RELIGIOUS HARDTALK JAMAICAN TV; ISLAM AHMADIYYA (Part 2/4)

[DRXCIX]

Only God can decide who is a Muslim, men cannot & should not make that call. However, the major issue I have with the Muslims on this video is that they spoke as if the different communities of Islam (Sunni, Shi'ah, Ahmadiyya, NOI, etc.) are different religions; similar to how the different Christian religions are different religions. In Christianity, the different religions are different because they differ in their articles of faith & their fundamental religious beliefs, like: (See #2)

[DRXCIX]

(#2) The trinity concept, soul sleep, the Bible as literal or metaphorical, whether the 2nd coming has occurred, the necessity of baptism, Jesus as God or the Son of God, who to pray to, which Bible to accept, etc. The different communities of Islam do not differ in their articles of faith or their fundamental religious beliefs; they differ in political ways (like who should be the present day religious leader, who is or will be the present day Mahdi & Messiah, etc). (See #3)

[DRXCIX]

(#3) All Muslims & Muslim communities have the same Qur'an, the same tenants of faith & the same pillars of the religion. The different communities should never be compared to the difference in Christianity. Also, I have this minor pet peeve, that Jamaicans should dress like Jamaicans and not dress like Arabs or like the Prophet, they are Jamaicans and they should bring this culture to their Islam (See #4)

[DRXCIX]

(#4) If necessary, they should create their own clothing style, for example: linen or cotton matching shirt/jacket & pant set, matching pant & shirt suits similar to former president Maurice Bishop of Grenada, or jacket & pant suits similar to the west African safari suit - these are just suggestions.

[IslamAhmadiya]

@DRXCIX Correct brother, they are just suggestions. Holy Prophet (pbuh) never taught his companions to create a clothing style for themselves and to me if we try such a thing in this age, that will only be an innovation and it will NOT be Islam. Islam is only what Quran and the teachings of Holy Prophet have taught us. Nothing more, nothing less. Islam teaches us to be decent in the way we dress. Garment should serve the purpose of hiding our body properly and that is how we should dress!

[IslamAhmadiya]

@DRXCIX Religion literally is the "way of life". It is true that as Muslims belonging to different sects in Islam, we all claim to follow one Quran and one Sunnah, but the way we practice this religion is entirely different from each other. Pakistan/India is one example. Just see how certain sects like to even worship graves. The truth is that Islam in this age is only left in name and not in practice. It doesn't hold any value more than a religious tag in their lives...

[IslamAhmadiya]

...So the truth is that despite claiming to be belonging to same religion of Islam, our ways of lives are poles apart. Some Muslims consider Holy Prophet to be a mere human being like us, others consider him as a Noor (light) completely different from other human beings. Some consider Prophet Muhammad to be alive amongst us, others consider him to be dead like all other prophets of Allah. This is why we believe Allah has sent Imam Mahdi/Promised Messiah to remove misconceptions!

[IslamAhmadiya]

@DRXCIX A Muslim should have the right to wear whatever garment they like to wear. If the panel in this program chooses to wear something that is comfortable to them and is within the limits set by Islam, then no one should have any right to criticise it. I personally do not wear Arab attire, but I do not have any problem if somebody else likes it and chooses to wear it. It is not important how we choose to dress, it is what is in our hearts that is most important.

[DRXCIX]

@IslamAhmadiya I'm glad you understood my point about religious belief & the different Muslim communities in Islam. However, I tried to emphasize this point because many in the Christian community do not see Islam the way you explained, they like to compare the divisions in Christianity as being similar to the different communities in Islam and we know that there is no comparison. This comparison occurred in this video & it was not corrected, this is what concerned me. (See #2)

[DRXCIX]

(#2) I disagree with the issue on clothes because different Muslim communities will always have different cultures & customs regarding clothing since so many things affect the type of clothing worn by each community. The most significant is the wealth of the community but geography, climate, time period & technological advances have a significant impact on dress style & material used. (See #3)

[DRXCIX]

(#3) For example, a Muslim Senegalese dress style is much different than a Japanese or Thai Muslim or a Myan or an Eskimo Muslim and they are all customs of their own local habitat, morays & technology and all look well. I agree that individuals have the right & a choice in clothing style but if you are wise and want the community not to be alienated by your dress style, which may seem foreign to them, (See #4)

[DRXCIX]

(#4) I suggest dressing with a style that fits the community traditions, habitat, & customs but also fit Islamic requirements. The point is Jamaicans Muslims should look like Jamaicans. Jamaica has a proud tradition, culture & clothing style, which can be adjusted to Islamic requirements & worn proudly. What I saw look more like Arab style dress with some being African style which is a little more acceptable but still not Jamaican. This is to minor an issue not to adjust to.

[bedp1]

MR. JESUS IN INDIA?????? NO PROOF AT ALL.

[IslamAhmadiya]

@bedp1 Well there is enough evidence available for true seekers of truth showing Jesus' migration, life and demise in India. You wouldn't take my word for it, so here is this BBC documentary "Did Jesus Die?" on the topic for you: /watch?v=zqp2bgB5DmE

[bedp1]

@IslamAhmadiya no doubt muslims don't consider u muslims.

[IslamAhmadiya]

@bedp1 Does it matter if others consider us Muslims or not? It is Allah Almighty alone who has the right to make such Judgements. If it matters to you as to what they have to say about us, then you can keep following them. We will follow the teachings of Quran and our beloved Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in letter and spirit insha Allah.

[chaukange]

@IslamAhmadiya, why has it taken more than 1300 yrs before these theory of the death of jesus(pbuh)? meaning, the prophet(pbuh) and the swahaba(raa) never said anything about his death,you`ll never get any single sahih hadith over that,the only groups which believe that jesus(pbuh) died are ahmadiyyas and christians(with all due respect),even the shias who are more than right dont believe in that.All those imams(shaffi,hanbal etc) never said about the death,or were they liars?hope you c light.aa

[IslamAhmadiya]

@chaukange You have chosen to avoid the issue of "mutawafeeka". I have already explained to you from the verse of Quran that Jesus (as) is dead like all other prophets. The hadith mentioned in the same under 60 seconds video also confirms the death of Jesus (as). Christians believe that Jesus died on the cross and then came back to eternal life 3 days later. Ahmadiyya belief about Jesus breaks the very foundations of modern Christianity. Watch this BBC documentary and learn: /watch?v=zqp2bgB5DmE

[chaukange]

@IslamAhmadiya, our beloved prophet(saw) said` if you differ on anything go back to the holy quran,if you see any hadith which contradicts the verses of holy quran throw it against the wall`. why did muhammad(pbuh) never said or tell us anything about the death of jesus(pbuh)? Allah(sw) never said anything either about the death of jesus(pbuh),thats why i said you`re vetoing Allah(sw) and his prophet(saw),by the way, you ahmadiyya seems to know more than sahabas and all ullamaa(raa),peace bro..

[IslamAhmadiya]

@chaukange You are right, hadith has to be read in light of Quranic teachings. If "Mutawaffeeka" means "you took me up" in your dictionary brother, then why don't you give me a different reference from Quran where the same word of "Mutawaffeeka" or word from the same root means "you took me up". I need a reference of this where Jesus is not mentioned because those who have translated this word as "you took me up" have deliberately done it only because they believe Jesus is alive.

[chaukange]

@IslamAhmadiya,am sorry to say,but am begining to question myself over your knowledge of the holy quran,or maybe translation is the obstacle, instead of me being worried am sad about you bro,if i use the word brainwashed it may sound harsh but allow me to use the word programmed,follow the path of muhammad(pbuh) and you`ll see the light,how can you use suartul-maidah to justify the death rather than the raising of jesus(pbuh)?where`s the death of jesus(pbuh) in the holy quran?answer me please.

[IslamAhmadiya]

@chaukange Before saying anything further, kindly explain to us why you have chosen to translate that word into "You took me up". Also if this means "You took me up" what about the hadith in which Holy Prophet (pbuh) used exactly the same word for himself?

[chaukange]

ch5 vers 117-i said not to them except what you commanded me,to worship Allah,my lord your and your lord,and i was a witnes over them as long as i was among them,but when `YOU TOOK ME UP` you were the observer over them,and you are over all things witness. ver 118-if you should punish them, indeed they`re your servants,but if you forgive them,indeed it is you who is the exalted in might, the wise. That is suratil maidah(chapter-5) you`ve dissappointed me bro,may Allah(sw) forgive you,inshaallah.

[IslamAhmadiya]

@chaukange Kindly for the benefit of anyone who might visit this video and go through our conversation, type the exact Arabic word that you have chosen to translate as "YOU TOOK ME UP". I am still hopeful that you have only copied someone else' twisted translation and not done this purposely yourself. Read the exact word and then kindly come back to me. Do not accuse me of ignorance without doing any research on the subject yourself. A little advice. Watch that under 60 second video too.

[chaukange]

@IslamAhmadiya, thanks bro, it will be nice if you`re going to give me the vers(e)s rather than the link, why are you shying from giving me the verse(sura and aya number)? i want to read the holy quran in my own not being dictated, so , which sura and aya in the holy quran which says jesus(pbuh) died? it is so simple my bro and if you dont have, allow me to give you the verse which says that he was raised to Allah(sw) and he will return to dispute those claims and taste the death like everyone..

[IslamAhmadiya]

@chaukange I have nothing to shy away from my brother. I was of the impression that it wouldn't be difficult for you to look at that 60 seconds video and get the reference. Anyway, if it is difficult for you then read the verse of Holy Quran ch 5 verse 117/118. When Allah will ask him on the day of Judgement if he had told his followers to believe in Trinity. Jesus would say that he told them whatever it was revealed to him by Allah but when HE CAUSED HIM TO DIE, then He was witness over them.

[IslamAhmadiya]

...as far as the verse about "raising" of Jesus is concerned, it is raising of his spiritual rank, honour and status. You will have to answer many more questions if you believe that Allah is physically stationed somewhere up in the skies and a person needs to physically move to the heaven to be close to Him. When Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth, and He is even closer to jugular vein then one DOES NOT need to be raised physically to be close to Him.

[chaukange]

Thanks bro, but you havent given me the verse from the holy quran which says that jesus(pbuh) is dead or died, he was the prophet for banii-israel, he once said to the bani-israel, ` i`ve have so many things to tell you but you wont understand,a prophet will come and his name is mohammad,he will teach you many things`. so please give me the verse to justify that jesus(pbuh) died,if you refer to suratil-maryam then you`re wrong,coz there it says the day he will die not died,he`s alive and coming.

[IslamAhmadiya]

@chaukange Check the link again: /watch?v=Zcjqyp1Lhi4

That verse alone proves the death of Jesus (as). I am not talking about the verse that you are referring to. The verse you are referring to is a different one and a dialogue has been recorded in those verses. It has to be in present tense, go and read it in full context.

The prophecy of Holy Prophet in NT that you are referring to actually proves the death of Jesus (as). His teachings were relevant for his times, while Islam's forever!

[chaukange]

Kindly tell which verse in the holy quran which says jesus(pbuh) is dead/died. about metaphorical, muhammad(saw) died more than 1000 years ago before ahmadiyya/qadian, tell me about the swahabas,were they ahmadiyya too? if not,then it is an invented sect.Allah(sw) ordered us to say together under his one rope long before ahmadi,Allah(sw) said that` today your religion is completed`, gulam was not there,2nd coming of jesus(pbuh) is physical coz he aint dead yet.sorry for the later lets stick here

[IslamAhmadiya]

@chaukange Brother, if one claims that the sun rose from the west yesterday, then the burden of proof lies on his shoulders and on the one who believes and claims that sun always rises from the East. Anyway, watch my under 60 second series video on the topic. Link:

/watch?v=Zcjqyp1Lhi4

Jesus (as) was a prophet for the Israelites according to Quran and he died after completing his mission i.e. to pass message of God to the Jews of his time. The one awaited had to come in his likeness!

[chaukange]

ws,brother/sister islamahmadiya,Allah(sw)raised jesus(pbuh) to heaven not to india,one of the signs of qiyyamah is the coming of him,he will come back to taste death,thats the promise of Allah(sw),no prophets died twice,you said jesus(pbuh) was treated of his wounds by his disciple,thats why i said you cant treat someone who`s not injured or dead,they never crucified(injured)nor kill him,if we agree on these verse then jesus was never captured,thus, no torture,no injuries no death but raised.AS.

[IslamAhmadiya]

@chaukange You believe that Jesus was never even put on the cross, while I believe that he was certainly put on the cross but did not die of his injuries. He went into a state of swoon which was taken as his death by the onlookers. His closest disciples however treated his injuries in secret and he survived death on the cross hence not crucified. When Quran and hadith clearly declare Jesus (as) being dead, then how can Holy Prophet talk about his literal second coming? 2nd coming is metaphorical

[chaukange]

@IslamAhmadiya,thanks,Allah(sw­) clearly said,WAMA QATALUHU WAMA SWALABUHU(neither killed nor crucified),why are you saying `you cant however say that he was not even put on the cross`? to be on the cross is cricified.WALAKIN SHUBBIHA LAHUM, this can be translated as(it appeared to them so) meaning they thought.read suratul kaafi,they thought they slept for 1 day when they were asked but in reality it was hundreds of years,quran has no doubt in it,you cant treat someone who`s not injured nor dead

[IslamAhmadiya]

@chaukange Quran says wama qataluhu wama salabuhu (neither killed nor crucified) meaning Enemies' ATTEMPTS of killing Jesus either on the cross or otherwise were all unsuccessful. If an attempt is made to kill but the victim survives the attack, can you call such a person as being killed? No. You can not however say that even an attempt was not made. Similarly if an attempt to kill somebody on the cross fails, you can't call such a victim as being crucified. You can't deny the attempt either!

[IslamAhmadiya]

...as far as Shubbiha lahum is concerned, yes it was appeared to the onlookers as if Jesus had been killed on the cross, but Allah Almighty makes it clear in this verse that there impression was wrong. He was neither killed on the cross nor otherwise. How can one rule out natural death of Jesus (as) much later on in his life. There are recorded ahadith of Holy Prophet (PBUH) that clearly speak of Jesus' migration from one land to another. Even Quran talks about his refuge in green elevated land.

[chaukange]

With all due respect, i`ve never seen in my life a stupid and foolish muslim like this amir, he knows nothing about Allah(sw), prophets,islam and quran. Allah(sw) raised jesus(pbuh) to heaven not to india,he was never killed nor crucified, what a disgrace.

[IslamAhmadiya]

@chaukange Yes, according to Quran, Jesus was neither crucified (meaning he didn't die because of the injuries he suffered on the cross, you can't however say that he was not even put on the cross) nor was he killed by any other method. Quran says "Walakin shubbiha lahum" (and instead he was made to look like one i.e. dead). He went into a state of swoon which was taken as his death by the onlookers. Jesus was then treated by his disciples in hiding, and he then migrated from his land.