@autoad zapruder was a white russian and i doudt that he was even there when it happened ,the kennedy death is a fabrication controled by the media from fort worth to parkland most photographs are fake and most of the footage it might sound far fetched but i have seen photos of jackie kennedy and jfk doubles as well as lee harvey and jack ruby doubles check out the time life covers of jfk most have been manufactured ,,,just like when lady di went to usa before her death ,,fakes and lies ..
More information is coming out all the time , mostly thanks to the freedom of information act. LBJ was a murderer and he murdered JFK to become president.
I have seen claims there is a document that proves Bush was there , as a CIA operative ,when JFK was murdered.
I just had to a book report on JFK, I use to think he was a hero but now I know the truth about him, i am dissapointed. JFK wasn't a good/smart guy his whole political career was based off his daddy spending millions to cheat for him in every election all the way from the House up until the Presidency. He was the most corrupt person and biggest fraud/cheater to ever become prez. Getting shot made people think it was because he was "good" when in reality it was because he was the exact opposite.
so why did JFK have to wait until 1965? He had plenty of reasons to pull out in 1963. Why did he carry out the coup if he was pulling out? JFK thought the troops would be out by 1965 because he thought the coup would be wildly successful. Look at his conversions with Lodge. So naive. They thought as soon as the new government was in place, the war would be won. When Taylor tried to explain to JFK that the coup would actually hurt the war, JFK couldnt comprehend that.
@045781 yeah, that kooky jfk actually thought that after his coup was pulled off, and Diem was out of the way, the war would be won in a few months, and then they could pull the tropps out by 65. How wrong he was. His coup put the burden of war squarely on the shoulders of our boys. What a shitstorm JFK created for us.
JFK knew the war was never going to be won and he never had intended for Diem to be killed. The Shitstorm was created by Johnson to line his pockets with cash.
@045781 yeah right. So why did JFK send 12,000 "advisors", way over the legal limit of 600? Why did JFK and Lodge discuss in a phone call how the war would be won in short order after his coup? Why did JFK tell reporters he didnt want to lose in Vietnam? Why did JFK brag about how he increased US troop strength in vietnam by thousands fold? He was never going to pull out in defeat. If you think he was planning to do so, then you obviously dont know much about the Kennedys.
Respond to this video...and JFK didnt even have a money motive. His pockets were already lined by mob money, and bootleg proceeds from the prohibition era. JFK's motive was always a craving for power, even thoough he admitted himself that he didnt know what to do once he won the electrions.
@Jellolion1 Your claims get more ridiculous by the moment. They're so petty, hateful, idiotic, & stupid that I'm not even going to bother with such a mental gnat as you. Rage on, you intellectual nullity. You're only making a bigger ass of yourself with each successive post. No one believes you. You're a fraud, a poser, an insignificant little psychotic, a self-destructive ambsace of a schmo.
@045781 Thanks for your post, but in truth, Jello-head is hopeless. He's either a shill paid to post garbage as part of the CIA's campaign to posthumpusly assassinate JFK, or more likely, just a hate-filled, misinformed, rightwing OCD lunatic oblivious to facts, the true historical record, & any other opinion beyond his own irrational hideous hatreds. He has been thoroughly refuted online before, but he's locked into his particular mental illness. But thanks, as others can check.
@WALRU11 careful now, you are going to pop a blood vessel. I know you get pissed off because I get all my facts from Kennedys papers in the national archives. Why dont you try to claim like your buddy, that the papers in the national archives are all fakes. Yes, its all one big conspiracy. All of Kennedys mumerous screwups can be traced back to plots by underlings. And the good natured Kennedy only fired one, the ambassador to Vietnam, Nolting, because he was opposed to the coup.
@Jellolion1 You don't get your claims from documents in the national archives. You have routinely ignored historical records in order to construct a massive fiction predicated on your hatred of JFK. If you actually bothered to research the Diem murder, you hopeless moron, you would have long ago come across Colonel Dunn's testimony that completely refutes your fantasies. It's a matter of public record, but you refuse to acknowledge it. You have never let facts sway you from your hated & bias.
@WALRU11 nothing is more ridiculous than the fucked up sorry excuses you come up with. Like the dog that ate the boys homework,JFK can take no blame for his screwups in office. And you even think the CIA is posthumously trying to defame JFK. That is just sad. What a twisted paranoid JFK apologist. Blame all of JFK's screwups on conspiracies.
@045781 JFK was in shock because he realized he was responsible for the death of a fellow catholic, and according to his religion, he would go to hell.
@Jellolion1 Piss off, you phony sanctimonious poser. JFK was in shock because he had personally ensured Diem's safe passage & was betrayed by his '52 & '60 political rival, Lodge. Now, You go to hell.
The ranch that LBJ lived in has never been open to the public. I doubt that he ever had a pic of Diem in his house, because LBJ only cared about himself and no one else. Show me a pic of Diem in his house, very unlikely......
I saw an interview of LBJ at his ranch in 1970. He had long hair. You dont know anything about LBJ. If he cared about nobody else, why did he push throiugh more civil rights legislation than any other president in history, and he was a southerner too. Why was he so concerned about poor people and the great society programs. You know nothing about LBJ.
The killing of Diem I will admit was something that JFK was responsible for even thought it was not his intention.
The war going to shit in a basket was not Kennedys worry, he just wanted out because he never did believe in the domino theory, that was Nixon who believe in that bullshit or so he said he did.
Nixon believed in the domino theory? The domino came from Kennedy people. MacNamara to be exact. Nixon wasnt that stupid. He wanted out of vietnam because he wanted to normalize relations with china. By the time Nixon was in office, everybody knew the domino theory was bullshit.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
JFK didnt care about the war.Another piece of shit from your else. JFK did virtually nothing else but plan his stupid coup the last 6 months of his life. He wanted to get rid of Diem and Nhu because they didnt want US troops in vietnam
@045781 thats funny he must have made promises to diems corpse agaisnt the wishes of jfk;s corpse... considering both men were both dead when johnson was in power. diem and his brother were killed 2weeks before jfk. jfk told diem he could get him outta the country that there was going to be a coup and diem refused. johnson tried to fake cables saying it was all kennedy but it didnt work
@pat442389 Johnson visited Vietnam while he was he was still Vice President. Johnson claimed that Diem was the new Churchill and like England during WWII the American Government would do anything necessary to support "democracy." Robert Kennedy sent cables to the US Embassy in Vietnam telling them to tell Diem that Johnson did not speak for the US Govt.
Yeah sure. JFK didnt care about losing vietnam to the communists. He did little else the last 6 months of his life other than plan that stupid coup. Thousands of pages of documents created. He thought the war would be won as soon as the new government took over. But you say he didnt care about vietnam. If thats the case, then a doctor would label him a sociopath.
Johnson had deep ties to Brown & Root construction since he stole the senate seat, he would sell them jobs. On the day Kennedy was to get a bullet in the head, Johnson was being impeached on corruption charges. The bullet in Kennedy's head enable Johnson to sell more work to Brown & Root in Vietnam.
Johnson was money big bucks in Vietnam, he was never trying to win any war in Vietnam.
so Johnson was actually impeached, and nobody knew about it. wow. I guess nobody read that story in the newspaper that day. A stealth impeachement. How novel.
There was an article about troops (victims) being out by 65 in Military newspaper "stars & strips" it is on the front cover. So JFK was pulling out. McNamara also said it, & McNamara quit while under Johnson because he knew it was a lost war. McNamara & Johnson always disagreed on how the war was going. If anything Johnson justed wanted to continue the war at all cost.
do you understand how rediculous it is. Bush stood on the aircraft carrier and declared victory in Iraq too. It is the same thing. There is no way any reponsible president could make a pronouncement on a policy without even knowing the circumstances. JFK had a hard enough time dealing with the present. Predicting what would happen 2 years in the future, after a coup he knew was just about to occur, and without knowing the outcome of that coup, would be plain irresponsible.
you are so wrong. LBJ hated the war. He said the war was destroying his great society plans and programs. He called his great society "a beautiful lady" that was being ruined by a bitch, the vietnam war. You just pull stuff out of your ass. LBJ liked the war, yeah , right.
JFK still had not changed his mind about troop withdrawl, because he did not believe in the domino theory. The war going bad was never an issue with JFK.
the war going bad was not an issue with JFK? Then why did he have 18000 troops there? Why did he need to get Diem out of the way? After Vienna, JFK said vietnam was the place where he would confront the soviets. If he didnt care, then he was either an idiot, or a sociopath.
Diem and Nhu were murdered on 1st November, 1963. The news reached Kennedy the following day. According to historian David Kaiser, Kennedy left the room in shock. He didn´t order the killing of Diem and Nhu. It was LBJ.
Of course he was in shock. He felt guilty. He was morally responsible for the death of a fellow catholic. Catholics are pretty serious about that stuff.
LBJ? That is such bullshit. A reporter interviewing LBJ in Texas after he was out of the white house, in 1970, spotted a photo of LBJ with Diem on the wall of LBJ's Texas house. The reporter asked LBJ why it was there. LBJ said he had developed a deep friendship for Diem, that Diem was a great man. Enough of your bullshit fairy tales. You are weak.
He didn´t order the killing of Diem and Nhu. It was LBJ. This is absolute bullshit. LBJ had a close personal friendship with Diem. Stop pulling stuff out of your ass.
Listen: LBJ and Nixon blamed JFK for the assassination of Diem. Nixons crony Hunt even faked some documents. But JFK did not order the killing of Diem and Nhu. The South-Vietnamese and the CIA were responsible for this. And then comes LBJ and said: "We killed him". It´s possible that he was trying to blame JFK for the assassination by saying "we", but I believe that he had something to do with this crime.
go read the declassified communications. There are loads of evidence showing JFK was running everything. The CIA was involved,but Colby and McCone were personally opposed to the coup, as were General Taylor and General Harkins. They were all following JFK's orders. He was their boss, you know. Look at the facts, man. You might learn something.
LBJ says "we killed him" We plotted and went out and found goons willing to do the job and unleashed them. He is using "we" in the moral sense, not the physical sense. LBJ was close friends with Diem, and very broken up by the assasination. Stop imagining your fairy tales.
I have not doubt that the coup was a JFK/CIA/Hilsman operation but JFK didn´t order the assassination of Diem. LBJ blames JFK for the murder or even made clear that he, CIA and the military killed Diem after the coup.
JFK was not stupid enough to order an assaination. He didnt have to do that. But what is the end result of a coup? Just like a drunk driver didnt intend to crash and kill people, but he is still held responsible. JFK killed Diem and Nhu.
JFK and Lodge had a tough time finding generals willing to undertake the coup. They had to offer them money, and protection, and a plane out of vietnam if the coup failed. The generals were afraid of Diem. They knew how powerful he was. They knew they had to kill him in order to stay in power. The end result was obvious and inevitable. Not only did the kill Diem and Nhu, but later they hunted down the rest of the relatives and killed them too.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!! Nixon: Murder of Diem -- Kennedy decided to go forward and got us involved, and it shows that Kennedy was the one who got us in the damn war. We got the Kennedys in this thing now. July 1, 1971, the Oval Office
Nixon: Murder of Diem -- Kennedy decided to go forward and got us involved, and it shows that Kennedy was the one who got us in the damn war. We got the Kennedys in this thing now. July 1, 1971, the Oval Office " And Nixon was absolutely correct too.
The great irony in Diem's death is that the Americans who backed the coup--Hilsman, Harriman, and Lodge--thought it would lead to a more stable Government, and allow the U.S. to pull its advisers out of Vietnam. That certainly backfired. Another great irony is that the CIA was opposed to the coup, and thought it would be a mistake, and that someone--most likely Ambassador Lodge--responded by leaking the name of the CIA's station chief, John Richardson, to the press, thereby forcing his removal.
my god, a person who knows what he is talking about. This is why JFK thought we could pull out the troops by 1965. He actually thought we would easily win the war after the coup. But they quickly realized the coup plotters were completely incompetent crooks, who didnt want to fight. They wanted the americans to do the fighting for them.
not only was the CIA opposed to the couip, so were Gen's Taylor and Harkins. Taylor was quoted saying he was trying to explain to JFK how all of the regional governments would be affected by the coup, and JFK just couldnt understand it. After the coup, some of the regional chiefs changed hands 3-5 times in the first week. The government completely crumbled, and the viet cong made huge advances.
Lodge and JFK were thinking they would win the war after the coup, because these coup plotters must be great generals. Actually, they were power hungry schmucks. Slime. The dregs of vietnam. Lodge came back to the US saying "vietnam is going to hell in a handbasket. The will to fight has died with Diem."
yes, and I remeber you saying I was wrong. And after that, I was able to read all of the declassified communications. I am not afraid to say I was wrong. JFK was definitely in favor of a war in vietnam. He thought vietnam was the place where he could show up the soviets. In saying that, ironically, he drew the soviets deep into the war too. The soviets started heavily funding the North after the coup, after Ho declare a war of liberation.
The whole 'Commie threat' claim was for domestic propoganda purposes. The fear was that the Viet-Minh would inspire similar insurgency in other areas, threatening US dominance. McNamara was more realistic than Johnson though, who understood little about foreign affairs and was psycologically unsound. The horror...
Not a Pax Americana enforced on the world by American weapons of war. Not the peace of the grave or the security of the slave. I am talking about genuine peace, the kind of peace that makes life on earth worth living, the kind that enables men and nations to grow and to hope and to build a better life for their children--not merely peace for Americans but peace for all men and women--not merely peace in our time but peace for all time. "
Hmmmm.....does not sound like a warmonger. Yet he invented the "missile gap", put missiles in Turkey as soon as he got in office, invaded Cuba, and started the messy business in Laos, the Congo. JFK was the biggest warmonger to ever occupy the office of president.
No proof that JFK killed Diem? All of the communications, cables and letters have been declassified and have been published. All you have to do is look them up. Why do you think JFK replaced Ambassador Nolting with a right wing republican, Henry Cabot Lodge, in mid 1963? Lodge and JFK talk about replacing the south vietnamese government with apolitical leaders who can run the war at the behest of foreigners. Those foreigners are JFK et al.
did you ever read the pentagon papers? LBJ greatly respected Diem. After LBJ resigned, he was being interviewed by a reporter at his house in Texas, and the reporter spotted a photo of Diem on the wall of his house. LBJ said Diem was a great man. To say LBJ was behind the assasination of Diem is really ludicrous. LBJ didnt have any power as vice president, and on top of that, he had a personal freindship with Diem. You really dont know anything.
the only proven killer was JFK. JFK was the biggest warmonger to ever occupy the office of president. JFK and RFK were just full of kooky covert operations schemes and plots, which they attempted all around the world. And according to the recent book on the history of the CIA, Legacy of Ashes, every single one of his kooky schemes failed. The assasination of Diem turned out to be the biggest boondogle ever. It drew us deep into vietnam after Diem was dead and the government crumbled.
If JFK was such a warmonger why did he not listen to his Generals & his Cabinet when they were yelling at him to bomb Cuba. They all thought he was a pacifist for the blockcade he set up. None of his papers show where he ordered the killing of Diem. Again Johnson and his War buddies were not above murder.
you have no idea what you are talking about. Why do you think JFK replaced Nolting with Lodge, a right wing republican? State Department telegram 243, signed by JFK at Hyanisport and sent to Saigon on Aug24, 1963, started the ball rolling. This was the start of JFK's work to recruit generals willing to carry out the coup. Lodge was sent to entice them with promises of money, power, and protection.
In the interview with cronkite, cronkite asks " do you think the government of south vietnam can retain the support of the people?" JFK says "yes, with changes in policy and personnel, I think it can. If it doesnt make those changes, it chances of winning are not very good." When questioned years later, the vietnamese generals said they interpreted this statement as a blank check to do whatever they wanted. That was JFK's intent.
By 1963, JFK was keeping the number of US soldiers in Vietnam a secret from Diem. There were 18,000, while JFK agreed with Diem to keep the number less than 12,000. There are many cables during 1963 between Lodge and JFK and his cabinet members, discussing the planning of the coup. In a discussion of the coup between Lodge and JFK, Lodge tells the president that they want to" set up an apolitical government that can carry out the war at the behest of foreigners." JFK agrees with this.
you and the rest of your brain dead conspiracy buddies make up these fantasitic stories, complete works of fiction, and totally unsubstantiated. Meanwhile there is tons of real data declassified and released by the government such as JFK's presidential communications , which you totally ignore. I bet you have never read any of that information. You probably didnt even know that it existed. You are totally brain dead.
Lodge had just arrived in Saigon when he got telgram 243. He said " he didnt even have time to present his credentials to the Saigon government and they were already asking him to carry out a coup." Colby, head of the CIA, desribed "frantic efforts to find generals willing to undertake a coup." JFK was "disturbed to learnthat the senior US military officer did not share the optimism" regarding a coup as JFK and his people did, refering to General Harkins.
Harkins recalled how he was rying to explain to JFK how a coup would completely didmantle the south vietnamese government. JFK kept saying "why?". Because every regional chief was appointed by Diem. In reality, every regional mayor position changed hands 2-5 times in the chaos after the coup.
All of the covert actions, the bay of pigs, actions in Laos, the coup in south vietnam, these were all approved by the president. The CIA was involved in planning, but clearly JFK was running the show. In any position of authority, there are always people with their own agenda that the leader must deal with. If this is the sole explanation for all of the disasters in the JFK administration, then the big question is why does it happen again and again?
It is the combination of JFK's compulsivbe risk taking, his childlike fascination with "bad people" such as mobsters like Giancanni. JFK and RFK took great pleasure from planning screwy covert operations and dealing with "bad people". This probably has something to do with JFK's relationship with his father, who was also very close to mafia figures.
Finally, JFK made bad decisions. Quick decisions, made without much contemplation, this pattern occurs repeatedly in the JFK administration, and ultimately led us to the disaster of the escalation of the vietnam war. Malcom X said the assasination of JFK was "a case of the chickens coming home to roost." JFK dealt with, organized,and unleashed all of these people of questionable character on to the third world. In the end, they came back to kill JFK.
Newmans book is trash. It contradicts the facts-JFK died shortly after carrying out a coup that destroyed the only stable government south vietnam ever had. If JFK was planning on pulling out, why would he destabilize the government before doing so? Bundy tried to expunge from the record the comment about pulling all troops out by 1965, because he thought it was so implausible.
JFK did want the coup & replace Diem but his plan was to have Diem taken to airport and to Europe.
His plan did not call for the muder of Diem, JFK & his planners were shocked to hear of the murder. Bundy was a Hawk who was always for war no matter what.
and drunks are not responsible for the people they kill on the highway either, because thats not what they intended to have happen. People get killed in military coups. JFK is morally responsible for the outcome. It was all his plan. But, it is not just JFK's murder of Diem that is morally reprehensable. The whole plan for the coup was immoral, and very very dumb.
Diem and Ngo wanted to keep the violence contained as a regional war, a civil war, or something like that. Diem knew that if the americans got involved, the north would use this as a propaganda tool to declare a war of liberation. Diem said this many times.
the last thing Diem wanted was vietnam to become ground zero for the global conflict between communists and the US. But unfortunately for Diem (and for us), this is exactly what JFK wanted. JFK's cabinet came up with "the domino theory". They worked hard to make vietnam the battlefield of global warfare. Eventially, JFK got tired of Diem's objections, and Diem committed the terrible sin of actually trying to negotiate with the north. This was to much for JFK, and he had Diem killed.
By killing Diem and setting up an american government in south vietnam, JFK was playing right into the hand of the communists. The north, like JFK, also wanted to make vietnam into a huge global conflict. They wanted this because this was the only chance the north had to win the war. If they could show the war was a war to liberate vietnam from the americans, they could get aid from the soviets and chinese.
Stupid JFK FORCED the soviets to intervene by declaring vietnam as the battleground between global communism. There was no way thesoviets or the chinese could walk away from that. So just as Diem predicted, the soviets and chinese intervened with massive military aid, and troops, and technology. JFK got his global war, just as he asked for, by killing Diem, installing a US puppet, and declaring a war with "global communism". ,
Just as Diem predicted, vietnam was laid to waste, millions died, and in the end, nobody wanted the war, but the killing continued. When you ask for war, you usually get what you ask for. Stupid JFK should have realized he was actually carrying out what the north dreamed of. To kill Diem, the most powerful anticommunist, and to give north vietnam the ability to declare a war of liberation, a huge propaganda victory that compelled the soviets and chinese to make the vietnam war their business.
If the coup against Diem made things worse for Vietnam, then according to the logic of the hawks. Once S. Vietnam falls then everything in Asia will follow and north America will become Communist.
That did not happen as they said, and the Communist are not evil as they said. If that were so, then by that logic we should still be in Vietnam fighting right now.
the domino theory was JFK's propaganda. There was never such a thing as "global communism". The war became an embarrassment to Nixon, when he was trying to establish relations with China, the country that was supposedly behind all the fighting, according to the domino theory. Nixon abandoned vietnam and lots of people died because of it. He gave the communists everything they wanted, just so he could call himself the "peacemaker".
JFK was planning to withdraw only 6% of the troops, probably because he was way over the agreed upon troop number. After the coup, there was never another mention of the withdraw because it was no longer needed. The US was running south vietnam at that point. After the coup, the government crumbled, the vietcong made huge advances in the delta, and the US was forced to send in more support to prevent the defeat of south vietnam.
" And after his murder the war was suddenly being lost. "
Thats right. After JFK destroyed the government, the war was being lost badly. Lodge told LBJ that "the will to fight seems to have died with Diem." He also said after the coup, "vietnam was going to hell in a handbasket." The post coup was totally the opposite of what they expected, because what they expected was totally unrealistic, and Diem, Nolting, Harkins, and Taylor told JFK this before the coup. The coup lost the war.
Your major problem is that you do not understand that our military planers never had any intention of winning a war. When a General asked Johnson what was the objective in Vietnam, Johnson did not say. He just told the General to just go in there and fight. The REAL objective of being in Vietnam was to Make Money for Johnson and his Cronies.
oh really, is that my problem? You dont think MacNamara was trying to win the war? You dont think Westmorland was trying to win? You dont think LBJ was trying to win? You win the prize for saying the stupidest stuff I have ever heard.
MacNamara was a big time Kiss Ass, he would do anything just for the sake of power. He knew the war was all about money, now he did say Kennedy was pulling out in 65, do you want to hear it on Utube? let me know ........
So JFK went from the disaster of the coup, when they werent sure if south vietnam would survive a week, to guaranteeing that they would pull out in 1965. Who could guarantee something like that? They had no idea what would happen between 1963 to 1965, yet you say they could guarantee they were going to pull out? That is 1) irresponsible 2) extremely naive 3) plain stupid.
Bush stood on the deck of an aircraft carrier in 2003 and declared victory. Look how well that went. It is just like JFK saying we would pull out in 1965 right after he destroyed the government and the vietcong were taking vast expanses of real estate in the delta. You guys are a bunch of fools. He said it for propaganda effect. You really think he was so stupid as to think he could guarantee a pullout in 1965? JFK's disasterous coup was what forced us to stay and escalate.
did he talk to JFK's ghost to detrmine that? The direction JFK's policies led us was straight to escalation, which of course was the reason for the coup in the first place. If you think JFK was going to pull out, why do you think he carried out the coup? JFK thought he could win the war, just like LBJ, in fact much more so.
immediately after the coup, several things were obvious 1) the generals that took over were incompetant, corrupt, and they didnt want to fight. 2) suddenly the south was losing badly to the vietcong 3) the north declared a war of liberation in response to the coup, and started to receive massive soviet assistance, then they got into the fight. JFK's "limited war" had just blown up, and after the coup, it would not have mattered who was president in the US.
If JFK was the kind of guy to back down to the soviets, why did he take us to the brink of nuclear war in the bay of pigs? He would have gone all the way too, if it was required. They were ready for a nuclear exchange. Vietnam was small potatoes compared to that. JFK said he was opposed to pulling out of vietnam. He pulled off the coup so he could expand the war. He would never have pulled out of vietnam.
yes, you do that. And also get back to me with an explanation why JFK would carry out a coup to destroy the government of south vietnam at the very moment you say he was planning to pull out. If JFK would have lived, why would the outcome have been any different. After the coup, they couintry was in free fall. They had no stable government,. JFK wanted to win the war. The war that he expanded with his coup. He would have done the exact same thing Johnson did.
If JFK had surrendered and pulled out at the moment the north stepped up the war, what do you think would have been the response of the republicans in the middle of the cold war? What would the american people think. Remeber, up until late 1968, the war was very popular in the US. People would say JFK lost free vietnam. He was a coward, and ran just when it started getting tough. The democrats would never win an election ever again. JFK would never have backed down.
while you are looking through your "files" , why dont you go read the text of NSAM263Then tell me where in there it talks about pulling out troops in 1965. It was an off the cuff remark by JFK, and it embarassed his staff so much that they tried to get the comment expunged from the record. But then again, I guess everything I have read is the richard M Nixon doctored version of US history, right? .
after the coup, it became quite clear that that JFK's chosen coup plotters were totally corrupt, nobody had any loyalty to them, all of the good civil servants left the government, and the military didnt want to fight and die for american puppets. They fully expected the US to do the fighting for them. This is why things went downhill so fast after the coup. It didnt have anything to do with JFK's death, but rather Diem's death in November, 1963.
The war might have started to go bad after the death of Diem, but 21 days later Kennedy was not changing his plan to pull out of Vietnam. In the mean time JFK had an appointment to be the target for a shooting gallery. Then Johnson started a massive build up of troops (victims) so he and his buddies could profit.
it is not even logical. If JFK was pulling out, why did he destroy the only stable government that south vietnam ever had? Was that his parting gift? JFK said to Cronkite that he was opposed to pulling out. JFK killed Diem so he could run the war without interference from a pesky democratically elected leader of a sovereign country, who was apposed to JFK blowing up his country and killing all the civilians. Diem was close to working out a settlement with Ho, so JFK sped up the coup timetable.
how did lbj profit? and who were his "buddies" that profited? You dont think anybody would notice if the president had illicit income? Thats just simpleton speak.
thats right. after the coup, the government JFK picked was totally incompetent and corrupt, and they didnt want to fight. Thats why they were losing. And also the troops were not loyal to them.
NSAM 263 said all troops out by 1965 then when Johnson became president he wiped his ass with it. And shortly afterwards started a Massive buildup of troops, because he was always a hawk and he profitted from the contracts to Brown & Root.
NSAM 263 said all troops out by 1965 then when Johnson became president he wiped his ass with it. " I can tell you have never even read NSAM 263. It says NOTHING about bringing all the troops out by 1965. The only version you know is oliver stones. NSAM 263 called for the removal of 6% of the troops, probably because 1) they were way over the agreed apon limit of 12000, and 2) it was normal troop rotation. Go read it. There is no mention of 1965, or anything about a complete withdraw.
NSAM 262 was divided in two parts when the pentagon papers were being cooked up. So then people like you come along and take the pentagon papers as gospel.
Howard Hunt who hated Kennedy told told Charles Colsen who worked for Nixon he could tamper with Kennedy papers to make it look like Vietnam JFK fault.
what bait? NSAM 262 is pretty clear and simple. And it says nothing about pulling troops in in 1965. So JFK was writing in a code that only people like you can understand? Yes, a secret invisible code, that nobody else can see. Yes, thats the ticket.
Nixon was in power 5 years after JFK was dead. Do you realy think a president can go into the archives and start changing historical documents with nobody noticing? If he could do that, the first thing he would have changed would have been his own records like the smoking gun tape. What you say is so far fetched. Go read NSAM 263 for yourself.
If the documents were changed by Colson as you say (laughing), how is it that you know what the original one says? Did you read them before Nixon came into office? If you know this, why doesnt anybody go back and get the originals? Did anybody else read the document before Colson changed them, or just you? What about JFK's cabinet? Surely they would notice if Nixon changed key historical documents. It is not even logical.
Pentagon papers have no mention of Jfk being assassinated they just say president on 23 or 24 of Nov. met to talk about Vietnam.Mainstream media has a fool like you duped.
what about all of the presidential communications and postion papers of JFK? That is the material that historians use. Oh, but thats right, those are the work of richard nixon. I am not suprised you dont want to believe the pentagon papers, because they show how JFK carried out the coup to escalate the war, and show how badly that failed.
so why do you think JFK switched the ambassador to vietnam in mid 1963, from Nolting, to a conservative right wing republican, Henry cabot lodge? Why do you think JFK carried out the coup and destroyed the only stable government of south vietnam? Any evidence in the archives that contradicts your little fairy tale you simply say Nixon altered the documents, or somebody else altered the documents. Your version has no supporting documentary evidence at all. But I dont think you worry about that.
NSAM 263 is recorded in the government archives, and its pretty hard to alter what is in the archives. You dont think anybody would notice if Nixon started changing Kennedy's presidential documents? What you say is just stupid.
No because nobody said anything about the pentagon papers, the one's that really know write books. But mainstream media is just repeating pentagon papers.
Nixon or any of his plummbers could have access to anything and change everything and you believe it. That is so easy. Just look at the pentagon papers to see what rewriting history is about.
In 2003, Bush stood on an aircraft carrier and declared victory, and predicted the US would be out of Iraq very soon. Does that absolve Bush of everything that happened after the aircraft carrier speech? JFK would have NEVER NEVER pulled out of a popular war and accept defeat at the hands of the communists. JFK was the biggest hawk ever. LBJ hated the war because it took away from his efforts at creating his Great Society. JFK didnt have anything like the Great Society.
JFK had the civil rights bill, but a shooting free for all stopped him from getting any credit for that. He also wrote NSAM 255 which took away The CIA ability to start wars like the congo, Iraq, Vietnam. Which was ignored by all his generals, because they did not want to get into that business.
Kennedy started to realize he did not have that much power over the Military complex.
JFK didnt have control of the military? Dont you think that would be a serious problem? You are really exaggerating. JFK was commander in chief. If he didnt have control of the military, a lot of people would take notice. That would be called a military coup. Can you give any example of where the military refused to obey an order from JFK? JFK gave the green light for the bay of pigs. The coups were JFK's idea.
In 1961 Military was pushing JFK to add 100,000 troops, but JFK sent in only advisors. JFK signed NSAM 255 for his general to get in the business of covert actions NOT the cia. They ignored that order, during Missile Crisis his Generals ordered a High War Alert status which he complained about. He was banging his head against the wall, he could not win with the Generals.
thats bullshit. Diem wouldnt allow any more than 12000 troops, yet JFK was lying to Diem and he put in 18000. Absolutely nobody was calling for 100000 troops in 1961. A few people predicted that a full blown war would require 100,000 troops , but JFK laughed at them and said they were out of their minds. In 1961, people thought north vietnam was no match for US military. Tell me, who was "calling for" 100,00 troops in 1961? You are absolutely wrong.
The situtation changed more in Washinton than in vietnam after JFK was assassinated
well that isnt saying much. Of course the vietnamese didnt really care what happened to JFK. The biggest change for them was 2 weeks earlier, when they lost their indpendent voice in government, a voice that had their best interests in mind, replaced by american puppets who were put there to facilitate the expansion of the war.
you are confused. Nobody was telling him to send 100,000 troops. The exact quote from his advisor, George Ball, was "it would take 5 years and 100,000 troops to achieve victory. JFK said "george, you are crazy." In fact there was no way JFK could send 100,000 troops because Diem and Nhu were against it.
@045781 This is fiction. Have you read the transcripts of LBJ's office recordings? He knew very well what the deal was in Vietnam. LBJ spent most of his adult life in government. He knew his way around Washington.
@maccagirl56 you mean the fact that it was never acted upon? Never saw the light of day? JFK was ultimately in control of the CIA. He used the CIA to carry out the coup in Vietnam, and kill Diem.The CIA analysts get paid to run scenarios, play test ideas, but certainly hardly any are ever carried out, which is a good thing.
@Jellolion1 Shame on you for still spouting your revisionist lies after I so thoroughly & factually disproved your outrageous claims elsewhere on YouTube. As you well know, Lodge sent CIA agent Conein to assassinate Diem, in defiance of White House orders. This has been confirmed by the only eyewitness to these events, Lodge's military aide de camp who was there when Lodge was on the phone with Conein. You are an obsessive Kennedy-hating disinformation propagandist & nothing more.
@WALRU11 well if it isnt mr JFK apologist, still making up his own version of history to cover up the fact that JFK was our most militaristic president, obsessed with his assasination plots,secret wars in asia and the not so secret wars in vietnam. JFK set the stage for the disaster of the 1960's. Its too bad he died and never saw the epic disaster of his making. Its hard to deny whats in JFK's presidential papers. JFK wanted Diem out so the US could run the war in vietnam.
@Jellolion1 Look, you rightwing revisionist nutcase, having so thoroughly, factually, & irrefutably kicked your sorry Kennedy-hating ass completely out of the polemic ball park in our last series of exchanges, I do not wish to now lower myself by bothering to stoop to swat such a fallen mental gnat as you. You're wrong, sick, & in need of therapy. Anyone who wishes to learn the truth about the Diem murder can simply refer to my earlier posts. Lodge & Conein countermanded JFK orders. Period
@WALRU11 you are the right wing revisionist. Its sad that you obviously dont even realize it. Supporting the Kennedys fanatical militaristic policies, covering up the huge attrocities, whipping up the cold war to win votes, carrying out assasination and attempted assasinations all over the world, and putting us right in the middle of the vietnam war.
@Jellolion1 You're foaming at the mouth again in one of your typically baseless insane rants. Nothing that you say holds even an iota of truth. Pure invention from a diseased mind. Apparently, after being corrected by facts and composed by pharmaceuticals, you manage to function for a short while before again going off your meds & raging madly in another period of episodic delusion, So go back & re-read my earleir series of posts that wholly refute your crazy theories. You're sick. Get help.
@WALRU11 oh yeah, like I am goinfg to spend the time to go back and read your fictional rants. I dont do conspiracy stories. I like to stick to the facts. You on the other hand, seem to have this passion for coming up with the most fucked up sorry excuses. You and Romain Gary have something in common. You are both in love with JFK. Ahh,yes. Wally walrus and Gary romain. Now there is a fruity salad.
@Jellolion1 "Fruity salad?" As someone with the fruity moniker, "Jello" you'd be the expert in gay relationships. And it's obvious that you're a "lion" with no pride. Re: "Conspiracy theories," that's all your pathetic posts are - one big conspiracy fabrication: the "evil" JFK conspiring against the noble hapless Diem. Please! The only thing you stick to is your pants, you sad little wanker.
Respond to this video...hey wally, did you ever see the photos of JFK's naked parties in the white house, where they all ran around the white house with animal masks on? Yes, the most perfectly functioning human mind, humping floozies every day, popping fistfulls of pain pills, dropping acid, and running around the white house naked, with an elephant mask over his face.
@Jellolion1 You "like to stick to the facts, huh?" Produce an authenticated photo supporting your outlandish fictions, you lying rancid meat sack. Where's your proof? Come on, big mouth. Show us the tell-tale photos. Back up your hateful venomous rants. Otherwise, you pathetic little piece of fecal matter, kindly STFU!
havent been researching to well then have you?? theres not a shred of real evidence that points to johnson & thats a fact, i will stay with the facts...
not true my friend, LT carl day of dallas police found a print on it & phptographed it, this was before it was handed over to the fbi, dallas police confirmed it was oswalds hand print before he was assasinated!! youstill havent made a point of johnsons involvement anyway??
they were no more corrupt than any other police force, dallas police would have loved to have cleared the assasination up themselves, this was taken out of their hands by the secret service & the fbi... surely you dont believe the crock of shit she came out with?? she was a pure fantasist!!
What is so significant about the strange man with the hat who shakes JFK's hand prior to boarding? What is the "coincidence"??
autoad 4 months ago
THE Z FILM IS FAKE SO IS THE OSWALD SHOOTING FOOTAGE FAKE................
SuperBandstand 7 months ago
@SuperBandstand What was the faked Z-film supposed to do? Was it to draw attention to Oswald or away from him?
autoad 4 months ago
@autoad zapruder was a white russian and i doudt that he was even there when it happened ,the kennedy death is a fabrication controled by the media from fort worth to parkland most photographs are fake and most of the footage it might sound far fetched but i have seen photos of jackie kennedy and jfk doubles as well as lee harvey and jack ruby doubles check out the time life covers of jfk most have been manufactured ,,,just like when lady di went to usa before her death ,,fakes and lies ..
SuperBandstand 4 months ago
i wanna see his dead body idk why tho
incredibad17 1 year ago
I like how you people just make up facts and then state them as truths.
tryithere 1 year ago
Search: False Flag USS Liberty
Search: E Howard Hunt Confession
More information is coming out all the time , mostly thanks to the freedom of information act. LBJ was a murderer and he murdered JFK to become president.
I have seen claims there is a document that proves Bush was there , as a CIA operative ,when JFK was murdered.
YouAreOneOfUs 1 year ago
Do you know who is this 'strange man' is and what exactly is so strange about him, or the occasion?
lordsod69 1 year ago
What's the coincidence? Who was the man? Ruby? Zapruder?
Manbeast222 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I just had to a book report on JFK, I use to think he was a hero but now I know the truth about him, i am dissapointed. JFK wasn't a good/smart guy his whole political career was based off his daddy spending millions to cheat for him in every election all the way from the House up until the Presidency. He was the most corrupt person and biggest fraud/cheater to ever become prez. Getting shot made people think it was because he was "good" when in reality it was because he was the exact opposite.
Pinksnotgoth 2 years ago
I thought there might be an interesting discussion here, but Jellolion1 has dominated it. sad.
bogadea 2 years ago
you obviously have nothing to say.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
who is this "strange man"?
bogadea 2 years ago
Correction The book to read is John Newman's book " JFK & Vietnam
sorry about the typo......
045781 2 years ago
I suggest reading "The Texas Connection" by Craig Zirbel and any objective account of the Vietnam War
045781 2 years ago
Attached is utube showing the front page of newspaper showing troops out by 65
See and Know..............
watch?v=UN6r7MTTf9Y&feature=related
045781 2 years ago
so why did JFK have to wait until 1965? He had plenty of reasons to pull out in 1963. Why did he carry out the coup if he was pulling out? JFK thought the troops would be out by 1965 because he thought the coup would be wildly successful. Look at his conversions with Lodge. So naive. They thought as soon as the new government was in place, the war would be won. When Taylor tried to explain to JFK that the coup would actually hurt the war, JFK couldnt comprehend that.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
@045781 yeah, that kooky jfk actually thought that after his coup was pulled off, and Diem was out of the way, the war would be won in a few months, and then they could pull the tropps out by 65. How wrong he was. His coup put the burden of war squarely on the shoulders of our boys. What a shitstorm JFK created for us.
Jellolion1 1 year ago
@Jellolion1
JFK knew the war was never going to be won and he never had intended for Diem to be killed. The Shitstorm was created by Johnson to line his pockets with cash.
Johnson is the one you should be hating.......
045781 1 year ago
@045781 yeah right. So why did JFK send 12,000 "advisors", way over the legal limit of 600? Why did JFK and Lodge discuss in a phone call how the war would be won in short order after his coup? Why did JFK tell reporters he didnt want to lose in Vietnam? Why did JFK brag about how he increased US troop strength in vietnam by thousands fold? He was never going to pull out in defeat. If you think he was planning to do so, then you obviously dont know much about the Kennedys.
Jellolion1 1 year ago
Respond to this video...and JFK didnt even have a money motive. His pockets were already lined by mob money, and bootleg proceeds from the prohibition era. JFK's motive was always a craving for power, even thoough he admitted himself that he didnt know what to do once he won the electrions.
Jellolion1 1 year ago
@Jellolion1 Your claims get more ridiculous by the moment. They're so petty, hateful, idiotic, & stupid that I'm not even going to bother with such a mental gnat as you. Rage on, you intellectual nullity. You're only making a bigger ass of yourself with each successive post. No one believes you. You're a fraud, a poser, an insignificant little psychotic, a self-destructive ambsace of a schmo.
WALRU11 1 year ago
@Jellolion1
See attached video where McNamara says JFK was in shock in hearing about Diem being killed.
Also that criminal Johnson can be heard saying he never wanted to withdraw from Vietnam.
/watch?v=r5GRlLRUqsQ&feature=related
045781 1 year ago
@045781 Thanks for your post, but in truth, Jello-head is hopeless. He's either a shill paid to post garbage as part of the CIA's campaign to posthumpusly assassinate JFK, or more likely, just a hate-filled, misinformed, rightwing OCD lunatic oblivious to facts, the true historical record, & any other opinion beyond his own irrational hideous hatreds. He has been thoroughly refuted online before, but he's locked into his particular mental illness. But thanks, as others can check.
WALRU11 1 year ago
@WALRU11 careful now, you are going to pop a blood vessel. I know you get pissed off because I get all my facts from Kennedys papers in the national archives. Why dont you try to claim like your buddy, that the papers in the national archives are all fakes. Yes, its all one big conspiracy. All of Kennedys mumerous screwups can be traced back to plots by underlings. And the good natured Kennedy only fired one, the ambassador to Vietnam, Nolting, because he was opposed to the coup.
Jellolion1 1 year ago
@Jellolion1 You don't get your claims from documents in the national archives. You have routinely ignored historical records in order to construct a massive fiction predicated on your hatred of JFK. If you actually bothered to research the Diem murder, you hopeless moron, you would have long ago come across Colonel Dunn's testimony that completely refutes your fantasies. It's a matter of public record, but you refuse to acknowledge it. You have never let facts sway you from your hated & bias.
WALRU11 1 year ago
@WALRU11 nothing is more ridiculous than the fucked up sorry excuses you come up with. Like the dog that ate the boys homework,JFK can take no blame for his screwups in office. And you even think the CIA is posthumously trying to defame JFK. That is just sad. What a twisted paranoid JFK apologist. Blame all of JFK's screwups on conspiracies.
Jellolion1 1 year ago
@045781 JFK was in shock because he realized he was responsible for the death of a fellow catholic, and according to his religion, he would go to hell.
Jellolion1 1 year ago
@Jellolion1 Piss off, you phony sanctimonious poser. JFK was in shock because he had personally ensured Diem's safe passage & was betrayed by his '52 & '60 political rival, Lodge. Now, You go to hell.
WALRU11 1 year ago
The ranch that LBJ lived in has never been open to the public. I doubt that he ever had a pic of Diem in his house, because LBJ only cared about himself and no one else. Show me a pic of Diem in his house, very unlikely......
045781 2 years ago
I saw an interview of LBJ at his ranch in 1970. He had long hair. You dont know anything about LBJ. If he cared about nobody else, why did he push throiugh more civil rights legislation than any other president in history, and he was a southerner too. Why was he so concerned about poor people and the great society programs. You know nothing about LBJ.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Johnson was a serial liar and would stop at nothing to become president.
Any good he did is overshadowed by the 58,000 plus people he had killed.
045781 2 years ago 10
The killing of Diem I will admit was something that JFK was responsible for even thought it was not his intention.
The war going to shit in a basket was not Kennedys worry, he just wanted out because he never did believe in the domino theory, that was Nixon who believe in that bullshit or so he said he did.
045781 2 years ago
Nixon believed in the domino theory? The domino came from Kennedy people. MacNamara to be exact. Nixon wasnt that stupid. He wanted out of vietnam because he wanted to normalize relations with china. By the time Nixon was in office, everybody knew the domino theory was bullshit.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
JFK didnt care about the war.Another piece of shit from your else. JFK did virtually nothing else but plan his stupid coup the last 6 months of his life. He wanted to get rid of Diem and Nhu because they didnt want US troops in vietnam
Jellolion1 2 years ago
JFK did have blood on his hands when Diem died.
Wheather he approved of the killing or not, he did order the coup.
And Johsnon was always against JFk in every way, even when Johnson went to Vietnam.
He made promises to Diem that went against wishes of JFK.
045781 2 years ago
@045781 thats funny he must have made promises to diems corpse agaisnt the wishes of jfk;s corpse... considering both men were both dead when johnson was in power. diem and his brother were killed 2weeks before jfk. jfk told diem he could get him outta the country that there was going to be a coup and diem refused. johnson tried to fake cables saying it was all kennedy but it didnt work
pat442389 1 year ago
@pat442389
JFK sent that douch bag Johnson to see Diem when JFK was still the president.
Johnson tried to make his own deals with Diem, just ignoring what JFK wanted.
045781 1 year ago
@pat442389 Johnson visited Vietnam while he was he was still Vice President. Johnson claimed that Diem was the new Churchill and like England during WWII the American Government would do anything necessary to support "democracy." Robert Kennedy sent cables to the US Embassy in Vietnam telling them to tell Diem that Johnson did not speak for the US Govt.
TrueNovice 1 year ago
Yeah sure. JFK didnt care about losing vietnam to the communists. He did little else the last 6 months of his life other than plan that stupid coup. Thousands of pages of documents created. He thought the war would be won as soon as the new government took over. But you say he didnt care about vietnam. If thats the case, then a doctor would label him a sociopath.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Johnson had deep ties to Brown & Root construction since he stole the senate seat, he would sell them jobs. On the day Kennedy was to get a bullet in the head, Johnson was being impeached on corruption charges. The bullet in Kennedy's head enable Johnson to sell more work to Brown & Root in Vietnam.
Johnson was money big bucks in Vietnam, he was never trying to win any war in Vietnam.
045781 2 years ago
so Johnson was actually impeached, and nobody knew about it. wow. I guess nobody read that story in the newspaper that day. A stealth impeachement. How novel.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
There was an article about troops (victims) being out by 65 in Military newspaper "stars & strips" it is on the front cover. So JFK was pulling out. McNamara also said it, & McNamara quit while under Johnson because he knew it was a lost war. McNamara & Johnson always disagreed on how the war was going. If anything Johnson justed wanted to continue the war at all cost.
045781 2 years ago
do you understand how rediculous it is. Bush stood on the aircraft carrier and declared victory in Iraq too. It is the same thing. There is no way any reponsible president could make a pronouncement on a policy without even knowing the circumstances. JFK had a hard enough time dealing with the present. Predicting what would happen 2 years in the future, after a coup he knew was just about to occur, and without knowing the outcome of that coup, would be plain irresponsible.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
you are so wrong. LBJ hated the war. He said the war was destroying his great society plans and programs. He called his great society "a beautiful lady" that was being ruined by a bitch, the vietnam war. You just pull stuff out of your ass. LBJ liked the war, yeah , right.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Johnson was a war monger from his senate days.
He was always against JFK and his plans for Vietnam.
045781 2 years ago
"vietnam was going to hell in a handbasket."
JFK still had not changed his mind about troop withdrawl, because he did not believe in the domino theory. The war going bad was never an issue with JFK.
045781 2 years ago
the war going bad was not an issue with JFK? Then why did he have 18000 troops there? Why did he need to get Diem out of the way? After Vienna, JFK said vietnam was the place where he would confront the soviets. If he didnt care, then he was either an idiot, or a sociopath.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Diem and Nhu were murdered on 1st November, 1963. The news reached Kennedy the following day. According to historian David Kaiser, Kennedy left the room in shock. He didn´t order the killing of Diem and Nhu. It was LBJ.
045781 2 years ago
Of course he was in shock. He felt guilty. He was morally responsible for the death of a fellow catholic. Catholics are pretty serious about that stuff.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
LBJ? That is such bullshit. A reporter interviewing LBJ in Texas after he was out of the white house, in 1970, spotted a photo of LBJ with Diem on the wall of LBJ's Texas house. The reporter asked LBJ why it was there. LBJ said he had developed a deep friendship for Diem, that Diem was a great man. Enough of your bullshit fairy tales. You are weak.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
He didn´t order the killing of Diem and Nhu. It was LBJ. This is absolute bullshit. LBJ had a close personal friendship with Diem. Stop pulling stuff out of your ass.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Johnson was a redneck racist, who did not have any friends.
045781 2 years ago
Listen: LBJ and Nixon blamed JFK for the assassination of Diem. Nixons crony Hunt even faked some documents. But JFK did not order the killing of Diem and Nhu. The South-Vietnamese and the CIA were responsible for this. And then comes LBJ and said: "We killed him". It´s possible that he was trying to blame JFK for the assassination by saying "we", but I believe that he had something to do with this crime.
045781 2 years ago
go read the declassified communications. There are loads of evidence showing JFK was running everything. The CIA was involved,but Colby and McCone were personally opposed to the coup, as were General Taylor and General Harkins. They were all following JFK's orders. He was their boss, you know. Look at the facts, man. You might learn something.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
LBJ says "we killed him" We plotted and went out and found goons willing to do the job and unleashed them. He is using "we" in the moral sense, not the physical sense. LBJ was close friends with Diem, and very broken up by the assasination. Stop imagining your fairy tales.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
I have not doubt that the coup was a JFK/CIA/Hilsman operation but JFK didn´t order the assassination of Diem. LBJ blames JFK for the murder or even made clear that he, CIA and the military killed Diem after the coup.
045781 2 years ago
JFK was not stupid enough to order an assaination. He didnt have to do that. But what is the end result of a coup? Just like a drunk driver didnt intend to crash and kill people, but he is still held responsible. JFK killed Diem and Nhu.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
JFK and Lodge had a tough time finding generals willing to undertake the coup. They had to offer them money, and protection, and a plane out of vietnam if the coup failed. The generals were afraid of Diem. They knew how powerful he was. They knew they had to kill him in order to stay in power. The end result was obvious and inevitable. Not only did the kill Diem and Nhu, but later they hunted down the rest of the relatives and killed them too.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!! Nixon: Murder of Diem -- Kennedy decided to go forward and got us involved, and it shows that Kennedy was the one who got us in the damn war. We got the Kennedys in this thing now. July 1, 1971, the Oval Office
045781 2 years ago
Nixon: Murder of Diem -- Kennedy decided to go forward and got us involved, and it shows that Kennedy was the one who got us in the damn war. We got the Kennedys in this thing now. July 1, 1971, the Oval Office " And Nixon was absolutely correct too.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
The great irony in Diem's death is that the Americans who backed the coup--Hilsman, Harriman, and Lodge--thought it would lead to a more stable Government, and allow the U.S. to pull its advisers out of Vietnam. That certainly backfired. Another great irony is that the CIA was opposed to the coup, and thought it would be a mistake, and that someone--most likely Ambassador Lodge--responded by leaking the name of the CIA's station chief, John Richardson, to the press, thereby forcing his removal.
045781 2 years ago
my god, a person who knows what he is talking about. This is why JFK thought we could pull out the troops by 1965. He actually thought we would easily win the war after the coup. But they quickly realized the coup plotters were completely incompetent crooks, who didnt want to fight. They wanted the americans to do the fighting for them.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
not only was the CIA opposed to the couip, so were Gen's Taylor and Harkins. Taylor was quoted saying he was trying to explain to JFK how all of the regional governments would be affected by the coup, and JFK just couldnt understand it. After the coup, some of the regional chiefs changed hands 3-5 times in the first week. The government completely crumbled, and the viet cong made huge advances.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Lodge and JFK were thinking they would win the war after the coup, because these coup plotters must be great generals. Actually, they were power hungry schmucks. Slime. The dregs of vietnam. Lodge came back to the US saying "vietnam is going to hell in a handbasket. The will to fight has died with Diem."
Jellolion1 2 years ago
there were 2 roadblocks to the US expansion of the was in Vietnam. Both roadblocks were taken out in Nov 1963. Diem, then Kennedy.
Remember saying that?
045781 2 years ago
yes, and I remeber you saying I was wrong. And after that, I was able to read all of the declassified communications. I am not afraid to say I was wrong. JFK was definitely in favor of a war in vietnam. He thought vietnam was the place where he could show up the soviets. In saying that, ironically, he drew the soviets deep into the war too. The soviets started heavily funding the North after the coup, after Ho declare a war of liberation.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
The whole 'Commie threat' claim was for domestic propoganda purposes. The fear was that the Viet-Minh would inspire similar insurgency in other areas, threatening US dominance. McNamara was more realistic than Johnson though, who understood little about foreign affairs and was psycologically unsound. The horror...
045781 2 years ago
Not a Pax Americana enforced on the world by American weapons of war. Not the peace of the grave or the security of the slave. I am talking about genuine peace, the kind of peace that makes life on earth worth living, the kind that enables men and nations to grow and to hope and to build a better life for their children--not merely peace for Americans but peace for all men and women--not merely peace in our time but peace for all time. "
Hmmmm.....does not sound like a warmonger
045781 2 years ago
Hmmmm.....does not sound like a warmonger. Yet he invented the "missile gap", put missiles in Turkey as soon as he got in office, invaded Cuba, and started the messy business in Laos, the Congo. JFK was the biggest warmonger to ever occupy the office of president.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Wow! extremely rare
ronnahdoyle 2 years ago
No proof that JFK killed Diem, but Johnson does say on utube we killed him which can be taken as JFK in on it.
More that likely that Johnson was doing stuff behind JFK"s back as LBJ was a proven killer.
045781 2 years ago
No proof that JFK killed Diem? All of the communications, cables and letters have been declassified and have been published. All you have to do is look them up. Why do you think JFK replaced Ambassador Nolting with a right wing republican, Henry Cabot Lodge, in mid 1963? Lodge and JFK talk about replacing the south vietnamese government with apolitical leaders who can run the war at the behest of foreigners. Those foreigners are JFK et al.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
did you ever read the pentagon papers? LBJ greatly respected Diem. After LBJ resigned, he was being interviewed by a reporter at his house in Texas, and the reporter spotted a photo of Diem on the wall of his house. LBJ said Diem was a great man. To say LBJ was behind the assasination of Diem is really ludicrous. LBJ didnt have any power as vice president, and on top of that, he had a personal freindship with Diem. You really dont know anything.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Pentagon papers have already been debunked as worthless toiletpaper.
Yes Johnson never had any power as prez but when JFK sent him to Vietnam he got drunk and did not want to go.
Then when there he was trying to make his own deals with Diem, not want JFK wanted.
045781 2 years ago
the only proven killer was JFK. JFK was the biggest warmonger to ever occupy the office of president. JFK and RFK were just full of kooky covert operations schemes and plots, which they attempted all around the world. And according to the recent book on the history of the CIA, Legacy of Ashes, every single one of his kooky schemes failed. The assasination of Diem turned out to be the biggest boondogle ever. It drew us deep into vietnam after Diem was dead and the government crumbled.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
If JFK was such a warmonger why did he not listen to his Generals & his Cabinet when they were yelling at him to bomb Cuba. They all thought he was a pacifist for the blockcade he set up. None of his papers show where he ordered the killing of Diem. Again Johnson and his War buddies were not above murder.
045781 2 years ago
you have no idea what you are talking about. Why do you think JFK replaced Nolting with Lodge, a right wing republican? State Department telegram 243, signed by JFK at Hyanisport and sent to Saigon on Aug24, 1963, started the ball rolling. This was the start of JFK's work to recruit generals willing to carry out the coup. Lodge was sent to entice them with promises of money, power, and protection.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
In the interview with cronkite, cronkite asks " do you think the government of south vietnam can retain the support of the people?" JFK says "yes, with changes in policy and personnel, I think it can. If it doesnt make those changes, it chances of winning are not very good." When questioned years later, the vietnamese generals said they interpreted this statement as a blank check to do whatever they wanted. That was JFK's intent.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
By 1963, JFK was keeping the number of US soldiers in Vietnam a secret from Diem. There were 18,000, while JFK agreed with Diem to keep the number less than 12,000. There are many cables during 1963 between Lodge and JFK and his cabinet members, discussing the planning of the coup. In a discussion of the coup between Lodge and JFK, Lodge tells the president that they want to" set up an apolitical government that can carry out the war at the behest of foreigners." JFK agrees with this.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
you and the rest of your brain dead conspiracy buddies make up these fantasitic stories, complete works of fiction, and totally unsubstantiated. Meanwhile there is tons of real data declassified and released by the government such as JFK's presidential communications , which you totally ignore. I bet you have never read any of that information. You probably didnt even know that it existed. You are totally brain dead.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Another book you need to open up your fucked up head is: JFK & Vietnam by John Newman.
Everything JFK did was to avoid war, you can wipe your ass with the pentagon papers .
045781 2 years ago
Lodge had just arrived in Saigon when he got telgram 243. He said " he didnt even have time to present his credentials to the Saigon government and they were already asking him to carry out a coup." Colby, head of the CIA, desribed "frantic efforts to find generals willing to undertake a coup." JFK was "disturbed to learnthat the senior US military officer did not share the optimism" regarding a coup as JFK and his people did, refering to General Harkins.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Harkins recalled how he was rying to explain to JFK how a coup would completely didmantle the south vietnamese government. JFK kept saying "why?". Because every regional chief was appointed by Diem. In reality, every regional mayor position changed hands 2-5 times in the chaos after the coup.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
All of the covert actions, the bay of pigs, actions in Laos, the coup in south vietnam, these were all approved by the president. The CIA was involved in planning, but clearly JFK was running the show. In any position of authority, there are always people with their own agenda that the leader must deal with. If this is the sole explanation for all of the disasters in the JFK administration, then the big question is why does it happen again and again?
Jellolion1 2 years ago
It is the combination of JFK's compulsivbe risk taking, his childlike fascination with "bad people" such as mobsters like Giancanni. JFK and RFK took great pleasure from planning screwy covert operations and dealing with "bad people". This probably has something to do with JFK's relationship with his father, who was also very close to mafia figures.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Finally, JFK made bad decisions. Quick decisions, made without much contemplation, this pattern occurs repeatedly in the JFK administration, and ultimately led us to the disaster of the escalation of the vietnam war. Malcom X said the assasination of JFK was "a case of the chickens coming home to roost." JFK dealt with, organized,and unleashed all of these people of questionable character on to the third world. In the end, they came back to kill JFK.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Newmans book is trash. It contradicts the facts-JFK died shortly after carrying out a coup that destroyed the only stable government south vietnam ever had. If JFK was planning on pulling out, why would he destabilize the government before doing so? Bundy tried to expunge from the record the comment about pulling all troops out by 1965, because he thought it was so implausible.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
JFK did want the coup & replace Diem but his plan was to have Diem taken to airport and to Europe.
His plan did not call for the muder of Diem, JFK & his planners were shocked to hear of the murder. Bundy was a Hawk who was always for war no matter what.
045781 2 years ago
Diem was being driven to the airport to go to Europe, when he suddenly decided he needed to go back to the palace.
Then the palace guards were not there to protect him,so he and his party went through the underground tunnel.
His enemies were waiting at the end of the tunnel, threw him in a van and murdered him. That was not part of the JFK plan for the coup.
045781 2 years ago
and drunks are not responsible for the people they kill on the highway either, because thats not what they intended to have happen. People get killed in military coups. JFK is morally responsible for the outcome. It was all his plan. But, it is not just JFK's murder of Diem that is morally reprehensable. The whole plan for the coup was immoral, and very very dumb.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Diem and Ngo wanted to keep the violence contained as a regional war, a civil war, or something like that. Diem knew that if the americans got involved, the north would use this as a propaganda tool to declare a war of liberation. Diem said this many times.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
the last thing Diem wanted was vietnam to become ground zero for the global conflict between communists and the US. But unfortunately for Diem (and for us), this is exactly what JFK wanted. JFK's cabinet came up with "the domino theory". They worked hard to make vietnam the battlefield of global warfare. Eventially, JFK got tired of Diem's objections, and Diem committed the terrible sin of actually trying to negotiate with the north. This was to much for JFK, and he had Diem killed.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
By killing Diem and setting up an american government in south vietnam, JFK was playing right into the hand of the communists. The north, like JFK, also wanted to make vietnam into a huge global conflict. They wanted this because this was the only chance the north had to win the war. If they could show the war was a war to liberate vietnam from the americans, they could get aid from the soviets and chinese.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Stupid JFK FORCED the soviets to intervene by declaring vietnam as the battleground between global communism. There was no way thesoviets or the chinese could walk away from that. So just as Diem predicted, the soviets and chinese intervened with massive military aid, and troops, and technology. JFK got his global war, just as he asked for, by killing Diem, installing a US puppet, and declaring a war with "global communism". ,
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Just as Diem predicted, vietnam was laid to waste, millions died, and in the end, nobody wanted the war, but the killing continued. When you ask for war, you usually get what you ask for. Stupid JFK should have realized he was actually carrying out what the north dreamed of. To kill Diem, the most powerful anticommunist, and to give north vietnam the ability to declare a war of liberation, a huge propaganda victory that compelled the soviets and chinese to make the vietnam war their business.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
If the coup against Diem made things worse for Vietnam, then according to the logic of the hawks. Once S. Vietnam falls then everything in Asia will follow and north America will become Communist.
That did not happen as they said, and the Communist are not evil as they said. If that were so, then by that logic we should still be in Vietnam fighting right now.
045781 2 years ago
the domino theory was JFK's propaganda. There was never such a thing as "global communism". The war became an embarrassment to Nixon, when he was trying to establish relations with China, the country that was supposedly behind all the fighting, according to the domino theory. Nixon abandoned vietnam and lots of people died because of it. He gave the communists everything they wanted, just so he could call himself the "peacemaker".
Jellolion1 2 years ago
"That was not part of the JFK plan for the coup." JFK was an idiot. He never figured out that once you start a war, things rarely go as planned.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
JFK was planning to withdraw only 6% of the troops, probably because he was way over the agreed upon troop number. After the coup, there was never another mention of the withdraw because it was no longer needed. The US was running south vietnam at that point. After the coup, the government crumbled, the vietcong made huge advances in the delta, and the US was forced to send in more support to prevent the defeat of south vietnam.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
On the front page of the stars & strips military newspaper, it read all troops out by 1965.
Before JFK was killed the whole month of Nov. the war was being won. And after his murder the war was suddenly being lost.
045781 2 years ago
" And after his murder the war was suddenly being lost. "
Thats right. After JFK destroyed the government, the war was being lost badly. Lodge told LBJ that "the will to fight seems to have died with Diem." He also said after the coup, "vietnam was going to hell in a handbasket." The post coup was totally the opposite of what they expected, because what they expected was totally unrealistic, and Diem, Nolting, Harkins, and Taylor told JFK this before the coup. The coup lost the war.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
"The coup lost the war. "
Your major problem is that you do not understand that our military planers never had any intention of winning a war. When a General asked Johnson what was the objective in Vietnam, Johnson did not say. He just told the General to just go in there and fight. The REAL objective of being in Vietnam was to Make Money for Johnson and his Cronies.
045781 2 years ago
oh really, is that my problem? You dont think MacNamara was trying to win the war? You dont think Westmorland was trying to win? You dont think LBJ was trying to win? You win the prize for saying the stupidest stuff I have ever heard.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
MacNamara was a big time Kiss Ass, he would do anything just for the sake of power. He knew the war was all about money, now he did say Kennedy was pulling out in 65, do you want to hear it on Utube? let me know ........
045781 2 years ago
So JFK went from the disaster of the coup, when they werent sure if south vietnam would survive a week, to guaranteeing that they would pull out in 1965. Who could guarantee something like that? They had no idea what would happen between 1963 to 1965, yet you say they could guarantee they were going to pull out? That is 1) irresponsible 2) extremely naive 3) plain stupid.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Bush stood on the deck of an aircraft carrier in 2003 and declared victory. Look how well that went. It is just like JFK saying we would pull out in 1965 right after he destroyed the government and the vietcong were taking vast expanses of real estate in the delta. You guys are a bunch of fools. He said it for propaganda effect. You really think he was so stupid as to think he could guarantee a pullout in 1965? JFK's disasterous coup was what forced us to stay and escalate.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
did he talk to JFK's ghost to detrmine that? The direction JFK's policies led us was straight to escalation, which of course was the reason for the coup in the first place. If you think JFK was going to pull out, why do you think he carried out the coup? JFK thought he could win the war, just like LBJ, in fact much more so.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
immediately after the coup, several things were obvious 1) the generals that took over were incompetant, corrupt, and they didnt want to fight. 2) suddenly the south was losing badly to the vietcong 3) the north declared a war of liberation in response to the coup, and started to receive massive soviet assistance, then they got into the fight. JFK's "limited war" had just blown up, and after the coup, it would not have mattered who was president in the US.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
If JFK was the kind of guy to back down to the soviets, why did he take us to the brink of nuclear war in the bay of pigs? He would have gone all the way too, if it was required. They were ready for a nuclear exchange. Vietnam was small potatoes compared to that. JFK said he was opposed to pulling out of vietnam. He pulled off the coup so he could expand the war. He would never have pulled out of vietnam.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
care to add a time, date , and place to your quote? and who was the general? This is complete bullshit.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
I am looking through my files to see the general was and when he was told that by slimeball Johnson. I' ll get back to you on that shorty.
045781 2 years ago
yes, you do that. And also get back to me with an explanation why JFK would carry out a coup to destroy the government of south vietnam at the very moment you say he was planning to pull out. If JFK would have lived, why would the outcome have been any different. After the coup, they couintry was in free fall. They had no stable government,. JFK wanted to win the war. The war that he expanded with his coup. He would have done the exact same thing Johnson did.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
If JFK had surrendered and pulled out at the moment the north stepped up the war, what do you think would have been the response of the republicans in the middle of the cold war? What would the american people think. Remeber, up until late 1968, the war was very popular in the US. People would say JFK lost free vietnam. He was a coward, and ran just when it started getting tough. The democrats would never win an election ever again. JFK would never have backed down.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
while you are looking through your "files" , why dont you go read the text of NSAM263Then tell me where in there it talks about pulling out troops in 1965. It was an off the cuff remark by JFK, and it embarassed his staff so much that they tried to get the comment expunged from the record. But then again, I guess everything I have read is the richard M Nixon doctored version of US history, right? .
Jellolion1 2 years ago
after the coup, it became quite clear that that JFK's chosen coup plotters were totally corrupt, nobody had any loyalty to them, all of the good civil servants left the government, and the military didnt want to fight and die for american puppets. They fully expected the US to do the fighting for them. This is why things went downhill so fast after the coup. It didnt have anything to do with JFK's death, but rather Diem's death in November, 1963.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
The war might have started to go bad after the death of Diem, but 21 days later Kennedy was not changing his plan to pull out of Vietnam. In the mean time JFK had an appointment to be the target for a shooting gallery. Then Johnson started a massive build up of troops (victims) so he and his buddies could profit.
045781 2 years ago
it is not even logical. If JFK was pulling out, why did he destroy the only stable government that south vietnam ever had? Was that his parting gift? JFK said to Cronkite that he was opposed to pulling out. JFK killed Diem so he could run the war without interference from a pesky democratically elected leader of a sovereign country, who was apposed to JFK blowing up his country and killing all the civilians. Diem was close to working out a settlement with Ho, so JFK sped up the coup timetable.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
how did lbj profit? and who were his "buddies" that profited? You dont think anybody would notice if the president had illicit income? Thats just simpleton speak.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
the troop buildup was in 1965, oh bright one.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
thats right. after the coup, the government JFK picked was totally incompetent and corrupt, and they didnt want to fight. Thats why they were losing. And also the troops were not loyal to them.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
NSAM 263 said all troops out by 1965 then when Johnson became president he wiped his ass with it. And shortly afterwards started a Massive buildup of troops, because he was always a hawk and he profitted from the contracts to Brown & Root.
045781 2 years ago
NSAM 263 said all troops out by 1965 then when Johnson became president he wiped his ass with it. " I can tell you have never even read NSAM 263. It says NOTHING about bringing all the troops out by 1965. The only version you know is oliver stones. NSAM 263 called for the removal of 6% of the troops, probably because 1) they were way over the agreed apon limit of 12000, and 2) it was normal troop rotation. Go read it. There is no mention of 1965, or anything about a complete withdraw.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
" I can tell you have never even read NSAM 263"
NSAM 262 was divided in two parts when the pentagon papers were being cooked up. So then people like you come along and take the pentagon papers as gospel.
Howard Hunt who hated Kennedy told told Charles Colsen who worked for Nixon he could tamper with Kennedy papers to make it look like Vietnam JFK fault.
045781 2 years ago
"NSAM 262 was divided in two parts"
Correction: NSAM 263 was diveded in two parts.
This way people like you come along and take the bait.
045781 2 years ago
what bait? NSAM 262 is pretty clear and simple. And it says nothing about pulling troops in in 1965. So JFK was writing in a code that only people like you can understand? Yes, a secret invisible code, that nobody else can see. Yes, thats the ticket.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
There was no code, only that the pentagon papers ripped it up.
And showed only part of it in their fraud.
045781 2 years ago
Nixon was in power 5 years after JFK was dead. Do you realy think a president can go into the archives and start changing historical documents with nobody noticing? If he could do that, the first thing he would have changed would have been his own records like the smoking gun tape. What you say is so far fetched. Go read NSAM 263 for yourself.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
If the documents were changed by Colson as you say (laughing), how is it that you know what the original one says? Did you read them before Nixon came into office? If you know this, why doesnt anybody go back and get the originals? Did anybody else read the document before Colson changed them, or just you? What about JFK's cabinet? Surely they would notice if Nixon changed key historical documents. It is not even logical.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
My boy, My boy, My boy, you really are naive
just look at the pentagon papers.
Pentagon papers have no mention of Jfk being assassinated they just say president on 23 or 24 of Nov. met to talk about Vietnam.Mainstream media has a fool like you duped.
045781 2 years ago
what about all of the presidential communications and postion papers of JFK? That is the material that historians use. Oh, but thats right, those are the work of richard nixon. I am not suprised you dont want to believe the pentagon papers, because they show how JFK carried out the coup to escalate the war, and show how badly that failed.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
so why do you think JFK switched the ambassador to vietnam in mid 1963, from Nolting, to a conservative right wing republican, Henry cabot lodge? Why do you think JFK carried out the coup and destroyed the only stable government of south vietnam? Any evidence in the archives that contradicts your little fairy tale you simply say Nixon altered the documents, or somebody else altered the documents. Your version has no supporting documentary evidence at all. But I dont think you worry about that.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
that was the intentional focus of the pentagon papers. It was supposed to be a study of the vietnam war, not about the JFK assasination.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Pentagon paper was a Scam from start to finish.
They pulled the wool over your eyes....
045781 2 years ago
NSAM 263 is recorded in the government archives, and its pretty hard to alter what is in the archives. You dont think anybody would notice if Nixon started changing Kennedy's presidential documents? What you say is just stupid.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
No because nobody said anything about the pentagon papers, the one's that really know write books. But mainstream media is just repeating pentagon papers.
045781 2 years ago
Nixon or any of his plummbers could have access to anything and change everything and you believe it. That is so easy. Just look at the pentagon papers to see what rewriting history is about.
045781 2 years ago
In 2003, Bush stood on an aircraft carrier and declared victory, and predicted the US would be out of Iraq very soon. Does that absolve Bush of everything that happened after the aircraft carrier speech? JFK would have NEVER NEVER pulled out of a popular war and accept defeat at the hands of the communists. JFK was the biggest hawk ever. LBJ hated the war because it took away from his efforts at creating his Great Society. JFK didnt have anything like the Great Society.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
JFK had the civil rights bill, but a shooting free for all stopped him from getting any credit for that. He also wrote NSAM 255 which took away The CIA ability to start wars like the congo, Iraq, Vietnam. Which was ignored by all his generals, because they did not want to get into that business.
Kennedy started to realize he did not have that much power over the Military complex.
045781 2 years ago
JFK didnt have control of the military? Dont you think that would be a serious problem? You are really exaggerating. JFK was commander in chief. If he didnt have control of the military, a lot of people would take notice. That would be called a military coup. Can you give any example of where the military refused to obey an order from JFK? JFK gave the green light for the bay of pigs. The coups were JFK's idea.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
In 1961 Military was pushing JFK to add 100,000 troops, but JFK sent in only advisors. JFK signed NSAM 255 for his general to get in the business of covert actions NOT the cia. They ignored that order, during Missile Crisis his Generals ordered a High War Alert status which he complained about. He was banging his head against the wall, he could not win with the Generals.
045781 2 years ago
thats bullshit. Diem wouldnt allow any more than 12000 troops, yet JFK was lying to Diem and he put in 18000. Absolutely nobody was calling for 100000 troops in 1961. A few people predicted that a full blown war would require 100,000 troops , but JFK laughed at them and said they were out of their minds. In 1961, people thought north vietnam was no match for US military. Tell me, who was "calling for" 100,00 troops in 1961? You are absolutely wrong.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
The situtation changed more in Washinton than in vietnam after JFK was assassinated.
watch?v=0xtGyrqSpNo&feature=related
045781 2 years ago
The situtation changed more in Washinton than in vietnam after JFK was assassinated
well that isnt saying much. Of course the vietnamese didnt really care what happened to JFK. The biggest change for them was 2 weeks earlier, when they lost their indpendent voice in government, a voice that had their best interests in mind, replaced by american puppets who were put there to facilitate the expansion of the war.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
you are confused. Nobody was telling him to send 100,000 troops. The exact quote from his advisor, George Ball, was "it would take 5 years and 100,000 troops to achieve victory. JFK said "george, you are crazy." In fact there was no way JFK could send 100,000 troops because Diem and Nhu were against it.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
You just proved that JFK did not want to sent any troops (victims)
JFK knew the whole War thing was a Scam to make money.
Johnson was stupid, he did not know about the Scam at first.
Anyway Johnson just wanted to make money in Vietnam.
045781 2 years ago 8
@045781 This is fiction. Have you read the transcripts of LBJ's office recordings? He knew very well what the deal was in Vietnam. LBJ spent most of his adult life in government. He knew his way around Washington.
Jellolion1 1 year ago
@Jellolion1
Explain Operation Northwoods if JFK had control over the military.
maccagirl56 1 year ago
@maccagirl56 you mean the fact that it was never acted upon? Never saw the light of day? JFK was ultimately in control of the CIA. He used the CIA to carry out the coup in Vietnam, and kill Diem.The CIA analysts get paid to run scenarios, play test ideas, but certainly hardly any are ever carried out, which is a good thing.
Jellolion1 1 year ago
@Jellolion1 Shame on you for still spouting your revisionist lies after I so thoroughly & factually disproved your outrageous claims elsewhere on YouTube. As you well know, Lodge sent CIA agent Conein to assassinate Diem, in defiance of White House orders. This has been confirmed by the only eyewitness to these events, Lodge's military aide de camp who was there when Lodge was on the phone with Conein. You are an obsessive Kennedy-hating disinformation propagandist & nothing more.
WALRU11 1 year ago
@WALRU11 well if it isnt mr JFK apologist, still making up his own version of history to cover up the fact that JFK was our most militaristic president, obsessed with his assasination plots,secret wars in asia and the not so secret wars in vietnam. JFK set the stage for the disaster of the 1960's. Its too bad he died and never saw the epic disaster of his making. Its hard to deny whats in JFK's presidential papers. JFK wanted Diem out so the US could run the war in vietnam.
Jellolion1 1 year ago
@Jellolion1 Look, you rightwing revisionist nutcase, having so thoroughly, factually, & irrefutably kicked your sorry Kennedy-hating ass completely out of the polemic ball park in our last series of exchanges, I do not wish to now lower myself by bothering to stoop to swat such a fallen mental gnat as you. You're wrong, sick, & in need of therapy. Anyone who wishes to learn the truth about the Diem murder can simply refer to my earlier posts. Lodge & Conein countermanded JFK orders. Period
WALRU11 1 year ago
@WALRU11 you are the right wing revisionist. Its sad that you obviously dont even realize it. Supporting the Kennedys fanatical militaristic policies, covering up the huge attrocities, whipping up the cold war to win votes, carrying out assasination and attempted assasinations all over the world, and putting us right in the middle of the vietnam war.
Jellolion1 1 year ago
@Jellolion1 You're foaming at the mouth again in one of your typically baseless insane rants. Nothing that you say holds even an iota of truth. Pure invention from a diseased mind. Apparently, after being corrected by facts and composed by pharmaceuticals, you manage to function for a short while before again going off your meds & raging madly in another period of episodic delusion, So go back & re-read my earleir series of posts that wholly refute your crazy theories. You're sick. Get help.
WALRU11 1 year ago
@WALRU11 oh yeah, like I am goinfg to spend the time to go back and read your fictional rants. I dont do conspiracy stories. I like to stick to the facts. You on the other hand, seem to have this passion for coming up with the most fucked up sorry excuses. You and Romain Gary have something in common. You are both in love with JFK. Ahh,yes. Wally walrus and Gary romain. Now there is a fruity salad.
Jellolion1 1 year ago
@Jellolion1 "Fruity salad?" As someone with the fruity moniker, "Jello" you'd be the expert in gay relationships. And it's obvious that you're a "lion" with no pride. Re: "Conspiracy theories," that's all your pathetic posts are - one big conspiracy fabrication: the "evil" JFK conspiring against the noble hapless Diem. Please! The only thing you stick to is your pants, you sad little wanker.
WALRU11 1 year ago
Respond to this video...hey wally, did you ever see the photos of JFK's naked parties in the white house, where they all ran around the white house with animal masks on? Yes, the most perfectly functioning human mind, humping floozies every day, popping fistfulls of pain pills, dropping acid, and running around the white house naked, with an elephant mask over his face.
Jellolion1 1 year ago
@Jellolion1 You "like to stick to the facts, huh?" Produce an authenticated photo supporting your outlandish fictions, you lying rancid meat sack. Where's your proof? Come on, big mouth. Show us the tell-tale photos. Back up your hateful venomous rants. Otherwise, you pathetic little piece of fecal matter, kindly STFU!
WALRU11 1 year ago
@Jellolion1
JFK only motive was to end the war that has already been proven, he was not after the money in Vietnam like that killer Johnson.
JFK had a noble cause in stopping all wars for all time, that is why Johnson and his buddies killed Kennedy.
Also Johnson was going to be dropped from the 64 ticket., so he needed Kennedy dead or else he was looking at jail time for his crimes.
045781 1 year ago
@045781
wtf ru on??? johnson had nothing to do with jfk assasination,
grettoz 1 year ago
@grettoz
Wake up from ur slumber it's already been prove that Johnson was a key pricipal in the plot to kill JFK.
045781 1 year ago
@045781
dont be one of the brainwashed sheep!!! i have researched it for over 25yrs, i know no one liked johnson? but he had nothing to do with jfk murder
grettoz 1 year ago
@grettoz
I have been researching this for 35 yrs. and there is way too much evidence to that points here to Johnson.
The brainwashers are the warren omission believers ,stay away from that crowd.
045781 1 year ago
@045781
havent been researching to well then have you?? theres not a shred of real evidence that points to johnson & thats a fact, i will stay with the facts...
grettoz 1 year ago
@grettoz
Johnson's henchman Mac Wallace left his finger print in the TSBD how's that for a fact.
You seem to be in denial.....
045781 1 year ago
@045781
wow thats shocking news bud!!!!!! was his prints found on the rifle?? no, oswalds was tho!!!! case closed....
grettoz 1 year ago
@grettoz
You asked for the proof that Johnson was involved, I gave you one piece of proof.
Ozwalds palm only showed up after he was dead, hmmm sounds like a palm print from a dead Ozwald.
Well better dead since when Ozwald alive no print of any kind showed on the rifle.
045781 1 year ago
@045781
not true my friend, LT carl day of dallas police found a print on it & phptographed it, this was before it was handed over to the fbi, dallas police confirmed it was oswalds hand print before he was assasinated!! youstill havent made a point of johnsons involvement anyway??
grettoz 1 year ago
@grettoz
The Dallas Police at that time were the most corrupt Police Dept in the country.
Even the Police Chief said years later that they really had no proof Ozwald did any shooting.
Johnson's own mistress says he was involved up to his eyeballs.
045781 1 year ago
@045781
they were no more corrupt than any other police force, dallas police would have loved to have cleared the assasination up themselves, this was taken out of their hands by the secret service & the fbi... surely you dont believe the crock of shit she came out with?? she was a pure fantasist!!
grettoz 1 year ago
@grettoz
Yes the FBI & the SS took control but Dallas Police were corrupt enough to help the Fed's in the lies the cover up.
Johnsons mistress has some serious reseachers believeing her story.
Her story is backed up by johnsons attorneys.
045781 1 year ago