1st Amendment (pt.1) - Michael Badnarik Bill of Rights Class

[lawkipedia]

Badnarik talk like a real Muslim man I hope that the Creator bless him and his family and gives him the courage and a long life to continue to fight for the right of the humans.

[MsLiberty101]

Are they allowed to impound a car for any reason? I know several ppl who had their cars impounded b/c they forgot to renew their driver's license, it was no more that 2 weeks over their birthday's...couldn't they just give em a warning & show proof them renew it.? it cost $600.for one day of impound w/fines...& the other guy never pick his car up cause they force him to keep it there for a month & they was no way he could afford it!

[DavidForthoffer]

He would be more impressive if he recited the First Amendment word for word, instead of almost word for word.

[Harikus]

i think the libertarian movement underestimates itself greatly, and they should put more videos up. but i also think people at large underestimate themselves too, they, like i used to be, believed a government program could fix anything, whereas individuals are helpless and weak. this is of course bull, as any movement starts with one person

[PaulUmbarger]

With the prayer in schools, he could run into the same basic problem that you ahve with religious stuff in court houses. Just how many different faiths can share equal time in a class room? What if you're the only Jewish kid in your school? Would that mean that you'd have to have a X-tian prayer every morning just because the majority wants it?

[Hashishin13]

@PaulUmbarger Its simple, the schools shouldn't be run by the government and in a private institution its your choice, also the kids shouldn't have to go to school. All it says is that "Congress shall make no law respecting" it, so I guess the commandments in court is okay, but I doubt the judge had the authority to put his own crap in a courthouse to begin with. It should be free of personal clutter such as large stone blocks.

[PaulUmbarger]

@Hashishin13 Interesting point. I don't know that I totally agree with kids not being compelled to go to SOME kind of school but, public schools as they are don't seem to be doing what we were promised that they would do. Mabe we should just have the kids say whatever prayer they want to at home and at school just say a pledge or an oath... not to the flag but, to the Constitution or something along those lines. What do you think?

[Hashishin13]

@PaulUmbarger Uh the pledge is to the flag and the republic for which it stands, so yea. The under God is some bullshit they snuck in, so it should go. Kids being compelled to go to school leads to the absurdity of being forced to go at the end of the year even when they aren't teaching anything, among other stupidities. I forget what ridiculous percent of knowledge is lost after one year of getting out of high school, I believe it's about 75%, you should go look at the study. 

[Hashishin13]

@PaulUmbarger Its not like the parents can't compel the kids to do things, like go to school, the government just shouldn't be part of it.

[Harikus]

@PaulUmbarger i agree that its problematic, which is why most libertarians believe in doing away with public schools. its the only way to solve the problem of dealing with the tyranny by the majority (or in other cases the minority)let people be responsible for their own kids, and pool resources if they so choose in order to teach their kids the way they want. there is the issue of externalities, but enough driven people can make things work in my opinion - where there is a will there is a way

[PaulUmbarger]

@Harikus IN the old days, all schools were locally operated and staffed.... and we've ALL heard the old folks talk about how they feel they got a better education even if it didn't cover as many subjects or go as in depth in some. As a side note, most "hoe schooled kids" Do tend to do better on exams than their peers but, seem to be lacking in some social skills. Perhaps a return to what we had years back WOULD be a better solution.

[Harikus]

@PaulUmbarger Sometimes I think it depends on the parents also. I met some of those home schooled kids who could hold great conversations and could deal with people very well. But their parents were sociable types. I never was good with people, I went to public school. I tended just to stay solitary. The old days had many benefits, like smaller classrooms, so they could get better one on one attention. It would be a great solution I think.

[Popperite]

I don't think he understands what establishment means. It's not the abolition of freedom of religion. Its just that the state recognises a certain church or religion as being "of the state". Non establishment basically means that the state cannot proselityse, while individuals can.

[Harikus]

I have researched homeschooling recently for a speech and I found statistics that suggested that home schooled kids perform better more often than not. That kinda dispelled most of my skepticism.

[Hashishin13]

@Harikus Who are you going to learn better from, and who is going to make sure you learn better: your parents/family or a stranger whose job it is?

[Harikus]

@Hashishin13 as i indicated on my 7 months ago statement, i have previously seen evidence to suggest homeschooling is actually better than public school. but yes i do agree that parents or family are better suited.

[putittogether]

Is this guy in prison yet? He should be. Talking about freedom and inalienable rights in America is a very dangerous thing now ah days.

[shadowcii]

I agree. He is a menice to society. Can you imagine if people new they had rights?

There would be mass prosperity and people would be uncontrolable.

We can't have that!!!

[Bananamanreturns]

someone want to chat

this video was good MY

[4merCIA]

While you guys are arguing over trivial details such as "a", "an", and "the" as if they had Biblical importance,your fucking government is totally ignoring and violating the "letter,intent, and spirit" of the entire Constitution n Bill of Rights! Under the present conditions do u really think we have time 2 worry about the fine nuances of meaning n the text? R government isn't! There's just 1 question every1 should ask themselves n that is whether u have the 00s 2 stand up 2 this tyranny or not.

[Harikus]

A problem arises in private schools. You can be punished for violating a rule,a religious rule, which also happens to be a school rule by virtue of it being a religious school. I believe there is an example of a religious school kicking a student out for being homosexual (it also happened to recieve public funding as well).This happened in my state. I know they say "just send them to a different one. But in kentucky, not a lot of options exist. Tough luck for you in a libertarian society eh?

[Rongstad]

In a libertarian society you would have an infinite choice of schools. The fact that government schools exist is exactly why we have so few choices.

[Harikus]

I am not so certain. I don't know if you live in the bible belt, but in many cases there isn't a lot of diversity. So this infinite choice of schools might be in some places but not everywhere. The only reason I support the idea of public schools is because I like the idea of a neutral place where learning takes precedence. I know this doesn't happen, but most "ideas" never occur in their purest form, but the chance is much higher than in a religious school where they teach creationism only.

[Rongstad]

Without government schools parents would select schools that were compatible with there beliefs, religious or otherwise.

Yes, there would be religious schools that not allow homosexuals, but there would other religious and non religious schools that would have no issue with homosexual students.

Do you realize that the common (government)school movement in the US was specifically for teaching certain religious beliefs?

[Rongstad]

It was a reaction to Roman Catholic and Lutheran immigrants to US not having the "proper" Protestant views. The King James Bible was a basic text in government schools.

There is a greater danger of mass forced conformity when the government runs the schools, then when the schools are run by a variety of private groups/people. Homeschooling is also a very viable option for many.

[Harikus]

I can see your point. I know we forced some of this conformity onto reservations and what not. Its unfortunate, but for me "all politics is local". For this area, I can imagine that there would only be religious private schools, which would have left many of my peers ill equipped for anything other than a major in theology. Public school offered at least a hint of something different, with more of a background in whether or not Jesus can make bread and fish out of thin air.

[shadowcii]

"a hint of something different" aka socialism and stupidity. We were number one in math and sicent pre department of education, now we are 26th.

It is YOUR JOB to teach YOUR KID to be...whatever you want it to be. Send it to trade school, send it private school, teach it yourself, but don't delude yourself into thinking there is value at a public school.

[1388dimevader]

so right shadowcii!!!!!

[shadowcii]

1."neutral place where learning takes precedence"... as you said, it doesn't happen.

2. You wouldn't take you kid to a school that teaches creationism, because you would be a voluntary customer. And because of that, you would have sway.

Just like you do when you are a customer of any other business.

you see, THEY WOULD HAVE TO PLEASE YOU because THEY WOULD WANT YOUR MONEY.

The only company that doesnt PLEASE its customers is the Government, and its customer service department is armed!

[Harikus]

"You wouldn't take you kid to a school that teaches creationism, because you would be a voluntary customer" -My political affiliation has since changed, and I do understand what people are saying here.I agree with most libertarian ideals and goals, this one I have problems with though. What if its the only school in your area? Tyranny via the masses can happen on a local level just as much as it can a national level. Frankly I wouldn't raise my kids in the bible belt, but its still a valid point

[shadowcii]

I dont understand your fear. If I had a preferance, and there was no one that offered my preferance, I would either choose to not participate, move to where I could have my preference fulfilled, or I would fulfill myself. 

Just like I do now with everything else.

To force your beliefs/product/service on other people at the barrel of a gun is never right.

You know that to be true. Don't you?

[Harikus]

Basically I do understand what your saying. But what I am getting at is this: Our government has checks and balances (if they are enforced) - those checks protect us. But here are almost no checks against the masses, therefore their tyranny can runamok with no concern for "rights" of individuals. I think its wrong to have to be chased out of your own home due to religious intolerance and zealotry. Its because of those problems our country first started or parts of it started -hello pilgrims

[shadowcii]

So, you would force your beleifs onto me and my children using brute force and violence?

You're right about the piligrims. They fled people who answered yes to above question.

They wanted freedom, they wanted to make up their own minds without people threatning them with violence.

[Harikus]

Religious freedom goes hand in hand with freedom from religion. It makes no sense to suggest you can worship whatever or however you want, but you absolutely must worship. However, if you live in some sections of America, you will find such ideals to be completely alien. The populace at large in these areas would rather downgrade education if it means protecting their beliefs from having to compete with other beliefs and cold hard facts. This is what I am dead set against, no matter the cost

[Hashishin13]

@Harikus Governments shouldn't educate.

[wachman]

you still have a choice. you are still perfectly able to homeschool your children. sure, that's the way our founding fathers did it, and it is still done today. You can find that home school education still has alot of merit even today. the only thing limiting from you doing so is yourself and how far you are willing to take your concerns for your child's education and future. I hope this helped some.

[Hashishin13]

@wachman People used to do all kinds more stuff at home, according to "who wants to be a millionaire" the first president to be born in a hospital was JIMMY CARTER! 1976 or something!

[shadowcii]

Non religious private schools exist in mass.

[herbs814]

Any private schools are better than government indoctrination camps ("schools").

[776281]

"all rights are individual Baptist rights"

[itry2brational]

Classic blunder. He said: "Congress shall make no law respecting THE establishment of religion;"

When you make this mistake you leave open a door for revisionists to interpret the establishment clause incorrectly.

He also made the huge mistake of editing the clause by inserting 'official/given religion'. Records of the continental congress show that they had several versions before them which were worded this way but were REJECTED. Read it as written. Dont revise it.

[md3inaustin]

itry2brational: How does what you said change the point of what Mr. Badnarik is making or what the intention was of that Amendment in the Bill of Rights?

From what I can tell, it doesn't. No matter whether the word is THE or AN is inconsequential to the principal of what rights that amendment is protecting for the people from the government. So are you masquerading as an individual with extensive knowledge on the subject trying to clear up confusion, or just pissing in everyone's cheerios?

[itry2brational]

THE or AN makes a huge difference when you interpret what it says. THE establishment of religion can only mean two things grammatically: either a specific reference somewhere earlier in the text OR the act of establishing.

1. There are no prior references in the text

2. 'religion' is not an establishment. 'religion' is a concept. He/you must add modifiers like 'a', or 'an official' in order for it to work grammatically..which is revision.

-more-

[itry2brational]

3. if its 'THE establishment of AN OFFICIAL religion' and 'thereof' in the free exercise clause takes its entire meaning from the word/phrase to which it refers, 'AN OFFICIAL religion', how would the free exercise read?

'Congress shall make no law..prohibiting the free exercise of AN OFFICIAL religion'

They cant make law respecting an official religion but they also cant make law prohibiting it. Where are rights for indiv.?

How is a correct reading limiting or ruining it/pissing in cheerios?

[jgrdonquixote]

Great stuff. I loved Mr. Badnarik's Constitutional class and would love to be around for one of these.

[maze01000101]

I was there for this class. Michael did a great job covering the Bill of Rights. Thank you for sharing this!