex is apex predator,now they say it was primarily a scavenger.the scientist cannot able to find the well known creature with a number of specimen.how come you expect the person with few bones to be right.you believe in them just like creationist believe in creation.there is a long way to go.there are so many theories out there with believable proofs.there so many living organisms not yet discovered in this world.our science is mostly based on theories with few proven
@sharanprasanth: But that still doesn't address the claims you've made eariler, which is that afarensis is not a human ancestor. I'm more than willing to discuss the remainder of your claims, IF you will first address that first claim. If not, then I'll simply dismiss you and be about my business.
This is rediculous. How are they aloud to say our ancesters like it's a fact. It's a theory and it's never been proven right. I hate when science does this. Lucy is a monkey.
A chimp never killed another chimp for money or women or food. A chimp never leaves there baby with another chimp to go away for long periods of time. A chimp doesn't find new and worse ways to polute the world. I don't think a chimp would want to associate itself as a relitive of a human.
Actually, Lucy, like ourselves, was an ape. And chimps do make war on each other and kill each other for food. Do a little research on the Gombe chimps for a little more info. Also search for "genius ape" here on YT for a very good series on more recent studies.
Actually, it a very extensive collection of facts that all support the underlying theory. It's unfortunate that you can not or more likely, choose not to see the simple facts as they stand. Ignorance is one thing, willful ignorance is entirely another. It's fortunate that the future doesn't lie in your hands any longer. Coming here and making pronouncements on things you obviously don't understand or know gives you no creedence or authority at all. Sad, really. Not suprising.
Talk about making pronouncements, you just blatently told me I am ignorant and it's sad that I have an opinion. You don't know me from a whole in the ground. When you say all support the underlying theory well than I guess half of the world doesn't exsist to you, because that is close to the amount of people who have there own thoughts and opinions on this and do not agree with your so called underlying theory. You basically just insulted 20 different cultures and religions in less than 10 words
I do know you haven' got the slightest idea what the state of study on chimpanzee society is like. It's one thing to have an opinion, but to be wrong in your facts is inexcusable. And most definintly, ignorant. Also, attemping to use argument ad poplum is not very conducive when the pouplation you are referring to is also quite ignorant of the depth of scientific inquiry. Perhaps a trip to the library is in order? And read something peer-reviewed and recent.
I'm talking way more than a simple chimp I'm talking about alot of science "Theory". Talk about trip to the library. Have you read the bible? Have you sat around with people from all twenty religions I mentioned?
And again with the argument ad populem. It really doesn't matter what you say unless you can back it up with data. And as yet I see none. And the Bible? Please. The transcribed oral traditions of a bronze age herding culture may make a great cultural study, and maybe even some good archeology source material. But they are not now, nor ever, able to supplant a science textbook based on peer -reviewed data. More fail.
I've read into alot of science and people have tried to disprove god a thousand times over nothing has even come close to even shaking my belief and I don't think you're going to be the one to do it. What's so bad about the message of the Bible anyways. Love, Peace, Grace, all things that would make the world a better place. Call me crazy call me naive call me whatever It's my faith and you can't touch it
"What's so bad about the message of the Bible anyways?" And you tell me to read it? When I read it I find instructions for commiting genocide, murder of innocents, rape, destruction, intolerance. And you seem to gloss right over it. Which is fine with me. Believe what you will. The fact remains that you still can't provide one peer-reviewed piece of data to support your contentions regarding A. afarensis.
You know what? It's not for you to know or understand. Untill you fully and whole heartedly want to come to god I can't tell you about it. It's not my job. It's not for you to bare.
" It's not for you to know or understand." Well that's yet another totally nonsensical statement you've made. The whole point of science is to come to an understanding of the universe. Religion tells you to give up and accept this piece of superstion as truth. Forget it. Bronze age fairy tales do not stand in the light of knowledge. And while you are apparently are conceding the debate since you cannot respond to any of my postings with real data, you show the future of the YEC: extinction!
And that's why you've lost the debate. No data, no discussion. Simple acceptance in the face of fact. A real sign of a delusional process known as monotheism. Magic man in the sky may once have been a legit excuse based on the limits of our knowledge. But not anymore. The atom has been split, we've been to the moon, and we've opened the human genome for all to see. No more fair tales. And by the way the word is spelled "bear" for that context.
I'mprobably one of the more stubborn people in the world and I stopped debating to save you a headache. Look champ I could argue my point till the second coming but it won't convince you of anything because you have your belief I'm cool with that I don't need everyone to believe what I do just to feel better about myself, unlike some. And with the personal attacks yeah umm that's not debating that's actually quite week. (and I really think my spelling is a little off topic don't you? )
It's unfortunate that you think I'm conducting ad hominem attacks against you. My target is not you but rather your lack of data regarding this issue and the obvious inaccuracies of the data that you did bring to the table. And spelling does count as it directly reflects the mind and it's ability to cogently argue a point. if you can't take the time to spell correctly, why should anyone take the time to read you, or give weight to what you have written? If only I had a spellcheck on this browser
Who are you trying to convince? Me? Or you? Ok lets start with something new you will probably back this theory too because you're probably one of those people. The Big Bang "THEORY". What's your opinion on this subject?
I don't give a tinker's damn about trying to convince you of anything. My audience expects me to examine critically any data that I come accross and to hold to account anyone who makes statments not based in fact. And thus far, I've yet to see you produce one single shred of data to support your position. And you are trying to change the subject. In case you seem to have forgotten this is a thread regarding human origins. My commentary will therefore be on subject. How about you?
I gave you data when I told you to read the science of god. It pretty much says what I want to say about science. That was MY original arguement. I was talking about science in general
So yet another misconception revealed. Science, in the widest sense, is an exploration of that natural world and all it's interrelationships. Superstition, mysticism, and/or religion is the examination of the supernatural, and as such lies outside the realm of what science can examine. Trying to mix one with the other is yet more fail. Like I said, the bible makes a decent cultural study and some archeological source matter. but fails most everywhere else. Superstion isn't real science.
Tell you what though. I'm feeling kind of generous today so I'll give some real help. If you truly wish to debate the science behind paleoanthropology, molecular biology, or another science related to evolution, you need to find some good Kent Hovind videos and watch those. Of course, none of those can supplant a real education and the study of peer reviewed papers. Search NCBI with the right keywords and you will find a true treasure trove of data.
i don't see why it has to be a matter of right and wrong I really don't. You don't know how to have a constructive conversation. You don't want to know where the other person is coming from you just want to feel the security in science. That's the problem with scientist it's not the science it's a personally issue, they don't feel comfortable without a complete and full answer to everything. Well sorry but there isn't an answer to everything. I'm out this isn't going anywhere.
"I'm out this isn't going anywhere." You mean it isn't going the direction you want. You make statements saying that AL 288-1 is a monkey. That chimpanzees live in this "peacable kingdom" of coexistance with each other. All of these are incorrect. When asked to provide data to support your postion you go off on a tangent or try to change the subject. If you don't believe in or can't support your postion, dont comment. I can back up everything I say with real data. Not speculation.
The real point I was trying to make about chimps is that if they are our ancestors and have any kind of intelligance level they probably wouldn't want to be related to us. And for data well I'm a seventh day adventist and I can tell you that there are millions of us christians throughout the world. and numbers don't lie. so do you think that all of us are just foolhardy. Not likely. There is eveidence of the flood all over the world. And scientific proof of many of things that happen in the bibl
Ah, now we're getting to the root. Chimps are not our ancestors. Humans and P. troglodytes do share a common ancestor and as such have many common genes. Hence the 98% chimp argument. Additionally, another ad populum argument based on the number of christians is entirely irrelevant. The one that does work is the number of professionals in the life sciences fields who do ascribe to evolution. And that number is well below 1% since a 1991 Gallup poll. Overseas, the number is even less.
You know what? I have my faith and I'm happy with it I don't need to prove it to anyone. I think it's cool you have a passion. I think if you have a passion go whole heartedly into it and I am a whole hearted christian. Lets just agree to dissagree
last year I went to Paris, the first day I went to university's road I saw there François Bayrou, the second day I went to the museum of natural history, I saw Lucy, the third day I went to Beaubourg, I saw there Jacques Chirac. Who is Georges Pompidou ? who will be the next President ?
3 million years old using "reference fossils" that science don't know how old are but guess anyway. Reference fossils have been disproved because of species being found alive (primarily fish).
I understand that the vulga angle for the knee is identicle to an orangutan which does not walk upright? The pelvis was modified with power tools to resemble a humans but originally was like a chimpanzee's and the Latoli foot prints are human but the australopithecines have chimp feet not human. Other than those minor problems its great evidence not quite as good as Piltdown man. Hey they call it science so it must be.
No orangutan do not have a vulga knee. The pelvis of Lusy was modified with power tools to show what it would have looked like in life. There are other pelves found that show that they were right. the Latoli foot prints were not made by humans; the great toe is to divergent. and you are just wrong about the australopiths feet looking like a chimps, they look in between humans and chimp. their toe bones are shorter and less curved. Their foot fits perfectly into the Latoli prints.
If you know of an Australopithecus specimen with the pelvis like the modified one where is it? As far as the Laetoli foot prints go they are indistinguishable from man and absolutly nothing like any Australopithecus what so ever, other Australopithecus phalanges are even MORE curved than a typical chimpanzee's are. Read Stern and Sussmans, and or Dr Oxnards findings. Lucy is worse than piltdown man and nebraska man as they should no better, but propaganda works because people won't check.
You can go to wiki and get several of the specimens of A. afarensis. It is not as if they are hiding this information from the public. They are not indistinguishable from a man footprints, I doubt you have ever seen them if you think that. Moreover, if you do think that than are like modern humans, than you have never had any training in anatomy.
Dr. Susmen, Dr. Stern, and Dr. Oxford all agree that it was a biped, so what is you point by reading them. None of them has said that its phalanges are more curved than a modern chimp. Dr. Susmen and Dr. Stern point out those A. afarensis phalanges are right in between modern humans and chimp. They are longer than modern human but not as long as chimps and more curved than modern humans but not as curved as ours. Your ignorance of the facts does not change them.
Her name is not Lucy. The locals wanted the name "Dinkinesh" that night. These whites stole an African treasure and gave if a European, forieng name. Please make your correction. The name is Dinknesh, not Lucy. Dinknesh means "Magnificent"
Noahs ark has never been found and Sodom is speculation, lots of cities have burned down human history. Also The place were "The Ark" was found is a glacier that moves a few feet a day. Even If there was something up there it would have been brought down by the glacier.
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dltanner99 11 months ago
Like the man said, irrational ideas cannot be dispelled by rational means. Belief without evidence cannot be refuted by evidence.
To a creationist, the very existence of evidence for evolution is proof of fraud. In the twisted, demon-haunted world they live in, the evidence must have been forged. Since a creationist can think only in terms of religious dogma, the scientists must be doing this because they are followers of a false religion.
Here, we see that mindset in action.
puffin02 11 months ago 2
Hmm, have they tried to do any attempt to do a brain map on Lucy by using skull measurements? They can compare it to measurements of humans and apes and even determine by the structure if she walked upright or was mostly a tree dweller. The bones can only tell us so much. Looking at bones is all about interpretation and comparisons. Having a partial skeleton is one thing, but a whole skeleton is more telling. Hope they find a whole one!!
missinformed99 1 year ago
I imagine her skull pieces have received about as much scrutiny as is possible to science. It is almost guaranteed that a dissertation written on such an aspect of her skull (and the others of the same species that have been found) will qualify as great doctorate level material, and probably has.
puncheex 1 year ago
And "troll-boy?!" is that the best you can do?!, what are you like 8?, my 6 year old niece can do better than that!, thats just woeful!, its like calling someone poopoo head!, i should send you some actual insults to use on me before any data, you really do suck!.
Aheadstix85 2 years ago
Just look on the net under "lucy" fraud fool!, there your data, now stop denying it!.
Aheadstix85 2 years ago
If you can't site the record, then it never happened. Croaking that it is a fraud is evidence of nothing but faith in some other crackpot, and is most certainly not evidence.
puncheex 1 year ago
Pfft!, so?, we can also teach em sign language aswell!, does not make em human though!, and did you know that human are the only species that can associate music with rythm??, chimps cannot, this has been scientifically proven!!, so how the hell are we related to them??.
Aheadstix85 2 years ago
@Aheadstix85: And one more time, stop spamming my page. If you can't face me with data here, then go crawl back under the rock that crawled off you troll-boy. Grown-ups are talking here.
magick205 2 years ago
Im gonna call your bluff mate!, your just running cos ya got nothing!, she was a fake, they debunked her!, deal with it, just another dead end for evolution.
Aheadstix85 2 years ago
@Aheadstix85: Always with the mysterious they. More YEC BS. Put a name and citation to the story or bugger off. We've even got publically available CAT scans for free review, not to mention the University of Texas elucy site where you can directly compare the major elements of AL 288-1 with both H. sapiens and P. troglodytes and see the transitons yourself. What have you got? "They". My ass. You've got jack, and best of all you know it.
magick205 2 years ago
Lucy was bullshit!, tey faked her, its a proven hoax, same as any of the so called "ape man".
Aheadstix85 2 years ago
@Aheadstix85: More troll bullshit. It's called proof. You have none other than your statement. Big whoop.
magick205 2 years ago
@Aheadstix85: Said this before, say it again. Put your weak ass statements here, not on my page. And at least try to back them up with some real data. You're blocked until you can learn the rules of the game and stop spamming my page. I won't put up with nonsense.
magick205 2 years ago
These bones were found scattered on the
surface of the ground. How can they be
millions of years old?
Quickened4e 2 years ago
@Quickened4e: They were not found just lying on the surface. They were partially embedded in the soil surface. This particular paleosol was found between two ash horizons from local volcanos. These were dated by the K/Ar method and returned an age in excess of 3 million years. It's all very carefull spelled out in Johansen's book and in all the papers that stemmed from this find. Anything else I can help you with?
magick205 2 years ago 2
Scientists don't use x-ray vision or seismology to find fossils. The only way to find them is when they erode out of the soil and become visible to a trained person walking by. No magic allowed. A complete Ardipithecus skeleton could be buried a foot underneath a paleo's tent, and it won't get discovered until a storm runs a gully-washer down the path and brings a bone to the surface. That means that new fossils might be found in the same place next year, and also that finds are very rare.
puncheex 1 year ago
So let's see what cool has in his bag of tricks?:
watch?v=Yety93hLtys&NR=1
watch?v=j7GZCgjE2H0
watch?v=9YjU2nWhAk8
And a couple of links to whackaloon sites that make a lot of claims and yet provide no data. Sorry cool, you fail. I've already wiped the floor with jazzyhap and ikester over the model of AL 288-1 in the St. Louis science center, and if need be I'll do the same with you here. Additionally, the Laetoli arguments are easily covered. But I'll let you try to dig yourself out. Try.
magick205 2 years ago
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magick205 I am sure you have wiped the floor with no one you ignore evidence brought to you, you want evidence brought by people in your own religion, The evolution religion of lies usuals those fake scientists arent stupid enough to admit they are lieing and faking making up evidence. Evidence is nothing but a scam fake scientists lie get grants get donations get lots of money continue to lie and brainwash kids when evidence comes in proving it wrong they ignore it. Your blinded by your faith
coolvideo28 2 years ago
@coolvideo28:"Your blinded by your faith " Project much there cool? Let's what else you got in your argument? Hmm. Conspiracy theory about fake scientists? Well that's really kind of batshit crazy, but we'll examine one: Dr. Donald C. Johanson: earned his bachelor's degree from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign in 1966. He earned his master's degree in 1970 and his PhD in 1974 from the University of Chicago. (continued)
magick205 2 years ago 2
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I havent asked about AIG because I already know you act like you are above me smarter then but truth is I could teach you soo much but you are set in your ways you are being greatly decieved andd dont even know it. as far as AIG is conserned you want to find curoption AIG is just 1 of many follow the money and you will find alot more then AIG
coolvideo28 2 years ago
@coolvideo28: Follow the money? Good idea. Let's look at old buddy Ken Hamm's little outfit. These are 2008 figures mind you. He rakes in a reported $162,000 per year. That's reported income and not any perks or extras that would otherwise be unreported. The organization makes almost a million a year. Not bad in a state where the median income is about $37000.
magick205 2 years ago
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Ok and how much does richard dawkins make per year scaming people getting new believers for his faith the evolution religion of lies. If we were following the Money and were the Big money is going we could spend 10 years working are way down and never get near Ken Hamm but God bless him for spreading the truth
coolvideo28 2 years ago
@coolvideo28: And again you (and everyone else who's reading this) will note that I'm providing clear and publically availble data. All my statements are based on clear facts and not on opinion. This is the difference between real science and the psuedoscience called Creationism/ID. We back up what we say.
magick205 2 years ago
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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God
John 3:16-18
coolvideo28 2 years ago
@coolvideo28: And this is how I know I've won. When my opponent is reduced to the point of babbling bible verses. I think it's at this point you're supposed to whip out Pascal's Wager and threaten me with Hell? Or did you miss that part of the script? And much evidence? A couple of YT videos? And conspiracy theories with wackaloon websites? Here's how to refute an argument: Provide a citation to a peer-reviewed journal or other freely available source. Anything else is just your opinion.
magick205 2 years ago 2
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magick205 You bring no evidence to the table... Nothing you ignore the evidence I bring you because your faith is so great in the evolution religion of lies. There is nothing more true then Gods word thats why I show you the Word. I will pray for you you arebrainwashed by the evolution religion and refuse to see the truth even when its right in front of your face. If you actualy searched for the truth it would lead you to the Bible
coolvideo28 2 years ago
@coolvideo28: "Nothing you ignore the evidence I bring you because your faith is so great in the evolution religion of lies." Bullshit. A handfull of YT videos that you don't even try to address is not evidence. And I have no "faith' in evolution. I see it everyday and can see the evidence myself. Your "faith", which is belief in the absence of evidence BTW, is on nothing you have ever seen yourself. Were you there?
magick205 2 years ago 2
DUDE, your Bible is fucking BULLSHIT. WAKE the fuck UP.
lotanddaughters 2 years ago 4
Read the Bible and you will get a real education. until you learn the truth of the Bible you dont have a clue of what is going on on this earth and what is going to happen
coolvideo28 2 years ago
@lotanddaughters Evolution is BULLSHIT!!!!!!, evolution is true delusion, wak up yourself, Lucy is a fake!, and it was proven so stick that up ur arse!.
Aheadstix85 2 years ago
@lotanddaughters This was found to be a lie!, Lucy is a fake, deal with that!.
Aheadstix85 2 years ago
Type "smoking chimp" in the YouTube search bar. There you will find one of your relatives smoking cigarettes in a South African zoo.
lotanddaughters 2 years ago
@coolvideo28:(continued) In 1974, at the time of the discovery of Lucy, he was an assistant and associate professor of anthropology at Case Western Reserve University. Johanson also holds an honorary doctorate from Case Western Reserve University.[1] In 1981, he established the Institute of Human Origins in Berkeley, California which he later moved to Arizona State University in 1998. He was awarded an Honorary Doctorate by Westfield State College in 2008. And you have? Kent Hovind?
magick205 2 years ago 2
@coolvideo28: Kent "Jailtail" Hovind: In 1971 he graduated from East Peoria Community High School in East Peoria, Illinois. From 1972 until 1974 Hovind attended the non-accredited Midwestern Baptist College and received a Bachelor of Religious Education (B.R.E.). In 1988 and 1991 respectively, Hovind was awarded a master's degree and doctorate in Christian Education through correspondence from the non-accredited Patriot University in Colorado Springs, Colorado (continued)
magick205 2 years ago
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why do people go to non acredited Schools... I am going to 1 for one of my degrees, I am going to school for Psychology but if I go to an acredited university I cant use the Bible I have to counsel people for things I think are wrong, I have to learn about people are completly wrong about everything ex. sigmon frued at the secular college Iam going to I had to take psychology and they admit all there practices were proved wrong or in other words I want an education not an uneducation
coolvideo28 2 years ago
@coolvideo28: No, you are going to one because they want your money and you obviously cannot be troubled with actually learning anything. Look back across all your posts. Crappy spelling, piss poor grammar, and no real argument or data to speak of? The best way you can help people is to get a real, intense education and a real school where you learn things that just might challenge what and why you think about the world the way you do.
magick205 2 years ago
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magick205 Thank you I can always tell when I am winning when the other person is realizing they are wrong they run scared from the argument and start talking about grammer. I am not writing an essay I am responding to many many people I quickly answere and move on to next person Iam debating you have brought nothing to the table I have brought you much evidence you ignore it a reral scientist would way all evidence you denie it before even hearing it, This is why you are in denial about God
coolvideo28 2 years ago
@coolvideo28:However, Patriot Bible University is a diploma mill, as it has unreasonably low graduation requirements, lack of sufficient faculty or educational standards and a suspicious tuition scheme.The school's current policies allow students to attain bachelor's degrees, master's degrees and even "Doctor of Ministry" degrees in months, rather than years, for as little as $25 per month. Currently Patriot offers a monthly fee, unlike most universities, which only charge per-credit fees.
magick205 2 years ago
@coolvideo28: So cool, shall I continue? I can review Behe, Baugh, Dembski, or any other so-called "creation scientist" (GAKKK, that's two words that don't go together), as anyone with real, professional credentials have them available for public inspection. Now, if you want to discuss money, we can always look AiG's finanical statement and see who's really raking in the dough.
magick205 2 years ago
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Scientists that want a real education dont want to get low grades for telling the truth cant go to secular universitys were if scientists even mention evolution might be wrong they loose there tenur or just get fired. Anywere even Big name schools today require you to be indoctrinated in the evolution religion and If you are a real scientist that follows the truth were ever it goes you get fired because your not following the evolution religion so they have to go to Christian schools
coolvideo28 2 years ago
@coolvideo28: More conspiracy nonsense. I sure hope you don't have access to either firearms or other sharp objects. In any event, you need to provide proof for your claims. Which you thus far cannot, or will not provide. Now, even "Christian schools" have syllabi and standards for instruction that must be followed in order for them to be accredited. The only place that a Hovind or Baugh could go is a crappy diploma mill. Notice you haven't asked about AiG's finances. Worried?
magick205 2 years ago
You know what I've never understood? If the remains were found in Ethiopia why give a European name to the bones?
Lucy? Sounds real Ethiopian to me!
orasis 2 years ago
I agree, but it was to do with the Beatles song Lucy in the sky with diamonds.
peterdelane 2 years ago
@orasis: She doensn't have a name per se, only catalog number AL 288-1. She does have two popular names. Lucy (of course) from the Beatles song that was playing, and her Amharic name: Dinkenesh (meaning "you are beautiful).
magick205 2 years ago
Unlike the team that unearthed Ardi, which contained a number of Ethiopian and other African researchers, Johansen's team had none such; thirty years ago they were just not very common. In fact the name Ardipithecus is a combo of Afar and Greek roots meaning ground floor ape, and ramidus, Afar for root, so she is the root of the first apes, which is slightly wrong because Ardipithecus had been chosen some years before much was known about the animal's place on the tree.
puncheex 1 year ago
How does this have so many starys lucy was proved a fraud even evolutionists admit it now
coolvideo28 2 years ago
@coolvideo28: A fraud? OK, CITE IT! Make some accusations, provide some proof. Or simply be dismissed as yet another YEC crank. C'mon. Let's see whatcha got.
magick205 2 years ago
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magick205 I cant send liks here so I will send you a message with proof lucy is a fraud this goes for anyone else interested in knowing the truth. Just ask
coolvideo28 2 years ago
@coolvideo28: A link to another website is not proof unless it's to an open source and peer reviewed jouranl of professionals. You make a lot of noise, but when it comes down to presenting facts, you're all hat and no horse. And yes, you can post links. It takes two seconds if you replace the "." with "dot".
magick205 2 years ago
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lucy was disproved by scientist it was not a missing link
sharanprasanth 2 years ago
@sharanprasanth: What are you on about, dear boy? Please don't say the Rak et al paper, as it is certain, you've not really read it. But, I'm willing to indulge you. Please cite said peer-reviewed paper and source.
magick205 2 years ago
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Tyrannosaurus rex is apex predator,now they say it was primarily a scavenger.the scientist cannot able to find the well known creature with a number of specimen.how come you expect the person with few bones to be right.you believe in them just like creationist believe in creation.there is a long way to go.there are so many theories out there with believable proofs.there so many living organisms not yet discovered in this world.our science is mostly based on theories with few proven
sharanprasanth 2 years ago
@sharanprasanth: But that still doesn't address the claims you've made eariler, which is that afarensis is not a human ancestor. I'm more than willing to discuss the remainder of your claims, IF you will first address that first claim. If not, then I'll simply dismiss you and be about my business.
magick205 2 years ago
@sharanprasanth: How about it? Still waiting for any peer reviewed data whatsoever to support your specious claims.
magick205 2 years ago
This is rediculous. How are they aloud to say our ancesters like it's a fact. It's a theory and it's never been proven right. I hate when science does this. Lucy is a monkey.
A chimp never killed another chimp for money or women or food. A chimp never leaves there baby with another chimp to go away for long periods of time. A chimp doesn't find new and worse ways to polute the world. I don't think a chimp would want to associate itself as a relitive of a human.
hanhantheman 3 years ago
Actually, Lucy, like ourselves, was an ape. And chimps do make war on each other and kill each other for food. Do a little research on the Gombe chimps for a little more info. Also search for "genius ape" here on YT for a very good series on more recent studies.
magick205 3 years ago
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This is not fact it's theory. Nothing has ever proven it fully, nothing. Even you with your little facts can't argue that.
hanhantheman 2 years ago
Actually, it a very extensive collection of facts that all support the underlying theory. It's unfortunate that you can not or more likely, choose not to see the simple facts as they stand. Ignorance is one thing, willful ignorance is entirely another. It's fortunate that the future doesn't lie in your hands any longer. Coming here and making pronouncements on things you obviously don't understand or know gives you no creedence or authority at all. Sad, really. Not suprising.
magick205 2 years ago
Talk about making pronouncements, you just blatently told me I am ignorant and it's sad that I have an opinion. You don't know me from a whole in the ground. When you say all support the underlying theory well than I guess half of the world doesn't exsist to you, because that is close to the amount of people who have there own thoughts and opinions on this and do not agree with your so called underlying theory. You basically just insulted 20 different cultures and religions in less than 10 words
hanhantheman 2 years ago
I do know you haven' got the slightest idea what the state of study on chimpanzee society is like. It's one thing to have an opinion, but to be wrong in your facts is inexcusable. And most definintly, ignorant. Also, attemping to use argument ad poplum is not very conducive when the pouplation you are referring to is also quite ignorant of the depth of scientific inquiry. Perhaps a trip to the library is in order? And read something peer-reviewed and recent.
magick205 2 years ago
I'm talking way more than a simple chimp I'm talking about alot of science "Theory". Talk about trip to the library. Have you read the bible? Have you sat around with people from all twenty religions I mentioned?
The Science of God
Author - Schroeder
Take a trip to the library big guy
hanhantheman 2 years ago
And again with the argument ad populem. It really doesn't matter what you say unless you can back it up with data. And as yet I see none. And the Bible? Please. The transcribed oral traditions of a bronze age herding culture may make a great cultural study, and maybe even some good archeology source material. But they are not now, nor ever, able to supplant a science textbook based on peer -reviewed data. More fail.
magick205 2 years ago
I've read into alot of science and people have tried to disprove god a thousand times over nothing has even come close to even shaking my belief and I don't think you're going to be the one to do it. What's so bad about the message of the Bible anyways. Love, Peace, Grace, all things that would make the world a better place. Call me crazy call me naive call me whatever It's my faith and you can't touch it
hanhantheman 2 years ago
"What's so bad about the message of the Bible anyways?" And you tell me to read it? When I read it I find instructions for commiting genocide, murder of innocents, rape, destruction, intolerance. And you seem to gloss right over it. Which is fine with me. Believe what you will. The fact remains that you still can't provide one peer-reviewed piece of data to support your contentions regarding A. afarensis.
magick205 2 years ago 2
You know what? It's not for you to know or understand. Untill you fully and whole heartedly want to come to god I can't tell you about it. It's not my job. It's not for you to bare.
hanhantheman 2 years ago
" It's not for you to know or understand." Well that's yet another totally nonsensical statement you've made. The whole point of science is to come to an understanding of the universe. Religion tells you to give up and accept this piece of superstion as truth. Forget it. Bronze age fairy tales do not stand in the light of knowledge. And while you are apparently are conceding the debate since you cannot respond to any of my postings with real data, you show the future of the YEC: extinction!
magick205 2 years ago
And that is why I can't tell you. Sorry
hanhantheman 2 years ago
And that's why you've lost the debate. No data, no discussion. Simple acceptance in the face of fact. A real sign of a delusional process known as monotheism. Magic man in the sky may once have been a legit excuse based on the limits of our knowledge. But not anymore. The atom has been split, we've been to the moon, and we've opened the human genome for all to see. No more fair tales. And by the way the word is spelled "bear" for that context.
magick205 2 years ago
I'mprobably one of the more stubborn people in the world and I stopped debating to save you a headache. Look champ I could argue my point till the second coming but it won't convince you of anything because you have your belief I'm cool with that I don't need everyone to believe what I do just to feel better about myself, unlike some. And with the personal attacks yeah umm that's not debating that's actually quite week. (and I really think my spelling is a little off topic don't you? )
hanhantheman 2 years ago
It's unfortunate that you think I'm conducting ad hominem attacks against you. My target is not you but rather your lack of data regarding this issue and the obvious inaccuracies of the data that you did bring to the table. And spelling does count as it directly reflects the mind and it's ability to cogently argue a point. if you can't take the time to spell correctly, why should anyone take the time to read you, or give weight to what you have written? If only I had a spellcheck on this browser
magick205 2 years ago
Who are you trying to convince? Me? Or you? Ok lets start with something new you will probably back this theory too because you're probably one of those people. The Big Bang "THEORY". What's your opinion on this subject?
hanhantheman 2 years ago
I don't give a tinker's damn about trying to convince you of anything. My audience expects me to examine critically any data that I come accross and to hold to account anyone who makes statments not based in fact. And thus far, I've yet to see you produce one single shred of data to support your position. And you are trying to change the subject. In case you seem to have forgotten this is a thread regarding human origins. My commentary will therefore be on subject. How about you?
magick205 2 years ago
I gave you data when I told you to read the science of god. It pretty much says what I want to say about science. That was MY original arguement. I was talking about science in general
hanhantheman 2 years ago
So yet another misconception revealed. Science, in the widest sense, is an exploration of that natural world and all it's interrelationships. Superstition, mysticism, and/or religion is the examination of the supernatural, and as such lies outside the realm of what science can examine. Trying to mix one with the other is yet more fail. Like I said, the bible makes a decent cultural study and some archeological source matter. but fails most everywhere else. Superstion isn't real science.
magick205 2 years ago
Tell you what though. I'm feeling kind of generous today so I'll give some real help. If you truly wish to debate the science behind paleoanthropology, molecular biology, or another science related to evolution, you need to find some good Kent Hovind videos and watch those. Of course, none of those can supplant a real education and the study of peer reviewed papers. Search NCBI with the right keywords and you will find a true treasure trove of data.
magick205 2 years ago
i don't see why it has to be a matter of right and wrong I really don't. You don't know how to have a constructive conversation. You don't want to know where the other person is coming from you just want to feel the security in science. That's the problem with scientist it's not the science it's a personally issue, they don't feel comfortable without a complete and full answer to everything. Well sorry but there isn't an answer to everything. I'm out this isn't going anywhere.
hanhantheman 2 years ago
"I'm out this isn't going anywhere." You mean it isn't going the direction you want. You make statements saying that AL 288-1 is a monkey. That chimpanzees live in this "peacable kingdom" of coexistance with each other. All of these are incorrect. When asked to provide data to support your postion you go off on a tangent or try to change the subject. If you don't believe in or can't support your postion, dont comment. I can back up everything I say with real data. Not speculation.
magick205 2 years ago
The real point I was trying to make about chimps is that if they are our ancestors and have any kind of intelligance level they probably wouldn't want to be related to us. And for data well I'm a seventh day adventist and I can tell you that there are millions of us christians throughout the world. and numbers don't lie. so do you think that all of us are just foolhardy. Not likely. There is eveidence of the flood all over the world. And scientific proof of many of things that happen in the bibl
hanhantheman 2 years ago
Ah, now we're getting to the root. Chimps are not our ancestors. Humans and P. troglodytes do share a common ancestor and as such have many common genes. Hence the 98% chimp argument. Additionally, another ad populum argument based on the number of christians is entirely irrelevant. The one that does work is the number of professionals in the life sciences fields who do ascribe to evolution. And that number is well below 1% since a 1991 Gallup poll. Overseas, the number is even less.
magick205 2 years ago
As far as flood arguments? Bring 'em on. I can debunk em' as fast as you try to type 'em.
magick205 2 years ago
You know what? I have my faith and I'm happy with it I don't need to prove it to anyone. I think it's cool you have a passion. I think if you have a passion go whole heartedly into it and I am a whole hearted christian. Lets just agree to dissagree
hanhantheman 2 years ago
Lady paleontologist explains transitionals .Video paleo lectures added monthly/ bi monthly.
"Transitional Fossils in Evolution pt. 1 of4"
flyingscience 3 years ago
last year I went to Paris, the first day I went to university's road I saw there François Bayrou, the second day I went to the museum of natural history, I saw Lucy, the third day I went to Beaubourg, I saw there Jacques Chirac. Who is Georges Pompidou ? who will be the next President ?
notrecoeurasaraison 3 years ago
i saw this video in 6th grade
i still remember it. Like, she was walking around at night near a lake, collasped and she kind of drowned.
something like that; i know she died in a lake though.
SweeneyToddFan12 3 years ago
this is sooooo wrong. there mixing facts around. and btw the fossil was named lucy because of the song playing on the radio whilst they excavated.
Bezza5000 3 years ago
3 million years old using "reference fossils" that science don't know how old are but guess anyway. Reference fossils have been disproved because of species being found alive (primarily fish).
gandolf99 3 years ago
I understand that the vulga angle for the knee is identicle to an orangutan which does not walk upright? The pelvis was modified with power tools to resemble a humans but originally was like a chimpanzee's and the Latoli foot prints are human but the australopithecines have chimp feet not human. Other than those minor problems its great evidence not quite as good as Piltdown man. Hey they call it science so it must be.
Jamesbowman777 3 years ago
No orangutan do not have a vulga knee. The pelvis of Lusy was modified with power tools to show what it would have looked like in life. There are other pelves found that show that they were right. the Latoli foot prints were not made by humans; the great toe is to divergent. and you are just wrong about the australopiths feet looking like a chimps, they look in between humans and chimp. their toe bones are shorter and less curved. Their foot fits perfectly into the Latoli prints.
jebus6kryst 3 years ago 2
If you know of an Australopithecus specimen with the pelvis like the modified one where is it? As far as the Laetoli foot prints go they are indistinguishable from man and absolutly nothing like any Australopithecus what so ever, other Australopithecus phalanges are even MORE curved than a typical chimpanzee's are. Read Stern and Sussmans, and or Dr Oxnards findings. Lucy is worse than piltdown man and nebraska man as they should no better, but propaganda works because people won't check.
Jamesbowman777 3 years ago
You can go to wiki and get several of the specimens of A. afarensis. It is not as if they are hiding this information from the public. They are not indistinguishable from a man footprints, I doubt you have ever seen them if you think that. Moreover, if you do think that than are like modern humans, than you have never had any training in anatomy.
jebus6kryst 3 years ago 7
Dr. Susmen, Dr. Stern, and Dr. Oxford all agree that it was a biped, so what is you point by reading them. None of them has said that its phalanges are more curved than a modern chimp. Dr. Susmen and Dr. Stern point out those A. afarensis phalanges are right in between modern humans and chimp. They are longer than modern human but not as long as chimps and more curved than modern humans but not as curved as ours. Your ignorance of the facts does not change them.
jebus6kryst 3 years ago 5
Her name is not Lucy. The locals wanted the name "Dinkinesh" that night. These whites stole an African treasure and gave if a European, forieng name. Please make your correction. The name is Dinknesh, not Lucy. Dinknesh means "Magnificent"
lamrof 3 years ago
Stop spamming fuckface. Thank you for your cooperation.
Clausfarre 4 years ago 2
Acorvettes, I love your videos! Thanks for uploading them and I hope you upload more!
comodocomodos 4 years ago
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lol scientist come all that way for a fucking monkeys knee
YET
when Noah's ark is discovered, or Sodom the city destroyed by God ABSALOUTLY nothing is said! strange is it not?
andylikesmanu 4 years ago
Noahs ark has never been found and Sodom is speculation, lots of cities have burned down human history. Also The place were "The Ark" was found is a glacier that moves a few feet a day. Even If there was something up there it would have been brought down by the glacier.
Acorvettes 4 years ago 2
@Acorvettes i'd like to add that Noah's Ark is also a rip off of the flood story found in the Epic of Gilgamesh
MichaelLucky 4 months ago
"lol scientist come all that way for a fucking monkeys knee"
Your post has me baffled, you seem to be a creationist with no understanding of the subject you blunder blindly into! How rare.
KennyTew2 4 years ago
@andylikesmanu lol you are so retarded
superchickenboy2 4 months ago
Awesome.
alienspy07 4 years ago
Thank you for the video!!
KT45 4 years ago
No problem, hope you enjoy the others I will be uploading. I have a new one on how fossils are made and it uses Lucy as an example.
Acorvettes 4 years ago