Pro Vs Amateur

[ZadorBador]

they all look like pedo´s

[bestpokercoach]

Well that wasn't so bad

[WhereMyVidz]

yeah no way you shove the flop out of pos. check it and when TJ bets, fold considering he 3 bet you and you literally flopped nothing. i mean if he 3 bet you light and is bluffing o well. if you think your ahead pre or he has a small pp and wont call all in with it then JAM.

[BMthe12th]

agree with most of the comments here. Insta-call on the flop given his call pre-flop, but i think the call preflop with J-9 is bad. If TJ is characteristically donking off with nothing, he can wait for a better spot, and if TJ is playing tight as a rats ass, he could easily be crushed.

[whatever0one]

Funny how Phil says that there is no way he should call with J9s here. Maybe the guy was putting TJ on two high cards and planned to take it away on the flop if no high cards came and it was checked to him since TJ was short stacked. As it happens he made a hand on the flop. If it was Phil Ivey doing this then everyone would say he was a genius. People just didn't play that way commonly back when this hand happened.

Of course, in the long run this guy ends up losing famously to Scotty, heh.

[FortyOzSwilla]

no one is questioning the shove with KQ off on the flop??

[EdDy4RheelZ]

@FortyOzSwilla Nobody is questioning his shove with KQ off on the flop since it's called BLUFFING.

[FortyOzSwilla]

@EdDy4RheelZ fully aware of that

[dh144498]

1:30 lol.

[kohoutcz]

1:31 lol 

[MrFFranco]

i wonder why people say things like "he shouldn't call". you decide what to do with your cards. end of jibber jabber.

[oldtraffordnike]

woow phil is so gay

[Incubated81]

poor tj

[taito79]

he had to take a dump heads up. It might be related to this hand

[NordicBlood84]

Phil its gambling no matter how much strategy you put in it, luck sometimes matter.

[gix500]

in the start it says over 12 million total prize money and thats for the whole wsop

then 8 years later the main event alone had a first prize of 12 millions, and 82 millions in that tourneys prizepool

[julesickdrums]

J7, what a lucky idiot, connection gap it's too long and the only value it's that it's suited, he knew TJ had AK, KQ something in that range and hoped only to outflop him, maybe a nice move but still too risky

[VinzorBE]

@julesickdrums what are you saying he had J9 and a flush draw, were u high when u posted this sir? and if he put him on overs the flop call was good enough, he had good odds even against a pair or maybe even overs wich is unlikiley tho.

[artysm7]

@julesickdrums J9 you fuckin moron. open your eyese squinty bastard.

[Ch3nGy]

it's old school Scotty Nguyen baby

[Arstim]

Phil still sounds like the same douche, even 20 years ago.

[popeye135]

@Arstim stfu idiot, Phil was ok this time, stop making stupid comment on him

[redbeardo0o]

i love the question he asked hellmuth about seeing through people and having an edge on them in life, i wis phil had got a chance to answer!!

[redbeardo0o]

TJ has got so close so many times

[tedwilli9]

more interesting was Hellmuth's prediction that poker was going to ignite the way it did

[martysparty2042]

J-9 suited is my favorite hand. He should have gone all in before the flop

[winwinsituationful]

50$ Free Poker Cash! Just visit:

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[noooooooooam]

Wired

[stgeorgesafc]

This shows u how people like helmuth mad there money back then and cant win anything these days!

[popeye135]

@stgeorgesafc cant win anything these days?? r u fucking kidding me? Hellmuth's best years came after 2003 winning an average of 1 million dollars in tournament earnings, so wtf are u talking about.

[Tnias13]

How didn't he see TJ trying to shake his hand right next to him when he won the pot? Must have blacked out with his eyes open..strange.

[chattyw87]

the call wasnt so bad, he had 35% to make flush, and 24% to make a whole pair... also going all in with king high isnt exactly a good play, i mean it would b if u can make the other fold which he didnt.

[patg316]

I think people are more troubled by the pre-flop call, but three handed, J-9 suited has a lot of connecting possibilities. At a deeper table, I'd muck after a big re-raise, but 3 handed, I think I'd call also. I don't fault Kevin's decision.

[24magiccarrot]

350 players to start with, thats how many players go out in the first 20 minutes at the world series these days lol.

[Starrynova]

i think it's doyle and hellmuth commentating

[Reddivino]

@Starrynova i think its mike sexton

[nilshenrik11]

Sounds more like Hellmuth and Mike Sexton.

[patg316]

It's Vince Van Patten and Phil Hellmuth!

[nilshenrik11]

It's Van Patten, Hellmuth and Sexton. The three of them.

[patg316]

I stand corrected.....Sexton is also there........so, there are 3 announcers there.

[crazyfoolo117]

The ONLY reason i could see kevin called... is because his chip stack was huge... but thats it...

[evh5150316]

0:03 Look at Hellmuth's face!!!  HAHAHA

Looks like he should be part of Ron Burgundy's news team.

[keilan303]

Hate TJ's play here, especially against an amateur...fold or all in....no other way....

[EdDy4RheelZ]

Yeah. He played his King Queen horribly. His post-flop skills were crap. If he was gonna play horribly like this, he was better off either all-ining pre-flop or fold. Best thing was to all-in instead of reraising. He invites a call for Kevin to see the flop and then he pushes all-in with two overcards. He pushed hoping for Kevin to fold, and then later, after he loses, he says "i had the best hand" when in fact, Kevin had better hand.

[michigrind23]

yeah this is 98, the year scotty ngyuen won the tournament :)

[bandet888]

He was going for the flush I guess.

[drewster85]

calls with j high. he doesn't even know the hand is over after the riv

[EdDy4RheelZ]

He didn't call with "jack high". He called over a flush draw that turned out that he had overcards also for his outs, which made him favorite actually. On the flop, he had to call, with those odds he's getting. Hellmuth is berating and criticizing McBride over his pre-flop call.

[jparkfosho]

flush draw is jack high. draw means it's not made hand yet, it's nothing but jack high until jack gets there

[EdDy4RheelZ]

If you're talking about what the hand is worth, then yes, it's just Jack high. But rather than focusing on the hand, focus on the decision he was faced with before making that call. He didn't call with Jack high thinking "my jack high is good" or "i'm gonna suck out by hitting my jack". He calls with a mind of "I have a flush draw + possible two overcards." Do you think same situation would occur if it was offsuit or any other suited jack high? No. Therefore, he called over a flush draw.

[Ontbonden]

Js9s got 56% chance of winning on the flop.

[markoest112]

j9 sucks, maybe i cal the little blind even if its both S

[x0jam]

I like the way the flop is repeated by voice twice, in reverse order.

[l0v3nul]

why exactly pro vs amatuer?...cant really understand the title nothing special

[Amaru19]

this hand is not a big deal. Questionable but not ridiculous call preflop, standard call post-flop, McBride has more than enough chips to make this call easy. Plus he is going to be the favourite if Cloutier missed, which he did.

*shrug*

[EdDy4RheelZ]

Some people here are questioning Kevin's flop call. On the flop, Kevin had to call. The questionable part was pre-flop call because in general, J9suited is not a good hand against very tight player but it was short-handed. So it was standard. Not a good hand to call pre-flop reraise with but since it's short-handed, it's standard and his chipstack allows him to do that.

[Ayoudell]

Good comment - Kevin Mcbride played this hand fine. He gambled a little on the call but connected with the flop and had to play for all T.J.'s chips. I'm all for aggressive play, but what did T.J. think Kevin called his big reraise with? I'd be worried that Kevin's hand would be strong enough to call that shove if I didn't pair my K or Q on the flop anyway...

[crazyfoolo117]

.... he put him on what he had.. "nothing" lol but Kevin still called like a jackass.

[sneak108]

@EdDy4RheelZ hes never folding that once they get to flop..

[WannaBeBalla1]

@EdDy4RheelZ Phil hates j 9 more than any other hand...

[EdDy4RheelZ]

@WannaBeBalla1 Doesn't he hate any hand that's not part of his top 10 starting hands?

[WannaBeBalla1]

@EdDy4RheelZ yes lol unless he plays it when hes steaming then its as good as gold...but only when HE plays them. Nobody else is smart enough to know how to play majority hands you see. He is the greatest Poker Player to ever live.

[WannaBeBalla1]

@EdDy4RheelZ but this isnt the first video on Youtube where J 9 has set Phil off...Daniel got him pretty angry and they are friends when Daniel hit the straight with j 9 and Phil paid him off.

[Nick410s]

@EdDy4RheelZ Wasn't there a reraise before the flop? Not sure calling a reraise is a good idea in that spot...you are behind any hand with an A, K, Q, etc....

[DanielJLynn]

@EdDy4RheelZ i love how EVERYONE on here things they are the dogs bollocks :) your shit at poker get over yourself.

[EdDy4RheelZ]

@DanielJLynn Actually genius, i never berated any of them. People here are criticizing Kevin and calling him a donk for playing J9s and calling on the flop with awesome equity when in fact, this is the final table of the tournament and both players know lot better than any of us on this page will ever know.

[raisydaisy01]

sure call ...

[djjoelz]

the idiot barely knew he won....tj had to tap him to shake hands...what a maroon! btw...very solid play by tj reraising and shipping it bye byes with kq off...

[Mr81points]

lol cloutier says "i had the best hand" but actually the amateur had the better hand. he culd hit a J 9 or a spade, which is a favorite over cloutier's overcards.

[arlpoon]

is that phil helmuth commentating?

[Tristanaf]

yer

[billjesusgates]

please do not smoke. thank you.

[Remienok]

he is not an amateur he was at the wsop main event 2 times in heads-up omg

[newcastle888]

1:30 REJECTED!!!!!!!!....serious pokerface

[PunaniLicker69]

look at these fuckin internet nerds.... this is fucking poker back in the day, they could care less about fucking EV...

[fd9w4dncm]

What's EV?

[EdDy4RheelZ]

Expected Value

[fd9w4dncm]

Thanks, but do you mean by that? P:

[treebagz]

hahahaha old mannn got caught bluffing ..good job

[Yamakashi1]

lol.. not really

[freemind321]

yeah its funny how everyone back then was saying TJ had the best hand when he was 1.27 to 1 to win when he went all in . Roughly 12% behind Kevin on the flop. Pretty nice bet by TJ but as far as strategic moves go , it was more like a hard core bluff. I wouldnt even call it a semibluff as he had no information on Kevin other than he called a big raise... which is even less reason to go all in with only 3 people playing. TJ is a legend, but this was a bad play in my humble poker opinion.

[EdDy4RheelZ]

And Hellmuth sure acts arrogant just because he won 11 bracelets. He shouldn't call with J9suited just because TJ is tight player when it's 3-handed table? J9suited is a very good hand in short-handed game. According to Phil, you should only play 1 in every 25 hands since you have to wait all day for AA, KK, QQ, AK, JJ, TT, AQ, AJ. Let's not forget how Phil called two people's all-in bet with ATo in the main event he won. That's more amateur move than this round.

[vladimir4200]

j9 is a good hand on the flopp when u completely miss? he isnt banging on him for calling pre flop, that donk had no business calling with j high on the fucking flop. what are u talking about tj had him dead to a j or a nine on prob a bluff.....

[EdDy4RheelZ]

He had more than enough odds to call him on the flop. Idiot. This was 3-handed and TJ was short-stacked. Not only did he have flush draw, he had two overcards. If TJ didn't have overpair, he would have 15 outs. If TJ had an overpair, set, or 2 pairs, then kevin still has 9 outs. Compare their CHIPSTACK SIZES, dumbass. Punch in their hands on pokerstove. It will say Kevin McBride was more favorite to win.

[EdDy4RheelZ]

Just because TJ Cloutier and Scotty Nguyen are better poker players than Kevin McBride don't mean every Kevin's moves are donk/noob/idiot. As for this hand, Kevin made correct move and he had lot of chips to cover his moves. You really think Kevin called with only two overcards. He called because he had two overcards AND flush draw. EVERY PROFESSIONALS and NON-IDIOTS will call with J9suited on the flop if it's flush draw + two overcards while they have their opponent covered big time.

[vladimir4200]

i didnt see that it was suited until i watched it again and if i was deep i would probably make that call too, but tj was a 3 to 1 fav before the trun

[EdDy4RheelZ]

No he wasn't. Kevin was favorite 55.909% while TJ only had 44.091% chance of winning. Kevin had ALL spade cards to catch, PLUS 6 more cards to pair his hole cards. Kevin had 15 outs.

[vladimir4200]

so then do the math, whats 52 divided by 15??? 55% fav wtf are u talking about, get a poker calculator... seriously if he had 15 outs out of 52 cards how the fuck was he a fav, ur a fool

[EdDy4RheelZ]

Wow, you must be an idiot. I strongly suggest that you should temporarily quit poker and learn how to do math and calculate odds before going back to poker. That's not how you calculate odds, dumbass. Kevin had 15 outs with TWO CARDS TO COME since they decided from the flop. And I USED poker calculator, which is WHY i was able to come up with 55.909%. Dumbass.

[vladimir4200]

ur a fool

[EdDy4RheelZ]

Excluding running straight cards, I'll simply teach your dumbass how to calculate. It's 1-[(chance of outs not coming out by the turn)(chance of outs not coming out by the river from the turn)]. Since there are 45 cards left in the deck, it'll be 1-[(30/45)(29/44)] = 1-[0.45454545] = 0.5606 and that's only general percentage of kevin hitting one of 15 outs by the river. Reason why it's 55 is because there are other factors, such as kevin hitting hit outs but tj pairing his overcards.

[soccer004life]

ohh you dont count the 52 cards because he already knows his 2 cards so thats 50 then on the flop he knows 3 more cards thats 47 so its actually 15/47

no mean to diss just so you can get you calculations right

[EdDy4RheelZ]

Are you a retard? The reason why Kevin called was because he had flush draw + two overcards. Reason why TJ pushed all-in was to get Kevin off marginal hand because flop most likely missed both players. TJ didn't push because he thought he had a winning hand. He pushed because he was short-stacked and thought he can push Kevin off marginal hand.

[EdDy4RheelZ]

If you input their hands on pokerstove and input the flop, then it'll clearly say that Kevin had 55.909% chance of winning. What makes you think Kevin will call with two overcards? He called because he had flush draw on top of it. Only way Kevin would be heavily dominated is if TJ had higher flush draw. As long as Tj didn't have flush draw, Kevin will be 2:1 underdog at worst if someone had a set/straight, etc or be favorite coin-flip toss such as this video.

[EdDy4RheelZ]

TJ had him dead? TJ only pushed because he wanted Kevin to fold. TJ didn't push because he thought he was winning. TJ's push would get marginal hands to fold, such as AQo, TJo, middle pair, low pair, etc. Kevin called because he had two overcards WITH flush draw, which makes it 15 outs and he just has to hit one of the outs to win. Get a poker calculator and put their hands in. Kevin was 55.909% favorite. What do you mean "completely miss"? He was favorite. two overcards + flush draw = 15 outs.

[EdDy4RheelZ]

Their exact percentages from the flop are

Kevin's J9s winning percentage: 55.45%

TJ's QKo winning percentage: 43.64%

Chance of splitting the pot: 0.91%

I'm not writing that shit out of my ass. I'm typing the exact shit pokerstove and cardplayer odds calculator listed out.

[showmethemoney88]

not EXACT u dont know what scotty had folded so, its close maybe very close

[EdDy4RheelZ]

Let's say Scotty folded two of Kevin's outs or two spade cards. Even then, Kevin still has over 50% chance of winning. If Scotty took out Kevin's two outs, Kevin's chance decreases by 4-5% or so. Even then, Kevin is still in the lead. On that kind of flop, it's stupid to fold because TJ was short-stacked and flop most likely missed both players at this late stage of the tournament. And compare their chipstack sizes too. Kevin had TJ covered by miles.

[EdDy4RheelZ]

And also, look behind Kevin McBride's chipstack. He didn't have to put up most of his chipstack to call. He had TJ covered by miles. Only dumbfucks think this is a terrible call. Yes, Scotty Nguyen and TJ Cloutier are better players than Kevin McBride but as for this hand, Kevin's call was correct move and he had very good odds to call.

[EdDy4RheelZ]

For idiots who think Kevin McBride sucked out, you guys are fucking idiots. If you guys look at the percentages from the flop, Kevin Mcbride was lot more favorite to win than TJ Cloutier. Kevin Mcbride was 55.909% favorite while TJ was 44.091%. Fucking idiots. TJ Cloutier had to avoid 15 cards, which is very unlikely.

[blindtothesound]

Cloutier had to tap him to get a handshake. He was thinking, "i cant believe i just sucked out on TJ Cloutier! I suck!"

[kokoth]

Good prediction by Phil, "Next year we're expecting over 400, this is gonna keep growing at a huge rateI believe." Ten years later what is it. 7-8k ppl?

[therealkabs]

hahaha smoking at the poker tbale lol

[Monferno123]

and could accidentally burn his card or money

[m4rr3co2]

@therealkabs old school

[BCObozeman]

Wow phil, are you expecting over 400 players next year? That's AMAZING.

LOL

[begs100]

hellmuth even bitchs when hes not in the hand, fuk we he thinks that guys a d-bag

[TheCodemanShow]

If you knew what a dipshit TJ is in real life, you wouldn't feel so bad for him.

[tlamps94]

why is he a dipshit? i always thought he was a nice guy. is there any videos on here that shows him being an ass?

[famousashtray]

dipshit or not, that was a gross play

[dieselboy87]

phil looks like something out of the 80's here, and this was the late 90s haha.

[IIhollyw00dII]

and for the comment that says everyone he knocked out had a better hand preflop, well the FLOP is over 60% percent of the hand and costs only one round of betting

[Toenie]

wow thanks mister math, moron

[IIhollyw00dII]

amature????? u must be fucking kidding me man this guy is like 4 time runner up in the biggest tournament in the world, hes fucking favored on the flop NEWTON you jackass, which is why he played it its the type of hand u can crack a big hand, sit there and wait for aces agianst tj and scotty and see wtf happens, idiots man dont even no what there talking about all u do is repeat what PHIL HELLMUTH SAYS

[AdolfNewton]

calls 120 with J9, calls all in with flush draw. TJ must be saying WTF to himself

[jondoe19]

I am sorry--what does the 120 mean, as a blanket number? Do you know what stack size he was sitting on? Do you know what the blinds were? Neither the call pre-flop nor the call on the flop are bad--in fact, without giving this guy too much credit, he makes a good call on the flop given that his J and 9 are live.

[methmade]

omg phil hellmuth!

[SimplyAzn94]

lol he had to tap him on the hand for a handshake

[trippixboi]

TJ's like shake my hand so i can leave already dumbass...

[Bedrinonen]

woah TJ cloutier does get some pretty nasty luck in the final stages of the WSOP main event. that dude played his hand so bad. 2000 was the worst though.

[theKimmerly]

lol, I wouldnt be reaching over to shake his hand, lol, Id be reaching over smacking him in the face

[bfm92]

obvi he's gonna call with j9 spades

[liu11]

the amateur shouldn't call the preflop but the flop he had too many outs, it was a coin flip with good odds

[MrHippie]

This is hilarious, they all look like little kids, especially Helmuth, lmao! Well not little kids, but you know.... Just goes to show poker was about skill, even back then, and only sometimes luck, like in this vid.

[pantanal]

I totally agree..lol

[voirdire]

is there a right way and wrong way to play poker?? I'm not really sure, I mean any player can play however they wish, with whatever cards they want. Just because it's not a textbook play, people get defensive, because they wouldn't make the call, don't get me wrong I hate it when i get called with a shitty hand and then they win in the end agaisnt my strong hand. What are you gonna do.

[theKimmerly]

shakes his hand instead of being a dink, thats what you can do

[ihitmydraw]

well i think there are several right ways how to play poker but there are many more wrong ways... There are many situations where you can play more or less aggressiv but on the end of the day your plays gotta be mathematically correct, ie they win money over time... And you should never make "aggressiv calls"...lol

[ragdavis2000]

theres always someone out there looking to take you down with a mediocre hand.. get over it!

[Hulio7271]

What a cocky piece of shit... makes a horrible play and then won't shake TJ's hand until TJ practically forces him to shake hands. It's not like he didn't see TJ's hand right in front of his face. What a turdburgler.

[tavbf]

he did have a flush draw with live pairing cards tj only hd kinh high but the ntial preflop call was whack remember though tj didnt have to push there

[TheClanJamie]

The funny thing is, this guy was so cocky, he called off his whole stack in the final hand against Scotty, and admitted he was playing board.

[MachineManX51]

I don't care what anyone says, it was a terrible call. He showed no respect for a guy that had been playing tight all night and then <b>got lucky</b> and sucked out. And he probably thinks he's so smart for doing it too.

[SilentBob20]

I absolutely agree, it's the mark of a true amateur and why nobody ever heard of this guys name after this series because he played so bad but he got lucky.

He just couldn't get lucky against Scotty Nguyen baby! :D

[wiloyomix]

Ese bato esta piraton

[IvanXDurham]

donk

[29622]

Gotta love how TJ can take that beat with class. I know most people would be pretty ticked off, ie. Hellmuth.

[ASALLDAY]

hellmuth even sounded pissed in the booth..lol

[sammy1210]

jammy ur an idiot for wat u sed, u clearly need more experience when it comes to poker TJ is easily one of the best players of all time it was just a bad call.

[jwsisliving1]

Jammyfish you have NOOOOO idea what your talking about; I can't stress that enough. "Hasn't won any major tournaments?" His alltime tourney winnings are over 8.5 million dollars. And listen closely to what Phil said about the hand. It was a good move by TJ and a very bad call by his opponent. TJ got his chips in with the best hand. Plus it takes a MUCH better hand to call an allin raise than to make the raise. That's just common sense of poker

[cheech11]

jammy thats why tj is one of the biggest tournament winners of all time and you're some douchebag whos played for 6 months and is broke

[Jammyfish]

TJ over played his hand, no 1 is going to fold on the flop with a flush draw and 2 over cards when it gets 3 handed. No wonder he`s never won a major tournament, you have 2 pick your spots better than that. all in pre flop would`ve been a better move as the blinds would`ve been big and K-Q is a good hand for stealing blinds and i`ve only been playing 6 months, lol. Muppets.