Do you even believe it yourself??? The Soviet union was times worse than Nazi germany, germans didn't at least just kill half of their own people. While Stalin killed off half of Ukraine.
I am really sorry for true russians (not the dumb communists)
because the rich and glorious russian culture was smashed to pieces by the Soviet union.
WTF are they talking about you can´t charge a person hwo never done anything in genocide.Russia never apologized in departing us and killing thousands off Estonias and now they say our former president did a crime.LIBERATION my ass killing wealthie people:doctors,politicians and doctors then stealing the homes of them is just sad we should charge russia off war crimes!
And despite all its faults Russia DID manage in the past years to make huge steps in righting some of the past wrongs (Putin visit to Katyn, Medvedev to Ukraine, film about Katyn shown on national Russian TV). That’s a lot more than can be said for most EU countries like Italy, Austria or Turkey, a future EU member.
In Japan ceremonies are held in honour of the soldiers who committed the worst atrocities of the WWII. How would the world react if Merkel or Putin commemorated Hitler/Stalin?
Reading these comment I realize how primitive and vulgar people are (are all Latvians, Estonians, Polish like that?).
Many of the grievances of these people towards Russia are largely justified and well deserved, however such language only breeds more hate and resentment as well as eliminates any chance of uncovering true objective history (the closest we can get to the truth).
I can see in that historian eyes...hes a drunk, a rapist, an imbicil. Probably got payed by the RUS government to tell all this bullshit ;) He cant be that stupid to realy belive the things hes saying... I doubt that my grandgrand parents dreamed all that what happened in those horrible years.
@klaabu99 10 000 out of million isn´t much. According to Nazis´ Generalplan Ost 50% of Estonians would be exterminated or deported to Siberia and according to Nazi leaders all Estonians would be exterminated and deported in 25 years, Himmler is estimated it would take only 20 years. Estonians were used as military force during the war like Ukranians but after the war they would´ve been exterminated and deported.
@klaabu99 "While the Baltic nations like Estonians would be spared from repressions and physical liquidation that Jews or Poles were experiencing, in the long term the Nazi planners did not foresee their existence as independent entitites and they would be deported as well, with eventual denationalisation; initial designs were for Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia to be Germanised within 25 years, however Heinrich Himmler revised them to 20 years."
in ussr they planned to have only 1 nation ... if u think i'm talking about russians then u are not correct ... that nation was soviet human or something like that(sovetskii chelovek) ... they still had that plan in mid 80's
@klaabu99 Russians are a nation of 140 million people. If they wanted to deport and exterminate all of you people, they could´ve easily done that if they wanted to. But they didn´t want. Unlike the Nazis they wanted to peacefully co-exist with you people. If they only deported 10 000 of you people, that is very little. In Finland Whites killed or otherwise caused the death (prison camps) of over 30 000 Reds. If deaths in Civil War are included, it is 36 000. 10 000 is nothing.
Sorry, but that 140 million people includes also farmers, workers etc who are not interested in deporting anyone. It is the politicians who decide about deportations, and there is no 140 million politicians in Russia.
10,000 people is "very little"? May I remind you that Estonia had only 1.5 million people (including Russians and others), so 10,000 Estonians is around 1% of Estonians. Deporting 1% of nation is "very little" for you?
Also, what "peaceful co-exist" are you talking about? That "co-exist" consisted of nothing else but total russification. Look at many other former Soviet countries - many of them have completely lost their local language and traditions and are practically Russian. That is "peaceful co-existing" for you?
We are just so powerful nation that even your stalins couldn't destroy us despite all efforts. And we destroyed your favorite Soviet Union. Keep crying but it won't come back any more. Even if it tries, we are here to stop it.
@Hobu123 I know... it's nice to hear that and feel that we were able to defeat that fooking giant mother russia just by singing and holding hands, but as time goes by i just can't help it... i feel that we're not that free at all. We were just too much to handle at that time and were just sold to the western zionist...
@Hobu123 10 000 isn´t 1% of 1500000 people and secondly 14% of Russians died in WW2. 10 000 is not much. Secondly many of those 10 000 were murderers themselves who had butchered innocent civilians. Most of them were not some innocent victims who hadn´t done anything! You Estonians act like everything that happened to you people is a huge deal. Like you´re the most important nation in the World. Get real, you haven´t accomplished anything significant even 20 years after Communism.
I said - around 1% of ESTONIANS, while 1.5 million includes all other people too who live in Estonia.
Second, the people who were deported were mostly innocent people, usual people whose only "guilt" was that they were in the way of someone.
Estonia has achieved many things after communism, including building a nice e-country. But if you classify nations into "important" and "non-important" then you are obviously one of the potential mass murderer and nazis.
@Hobu123 Estonia doesn´t have and never did have 500 000 Russians. And you have proof that the deported were "innocent"? No, cause most of them were NOT. They were mostly murderers and had Nazi connections. I think Estonia might actually in some way be worse after Communism. It is a crime-ridden country with many people homeless living on the streets. Some, the elite, is doing fine and they have no conscience so they don´t take care of the poor people by paying more taxes.
Yes, of course there is proof, you should stop absorbing the nonsensical Russian propaganda lies and actually do some research. There is more proof than you can study.
Also you are wrong about the numbers. There is about 30% Russians in Estonia.
The crime levels in Estionia are much lower than in Russia and there are no "numerous homeless on streets".
Come visit Estonia and see yourself that what nonsensical Russian propaganda machine tells you is not correct.
@Hobu123 However I think Russians and Estonians should be friends. But Estonians live in this illusion that everything that happened to them is a huge deal when truth is many kinds of atrocities happened to practically all European nations during WW2 etc. Some just make more noise of it than others. Estonians should basically get over it and stop constantly annoying Russians deliberately. Germans are the ones who would´ve exterminated all Estonians, not Russians.
@Hobu123 No it´s 25%. Crime levels low in Estonia? What a joke. I live in Finland and the largest foreign criminal group here is Estonians. Stop lying. And the only "proof" of "innocent" Estonians being sent to Siberia is apparently your own words. Thousands of Estonians participated in Nazi atrocities. What happened to them when "innocent" Estonians only were sent to Siberia? Give me a break.
@Hobu123 I didn´t even know who Bäckman was until Estonians started blabbing about him in YouTube. I have never seen him in Finnish tv. He obviously gets much more attention in Estonia than in Finland. Are you suggesting Estonia has low crime rates perhaps? Just google "Estonian man" and you´ll see that nearly all results are crime news.
pls explain me how did get nazi criminals to estonia before 22 june 1941 .. .. i was pretty sure that germans came couple month later .... but seems like u know better pls share u knowledge with us
you are right estonia didn't had 500000 russians .. but there was around 500000 who were not estonians
and there is not 140 millions russians in russia .. there is much less than 100 millions russians
@klaabu99 Many of the 10 000 people deported were also not ethnic Estonians. Many were ethnic Germans and hundeds were Jews. And many of that 20% of Estonians who were killed were also ethnic minorities who you had exterminated yourself! So the number is irrelevant. Secondly Germans exterminated over 7000 ethnic Estonians too, that´s not far from the number Russians deported.
@klaabu99 "Thus the Soviets specifically targeted anti-Soviet nationalists, supporters and kin of the Forest Brothers, veterans who served in the German military and relatives of those already held in the Soviet Gulag for alleged anti-Soviet activities." "Veterans of German military". Sounds like Nazi connection to me. Estonians were also deported in June 14, a few weeks before Nazi attack to Estonia. Many of them may also have connections to Nazi Army. Not all, but some did.
officially germany was USSR ally before 22 june 1941 ..
one thing was true they targeted anti-soviet ... most of estonian officers counted as anti-soviets and ppl who fought against russia during independence war were also .. lot of men were executed because of that 1942/43
ummm .. how can there be german military veterans before june 1941??? can u explain it to me???
list of deportation were made in 1940 .... forest brothers were in estonia after war not before..
@klaabu99 The quote was about Operation Priboi, not about those who were deported in June 1944. However those people were deported just a FEW WEEKS, I think it was merely TWO WEEKS before Germans attacked. So yes they could very well have had Nazi connections. They may have helped Germans plan the the attack to Estonia. Or some of them might have. Secondly over 4000 of those 10 000 people returned. I don´t see what the big tragedy here is.
@klaabu99 Much more people, proportionally too, were killed in other 'European nations during WW2 but they don´t complain nearly as much as Estonians. Most Jews today understand that they should not blame modern-day Germans for what their grandfathers and great grandfathers did but I haven´t seen or heard of any Estonian who was as smart about Russians.
difference is that germany admitted that what happened was bad and should never happen again ... but russia refuse to admit it and say they saved starving ppl .. if they stayed here even more died .. they lied then and they lie now ...
forget about nazi connections .. there was plan how many ppl should be deported and where and by the plan they made lists(it's a fact) ... there was nothing about nazis .. it was all about "anti-soviet element"
@klaabu99 Like I already said, Russia is a country of 140 million people. If they wanted to kill and deport all or most Estonians, they could easily have done it. And if Nazis had won, all Estonians would eventually have been exterminated and deported and you wouldn´t be here blabbing nonsense. So in that sense Estonians should be grateful. Hatred between Russians and Estonians is as ridiculous as hatred between some Swedes and Finns. Russians and Estonians have a lot in common.
thing is not about hatred but about the fact that it happened, it was bad and it should never happen again .. but instead someone said that collapse of USSR was biggest geopolitical catastrophe ... he is not correct .. USSR was biggest geopolitical catastrophe
@klaabu99 When you look at democraphic rates of Estonia, you´ll see that during Communism the population rate of Estonia was constantly growing. Especially during 60´s and 70´s, the better times of Communism, the population rate of Estonia grew very rapidly and the birth rates were much higher than they are now. After Communism the birth rates of all Eastern European countries are even lower than the birth rates of Western European states and the population is on a constant decrease.
u are right estonian population grow very fast ... just in few weeks when new colonist arrived(i don't know better word ) ... there was around 1.1 millions estonians in estonia before WW2 and there is a bit less right now .. and estonians had very high birth rates 1990-93 .. and it wasn't better times of communism ... i guess it will go under category after communism(of course we were still part of USSR until 1991)...
@klaabu99 In the better times of Communism Soviet Union was a viable super power. It was known for advanced space program etc. I don´t see such progress in Eastern European and Slavic states today. It´s more like the development in these countries is stalling. It´s very naive to think that Communism was all bad and today is much better. In polls East Germans have said they were happier living in Communist DDR than as part of Germany.
@klaabu99 Or maybe it would be like it is today, a crime-ridden country and one of the poorest countries in Europe where the elite (to which you probably belong in) is doing fine while most people are more or less poor. If Estonia, still after 50 years or more, is in the state it is in now, everyone should just admit there are other factors that cause it than Communism.
@klaabu99 Estonia has one of the lowest GDP´s in Europe. I think some Finnish reporter who lives in Estonia wrote an article about how Estonia has changed from the wealthiest state of Soviet Union to the poorest state of EU. It is quite correct. And no I am not a Russian. I just think Russians and Estonians should be friends like Finns and Swedes should be too. You are part of Estonian elite so you are motivated by desire to preserve your elite status and therefore view Russians as a threat.
i read that article in estonian .. and reply to him from other finnish journalist .. he didn't live in estonia ... i belive he lived in helsingi ... and estonia is not poorest state of EU .. you should ask russians why they don't want friendship ..
oh and one more thing .. i'm not "elite" .. usual worker .. and i don't see russians as threat .. i see soviets as threat .. btw politically correct would be "ethnical russian" .. actually it's pretty pointless to argue with u... END
@Adinax86 You apparently know absolutely fuck all about Estonia, if you think that the crime rate is high. The crime rate is very low, and the streets of Tallinn are one of the safest in Europe. Estonia is also the richest country in Eastern Europe (not counting Finland, which is technically Northern Europe).
Indeed, in the Eurozone (countries using the EURO as their currency) it is the poorest country, however in the European Union it is not, by a great margin.
@galfyproductions The richest country in Eastern Europe? There is no such thing as a rich Eastern European country. You mean the least poor out of poor Eastern European trash states?
@galfyproductions As for crime "The crime rate in Estonia is high compared to other industrialized countries.... According to the INTERPOL data, for murder, the rate in 2000 was 13.73 for Estonia, 1.10 for Japan, and 5.51 for USA... For robbery, the rate in 2000 was 335.65 for Estonia, 4.08 for Japan, and 144.92 for USA...For burglary, the rate in 2000 was 1699.95 for Estonia, 233.60 for Japan, and 728.42 for USA."
@karriim00 Crime rates are high in those countries as well. What was your point, that crime rates in Estonia are on the same level as crime rates of many other former USSR states? I just saw news that crime committed by foreigners in Finland has signficantly increased and that most crimes committed by foreigners are Estonians, Lithuanians and Romanians.
@superkalle3333 Estonian criminals must´ve come here then cause the crime rates of Estonians in Finland are on a constant increase. Estonia is getting so poor that there´s nothing to steal anymore so they go abroad.
Funny thing, the eestis loves to compare themselves to Finland but while the people of Finland is known for its fighting spirit, the eestis rather bitch and submitte to their masters.
Except their masters are now broke and will have to auction "estonia" to China or South Korea soon.
@Fridaey13txhOktober They do indeed but in reality they are genetically just like other Baltic people and Russians. Google "Estonians are not like Finns" and you´ll find a link about it. Think about the irony, people who are in essence Slavs demonize Slavs and consider them inferior. So clueless.
@galfyproductions I think the only reason why crime in Estonia has decreased at all is that Estonian criminals go to more lucrative countries like Finland and Estonia to commit crimes. 45% of foreign prisoners in Finland are ethnic Estonians and Russians (25% Estonian citizens and most of the Russian citizens too come from Estonia).
@Adinax86 I belive that all you have written is in fact wrong. I cant even start disputing your illusions . I belive you are of russian heritage and so i recomend that you should be informed of your presidents words that Russia should start a destalinification of the russian society as germany did after 2 world war and apologize for the wrong communism did against the lands and people whom the glowing Soviet Union occupied.
@karriim00 Stop blaming Communism and being a stereotypical annoying Estonian. Finland, Sweden and Norway have a social-democratic welfare, healthcare, tax and other socio-economic systems that are based on Socialsm and these countries are among the wealthiest in the World. Estonia is ruled by wealthy elitists who brainwash poor people into believing that Communism is the sole cause for their misery and they can freely rob the poor people when they have to pay the same % of taxes as poor people.
@klaabu99 Latvians and Lithuanians have spoken Fenno-Ugric languages too before. Latvians used to speak Livonian. Latvians and Lithuanians also have 10% more the Uralic haplogroup N1C1 than Estonians. Genetically Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians are very closely related to each other and thus they´re all Batlic people. They were also classified in the same group by Nazis.
no u are not correct .. latvian and lithuanian are baltic languages, livonian and estonian are fenno.ugric .. The native land of the Livonian people is Livonia, located in Latvia, in the north of the Kurzeme peninsula.
@klaabu99 No you dumb Estonian don´t understand what I said. I said Latvians and Lithuanians have spoken Fenno-Ugric languages in historic times. Livonian is one of those languages. The first people in Latvia and Lithuania spoke a Fenno-Ugric language. Like Estonians they have since mixed extensively with Slavs and therefore are related to Poles and other Slavs.
so ppl on territory of russia used to speak fenno-ugric language but it does not mean that russians used to speak fenno-ugric language ... and only one who is DUMB here is u... ok thats pointless to argue with moron like u
@klaabu99 Yes Eastern and Northern Russians are Fenno-Ugric and they have much more Fenno-Ugric genes than modern-day Latvians, Lithuanins, Estonians or Finns. Estonians, Finns, Latvians and Lithuanians only have Fenno-Ugric genes in their Y-DNA. 27% of Finns, about 16% of Latvians and Lithuanians and even less Estonians have Fenno-Ugric genes. Fenno-Ugric people belong in Asian race and come from behind Ural mountains in Russia. Most descendants of those people still live in East Russia.
@klaabu99 There is no major difference between Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians. They´re closely related to each other. "The more than 25,000 blood samples collected already make it possible to conduct various background studies. For example, comparing the genetic data of Estonians with other European nations has revealed that Latvians, Lithuanians, Poles and some Russians are genetically much more similar to Estonians than the Finns with whom Estonians share a similar language."
@Hobu123 Yeah and what exactly was unclear to you about the genetics research results? It says Estonians are closely related to Lithuanians, Latvians, Poles and Russians. Russians, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians are all an intermediate between Slavs and Uralic people. The funny thing is, Estonians think "Uralic" is the same as Nordic and something completely different from Russians. Fact is Uralic people and Uralic language come from EAST RUSSIA.
Take a quick course in genetics and also read a bit more than just one article. Your interpretations and personal conclusions of the research are a bit off, that is the problem.
@Hobu123 So what would be your interpretations of the research then? It clearly says Latvians, Lithuanians, Poles and some Russians are much more closely related to Estonians and Finns. It was conducted by Tarto University and the sample size is very large. So what you´re saying is Tarto University geneticists are unqualified.
@Hobu123 AND WHAT WOULD BE YOUR INTERPRETATIONS OF THIS: "The more than 25,000 blood samples collected already make it possible to conduct various background studies. For example, comparing the genetic data of Estonians with other European nations has revealed that Latvians, Lithuanians, Poles and some Russians are genetically much more similar to Estonians than the Finns with whom Estonians share a similar language."?
@Hobu123 I didn´t say you said I am unqualified (I don´t ever ask opinions from Estonians about me). I said you suggest Tarto University geneticists are unqualified since they conducted this research. It is part of the Estonian genetics research.
"what exactly was unclear to you about the genetics research results? It says Estonians are closely related to Lithuanians, Latvians, Poles and Russians. Russians, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians are all an intermediate between Slavs and Uralic people."
where can i find info about this genetic research???
fact is that there was no russia or russian when uralic ppl started to move
@klaabu99 But here you are complaining about 10 000. I wonder how many of these 10 000 had participated in Nazi cruelties and how many had, in fact, themselves killed other Estonians. They weren´t all just innocent Estonians who were deported or executed without any reason.
u can find uself .. howmany of them were children, how many of them were elder ppl and how many of them were women ... basicly if someone from u family was in german, police etc army all family was deported, if u was businessman under german occupation all u family was deported, if u was german(baltic german) all u family was deported .. etc .. if u was officer in estonian army all u family was deported(like my relatives)
btw about what nazi cruelties are talkin before 22 june 1941
@klaabu99 "The final version of Generalplan Ost, essentially a grand plan for ethnic cleansing, was divided into two parts; the "Small Plan" (Kleine Planung), which covered actions which were to be taken during the war, and the "Big Plan" (Grosse Planung), which covered actions to be undertaken after the war was won, and to be implemented gradually over a period of 25 to 30 years."
@klaabu99 "Percentages of ethnic groups targeted for elimination by Nazi Germany from future settlement areas Ethnic group Percentage subject to removal
Wow this historian is just such a fucking retard, people like this should not be asked over for interviews. Just living his Pro-Communist shit dream.
SUCK A DICK COMMUNIST RUSSIANS!! You shitty regime is done for, and it was the shittiest regime ever- so much death has never been seen on the face of the earth. At least something you excel at - mass murder - now go to a cave and fuck your sister.
The reason your country is a shit hole draining mine of taxpayer money is not because of Russia or communism but because you have a clueless, serf mentality.
Stalin was mistaken, instead of bringing the 20th century to Ostland, he should have emptied Ostland with deportations. = None of you tossers bitching about "genocide of the bad Russians" today.
There were numerous accounts of war crimes by Soviet armed forces—plunder, the murder of civilians, and rape. In both Soviet and current Russian history books on the "Great patriotic war" these war crimes are rarely mentioned.
Alexander Djukov and historian???? This has to be a joke!!! Trying to justify crimes of soviet regime. In Soviet Union most of intelligent people were executed, because intelligent people were dangerous to Soviet Union. Intelligent people were killed and left were only....like Djukov.
Why does Russian media always try to defend soviet crimes????? This historian actually states that Estonia a free country with a democraticly elected government is using Nazi propaganda, what rubbish. The only propaganda comes straight from the Kremlin through RT tv.
@arsenal92 Typical brainwashed rhetoric. You must read a lot of postimees.ee.Say hi to George Bush for me. It's exactly what he want's you to think about Russia.
Soviet partisans: NKVD puppets and stay-behind agents. The ethnic cleansing of entire eastern Estonia is a fact. Russians should not whitewash Soviet history. Nor should USA whitewash their anti-Axis war crimes.
that historian actually might not know the truth. There are 2 types of archives in russia 1) what really happend 2) what they thought up. If someones goes to the first archive then tey are charged with treason and get punished, but the second archive is open for everyone.
It's kind of interesting how this discussion has a 'neutral' character, asking about facts, a 'pro-russian' "historian" , but where is the 'pro-estonian'? This isn't a dialogue, it's a monologue.
@veiakas Actually it shouldn't be a 'pro-something' matter, it should be a matter of truth. For example most of Estonians today (thanks to "pro-Estonian" historians like Mart Laar) think that SU killed about 100 000 of them just for being Estonians. While in fact only 22-25 000 people were sent to Siberia (! not to gulags) of whom 18500 returned home in 1959. When Dyukov came to Tallinn last year he challenged Mart Laar to the debate (a form of dialogue) but he didn't show up.
@cyberrate@cyberrate Did you also count in the Russain Bombing of tallin, when 44 bombers levelled like the sentral town, and not any military targets, civilian houses, churches etc.
Also, who is pulling numbers out of their arse? It wasn't 22-2500, it was way more than that. Type Soviet Estonia to wikipedia.
And other sources include my grandparents for example? What are your sources exactly?
@veiakas "levelled like the sentral town" - this is exactly what I'm talking about, you sound like a typical victim of russophobia. Think about it, the central of town is ok now, I walk there everyday. So how was it leveled? Also do you realize that the town was occupied by Nazis? Or do you think that pilots deliberately aimed at non military targets? Sources: Go to Estonian embassy in Russia page and switch to English, then go to History and look there. May I ask what are your sources?
@cyberrate You walk there now, yes, but have you seen the video footage taken? You should go to the Kiek in de Kök museum, there is a new exhibition open, undergound tunnels, that have been renovated. There's a good movie about it there. As to being russofobic, true, most Estonians are. But for some reason, most ex-soviet countries are, I wonder why is that? Occupied by nazis indeed, but the rules of international warfare declare, that civilian targets are not to be bombed, e.g. churces.
@cyberrate Also, could you put the link here, about the Hisrtory, in the Estonian embassy in Russia, becasue I didn't find the history link there. Where are Your facts coming from?
@veiakas Sent you a PM. here is a quote:The largest of these deportations took place 60 years ago this year: on 25 March 1949 more than 20 000 people, mostly women and children, were deported from Estonia.
@cyberrate Quote "The two deportations that affected Estonia the most deeply, on 14 June 1941 and 25 March 1949, are observed as days of mourning. The largest of these deportations took place 60 years ago this year: on 25 March 1949 more than 20 000 people, mostly women and children, were deported from Estonia." You are only talking about one deportation.
@veiakas Yes, there was another one on 14 June 1941 but it affected even smaller amount of people. About bombings: The town wasn't "leveled" like you wrote, it's a lie. Only several buildings were destroyed, but then later Tallinn was reconstructed by SU anyway, and you need to keep in mind that Red Army was bombing it's own territory occupied by Nazis.
@veiakas No I didn't. But anyway you wrote "levelled like the sentral town" which is completely misleading. And you know that you can't incriminate it to Russians or SU since it was their own territory occupied by Nazis, and because SU actually restored all the damage.
The Baltics NEVER voted to join the SU. Are you seriously arguing that there was a legitimate vote in the Soviet Union?
No wonder it took an independent Latvia to properly memorialize the Jews murdered in Šķēde and Rumbala. I'd hate to remind you that the Soviet occupiers only allowed a monument to be dedicated to the "Soviet Citizens" murdered there. I'd love to ask Mr. Zuroff if that is considered history rewriting.
@montfaucon1916 "The Baltics NEVER voted to join the SU. Are you seriously arguing that there was a legitimate vote in the Soviet Union? " - Yes, it is documented.Can you prove me wrong? With references and witness testimonies? You know it may seem wrong now but at that time is was the only right move. With Hitler advancing everyday and taking country after country, it wasn't a bad idea.
Poznań 1956, Budapest 1956, Prague 1968 and the Martial Law in Poland in 1980 at a minimum are all testiments to Soviet Russian policy. No more explanation needed about Putin's view of the "greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.
To hell with Russian imperialism. Oh by the way, as for the Baltics having bad relations with Russia: do not expect us to thank you for eliminating our leadership and our way of life from 1940-1991!
@montfaucon1916 Those were uprisings, first of which has got nothing to do with SU. Uprisings are dealt with brutally sometimes but these are not acts of genocide or crimes against humanity, things like that happen everywhere even in Estonia, even in 2007. That phrase is taken out of the context, the last thing Putin wants it to return to SU. OK can I expect you to thank Russian people for bringing you education, television, health care and TEACHING YOU TO READ/WRITE IN YOUR OWN LANGUAGE?
They were the result of an evil occupation from an evil empire! Unless you want to justify the Soviet Russian presence in the "Warsaw Pact!"
Yes, I thank those idiots who tried to make us a minority in our own country. I thank them for holding us back for 50 years as the rest of western Europe developed. It may be hard for you to understand, but our economy and standard of living paralleled Belgium in the 1930s. All the Soviet Russians gave us was misery and occupation!
Teaching Estonians to read and write :) :) over 98% of Estonians were able to read and write in the end of 1800 (a number Russia still strive to achieve today) As for health- care and general life standard- it never reached the pre- war level during entire soviet occupation :)
Your beloved culture bringers for example shot my grandfathers brother just because he was ridding a bicycle and the well educated -cultural, liberators from Russia had never seen such a thing
@kaptenkagu I'm sorry for your relative, but was collaborating with Nazis or helping "forest brothers" to kill people who supported Soviet Union? Would you know this? Estonia joined SU in 1940 so you still can't go around the fact that during Soviet presence in Estonia Estonians got educated in their own language by Soviet Union.
Cyberrate must be an idiot. During deportation in Estonia, communist deported not Nazi and forest brothers supporters but cultural elite and richer people. First deportations took place after occupation of independent Estonia in 1940. There were no Nazi supporters and no forest brothers during that time. Maybe it is the new and "right" history in Russia, where Cyberate gets is information.
@roamless Most of the people deported in 1949 (the biggest deportation wave) were helping forest brothers, after the deportations the forest brothers activity actually stopped. Anyway people were not deported or shot, like you wrote, just because they were well educated and riding a bicycle. People were deported by Stalin for "anti-soviet" activities which also included collaborating with Nazis and forest brothers.
@cyberrate Deportations began in 1940. The first wave was the bloodiest. "Anti-Soviet" activite was also owning a farm and not joining a collective farm or owning western literature. Deportations were crime against humanity. See also UN resolution about it. And by the way, you are talking about 1949, but why not about deportations in 1940 ?
@roamless Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to justify Stalin's crimes. But to be fair the deportations is not as bad as you (or UN for that matter) are trying to present it. Have you been to Siberia? Are you aware of the fact that deported people were not put to prison or GULAG or what ever. Do you know how many people got deported? Do you know how many were rehabilitated and actually got back from Siberia? To be continued...
@ReVox777 ...oxomoron's point is that he is a rabid anti-fascist, english, protestant, living in London and hates everyone in the Baltics except the russians. He considers all Baltic people to be nazis.
@oxonboy The point is Nazi death camps existed..Siberian camps were just normal prison camps for Nazi war criminals..not the same..no innocent people were killed there.
@oxonboy Deportees were not even sent to camps, mate they were sent to several territories in Siberia but there were no "camp regime", no fence, no barbwire, no barracks and the lot. In another words they were simply relocated. And let me tell you sometimes, I want to relocate to Siberia myself, the fishing there is probably the best in the world.
@cyberrate Ah, thanks for that information. It is good to see more people challenging the pro Nazi viewpoint that seems to be very fashionable in mainland europe at the moment..
18500 people out of 20-30 000 deported from Estonia were rehabilitated and returned home in 1959. Some people died but it wasn't because of the transportation. Did you expect SU to send limos to deport people in 1940? Trains like that were all they had at that time.
@cyberrate Dude, you are brainwashed. Before ww2 Estonia had statistics of the population, after the red plague we recounted our people and saw how much were lost. Where did they all go then? Did the cookie monster invite them to the planet Zaigon to have a party in top hats? Guess by your logic a large part of our people vanished into thin air. Nigga please.
Why was it necessary to deport them at all? Didn't they have homes to live in, jobs to perform, families to care for? Or perhaps Stalin had the same thought as when he considered mass deportations for Hungary: "The Hungarian problem is a problem of boxcars."
Learning the wrong lessons from history can be worse than not learning them at all.
@ReVox777 I have been living in Siberia for about 7 years. But that's irrelevant since Estonian deportees were not even sent to camps, they were sent to territories (Irkutsk, Tambov ...) where they were moving freely and continued to live their lives as families. Only condition was that they had to visit the authorities once a month for a check.
@cyberrate .. were given minutes to gather whatever you could, forcibly removed, herded into cattle trucks and shipped out? Or did you make a choice to go there, with a mobile phone? computer? warm clothes, running water etc etc.
Remember that was in the 1940's; not your voluntary 2000's.
@roamless I assume by "UN resolution" you mean the Europarliament resolution from April 2, 2009. Mind you UN in not even close to Europarliament. This resolution condemns "crimes against humanity committed by all all totalitarian and authoritarian regimes". Anyway, Estonia joined SU voluntary in 1940 by issuing petition to Soviet government stating the will to join the Union. It was the right decision at that time because at that time Estonia had to face Hitler with SU or face SU with Hitler.
@cyberrate Same is to say, that Danish joined Nazi Germany voluntary. Also Finland tryed to join Soviet Union "voluntary" at that same time but stupid Finnish didn`t understood world voluntary and resisted their liberator:))) If someone has to give up their freedom at gunpoint, only wery narrow minded people can call it voluntary.
@roamless I understand that you are suggesting that SU had gun to Estonia's head in 1940, if so can you prove it? Because otherwise you are just another victim of modern Baltic brainwashing and russophobia.
@cyberrate Yes I can prove it, all western countrys know it. Only you and some of your russian mates think differently. No one has brainwashed me, I read western historians not Russian propagandists like Dyukov. Some of my relatives are also russian, so how can I be russophobic. Does it make me russophobic that I think differnetly than you?
I wanted do post Wikipedia link about Estonian real history (according to Western historians), but youtube does not for some reason let me post links. But can you cyberpunk prove, that Estonia was not occupied? And please give me links do some well known and respected western historian and not to some russian state propagandist like Dykov
@cyberrate Well that's kind of what it was. In a nutshell, we had the option of either agreeing to Russian terms and hoping it wouldn't get that bad, or facing a war. Could you explain what exactly did you want to see proof of? The fact that Estonian people were against joining USSR or that the Estonian leaders were essentially forced to agree to it? Both? ...
that bastard!
virko1990 2 weeks ago
that s a load of rubbish - you killers, socialist smugs!!! - load of a tipical russian propaganda!!! makes me sick!!!
triinuriinu 2 months ago 9
25 percent of estonians died at WW 2 u should shut ur mouth to shiiithole
mobhog 3 months ago 4
u idiot theres no claim for logic or any thing any people took just to fulfill
mobhog 3 months ago
i seen an idiot big time
mobhog 3 months ago
Yeah, the soviets never harmed anyone...
Do you even believe it yourself??? The Soviet union was times worse than Nazi germany, germans didn't at least just kill half of their own people. While Stalin killed off half of Ukraine.
I am really sorry for true russians (not the dumb communists)
because the rich and glorious russian culture was smashed to pieces by the Soviet union.
xaxk007 3 months ago
Fuck russians.Finnic people,STAY STRONG!
GreedAndSelfishness 4 months ago 2
incorporated.. wtf, we were occupied, and threatend with bloodshed.....
munajuhe 6 months ago 7
even his specs look Soviet
JohannMint 7 months ago
Deportation blablabla, bullshit.
Netherless that is what Stalin SHOULD have done, no more irrelevant "estonia" today to bitch and stirre up shit.
Fridaey13txhOktober 7 months ago
WTF are they talking about you can´t charge a person hwo never done anything in genocide.Russia never apologized in departing us and killing thousands off Estonias and now they say our former president did a crime.LIBERATION my ass killing wealthie people:doctors,politicians and doctors then stealing the homes of them is just sad we should charge russia off war crimes!
superkalle3333 7 months ago
I can't believe any self-respecting journalist would actually work for RussiaToday
gauss25 8 months ago
First lie starts on 0:06.
Vabapaase 8 months ago
27 fags liked this video, fuck ya :D
Kartuliseeme 8 months ago
What a piece of shit video, I bet there's not one RT video not bashing, twisting and lying about history in baltics.
Trinivalts 9 months ago
I cant belive my eyes that this kind of propaganda and lies is published and there are peopel who belive this
karriim00 9 months ago
how could they just lie? i don't get it.. JUST ADMIT IT YOU MURDERERS.
ppatrikfromEST 10 months ago
And despite all its faults Russia DID manage in the past years to make huge steps in righting some of the past wrongs (Putin visit to Katyn, Medvedev to Ukraine, film about Katyn shown on national Russian TV). That’s a lot more than can be said for most EU countries like Italy, Austria or Turkey, a future EU member.
In Japan ceremonies are held in honour of the soldiers who committed the worst atrocities of the WWII. How would the world react if Merkel or Putin commemorated Hitler/Stalin?
JD12ish 10 months ago
Reading these comment I realize how primitive and vulgar people are (are all Latvians, Estonians, Polish like that?).
Many of the grievances of these people towards Russia are largely justified and well deserved, however such language only breeds more hate and resentment as well as eliminates any chance of uncovering true objective history (the closest we can get to the truth).
JD12ish 10 months ago
DYUKOV...... XD
thet guy is the russian top 1 propaganda story writer..
if he is in any news ... than its comunist propaganda..
kalvishkungs18 11 months ago
Funny - Russia could accept what they did and apologize and they would earn lots of respect, even in Estonia.
But they keep living in denial and lies and then whine why nobody takes them seriously.
Hobu123 1 year ago
Everyone who denies that mass murder existed is a mass murderer himself.
Hobu123 1 year ago
By Reds I mean those, mostly working class people, who fought on the Red side (Red Guards) in Finnish Civil War. I don´t mean Russian Red Army.
Adinax86 1 year ago
I can see in that historian eyes...hes a drunk, a rapist, an imbicil. Probably got payed by the RUS government to tell all this bullshit ;) He cant be that stupid to realy belive the things hes saying... I doubt that my grandgrand parents dreamed all that what happened in those horrible years.
pagalelv 1 year ago
he's an pathetic excuse for an historian
anton2maa 1 year ago
and more facts: 3344 people, family heads, were separated from their wives
and children while being placed into railway cars for cattle, arrested
and taken to prison camps in Siberia, where 84.95% of them were
executed, murdered or simply perished.
klaabu99 1 year ago
simple facts: The extensive deportation of June 14th and July 1st, 1941, resulted
in repression of a total of 10882 persons – approximately 1%
of the population of Estonia. 7049 of those people, family members,
were sent to Russia for permanent forced settlement – 33.1% died
there.
klaabu99 1 year ago
@klaabu99 10 000 out of million isn´t much. According to Nazis´ Generalplan Ost 50% of Estonians would be exterminated or deported to Siberia and according to Nazi leaders all Estonians would be exterminated and deported in 25 years, Himmler is estimated it would take only 20 years. Estonians were used as military force during the war like Ukranians but after the war they would´ve been exterminated and deported.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
u are not correct about generalplan ost .. u should read more carefully ... estonians are not balts ..
klaabu99 1 year ago
@klaabu99 "While the Baltic nations like Estonians would be spared from repressions and physical liquidation that Jews or Poles were experiencing, in the long term the Nazi planners did not foresee their existence as independent entitites and they would be deported as well, with eventual denationalisation; initial designs were for Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia to be Germanised within 25 years, however Heinrich Himmler revised them to 20 years."
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
in ussr they planned to have only 1 nation ... if u think i'm talking about russians then u are not correct ... that nation was soviet human or something like that(sovetskii chelovek) ... they still had that plan in mid 80's
klaabu99 1 year ago
@klaabu99 Russians are a nation of 140 million people. If they wanted to deport and exterminate all of you people, they could´ve easily done that if they wanted to. But they didn´t want. Unlike the Nazis they wanted to peacefully co-exist with you people. If they only deported 10 000 of you people, that is very little. In Finland Whites killed or otherwise caused the death (prison camps) of over 30 000 Reds. If deaths in Civil War are included, it is 36 000. 10 000 is nothing.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
Sorry, but that 140 million people includes also farmers, workers etc who are not interested in deporting anyone. It is the politicians who decide about deportations, and there is no 140 million politicians in Russia.
10,000 people is "very little"? May I remind you that Estonia had only 1.5 million people (including Russians and others), so 10,000 Estonians is around 1% of Estonians. Deporting 1% of nation is "very little" for you?
Hobu123 1 year ago
Also, what "peaceful co-exist" are you talking about? That "co-exist" consisted of nothing else but total russification. Look at many other former Soviet countries - many of them have completely lost their local language and traditions and are practically Russian. That is "peaceful co-existing" for you?
Hobu123 1 year ago
"That "co-exist" consisted of nothing else but total russification."
LOL, false.
It is what Stalin SHOULD have done, there would be no more "estonia" or "latvia" today and that would be a good thing.
Fridaey13txhOktober 7 months ago
@Fridaey13txhOktober
We are just so powerful nation that even your stalins couldn't destroy us despite all efforts. And we destroyed your favorite Soviet Union. Keep crying but it won't come back any more. Even if it tries, we are here to stop it.
Hobu123 7 months ago 12
This has been flagged as spam show
You are not German, not yet.
Fridaey13txhOktober 2 months ago
@Hobu123 I know... it's nice to hear that and feel that we were able to defeat that fooking giant mother russia just by singing and holding hands, but as time goes by i just can't help it... i feel that we're not that free at all. We were just too much to handle at that time and were just sold to the western zionist...
So technically nothings changed -.- BOOOO!
APokeInTheEye 2 weeks ago
@Hobu123 10 000 isn´t 1% of 1500000 people and secondly 14% of Russians died in WW2. 10 000 is not much. Secondly many of those 10 000 were murderers themselves who had butchered innocent civilians. Most of them were not some innocent victims who hadn´t done anything! You Estonians act like everything that happened to you people is a huge deal. Like you´re the most important nation in the World. Get real, you haven´t accomplished anything significant even 20 years after Communism.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
I said - around 1% of ESTONIANS, while 1.5 million includes all other people too who live in Estonia.
Second, the people who were deported were mostly innocent people, usual people whose only "guilt" was that they were in the way of someone.
Estonia has achieved many things after communism, including building a nice e-country. But if you classify nations into "important" and "non-important" then you are obviously one of the potential mass murderer and nazis.
Hobu123 1 year ago
@Hobu123 Estonia doesn´t have and never did have 500 000 Russians. And you have proof that the deported were "innocent"? No, cause most of them were NOT. They were mostly murderers and had Nazi connections. I think Estonia might actually in some way be worse after Communism. It is a crime-ridden country with many people homeless living on the streets. Some, the elite, is doing fine and they have no conscience so they don´t take care of the poor people by paying more taxes.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
Yes, of course there is proof, you should stop absorbing the nonsensical Russian propaganda lies and actually do some research. There is more proof than you can study.
Also you are wrong about the numbers. There is about 30% Russians in Estonia.
The crime levels in Estionia are much lower than in Russia and there are no "numerous homeless on streets".
Come visit Estonia and see yourself that what nonsensical Russian propaganda machine tells you is not correct.
Hobu123 1 year ago
We have Russian tourists coming and being surprised when they see that what Russian propaganda told them was far from reality.
Hobu123 1 year ago
@Hobu123 However I think Russians and Estonians should be friends. But Estonians live in this illusion that everything that happened to them is a huge deal when truth is many kinds of atrocities happened to practically all European nations during WW2 etc. Some just make more noise of it than others. Estonians should basically get over it and stop constantly annoying Russians deliberately. Germans are the ones who would´ve exterminated all Estonians, not Russians.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Hobu123 No it´s 25%. Crime levels low in Estonia? What a joke. I live in Finland and the largest foreign criminal group here is Estonians. Stop lying. And the only "proof" of "innocent" Estonians being sent to Siberia is apparently your own words. Thousands of Estonians participated in Nazi atrocities. What happened to them when "innocent" Estonians only were sent to Siberia? Give me a break.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
somehow lot of these estonians in finland have russian names ..
klaabu99 1 year ago
@Adinax86
Let me guess - your main source of info is Bäckman? LMAO
What a nice "logics" you have - if Estonian criminals go to Finland then obviously Estonia has high crime level.
So typical "logic" of propagandist liars.
Hobu123 1 year ago
@Hobu123 I didn´t even know who Bäckman was until Estonians started blabbing about him in YouTube. I have never seen him in Finnish tv. He obviously gets much more attention in Estonia than in Finland. Are you suggesting Estonia has low crime rates perhaps? Just google "Estonian man" and you´ll see that nearly all results are crime news.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
pls explain me how did get nazi criminals to estonia before 22 june 1941 .. .. i was pretty sure that germans came couple month later .... but seems like u know better pls share u knowledge with us
you are right estonia didn't had 500000 russians .. but there was around 500000 who were not estonians
and there is not 140 millions russians in russia .. there is much less than 100 millions russians
klaabu99 1 year ago
@klaabu99 Many of the 10 000 people deported were also not ethnic Estonians. Many were ethnic Germans and hundeds were Jews. And many of that 20% of Estonians who were killed were also ethnic minorities who you had exterminated yourself! So the number is irrelevant. Secondly Germans exterminated over 7000 ethnic Estonians too, that´s not far from the number Russians deported.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Hobu123 In other words, with the high income gap, high crime rates, high AIDS-rate etc. Estonia is a lot like Russia.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
estonia lost because of WW2 around 20% of it's population ... and that is fact
and yes everything what happened is big deal .. to us .. so please shut up and learn history .. skip propaganda
can u tell what significant russia did by that time??
at least for us and most of the world entering EU and some more international organisations is pretty big deal ..
klaabu99 1 year ago
@Adinax86
36000 was killed during the war ..
but in estonia soviet goverment started killing and deportation of civilians before war ..
klaabu99 1 year ago
@klaabu99 "Thus the Soviets specifically targeted anti-Soviet nationalists, supporters and kin of the Forest Brothers, veterans who served in the German military and relatives of those already held in the Soviet Gulag for alleged anti-Soviet activities." "Veterans of German military". Sounds like Nazi connection to me. Estonians were also deported in June 14, a few weeks before Nazi attack to Estonia. Many of them may also have connections to Nazi Army. Not all, but some did.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
officially germany was USSR ally before 22 june 1941 ..
one thing was true they targeted anti-soviet ... most of estonian officers counted as anti-soviets and ppl who fought against russia during independence war were also .. lot of men were executed because of that 1942/43
ummm .. how can there be german military veterans before june 1941??? can u explain it to me???
list of deportation were made in 1940 .... forest brothers were in estonia after war not before..
klaabu99 1 year ago
@klaabu99 The quote was about Operation Priboi, not about those who were deported in June 1944. However those people were deported just a FEW WEEKS, I think it was merely TWO WEEKS before Germans attacked. So yes they could very well have had Nazi connections. They may have helped Germans plan the the attack to Estonia. Or some of them might have. Secondly over 4000 of those 10 000 people returned. I don´t see what the big tragedy here is.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@klaabu99 Much more people, proportionally too, were killed in other 'European nations during WW2 but they don´t complain nearly as much as Estonians. Most Jews today understand that they should not blame modern-day Germans for what their grandfathers and great grandfathers did but I haven´t seen or heard of any Estonian who was as smart about Russians.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
difference is that germany admitted that what happened was bad and should never happen again ... but russia refuse to admit it and say they saved starving ppl .. if they stayed here even more died .. they lied then and they lie now ...
forget about nazi connections .. there was plan how many ppl should be deported and where and by the plan they made lists(it's a fact) ... there was nothing about nazis .. it was all about "anti-soviet element"
klaabu99 1 year ago
@klaabu99 Like I already said, Russia is a country of 140 million people. If they wanted to kill and deport all or most Estonians, they could easily have done it. And if Nazis had won, all Estonians would eventually have been exterminated and deported and you wouldn´t be here blabbing nonsense. So in that sense Estonians should be grateful. Hatred between Russians and Estonians is as ridiculous as hatred between some Swedes and Finns. Russians and Estonians have a lot in common.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
thing is not about hatred but about the fact that it happened, it was bad and it should never happen again .. but instead someone said that collapse of USSR was biggest geopolitical catastrophe ... he is not correct .. USSR was biggest geopolitical catastrophe
klaabu99 1 year ago
@klaabu99 When you look at democraphic rates of Estonia, you´ll see that during Communism the population rate of Estonia was constantly growing. Especially during 60´s and 70´s, the better times of Communism, the population rate of Estonia grew very rapidly and the birth rates were much higher than they are now. After Communism the birth rates of all Eastern European countries are even lower than the birth rates of Western European states and the population is on a constant decrease.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
u are right estonian population grow very fast ... just in few weeks when new colonist arrived(i don't know better word ) ... there was around 1.1 millions estonians in estonia before WW2 and there is a bit less right now .. and estonians had very high birth rates 1990-93 .. and it wasn't better times of communism ... i guess it will go under category after communism(of course we were still part of USSR until 1991)...
klaabu99 1 year ago
@klaabu99 In the better times of Communism Soviet Union was a viable super power. It was known for advanced space program etc. I don´t see such progress in Eastern European and Slavic states today. It´s more like the development in these countries is stalling. It´s very naive to think that Communism was all bad and today is much better. In polls East Germans have said they were happier living in Communist DDR than as part of Germany.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
soviet union was superpower but price was too high ..it would be much better today in estonia without 50 years communism regime in estonia
klaabu99 1 year ago
@klaabu99 Or maybe it would be like it is today, a crime-ridden country and one of the poorest countries in Europe where the elite (to which you probably belong in) is doing fine while most people are more or less poor. If Estonia, still after 50 years or more, is in the state it is in now, everyone should just admit there are other factors that cause it than Communism.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
have u ever been in estonia???0
and who says that estonia is one of the poorest countries in europe???
PS they way u talk about USSR and WW2 i think u are russian .. and some time ago u lived in estonia
klaabu99 1 year ago
@klaabu99 Estonia has one of the lowest GDP´s in Europe. I think some Finnish reporter who lives in Estonia wrote an article about how Estonia has changed from the wealthiest state of Soviet Union to the poorest state of EU. It is quite correct. And no I am not a Russian. I just think Russians and Estonians should be friends like Finns and Swedes should be too. You are part of Estonian elite so you are motivated by desire to preserve your elite status and therefore view Russians as a threat.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
i read that article in estonian .. and reply to him from other finnish journalist .. he didn't live in estonia ... i belive he lived in helsingi ... and estonia is not poorest state of EU .. you should ask russians why they don't want friendship ..
oh and one more thing .. i'm not "elite" .. usual worker .. and i don't see russians as threat .. i see soviets as threat .. btw politically correct would be "ethnical russian" .. actually it's pretty pointless to argue with u... END
klaabu99 1 year ago
@Adinax86 You apparently know absolutely fuck all about Estonia, if you think that the crime rate is high. The crime rate is very low, and the streets of Tallinn are one of the safest in Europe. Estonia is also the richest country in Eastern Europe (not counting Finland, which is technically Northern Europe).
Indeed, in the Eurozone (countries using the EURO as their currency) it is the poorest country, however in the European Union it is not, by a great margin.
galfyproductions 10 months ago
@galfyproductions The richest country in Eastern Europe? There is no such thing as a rich Eastern European country. You mean the least poor out of poor Eastern European trash states?
Adinax86 10 months ago
@galfyproductions As for crime "The crime rate in Estonia is high compared to other industrialized countries.... According to the INTERPOL data, for murder, the rate in 2000 was 13.73 for Estonia, 1.10 for Japan, and 5.51 for USA... For robbery, the rate in 2000 was 335.65 for Estonia, 4.08 for Japan, and 144.92 for USA...For burglary, the rate in 2000 was 1699.95 for Estonia, 233.60 for Japan, and 728.42 for USA."
Adinax86 10 months ago
@Adinax86 and the numbers for russia maybe if you were so kind. Or maybe you should bring up any other former soviet union state maybe
karriim00 9 months ago
@karriim00 Crime rates are high in those countries as well. What was your point, that crime rates in Estonia are on the same level as crime rates of many other former USSR states? I just saw news that crime committed by foreigners in Finland has signficantly increased and that most crimes committed by foreigners are Estonians, Lithuanians and Romanians.
Adinax86 9 months ago
@Adinax86 *committed by Estonians, Lithuanians and Russians
Adinax86 9 months ago
@Adinax86 Shut the fuck up Anti Estonian faggot.
CrysisFear 9 months ago
@Adinax86 the crime rate of Estonia dropped 15% this year.
superkalle3333 7 months ago
@superkalle3333 Estonian criminals must´ve come here then cause the crime rates of Estonians in Finland are on a constant increase. Estonia is getting so poor that there´s nothing to steal anymore so they go abroad.
Adinax86 7 months ago
Funny thing, the eestis loves to compare themselves to Finland but while the people of Finland is known for its fighting spirit, the eestis rather bitch and submitte to their masters.
Except their masters are now broke and will have to auction "estonia" to China or South Korea soon.
Fridaey13txhOktober 7 months ago
@Fridaey13txhOktober They do indeed but in reality they are genetically just like other Baltic people and Russians. Google "Estonians are not like Finns" and you´ll find a link about it. Think about the irony, people who are in essence Slavs demonize Slavs and consider them inferior. So clueless.
Adinax86 7 months ago
@galfyproductions I think the only reason why crime in Estonia has decreased at all is that Estonian criminals go to more lucrative countries like Finland and Estonia to commit crimes. 45% of foreign prisoners in Finland are ethnic Estonians and Russians (25% Estonian citizens and most of the Russian citizens too come from Estonia).
Adinax86 10 months ago
@Adinax86 I belive that all you have written is in fact wrong. I cant even start disputing your illusions . I belive you are of russian heritage and so i recomend that you should be informed of your presidents words that Russia should start a destalinification of the russian society as germany did after 2 world war and apologize for the wrong communism did against the lands and people whom the glowing Soviet Union occupied.
karriim00 9 months ago
@karriim00 Stop blaming Communism and being a stereotypical annoying Estonian. Finland, Sweden and Norway have a social-democratic welfare, healthcare, tax and other socio-economic systems that are based on Socialsm and these countries are among the wealthiest in the World. Estonia is ruled by wealthy elitists who brainwash poor people into believing that Communism is the sole cause for their misery and they can freely rob the poor people when they have to pay the same % of taxes as poor people.
Adinax86 9 months ago
@klaabu99 Latvians and Lithuanians have spoken Fenno-Ugric languages too before. Latvians used to speak Livonian. Latvians and Lithuanians also have 10% more the Uralic haplogroup N1C1 than Estonians. Genetically Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians are very closely related to each other and thus they´re all Batlic people. They were also classified in the same group by Nazis.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
no u are not correct .. latvian and lithuanian are baltic languages, livonian and estonian are fenno.ugric .. The native land of the Livonian people is Livonia, located in Latvia, in the north of the Kurzeme peninsula.
klaabu99 1 year ago
@klaabu99 No you dumb Estonian don´t understand what I said. I said Latvians and Lithuanians have spoken Fenno-Ugric languages in historic times. Livonian is one of those languages. The first people in Latvia and Lithuania spoke a Fenno-Ugric language. Like Estonians they have since mixed extensively with Slavs and therefore are related to Poles and other Slavs.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
so ppl on territory of russia used to speak fenno-ugric language but it does not mean that russians used to speak fenno-ugric language ... and only one who is DUMB here is u... ok thats pointless to argue with moron like u
klaabu99 1 year ago
@klaabu99 Yes Eastern and Northern Russians are Fenno-Ugric and they have much more Fenno-Ugric genes than modern-day Latvians, Lithuanins, Estonians or Finns. Estonians, Finns, Latvians and Lithuanians only have Fenno-Ugric genes in their Y-DNA. 27% of Finns, about 16% of Latvians and Lithuanians and even less Estonians have Fenno-Ugric genes. Fenno-Ugric people belong in Asian race and come from behind Ural mountains in Russia. Most descendants of those people still live in East Russia.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@klaabu99 There is no major difference between Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians. They´re closely related to each other. "The more than 25,000 blood samples collected already make it possible to conduct various background studies. For example, comparing the genetic data of Estonians with other European nations has revealed that Latvians, Lithuanians, Poles and some Russians are genetically much more similar to Estonians than the Finns with whom Estonians share a similar language."
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
Make sure you actually understand anything about genetics before you speak about it.
Hobu123 1 year ago
@Hobu123 Yeah and what exactly was unclear to you about the genetics research results? It says Estonians are closely related to Lithuanians, Latvians, Poles and Russians. Russians, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians are all an intermediate between Slavs and Uralic people. The funny thing is, Estonians think "Uralic" is the same as Nordic and something completely different from Russians. Fact is Uralic people and Uralic language come from EAST RUSSIA.
Adinax86 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Adinax86
Take a quick course in genetics and also read a bit more than just one article. Your interpretations and personal conclusions of the research are a bit off, that is the problem.
Hobu123 1 year ago
@Hobu123 So what would be your interpretations of the research then? It clearly says Latvians, Lithuanians, Poles and some Russians are much more closely related to Estonians and Finns. It was conducted by Tarto University and the sample size is very large. So what you´re saying is Tarto University geneticists are unqualified.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax8 correction more closely related to Estonians than Finns, not and Finns
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
No, I am saying that you are unqualified to understand the details of the research. Your interpretation and conclusions are a bit off.
Hobu123 1 year ago
@Hobu123 AND WHAT WOULD BE YOUR INTERPRETATIONS OF THIS: "The more than 25,000 blood samples collected already make it possible to conduct various background studies. For example, comparing the genetic data of Estonians with other European nations has revealed that Latvians, Lithuanians, Poles and some Russians are genetically much more similar to Estonians than the Finns with whom Estonians share a similar language."?
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Hobu123 I didn´t say you said I am unqualified (I don´t ever ask opinions from Estonians about me). I said you suggest Tarto University geneticists are unqualified since they conducted this research. It is part of the Estonian genetics research.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86 correction; Estonian Genetics Project
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
"what exactly was unclear to you about the genetics research results? It says Estonians are closely related to Lithuanians, Latvians, Poles and Russians. Russians, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians are all an intermediate between Slavs and Uralic people."
where can i find info about this genetic research???
fact is that there was no russia or russian when uralic ppl started to move
klaabu99 1 year ago
@klaabu99 But here you are complaining about 10 000. I wonder how many of these 10 000 had participated in Nazi cruelties and how many had, in fact, themselves killed other Estonians. They weren´t all just innocent Estonians who were deported or executed without any reason.
Adinax86 1 year ago
@Adinax86
u can find uself .. howmany of them were children, how many of them were elder ppl and how many of them were women ... basicly if someone from u family was in german, police etc army all family was deported, if u was businessman under german occupation all u family was deported, if u was german(baltic german) all u family was deported .. etc .. if u was officer in estonian army all u family was deported(like my relatives)
btw about what nazi cruelties are talkin before 22 june 1941
klaabu99 1 year ago
@klaabu99 "The final version of Generalplan Ost, essentially a grand plan for ethnic cleansing, was divided into two parts; the "Small Plan" (Kleine Planung), which covered actions which were to be taken during the war, and the "Big Plan" (Grosse Planung), which covered actions to be undertaken after the war was won, and to be implemented gradually over a period of 25 to 30 years."
Adinax86 1 year ago
@klaabu99 "Percentages of ethnic groups targeted for elimination by Nazi Germany from future settlement areas Ethnic group Percentage subject to removal
Poles 80-85%
Belorusians 75%
Ukrainians 65%
Lithuanians 85%
Latvians 50%
Estonians 50%
Czechs 50%
Latgalians 100%"
Adinax86 1 year ago
Estonia doesent denie Genocide you idiots
CrysisFear 1 year ago
soviet russia = nazi germany = north korea = china ! how many people have suffered and still suffer today because of these stains on humanity ?
3slowhand 1 year ago
Wow this historian is just such a fucking retard, people like this should not be asked over for interviews. Just living his Pro-Communist shit dream.
SUCK A DICK COMMUNIST RUSSIANS!! You shitty regime is done for, and it was the shittiest regime ever- so much death has never been seen on the face of the earth. At least something you excel at - mass murder - now go to a cave and fuck your sister.
gunforsale 1 year ago 34
@gunforsale
he is not historian .. he is more like sci-fi writer ...
klaabu99 1 year ago
The reason your country is a shit hole draining mine of taxpayer money is not because of Russia or communism but because you have a clueless, serf mentality.
Stalin was mistaken, instead of bringing the 20th century to Ostland, he should have emptied Ostland with deportations. = None of you tossers bitching about "genocide of the bad Russians" today.
Fridaey13txhOktober 7 months ago
i like how russia tries to point fingers... meanwhile producing massive propaganda-poop.
thats so comical...
/watch?v=IWLKiLXBGhg
kalx007 1 year ago
nah typical amercian bullshit made up bout russians and the communists!!!
Probot2000X 1 year ago
LMAO @ Nazi butthurts here. Aleksandr Dyukov also utterly debunked your crappy "The Soviet Story" propaganda.
Assholes.
UnKn0wn86 1 year ago
@UnKn0wn86 Oh, I remember. He debunked it by threatening to kill the director of the movie.
helpermethod 1 year ago
more bullshit from Russia today PLEASE PRETTY PLeASE.
toetagjeee 1 year ago
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There were numerous accounts of war crimes by Soviet armed forces—plunder, the murder of civilians, and rape. In both Soviet and current Russian history books on the "Great patriotic war" these war crimes are rarely mentioned.
CrimesAgainstHumanit 1 year ago
Alexander Djukov and historian???? This has to be a joke!!! Trying to justify crimes of soviet regime. In Soviet Union most of intelligent people were executed, because intelligent people were dangerous to Soviet Union. Intelligent people were killed and left were only....like Djukov.
CrimesAgainstHumanit 1 year ago
Estonia is one crappy state.
toqtaqiya 1 year ago
This is just insulting. HOW DARE THEY!???
m3dicated 1 year ago
Wow, it's crazy what a propaganda machine RT is outside of the U.S.A.
We just got RT on cable a couple years ago. It's all really soft content, basically just light Russian news. Nothing crazy like this.
crock703 1 year ago
liars
vj198 1 year ago
Why does Russian media always try to defend soviet crimes????? This historian actually states that Estonia a free country with a democraticly elected government is using Nazi propaganda, what rubbish. The only propaganda comes straight from the Kremlin through RT tv.
ordio1 1 year ago
Free speech and democracy my ass. If you write an article in Russian media, then you have to salute Kreml, or you will be killed.
I am surprised that some journalists in Russia has not been murdered or have “accidentally died” like so many other journalist in Russia have.
arsenal92 1 year ago
@arsenal92 Typical brainwashed rhetoric. You must read a lot of postimees.ee.Say hi to George Bush for me. It's exactly what he want's you to think about Russia.
cyberrate 1 year ago
Soviet partisans: NKVD puppets and stay-behind agents. The ethnic cleansing of entire eastern Estonia is a fact. Russians should not whitewash Soviet history. Nor should USA whitewash their anti-Axis war crimes.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
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@IustitiaPax "The ethnic cleansing of entire eastern Estonia is a fact" let's see you prove this fact with dates, names, locations, please.
cyberrate 1 year ago
that historian actually might not know the truth. There are 2 types of archives in russia 1) what really happend 2) what they thought up. If someones goes to the first archive then tey are charged with treason and get punished, but the second archive is open for everyone.
marko9900 1 year ago
russian media shouldnt be under goverments control
marko9900 1 year ago
Good to see people countering neo Nazis trying to rewrite history.
ErvinAlb1 1 year ago
It is the russians who are rewriting history
And there are no neo nazis in Baltic states
Panadoksis 1 year ago
Fucking russian nerds lies so much about Estonia fucking nerds l2pk yeh L2PK fucking nerd i own u all !
irecatori 1 year ago
It's kind of interesting how this discussion has a 'neutral' character, asking about facts, a 'pro-russian' "historian" , but where is the 'pro-estonian'? This isn't a dialogue, it's a monologue.
veiakas 1 year ago
@veiakas Actually it shouldn't be a 'pro-something' matter, it should be a matter of truth. For example most of Estonians today (thanks to "pro-Estonian" historians like Mart Laar) think that SU killed about 100 000 of them just for being Estonians. While in fact only 22-25 000 people were sent to Siberia (! not to gulags) of whom 18500 returned home in 1959. When Dyukov came to Tallinn last year he challenged Mart Laar to the debate (a form of dialogue) but he didn't show up.
cyberrate 1 year ago
@cyberrate @cyberrate Did you also count in the Russain Bombing of tallin, when 44 bombers levelled like the sentral town, and not any military targets, civilian houses, churches etc.
Also, who is pulling numbers out of their arse? It wasn't 22-2500, it was way more than that. Type Soviet Estonia to wikipedia.
And other sources include my grandparents for example? What are your sources exactly?
veiakas 1 year ago
@veiakas "levelled like the sentral town" - this is exactly what I'm talking about, you sound like a typical victim of russophobia. Think about it, the central of town is ok now, I walk there everyday. So how was it leveled? Also do you realize that the town was occupied by Nazis? Or do you think that pilots deliberately aimed at non military targets? Sources: Go to Estonian embassy in Russia page and switch to English, then go to History and look there. May I ask what are your sources?
cyberrate 1 year ago
@cyberrate You walk there now, yes, but have you seen the video footage taken? You should go to the Kiek in de Kök museum, there is a new exhibition open, undergound tunnels, that have been renovated. There's a good movie about it there. As to being russofobic, true, most Estonians are. But for some reason, most ex-soviet countries are, I wonder why is that? Occupied by nazis indeed, but the rules of international warfare declare, that civilian targets are not to be bombed, e.g. churces.
veiakas 1 year ago
@cyberrate Also, could you put the link here, about the Hisrtory, in the Estonian embassy in Russia, becasue I didn't find the history link there. Where are Your facts coming from?
veiakas 1 year ago
@veiakas Sent you a PM. here is a quote:The largest of these deportations took place 60 years ago this year: on 25 March 1949 more than 20 000 people, mostly women and children, were deported from Estonia.
cyberrate 1 year ago
@cyberrate Quote "The two deportations that affected Estonia the most deeply, on 14 June 1941 and 25 March 1949, are observed as days of mourning. The largest of these deportations took place 60 years ago this year: on 25 March 1949 more than 20 000 people, mostly women and children, were deported from Estonia." You are only talking about one deportation.
veiakas 1 year ago
@veiakas Yes, there was another one on 14 June 1941 but it affected even smaller amount of people. About bombings: The town wasn't "leveled" like you wrote, it's a lie. Only several buildings were destroyed, but then later Tallinn was reconstructed by SU anyway, and you need to keep in mind that Red Army was bombing it's own territory occupied by Nazis.
cyberrate 1 year ago
@cyberrate Several buildings? More like half the Old Town. Did you go to see the exhibition?
veiakas 1 year ago
@veiakas No I didn't. But anyway you wrote "levelled like the sentral town" which is completely misleading. And you know that you can't incriminate it to Russians or SU since it was their own territory occupied by Nazis, and because SU actually restored all the damage.
cyberrate 1 year ago
The Baltics NEVER voted to join the SU. Are you seriously arguing that there was a legitimate vote in the Soviet Union?
No wonder it took an independent Latvia to properly memorialize the Jews murdered in Šķēde and Rumbala. I'd hate to remind you that the Soviet occupiers only allowed a monument to be dedicated to the "Soviet Citizens" murdered there. I'd love to ask Mr. Zuroff if that is considered history rewriting.
montfaucon1916 1 year ago
@montfaucon1916 "The Baltics NEVER voted to join the SU. Are you seriously arguing that there was a legitimate vote in the Soviet Union? " - Yes, it is documented.Can you prove me wrong? With references and witness testimonies? You know it may seem wrong now but at that time is was the only right move. With Hitler advancing everyday and taking country after country, it wasn't a bad idea.
cyberrate 1 year ago
Poznań 1956, Budapest 1956, Prague 1968 and the Martial Law in Poland in 1980 at a minimum are all testiments to Soviet Russian policy. No more explanation needed about Putin's view of the "greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.
To hell with Russian imperialism. Oh by the way, as for the Baltics having bad relations with Russia: do not expect us to thank you for eliminating our leadership and our way of life from 1940-1991!
montfaucon1916 1 year ago
@montfaucon1916 Those were uprisings, first of which has got nothing to do with SU. Uprisings are dealt with brutally sometimes but these are not acts of genocide or crimes against humanity, things like that happen everywhere even in Estonia, even in 2007. That phrase is taken out of the context, the last thing Putin wants it to return to SU. OK can I expect you to thank Russian people for bringing you education, television, health care and TEACHING YOU TO READ/WRITE IN YOUR OWN LANGUAGE?
cyberrate 1 year ago
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montfaucon1916 1 year ago
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They were the result of an evil occupation from an evil empire! Unless you want to justify the Soviet Russian presence in the "Warsaw Pact!"
Yes, I thank those idiots who tried to make us a minority in our own country. I thank them for holding us back for 50 years as the rest of western Europe developed. It may be hard for you to understand, but our economy and standard of living paralleled Belgium in the 1930s. All the Soviet Russians gave us was misery and occupation!
montfaucon1916 1 year ago
Teaching Estonians to read and write :) :) over 98% of Estonians were able to read and write in the end of 1800 (a number Russia still strive to achieve today) As for health- care and general life standard- it never reached the pre- war level during entire soviet occupation :)
Your beloved culture bringers for example shot my grandfathers brother just because he was ridding a bicycle and the well educated -cultural, liberators from Russia had never seen such a thing
kaptenkagu 1 year ago
@kaptenkagu I'm sorry for your relative, but was collaborating with Nazis or helping "forest brothers" to kill people who supported Soviet Union? Would you know this? Estonia joined SU in 1940 so you still can't go around the fact that during Soviet presence in Estonia Estonians got educated in their own language by Soviet Union.
cyberrate 1 year ago
Cyberrate must be an idiot. During deportation in Estonia, communist deported not Nazi and forest brothers supporters but cultural elite and richer people. First deportations took place after occupation of independent Estonia in 1940. There were no Nazi supporters and no forest brothers during that time. Maybe it is the new and "right" history in Russia, where Cyberate gets is information.
roamless 1 year ago
@roamless Most of the people deported in 1949 (the biggest deportation wave) were helping forest brothers, after the deportations the forest brothers activity actually stopped. Anyway people were not deported or shot, like you wrote, just because they were well educated and riding a bicycle. People were deported by Stalin for "anti-soviet" activities which also included collaborating with Nazis and forest brothers.
cyberrate 1 year ago
@cyberrate Deportations began in 1940. The first wave was the bloodiest. "Anti-Soviet" activite was also owning a farm and not joining a collective farm or owning western literature. Deportations were crime against humanity. See also UN resolution about it. And by the way, you are talking about 1949, but why not about deportations in 1940 ?
roamless 1 year ago
@roamless Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to justify Stalin's crimes. But to be fair the deportations is not as bad as you (or UN for that matter) are trying to present it. Have you been to Siberia? Are you aware of the fact that deported people were not put to prison or GULAG or what ever. Do you know how many people got deported? Do you know how many were rehabilitated and actually got back from Siberia? To be continued...
cyberrate 1 year ago
@cyberrate Have you been in Siberia camps yourself you moron??? You brainwashed asshole!
ReVox777 1 year ago
@ReVox777 Have you been in Nazi death camps yourself you moron? You brainwashed asshole!
oxonboy 1 year ago
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@oxonboy What's your point?
ReVox777 1 year ago
@ReVox777 ...oxomoron's point is that he is a rabid anti-fascist, english, protestant, living in London and hates everyone in the Baltics except the russians. He considers all Baltic people to be nazis.
40bcoots 1 year ago
@oxonboy The point is Nazi death camps existed..Siberian camps were just normal prison camps for Nazi war criminals..not the same..no innocent people were killed there.
oxonboy 1 year ago
@oxonboy Deportees were not even sent to camps, mate they were sent to several territories in Siberia but there were no "camp regime", no fence, no barbwire, no barracks and the lot. In another words they were simply relocated. And let me tell you sometimes, I want to relocate to Siberia myself, the fishing there is probably the best in the world.
cyberrate 1 year ago
@cyberrate Ah, thanks for that information. It is good to see more people challenging the pro Nazi viewpoint that seems to be very fashionable in mainland europe at the moment..
I am sure Siberia does have wonderful fishing.
oxonboy 1 year ago
@oxonboy
But do you realize that big part of them died, because they were transported there in trains, which were used to transport animals.
arsenal92 1 year ago
18500 people out of 20-30 000 deported from Estonia were rehabilitated and returned home in 1959. Some people died but it wasn't because of the transportation. Did you expect SU to send limos to deport people in 1940? Trains like that were all they had at that time.
cyberrate 1 year ago
@cyberrate Dude, you are brainwashed. Before ww2 Estonia had statistics of the population, after the red plague we recounted our people and saw how much were lost. Where did they all go then? Did the cookie monster invite them to the planet Zaigon to have a party in top hats? Guess by your logic a large part of our people vanished into thin air. Nigga please.
scrap222666 1 year ago
@cyberrate
Why was it necessary to deport them at all? Didn't they have homes to live in, jobs to perform, families to care for? Or perhaps Stalin had the same thought as when he considered mass deportations for Hungary: "The Hungarian problem is a problem of boxcars."
Learning the wrong lessons from history can be worse than not learning them at all.
jeglpz 1 year ago
@ReVox777 I have been living in Siberia for about 7 years. But that's irrelevant since Estonian deportees were not even sent to camps, they were sent to territories (Irkutsk, Tambov ...) where they were moving freely and continued to live their lives as families. Only condition was that they had to visit the authorities once a month for a check.
cyberrate 1 year ago
@cyberrate .. were given minutes to gather whatever you could, forcibly removed, herded into cattle trucks and shipped out? Or did you make a choice to go there, with a mobile phone? computer? warm clothes, running water etc etc.
Remember that was in the 1940's; not your voluntary 2000's.
rt is nothing but russian crap propoganda.
40bcoots 1 year ago
@roamless I assume by "UN resolution" you mean the Europarliament resolution from April 2, 2009. Mind you UN in not even close to Europarliament. This resolution condemns "crimes against humanity committed by all all totalitarian and authoritarian regimes". Anyway, Estonia joined SU voluntary in 1940 by issuing petition to Soviet government stating the will to join the Union. It was the right decision at that time because at that time Estonia had to face Hitler with SU or face SU with Hitler.
cyberrate 1 year ago
@cyberrate Same is to say, that Danish joined Nazi Germany voluntary. Also Finland tryed to join Soviet Union "voluntary" at that same time but stupid Finnish didn`t understood world voluntary and resisted their liberator:))) If someone has to give up their freedom at gunpoint, only wery narrow minded people can call it voluntary.
roamless 1 year ago
@roamless I understand that you are suggesting that SU had gun to Estonia's head in 1940, if so can you prove it? Because otherwise you are just another victim of modern Baltic brainwashing and russophobia.
cyberrate 1 year ago
@cyberrate Yes I can prove it, all western countrys know it. Only you and some of your russian mates think differently. No one has brainwashed me, I read western historians not Russian propagandists like Dyukov. Some of my relatives are also russian, so how can I be russophobic. Does it make me russophobic that I think differnetly than you?
roamless 1 year ago
I wanted do post Wikipedia link about Estonian real history (according to Western historians), but youtube does not for some reason let me post links. But can you cyberpunk prove, that Estonia was not occupied? And please give me links do some well known and respected western historian and not to some russian state propagandist like Dykov
roamless 1 year ago
@cyberrate Well that's kind of what it was. In a nutshell, we had the option of either agreeing to Russian terms and hoping it wouldn't get that bad, or facing a war. Could you explain what exactly did you want to see proof of? The fact that Estonian people were against joining USSR or that the Estonian leaders were essentially forced to agree to it? Both? ...
hollabooiers 1 year ago