the taliban was orignally formed by the Pakistani gov't. They put them there as an insurence policy from being surrounded by USSR, and India. Both of which they DO NOT trust. The only prisoners that they have handed over to us are the small time guys, the keep the big guys incase we(US) decide to invade Pakistan after. They don't trust the US and India surronding them, just like when the soviets were there. Good ol' frontline PBS preaches the truth. Watch the Obama's War episode, and others too.
well the pakistanis did arm the taliban, they did exist before. if you mean they made them powerful, hard to deny. they were the guardians of the trade routes and NOT part of the mujjahadeen, as the media always seems to miss. i agree, the propaganda that clouds this conflict is beyond repair. take for instance the idea pushtuns and arabs like each other. that i find hysterically wrong.
@TheMercilessEye: Be silent! Keep your forked tongue behind you teeth. I have not passed through fire and death to bandy crooked words with a witless worm!
Great vid ! Actually, no, the speech wasn't confusing at all: it was a cookie cutter speech, a cut and paste job, if you will...completely devoid of historical context and truth, in other words...a bunch of blatant lies. Have heard them all before, from many administrations, whenever it came to more troop deployments.
oh really lat i checked it was still debateable. However it will be amuzing to watch when the day comes. WHen everyone realizes that the vatican, Islam and all the others were just excuses to rise to power. And everything they grew up with shattered. That will be a day long remembered.
debatable is relative. anyone can debate based on no facts. theists debate based on nothing. thats not a debate. there is no evidence for a god, therefore, until there is, he doesnt exist. if they refuse to accept it, nothing can be done about that. bottom line is, no matter how one would uncover any turth, they'd still believe.
Im sorry i guess i should have explained further. I meant to say that humanity will die as we know it. Then a world where people have no values anymore begins. Since i said that all the lies would uncovered. So if people realised religion was a lie why would they create another lie. THey wouldn't and therefore violence would be the only substitute to fill the void. This would probably hurt the muslims the most if it happened to them
what i am saying is i deal with people one on one. ideas don't scare me as much as they scare you. ideas cant hurt me. people can, i deal with people as individuals, the very foundation of our country's founding. in america you can call islam a fairy tale anywhere.
i have no idea what muslim clerics say. i don't care what horseshit baptist ministers spew either. if people want to believe in fairy tales, they have that right. if a bunch of other stupid people want to listen to someone talk about the same fairy tale every friday night it their right. once they cross the line to actually doing what they say they believe is right, we inject them with life dissolving fluids. its that simple.
who is it you'd like to put behind bars? like any criminal regardless of motive, they should be (and will be) punished. islam is 1.6 billion folks, some of them with nukes. if i reek of selfrighteousness, you reek of an essential misunderstanding of the kind of generational change you want to impose in a year.
we have been talking about nations with the two largest muslim population in the world. a pretty good sample, as in 400-500 million or so, that are secular states. the muslim people in these countries voted for a secular government. they are moving ahead, industrializing. i prefer not to cast undue hostility towards a group of people whose culture has islamic ties...but it growing past it. rather than make them defensive hence hostility...well
what i am saying is, if someone does something in the name of islam that is forbidden by secular law, secular law trumps. period. the multiculturalists are learning their errors, look at the rash of conservative election wins in europe. i am in charge of what islam is to me. we are all only in charge of ourselves. to me, islam blows, but i don't live in fear of ideas, i deal with people as individuals regardless of what they claim is their theology.
in america, it is perfectly legal to have any conversation one wants about islam. its happening all over the net and in universities the world over. the smart people get it. a lot do speak out. they just don't the press.
ive said it before, i'll say it again, mohammed with a sociopath. he had a childhood devoid of love. he had fulblown narcisstic personality disorder. he was a micromanager, totally OCD. its possible he suffered from one of several disorders that make you hallucinate. he was a homicidal maniac. the more you learm...as they are educated in science, they will figure it out on their own. a lot already have.
The koran has nothing to do with the facts. The facts in reality are people are rejecting the archaic beliefs in all three books. Arabs have been killing each other long before islam. The culture of violence in the mioddle east predates islam. Like it or not, most muslims do not live in the middle east. The bible is also by many folks read without interpretation, but the trend is towards a more secular view. The world over. The exception to the rule is not the rule.
Yet. If muslims are consistlenty rejecting the archain notions, it means that islam has less influence than other cultural aspects. You are arguing the tenets of a faith that is being rejected by its members more so every day. Muslims are rejecting with their actions by living and voting for secular ideals.
Ww2 was hardly the worst war the world has seen. War in general has become less violent throughout human history. Europe is making burkhas illegal and mosque ornamentation illegal. Like it or not the world is changing. Even conservative forecasting groups like stratfor see thses trends this way. To say the world isn't trending towards pluralism is silliness.
Yet, they do it. All religious folks show signs of hypocrisy. its not blind faith to empirically see secular states with large islamic populations. It may be against islam to eat pork and drink alcohol but because its not illegal in indoneisa and india. That's positive. The trends are not faith. They are empirical models of secular success.
Its not about faith in secular islam...lol. its about generational changes we see before our eyes. I guess you missed the protests in iran? Noone here said not to challenge islamic doctrine...but rather than encourage secularism you react to it negatively rather than foster it. That does nothing but divide. You wish to divide and pit folks against each other and tat causes war. I prefer to encourage the positve trends that we see are working.
Its not false. We have models where it has done so. Its ridiculous to think its instinctually different. People change over the course of time. Indonesia and india have the two largest muslim populations in the world. They drink scotch and go to strip joints and buy cases of coca cola just like you and me. Atheism is the fastest growing belief system in the world. There are globalist factions of christianity too...the term catholic literally means universal.
Its not potimism its fact. Regardless of ideology where there is development we see a uptick in secular influence. You can be scared of muslims all you want. Its no skepticism you suffer from, its fear. A few hundred dead in indonesia over a decade is hardly the threat crack is in baltimore.
No it doesn't. Lol. As islam is not monolithic neither are jihadist movements. You greatly exaggerate the threat. You can't scare me with muslims dude. Lol. Listen. Less people have from terroist killings in the wolrd the past LA in two
Well, thank goodness for bodies like the supreme court that tell the pc police to go fuck themselves huh? The world is decidely much more open to free speech than it has ever been in human hisotry. The trend is towards greater expression of dissent, not the opposite. The bali attacks led to the arrest and almost complete destruction of the financial network to these islamic clans.
We have cleared these hurdles with other religions. Sihk, hindus christian and jewish sects that were once monolithically fundementals (by mandate of their scriptures) have all had reform movements. The same can bne cited from texts of all religion.
The pipeline is a dead idea. We can't even build a highway and that benefits asian minor oil companies, not ours. We keep an eye on china in the sky and through other means...afghanistan offers uis nothing in way of surveillance of china.
islam needs a reformation. its an ideological war that cannot be won by them. the family structure because of economic pressures is changing. its changing rapidly. women in developing nations with large islamic populations such as india, indonesia, and turkey are being forced to work. when women work, women learn. they meet and discuss inequities. see where i am going with this? when women have money they become empowered....islam is losing and they hate it.
indonesia is the largest muslim country, the third largest democracy and fourth largest country in the world. indonesia should lead the way in reforming islam.
But what would happen if say all this world's lies were brought to light all at the same time. What if everyone around the world realised that religion is nothing more than the product of one's imagination. Would we destroy ourselves? it seems so after the comments i have read regarding the extreamism involved with the cult of the easter bunny (islam)
i think first, if all the lies were uncovered, there would be one big fucking orgy world wide. people would drink and fuck everywhere. then we'd be hungover. then we'd all go back to living our lives basically the same way. we'd fill the reigious hole. so many of us already have.
Hmmm it seems Obama is just another player in the grand performance which will birth the eventually cataclysmic war of reckoning for everyone. Unfortunately THe only way afganistan will ever fall is by the same tactics used in world war 2
Certainly the jakarta post disagrees. They rail against political islam consistently and go after ismlamist poltical parties regularly using exactly that term. Megawati won a presidential election using the fear of indonesia becoming an islamic state. There are secular muslims, its not a monolithic ideology
I have nothing to argue about. Islam is an ideology based in fairy tales. I am a die hard atheist, you get no orgument from me. I was simply saying there is a differecen between the threat of islam and islamism
Go to my batphilo page. I've done many mohammed is a pedophile videos. The man was nothing more than a sociopath. Mohammed was a barbaric megalomaniac and islam an oppressive animstic ideology. Yet not all muslims are barbaric or pedophiles
My issue with it hezbollah is still a viable entity teetering on legitmacy. A terrorist group with international legitmacy is much more dangerous than a rogue syndicate. The fact that jimmy carter and noam chomsky and their ilk legitimize hezbollah makes them accepted in some circles. That is dangerous pacifism.
continueing on the powers that be are playing three dimensional chess while to be honest with you, you and other vloggers and blogger on the internet tubes are playing tiddy winks. besides they got world's population where they want them drugged up, confused, dumb and stupid but thats my opinion.
At lwast in chess you have a chance at winning and something to show for it. This is now a worthless endeavor. Obama is playing politics with peoples lives.
but theres something strategical important in Afghanistan they want and the people screw them they are pawns in game unfortunately. like veit nam was about tin . wars are part of living tim until everyone get rid of their egos, the beatings will continue.
afghanistan strategically does a few things. one it distracts russia, we are imposing on their "near abroad" china isn't likely to be happy with american troops literally, next door. its a chess game, its not that we want or need it, its just that it throws a wrench in russia and china's strategy. think:our monroe doctine. now imagine being china, russia, iran with western troops in their backyard. see where i am going?
i been thinking tim whats there in Afghanistan, what is so important that the government is willing to send men and women to die. what is strategical important mmm.. its a foot hold for the oil pipeline. fuck this islam bullshit its a cypher. nation states are not the problem its how they are run. domestically you have too many people telling the other half what to be, how to believe, what to where. including athiests hence that attittude bleeds into the world
saddams iraq only took to islam after desert storm, it was decidely secular before that. lets stick to islam, invoking nazism muddies the conversation, look up godwins law. the debate is open about islam, its getting louder and louder.
that is simply a false metahpor. look its apparent youre one of these "i know everything and everyone else is wrong guys" but hezbollah is a much more active and dangerous organization, better funded and armed than al quaeda could ever hope to be. they are responsible for tens of thousands of deaths.
@Battim, The official story is we are in Afghanistan cuz we got hit by Islamic extremists on 911 that were based in that region. We wanted payback and justice, the world thought we should have it. We let the terrorlord slip away in Tora Bora (He resides NW Pakistan in my estimation) and are now busy building a better Afghanistan to make up for our mistake so we look good and not like fools. It seems to be about saving face there. Any occupation plan is pie in the sky.
I don't trust Pakistan cuz they have extremist forces in place that could take control at any moment in some "Order 66" StarWars style. Their government might be friendly to us today but that can change overnight. Couple that fact, with their nukes, missiles and subs to launch them off the coast of the USA, they are the most dangerous threat at this moment. Something tells me that they like to stay covert though, as a base for their movement to spread to other nations. So they are safe.
and i agree with your assessment that islam is a way of life. it is practiced in many different ways. i've lived in a few muslim countries, some govern secularly and others do not. political islam is islam directed governance.
Islam is a way of life, recently, in many regions it's been pushed into a more politically active roll. This occurred when Arabs attempted to kill off all the Jews, who outnumbered by several times kicked their asses badly time after time.
They thought the secret may have been religious fervor. They decided to build fascist societies and teach this world wide
To those behind this it was never about religion, which was merely a tool to gain power, a bit like "global warming" cultism in west
See, Muhammad took Islam, which was the light of the world during the dark ages of Christianity, into it's own dark age ... and they are in it still. That was also about political power, not religion, and the little people were the tools, just as they are always, just as they are Obama's (actually the entities who support Obama now) tools.
Its always about promising the world to & then using the poor to crush opposition and gain power, then the poor suffer worse than anyone under oppression.
Islam as it's set up now is out of control, a mortal enemy to all others in the world. Some things to keep in mind, to cut through the BS smoke they blow
Muhamads words in the Koran are understood to be the PERFECT INFALLIBLE WORD of ALLAH
All non believers must be destroyed. A command direct from ALLAH
Non Muslims are not seen as people, so all that good stuff about how to treat people, doesn't mean you
They are commanded to lie, deceive until strong enough to kill all infidels
See the followers of Islam, like the followers of climate change fraud, like those who don't see health care reform is being bought by paying the big corporate and other interests at OUR EXPENSE and it's about control, not helping the little guy ...
all those are fine examples of idiot sheep, and they are dangerous as all fascists can be. Ignorance + Zealotry = danger
You must understand the enemy to be effective in fighting them.
The true enemy hides behind the idiot sheep that they push.
Sorry, off issue of Afghanistan, but relevant as background details and principal paradigm contributors being in perspective always are.
The main problem with Afghanistan is actually what is good about Afghanistan from a certain perspective, perverted by Islam like a deadly incurable virus.
As flawed as civilization in Afghanistan has seemed for thousands of years to us, it was sustainable as the Indian tribes in the US were & others.
Our "superior" civilization, WILL blow up in our faces.
hezsbollah controls and manipulates lives in the regions they control in lebanon. hezbollah using human sheilds and placing missle commands in neighborhoods have caused untold thousands of deaths, not to mention the rocket attacks that have killed hundreds. denying involvement simply makes them cowards, yet still responsible.
oh, we heard that, then he contradicted himself by claiming we would be training their security forces and working to legitimize the central government, im sorry how is that not natiion building? lol. seems to me he implied he'd be the authority to allow a powershare with the taliban...how is that not nation building? enjoy your war president. you know, its the just fight. lol.
and btw, if we arent nation building why are ten of thousands of contractors, including a geologist friend of mine, being paid billions by our government, in afghanistan as we speak, literally, nation building?
blackwater is security. we have billions of private and public sector money going into infrastructure there. these contractors need protection. i never implied i thought obama would do an iran contra play. that is superfluous. that reform is a shell. its more fragile that glass, and it comes due on 2016. thats a long way away.
Blackwater (or whatever they call themselves today) are former company men and current arms dealers. America is and has been that most prolific arms dealers for at least the last fifty years. You do the math. If Somolia invented anti-gravity tomorrow all of a sudden they would need security, if Yemen discovered the fountain of youth they'd need us to come and protect it..
From who is the question. US maybe? .It's rackeetering and you know it. I don't think Obama knew it.
that has nothing to do with my statement. triangulate much. my original statement was about the thousands of contracotr there nation building. you brought up blackwater for no apparent reason (and obama is funding them too) you said ibama said we wont nation build, yet we are. enjoy your war president. you partisan are so brainwashed, you hate war until your president wages it. lol. obama is a failure so far.
the conversation was about you denying we are nation buidling. we are nation building. you said because obama said so we aren't occupying, we are occupying. you partisan windbags are so funny "bash didn't win iraq or afghanistan" then you say we are occupying nations. what morons. you occupy after victory, not before. obama is occupying, nation buidling and imposing our value on afghnaistan, all things he said in his speech he isn't doing.
and for your further hypocrisy ridden rants, XE, formerly known as blackwater, is in big with obama. your little savior is nothing more than bush with a closer haircut and a better grip on the language.
Ok. since you can' t seem to talk about multiple topics and since you insist we're nation building and we aren't coming home in 2011 ( all the time insisting XE to be "security") let me ask you what you think is going to be the probable outcome of this god awful shitty mess?
btw - And this isn't anything but an innocent question - did you ever serve? just curious.
Secretary clinton said we weren't coming home not me. If training a security force and military wghile propping up a worthless government isn't nation building what is? To your question, yes. I've done videos on that
Exactly, anyone who's watched Obama's actions after listening to what he says knows, what Obama says is completely worthless. It means nothing. It's just a method of swaying public opinion. The major effect his words have on anything is that some times, as in Gitmo and Afghanistan, Obama has to back them up ... he didn't want to, but politically he had to. Thus troops are involved in a mess he really would rather have been out of. It would have been been better politically, but for his big mouth
I think hezbollah training camps might have them beat. I agree iran for certain is and was the biggest sponsor of terror in the world. You make a valiod point, they never follow the money, it always leads right back to themselves. Is it a war on islam or political islam? There is a marked difference
You reserve the right to change your mind? Any time? : )
Well, that conflicts with my initial opinion gathered when you were attempting to conflate that ranting cue ball with the bleached beaver patch under his lip with Stalin, Hitler, the Cookie Monster, Count Chocula and the Devil I think. Real stretch man lol.
I've always told people, if I see I'm wrong about something you won't get a chance to rub it in, because I'll be agreeing with you.
im sorry i have no idea what this is in response to. youtube comment system makes it tough sometimes to tell what comment some things are a response to.
You can deal with Afghanistan, it's just a matter of what you have to do to get it done. Is the result worth what you have to do?
Several possible answers. 1. Kill everyone you can't tame. Most countries have done this in the past. Greece did it. The Hebrews did it. Rome did it. The Egyptians did it. Lot of people did it, almost every big power in the past, did it. USA did it and Australia did it
You could go for long term behavior modification. Just destroy anyone who offends case by case...
I was talking strategy where you should explore all possibilities without regard to anything but winning. Later you weed out the morally prohibitive. That planning stage gets more politicians and groups in trouble when presented to the idiot sheep as actual plans.
Still we are playing at war here, it's all politics, it's all Vietnamed up.
All this is, is a good way to get good guys killed and make a mess, so I agree. If we can't actually fight a war to win, it's reprehensible to stay there.
We are forcing military troops to make sure prisoners are Marandized for hells sake. It makes me sick to my stomach just thinking about the idiocy we implement while our troops face death. It's enough to make those guys so mad they fixate on coming back and taking shots at some politicians. Every person is the most important in their own world, even our military guys who are the most giving people I've ever known in my life.
omega, you have no idea how nice it is to have someone besides me on youtube make statements such as this. the horseshit this administration is putting our military through applying domestic law in the battlefield is beyond baffling, its downright dangerous. naval seals who have given, literally, their lives to our country being tried as common criminals for punching a mass murderer in the mouth is beyond logic.
It's not that confusing. Obama is consistent. He said what he said about prioritizing Afghanistan so he could say Bush's policy was bad. Pretty simple until you have to implement your own and your priority's leave national security as something you don't really think about.
Obama's thought process:
Issue = important, because power is important, elections are all that really matters.
Leadership = What the hell is that? Will that bring power? Get me elected? If not why bother with it?
That's a snort, that partnership invention was an excuse, not a real circumstance.
You forget battim, that Obama had a strategy during the presidential campaign. He had it all figured out. We needed more troops in Afghanistan and our screw up in Iraq caused us to under prioritize. Remember?
The thing is Obama doesn't put much concern into what goes on in Afghanistan, he cares solely about how it affects him politically. His ENTIRE STRATEGY CRITERIA? Only to counter what Bush admin had done
so far, i dont disagree with you. i think the obama's need to be the anitbush is standing in his way of true leadership. i also think that tactic politically, if you are correct, in the end won't help him.
We're there to show these people the values of Apple Pie and America god damn it! And we didn't bring enough bombs to do it! :P
In all honesty, Afghanistan is Afghanistan, we'd have been better off to let the Soviets have it back in the 70's and not have provided the rebels support. They'd have killed Bin Laden too. And they probably still would have collapsed.
The thing that makes me really sick is didn't Bush do the same with Iraq? It just seems as if we are on a carousel that will never stop. Also, isn't Afghanistan fighting us with the weapons we gave them to fight Russia? It just does not sit right with me at all.
well the surge in iraq, however one correlates, seems to point to a better occupation. as per weapons, if you mean the taliban, the answer is no. the taliban was not part of the mujhahadeen that we funded and trained through our proxy pakistan
i am sure you didn't hear wrong. the media consistently misleads us with facts that aren't real. i am certain you did hear that, its not your fault, its the lazy media
The policy seems to be more about splitting the difference between different proposals than getting the job done.
If we're going to go in in force, then the objective has got to be to win it. Then how does it make sense to announce the duration of the surge and limit it to 18 months?
I'd be willing to go along with a surge just because there are so many Afghan women who want to go to school or work, and men who hate wearing beards. But there has to be a will to win, otherwise skip it.
Splittmg the difference gets both sides going after you. As for womens rights...how is obama inviting the taliban into a power sharing mode helping that?
The lingering question is, what is a win in Afghanistan supposed to look like? Do you change the hearts and minds of a foreign nation with foot soldiers? Hardly.
I think if they took a regional approach, that is, set up small regional governments that allow a tribal transition to a confederacy of sorts we could almost make sense of it. After the fact the groups will fight and we will wither have afghanistan turn into several states or the chaos it was before we got there.
Been waiting and he went so wishy washy with this it will be a domestic political nightmare. Both sides can attack this position and will. It just sounds like a bad excuse for an out.
Hey how ya been? This isn't quite vietnam but it is afghanstan..maybe it more appropriate to call it the new great game. Vietnam long term helped many se asian countries avoid communist geoploticial influence. Vietnman was an ashtray when we were done, we lost face but thailand malaysia indonesia philipines etc etc avoided communist influence with that distraction. Afghanistan doesn't offer us these bonuses.
To move a culture to a similar government, or way of interacting with the rest of the global community,requires gentle persuasion,not available from a predator drone.
while Im glad Obama is our president...I do not agree with this move ......America is falling apart...al this borrowed money for war...for what? Afghanistan is where Empires go to die.
The US is bankrupt. We can't pay for the wars we already have unless the international bankers and China agree to hit the reset button on all US debt. If they do that, then the US can continue business as usual. Somehow I think its the U.S.A.'s turn to suffer unless the people stand up and take responsibility for themselves instead of relying on the government to do it.
30 billion is a drop in the bucket compared to the real cost of obamacare (closer to two trillion not the 850 billion they claim). That said I agree with you...the government is trying to impose itself more and more on the economy and I am unsure there is a damn thing we can do about it.
I would be a happy man if I thought that this country could actually survive long enough to spend 2 trillion (fiat) dollars on healthcare. No, I take that back. I would be dismayed that we have leaders who were capable of actually convincing other countries to lend us the money.
That was not one of his better speeches. It was confusing, including the portion about nation building; I could have sworn he said we *wouldn't* be doing any nation building.
Of course. And he also said we wouldn't occupy. We are occupying. He said we wouldn't impose our values, but demands elections anda secular governent. Douible talking horseshit. He is bush in sheep clothing.
India and indonesia both have developing and successful democracies with a large muslim population. That is because secular law supercedes sharia law. Getting rid of sharia law is the key. Protecting human rights above protecting brutal sharia practices can ensure slow generational change.
18 months to nation build in a country so unconquerable that even Gengis-freaking-Khan himself, the greatest general ever to launch armies across the face of earth, did'nt hold it?
A country nicknamed "The graveyard of empires"?
Yeah right Obama. More like 18 months before he flies some predator drones over the Afghan countryside with a "mission accomplished" banner streaming from behind.
Why did'nt he just get up and tell us that it's going to rain skittles this year from Santa's sleigh?
I hate skittles. If santa tosses them I will find antiaircraft to gun his cavity promoting ass down. This plan makes no sense at all. I love the talking heads gearing this up. Rachel maddow looks like such a blundering moron this week. Its hysterical listening to her change her mind based on partisanship alone. This whole thing is funny and so sad and lost all at once.
As long as foreign powers think they can change things...and they always seem to think that, it will be screwed up. Its like africa...until they join the world with a more modern outlook and not oogie boogie islam magic there will be chaos. When will the world see the correlation betweeb political islam and oppressive backwards nations?
Damn, during the parts of the speech I could stomach before shaking my head and heading back to my office in disgust, I could've sworn I was listening to LBJ. without the Texas accent, or Nixon's later "coming back with honor" bullshit.
Afghanistan is not vietnam. That said it is a quagmire. Vietnam had at least american ionterests at heart. I see nothing that indicates this is in our self interest.
Certainly didn't mean to imply it was, Tim. It's the rhetoric that is indistinguishable. I was listening, believe me; I drew the next-to-last cutoff number in the lottery.
I was just ahead of you in the lottery, and this is more than just deja vu. I heard this all before and I know how it all turns out. With US helicopters taking off from the roof of the US embassy in Kabal with people scrambling to get on.
Yeah, my brother was serving on the USS Enterprise at the time, as part of the airlifting. Pretty gruesome. Couldn't get the choppers off the ground because of all the people wrapping themselves around the skids.
Speaking of the lottery: Remember sitting around the TV while the numbers were picked? Talk about classic suspense programming. Buddy of mine drew #1. Never saw him again.
the taliban was orignally formed by the Pakistani gov't. They put them there as an insurence policy from being surrounded by USSR, and India. Both of which they DO NOT trust. The only prisoners that they have handed over to us are the small time guys, the keep the big guys incase we(US) decide to invade Pakistan after. They don't trust the US and India surronding them, just like when the soviets were there. Good ol' frontline PBS preaches the truth. Watch the Obama's War episode, and others too.
mbenson2790 1 year ago
well the pakistanis did arm the taliban, they did exist before. if you mean they made them powerful, hard to deny. they were the guardians of the trade routes and NOT part of the mujjahadeen, as the media always seems to miss. i agree, the propaganda that clouds this conflict is beyond repair. take for instance the idea pushtuns and arabs like each other. that i find hysterically wrong.
battim 1 year ago
@battim acually we armed them too during the 70's, just a thought..
mbenson2790 1 year ago
we armed who in the 70's?
battim 1 year ago
@battim cia supplied arms/supplies to taliban troops when USSR was invading them
mbenson2790 1 year ago
WOW how the fux did this video slip by me, sorry bout that, Well said bro!!!!!
~Rage
NragedXX 2 years ago
americans are going to die protecting War lords, criminals and a very corrupt government, lol
if u ve a son in the military keep him at home, dont let him dle for OBAMA BULLSHIT
australia5151 2 years ago
Comment removed
TheMercilessEye 2 years ago
i touched on this in comments. even if obama's policy is strategic, i think these goals can be acheived without afghan occupation.
battim 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheMercilessEye: Be silent! Keep your forked tongue behind you teeth. I have not passed through fire and death to bandy crooked words with a witless worm!
GreatGrumbledook 2 years ago
do you rmmbr youtube one, two years ago? One word to describe it now - what would you choose?
TempletonIII 2 years ago
I've been doing videos on youtube for over three years. The word id use? Manipulated
battim 2 years ago
Great vid ! Actually, no, the speech wasn't confusing at all: it was a cookie cutter speech, a cut and paste job, if you will...completely devoid of historical context and truth, in other words...a bunch of blatant lies. Have heard them all before, from many administrations, whenever it came to more troop deployments.
55ella2007k 2 years ago
Lie tend to have the purpose of confusing the facts...no?
battim 2 years ago
18 months is a lifetime when compared to the average American's attention span.
hrosemd 2 years ago
Agreed
battim 2 years ago
oh really lat i checked it was still debateable. However it will be amuzing to watch when the day comes. WHen everyone realizes that the vatican, Islam and all the others were just excuses to rise to power. And everything they grew up with shattered. That will be a day long remembered.
Syranus66 2 years ago
debatable is relative. anyone can debate based on no facts. theists debate based on nothing. thats not a debate. there is no evidence for a god, therefore, until there is, he doesnt exist. if they refuse to accept it, nothing can be done about that. bottom line is, no matter how one would uncover any turth, they'd still believe.
battim 2 years ago
Im sorry i guess i should have explained further. I meant to say that humanity will die as we know it. Then a world where people have no values anymore begins. Since i said that all the lies would uncovered. So if people realised religion was a lie why would they create another lie. THey wouldn't and therefore violence would be the only substitute to fill the void. This would probably hurt the muslims the most if it happened to them
Syranus66 2 years ago
its hard to say. the premise i think is faulty. the lie has been uncovered and folks still refuse to believe it.
battim 2 years ago
4 largest population, what does land mass have to do with group dynamics?
battim 2 years ago
what i am saying is i deal with people one on one. ideas don't scare me as much as they scare you. ideas cant hurt me. people can, i deal with people as individuals, the very foundation of our country's founding. in america you can call islam a fairy tale anywhere.
battim 2 years ago
i have no idea what muslim clerics say. i don't care what horseshit baptist ministers spew either. if people want to believe in fairy tales, they have that right. if a bunch of other stupid people want to listen to someone talk about the same fairy tale every friday night it their right. once they cross the line to actually doing what they say they believe is right, we inject them with life dissolving fluids. its that simple.
battim 2 years ago
the religion is a product of ones culture, not the other way around.
battim 2 years ago
who is it you'd like to put behind bars? like any criminal regardless of motive, they should be (and will be) punished. islam is 1.6 billion folks, some of them with nukes. if i reek of selfrighteousness, you reek of an essential misunderstanding of the kind of generational change you want to impose in a year.
battim 2 years ago
we have been talking about nations with the two largest muslim population in the world. a pretty good sample, as in 400-500 million or so, that are secular states. the muslim people in these countries voted for a secular government. they are moving ahead, industrializing. i prefer not to cast undue hostility towards a group of people whose culture has islamic ties...but it growing past it. rather than make them defensive hence hostility...well
battim 2 years ago
what i am saying is, if someone does something in the name of islam that is forbidden by secular law, secular law trumps. period. the multiculturalists are learning their errors, look at the rash of conservative election wins in europe. i am in charge of what islam is to me. we are all only in charge of ourselves. to me, islam blows, but i don't live in fear of ideas, i deal with people as individuals regardless of what they claim is their theology.
battim 2 years ago
in america, it is perfectly legal to have any conversation one wants about islam. its happening all over the net and in universities the world over. the smart people get it. a lot do speak out. they just don't the press.
battim 2 years ago
ive said it before, i'll say it again, mohammed with a sociopath. he had a childhood devoid of love. he had fulblown narcisstic personality disorder. he was a micromanager, totally OCD. its possible he suffered from one of several disorders that make you hallucinate. he was a homicidal maniac. the more you learm...as they are educated in science, they will figure it out on their own. a lot already have.
battim 2 years ago
once you occupy, you already won.
one follows the other. we are in the middle of a civil war at this point, no more, no less.
battim 2 years ago
The koran has nothing to do with the facts. The facts in reality are people are rejecting the archaic beliefs in all three books. Arabs have been killing each other long before islam. The culture of violence in the mioddle east predates islam. Like it or not, most muslims do not live in the middle east. The bible is also by many folks read without interpretation, but the trend is towards a more secular view. The world over. The exception to the rule is not the rule.
battim 2 years ago
Yet. If muslims are consistlenty rejecting the archain notions, it means that islam has less influence than other cultural aspects. You are arguing the tenets of a faith that is being rejected by its members more so every day. Muslims are rejecting with their actions by living and voting for secular ideals.
battim 2 years ago
Ww2 was hardly the worst war the world has seen. War in general has become less violent throughout human history. Europe is making burkhas illegal and mosque ornamentation illegal. Like it or not the world is changing. Even conservative forecasting groups like stratfor see thses trends this way. To say the world isn't trending towards pluralism is silliness.
battim 2 years ago
Yet, they do it. All religious folks show signs of hypocrisy. its not blind faith to empirically see secular states with large islamic populations. It may be against islam to eat pork and drink alcohol but because its not illegal in indoneisa and india. That's positive. The trends are not faith. They are empirical models of secular success.
battim 2 years ago
Its not about faith in secular islam...lol. its about generational changes we see before our eyes. I guess you missed the protests in iran? Noone here said not to challenge islamic doctrine...but rather than encourage secularism you react to it negatively rather than foster it. That does nothing but divide. You wish to divide and pit folks against each other and tat causes war. I prefer to encourage the positve trends that we see are working.
battim 2 years ago
Its not false. We have models where it has done so. Its ridiculous to think its instinctually different. People change over the course of time. Indonesia and india have the two largest muslim populations in the world. They drink scotch and go to strip joints and buy cases of coca cola just like you and me. Atheism is the fastest growing belief system in the world. There are globalist factions of christianity too...the term catholic literally means universal.
battim 2 years ago
Atheism is the fastest growing belief system in the world.
what exactly is that belief system tim?
far as i know they dont have one,unless of course youve just invented one.
popebenadict16 2 years ago
A belief in empricism is still a belief. Its just based in observable data.
battim 2 years ago
the whole Obama speech was depressing standard american patriotic militaristic boiler plate.
He appears to think nation building is like an episode of extreme home make overs.
angryislander56 2 years ago
Its not potimism its fact. Regardless of ideology where there is development we see a uptick in secular influence. You can be scared of muslims all you want. Its no skepticism you suffer from, its fear. A few hundred dead in indonesia over a decade is hardly the threat crack is in baltimore.
battim 2 years ago
No it doesn't. Lol. As islam is not monolithic neither are jihadist movements. You greatly exaggerate the threat. You can't scare me with muslims dude. Lol. Listen. Less people have from terroist killings in the wolrd the past LA in two
battim 2 years ago
Well, thank goodness for bodies like the supreme court that tell the pc police to go fuck themselves huh? The world is decidely much more open to free speech than it has ever been in human hisotry. The trend is towards greater expression of dissent, not the opposite. The bali attacks led to the arrest and almost complete destruction of the financial network to these islamic clans.
battim 2 years ago
We have cleared these hurdles with other religions. Sihk, hindus christian and jewish sects that were once monolithically fundementals (by mandate of their scriptures) have all had reform movements. The same can bne cited from texts of all religion.
battim 2 years ago
why are we in Afghanistan
1-Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline
2-keep eye on china
falcon02012 2 years ago
trans afghanistan pipeline was abandoned. it's a michael moore distortion.
markinu 2 years ago
Michael moore is the wwe of the left in american. He is mind candy for morons
battim 2 years ago
The pipeline is a dead idea. We can't even build a highway and that benefits asian minor oil companies, not ours. We keep an eye on china in the sky and through other means...afghanistan offers uis nothing in way of surveillance of china.
battim 2 years ago
i've done many videos about israel and palestine and antizionists racists.
battim 2 years ago
islam needs a reformation. its an ideological war that cannot be won by them. the family structure because of economic pressures is changing. its changing rapidly. women in developing nations with large islamic populations such as india, indonesia, and turkey are being forced to work. when women work, women learn. they meet and discuss inequities. see where i am going with this? when women have money they become empowered....islam is losing and they hate it.
battim 2 years ago
indonesia is the largest muslim country, the third largest democracy and fourth largest country in the world. indonesia should lead the way in reforming islam.
battim 2 years ago
But what would happen if say all this world's lies were brought to light all at the same time. What if everyone around the world realised that religion is nothing more than the product of one's imagination. Would we destroy ourselves? it seems so after the comments i have read regarding the extreamism involved with the cult of the easter bunny (islam)
Syranus66 2 years ago
i think first, if all the lies were uncovered, there would be one big fucking orgy world wide. people would drink and fuck everywhere. then we'd be hungover. then we'd all go back to living our lives basically the same way. we'd fill the reigious hole. so many of us already have.
battim 2 years ago
All leaders have but one philosopy
To compete and disregarding the costs do what ever it takes to aquire the falseness that is power
Syranus66 2 years ago
Hmmm it seems Obama is just another player in the grand performance which will birth the eventually cataclysmic war of reckoning for everyone. Unfortunately THe only way afganistan will ever fall is by the same tactics used in world war 2
Syranus66 2 years ago
My video didn't taunt it asked islam to explain it
battim 2 years ago
Certainly the jakarta post disagrees. They rail against political islam consistently and go after ismlamist poltical parties regularly using exactly that term. Megawati won a presidential election using the fear of indonesia becoming an islamic state. There are secular muslims, its not a monolithic ideology
battim 2 years ago
I have nothing to argue about. Islam is an ideology based in fairy tales. I am a die hard atheist, you get no orgument from me. I was simply saying there is a differecen between the threat of islam and islamism
battim 2 years ago
Go to my batphilo page. I've done many mohammed is a pedophile videos. The man was nothing more than a sociopath. Mohammed was a barbaric megalomaniac and islam an oppressive animstic ideology. Yet not all muslims are barbaric or pedophiles
battim 2 years ago
My issue with it hezbollah is still a viable entity teetering on legitmacy. A terrorist group with international legitmacy is much more dangerous than a rogue syndicate. The fact that jimmy carter and noam chomsky and their ilk legitimize hezbollah makes them accepted in some circles. That is dangerous pacifism.
battim 2 years ago
Don't Bogart that joint, my friend, pass it over to me.
Otherwise, I just wasted eight minutes and 21 seconds of my.........LIFE........you rambling TWIT!
oriskany 2 years ago
continueing on the powers that be are playing three dimensional chess while to be honest with you, you and other vloggers and blogger on the internet tubes are playing tiddy winks. besides they got world's population where they want them drugged up, confused, dumb and stupid but thats my opinion.
jedimagejoe 2 years ago
At lwast in chess you have a chance at winning and something to show for it. This is now a worthless endeavor. Obama is playing politics with peoples lives.
battim 2 years ago
but theres something strategical important in Afghanistan they want and the people screw them they are pawns in game unfortunately. like veit nam was about tin . wars are part of living tim until everyone get rid of their egos, the beatings will continue.
jedimagejoe 2 years ago
afghanistan strategically does a few things. one it distracts russia, we are imposing on their "near abroad" china isn't likely to be happy with american troops literally, next door. its a chess game, its not that we want or need it, its just that it throws a wrench in russia and china's strategy. think:our monroe doctine. now imagine being china, russia, iran with western troops in their backyard. see where i am going?
battim 2 years ago
yes i do i find it interesting a powder keg with a fuse and a lighted match
jedimagejoe 2 years ago
i been thinking tim whats there in Afghanistan, what is so important that the government is willing to send men and women to die. what is strategical important mmm.. its a foot hold for the oil pipeline. fuck this islam bullshit its a cypher. nation states are not the problem its how they are run. domestically you have too many people telling the other half what to be, how to believe, what to where. including athiests hence that attittude bleeds into the world
jedimagejoe 2 years ago
saddams iraq only took to islam after desert storm, it was decidely secular before that. lets stick to islam, invoking nazism muddies the conversation, look up godwins law. the debate is open about islam, its getting louder and louder.
battim 2 years ago
that is simply a false metahpor. look its apparent youre one of these "i know everything and everyone else is wrong guys" but hezbollah is a much more active and dangerous organization, better funded and armed than al quaeda could ever hope to be. they are responsible for tens of thousands of deaths.
battim 2 years ago
loved this video....i favd it, i really want to make a video response to it.....so ima try to make some time between my work shifts to do that. :)
xoxox
jakluk4 2 years ago
@Battim, The official story is we are in Afghanistan cuz we got hit by Islamic extremists on 911 that were based in that region. We wanted payback and justice, the world thought we should have it. We let the terrorlord slip away in Tora Bora (He resides NW Pakistan in my estimation) and are now busy building a better Afghanistan to make up for our mistake so we look good and not like fools. It seems to be about saving face there. Any occupation plan is pie in the sky.
I don't trust Pakistan.
AlexGrim 2 years ago
trust noone. trust but verify is an oxymoron.
battim 2 years ago
I don't trust Pakistan cuz they have extremist forces in place that could take control at any moment in some "Order 66" StarWars style. Their government might be friendly to us today but that can change overnight. Couple that fact, with their nukes, missiles and subs to launch them off the coast of the USA, they are the most dangerous threat at this moment. Something tells me that they like to stay covert though, as a base for their movement to spread to other nations. So they are safe.
AlexGrim 2 years ago
Pakistan is untrusteable right now. We are still in afghanistan because of pakistan
battim 2 years ago
So you think we are in Afghanistan so we are in position to strike Pakistan at the rightn moment? This is some expensive ploy to be in the region?
AlexGrim 2 years ago
and i agree with your assessment that islam is a way of life. it is practiced in many different ways. i've lived in a few muslim countries, some govern secularly and others do not. political islam is islam directed governance.
battim 2 years ago
Islam is a way of life, recently, in many regions it's been pushed into a more politically active roll. This occurred when Arabs attempted to kill off all the Jews, who outnumbered by several times kicked their asses badly time after time.
They thought the secret may have been religious fervor. They decided to build fascist societies and teach this world wide
To those behind this it was never about religion, which was merely a tool to gain power, a bit like "global warming" cultism in west
omegahpla 2 years ago
See, Muhammad took Islam, which was the light of the world during the dark ages of Christianity, into it's own dark age ... and they are in it still. That was also about political power, not religion, and the little people were the tools, just as they are always, just as they are Obama's (actually the entities who support Obama now) tools.
Its always about promising the world to & then using the poor to crush opposition and gain power, then the poor suffer worse than anyone under oppression.
omegahpla 2 years ago
Islam as it's set up now is out of control, a mortal enemy to all others in the world. Some things to keep in mind, to cut through the BS smoke they blow
Muhamads words in the Koran are understood to be the PERFECT INFALLIBLE WORD of ALLAH
All non believers must be destroyed. A command direct from ALLAH
Non Muslims are not seen as people, so all that good stuff about how to treat people, doesn't mean you
They are commanded to lie, deceive until strong enough to kill all infidels
omegahpla 2 years ago
See the followers of Islam, like the followers of climate change fraud, like those who don't see health care reform is being bought by paying the big corporate and other interests at OUR EXPENSE and it's about control, not helping the little guy ...
all those are fine examples of idiot sheep, and they are dangerous as all fascists can be. Ignorance + Zealotry = danger
You must understand the enemy to be effective in fighting them.
The true enemy hides behind the idiot sheep that they push.
omegahpla 2 years ago
Sorry, off issue of Afghanistan, but relevant as background details and principal paradigm contributors being in perspective always are.
The main problem with Afghanistan is actually what is good about Afghanistan from a certain perspective, perverted by Islam like a deadly incurable virus.
As flawed as civilization in Afghanistan has seemed for thousands of years to us, it was sustainable as the Indian tribes in the US were & others.
Our "superior" civilization, WILL blow up in our faces.
omegahpla 2 years ago
hezsbollah controls and manipulates lives in the regions they control in lebanon. hezbollah using human sheilds and placing missle commands in neighborhoods have caused untold thousands of deaths, not to mention the rocket attacks that have killed hundreds. denying involvement simply makes them cowards, yet still responsible.
battim 2 years ago
You must have heard a different speech than I did because what I heard him say was that we have NO interest in building their nation.
zenguin13 2 years ago
oh, we heard that, then he contradicted himself by claiming we would be training their security forces and working to legitimize the central government, im sorry how is that not natiion building? lol. seems to me he implied he'd be the authority to allow a powershare with the taliban...how is that not nation building? enjoy your war president. you know, its the just fight. lol.
battim 2 years ago
and btw, if we arent nation building why are ten of thousands of contractors, including a geologist friend of mine, being paid billions by our government, in afghanistan as we speak, literally, nation building?
battim 2 years ago
It's ok Tim, you can call it anything you want. Blackwater is still there doing their thing and you can bet the CIA is involved.
Were not in Pakistan already? Right,,like we weren't in Cambodia. I actually respected Nixon for keeping that on the down-low
Hell, you can't stop people from growing and selling opium.
Re: Cocaine+Regan+Contras=Arms+Iran aginst Iraq and where's Norweiga now?
This President won't do that. Were in and out in two years. The end.
Long live health care reform.
zenguin13 2 years ago
blackwater is security. we have billions of private and public sector money going into infrastructure there. these contractors need protection. i never implied i thought obama would do an iran contra play. that is superfluous. that reform is a shell. its more fragile that glass, and it comes due on 2016. thats a long way away.
battim 2 years ago
Blackwater (or whatever they call themselves today) are former company men and current arms dealers. America is and has been that most prolific arms dealers for at least the last fifty years. You do the math. If Somolia invented anti-gravity tomorrow all of a sudden they would need security, if Yemen discovered the fountain of youth they'd need us to come and protect it..
From who is the question. US maybe? .It's rackeetering and you know it. I don't think Obama knew it.
zenguin13 2 years ago
that has nothing to do with my statement. triangulate much. my original statement was about the thousands of contracotr there nation building. you brought up blackwater for no apparent reason (and obama is funding them too) you said ibama said we wont nation build, yet we are. enjoy your war president. you partisan are so brainwashed, you hate war until your president wages it. lol. obama is a failure so far.
battim 2 years ago
the conversation was about you denying we are nation buidling. we are nation building. you said because obama said so we aren't occupying, we are occupying. you partisan windbags are so funny "bash didn't win iraq or afghanistan" then you say we are occupying nations. what morons. you occupy after victory, not before. obama is occupying, nation buidling and imposing our value on afghnaistan, all things he said in his speech he isn't doing.
battim 2 years ago
and for your further hypocrisy ridden rants, XE, formerly known as blackwater, is in big with obama. your little savior is nothing more than bush with a closer haircut and a better grip on the language.
battim 2 years ago
Ok. since you can' t seem to talk about multiple topics and since you insist we're nation building and we aren't coming home in 2011 ( all the time insisting XE to be "security") let me ask you what you think is going to be the probable outcome of this god awful shitty mess?
btw - And this isn't anything but an innocent question - did you ever serve? just curious.
zenguin13 2 years ago
Secretary clinton said we weren't coming home not me. If training a security force and military wghile propping up a worthless government isn't nation building what is? To your question, yes. I've done videos on that
battim 2 years ago
Exactly, anyone who's watched Obama's actions after listening to what he says knows, what Obama says is completely worthless. It means nothing. It's just a method of swaying public opinion. The major effect his words have on anything is that some times, as in Gitmo and Afghanistan, Obama has to back them up ... he didn't want to, but politically he had to. Thus troops are involved in a mess he really would rather have been out of. It would have been been better politically, but for his big mouth
omegahpla 2 years ago
I think hezbollah training camps might have them beat. I agree iran for certain is and was the biggest sponsor of terror in the world. You make a valiod point, they never follow the money, it always leads right back to themselves. Is it a war on islam or political islam? There is a marked difference
battim 2 years ago
You reserve the right to change your mind? Any time? : )
Well, that conflicts with my initial opinion gathered when you were attempting to conflate that ranting cue ball with the bleached beaver patch under his lip with Stalin, Hitler, the Cookie Monster, Count Chocula and the Devil I think. Real stretch man lol.
I've always told people, if I see I'm wrong about something you won't get a chance to rub it in, because I'll be agreeing with you.
There is Nothing gained insisting on being wrong
omegahpla 2 years ago
im sorry i have no idea what this is in response to. youtube comment system makes it tough sometimes to tell what comment some things are a response to.
battim 2 years ago
Nope. You answered them as well as obama did
battim 2 years ago
You can deal with Afghanistan, it's just a matter of what you have to do to get it done. Is the result worth what you have to do?
Several possible answers. 1. Kill everyone you can't tame. Most countries have done this in the past. Greece did it. The Hebrews did it. Rome did it. The Egyptians did it. Lot of people did it, almost every big power in the past, did it. USA did it and Australia did it
You could go for long term behavior modification. Just destroy anyone who offends case by case...
omegahpla 2 years ago
Not sure genocide is in the offing. Therefore...
battim 2 years ago
I was talking strategy where you should explore all possibilities without regard to anything but winning. Later you weed out the morally prohibitive. That planning stage gets more politicians and groups in trouble when presented to the idiot sheep as actual plans.
Still we are playing at war here, it's all politics, it's all Vietnamed up.
All this is, is a good way to get good guys killed and make a mess, so I agree. If we can't actually fight a war to win, it's reprehensible to stay there.
omegahpla 2 years ago
We are forcing military troops to make sure prisoners are Marandized for hells sake. It makes me sick to my stomach just thinking about the idiocy we implement while our troops face death. It's enough to make those guys so mad they fixate on coming back and taking shots at some politicians. Every person is the most important in their own world, even our military guys who are the most giving people I've ever known in my life.
omegahpla 2 years ago
omega, you have no idea how nice it is to have someone besides me on youtube make statements such as this. the horseshit this administration is putting our military through applying domestic law in the battlefield is beyond baffling, its downright dangerous. naval seals who have given, literally, their lives to our country being tried as common criminals for punching a mass murderer in the mouth is beyond logic.
battim 2 years ago
It's not that confusing. Obama is consistent. He said what he said about prioritizing Afghanistan so he could say Bush's policy was bad. Pretty simple until you have to implement your own and your priority's leave national security as something you don't really think about.
Obama's thought process:
Issue = important, because power is important, elections are all that really matters.
Leadership = What the hell is that? Will that bring power? Get me elected? If not why bother with it?
omegahpla 2 years ago
You are ignoring obama on march 25th had a strategy. That strategy failed. Counting on the karzai government to be a partner is a failure.
battim 2 years ago
That's a snort, that partnership invention was an excuse, not a real circumstance.
You forget battim, that Obama had a strategy during the presidential campaign. He had it all figured out. We needed more troops in Afghanistan and our screw up in Iraq caused us to under prioritize. Remember?
The thing is Obama doesn't put much concern into what goes on in Afghanistan, he cares solely about how it affects him politically. His ENTIRE STRATEGY CRITERIA? Only to counter what Bush admin had done
omegahpla 2 years ago
so far, i dont disagree with you. i think the obama's need to be the anitbush is standing in his way of true leadership. i also think that tactic politically, if you are correct, in the end won't help him.
battim 2 years ago
You hit it right on the head Tim. Double talking. ***** c]:-)
1dockthorwho23 2 years ago
on so many levels.
battim 2 years ago
We're there to show these people the values of Apple Pie and America god damn it! And we didn't bring enough bombs to do it! :P
In all honesty, Afghanistan is Afghanistan, we'd have been better off to let the Soviets have it back in the 70's and not have provided the rebels support. They'd have killed Bin Laden too. And they probably still would have collapsed.
Talk about a win win >.>
Lanparth 2 years ago
they make poppy pie there. i here its quite psychodelic.
battim 2 years ago
Five Stars!!
MadBadVoodo 2 years ago
The thing that makes me really sick is didn't Bush do the same with Iraq? It just seems as if we are on a carousel that will never stop. Also, isn't Afghanistan fighting us with the weapons we gave them to fight Russia? It just does not sit right with me at all.
abbyroadme 2 years ago
well the surge in iraq, however one correlates, seems to point to a better occupation. as per weapons, if you mean the taliban, the answer is no. the taliban was not part of the mujhahadeen that we funded and trained through our proxy pakistan
battim 2 years ago
Then I must have heard wrong, oh well.
abbyroadme 2 years ago
i am sure you didn't hear wrong. the media consistently misleads us with facts that aren't real. i am certain you did hear that, its not your fault, its the lazy media
battim 2 years ago
True, the media will say anything to draw fear or get your attention.
abbyroadme 2 years ago
The policy seems to be more about splitting the difference between different proposals than getting the job done.
If we're going to go in in force, then the objective has got to be to win it. Then how does it make sense to announce the duration of the surge and limit it to 18 months?
I'd be willing to go along with a surge just because there are so many Afghan women who want to go to school or work, and men who hate wearing beards. But there has to be a will to win, otherwise skip it.
Ramiiam 2 years ago
Splittmg the difference gets both sides going after you. As for womens rights...how is obama inviting the taliban into a power sharing mode helping that?
battim 2 years ago
Comment removed
bocanutz 2 years ago
If that is the goal, what does afghanistan offer to a globalist agenda? Poppy?
battim 2 years ago
The lingering question is, what is a win in Afghanistan supposed to look like? Do you change the hearts and minds of a foreign nation with foot soldiers? Hardly.
robertpina99 2 years ago
Its a lost propistion, there is no win.
battim 2 years ago
I think if they took a regional approach, that is, set up small regional governments that allow a tribal transition to a confederacy of sorts we could almost make sense of it. After the fact the groups will fight and we will wither have afghanistan turn into several states or the chaos it was before we got there.
battim 2 years ago
Been waiting and he went so wishy washy with this it will be a domestic political nightmare. Both sides can attack this position and will. It just sounds like a bad excuse for an out.
battim 2 years ago
Good video, Tim. The only thing I can add is, please, let's not forget Vietnam. We cannot make that mistake again.
Xaves511 2 years ago
Hey how ya been? This isn't quite vietnam but it is afghanstan..maybe it more appropriate to call it the new great game. Vietnam long term helped many se asian countries avoid communist geoploticial influence. Vietnman was an ashtray when we were done, we lost face but thailand malaysia indonesia philipines etc etc avoided communist influence with that distraction. Afghanistan doesn't offer us these bonuses.
battim 2 years ago
Hello,Tim.
I wonder if the United States is actually "nation Building"
Or Imposing?
Blargaldalien 2 years ago
Do aliens plant build? Death star building? I would say a bit of both, nation building is an imposition, no?
battim 2 years ago
Absolutley Imposing.
To move a culture to a similar government, or way of interacting with the rest of the global community,requires gentle persuasion,not available from a predator drone.
Blargaldalien 2 years ago
Not just gentle but gradual....as in you and I will be dead when it happens gradual.
battim 2 years ago
Like making frog soup.Put frogs into a pot of water,and raise to boiling.If you drop a frog into boiling water,it may jump out.
Blargaldalien 2 years ago
while Im glad Obama is our president...I do not agree with this move ......America is falling apart...al this borrowed money for war...for what? Afghanistan is where Empires go to die.
rextrek 2 years ago
Don't think we are gonna die, but it won't help the cause
battim 2 years ago
I made this video this 5 am only it's 22 seconds long LOLOLOL
Attached same as a vid response...
You're expecting common sense???
VBG
Good to hear you spell it out instead of just poke fun like I did
PappyStu 2 years ago
Ill check out later on my phone. I loves me pappystu responses.
battim 2 years ago
The US is bankrupt. We can't pay for the wars we already have unless the international bankers and China agree to hit the reset button on all US debt. If they do that, then the US can continue business as usual. Somehow I think its the U.S.A.'s turn to suffer unless the people stand up and take responsibility for themselves instead of relying on the government to do it.
jailarson 2 years ago
30 billion is a drop in the bucket compared to the real cost of obamacare (closer to two trillion not the 850 billion they claim). That said I agree with you...the government is trying to impose itself more and more on the economy and I am unsure there is a damn thing we can do about it.
battim 2 years ago
I would be a happy man if I thought that this country could actually survive long enough to spend 2 trillion (fiat) dollars on healthcare. No, I take that back. I would be dismayed that we have leaders who were capable of actually convincing other countries to lend us the money.
jailarson 2 years ago
We always find a way to convince them. This country will survive, it just may not look the same.
battim 2 years ago
That was not one of his better speeches. It was confusing, including the portion about nation building; I could have sworn he said we *wouldn't* be doing any nation building.
robtran 2 years ago
Of course. And he also said we wouldn't occupy. We are occupying. He said we wouldn't impose our values, but demands elections anda secular governent. Douible talking horseshit. He is bush in sheep clothing.
battim 2 years ago
Well, what did you expect? Afghanistan is Obamas war.
bittergunowner12 2 years ago
Its his war now, that is for sure.
battim 2 years ago
I guess his "surge" strategy isn't working so well, even though I think we shouldn't be over there in the first place.
bittergunowner12 2 years ago
Funny how against surges he was a year ago in the debates.
battim 2 years ago
We are there to keep us distract from the man behind the curtain.
JimmerSD 2 years ago
And who is behind that curtain. Monty hall ill take the money please.
battim 2 years ago
Obama lied. Thousands died.
tomthemd 2 years ago
Well technically he did say afghanistan was a just fight. But he isn't fighting anything, he is already conceding taliban legitimacy.
battim 2 years ago
Only way to win in Afghanistan is to rid Afghanistan of Islam. To have a successful sustainable democracy we need to secularize Afghanistan.
psnsam 2 years ago
While I do sort of agree with you, it's an impossible task.
Slug99 2 years ago
Its possible if we are in for fifty years. 18 months is a silly target
battim 2 years ago
India and indonesia both have developing and successful democracies with a large muslim population. That is because secular law supercedes sharia law. Getting rid of sharia law is the key. Protecting human rights above protecting brutal sharia practices can ensure slow generational change.
battim 2 years ago
I know its a cliche but this will sooooooo be his vietnam...
Ranblv 2 years ago
If the ruthless sadistic communist Russia couldn't get a win there, how would the US with the media breathing down their neck win?
Ranblv 2 years ago
Its a different kind of war. We were arming and funding the resistance then. Russia would have won without the technology transfer we gave them.
battim 2 years ago
The metahpor politically is I think fair. Politically. Strategically clearly not the same.
battim 2 years ago
18 months to nation build in a country so unconquerable that even Gengis-freaking-Khan himself, the greatest general ever to launch armies across the face of earth, did'nt hold it?
A country nicknamed "The graveyard of empires"?
Yeah right Obama. More like 18 months before he flies some predator drones over the Afghan countryside with a "mission accomplished" banner streaming from behind.
Why did'nt he just get up and tell us that it's going to rain skittles this year from Santa's sleigh?
WhirlingWolves 2 years ago
I hate skittles. If santa tosses them I will find antiaircraft to gun his cavity promoting ass down. This plan makes no sense at all. I love the talking heads gearing this up. Rachel maddow looks like such a blundering moron this week. Its hysterical listening to her change her mind based on partisanship alone. This whole thing is funny and so sad and lost all at once.
battim 2 years ago
Nice of OweBombYa to let the Taliban know how long they should lay low.
OlGreyWolf58 2 years ago
Yet he clearly was unclear whether we would really leave. His clear plan was as muddy as pond in mudville.
battim 2 years ago
wow in 18 months that country will still be screwed up
roadhouse48 2 years ago
As long as foreign powers think they can change things...and they always seem to think that, it will be screwed up. Its like africa...until they join the world with a more modern outlook and not oogie boogie islam magic there will be chaos. When will the world see the correlation betweeb political islam and oppressive backwards nations?
battim 2 years ago
"Got to get doen to it, soldiers are gunning us down, should've been gone long ago"
battim 2 years ago
Damn, during the parts of the speech I could stomach before shaking my head and heading back to my office in disgust, I could've sworn I was listening to LBJ. without the Texas accent, or Nixon's later "coming back with honor" bullshit.
MSWmson 2 years ago
Afghanistan is not vietnam. That said it is a quagmire. Vietnam had at least american ionterests at heart. I see nothing that indicates this is in our self interest.
battim 2 years ago
Certainly didn't mean to imply it was, Tim. It's the rhetoric that is indistinguishable. I was listening, believe me; I drew the next-to-last cutoff number in the lottery.
MSWmson 2 years ago
I was just ahead of you in the lottery, and this is more than just deja vu. I heard this all before and I know how it all turns out. With US helicopters taking off from the roof of the US embassy in Kabal with people scrambling to get on.
jx14aby 2 years ago
Yeah, my brother was serving on the USS Enterprise at the time, as part of the airlifting. Pretty gruesome. Couldn't get the choppers off the ground because of all the people wrapping themselves around the skids.
Speaking of the lottery: Remember sitting around the TV while the numbers were picked? Talk about classic suspense programming. Buddy of mine drew #1. Never saw him again.
MSWmson 2 years ago