USAFreedomReform you said - "JESUS DID IT ALL ON THE CROSS !! (IT IS FINISHED)
All we have to do is call on the name of Jesus Christ to be SAVED !! "
Didnt work that way in the days of the Apostles and wont now either. The events in Acts 8 and 19 show that people were not recieving the Holy Spirit just by belief alone.
church of christ baptism is scripture and traditional of acts you are blinded by the church of this world doctrine, be ware the world church is easly accepted,trinity ,denouncing jesus,calling names ect.
"Therefore it is pure wickedness and blasphemy of the devil that now our new spirits, to mock at Baptism, omit from it God's Word and institution, and look upon it in no other way than as water which is taken from the well, and then blather and say: How is a handful of water to help the soul ?"
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, LIAR: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he rebukes you SOUNDLY.
"..so also I can boast that Baptism is no human trifle, but instituted by God Himself, moreover, that it is most solemnly and strictly commanded that we must be baptized or we cannot be saved, .. "
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther has clarified his position. YOU LOSE. AGAIN.
" Therefore state it most simply thus, that the power, work, profit, fruit, and end of Baptism is this, namely, to save. For no one is baptized in order that he may become a prince, but, as the words declare, that he be saved."
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, LIAR: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he refutes you CLEARLY.
"To what else do they refer than to Baptism, that is, to the water comprehended in God's ordinance? Hence it follows that whoever rejects Baptism rejects the Word of God, faith, and Christ, who directs us thither and binds us to Baptism."
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" What part of that are you not getting? YOU LOSE.
@Calvinist007 - Seems you cannot even quote yourself correctly.
"@Bobsblues Learn to think past two dimensions, HERETIC; I said that her denomination seemingly had held up Luther, not that she had cited him. Either represent me correctly or SHUT UP."@lllannallll Woman, don't try to avoid the reality: you Campbellite HERETICS seemingly hold up the great Martin Luther.." YOUR REAL QUOTE - "you Campbellite HERETICS seemingly make it a point to misrepresent Luther"
USAFreedomReform " But it DOES NOT SAY WATER ! Why Would Jesus condradict John in Mark 1:8 when John was ordained before Jesus to be his forerunner !! "
It doesnt have to Say Water because THAT WAS WHAT BAPTISM WAS. Jesus would not have had to command his apostles to go out and Baptize, if baptism came upon a believer all by itself just because the person had belief.
@Bobsblues "It doesnt have to Say Water because THAT WAS WHAT BAPTISM WAS"
Again,it is so simple and right before your eyes.What did Jesus tell the disciples to do?
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore,and teach all nations,baptizing them "IN" the name of the Father, "IN" the name of the Son, and "IN" the name of the Holy Ghost:
What did Jesus tell the disciples to baptize "IN"?
@Bobsblues Look,I have no problem with anyone going thru the ritual of water baptism,because Jesus did it, I did it too, but since the day that Jesus ascended into heaven,water baptism was replaced with HOLY GHOST baptism. Call on the name of Jesus to be baptized "IN" the name of the Father,"IN" the name of the Son , and "IN" the name of the Holy Ghost and you shall be saved.
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he refutes you SOUNDLY.
A. It gives the forgiveness of sins, redeems from death and the Devil, gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, just as God's words and promises declare.
Q. What are these words and promises of God?
A. Our Lord Christ spoke one of them in the last chapter of Mark:
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; but whoever does not believe will be damned. "
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he refutes you CLEARLY.
" Q. How can water do such great things? A. Water doesn't make these things happen, of course. It is God's Word, which is with and in the water. Because, without God's Word, the water is plain water and not baptism. But with God's Word it is a Baptism, a grace-filled water of life, a bath of new birth in the Holy Spirit, as St. Paul said to Titus in the third chapter: "
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he refutes you POINTEDLY.
"From this now learn a proper understanding of the subject, and how to answer the question what Baptism is, namely thus, that it is not mere ordinary water, but water comprehended in God's Word and command, and sanctified thereby, so that it is nothing else than a divine water; not that the water in itself is nobler than other water, but that God's Word and command are added."
@Bobsblues Here's Luther, HERETIC: "Through faith alone without works the soul is justified by the Word of God, sanctified, made true, peaceful, and free, filled with every blessing and truly made a child of God, as John 1:12 says: 'But to all who...believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God'. ..... ...our faith...does not induce us to live in idleness or wickedness but makes the law and works unnecessary for any man's righteousness and salvation."--"Freedom of a Christian"
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he rebukes you CLEARLY.
@Calvinist007 - you said - "@Bobsblues Here's Luther, HERETIC: "Through faith alone without works the soul is justified by the Word of God, "
Well , here you go again trying to make it appear that Luther taught that Baptism is a work when you have several times previously been shown the following quote by Luther :
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he rebukes you SOUNDLY.
" If they say as the are accustomed: Still Baptism is itself a work, and you say works are of no avail for salvation; what then, becomes of faith? Answer: Yes, our works, indeed, avail nothing for salvation; Baptism, however, is not our work, but God's '
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he rebukes you BLUNTLY.
@calvinist007 - you said - " @Bobsblues HERETIC, I didn't accuse her of quoting Luther; I said that Campbellites seemingly hold him up as an advocate of the baptismal regenerationist FALSE GOSPEL; " Once again you lie in an attempt to cover your butt, here's your quote, clearly addressed to her saying YOU Campbellite Heretics
"@lllannallll Woman, don't try to avoid the reality: you Campbellite HERETICS seemingly hold up the great Martin Luther...'
@Bobsblues Learn to think past two dimensions, HERETIC; I said that her denomination seemingly had held up Luther, not that she had cited him. Either represent me correctly or SHUT UP.
@Bobsblues Taking into account that all scripture about Peter was accurate,he was one that always wanted to be on the front lines of everything he did. Take the transfiguration for example,Peter wanted to build each one present a tabernacle to take cover in.His understanding was one that seemed to be to act first and ask questions later.
His understanding of Jesus Christ was to Jesus as an understanding to build his(Jesus') church upon.
" And this also we cannot discern better than from the words of Christ above quoted: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. Therefore state it most simply thus, THAT THE POWER , WORK , PROFIT , FRUIT , AND END OF BAPTISM IS THIS, NAMELY , TO SAVE . For no one is baptized in order that he may become a prince, but, as the words declare, that he be saved. "
@Bobsblues "words of Christ above quoted: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved."
He that repents of of his sins(knows he has sinned),calls on the name of Jesus Christ(admits that the gospel of Jesus is true) is baptised (by the HOLY SPIRIT) shall be saved. Water baptism is a ritual following in the footsteps of Jesus Christ.Water baptism by John the "BAPTIST"(one who baptises) was unto the "remission" of sin. JOHN: "are you still with sin,(YES) back down you go"!
@Bobsblues HERETIC, here's Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."-"Pagan Serv. of the Church" Luther has rebuked you; no "spin" on your part can help you now.
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he rebukes you BLUNTLY.
" In these words you must note, in the first place, that here stand God's commandment and institution, lest we doubt that Baptism is divine, not devised nor invented by men. For as truly as I can say, No man has spun the Ten Commandments, the Creed, and the Lord's Prayer out of his head, but they are revealed and given by God Himself , .. continued ...
@Bobsblues HERETIC, hear Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Serv. of the Church" Luther has rebuked you; no "spin" on your part can help you now.
@Bobsblues Here's Martin Luther: "It was not circumcision that justified Abraham and his seed, although the apostle calls it the seal of the righteousness of faith [Rom. 4:11]; rather, faith in the promise to which circumcision was attached, gave righteousness and implemented what the circumcision signified. For faith was the spiritual circumcision of the heart which was figured by the literal circumcision of the flesh."--"Pagan Servitude" No amount of linguistic legerdemain can help you now.
....so also I can boast that Baptism is no human trifle, but instituted by God Himself, moreover, that it is most solemnly and strictly commanded that we must be baptized or we cannot be saved, .. "
@Bobsblues LYING HERETIC, here's Luther in his own words: "It was not circumcision that justified Abraham and his seed, although the apostle calls it the seal of the righteousness of faith [Rom. 4:11]; rather, faith in the promise to which circumcision was attached, gave righteousness and implemented what the circumcision signified. For faith was the spiritual circumcision of the heart which was figured by the literal circumcision of the flesh."--"The Pagan Servitude of the Church" YOU LOSE.
@Bobsblues LYING HERETIC, here's Luther in his own words: "It was not circumcision that justified Abraham and his seed, although the apostle calls it the seal of the righteousness of faith [Rom. 4:11]; rather, faith in the promise to which circumcision was attached, gave righteousness and implemented what the circumcision signified. For faith was the spiritual circumcision of the heart which was figured by the literal circumcision of the flesh."--"The Pagan Servitude of the Church" YOU LOSE
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, LIAR: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he rebukes you PLAINLY.
@ Calvinist007 - you said the following concerning Martin Luther. - "although he was off on the baptism issue"
You have previously accused the early church of being ' confused ' concerning baptism and now you've just come out of your closet and said Luther was "off on the baptism issue"
NEITHER was off or confused, its Calvin and the rest of the OSAS heretical mess thats OFF.
The following quote by Luther fits your heresy perfectly
@Bobsblues HERETIC, hear Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."-"Pagan Serv. of the Church" Luther has rebuked you; no "spin" on your part can assist you now.
" Therefore it is pure wickedness and blasphemy of the devil that now our new spirits, to mock at Baptism, omit from it God's Word and institution, and look upon it in no other way than as water which is taken from the well, and then blather and say: How is a handful of water to help the soul?..continued
@Bobsblues LYING HERETIC, here's Luther in his own words: "It was not circumcision that justified Abraham and his seed, although the apostle calls it the seal of the righteousness of faith [Rom. 4:11]; rather, faith in the promise to which circumcision was attached, gave righteousness and implemented what the circumcision signified. For faith was the spiritual circumcision of the heart which was figured by the literal circumcision of the flesh."--"The Pagan Servitude of the Church" YOU LOSE.
... But how dare you thus interfere with God's order, and tear away the most precious treasure with which God has connected and enclosed it, and which He will not have separated? For the kernel in the water is God's Word or command and the name of God which is a treasure greater and nobler than heaven and earth. "
@Bobsblues HERETIC, here's Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Serv. of the Church" Luther has rebuked you; you HAVE LOST. ONCE AGAIN. AS ALWAYS.
" ....But our signs , or sacraments, as well as those of the fathers, have attached to them a word of promise , which requires faith , and they cannot be fulfilled by any other work .....continued .."
@Bobsblues "They [the sacraments] are signs, or sacraments, or justification because they are sacraments of a justificatory faith, and not of works. The whole of their effectiveness lies in faith, and not in anything that is done. He who believes in them, fulfils them, even if nothing is done. .Baptism justifies nobody.; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."-Luther, "Pagan Ser."
"...Hence they are signs or sacraments of justification , for they are the sacraments of justifying faith and not of works. Their whole efficacy, therefore, consists in faith itself, not in the doing of a work ; for whoever believes them fulfils them, even if he should not do a single work . Whence has arisen the saying, “Not the sacrament but the faith of the sacrament justifies.”
@Bobsblues "They [the sacraments] are signs, or sacraments, or justification because they are sacraments of a justificatory faith, and not of works. The whole of their effectiveness lies in faith, and not in anything that is done. He who believes in them, fulfils them, even if nothing is done. .Baptism justifies nobody.; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--Luther,"Pagan Ser."
@Calvinist007 - I post quotes by Luther, and You call me a liar ? your such a lying mess that you cant take seeing the quotes by Luther posted that prove your Calvinist heresy wrong !
All you've got left is to keep taking the same piecemeal parts of luthers writings OUT OF CONTEXT to distort Luther's intended message.
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he refutes you SOUNDLY.
@Bobsblues Here's Luther, HERETIC: "Through faith alone without works the soul is justified by the Word of God, sanctified, made true, peaceful, and free, filled with every blessing and truly made a child of God, as John 1:12 says: 'But to all who...believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God'. ..... ...our faith...does not induce us to live in idleness or wickedness but makes the law and works unnecessary for any man's righteousness and salvation."--"Freedom of a Christian"
@calvinist007 - You said - "@lllannallll Woman, don't try to avoid the reality: you Campbellite HERETICS seemingly hold up the great Martin Luther...'
Here you go again with another lie as ANNA has not been quoting Luther , it has been I that has been, and I am not a Campbellite or a member of the denomination that calls itself Church of Christ.
I quote Luther In Context contrary to your quoting him Out of Context in order to uphold your Calvinist heresy.
@Bobsblues HERETIC, I didn't accuse her of quoting Luther; I said that Campbellites seemingly hold him up as an advocate of the baptismal regenerationist FALSE GOSPEL; either represent me accurately or SHUT UP. No, Martin Luther did NOT believe that water saved the soul; here's Luther: 'Faith alone makes someone just and fulfills the law; faith it is that brings the Holy Spirit through the merits of Christ. The Spirit, in turn, renders the heart glad and free....'--"Preface to Romans"
@Calvinist007 "I didn't accuse her of quoting Luther; I said that Campbellites seemingly hold him up..." SEEMINGLY? "Seemingly" ... ummm ... dare I ask ... to WHOM? Of course, in the church of Christ, one rarely hears a quote from Martin Luther on ANY subject. I could care less what he said. For the record though, he called your "church organ" an ensign of Baal.
@lllannallll Yes, Campbellite HERETIC, your denomination seemingly does hold up Martin Luther as a proponent of baptismal regeneration; however, when someone like me comes along who knows what he really said, that faith is what saved the soul, then it's a different story. He was a great man of God, although he was not perfect--he believed in infant baptism. None of us are perfect; he should be respected for preaching the great truth of salvation by grace through faith alone.
@Calvinist007 "You need to learn how to define "faith" or "pistis" from one of the recognized standard lexicons such as Thayer or Liddell and Scott." <-- still stands. You didn't do it - just like you can't "source" any Greek rule about person and number for personal pronouns, either. Poor thing.
@Calvinist007 "your denomination seemingly does hold up Martin Luther" Look, ya retard, YOU may think that - but you also thought "Apostle Philip" baptized the eunuch. Martin Luther was a great man due to his BRAVERY in opposing the Roman papacy. His TEACHINGS, however, are self-contradictory - and contradicted the book of James so badly that he simply removed that book from the Bible.
@lllannallll Look, ya TRUTH-HATING HERETIC and HISTORICAL IGNORAMUS, Martin Luther taught and preached salvation by grace through faith alone although your BAPTISMAL REGENERATIONIST CULT OF CAMPBELL seemingly holds him up as a proponent of your FALSE DOCTRINE; he was NOT that. Let's look at one your past replies at me, ya PATHETIC LOSER: "Good God! Are you just stupid, or truly head-fucked?" Ya never did answer my question: were ya "sauced up" when ya wrote that in a Christian forum? WERE YA?
@Calvinist007 "Ya never did answer my question: were ya "sauced up" when ya wrote that in a Christian forum? WERE YA?" Nope, I sincerely mean it. Look @ you rant like a fool: here's you: "Look, ya TRUTH-HATING HERETIC" then you proceed to tell me what Luther said, when I've repeately said I could care less. Luther plainly contradicted himself on the subject of baptism - talked out of both sides of his mouth - and if you'd like proof of that, I can post it for ya.
@Calvinist007 "when someone like me comes along who knows what he really said" You have an annoying habit of misquoting, piece-meal quoting, and quoting out of context, and when you can't do that - (such as the case of every 'church father' on Jn 3: 3-5), why, you'll simply say they were ALL WRONG - every last one of them. Your "quotes" are like your fake Bible page: worthless.
@lllannallll First of all, LIAR, Dr. Mantey's endorsement is genuine. Secondly, here's Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude"
@uwique "demonic legalism" <-- you've never denied that the Bible presents itself as the Last WILL and TESTAMENT of Jesus Christ: a LEGAL, binding document. We all know what "legalism" means to you: BAPTISM. You'll accept belief/faith, repentance, confessing sins, loving God, maybe praying ..whatever ... but watch out! If anyone THINKS baptism is necessary, he's a "demonic legalist", right? Course you know that's right; that's all it amounts to.
"Now, the first thing in baptism to be considered is the divine promise , which says: “He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved ” This promise must be set far above all the glitter of works, vows, religious orders, and whatever man has added thereto; for on it all our salvation depends...continued...
@Bobsblues HERETIC, hear Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Serv. of the Church" Luther has rebuked you; no "spin" on your part can help you now.
But we must so consider it as to exercise our faith therein and in nowise doubt that we are saved when we are baptised. For unless this faith be present or be conferred in baptism , baptism will profit us nothing, nay, it becomes a hindrance to us, not only in the moment of its reception, but all the days of our life ; for such unbelief accuses God’s promise of being a lie , and this is the blackest of all sins...continued..
@Bobsblues HERETIC, here's Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Serv. of the Church" Luther has rebuked you; you HAVE LOST. ONCE AGAIN. AS ALWAYS.
This message should have been untiringly impressed upon the people and this promise dinned without ceasing in their ears their baptism should have been called again and again to their mind , and faith constantly awakened and nourished..continued..
@Bobsblues LYING HERETIC, here's Luther in his own words: "It was not circumcision that justified Abraham and his seed, although the apostle calls it the seal of the righteousness of faith [Rom. 4:11]; rather, faith in the promise to which circumcision was attached, gave righteousness and implemented what the circumcision signified. For faith was the spiritual circumcision of the heart which was figured by the literal circumcision of the flesh."--"The Pagan Servitude of the Church" YOU LOSE.
For, just as the truth of this divine promise , once pronounced over us, continues unto death , so our faith in the same ought never to cease, but to be nourished and strengthened until death , by the continual remembrance of this promise made to us in baptism . continued...
@Bobsblues HERETIC, here's Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Serv. of the Church" Luther has rebuked you; there is NOTHING you can do to escape.
continued...Therefore, when we rise from sins , or repent , we do but return to the power and the FAITH OF BAPTISM from whence we fell, and find our way back to the promise then made to us, from which we departed when we sinned. For the truth of the promise once made remains steadfast, ever ready to receive us back with open arms when we return"
@Bobsblues HERETIC, here's Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude of the Church" Luther has rebuked you. AGAIN. YOU LOSE. AS ALWAYS. LIAR.
" Hence, we ought to receive baptism at the hands of a man just as if Christ Himself, nay, God Himself, were baptising us with His own hands. For it is not man’s baptism , but Christ’s and God’s baptism , which we receive by the hand of a man, just as every other created thing that we make use of by the hand of another, is God’s alone... continued....
@Bobsblues HERETIC, here's Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude of the Church" Luther has refuted you. YOU LOSE. ONCE AGAIN. AS ALWAYS.
@Calvinist007 And might I point out another of your many problems? You need to learn how to define "faith" or "pistis" from one of the recognized standard lexicons such as Thayer or Liddell and Scott. You use the word "faith" in nearly every post, but you cannot and wil not even accept the lexicographer's definition.
@lllannallll Do you want the definition of faith, HERETIC? What saith the Scriptures? Heb. 11:7 (KJV): "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Jn. 20:31 (KJV): "But these are written, that ye might BELIEVE that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that BELIEVING ye might have LIFE through his name." I Cor. 15:2 (KJV): "By which also ye are SAVED, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have BELIEVED in vain." Why, YOU LOSE; LOL!!!
@Calvinist007 "Do you want the definition of faith" I sure do - the complete definition. From a recognized standard lexicon, such as Thayers or Liddell and Scott. I specified that. Did you give it? Of course ya didn't. Once again, you changed the request/question, then just spewed and ranted. Try again and try harder: give the complete definition of pistis from standard lexicons.
@lllannallll What saith the Scriptures, HERETIC? Heb. 11:1 (KJV): "Now FAITH (πίστις) is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Rom. 4:5 (KJV): "But to him that worketh not, but BELIEVETH (πιστεύω) on him that justifieth the ungodly, his FAITH (πίστις) is counted for righteousness." I Cor. 15:2 (KJV): "By which also YE ARE SAVED, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless YE HAVE BELIEVED (πιστεύω) in vain." Why, YOU LOSE; LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Calvinist007 "What saith the Scriptures, HERETIC?" You need to worry more about what the LEXICONS say about the WORDS that the scriptures EMPLOY, because you don't know that much. You make every first on "faith" to mean "faith only, without obedience/compliance" when that's generally NOT what the words means. I lose? LOL I'm not here to win.
continued ... Therefore beware of dividing baptism in such a way as to ascribe the outward part to man and the inward part to God . Ascribe both to God alone, and look upon the person administering it as the instrument in God’s hands, by which the Lord sitting in heaven thrusts you under the water with His own hands , and speaking by the mouth of His minister promises you, on earth with a human voice, the forgiveness of your sins."
@Bobsblues HERETIC, here's Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude of the Church" Luther has rebuked you. YOU LOSE. AGAIN. AS ALWAYS. LIAR.
" This view I heartily endorse; for there is much of comfort and a mighty aid to faith in the knowledge that one has been baptised not by man, but by the Triune God Himself through a man acting among us in His name. "
@Bobsblues HERETIC, here's Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude of the Church" Luther has clarified his position, and YOU LOSE. YET AGAIN.
@Calvinist007 you said - "you Campbellite HERETICS seemingly make it a point to misrepresent Luther"
You lying worm, YOU cannot quote Luther without putting the scissors to his quotes , and pasting the pieces together to form YOUR OWN quote. You've been caught in your lie , so what do you do ? create another lie. That ALL you have !
@Bobsblues No, YOU LYING WORM, here's Martin Luther: "It was not circumcision that justified Abraham and his seed, although the apostle calls it the seal of the righteousness of faith [Rom. 4:11]; rather, faith in the promise to which circumcision was attached, gave righteousness and implemented what the circumcision signified. For faith was the spiritual circumcision of the heart which was figured by the literal circumcision of the flesh."--"The Pagan Servitude of the Church" YOU LOSE. AGAIN.
" This, then, is the difference between the legal types and the new and old signs — the former have not attached to them any word of promise requiring faith . Hence they are not signs of justification , for they are not sacraments of the faith that alone justifies, but only sacraments of works; their whole power and nature consisted in works, not in faith , and he that observed them fulfilled them, even if he did it without faith ... continued .."
@Bobsblues "They [the sacraments] are signs, or sacraments, or justification because they are sacraments of a justificatory faith, and not of works. The whole of their effectiveness lies in faith, and not in anything that is done. He who believes in them, fulfils them, even if nothing is done. ..Baptism justifies nobody.; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--Luther, "Pagan Serv."
" ....But our signs , or sacraments, as well as those of the fathers, have attached to them a word of promise , which requires faith , and they cannot be fulfilled by any other work .....continued .."
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he refutes you SOUNDLY.
"...Hence they are signs or sacraments of justification , for they are the sacraments of justifying faith and not of works. Their whole efficacy, therefore, consists in faith itself, not in the doing of a work ; for whoever believes them fulfils them, even if he should not do a single work . Whence has arisen the saying, “Not the sacrament but the faith of the sacrament justifies.”
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he rebukes you CLEARLY.
@Calvinist007 - " Not the sacrament but the faith of the sacrament justifies.” , this is QUITE different than just faith , it is FAITH IN THE SACRAMENT , WHY ? because there is a promise of salvation given with that sacrament and you must have faith in that promise . This is entirely different than how you try to distort Luthers meaning to appear to be faith without baptism .
Purposly distorting anothers writings is the same as lying, and liars get the lake of fire .
@Bobsblues That is NOT what Luther said, HERETIC; here's QUITE what he said: 'This is the root of the saying: "Not the sacrament, but the sacramental faith, is what justifies." Accordingly, it was not circumcision that justified Abraham and his seed, although the apostle calls it the seal of the righteousness of faith [Rom. 4:11]; rather, faith in the promise to which circumcision was attached, gave righteousness and implemented what the circumcision signified.'--"Pagan Servitude" YOU LOSE.
@Calvinist007 " Hence they are signs or sacraments of justification , for they are the sacraments of justifying faith and not of works. Their whole efficacy, therefore, consists in faith itself, not in the doing of a work ; for whoever believes them fulfils them, even if he should not do a single work . Whence has arisen the saying, “Not the sacrament but the faith of the sacrament justifies.”
Above is the quote by Luther INCLUDING THE LAST LINE , which you conveniently left off in your post
@Bobsblues BAPTISMAL REGENERATIONIST HERETIC, here's Luther: 'This is the root of the saying: "Not the sacrament, but the sacramental faith, is what justifies." Accordingly, it was not circumcision that justified Abraham and his seed, although the apostle calls it the seal of the righteousness of faith [Rom. 4:11]; rather, faith in the promise to which circumcision was attached, gave righteousness and implemented what the circumcision signified.'--"The Pagan Servitude of the Church" YOU LOSE.
@Calvinist007 - you said "@Bobsblues "They [the sacraments] are signs, or sacraments, or justification because they are sacraments of a justificatory faith, AND NOT OF WORKS . "
NOT OF WORKS !!! YES, NOT OF WORKS !!!, and if baptism is proof of a justificatory faith , the opposite is equally true , NO BAPTISM = UNJUSTIFIED FAITH = NO SALVATION.
AND DUMBO , he did not say it was ONLY a SIGN, quite the opposite, Luther has stated undeniably that baptism is an ongoing process until death.
@Bobsblues HEY, DUMBO, here's Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude of the Church" Luther has clarified his position, and YOU LOSE. AGAIN.
@calvinist007 - you said "@Bobsblues "They [the sacraments] are signs, or sacraments, or justification because they are sacraments of a justificatory faith, and not of works. The whole of their effectiveness lies in faith, and not in anything that is done. He who believes in them, fulfils them, even if nothing is done. .. "
YOU IDIOT, Luther is telling you that a person with faith will fullfill the command to be baptized , and NO WORK IS BEING DONE, he is not saying no baptism is done .
@Bobsblues YOU IDIOT, here's Luther in his own words: "It was not circumcision that justified Abraham and his seed, although the apostle calls it the seal of the righteousness of faith [Rom. 4:11]; rather, faith in the promise to which circumcision was attached, gave righteousness and implemented what the circumcision signified. For faith was the spiritual circumcision of the heart which was figured by the literal circumcision of the flesh."--"The Pagan Servitude of the Church" YOU LOSE.
@beanbcube2010 - Something that we are commanded to do in order to recieve forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost is hardly a mere superstitious ritual.
Your statement is true for the various rituals invented by men, but baptism was instituted by God .
" This, then, is the difference between the legal types and the new and old signs — the former have not attached to them any word of promise requiring faith . Hence they are not signs of justification , for they are not sacraments of the faith that alone justifies, but only sacraments of works; their whole power and nature consisted in works, not in faith , and he that observed them fulfilled them, even if he did it without faith ... continued ...
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he refutes you CLEARLY.
... But our signs , or sacraments, as well as those of the fathers, have attached to them a word of promise , which requires faith , and they cannot be fulfilled by any other work ... continued
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he rebukes you SOUNDLY.
Hence they are signs or sacraments of justification , for they are the sacraments of justifying faith and not of works. Their whole efficacy, therefore, consists in faith itself, not in the doing of a work ; for whoever believes them fulfils them, even if he should not do a single work . Whence has arisen the saying, “Not the sacrament but the faith of the sacrament justifies.”
@Bobsblues "They [the sacraments] are signs, or sacraments, or justification because they are sacraments of a justificatory faith, and not of works. The whole of their effectiveness lies in faith, and not in anything that is done. He who believes in them, fulfils them, even if nothing is done. .. Baptism justifies nobody.; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--Luther, "Pagan Serv."
@Calvinist007- LIAR , Her YOUTUBE account has been open the entire time.
@Bobsblues LIAR, I meant that God had suspended her activities in the forums in which she had attacked the truth in debates with me; either learn how to think past two dimensions or SHUT UP
@lllannallll ".... God has suspended your activities on YouTube twice; once for about two weeks, and recently for about one month.
@Bobsblues LIAR, I meant that God had suspended her activities in the forums in which she had attacked the truth in debates with me; either learn how to think past two dimensions or SHUT UP. You ALREADY have lost; what saith the Scriptures? I Cor. 15:57 (KJV): "But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." I Jn. 2:14 (KJV): "Ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one." It's only a matter of time before you FALL.
@Bobsblues Here's a reply that lil' Anna sent me a while back on a Christian forum: 'Good God! Are you just stupid, or truly head-fucked? Why would you make a lame attempt at "correcting" the spelling of a word that wasn't misspelled in the first place.' She had insisted that "supercede" was a correct spelling when in fact the correct spelling is "supersede". She is a PATHETIC LOSER who attacks scriptural truth, just as you do. Isa. 5:20: "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil."
@Calvinist007 "First of all, ya IDIOT, you do not know why any of my posts may have been spammed." SURE I do: because you copy and paste the SAME POST over and over because you're outta gas.
@lllannallll No, LIAR, you do NOT know why any of my posts may have been spammed; for you all you know, other users may have flagged them as such because, like YOU, THEY are OUTTA GAS and WHIPPED like a LITTLE SQUEALING HOG at the SLAUGHTER. What saith the Scripture? Mk. 1:24 (KJV): "Let [us] alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God." My Savior dwells within my heart, LIAR. YOU DON'T HAVE A PRAYER.
@Calvinist007 "other users may have flagged them as such because, like YOU, THEY are OUTTA GAS" I've never "marked" your posts as spam - I want people to be sure and read them and observe how DUMB you are. I doubt anyone else did, either. You copy and post the S.O.S. over and over. Why, one time you posted the same post 10 or 12 times when you had nothing more to say. Outta gas, indeed!
@lllannallll I didn't accuse you of marking my posts as "spam", HERETIC. One thing I do know; the Word of God is never "spam". What saith the Scriptures? Rom. 4:3-5 (KJV): "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Why, YOU LOSE; LOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!
@Calvinist007 "the Word of God is never "spam" Sure it is, by Youtube's standards. And you violated the rules by endlessly copying and pasting the SAME POSTS just to hide the fact that you were being made look stoopit.
@lllannallll Why, I don't care about any standards but God's standards, HERETIC; His Holy Word NEVER is "spam", and anyone who may mark it as such ought to be ashamed of themselves. Why, no, LIAR, I posted the one thing against which you and the DEVIL who is motivating you have NO DEFENSE: the Word of God. What saith the Scriptures? Eph. 2:8-9 (DBY): "For ye are saved by grace, through faith; and this not of yourselves; it is God's gift: not on the principle of works, that no one might boast."
" But if they say, as they are accustomed: Still Baptism is itself a work, and you say works are of no avail for salvation; what then, becomes of faith? Answer: Yes, our works, indeed, avail nothing for salvation; Baptism, however, is not our work, but God's (for, as was stated, you must put Christ-baptism far away from a bath-keeper's baptism). God's works, however, are saving and necessary for salvation, and do not exclude, but demand, faith; for without faith they could not be apprehended.
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, YOU LYING DECEIVER: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he opposes you.
For by suffering the water to be poured upon you, you have not yet received Baptism in such a manner that it benefits you anything; but it becomes beneficial to you if you have yourself baptized with the thought that this is according to God's command and ordinance, and besides in God's name, in order that you may receive in the water the promised salvation. Now, this the fist cannot do, nor the body; but the heart must believe it...
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, YOU LYING HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther rebukes you soundly with these words.
Thus you see plainly that there is here no work done by us, but a treasure which He gives us, and which faith apprehends; just as the Lord Jesus Christ upon the cross is not a work, but a treasure comprehended in the Word, and offered to us and received by faith. Therefore they do us violence by exclaiming against us as though we preach against faith; while we alone insist upon it as being of such necessity that without it nothing can be received nor enjoyed.
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, YOU LYING HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther has clarified his position here. YOU LOSE.
" Now, they are so mad as to separate faith and that to which faith clings and is bound though it be something external. Yea, it shall and must be something external, that it may be apprehended by the senses, and understood and thereby be brought into the heart, as indeed the entire Gospel is an external, verbal preaching....
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, YOU LYING HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" If the Lord will, I will fight you to the end.
...In short, what God does and works in us He proposes to work through such external ordinances. Wherever, therefore, He speaks, yea, in whichever direction or by whatever means He speaks, thither faith must look, and to that it must hold."
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, YOU LYING HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself. YOU LOSE. AGAIN.
"Now here we have the words: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. To what else do they refer than to Baptism, that is, to the water comprehended in God's ordinance? Hence it follows that whoever rejects Baptism rejects the Word of God, faith, and Christ, who directs us thither and binds us to Baptism."
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, YOU LYING SNAKE: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he defeats you.
" And this also we cannot discern better than from the words of Christ above quoted: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. Therefore state it most simply thus, that the power, work, profit, fruit, and end of Baptism is this, namely, to save. For no one is baptized in order that he may become a prince, but, as the words declare, that he be saved.
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, YOU LYING SERPENT: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he rebukes you.
"For to be baptized in the name of God is to be baptized not by men, but by God Himself. Therefore although it is performed by human hands, it is nevertheless truly God's own work "
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Think about it.
USAFreedomReform you said - "JESUS DID IT ALL ON THE CROSS !! (IT IS FINISHED)
All we have to do is call on the name of Jesus Christ to be SAVED !! "
Didnt work that way in the days of the Apostles and wont now either. The events in Acts 8 and 19 show that people were not recieving the Holy Spirit just by belief alone.
Bobsblues 2 days ago
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GOD said in the ten commandments,"Thou shall have no other gods before me".
If people think water will save them, that the same as putting a physical god(water) before GOD!
Think about it.
JESUS DID IT ALL ON THE CROSS !! (IT IS FINISHED)
All we have to do is call on the name of Jesus Christ to be SAVED !!
IF you turn to Jesus Christ, you turn away from the ways of Satan !!
USAFreedomReform 1 week ago
church of christ baptism is scripture and traditional of acts you are blinded by the church of this world doctrine, be ware the world church is easly accepted,trinity ,denouncing jesus,calling names ect.
jiedialuren17 1 week ago in playlist 1-11 Church of Christ -VS- Christianity - Debate on Baptism
"Therefore it is pure wickedness and blasphemy of the devil that now our new spirits, to mock at Baptism, omit from it God's Word and institution, and look upon it in no other way than as water which is taken from the well, and then blather and say: How is a handful of water to help the soul ?"
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, LIAR: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he rebukes you SOUNDLY.
Calvinist007 1 day ago
"..so also I can boast that Baptism is no human trifle, but instituted by God Himself, moreover, that it is most solemnly and strictly commanded that we must be baptized or we cannot be saved, .. "
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther has clarified his position. YOU LOSE. AGAIN.
Calvinist007 1 day ago
" Therefore state it most simply thus, that the power, work, profit, fruit, and end of Baptism is this, namely, to save. For no one is baptized in order that he may become a prince, but, as the words declare, that he be saved."
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, LIAR: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he refutes you CLEARLY.
Calvinist007 1 day ago
"To what else do they refer than to Baptism, that is, to the water comprehended in God's ordinance? Hence it follows that whoever rejects Baptism rejects the Word of God, faith, and Christ, who directs us thither and binds us to Baptism."
[ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" What part of that are you not getting? YOU LOSE.
Calvinist007 1 day ago
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@Calvinist007 - Seems you cannot even quote yourself correctly.
"@Bobsblues Learn to think past two dimensions, HERETIC; I said that her denomination seemingly had held up Luther, not that she had cited him. Either represent me correctly or SHUT UP."@lllannallll Woman, don't try to avoid the reality: you Campbellite HERETICS seemingly hold up the great Martin Luther.." YOUR REAL QUOTE - "you Campbellite HERETICS seemingly make it a point to misrepresent Luther"
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
USAFreedomReform " But it DOES NOT SAY WATER ! Why Would Jesus condradict John in Mark 1:8 when John was ordained before Jesus to be his forerunner !! "
It doesnt have to Say Water because THAT WAS WHAT BAPTISM WAS. Jesus would not have had to command his apostles to go out and Baptize, if baptism came upon a believer all by itself just because the person had belief.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "It doesnt have to Say Water because THAT WAS WHAT BAPTISM WAS"
Again,it is so simple and right before your eyes.What did Jesus tell the disciples to do?
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore,and teach all nations,baptizing them "IN" the name of the Father, "IN" the name of the Son, and "IN" the name of the Holy Ghost:
What did Jesus tell the disciples to baptize "IN"?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues Look,I have no problem with anyone going thru the ritual of water baptism,because Jesus did it, I did it too, but since the day that Jesus ascended into heaven,water baptism was replaced with HOLY GHOST baptism. Call on the name of Jesus to be baptized "IN" the name of the Father,"IN" the name of the Son , and "IN" the name of the Holy Ghost and you shall be saved.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
" I.
Q. What is Baptism?
A. Baptism is not just plain water, but it is water contained within God's command and united with God's Word.
Q. Which Word of God is this?
A. The one which our Lord Christ spoke in the last chapter of Matthew:
Go into all the world, teaching all heathen nations, and baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and of the Holy Spirit. "
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "Go into all the world, teaching all heathen nations, and baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
But it DOES NOT SAY WATER ! Why Would Jesus condradict John in Mark 1:8 when John was ordained before Jesus to be his forerunner !!
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he refutes you SOUNDLY.
Calvinist007 1 month ago
" II.
Q. What does Baptism give? What good is it?
A. It gives the forgiveness of sins, redeems from death and the Devil, gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, just as God's words and promises declare.
Q. What are these words and promises of God?
A. Our Lord Christ spoke one of them in the last chapter of Mark:
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; but whoever does not believe will be damned. "
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he refutes you CLEARLY.
Calvinist007 1 month ago
" Q. How can water do such great things? A. Water doesn't make these things happen, of course. It is God's Word, which is with and in the water. Because, without God's Word, the water is plain water and not baptism. But with God's Word it is a Baptism, a grace-filled water of life, a bath of new birth in the Holy Spirit, as St. Paul said to Titus in the third chapter: "
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he refutes you POINTEDLY.
Calvinist007 1 month ago
"From this now learn a proper understanding of the subject, and how to answer the question what Baptism is, namely thus, that it is not mere ordinary water, but water comprehended in God's Word and command, and sanctified thereby, so that it is nothing else than a divine water; not that the water in itself is nobler than other water, but that God's Word and command are added."
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues Here's Luther, HERETIC: "Through faith alone without works the soul is justified by the Word of God, sanctified, made true, peaceful, and free, filled with every blessing and truly made a child of God, as John 1:12 says: 'But to all who...believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God'. ..... ...our faith...does not induce us to live in idleness or wickedness but makes the law and works unnecessary for any man's righteousness and salvation."--"Freedom of a Christian"
Calvinist007 1 month ago
@ Calvinist007 - You said " No, Martin Luther did NOT believe that water saved the soul; "
Of course Luther didnt say that Water ALONE saved the soul, but a True Christian Baptism is NOT Water ALONE.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he rebukes you CLEARLY.
Calvinist007 1 month ago
@Calvinist007 - you said - "@Bobsblues Here's Luther, HERETIC: "Through faith alone without works the soul is justified by the Word of God, "
Well , here you go again trying to make it appear that Luther taught that Baptism is a work when you have several times previously been shown the following quote by Luther :
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he rebukes you SOUNDLY.
Calvinist007 1 month ago
" If they say as the are accustomed: Still Baptism is itself a work, and you say works are of no avail for salvation; what then, becomes of faith? Answer: Yes, our works, indeed, avail nothing for salvation; Baptism, however, is not our work, but God's '
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he rebukes you BLUNTLY.
Calvinist007 1 month ago
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@calvinist007 - you said - " @Bobsblues HERETIC, I didn't accuse her of quoting Luther; I said that Campbellites seemingly hold him up as an advocate of the baptismal regenerationist FALSE GOSPEL; " Once again you lie in an attempt to cover your butt, here's your quote, clearly addressed to her saying YOU Campbellite Heretics
"@lllannallll Woman, don't try to avoid the reality: you Campbellite HERETICS seemingly hold up the great Martin Luther...'
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues Learn to think past two dimensions, HERETIC; I said that her denomination seemingly had held up Luther, not that she had cited him. Either represent me correctly or SHUT UP.
Calvinist007 1 month ago
i think the church of christ is whacked!!
uwique 2 months ago
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GOD said all the way back in the very beginning of the old law,"Thou shall not have any other gods before me".
If people think water will save them,isn't that the same as putting a god(water) before GOD?
Think about it.
USAFreedomReform 2 months ago
@USAFreedomReform - Water baptism FOR the remission [ forgiveness ] of sins was also commanded by the Apostle Peter.
Bobsblues 2 months ago
@Bobsblues Taking into account that all scripture about Peter was accurate,he was one that always wanted to be on the front lines of everything he did. Take the transfiguration for example,Peter wanted to build each one present a tabernacle to take cover in.His understanding was one that seemed to be to act first and ask questions later.
His understanding of Jesus Christ was to Jesus as an understanding to build his(Jesus') church upon.
He was quick with his sword too,but a bad aim.
USAFreedomReform 2 months ago
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GOD said all the way back in the very beginning of the old law,"Thou shall not have any other gods before me".
If people think water will save them,isn't that the same as putting a god(water) before GOD?
Think about it.
USAFreedomReform 2 months ago
" And this also we cannot discern better than from the words of Christ above quoted: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. Therefore state it most simply thus, THAT THE POWER , WORK , PROFIT , FRUIT , AND END OF BAPTISM IS THIS, NAMELY , TO SAVE . For no one is baptized in order that he may become a prince, but, as the words declare, that he be saved. "
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 2 months ago
@Bobsblues "words of Christ above quoted: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved."
He that repents of of his sins(knows he has sinned),calls on the name of Jesus Christ(admits that the gospel of Jesus is true) is baptised (by the HOLY SPIRIT) shall be saved. Water baptism is a ritual following in the footsteps of Jesus Christ.Water baptism by John the "BAPTIST"(one who baptises) was unto the "remission" of sin. JOHN: "are you still with sin,(YES) back down you go"!
USAFreedomReform 2 months ago
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@Bobsblues HERETIC, here's Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."-"Pagan Serv. of the Church" Luther has rebuked you; no "spin" on your part can help you now.
Calvinist007 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he rebukes you BLUNTLY.
Calvinist007 1 month ago
" In these words you must note, in the first place, that here stand God's commandment and institution, lest we doubt that Baptism is divine, not devised nor invented by men. For as truly as I can say, No man has spun the Ten Commandments, the Creed, and the Lord's Prayer out of his head, but they are revealed and given by God Himself , .. continued ...
Bobsblues 2 months ago
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@Bobsblues HERETIC, hear Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Serv. of the Church" Luther has rebuked you; no "spin" on your part can help you now.
Calvinist007 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues Here's Martin Luther: "It was not circumcision that justified Abraham and his seed, although the apostle calls it the seal of the righteousness of faith [Rom. 4:11]; rather, faith in the promise to which circumcision was attached, gave righteousness and implemented what the circumcision signified. For faith was the spiritual circumcision of the heart which was figured by the literal circumcision of the flesh."--"Pagan Servitude" No amount of linguistic legerdemain can help you now.
Calvinist007 1 month ago
....so also I can boast that Baptism is no human trifle, but instituted by God Himself, moreover, that it is most solemnly and strictly commanded that we must be baptized or we cannot be saved, .. "
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 2 months ago
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@Bobsblues LYING HERETIC, here's Luther in his own words: "It was not circumcision that justified Abraham and his seed, although the apostle calls it the seal of the righteousness of faith [Rom. 4:11]; rather, faith in the promise to which circumcision was attached, gave righteousness and implemented what the circumcision signified. For faith was the spiritual circumcision of the heart which was figured by the literal circumcision of the flesh."--"The Pagan Servitude of the Church" YOU LOSE.
Calvinist007 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues LYING HERETIC, here's Luther in his own words: "It was not circumcision that justified Abraham and his seed, although the apostle calls it the seal of the righteousness of faith [Rom. 4:11]; rather, faith in the promise to which circumcision was attached, gave righteousness and implemented what the circumcision signified. For faith was the spiritual circumcision of the heart which was figured by the literal circumcision of the flesh."--"The Pagan Servitude of the Church" YOU LOSE
Calvinist007 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, LIAR: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he rebukes you PLAINLY.
Calvinist007 1 month ago
@ Calvinist007 - you said the following concerning Martin Luther. - "although he was off on the baptism issue"
You have previously accused the early church of being ' confused ' concerning baptism and now you've just come out of your closet and said Luther was "off on the baptism issue"
NEITHER was off or confused, its Calvin and the rest of the OSAS heretical mess thats OFF.
The following quote by Luther fits your heresy perfectly
Bobsblues 2 months ago
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@Bobsblues HERETIC, hear Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."-"Pagan Serv. of the Church" Luther has rebuked you; no "spin" on your part can assist you now.
Calvinist007 1 month ago
" Therefore it is pure wickedness and blasphemy of the devil that now our new spirits, to mock at Baptism, omit from it God's Word and institution, and look upon it in no other way than as water which is taken from the well, and then blather and say: How is a handful of water to help the soul?..continued
Bobsblues 2 months ago
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@Bobsblues LYING HERETIC, here's Luther in his own words: "It was not circumcision that justified Abraham and his seed, although the apostle calls it the seal of the righteousness of faith [Rom. 4:11]; rather, faith in the promise to which circumcision was attached, gave righteousness and implemented what the circumcision signified. For faith was the spiritual circumcision of the heart which was figured by the literal circumcision of the flesh."--"The Pagan Servitude of the Church" YOU LOSE.
Calvinist007 1 month ago
... But how dare you thus interfere with God's order, and tear away the most precious treasure with which God has connected and enclosed it, and which He will not have separated? For the kernel in the water is God's Word or command and the name of God which is a treasure greater and nobler than heaven and earth. "
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 2 months ago
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@Bobsblues HERETIC, here's Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Serv. of the Church" Luther has rebuked you; you HAVE LOST. ONCE AGAIN. AS ALWAYS.
Calvinist007 1 month ago
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" ....But our signs , or sacraments, as well as those of the fathers, have attached to them a word of promise , which requires faith , and they cannot be fulfilled by any other work .....continued .."
Bobsblues 2 months ago
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@Bobsblues "They [the sacraments] are signs, or sacraments, or justification because they are sacraments of a justificatory faith, and not of works. The whole of their effectiveness lies in faith, and not in anything that is done. He who believes in them, fulfils them, even if nothing is done. .Baptism justifies nobody.; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."-Luther, "Pagan Ser."
Calvinist007 1 month ago
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"...Hence they are signs or sacraments of justification , for they are the sacraments of justifying faith and not of works. Their whole efficacy, therefore, consists in faith itself, not in the doing of a work ; for whoever believes them fulfils them, even if he should not do a single work . Whence has arisen the saying, “Not the sacrament but the faith of the sacrament justifies.”
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 2 months ago
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@Bobsblues "They [the sacraments] are signs, or sacraments, or justification because they are sacraments of a justificatory faith, and not of works. The whole of their effectiveness lies in faith, and not in anything that is done. He who believes in them, fulfils them, even if nothing is done. .Baptism justifies nobody.; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--Luther,"Pagan Ser."
Calvinist007 1 month ago
@Calvinist007 - I post quotes by Luther, and You call me a liar ? your such a lying mess that you cant take seeing the quotes by Luther posted that prove your Calvinist heresy wrong !
All you've got left is to keep taking the same piecemeal parts of luthers writings OUT OF CONTEXT to distort Luther's intended message.
Bobsblues 2 months ago
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@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he refutes you SOUNDLY.
Calvinist007 1 month ago
@Bobsblues Here's Luther, HERETIC: "Through faith alone without works the soul is justified by the Word of God, sanctified, made true, peaceful, and free, filled with every blessing and truly made a child of God, as John 1:12 says: 'But to all who...believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God'. ..... ...our faith...does not induce us to live in idleness or wickedness but makes the law and works unnecessary for any man's righteousness and salvation."--"Freedom of a Christian"
Calvinist007 1 month ago
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@calvinist007 - You said - "@lllannallll Woman, don't try to avoid the reality: you Campbellite HERETICS seemingly hold up the great Martin Luther...'
Here you go again with another lie as ANNA has not been quoting Luther , it has been I that has been, and I am not a Campbellite or a member of the denomination that calls itself Church of Christ.
I quote Luther In Context contrary to your quoting him Out of Context in order to uphold your Calvinist heresy.
Bobsblues 2 months ago
@Bobsblues HERETIC, I didn't accuse her of quoting Luther; I said that Campbellites seemingly hold him up as an advocate of the baptismal regenerationist FALSE GOSPEL; either represent me accurately or SHUT UP. No, Martin Luther did NOT believe that water saved the soul; here's Luther: 'Faith alone makes someone just and fulfills the law; faith it is that brings the Holy Spirit through the merits of Christ. The Spirit, in turn, renders the heart glad and free....'--"Preface to Romans"
Calvinist007 1 month ago
@Calvinist007 "I didn't accuse her of quoting Luther; I said that Campbellites seemingly hold him up..." SEEMINGLY? "Seemingly" ... ummm ... dare I ask ... to WHOM? Of course, in the church of Christ, one rarely hears a quote from Martin Luther on ANY subject. I could care less what he said. For the record though, he called your "church organ" an ensign of Baal.
lllannallll 1 month ago
@lllannallll Yes, Campbellite HERETIC, your denomination seemingly does hold up Martin Luther as a proponent of baptismal regeneration; however, when someone like me comes along who knows what he really said, that faith is what saved the soul, then it's a different story. He was a great man of God, although he was not perfect--he believed in infant baptism. None of us are perfect; he should be respected for preaching the great truth of salvation by grace through faith alone.
Calvinist007 1 month ago
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@Calvinist007 "You need to learn how to define "faith" or "pistis" from one of the recognized standard lexicons such as Thayer or Liddell and Scott." <-- still stands. You didn't do it - just like you can't "source" any Greek rule about person and number for personal pronouns, either. Poor thing.
lllannallll 1 month ago
@Calvinist007 "your denomination seemingly does hold up Martin Luther" Look, ya retard, YOU may think that - but you also thought "Apostle Philip" baptized the eunuch. Martin Luther was a great man due to his BRAVERY in opposing the Roman papacy. His TEACHINGS, however, are self-contradictory - and contradicted the book of James so badly that he simply removed that book from the Bible.
lllannallll 1 month ago
@lllannallll Look, ya TRUTH-HATING HERETIC and HISTORICAL IGNORAMUS, Martin Luther taught and preached salvation by grace through faith alone although your BAPTISMAL REGENERATIONIST CULT OF CAMPBELL seemingly holds him up as a proponent of your FALSE DOCTRINE; he was NOT that. Let's look at one your past replies at me, ya PATHETIC LOSER: "Good God! Are you just stupid, or truly head-fucked?" Ya never did answer my question: were ya "sauced up" when ya wrote that in a Christian forum? WERE YA?
Calvinist007 1 day ago
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@Calvinist007 "Ya never did answer my question: were ya "sauced up" when ya wrote that in a Christian forum? WERE YA?" Nope, I sincerely mean it. Look @ you rant like a fool: here's you: "Look, ya TRUTH-HATING HERETIC" then you proceed to tell me what Luther said, when I've repeately said I could care less. Luther plainly contradicted himself on the subject of baptism - talked out of both sides of his mouth - and if you'd like proof of that, I can post it for ya.
lllannallll 1 day ago
@Calvinist007 "when someone like me comes along who knows what he really said" You have an annoying habit of misquoting, piece-meal quoting, and quoting out of context, and when you can't do that - (such as the case of every 'church father' on Jn 3: 3-5), why, you'll simply say they were ALL WRONG - every last one of them. Your "quotes" are like your fake Bible page: worthless.
lllannallll 1 month ago
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@lllannallll First of all, LIAR, Dr. Mantey's endorsement is genuine. Secondly, here's Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude"
Calvinist007 1 day ago
@Calvinist007 let the COC drag themselves to hell with all their demonic legalism.
uwique 3 weeks ago
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@uwique "demonic legalism" <-- you've never denied that the Bible presents itself as the Last WILL and TESTAMENT of Jesus Christ: a LEGAL, binding document. We all know what "legalism" means to you: BAPTISM. You'll accept belief/faith, repentance, confessing sins, loving God, maybe praying ..whatever ... but watch out! If anyone THINKS baptism is necessary, he's a "demonic legalist", right? Course you know that's right; that's all it amounts to.
lllannallll 2 days ago
"Now, the first thing in baptism to be considered is the divine promise , which says: “He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved ” This promise must be set far above all the glitter of works, vows, religious orders, and whatever man has added thereto; for on it all our salvation depends...continued...
Bobsblues 2 months ago
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@Bobsblues HERETIC, hear Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Serv. of the Church" Luther has rebuked you; no "spin" on your part can help you now.
Calvinist007 2 months ago
But we must so consider it as to exercise our faith therein and in nowise doubt that we are saved when we are baptised. For unless this faith be present or be conferred in baptism , baptism will profit us nothing, nay, it becomes a hindrance to us, not only in the moment of its reception, but all the days of our life ; for such unbelief accuses God’s promise of being a lie , and this is the blackest of all sins...continued..
Bobsblues 2 months ago
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@Bobsblues HERETIC, here's Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Serv. of the Church" Luther has rebuked you; you HAVE LOST. ONCE AGAIN. AS ALWAYS.
Calvinist007 2 months ago
This message should have been untiringly impressed upon the people and this promise dinned without ceasing in their ears their baptism should have been called again and again to their mind , and faith constantly awakened and nourished..continued..
Bobsblues 2 months ago
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@Bobsblues LYING HERETIC, here's Luther in his own words: "It was not circumcision that justified Abraham and his seed, although the apostle calls it the seal of the righteousness of faith [Rom. 4:11]; rather, faith in the promise to which circumcision was attached, gave righteousness and implemented what the circumcision signified. For faith was the spiritual circumcision of the heart which was figured by the literal circumcision of the flesh."--"The Pagan Servitude of the Church" YOU LOSE.
Calvinist007 2 months ago
For, just as the truth of this divine promise , once pronounced over us, continues unto death , so our faith in the same ought never to cease, but to be nourished and strengthened until death , by the continual remembrance of this promise made to us in baptism . continued...
Bobsblues 2 months ago
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@Bobsblues HERETIC, here's Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Serv. of the Church" Luther has rebuked you; there is NOTHING you can do to escape.
Calvinist007 2 months ago
continued...Therefore, when we rise from sins , or repent , we do but return to the power and the FAITH OF BAPTISM from whence we fell, and find our way back to the promise then made to us, from which we departed when we sinned. For the truth of the promise once made remains steadfast, ever ready to receive us back with open arms when we return"
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 2 months ago
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@Bobsblues HERETIC, here's Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude of the Church" Luther has rebuked you. AGAIN. YOU LOSE. AS ALWAYS. LIAR.
Calvinist007 2 months ago
" Hence, we ought to receive baptism at the hands of a man just as if Christ Himself, nay, God Himself, were baptising us with His own hands. For it is not man’s baptism , but Christ’s and God’s baptism , which we receive by the hand of a man, just as every other created thing that we make use of by the hand of another, is God’s alone... continued....
Bobsblues 2 months ago
@Bobsblues HERETIC, here's Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude of the Church" Luther has refuted you. YOU LOSE. ONCE AGAIN. AS ALWAYS.
Calvinist007 2 months ago
@Calvinist007 And might I point out another of your many problems? You need to learn how to define "faith" or "pistis" from one of the recognized standard lexicons such as Thayer or Liddell and Scott. You use the word "faith" in nearly every post, but you cannot and wil not even accept the lexicographer's definition.
lllannallll 1 month ago
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@lllannallll pistos
trusty, faithful b) in the NT one who trusts in God's promises
1) one who is convinced that Jesus has been raised from the dead
2) one who has become convinced that Jesus is the Messiah and author of salvation
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@lllannallll Do you want the definition of faith, HERETIC? What saith the Scriptures? Heb. 11:7 (KJV): "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Jn. 20:31 (KJV): "But these are written, that ye might BELIEVE that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that BELIEVING ye might have LIFE through his name." I Cor. 15:2 (KJV): "By which also ye are SAVED, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have BELIEVED in vain." Why, YOU LOSE; LOL!!!
Calvinist007 1 month ago
@Calvinist007 "Do you want the definition of faith" I sure do - the complete definition. From a recognized standard lexicon, such as Thayers or Liddell and Scott. I specified that. Did you give it? Of course ya didn't. Once again, you changed the request/question, then just spewed and ranted. Try again and try harder: give the complete definition of pistis from standard lexicons.
lllannallll 1 month ago
@lllannallll What saith the Scriptures, HERETIC? Heb. 11:1 (KJV): "Now FAITH (πίστις) is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Rom. 4:5 (KJV): "But to him that worketh not, but BELIEVETH (πιστεύω) on him that justifieth the ungodly, his FAITH (πίστις) is counted for righteousness." I Cor. 15:2 (KJV): "By which also YE ARE SAVED, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless YE HAVE BELIEVED (πιστεύω) in vain." Why, YOU LOSE; LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Calvinist007 1 day ago
@Calvinist007 "What saith the Scriptures, HERETIC?" You need to worry more about what the LEXICONS say about the WORDS that the scriptures EMPLOY, because you don't know that much. You make every first on "faith" to mean "faith only, without obedience/compliance" when that's generally NOT what the words means. I lose? LOL I'm not here to win.
lllannallll 1 day ago
continued ... Therefore beware of dividing baptism in such a way as to ascribe the outward part to man and the inward part to God . Ascribe both to God alone, and look upon the person administering it as the instrument in God’s hands, by which the Lord sitting in heaven thrusts you under the water with His own hands , and speaking by the mouth of His minister promises you, on earth with a human voice, the forgiveness of your sins."
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 2 months ago
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@Bobsblues HERETIC, here's Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude of the Church" Luther has rebuked you. YOU LOSE. AGAIN. AS ALWAYS. LIAR.
Calvinist007 2 months ago
" This view I heartily endorse; for there is much of comfort and a mighty aid to faith in the knowledge that one has been baptised not by man, but by the Triune God Himself through a man acting among us in His name. "
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 2 months ago
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@Bobsblues HERETIC, here's Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude of the Church" Luther has clarified his position, and YOU LOSE. YET AGAIN.
Calvinist007 2 months ago
@Calvinist007 you said - "you Campbellite HERETICS seemingly make it a point to misrepresent Luther"
You lying worm, YOU cannot quote Luther without putting the scissors to his quotes , and pasting the pieces together to form YOUR OWN quote. You've been caught in your lie , so what do you do ? create another lie. That ALL you have !
Bobsblues 2 months ago
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@Bobsblues No, YOU LYING WORM, here's Martin Luther: "It was not circumcision that justified Abraham and his seed, although the apostle calls it the seal of the righteousness of faith [Rom. 4:11]; rather, faith in the promise to which circumcision was attached, gave righteousness and implemented what the circumcision signified. For faith was the spiritual circumcision of the heart which was figured by the literal circumcision of the flesh."--"The Pagan Servitude of the Church" YOU LOSE. AGAIN.
Calvinist007 2 months ago
@Calvinit007 Here is Luthers TRUE quote
" This, then, is the difference between the legal types and the new and old signs — the former have not attached to them any word of promise requiring faith . Hence they are not signs of justification , for they are not sacraments of the faith that alone justifies, but only sacraments of works; their whole power and nature consisted in works, not in faith , and he that observed them fulfilled them, even if he did it without faith ... continued .."
Bobsblues 2 months ago
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@Bobsblues "They [the sacraments] are signs, or sacraments, or justification because they are sacraments of a justificatory faith, and not of works. The whole of their effectiveness lies in faith, and not in anything that is done. He who believes in them, fulfils them, even if nothing is done. ..Baptism justifies nobody.; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--Luther, "Pagan Serv."
Calvinist007 2 months ago
" ....But our signs , or sacraments, as well as those of the fathers, have attached to them a word of promise , which requires faith , and they cannot be fulfilled by any other work .....continued .."
Bobsblues 2 months ago
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@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he refutes you SOUNDLY.
Calvinist007 2 months ago
"...Hence they are signs or sacraments of justification , for they are the sacraments of justifying faith and not of works. Their whole efficacy, therefore, consists in faith itself, not in the doing of a work ; for whoever believes them fulfils them, even if he should not do a single work . Whence has arisen the saying, “Not the sacrament but the faith of the sacrament justifies.”
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 2 months ago
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@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he rebukes you CLEARLY.
Calvinist007 2 months ago
@Calvinist007 - " Not the sacrament but the faith of the sacrament justifies.” , this is QUITE different than just faith , it is FAITH IN THE SACRAMENT , WHY ? because there is a promise of salvation given with that sacrament and you must have faith in that promise . This is entirely different than how you try to distort Luthers meaning to appear to be faith without baptism .
Purposly distorting anothers writings is the same as lying, and liars get the lake of fire .
Bobsblues 3 months ago
@Bobsblues That is NOT what Luther said, HERETIC; here's QUITE what he said: 'This is the root of the saying: "Not the sacrament, but the sacramental faith, is what justifies." Accordingly, it was not circumcision that justified Abraham and his seed, although the apostle calls it the seal of the righteousness of faith [Rom. 4:11]; rather, faith in the promise to which circumcision was attached, gave righteousness and implemented what the circumcision signified.'--"Pagan Servitude" YOU LOSE.
Calvinist007 2 months ago
@Calvinist007 " Hence they are signs or sacraments of justification , for they are the sacraments of justifying faith and not of works. Their whole efficacy, therefore, consists in faith itself, not in the doing of a work ; for whoever believes them fulfils them, even if he should not do a single work . Whence has arisen the saying, “Not the sacrament but the faith of the sacrament justifies.”
Above is the quote by Luther INCLUDING THE LAST LINE , which you conveniently left off in your post
Bobsblues 3 months ago
@Bobsblues BAPTISMAL REGENERATIONIST HERETIC, here's Luther: 'This is the root of the saying: "Not the sacrament, but the sacramental faith, is what justifies." Accordingly, it was not circumcision that justified Abraham and his seed, although the apostle calls it the seal of the righteousness of faith [Rom. 4:11]; rather, faith in the promise to which circumcision was attached, gave righteousness and implemented what the circumcision signified.'--"The Pagan Servitude of the Church" YOU LOSE.
Calvinist007 2 months ago
@Calvinist007 - you said "@Bobsblues "They [the sacraments] are signs, or sacraments, or justification because they are sacraments of a justificatory faith, AND NOT OF WORKS . "
NOT OF WORKS !!! YES, NOT OF WORKS !!!, and if baptism is proof of a justificatory faith , the opposite is equally true , NO BAPTISM = UNJUSTIFIED FAITH = NO SALVATION.
AND DUMBO , he did not say it was ONLY a SIGN, quite the opposite, Luther has stated undeniably that baptism is an ongoing process until death.
Bobsblues 3 months ago
@Bobsblues HEY, DUMBO, here's Luther: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude of the Church" Luther has clarified his position, and YOU LOSE. AGAIN.
Calvinist007 2 months ago
@calvinist007 - you said "@Bobsblues "They [the sacraments] are signs, or sacraments, or justification because they are sacraments of a justificatory faith, and not of works. The whole of their effectiveness lies in faith, and not in anything that is done. He who believes in them, fulfils them, even if nothing is done. .. "
YOU IDIOT, Luther is telling you that a person with faith will fullfill the command to be baptized , and NO WORK IS BEING DONE, he is not saying no baptism is done .
Bobsblues 3 months ago
@Bobsblues YOU IDIOT, here's Luther in his own words: "It was not circumcision that justified Abraham and his seed, although the apostle calls it the seal of the righteousness of faith [Rom. 4:11]; rather, faith in the promise to which circumcision was attached, gave righteousness and implemented what the circumcision signified. For faith was the spiritual circumcision of the heart which was figured by the literal circumcision of the flesh."--"The Pagan Servitude of the Church" YOU LOSE.
Calvinist007 2 months ago
@beanbcube2010 - Something that we are commanded to do in order to recieve forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost is hardly a mere superstitious ritual.
Your statement is true for the various rituals invented by men, but baptism was instituted by God .
Bobsblues 3 months ago
Rituals are important parts of superstitions.
beancube2010 3 months ago
@ Calvinist007- LUTHERS WORDS
" This, then, is the difference between the legal types and the new and old signs — the former have not attached to them any word of promise requiring faith . Hence they are not signs of justification , for they are not sacraments of the faith that alone justifies, but only sacraments of works; their whole power and nature consisted in works, not in faith , and he that observed them fulfilled them, even if he did it without faith ... continued ...
Bobsblues 3 months ago
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@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he refutes you CLEARLY.
Calvinist007 3 months ago
... But our signs , or sacraments, as well as those of the fathers, have attached to them a word of promise , which requires faith , and they cannot be fulfilled by any other work ... continued
Bobsblues 3 months ago
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@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he rebukes you SOUNDLY.
Calvinist007 3 months ago
Hence they are signs or sacraments of justification , for they are the sacraments of justifying faith and not of works. Their whole efficacy, therefore, consists in faith itself, not in the doing of a work ; for whoever believes them fulfils them, even if he should not do a single work . Whence has arisen the saying, “Not the sacrament but the faith of the sacrament justifies.”
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 3 months ago
@Bobsblues "They [the sacraments] are signs, or sacraments, or justification because they are sacraments of a justificatory faith, and not of works. The whole of their effectiveness lies in faith, and not in anything that is done. He who believes in them, fulfils them, even if nothing is done. .. Baptism justifies nobody.; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--Luther, "Pagan Serv."
Calvinist007 3 months ago
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@Calvinist007- LIAR , Her YOUTUBE account has been open the entire time.
@Bobsblues LIAR, I meant that God had suspended her activities in the forums in which she had attacked the truth in debates with me; either learn how to think past two dimensions or SHUT UP
@lllannallll ".... God has suspended your activities on YouTube twice; once for about two weeks, and recently for about one month.
Bobsblues 3 months ago
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@Calvinist007
LIAR , You DID SAY THE FOLLOWING,
@Bobsblues "-you didn't understand what I said; your fellow HERETIC didn't send me a reply for about one month, "
@lllannallll ".... God has suspended your activities on YouTube twice; once for about two weeks, and recently for about one month.
Bobsblues 3 months ago
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@Calvinist007
LIAR , You DID SAY THE FOLLOWING,
@Bobsblues "-you didn't understand what I said; your fellow HERETIC didn't send me a reply for about one month, "
@lllannallll ".... God has suspended your activities on YouTube twice; once for about two weeks, and recently for about one month.
Bobsblues 3 months ago
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@Calvinist007
LIAR , You DID SAY THE FOLLOWING,
@Bobsblues "-you didn't understand what I said; your fellow HERETIC didn't send me a reply for about one month, "
@lllannallll ".... God has suspended your activities on YouTube twice; once for about two weeks, and recently for about one month.
Bobsblues 3 months ago
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@Calvinist007
LIAR , You DID SAY THE FOLLOWING,
@Bobsblues "-you didn't understand what I said; your fellow HERETIC didn't send me a reply for about one month, "
@lllannallll ".... God has suspended your activities on YouTube twice; once for about two weeks, and recently for about one month.
Bobsblues 3 months ago
@Calvinist007
LIAR , You DID SAY SUSPENDED
@Bobsblues "-you didn't understand what I said; your fellow HERETIC didn't send me a reply for about one month, "
@lllannallll ".... God has suspended your activities on YouTube twice; once for about two weeks, and recently for about one month.
Bobsblues 3 months ago
@Bobsblues LIAR, I meant that God had suspended her activities in the forums in which she had attacked the truth in debates with me; either learn how to think past two dimensions or SHUT UP. You ALREADY have lost; what saith the Scriptures? I Cor. 15:57 (KJV): "But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." I Jn. 2:14 (KJV): "Ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one." It's only a matter of time before you FALL.
Calvinist007 3 months ago
@Bobsblues Here's a reply that lil' Anna sent me a while back on a Christian forum: 'Good God! Are you just stupid, or truly head-fucked? Why would you make a lame attempt at "correcting" the spelling of a word that wasn't misspelled in the first place.' She had insisted that "supercede" was a correct spelling when in fact the correct spelling is "supersede". She is a PATHETIC LOSER who attacks scriptural truth, just as you do. Isa. 5:20: "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil."
Calvinist007 3 months ago
@Calvinist007 "First of all, ya IDIOT, you do not know why any of my posts may have been spammed." SURE I do: because you copy and paste the SAME POST over and over because you're outta gas.
lllannallll 3 months ago
@lllannallll No, LIAR, you do NOT know why any of my posts may have been spammed; for you all you know, other users may have flagged them as such because, like YOU, THEY are OUTTA GAS and WHIPPED like a LITTLE SQUEALING HOG at the SLAUGHTER. What saith the Scripture? Mk. 1:24 (KJV): "Let [us] alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God." My Savior dwells within my heart, LIAR. YOU DON'T HAVE A PRAYER.
Calvinist007 3 months ago
@Calvinist007 "other users may have flagged them as such because, like YOU, THEY are OUTTA GAS" I've never "marked" your posts as spam - I want people to be sure and read them and observe how DUMB you are. I doubt anyone else did, either. You copy and post the S.O.S. over and over. Why, one time you posted the same post 10 or 12 times when you had nothing more to say. Outta gas, indeed!
lllannallll 3 months ago
@lllannallll I didn't accuse you of marking my posts as "spam", HERETIC. One thing I do know; the Word of God is never "spam". What saith the Scriptures? Rom. 4:3-5 (KJV): "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Why, YOU LOSE; LOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!
Calvinist007 3 months ago
@Calvinist007 "the Word of God is never "spam" Sure it is, by Youtube's standards. And you violated the rules by endlessly copying and pasting the SAME POSTS just to hide the fact that you were being made look stoopit.
lllannallll 3 months ago
@lllannallll Why, I don't care about any standards but God's standards, HERETIC; His Holy Word NEVER is "spam", and anyone who may mark it as such ought to be ashamed of themselves. Why, no, LIAR, I posted the one thing against which you and the DEVIL who is motivating you have NO DEFENSE: the Word of God. What saith the Scriptures? Eph. 2:8-9 (DBY): "For ye are saved by grace, through faith; and this not of yourselves; it is God's gift: not on the principle of works, that no one might boast."
Calvinist007 2 months ago
" But if they say, as they are accustomed: Still Baptism is itself a work, and you say works are of no avail for salvation; what then, becomes of faith? Answer: Yes, our works, indeed, avail nothing for salvation; Baptism, however, is not our work, but God's (for, as was stated, you must put Christ-baptism far away from a bath-keeper's baptism). God's works, however, are saving and necessary for salvation, and do not exclude, but demand, faith; for without faith they could not be apprehended.
Bobsblues 3 months ago
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, YOU LYING DECEIVER: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he opposes you.
Calvinist007 3 months ago
For by suffering the water to be poured upon you, you have not yet received Baptism in such a manner that it benefits you anything; but it becomes beneficial to you if you have yourself baptized with the thought that this is according to God's command and ordinance, and besides in God's name, in order that you may receive in the water the promised salvation. Now, this the fist cannot do, nor the body; but the heart must believe it...
Bobsblues 3 months ago
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, YOU LYING HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther rebukes you soundly with these words.
Calvinist007 3 months ago
Thus you see plainly that there is here no work done by us, but a treasure which He gives us, and which faith apprehends; just as the Lord Jesus Christ upon the cross is not a work, but a treasure comprehended in the Word, and offered to us and received by faith. Therefore they do us violence by exclaiming against us as though we preach against faith; while we alone insist upon it as being of such necessity that without it nothing can be received nor enjoyed.
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 3 months ago
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, YOU LYING HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther has clarified his position here. YOU LOSE.
Calvinist007 3 months ago
" Now, they are so mad as to separate faith and that to which faith clings and is bound though it be something external. Yea, it shall and must be something external, that it may be apprehended by the senses, and understood and thereby be brought into the heart, as indeed the entire Gospel is an external, verbal preaching....
Bobsblues 3 months ago
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, YOU LYING HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" If the Lord will, I will fight you to the end.
Calvinist007 3 months ago
...In short, what God does and works in us He proposes to work through such external ordinances. Wherever, therefore, He speaks, yea, in whichever direction or by whatever means He speaks, thither faith must look, and to that it must hold."
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 3 months ago
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, YOU LYING HERETIC: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself. YOU LOSE. AGAIN.
Calvinist007 3 months ago
"Now here we have the words: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. To what else do they refer than to Baptism, that is, to the water comprehended in God's ordinance? Hence it follows that whoever rejects Baptism rejects the Word of God, faith, and Christ, who directs us thither and binds us to Baptism."
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 3 months ago
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, YOU LYING SNAKE: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he defeats you.
Calvinist007 3 months ago
" And this also we cannot discern better than from the words of Christ above quoted: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. Therefore state it most simply thus, that the power, work, profit, fruit, and end of Baptism is this, namely, to save. For no one is baptized in order that he may become a prince, but, as the words declare, that he be saved.
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 3 months ago
@Bobsblues HERE ARE LUTHER'S WORDS, YOU LYING SERPENT: "What justified Abel was by no means his sacrifice, but his faith; for by this he gave himself up to God, and of this his sacrifice was only the outward figure. Thus, baptism justifies nobody, and gives advantage to nobody; rather, faith in the word of the promise to which baptism was conjoined, is what justifies, and so completes, that which the baptism signified."--"Pagan Servitude" Luther speaks for himself, and he rebukes you.
Calvinist007 3 months ago
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"For to be baptized in the name of God is to be baptized not by men, but by God Himself. Therefore although it is performed by human hands, it is nevertheless truly God's own work "
{ Martin Luther }
Bobsblues 3 months ago