Rachel Maddow Show: Stimulus Showdown and Debunked Nonexistent CBO Report

[Agogaraxis]

maddow watchers are chicken necked ninnys who are afraid of the moon, certain colors, cars cows snakes and guns, and care more for pets then their spouses

[bonfirejovi]

lol lol lol how is that stimulus working out for you rachel?

[NothingToImprove]

The stimulus spent $300,000 per job saved or created. Rachel Maddow was proven wrong.

[drksun]

really or are you just another ignorant republican

[papasBarnantiques]

Poor old gal she is such a gay dumbass.

[joeyyb]

jesus this is the dumbest bitch of all time

[RepublicOfIndia]

"Democrats better hope that Obama is not Lincoln..."

"Lincoln led a civil war in America in which more than 600,000 Americans died..."

"Lincoln a good soul, freed slaves... Lincoln only spend $700 while in office..."

So what you are saying is that, in summarization, Lincoln is a good soul who only spent 700$ in office, but Obama should not be like him because he led a civil war that killed over 600k Americans...?

Wait to show no hypocracy, right wing representative!

[bacchus1975]

lmao classic Rachel.

[UNCERNTROPY]

Sad to see MSNBC utrn up the propaganda now with the new democratic takeover. MSNBC is owned by GE, so obviously it's not a legitimate news source. Doesn't matter if it's Fox News, CBS, MSNBC, etc., if it's mainstream media, it's loaded with propaganda.

RIP USA

1776-2009

[CaptainWalton26]

Nobody trusts Geithner Rachel. Obama can go out on the campaign trail all he wants, the people aren't buying in.

[RepublicOfIndia]

"...Obama can go out on the campaign trail all he wants, the people aren't buying in."

You know, I'm starting to think the right was living in a deep hole for the last 20 years ago or so... Rewind to when Obama became president and millions of people globally cheered his name. Remember that time? Oh YEAH! They did buy it! Your bad! :D

Maybe the right would stop crashing the world into walls if they kept their head out of their ass when driving it around, and realize they LOST. L-O-S-T.

[geodesicks]

Republican = FAIL.

[joskemom]

Damn this Maddow person is either dumb or just completely blinded by the glow of O. This bill is spending to the limit -- 2/3 of which wont kick in until 2 years from now--so much for stimulus. Now the bill changes every few hours because they are still adjusting it, but this bill could send the economy deeper into the dumper. Pres O is showing a lack of leadership trying to run this crap down our throats because the different earmarks in this bill are jokes.

[joskemom]

As of today only 37% of Americans support this crap bill. Pres O is stumbling big time because he does not know how to fix the economy. He relied on Nancy P and the gang to right this bill and if going down in flames. He got the bi partisan vote however because 11 dems voted against it in the house. Now more dems are coming out against this bill. All those people who were looking for hope and change from Pres O, I hope they have a plan B.

[soulfuluniverse]

I think she's even starting to give Jon Stewart some heavy competition the way she's been handling politics and the media!

[elfielvr]

Rachel is amazing. That's all I'm gonna say.

[FugitiveCon]

True to form from MSLSD!!!

[wheelnchef]

this guy, Maddow, is a moron. I guess since mr obama won by 3% all repeblicans should abandon their priciples. Obama wants to spend this country into a depression and thank god there are people that stand against that.

[Shisho2k]

I'm guessing one of those "priciples" is not using spell checking (browser built in or otherwise) when trying to appear smart on "teh" Internet.

Yeah I was talking to Obama yesterday, and that's what he said. He wants to spend all the money, and he wants a greater depression than all depressions ever combined!

[wheelnchef]

You see thats what you dont understand and neither does obama. He doenst even realize what hes going to do to this country. And you are more interested in typos than the substance of my post. You obviously dont have the brain power for this conversation.

[Shisho2k]

A fairly standard excuse.

I personally don't care about your typos, that wasn't even the point. You're obviously more about assumptions than anything else, because almost every sentence you bless us with seems to have one.

You're just oozing with brain power. I must back away now!

[nospacesallowed]

well, um first off, 7 percent, which is huge in Presidential politics. 7 percent is about what Bush the senior won by and the Republicans declared it a landslide.... so yeah McCain lost in a landslide.

And second, we are already in a depression. There is no denying it at this point.

[egrimnes]

The only "trickle down" that you will ever see is when they are laughing at you as they are pissing on your back. Conservatives don't care about the average person, only them selves. They will spin you a good yarn but history has proved that Dems can manage money better.

[wheelnchef]

every pay check you get is trickled down from the top. Have you ever gotten a paycheck from poor man?

Hey jackass, conservatives are the average person. Liberals are the low life scum that wait around for handouts instead of earning their keep.

[egrimnes]

wow... you really need to get out more. You are so out of touch with reality.

[wheelnchef]

whats the matter you dont like when other people paint with such a broad brush?

you can lump all conservatives into one small group and its ok. I do the same thing and im the one out of touch.

[egrimnes]

Calling conservatives the average person and saying liberals are scum is painting with a wide brush. If conservatives are the average then why did more than 55% of the populous vote for Obama. Again... you are clueless and out of touch. Take an economics class or two.

[wheelnchef]

i know that is painting with a broad brush that was the point..

Clueless is saying that the 45% of americans that didnt vote for the messiah are somehow not average. You are a moron who cant think your way out of a wet paper bag.

[egrimnes]

Really? I have a degree in economics and a retirement plan that can't be touched. Nice try calling ME a moron though... maybe you should look in the mirror and your conservative party that took all your money while you were asleep. Obama isn't a messiah... he is just a better man than your party could produce... but if you want to think of him as one, go ahead.

[wheelnchef]

Degrees dont impress me or prove that you have any common sense. Im not impressed with a retirement plan either. No one took my money. Its right where i left it after i earned it.

My party didnt produce shit for this election. So were stuck with shit either way.

keep up with the assumptions.

[egrimnes]

I dont make assumptions I state facts. Fact is your party had the past 20 years to prove there methods work. They failed, they had specifically the past 8 years and they failed us to the point our economy is where it is. THAT is fact. And I sure a hell am not going to listen to an uneducated moron such as your self tell me your shit doesn't smell. The whole world can smell it now.

[wheelnchef]

your facts are swrewed up. It was the governments "tinkering" with the free market that screwed things up.  Can you say community reinvestment act? When the govt forces/promotes poor lending practices in the interest of fairness you have our current state of affiars. The past eight years is your narrow minded excuse for everything. GWB had he economy booming until the shit hit the fan with the bad mortgages. FACTS

At what point did i discuss the odor of my feces?

[booley]

As a Liberal I get hand outs? Then why am I busting my ass for money?

BTW, has anyone ever taken the time to discover where the top gets the money to "give" to us poor slobs on the bottom?

Seems that the execs at the top aren't the ones actually making the products that makes the money which the "top" then trickles a portion down to the bottom.

Those at the bottom do. And they buy the products.

So the "top" is just a middle man taking a cut of the money from the work of the bottom.

[booley]

Oh I'm sorry.

Pointing out that the non wealthy actually make things , buy the bulk of those things and thus actually drive the economy is "COMMUNISM"!

Yes, millenia of economic history was just a communist propaganda.

Say what you want about cons (the ones at the top that is) when it comes to PR they are brilliant. they have actually managed to get chickens to buy stock in KFC

[wheelnchef]

So by your twisted logic, The poeple at the top never worked a day in their lives and didnt earn the money they have. And these huge companies would run like clockwork without the top guys, and if we just let the proletariat run the show everything would be fine. Those people at the bottom have jobs because of the people at the top whether you want to believe it or not.

I love how you think the people at the top dont buy anything either. I have a job because "wealthy" people buy my product,

[booley]

wheelinchef-"So by your twisted logic, The poeple at the top never worked a day in their lives and didnt earn the money they have. "

IF my "logic " is truly Twisted then it should be easy for you to prove. Show that products a company produces are the work of the execs and not the people actually making the product.

Can you do that? OR are you limited to "red scares" and implying people who produce are whiny ingrates?

[wheelnchef]

See if you can fit this in your simple little mind. Execs dont physically produce the product. They manage the companies that do. They handle the adverising the market research, the product research and developement, the bidding of contracts, the budgeting and managing of capital, ....and the list goes on. I guess you want joe assembly line guy to handle all that.

Stop comparing what you have to what others have and live is much more enjoyable.

[booley]

Always can tell when someone doesn't have an argument. They think being insulting is the same as making a point.

You have yet to actually disprove anything I said.

3 points undermine your own argument:

1. Without a product, execs would have nothing to manage.

2. A number of companies have a flattened or non hierarchical structure.

3. I never said execs don't work (but you gloss over the fruit of their "labor")

The point still is the bottom drives the economy, not the top.

[wheelnchef]

1. youre right but it is a symbiotic relationship. One cannot survive without the other.

2 some companies cna work that way not all

3 Everyone drives the economy. Without the top (the owners of the companies) the bottomhas no job and no money to spend.

Have you ever gotten a paycheck form a poor man?

[RepublicOfIndia]

"Without the top (the owners of the companies) the bottomhas no job and no money to spend."

Why does the right insist so much on creating the "top" and "bottom" in the world? What is wrong with the "all"? What do you have against equality? We try to save humanity, yet you right wing politicians only care about the "top" of humanity.

And an alternative to top and bottom is all equal and government power, which makes sure the country runs properly. That is communism, mind you.

[wheelnchef]

the top and bottom are not created. its a natural occurance. Take away the ability to be at the top and you take away incentive which takes away growth. Social/communism doesnt create anything it only runs what is already there. Capitalism creates and moves the country fowrd.

You assume that i only care about the top but without actually being there that would mean i dont care about myself. Everyone has the same opportunity. If you want more dont steal from those that have it, work for it.

[screamingdissent]

The trickle down effect did not work. The top 5% have gotten richer yet the bottom 95%, the poor and middle class, have gotten worse. Benefits are now a luxury. The rich only care about profitis, their interests are not in paying fair wages or giving benefits.

Also, the top 5% didn't earn their money. They were born rich. But, go ahead, keep believing you and the super wealthy are on the same side. Their propaganda is working wonderfully.

[screamingdissent]

One more thing: capitalism does not create. Every recession, or depression, that occurs ends up outweighing the profits capitalism creates. There is a reason why capitalism's profitable decades are called "bubbles," in other words they werent based on reality of economic growth.

There is an old saying: capitalism only survives because socialism is there to bail it out. If government does not bail out the private sector, we will go into a depression.

[wheelnchef]

this country was builgt on capitalism, not govt handouts. go read a book. Socialism is always implemented afte capitalism creates the wealth then socialism/communism confiscates it.

[screamingdissent]

The country was not built on capitalism. Some banks were unfairly promoted by the government over other banks. There was no competition. Throw your highschool history book in the trash. It's time for you to learn the REAL history of america.

[wheelnchef]

screw the banks. im not talking about banks, im talking about hard working aamerican citiezens that built this country that worked from the bottom up. People that built businesses through a free market and capitalism.

Where sould socialism possibly get the wealth to spread without capitalism? Nowhere!!

[screamingdissent]

hard working americans are getting laid off. hard working americans are getting their salaries and benefits reduced. Hard working americans are struggling while the richest are laughing at them.

The richest 10% of america do not represent the average hard working americans.

[wheelnchef]

you act as if people are getting laid off just for the hell of it. They get laid off because the business is not doing well. Because the "rich" are not making as much money adn dont have it to pay the little people. The rich are not laughing at the struggling americans that is just the demonic picture you put on them to make your stupid points. Where is it written that no american will ever have to go through hard times. Life isnt fair. its what you make if it not what the govt makes for you.

[screamingdissent]

Why is it that the middle and lower classes get laid off and the rich remain in power? Yeah, I agree americans are going through some hard times. It's too bad that the rich can't really relate to it.

Here we go again: the myth that you can do anything in life with hard work. There are numerous studies debunking this. The rich inherit their wealth. The government already bails out the rich, so im not sure why you don't want the government to help the poor.

[ADlibertyRP]

i dont want the government to help out anyone, because to do thisthey ave to hurt multiple other people.

[ADlibertyRP]

Because the rich people were working hard in high school, and getting laughed at and made fun of, while he present day poor people were having fun in high school. maybe that is why they are laghing.

[ADlibertyRP]

hence why we have problems in the economy, not capitalism

[ADlibertyRP]

you think the bubble comes from capitalism! have you heard of the federal reserve! they jst print money, because they think this creates wealth, this is what creates bubbles, government interference, not freedom

[dalecampbl7]

@ADlibertyRP capitalism hasn't failed the first time, back when communism came into life, it was a harsh reaction to capitalism...workers rebelled because when you make almost nothing per hour, and you work in conditions where your hands can be cut off and you can lose ur life mining for coal, creating clothing, shoes, cutting meat, people are going to be pissed. Go Read Upton Sinclair's the Jungle. The bubble was created by Bush to lie as we went into IRaq knowing full we didn't have surplus

[wheelnchef]

the only propaganda is coming from your side. Stop believinghta trickel down is the handing of money from the rich to the poor. It is not a conscious effort. Its a natrual occurance. Once again, ive never gotten a paycheck from a poor man. Somehow my paychecks always came from someone richer than me. I guess you coldsay it trickled down. Take your head out of your ass and see reality.

[screamingdissent]

It's not a natural occurence. The trickle down effect is not a natural result of capitalism. Indeed it is the opposite of capitalism, because capitalism requires "the invisible hand of competition." there is no competition with top-down economy; there is just monopolies finding for ludicrous profits

The trickle down effect is based on Keynesian economics. The government GIVES the top huge subsidies and tax breaks.

That is not capitalism. That is socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor.

[wheelnchef]

Ive ginven you the siplest example possible of how wealth "trickles down" and you cant seem to grasp it. How is it possible that we cant let businesses go under tha are "too big to fail". Because too many people will lose their job? It will desroy the economy? Why is trickle down poverty such a reality but trickle down wealth a falicy? You cant have it both ways.

Look how well socialism works in venezuela. I cnat wait until the US is like that shit hole.

[screamingdissent]

The wealth is not "trickle down." The only thing you've provided is circular logic. There are numerous studies that show the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. According to "trickle down economics," the poor and middle class should be doing better as the rich class grows.

You must answer this question: why has the middle class's lifestyle improved while the rich's wealth increase.

The rich is bailed out by the government all the time. it is not natural.

[wheelnchef]

the poor are not getting anywhere because of govt programs. Whenever govt tries to improve things and sticks its nose where it doesnt belong it screws things up. If there werent govt programs that take away incentive the poor would be better off.. Ill agree with you that the govt is the source of many of the problems but not a true free market and capitalism.

[RepublicOfIndia]

"So by your twisted logic, The poeple at the top never worked a day in their lives and didnt earn the money they have."

So by YOUR twisted logic, the people at the bottom did not work a day in their lives, either? You think farmers sit down in their house while their crops grow themselves?

THIS is why I am a communist. The scum of the right degrades the food producers whom, without, we would starve to death.

Ever wonder why America would die of hunger if other nations stopped trading?

[wheelnchef]

Not sure how you came to that conclusion. I never implied that anyone doesnt work.

Who is degraing food producers? I used to work on a farm but i chose to do something else.

America was self sufficien for a long time. We could do it again.

How sould those nations that stopped trading with us make out without the flow of money we provide.

You are warped

[booley]

Oh and since you seem to have missed my logic, let me reiterate.

The Non wealthy make the products we buy. They are the ones that buy most of those products. And since our economy depends of people buying things, the non wealthy( the bottom) are the ones who actually drive our economy.

IF the top 1% moved to mars, we would just get a new top 1%. Remove those not making over 100,000 (a little under 85% of us) and the economy collapses.

So 85% of Americans don't deserve better?

[wheelnchef]

Widen your perspective. Wealthy people my not buy things that the "poor" do, they differnet things that spark different areas of the economy. who do you think supports the luxury industries? Not the people tha work in them.

Americans dohave it better. Just because they dont have what the top1% have doenst make their life worthless as you would like to believe.

get off your class warfare.

if the top 1% gets replaced then its obviously a natural neccesary entity.

[wheelnchef]

dont forget this little tidbit either.

If in your ideal world you got rid of the top 1% you would loose 40% of federal tax income. Where can that be made up? From the bottom 99%. Which means teh bottom's taxes will go up significantly. How does that stimulate the economy?

[mike1111qq]

THIS GUY HATES BUSH...EVEN SHAVED

[mike1111qq]

put the palosies rubbers back on this Stimulus .. it wont feel as good but your still getting fu$%ed just as hard....

[KentuckyKid84]

Has ANYBODY read what socialism actually entails? Go to Wikipedia.

It seems more logical to have taxes taken and put back into the economy than making tax cuts (even though 33-34% of the stimulus contains them) that could just sit there. If the taxes were redistributed evenly to Americans, THAT would be Socialist and wrong. THAT is NOT what would happen w/ this plan. Lower-lower middle class families hit hardest benefit, and the upper class is allowed to continue to prosper w/ lower taxes.

[zdwade]

wow rachel is done now. she worships the ground the dems walk on. both stimulus are offensive to the american people.

[crazyed4]

Gee! How may more socialists can MSNBC put on the air. This women is a friggin idiot not because she's dyke

[jrubin22]

Dem politicians are spineless: can't get stimulus package passed, can't prosecute Bush & Co. Why should we think they can protect us from foreign enemies when they can't even deal w/ Limbaugh?

[StepUPNJ]

I really like Rachel but she is way off base here. To suggest that there should be no debate over this "stimulus" is just foolish. There should be SO much debate that the stupid thing just DIES. We fell for this ploy too many times...if we don't get Saddam will we get a mushroom cloud; if we dont pass the bailout the entire world will collapse.

This new "stimulus" is BOGUS. You don't patch a hole by digging deeper.

[DasHortH]

Us politics is a amazingly scary and comedic spectacle, where crazy idiots get to play with nukes if they scratch enough backs..

[exweez]

who is this guy and why is he so angry,is it because his name is rachel

[j0hnny9999]

The Republicians have to realize that their ideas have led to an illegal war and an economy in the gutter. The election results scream for them to sit down and shut up!

[sauerkreatur]

wow how can one women be smarter than the entire GOP

[EducatedNobody]

Someone please tell her she can stop campaigning....Sheesh... Get back to the news... Anyone else tired of pundits? where did all the journalists go?

[TheodoresWorld]

She is an idiot.

[popworld7]

Yeah, it's the Democrats fault. You know they are the ones who have been clamoring for tax cuts to the rich, deregulation of corporations etc for the last 30 years and not the Republicans. In other news Santa Claus really exists.

[dgtubing]

I have to agree with johnedwards1968, that is quite a load of horseshit!

[johnedwards1968]

WOW! What a load of horseshit! The dems were in control of nothing. If this tripe is the best that conservatism has to offer then you guys are in REAL trouble.

[NewYorkViolets]

Agreed. Ssteacher33: paranoid and self-delusional. Probably doesn't have a high school education. Pity him, don't hate him.

[il128]

The Democratic party is so weak.

[billthebutcher2]

That perfectly sums up the GOP. They will literally make something up to prove a point that they are wrong on, and do so with absolute crazy certainty.

[rkcoon]

OK... so why in Tartarus is Obama's crew holding back right now when they could actually be cleaning house? Either I am missing something, or hes being too chickenshit to go in and stomp on some toes.

[xdir]

Its Obama trying to be bipartisan and inclusive. give the republicans an inch and they bite off your arm.

[eljefereal]

Barack Obama knows he's the smartest person in the room. There always seems to be a sense of 'Don't make me do this' when it comes to what you're talking about.

I remember the Penn. debate vs. Clinton where he kept answering the Ayers question over and over and then after numerous confrontations over it, he finally used the 'Well Bill Clinton pardoned two members' card.

As tempting as it is to steamroll everything, in the long run, this is the smarter move.