Just because I personally don't happen to believe in a "higher power" doesn't mean I don't "invest myself in a particular code of living." I volunteer almost as many hours a week than I work because I want the world to be a better place. Not because I think some deity is judging me.
wow! is that an image of Mecca. It looks beautiful. It must have changed a lot since Mohammed was alive. I had a vision from the god of turtles last night, he told me there is 1 god and no god and infinite gods. He told me all people are right and all people are wrong. He told me man was just a song he sang to please his brother
"Atheism, as a philosophical view, is the position that either affirms the nonexistence of gods[1] or rejects theism.[2] When defined more broadly, atheism is the absence of belief in deities,[3] alternatively called nontheism.[4] Although atheism is often equated with irreligion, some religious philosophies, such as secular theology and some varieties of Theravada Buddhism, also lack belief in a personal god." free encyclopedia
Don't forget in this, that I'm comming from your side of this, and I do feel bad for the religious folks who insist on a strict literal interprtation of the bible. I will say it's pretty clear those folks are building on quicksand, but as a counterpoint, I'd also afirm that based on analogy, as an exploration of human nature and for the principles of choosing well how to live and work as a society, religions have a fairly good solid base in reality (nothings perfect of course).
I'm not sure message boards are a very representitive cross section of any group of folks (may even be why I (wrongly) perceive athiest as being more interested in antagonism than rationallism). I'll also give tingtang a bone here, corrupt leadership, especially within in a top-down political/belief system can have dire consequenses. a stretch, but is that at the root of his evocation of comm/nazi in this particular debate?
If there are actons, principles or policies you feel are a burden on you rights, then address the issues, don't just say "they're all evil and stupid". If no one listens to you, it's likely cause you've never exhibited any respect for their position in the first place. does tingtang feel religion on the whole is as bad as Stalin and Hitler, otherwise why bring these figures to the table of debate? Unless that IS his stand, I don't even find it germain the the discussion.
Well, then yea, I don't see any problem with pointing out issues (although hard to imagine Nazism as a valid political system from the start, based on purposefully anti-social tennents, but sadly some $^%&'s do). Perhaps we've strayed a bit. I still believe if you don't know for sure yourself, sure, question all you like, but questioning and undermining are not the same, and it should be no wonder why it is not recieved well.
(500 words is difficult to work with). I guess what my problem is, is that no one seems satisfied to admit they don't know. But what' wrong with that? Why do we NEED to box this in? I don't see that proof of Gods existance is REQUIRED for a religious belief, nor should the lack of it undermine any religious organization. The problem comes when groups, (our own included) tries to delgitimize each other based on what they consider perceivable "truths". then everything goes to "hell".
You know what tingtang, Hitler and Stalin needed no religion to do what they did, fact is, they were essentially both athiests! So, obviously I utterly reject your thoughtless claim! There are bad actors under any banner, and folks like you who can be so easily labeled as direct threats are the perfect excuse for such a religious zealot to work his followeres to the extremes to defend "the Faith".
Hitler and stalin needed no religion because their ideologies worked LIKE religions. Blind faith, blind obedience, etc. I posted my list earlier, and unless you can argue against it, you are just ignoring the facts that don't match your opinions. Thus, your rejection is irrelevant since it is based on misinformation.
I'm a realist too, so I don't work in fantasy or the world of idealists. To me, seems like tingtangs is sure religious war is inevitable, afterall, no amount of browbeating with "facts" is going to change the "faithful". If so, you'd better get off your duff and shore up your numbers, instead of just blowing smoke. THEY are decades ahead of you on that point! Good luck, just keep me out of it, OK?
Faith and fact are copletely different things, on completely different planes. You just can't compare them, nor fight one with the other. I can't join you in your persuit, however, if you want to go after the religious version of what YOUR doing, like "Intellegent design" (trying to defend religious ideology based on "fact?, science?"), I'd be happy to lend a boot, to kick that stupidity back to the stone age and beyond!
Hitler was a Catholic , his birthday was celebrated every year in Catholic Churches in Germany .There was a religous motto on the SS uniform .Anti semitism was from their being Christian .There are videos on this subject on you tubes .
Mattduran06, I'm glad to hear that you don't bash (but look at the "athiest vids" here on the Tube, MANY consider themselves "warriors for the truth", and just as "in your face" as the fundamentalists. While I doubt there is a God, commiting to that idea wouldn't change the way I live my life, and frankly it isn't a purely defendable position either. I'd rather see rationallist and theists agree to disagree, not "duke it out" over an argument which is impossible to conclude.
As I stated you cannot prove that something doesn't exist. But when theists like to add specific descriptions to god you can point out the holes in their beliefs pretty easily. My main concern is not the belief in god itself, but what many theists do that to them is justified in the name of god.
sure, but if theists and atheists can agree to disagree, then i think there is no problem for people to have gods... as they also can agree to have different gods one would hope. even if all people were atheists they would still need to compromise on some major issues. like finding that empty space between their noses and fists.
"In your face": Agressive, name-calling ("bullshit", "stupidity"), adressing others not as a counterpoint, but an "enemy" to your beliefs. If Athiest are so intellectually "advanced", why not take the high road? Seems many who call themselves "athiest", actually WANT religious folks feel threatened by them.
I've been on many, many comment boards and i've seen countless atheists counterpointing theists arguments. What do they do? They ignore the counterpoint and continue to make more ridiculous claims. Also no one has ever said all atheists are intellectually 'advanced.' Anyone can say they are atheist for any reason without actually coming to a logical/thought-out conclusion (Kirk Cameron comes to mind).
Religious people feel threatened because their belief in god (which they sadly often base their lives upon) are being challenged and thats 'blasphemous.' As tingtangs stated above should we not dispute nazism or communism because nazis or communists feel 'threatened?'
Atheists who are in your face are in your face because they are sick and tired of people like you ignoring facts, ignoring their arguments, and basically ignore everything and pretend that nothing happened. Like mattduran06 said earlier.
Understand the point of the video, just correcting your statement about agnostics, Agnostics don't "believe" there is a God, we're just not arrogent enough to say we "KNOW" this to be true. I too don't care for athiests, because they INSIST there "IS" no God, and they do bash religious people for their beliefs. Because God can't be proven to exist, they think that proves that he doesn't, which is a logical falicy.
Its impossible to prove that something doesn't exist. You can only prove that something DOES exist. Because of this a lack of evidence for existence is all we can go on about anything. I, personally, have never went out of my way to bash a theist because of what they believed. I only come in defense when they patronize non-theists or others that don't believe in the same god they do. I also respond to generalizations about atheists like the ones you made above.
Nazism and communism both encourage persecution, whether persecution of a person's identity or of a specific race or religion of people.
Most (not all) religions encourage acceptance and basic humanitarian, wholesome interests. Some might use "cherry picked" quotes from religious texts to justify judgement and radical behavior, but most moderate religious people do not agree with their philosophies.
Persecute from Merriam- Webster online dictionary: "to harass or punish in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict; specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief."
You can bash it. I'm just implying that maybe a subtle, more logic based approach would be more effective than bashing or "moron"izing anyone who tries to argue with you. In other words, "selling" atheism might be better than shoving it down one's throat. Many find persistent evangelists irritating.
I'm an agnostic, and I DO have a problem with religious people! Agnostics don't make claims on the unknowable, and so don't risk turning a lie into a truth (or vise-versa). Religious people who have "faith" there is a God, and understand the unknowable state of God, and Athiest who do not have "faith" there is a God, are at least being honest, but both are making choices without adequate understanding. Those who claim to KNOW there is or isn't a God are simply delusional.
Actually faith in god is not, by definition, delusional, but lets not argue over semantics....I'm an atheist because there is no evidence for the existence of god and the 'evidence' that is there can easily be explained by some other means than god.
Everyone is agnostic whether or not they like it (unless of course, they were god), but with what we know and what has been observed you can make a reasoned decision. Aside from the fact that calling yourself agnostic is at least admitting that you don't have knowledge of god, it's just like calling yourself human.
actually being agnostic is just being a good scientist about god hypothesis... (i admit i'm one). people will always have some believes, there is no escape from it, you can not amputate your imagination and remain human. there were, are and will be scientists belonging to all kinds of religions. and who knows... perhaps some day thanks to scientific pursuit we will actually touch the ultimate... atm i'm comfortable with perceiving whole of universe as what some would call god.
I see god as a possibility, but when people start adding a specific definition/identity as what that is, I just have to point out the flaws. There is a book called God's Dust that has to do with the pov of the whole universe as god and it's pretty interesting. It's not to serious of a concept, but interesting to think about.
Yes for my older brother thats one of the main things that disgusts him about religious people. Many use it as an excuse and do not take responsibility for their actions and your vid summed it up very well.
It's too bad that 'lots of people believe it' is not a relevant or valid arguments. There are more christians than moslems, and christians have died by the millions throughout history (martyrs) throughout history.
Therefore, according to your logic, christianity is the truer religion.
Just because I personally don't happen to believe in a "higher power" doesn't mean I don't "invest myself in a particular code of living." I volunteer almost as many hours a week than I work because I want the world to be a better place. Not because I think some deity is judging me.
joshuaoha 10 months ago
ZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Judicial78 1 year ago
mashallah you should try voice over for documentaries :)
salam
MrRuggedboy27 1 year ago
What do you get when you cross atheist with Jehovah's Witness? People knocking doors with out anything to say.
SCAREDBANANA 1 year ago
wow! is that an image of Mecca. It looks beautiful. It must have changed a lot since Mohammed was alive. I had a vision from the god of turtles last night, he told me there is 1 god and no god and infinite gods. He told me all people are right and all people are wrong. He told me man was just a song he sang to please his brother
Pedronology 2 years ago
sept 11th religious intolorance day..Mostly ! guess what religion.
no1saphead 2 years ago
So in his holy name, you will kill all non-believers. Praise Alah... lmao.
AmazinKC 3 years ago
"Atheism, as a philosophical view, is the position that either affirms the nonexistence of gods[1] or rejects theism.[2] When defined more broadly, atheism is the absence of belief in deities,[3] alternatively called nontheism.[4] Although atheism is often equated with irreligion, some religious philosophies, such as secular theology and some varieties of Theravada Buddhism, also lack belief in a personal god." free encyclopedia
just to get the basic definitions right. ;-)
pikechris1 4 years ago
Interesting video...
Katalyzt
Katalyzt 4 years ago
Don't forget in this, that I'm comming from your side of this, and I do feel bad for the religious folks who insist on a strict literal interprtation of the bible. I will say it's pretty clear those folks are building on quicksand, but as a counterpoint, I'd also afirm that based on analogy, as an exploration of human nature and for the principles of choosing well how to live and work as a society, religions have a fairly good solid base in reality (nothings perfect of course).
RainbowMonkeeMittens 4 years ago
I'm not sure message boards are a very representitive cross section of any group of folks (may even be why I (wrongly) perceive athiest as being more interested in antagonism than rationallism). I'll also give tingtang a bone here, corrupt leadership, especially within in a top-down political/belief system can have dire consequenses. a stretch, but is that at the root of his evocation of comm/nazi in this particular debate?
RainbowMonkeeMittens 4 years ago
lol one reason it is perceived that way is that most atheists that don't have such a problem w/ religion would likely not post in the first place.
mattduran06 4 years ago
If there are actons, principles or policies you feel are a burden on you rights, then address the issues, don't just say "they're all evil and stupid". If no one listens to you, it's likely cause you've never exhibited any respect for their position in the first place. does tingtang feel religion on the whole is as bad as Stalin and Hitler, otherwise why bring these figures to the table of debate? Unless that IS his stand, I don't even find it germain the the discussion.
RainbowMonkeeMittens 4 years ago
The basics of religion are the same as communism and nazism:
- Dogmatic thinking
- Leaders that cannot be questioned
- Strict rules
- Making sure people stay on the "right path"
- Severe punishment if you stray from the "right path"
tingtangs 4 years ago
Well, then yea, I don't see any problem with pointing out issues (although hard to imagine Nazism as a valid political system from the start, based on purposefully anti-social tennents, but sadly some $^%&'s do). Perhaps we've strayed a bit. I still believe if you don't know for sure yourself, sure, question all you like, but questioning and undermining are not the same, and it should be no wonder why it is not recieved well.
RainbowMonkeeMittens 4 years ago
(500 words is difficult to work with). I guess what my problem is, is that no one seems satisfied to admit they don't know. But what' wrong with that? Why do we NEED to box this in? I don't see that proof of Gods existance is REQUIRED for a religious belief, nor should the lack of it undermine any religious organization. The problem comes when groups, (our own included) tries to delgitimize each other based on what they consider perceivable "truths". then everything goes to "hell".
RainbowMonkeeMittens 4 years ago
Point is, religion is evil. It encourages blind faith and blind obedience, which is bad.
tingtangs 4 years ago
You know what tingtang, Hitler and Stalin needed no religion to do what they did, fact is, they were essentially both athiests! So, obviously I utterly reject your thoughtless claim! There are bad actors under any banner, and folks like you who can be so easily labeled as direct threats are the perfect excuse for such a religious zealot to work his followeres to the extremes to defend "the Faith".
RainbowMonkeeMittens 4 years ago
Hitler and stalin needed no religion because their ideologies worked LIKE religions. Blind faith, blind obedience, etc. I posted my list earlier, and unless you can argue against it, you are just ignoring the facts that don't match your opinions. Thus, your rejection is irrelevant since it is based on misinformation.
tingtangs 4 years ago
I'm a realist too, so I don't work in fantasy or the world of idealists. To me, seems like tingtangs is sure religious war is inevitable, afterall, no amount of browbeating with "facts" is going to change the "faithful". If so, you'd better get off your duff and shore up your numbers, instead of just blowing smoke. THEY are decades ahead of you on that point! Good luck, just keep me out of it, OK?
RainbowMonkeeMittens 4 years ago
Faith and fact are copletely different things, on completely different planes. You just can't compare them, nor fight one with the other. I can't join you in your persuit, however, if you want to go after the religious version of what YOUR doing, like "Intellegent design" (trying to defend religious ideology based on "fact?, science?"), I'd be happy to lend a boot, to kick that stupidity back to the stone age and beyond!
RainbowMonkeeMittens 4 years ago
Hitler was a Catholic , his birthday was celebrated every year in Catholic Churches in Germany .There was a religous motto on the SS uniform .Anti semitism was from their being Christian .There are videos on this subject on you tubes .
flyingscience 4 years ago 2
Atheism also encourages blind faith and blind obedience. While there is no proof that there is a god, there is also no proof that there isn't.
Religious or nonreligious, you still end up with the same cyclical argument.
LightningBuggie 2 years ago
Atheism can't encourage blind faith and blind obedience because Atheism has no rules, no explanations, no anything.
Atheism is simply a lack of belief in God.
tingtangs 2 years ago
A lack of belief? Then wouldn't babies be atheists?
LightningBuggie 2 years ago
@LightningBuggie Indeed. We are all born that way.
theuglyrose 1 year ago
Mattduran06, I'm glad to hear that you don't bash (but look at the "athiest vids" here on the Tube, MANY consider themselves "warriors for the truth", and just as "in your face" as the fundamentalists. While I doubt there is a God, commiting to that idea wouldn't change the way I live my life, and frankly it isn't a purely defendable position either. I'd rather see rationallist and theists agree to disagree, not "duke it out" over an argument which is impossible to conclude.
RainbowMonkeeMittens 4 years ago
amen
jogayot 4 years ago
As I stated you cannot prove that something doesn't exist. But when theists like to add specific descriptions to god you can point out the holes in their beliefs pretty easily. My main concern is not the belief in god itself, but what many theists do that to them is justified in the name of god.
mattduran06 4 years ago
sure, but if theists and atheists can agree to disagree, then i think there is no problem for people to have gods... as they also can agree to have different gods one would hope. even if all people were atheists they would still need to compromise on some major issues. like finding that empty space between their noses and fists.
jogayot 4 years ago
What does IN YOUR FACE mean?
That they don't accept bullshit arguments?
That they point out stupidity in religion?
Please explain!
tingtangs 4 years ago
"In your face": Agressive, name-calling ("bullshit", "stupidity"), adressing others not as a counterpoint, but an "enemy" to your beliefs. If Athiest are so intellectually "advanced", why not take the high road? Seems many who call themselves "athiest", actually WANT religious folks feel threatened by them.
RainbowMonkeeMittens 4 years ago
I've been on many, many comment boards and i've seen countless atheists counterpointing theists arguments. What do they do? They ignore the counterpoint and continue to make more ridiculous claims. Also no one has ever said all atheists are intellectually 'advanced.' Anyone can say they are atheist for any reason without actually coming to a logical/thought-out conclusion (Kirk Cameron comes to mind).
mattduran06 4 years ago
Religious people feel threatened because their belief in god (which they sadly often base their lives upon) are being challenged and thats 'blasphemous.' As tingtangs stated above should we not dispute nazism or communism because nazis or communists feel 'threatened?'
mattduran06 4 years ago
Atheists who are in your face are in your face because they are sick and tired of people like you ignoring facts, ignoring their arguments, and basically ignore everything and pretend that nothing happened. Like mattduran06 said earlier.
tingtangs 4 years ago
Understand the point of the video, just correcting your statement about agnostics, Agnostics don't "believe" there is a God, we're just not arrogent enough to say we "KNOW" this to be true. I too don't care for athiests, because they INSIST there "IS" no God, and they do bash religious people for their beliefs. Because God can't be proven to exist, they think that proves that he doesn't, which is a logical falicy.
RainbowMonkeeMittens 4 years ago
Its impossible to prove that something doesn't exist. You can only prove that something DOES exist. Because of this a lack of evidence for existence is all we can go on about anything. I, personally, have never went out of my way to bash a theist because of what they believed. I only come in defense when they patronize non-theists or others that don't believe in the same god they do. I also respond to generalizations about atheists like the ones you made above.
mattduran06 4 years ago
Atheists bash RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.
Do you think it's a bad thing to bash NAZISM or COMMUNISM?
tingtangs 4 years ago
This argument makes atheists look very bad.
Nazism and communism both encourage persecution, whether persecution of a person's identity or of a specific race or religion of people.
Most (not all) religions encourage acceptance and basic humanitarian, wholesome interests. Some might use "cherry picked" quotes from religious texts to justify judgement and radical behavior, but most moderate religious people do not agree with their philosophies.
LightningBuggie 2 years ago
You are missing the point, you moron.
The point is that it is not necessarily wrong to bash something. If religion is evil, as it is, then it is RIGHT to bash it.
If you think people can't bash religion, then they can't bash nazism or communism either according to you!
Why are you defending nazism and communism?
tingtangs 2 years ago
Persecution=bad.
Persecute from Merriam- Webster online dictionary: "to harass or punish in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict; specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief."
You can bash it. I'm just implying that maybe a subtle, more logic based approach would be more effective than bashing or "moron"izing anyone who tries to argue with you. In other words, "selling" atheism might be better than shoving it down one's throat. Many find persistent evangelists irritating.
LightningBuggie 2 years ago
I'm an agnostic, and I DO have a problem with religious people! Agnostics don't make claims on the unknowable, and so don't risk turning a lie into a truth (or vise-versa). Religious people who have "faith" there is a God, and understand the unknowable state of God, and Athiest who do not have "faith" there is a God, are at least being honest, but both are making choices without adequate understanding. Those who claim to KNOW there is or isn't a God are simply delusional.
RainbowMonkeeMittens 4 years ago
Actually faith in god is not, by definition, delusional, but lets not argue over semantics....I'm an atheist because there is no evidence for the existence of god and the 'evidence' that is there can easily be explained by some other means than god.
mattduran06 4 years ago
Everyone is agnostic whether or not they like it (unless of course, they were god), but with what we know and what has been observed you can make a reasoned decision. Aside from the fact that calling yourself agnostic is at least admitting that you don't have knowledge of god, it's just like calling yourself human.
mattduran06 4 years ago
actually being agnostic is just being a good scientist about god hypothesis... (i admit i'm one). people will always have some believes, there is no escape from it, you can not amputate your imagination and remain human. there were, are and will be scientists belonging to all kinds of religions. and who knows... perhaps some day thanks to scientific pursuit we will actually touch the ultimate... atm i'm comfortable with perceiving whole of universe as what some would call god.
jogayot 4 years ago
I see god as a possibility, but when people start adding a specific definition/identity as what that is, I just have to point out the flaws. There is a book called God's Dust that has to do with the pov of the whole universe as god and it's pretty interesting. It's not to serious of a concept, but interesting to think about.
mattduran06 4 years ago
Atheists are making the only rational choice:
There is no evidence what so ever that there is a god.
There is plenty of evidence to suggest that there is no god.
But the latter is irrelevant, since the burden of proof is on he who claims that something exists.
So until it can be proven that God exists, the default position must be that he does not.
tingtangs 4 years ago
thats pretty much what i've been saying, but thanks for restating more clearly.
mattduran06 4 years ago
lol 'thou shall bash islam'
Ihavetopraiseyou 4 years ago
Sorry to burst your bubble, but atheism is the most expensive of them all. It means taking total responsibility for everything you do.
rozeboosje 4 years ago 8
haha, but thats not so bad is it?
mattduran06 4 years ago
Indeed it's not. It's the honourable thing to do.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Yes for my older brother thats one of the main things that disgusts him about religious people. Many use it as an excuse and do not take responsibility for their actions and your vid summed it up very well.
mattduran06 4 years ago
Thanks for responding!
I'll try to respond as soon as I can. I work 2 jobs so it may take me a few days. So give me some time. :)
Take care!
healthyaddict 4 years ago
Take your time and thanks for subscribing.
UltraBLACKKK 4 years ago
Well, you totally sold me on atheism.
allfyre 4 years ago
hahaha!
UltraBLACKKK 4 years ago
Very interesting response... Love your videos brother... JazakAllah.
shakirshuvo 4 years ago
JazakAllah Khair bro
UltraBLACKKK 4 years ago
It's too bad that 'lots of people believe it' is not a relevant or valid arguments. There are more christians than moslems, and christians have died by the millions throughout history (martyrs) throughout history.
Therefore, according to your logic, christianity is the truer religion.
tingtangs 4 years ago