"Culloden" - directed by Peter Watkins - 1 of 3 excerpts

[AlRStewart]

This 'Docu-Drama' was ground breaking for its time in terms of its approach to visual storytelling within TV drama, and I have no idea how it is 'completely swayed in favour of the English'. Peter Watkins not only shows the suffering caused by the English army, but also the beginnings of the the destruction of Highland Clans. It mainly shows how incompetent Prince Charles was at leading them.

It was made mainly as a comment on the Vietnam war that was raging on at the time.

[GILLEBRATH]

Peter Watkins,shows his obvious distain of scottish people in his narrative,the aftermath of Colloden was shamful murder,rape and a disgrace to the English ,revege and hate still reverberates in this portrayal by Watkins.Badmouthing these brave Scottish Highlanders is in bad taste

[USAsoldier1955]

Weren't there any Anti-Jacobite Scots with the British Regulars?

[rofflemows2]

i REALLY love this film...it was ahead of its time! parts like 2:06, for example..."interviewing" the Jacobites, it reminds me of "Battlefield Britain" (also an awesome show). this "journalistic" approach is very cool and adds a bit of realism...

[japanesehighlander]

I first watched this film when I was 8 back in 1981. After watching this, war and soldiers was no long glorifing for me. I can never forget the scence where the boy can't stop screaming because he's so scared.

[mcwolfus]

@japanesehighlander Thats funny, because I remember the exact same clip in th 70s. I alway remember the screaming boy, I must been very young because thought it was actual footage! But I thought thought boy was shot.

[welleslywon1]

It is true that many Americans are ignorant of British (and American history), but it's through popular culture and movies like Braveheart. The same can be said of Brits too, I was in the British museum in the section of Native Americans and somebody who worked there tried to explain that the Onondaga were from Texas and that they were all dead! One, they are from Upstate NY about 10 min.from where I live and they are not dead! But who would know that with popular culture holding sway over us?

[ancalites]

I wish more documentaries would be made in this style. It would great to see one for some medieval campaign.

[TheRealCosmo84]

I think the whole "this is the Highland system" thing is a bit historically ignorant. The clan system was less feudal and more based on kinship than this programme suggests. Propaganda much?

[Kelly14UK]

Right, so I take it that Charles was the son of James the Second? Mystery solved...

[prinznevsky]

@Kelly14UK he was James' grandson. His father was James Edward Stuart ,"The Old Pretender" who tried to invade with French troops in the 1700's.

[thopterpilot]

lol this is an english View only and as usual a long way from the muderous truth of the battle. The english and scots lowlanders. came together to fight the jacobite army and then later murder 30.000 innocent Scots women women and Children. My kin amoung them. My hatred of the westminster and the british who support them wull never die.

[bugsbunny2022]

In my mind all the Stewarts/Stuarts were fucking scum. From James IV marrying Margaret Tudor in 1503 that lead directly to the Union of Crowns exactly 100 years later in 1603 by that club footed, filthy fucking pederast King James VI, to both Charlies to that fat whore Queen Anne who started and later signed the Act of Union, 1st May 1707 to Charlie boy shooting himself in the foot at Culloden. When Cromwell cut off Charles I's head in 1649 we should have declared an end to the 1603 Union too.

[Japanorama]

ta fer the upload m8

[swollower]

Did the Scots invade two or three times.I know that they got nearly as far as Derby once. From what I have read if they had fought together instead of against each other they may of changed history!

[StonehavenFan]

@swollower See Wikipedia article on The Jacobite Rebellions

[ma049]

@swollower "From what I have read if they had fought together instead of against each other they may of changed history!"

You perhaps underestimate the enmity between Catholic/pro-Stuart Scots and Presbyterian Scots. There was never any chance of them fighting together as their aims were utterly incompatible. The Jacobite's wished to restore the Stuarts to the throne, the Scots Government troops wished to stop them.

[gaconnochie]

@ma049 "You perhaps underestimate the enmity between Catholic/pro-Stuart Scots and Presbyterian Scots" You can't divide it into Catholic v Protestant as far as Scotland goes. There weren't enough Catholics in Scotland to be a real threat themselves. In the Jacobite Rebellions there were Catholics out the bulk of the Scottish Jacobites were Protestants. They were non-juring Episcopalians - that is Scottish Anglicans who refused to accept the Presbyterian settlement in Scotland. They supported

[gaconnochie]

@ma049 supported the Pretender despite of his religion - not because of it.

[consolamentum]

Do these excerpts make up the full documentary? I've been meaning to see it for a while but it's really difficult to come by.

[StonehavenFan]

@consolamentum Not remotely. It was 75 minutes

[WellHiFoLLLks]

@StonehavenFan I just watched this in its entirety in my Military History course. It was really hard to watch at times. I kept begging Prince Charles to get his men the hell out of there!

[ZeitgeistWI]

That is why there are such large numbers of people abroad who claim Scottish ancestry. The Highlanders didn't leave their homes because they wanted to, they had to in order to survive. To stay would have meant subjugation and loss of their right to live as they saw fit. It took courage to leave all you knew to go to a place half a world away of which you knew very little. It was Highlanders and men from Ireland who forged America and settled Canada and their contributions helped forge nations.

[ZeitgeistWI]

As to the comment about the Americans cleansing the "Red Indians", yet another brutal example of how weaker cultures are often absorbed at the point of a sword. A law of human kind I suppose, the weaker are often overcome by the stronger. No less than the British quest for empire or other nations of Europe or the world. With a difference in the American question. While the native Americans were settled on reservations, the Highland Scots were driven out not by choice but by survival.

[ZeitgeistWI]

If there is one thing of which we can all be certain, man's inhumanity to his fellow man has been and is one of the most tragic of human traits. Culloden was as much a civil war as anything. A chance for rivals to gain retribution for old quarrels, the English to remove a burr from their saddles and the pacification of a people who desired to live free. You can argue right or wrong but what it basically comes down to is the natural yearning of all men to live free and the petty squabbles of men.

[mrleedra]

Glad to see that Murray gets his due in this film.

[76595313PE]

The new visitor centre at Culloden is very nicely designed, and really improves the experience of visiting the battlefield. It is a lovely setting, and quite moving. If you are able, visit, experience, and remember the brave men who charged the steadiest infantry in Europe, and fell with their faces to the foe in support of an already-lost cause.

[an82ant]

people who cannot dispassionately contemplate history without bringing in modern ethnic divisions and idiotically making idealogical stands while knowing little of the historical facts and situations, should not watch films such as these..it's fineness and brilliance are lost on them and they can but stupidly argue about who was 'right' and which side was 'better'...far better for them to watch crap like modern sensationalised 'recreations' on dumb american tv channels.

[bigboaby555]

a typical version of the BRITISH Broadcasting Centre making a programme about Scottish history that is completely swayed in favour of the British.

[StonehavenFan]

@bigboaby555

I think you mean in favour of the English...

[bigboaby555]

@StonehavenFan Scotland was part of the united kingdom at this point so technically it was British government troops the jacobites were fighting. but aye English/British

[igasman64]

@StonehavenFan no the goverment

[TheDrummerboi94]

@StonehavenFan No British, Scot's are NOT Brit's, learn your history the modern "Brits" are made up of the Anglo saxon's and Normans, NOT the true inhabitants of this island, including the Brythonic tribes, the Kernoic, Scots, Irish, Welsh, Picts, Wodes etc, only immigrants of this country would be proud of calling themselves British, true inhabitants would rather die in recognition of their original race !

[ejr161]

@bigboaby555 i think they're doing that ironically - shows how the english thought upon the jacobites, although you can clearly see the plight of the average man and the horror they faced throughout the film. I think you're taking your anti English cynicism a little too far.

[JUK1980]

@bigboaby555 Actually this programme is highly critical of the English (and of parts of the Scottish leadership). If you watch the whole film, you will find that Peter Watkins is quite detailed in his portrayal of English cruelty against Scottish dissenters in the aftermath of the battle.

[rakuguren]

@bigboaby555

... What? Have you seen this movie, the English are portrayed as raping mass murderers (which in this case was certainly true).

[JediMasterCheryl]

In my opinion as a Scottish historian, it's just too bad that the Highlanders were too gentlemanly to engage the hated English (and their own traitorous brethren) in guerilla warfare.

It took most of them less than 40 years to learn that lesson across the sea and defeat those 'bastards' in what we like to call the War for Independence.

Furthermore, too bad Charles Edward didn't listen to Lord George Murray - my thesis topic's son - who was there for Scottish independence not English wealth.

[willobi]

bonnie prince charlie your a fat wop poof.

[xmenzies4lifex]

yeah the film is kind of realistic, and to everyone saying there was more scots in the english army than english is half true, im a scot myself and my clan is Clan MacDonald of Clan Ranald and ive looked at my family history and we fought against the Campbells who joined the english because of debts... So yes there was scots on the english side but forced to be there and the money hungry ones!! but it was a tragic loss none the less!

[johnson1095]

This woulda been REALLY REALLY COOL if they actually had film back then... or even during 1776!

[TheMightOfTheEnglish]

ps my grandfather was a scot , so ive scots blood myself ,and proud of it to

[JediMasterCheryl]

The Act of Union was a betrayal.

Thesis work deals with this in part...

[TheMightOfTheEnglish]

@JediMasterCheryl , why was it,, lowland scots had no time for highlanders , most of whom were catholic, the jacobite army invaded england , plus at culloden had french troops with them,, most of the so called english army at culloden were actually scots ,betrayal, together with scotland wales and ireland became the greatest empire ever, scotland benefitted greatly , through its union with england , bit late in the day whining about it now ,

[BeantownJim]

good stuff ty

[swollower]

there were more scots than english in the english army! the had a belgian(I think ) commander and a german (drunken) general. the english were in the minority on this one.The lowland scots wanted the highland scots stopped at any cost!. So dont talk about racism.

[ephabouyed]

This is fasicatating, anybody know where you can watch the whole documentary?

[greymalkinfilms]

@ephabouyed

it´s tricky to get hold of, but there is a french dvd (with original english soundtrack) which even has "the war game" on it. in britain i´ve no idea, and the bbc has shown it no more than twice (as far as i know) since it was released in the 60s. no idea why - politics? who knows?

[BillDFC]

Culloden was the end of a way of life,the end of Gaelic culture and the clan system.

it was a battle that could only have one outcome......

[adds3566]

Did any Jacobite officers die at cullode?

[Julescoolnz]

@adds3566 most of them.....the few that didn't were hanged.

[alexp9999]

i'm American, and the names of places like Culloden inspire awe in my "colonial" heart >.> genocide, hatred, ethnic cleansing, massacre, colonizing, etc, are wrong regardless of victims' race, religion, or heritage.

peace between europe and north america if between nobody else...for the love of all that's still good, let's not start fighting europe again on top of everything else that's already happened O.o

[avatarNbraveheart]

England should let Scotland have independence they take half of Scotlands money as well fucking thieving bastards!!

[tfiofoh]

more scots fought in the british army (this was not scot v eng} than in the rebel army

[ClachBhalg]

Sad time for Britain. You could say that if any good eventually came out of this conflict it was the best army in the world. Together, the jocks, Welsh and us English have been the best - no question.

[bbMusket]

Thanks for putting this up. It was very interesting.

[ephabouyed]

I think Billy Connolly said it best, this was more like a Scottish Civil War than an Anglo-Scots conflict.

[kezzar666]

Clearly the point of Watkins film has been missed here. If you watch the entire thing Watkins shows the English hunting down the fleeing Scots as well as killing civilians. Watkins is trying ot show how the poor organisation of Bonnie Prince Charles lead to the defeat of the rebels ans show how the English massacred the rebels. Watch the entire programme do some research and you may get the point!

[BDK421]

Completely wrong, on every conceivable level. Sort of like Gordon Brown, and the East Anglia U scam!

[collinchris]

history wont be your thing then..

[CosmosLoyal]

Seriously what is the major malfunction of some people? THIS WAS NOT A FUCKING BATTLE BETWEEN ENGLAND AND SCOTLAND!! This was a British civil war; there were English Jacobites and Scottish troops on the side of the Government. Indeed there was more Scots fighting in the British Army rather than for the Jacobites. Some of the worst atrocities after the battle were committed by Scots on other Scots which shocked the English and foreign troops.

[collinchris]

the scots were forced to fight against the scots by there english oppressors,they would lose far more if they didnt.Family,land and nobility!greed provailed more than pride.

[gert83]

Rubbish. Scotland retained a medieval feudal system well into the 18th century, and the loyalty of individual clans did not divide itself according to nationality.

There were many gaelic speaking, probably catholic clansmen fighting for the government both at Culloden and in the lengthy Guerilla conflict leading up to it.

[heneagedundas]

Right, hate the Scots. I'll remember to snub my Scottish friends next time I meet them then, thanks for the memo.

[hessianbob]

make sure you snub your friends only mate!!!

[SteveKaczynski]

Lally's, Dillon's and Rooth's were the Irish picquets present.

[SimonDolan]

Great film - nowadays it would be a trashy action shit film starring Bruce Willis snogging someone at the end.

[JAKWIK]

AYE SHITE CLANN ROTHRIGH

[thestrongtiger82]

Bonnie Prince Charlie should've stayed in Scotland when he took Edinburgh and should've either waited for actual French support or wage a defensive border campaign against the British until they were willing to negotiate.

[BillDFC]

He should have stayed in Rome.

[stevenstreets3]

He should have stayed hooked up with Lady McDonald ah lady McDonald was enough conquest for the day

[mvonwahlde]

I can't agree with you. The bonny fool wasted many Scots and caused the utter destruction of Highland culture.

The British had guns. They would always have smashed the rebels.

Without the '45, maybe the British wouldn't have unleashed their evil holocaust. Maybe . . .

[TheMozy2009]

which evil holocaust, gassing the jews in ww2? That was the Nazis btw. Not Britain.

[locheelad2]

right from start, bullshit, an advance guard of the English ? Their were more Scots fighting against the Jacobites, than for them, and NO British regiment ever wore Colours for this slaughter, this doc. should have told the whole story from the landing with no French, thru General John Cope's defeat in 15 minutes, etc., till Culloden.

[logan1776]

ALBA GO BRAIGH

[ianmcvey1]

My family the McVeys were at the battle, who came from Ireland and fought for the Jacobite cause...The legacy is still with my family to this day ...They were with the Irish Piquets a French attatchment of Charlies army , i suppose we were the lucky ones, who returned back to Co Tyrone, a luxuary the poor Highlander never received. My Point is that Bonnie Cherie, his only intrest was London , not Scotland, Ireland or the Shires but the power he would have had if he became the British Monarch?.

[LutzDerLurch]

I'd say yes. Also, in my oppinion, most if not all great "causes" have been those of a few rich or powerfull people, who wanted to get even richer, even more powerful, or didnt want to loose anything. And for that purpose they misused the common people, which then died for them by the thousands.

[kingarfur123]

Do you know which of the Irish Piquets regiments they were in?

[BonnieBlueFlag1314]

This was really quite ahead of its time

[fatmaccam]

probably one of the most memorable history documentaries ever made.

[SteveKaczynski]

I wonder if the Young Pretender had such a strong French accent. With a Polish mother and an early upbringing in France, it is unlikely he had a Scottish one.

[SteveKaczynski]

Oddly enough, quite a few exiled Jacobite supporters were Loyalists during the American War of Independence.

[lightsinthebay]

Would it be that odd - the American Rebels were a step further on from the Glorious Revolution.

[fatmaccam]

i can´t think of another historical battle that gets the emotions stirred quite like culloden.

the boyne, perhaps.

[nighthawk006]

Haven't seen this for many decades. Thanks so much for the uploads! *****

[rmcnabb]

This is outstanding. I wish more Americans of Scottish descent would watch this. I say that as an American of Scottish descent, whose forebears stood with the Prince that day. (We picked the wrong side at Bannockburn, too.) The result was that we got our asses kicked out to the colonies, where I suppose we got our revenge on the British.

History is so intoxicating. In the words of William Faulkner, "The past isn't dead - it isn't even past."

[crematio]

Hitmann is absolutely right, the Hannoverian courts of 1746/47 set many free who claimed being forced in the Jacobite army. And nobody would accuse these courts of any mildness. Of ca. 1.265.000 Million Scots at best 3% actually took arms for Charlie and only 1% served in his army at Culloden or 1745 in England. Another 3% fought for the House of Hannover. That was not the national Scottish rising, that many think of today. Charlie wished to be prince of all Britain, not Scotland alone.

[shoegalsho]

Typical of the era! An, English narrator. This really angers me. I'm a huge Rugby fan and it's the same for the commentary for the matches. When I lived in Northern Ireland we could switch to BBC NI for Irish commentary for the matches. Imagine if they had to listen to the Nazi point of view from a German on the Dam busters story! We would never hear the end of it!

[thejohnfleming]

I think the narrator is actually Watkins himself.

[soldierme36]

birtish fags you demoralize scots and irish charlie was more than that. because we all stood for more you demonize us all im and american but my father is a scot so my heart bleeds scot as well. Per Mare Per Terra.

[LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH]

How unusal, an ignornat American mouthing off about things he knows nothing about. You stupid oaf! The Government forces contained many Lowland Scots AND Highlanders who refused to join the Rebellion. The Lowland Scots were largely responsible for the savage treatment of the Highlanders post Culloden. Your ignorance is embarassing, alleviate i by Reading "Culloden," by John Prebble. By the way, perhaps you would like to tell Brits all about how the US ethnically cleansed the Red Indians??! lol

[JUK1980]

@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH No need to be rude.

[Kelly14UK]

@JUK1980 I pardon you.

[DrinkToIreland]

@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH aye we campbells helped duke of cumberland win the war. BUT we did not assist in the murder, rape, and pillage that the english soldiers did partake in. A wounded jacobite was ordered to be executed by cumberland to a campbell leutenant (sorry bout the spelling) and he refused and said he would rather be hanged. So Cumberland got a english private to do it

[rofflemows2]

@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH you're right dude, genocide, ethnic cleansing, and colonizing aren't merely white european offenses...they happen all over the world...the Scots were just another "tribal" people put to the sword by Imperialists....and of course they had Scottish folks aiding them O.o

[soldierme36]

are you fucking serious????

[LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH]

There is nothing more predictable, or tedious than a dumbass ignorant Yank spouting off drivel about things he knows absolutely NOTHING about. Look to your own country before you critise other nations eg Tell us all about the ethnic cleansing of the native Red Indians by the US army. Tell us about how you lot forced them off THEIR lands & stuck them in government run reservations. What a hoot for you to critise the English in anyway shape or form. Fack orf you half-wit colonial!

[ChiefOren]

@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH English or American, they both did what they did. By the way, I am not only Cherokee, but am decendent, Father to son, to the Baron DeFoth of Scotland, 1100. Turns out that around 1650, 2 of 3 sons that came to America got into trouble with the law, and fled to Georgia, and married into the Cherokee Tribe. From then on, my family are Cherokee.

[soldierme36]

this is complete bullshit.....

[spinoza1111]

Much, much better than a bunch of fat, stupid clownish "re-enactors" glorifying war!

[jaldorian]

first time i watched this was at history class our teacher was a mcGregor and so am i but i remember the class was silent after the film very moving to see culloden and the cairns were the clans fell

[christof139]

I too remember seeing this in the mid 1960's. I also thought it a good documentary and that Bonnie Price Charlie was 1/2 Polish as am I. The Prince should have recruited some Poles, especially some cavalry.

[K13zer]

Alistair MacWHAT ?

[sludgefingers]

I too saw this is as a kid. It really stayed with me. Not your average battle depiction at all. I've been to the battle site and it's really well interpreted by the curating staff. Recommend it.

[woodbinedrinker]

I saw this when I was a kid, and it has stayed with me since, an awesome, stark and powerful film.

[vicealigator]

Charles - half Polish, a grandson of John III Sobieski, who crushed the Turks at Battle of Vienna 1683

[wkm1605]

OK. "The Prince should have recruited some Prussians, especially some Seydlitz cavalry."

I read Diana Gabaldon's novel - Impressing, but pre-occupying

[catblanket14uk]

you see! once again we scots are at the forefront of everything! clearly we invented the movie camera too.

[Sendzikas1963]

April 1996 - I was there

[ILUV74]

The jacobites dont get much credit for what they done ,brave men led by A man who didnt understand the people of the Highlands, who just used them for his own adventure.He escaped while A nation of highlanders suffered for years after

[nacho1560]

I think the author emphasises the fact that in his view the clansmen were no more than human rent.

The clan system was in fact a very advanced society, well suited to life in the highlands.

The chief at the top, the cottar at the bottom. Yes, but from the highest to the lowest they would die for each other for the honour of the clan and with pride.

Folks should study the clan system before mouthing off falsehoods.

[nacho1560]

When they talk about the ruthless clan system and "human rent" they do it a great injustice.

True, there was a hierarchical system, as there is in society today, but it was accepted then that the clansmen fought for his kinsmen and chief. It was not slavery, it was done out of pride and honour.

It was only when the clan system was destroyed after Culloden it all fell apart and sheep replaced men and the hills are still very much deserted where once there were people.

We can learn from it.

[OllieGarkey]

This is really racist.

Just pointing that out.

[StonehavenFan]

Racist against whom?

[OllieGarkey]

Against the Scots.

It says that the folks who showed up at Culloden showed up because they were Rent, and forced to. What about MacLeod of Arran? They were told by their chief NOT to show up at Drumossie, and they did anyway out of a desire to restore what they saw as a lawful succession.

The story is the same with hundreds of other groups and clans.

And that isn't even the clan system! It wasn't rent and feudal oaths! It was leadership by example, and it was usually democratic!

[StonehavenFan]

What you are saying is that it is factually incorrect.

Racism is "the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."

It may or may not be factually correct, but getting facts wrong about what specific people did on a specific occasion in specific circumstances is not racism (especially when there were Scots in both the opposing armies).

[collinchris]

@StonehavenFan REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE­ALLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY????!!­!



[TurkuBentu]

How can an Englishman be racist against a Scotsman when they are from the same caucasian race?

I'm Scottish by the way.

[katmur77]

English and many Lowland Scots were racist against the Highlanders as they were considered Celts, and branded an 'inferior race'. Caucasian is a term taken up in the USA instead of white because all non-English speakers used to be classified as non-white in America.

[hitmann2300]

You are so wrong!! It wasnt about "Race" but about religion, loyalties, and a clash of societies. The Highlands were still very feudal, very agricultural while the Lowlands were in the grips of the beginning of the industrial revolution, cultural, and education were all blossoming. Not all Highlanders supported Charlie, and not all Lowlanders supported the Government. For Scotland, this became a civil war

[hitmann2300]

You are wrong, there were many Highlanders who were forced to go!, Just as there weree many who were more then willing to go, many were not.

To see the truth in the above, you only have to look at the numbers, Charlie could barely raise 6,000 men.

The Clan system wasnt always like what you see in Rob Roy, where a chieftain cares for his people. And the Clan of today, is nothing like it was back then, I may have a chieftain, but I dont have to do his bidding any longer if I dont want to.

[mrleedra]

@OllieGarkey I don't think the film misrepresents the Man-rent system. All tenants who appeared on the field of battle were indeed paying their rent, even if they fought willingly. Furthermore, we know very well that some Highlanders were forced by their chiefs' taxmen to take up arms, and I don't think you can blame the film for mentioning this, especially since of the three men called "rent" in the film, only one is said to have been coerced.

[TurkuBentu]

BTW, the Highlands of Scotland was, I believe, the last truly feudal domain in Western Europe. That's how feudalism worked - you swore unyielding alliegance to the chief/ lord/ baron in exchange for land and protection from invaders.

[JimmyTheKirkie]

All I know is that we lost.

[computers734]

very old and english view of the battle.A few of the facts were wrong. Keppoch says he fights for Charlie because the act of union was a betrayel. This is wrong as Charlie was pro union.

[katmur77]

He was only pro-union as far as the monarchy was concerned, kings rarely give up the right to a crown. The Act of Union of the parliaments was to be disbanded, that's what he's referring to. Many Jacobite swords were inscribed "Prosperity to Scotland, No to the Union". One has recently been given to Derby by the wife of the former First Minister of Scotland.

[warwolf4215]

What a pleasure to see such a rare documentary. So raw yet fresh for its time. Thank you for posting this.

[THEGRIMMCREEPER]

My fav movie of all time!

Thanks for this!

GRIMM