When I was in high school, I only learned about creationism in history class when it came to discussing the Scopes Trial, nothing more. My science class was science, no religious content whatsoever, and I was more than satisfied with that. The teachers of Cobb County who speak on behalf of their faith don't seem to realize they are going against the Constitutional rights they also swore to teach of. They should have their teaching certificates revoked.
Am I the only one who feels sorry for the willfully ignorant? Hell i believe in God. But Im not retarded. How long is his day? Y wouldnt the universe function on a set of rules? Why would God give us the tools to better understand it? And Christian or not. When I see you saying something flat out wrong and presenting it as fact while abusing an inherent trust because its from a christian to a christian. That just makes you a bad person. Stop driving, using any tech, or medicine.
how can these people complain about kids being subjected to evolutionary ideas when they do the exact same thing in church about god and heaven except there is a HUGE downside to not believing in god, an eternity of torture is more of a brainwashing tool than pictures of monkeys evolving to humans. total hypocracy.
The idea of creation is not a 2 sided argument. This is one of the reasons why the US government decided to stay out of the religion game because if you mention one you have to mention the others. So all of these people who say they just want the other side of the coin taught in school would also have to be in favor of teaching every single creation argument from every religion/culture and scientist in the whole world.
@IllusionaryUsername If God is not choosing who lives and who dies, then how could you allude he was "behind natural selection" in any meaningful way? It's like claiming a watchmaker is behind the tick of every gear and the unraveling of every spring. More embarrassing than your complete lack of understanding in science is your horribly mangled theology. I honestly don't understand how people get their brains twisted into these gnarled Gordian pretzels...
If you don't maintain your house or apartment by using your intelligence, it will fall to entropy. The same thing applies to pretty much everything. It is a universal principle.
For the record, I don't believe in the magical/traditional view of God, we are a reflection of Him therefore He is imperfect and fallible.
How was your watchmaker analogy supposed to debunk my argument? If anything, it only strengthens it. The watchmaker created the watch but leaves it to operate on it's own, only fixing it when it needs fixing. Maintenance.
@IllusionaryUsername Just when, and how, exactly, does your God maintain evolution or fix it? You're dancing around on this point. Natural selection is the nonrandom survival and reproduction of some organisms but not others. You first alluded that God was "behind that", but then said he's not a micromanager, so he's not actually involved in it, and now you're saying he steps in to fix or maintain it. When? Under what circumstances? In what way? You're being needlessly vague.
God only help those who help themselves. Meaning when an individual has done everything in his or her power to improve the situation but fails, God steps in. I'd think this is the reason why some lose their faith.
It is IMPOSSIBLE for natural selection to operate if there is no intelligence in nature. A bear doesn't decide to reproduce without it. Entropy prevails without it. It really is laughable to believe otherwise not to mention disturbing how anyone could question that.
@IllusionaryUsername "It is IMPOSSIBLE for natural selection to operate if there is no intelligence in nature." How do you know that? What about plants, simple multi-celled lifeforms and single-celled lifeforms? Seems like you forgot a couple of variables in you reasoning. Bacteria and viruses are excellent examples of how evolution works without intelligence, so you're wrong.
Every single life form, no matter how low or small it is, has a consciousnesses. Therefore, every single life form is capable of making decisions such as reproducing. This idea is ahead of it's time.
It's true that paintings and lifeforms are not the same but they were created using the same principle, the principle of creation. Any lifeform can use it.
"Just visit a factory. It's not that easy with your god though."
@IllusionaryUsername What makes you think that bacteria or viruses have consiousness, and what do you really define as consiousness, while we're talking about it? Bacteria and viruses dont need to make decisions to reproduce, mutate or whatever happens with them. No rational thought is incorporated in the reactions of chemicals and building blocks of such simple organisms. All really needed is time, probability and something to build of, basic elementary materials.
@IllusionaryUsername Ok, so was this supposed god created through the principle of creation as well? Why is it that it has to be intelligence behind something for it to actually work?
"Just visit planet Earth."
Ok you failed to understand what I meant. We are now on planet Earth, and we cannot observe any of the supposed gods. We can go to a factory to see things be created by humans, but we cannot observe any god create anything on Earth. It is a pitfall to come to the conclusion that you do.
@IllusionaryUsername Not sure if youre being serious or mocking the bozos. If youre serious: do you understand even the first thing about natural selection?
Do you also question the existence of those who created computers and their evolution which is caused by human intelligence? Of course not. But if you were consistent in your illogical beliefs, you should.
@IllusionaryUsername "Do you also question the existence of those who created computers and their evolution which is caused by human intelligence?" You really answered your own question there. Of course no one questions the intelligence of the human creators, since they can actually be observed while creating computers. It's obvious that humans made computers. Just visit a factory. It's not that easy with your god though. That's the problem that debunks your watchmaker analogy.
@IllusionaryUsername Your painter argument is also flawed since a painting is not the same as lifeforms. We also know, because we can observe, that paintings are painted by humans. What we don't know, and cannot observe that a god have created life. Also, saying it magically created itself is wrong, because it is not about magic, it happened as a result of chemical properties and natural laws. You clearly don't know anything about evolutionary biology, and very little about chemics.
Beginning: Science along with religion makes me think that. The estimated age of the universe is around 13 billion years. I thought it was common knowledge that there was a beginning. People just have differing theories on how the universe began. And everything that has a beginning has an end.
Need for intelligence: This is like asking why do you need intelligence to drive a car or write a computer program. I certainly haven't seen any evidence to the contrary. I have never seen any animal or human doing even the most simple things without intelligence. Also because of deterioration or entropy. The definition of entropy is as follows:
"The natural and irreversible tendency toward randomness and disorder in any system without an external source of energy applied with intelligence."
@IllusionaryUsername If we, for the sake of argument, say that there was a beginning where everything came from, I don't have to attribute it to an intelligence. If we say that for example, God did it, where did God come from? Nothing? "Impossible." Please explain to me your logic behind that.
God origin: Good question, I kind of set myself up for that one. If there wasn't a source at some point then the universe as we know it, would not exist at all. It's either SOMETHING or NOTHING. If this is circular logic, then the alternative (NOTHING) is even more illogical.
Creationists.... if you deny science, don't just pick and chose what sciences you deny/follow. If you're gonna deny one science, well firstly get rid of your computers and cell phones, cos those are made thanks to science (geology specifically as a prime example), then take off your clothes, as they are science, leave your house which stands thanks to an understanding of physics and go live in a cave somewhere like your 3000 year old Bronze Age philososphers did.
@IllusionaryUsername Did you stop to think that the "natural" part of natural selection exactly answered that question? Nature.
If you want to believe that God is micromanaging every living thing and choosing which will die in which way, then enjoy the consequences. God chooses that this gram-positive mutant germ will die, but this one won't. He chooses this gazelle to evade a cheetah, but this one won't. He chooses this child with sickle-cell anemia will die of malaria, but this one won't...
And what's behind nature? Obviously, there must be a driving force behind evolution. Are you trying to tell me that life magically evolved without a shred of intelligence and consciousnesses? Without a driving force everything would fall to entropy. That is just a fact of life.
Of course God is not directly micromanaging every single living thing. We use our God given intelligence and free will to manage our own lives, causing evolution.
@IllusionaryUsername You say "obviously", but I don't think it means what you think it means. I never appealed to magic. You believe there's a magic man behind it all, not me. The universe IS gaining in entropy and will eventually reach a state of max entropy known as heat death. We're just not there yet. Every bit of energy on Earth is offset by an increase in entropy in the sun. Earth is not a closed system, you twit.
You say "fact", but I don't think it means what you think it means.
You say magic never appealed to you yet you believe in a magical evolution without cause. Logically speaking there must be a cause behind pretty much everything. You're the cause of your comments. To believe otherwise is ludicrous.
I wasn't talking about the end of the universe. Until then humans and other life forms will continue to evolve to a higher state of consciousness.
At 2:24 to 2:40 his argument is false. We are held responsible to governmental laws, and also to each other. For all those who doubt that, try being a punk, and see if you don't get beat down, or enjoy a sleepover with all your buddies in prison.
And not only that, we hold to a code of goodness, for which we don't need some supposed 'holy' book to tell us about.
Norse mytology and greek mythology contains the same amount of "proof" for how the earth came to be as the bible. Wich is some 3-4 thousands of years old tales that was wroten down. Why is it then that people think that nether the norse or greek mythology gods are considred real if God is?
evolution is not a religion. anyone who would claim it to be dosen't know what defines religion.
how the fuck can ppl be arguing that evolution isnt real.. FUCK OFF RELIGIOUS DUMBASS CLOWNS. Prech creationism in church and not schools.. And btw I believe in the alien-"theory" more than creationism.
There was a period in human history when religion wasn't holding us back like this and scientific discovery was respected. In recent years, the politicization of religion has effectively spun us around - America in particular - to a Bronze Age belief system. That serious scientists have to waste time arguing with Creationist dunderheads is a crime of the highest order.
I've heard some forms of intelligent design theories that sounded decent, but that was from a person (i dont remember his name) who was a scientist before he became a priest. He believes in the big bang theory, evolution and all that stuff, but he feels that because the laws of physics are so complex that any slight difference would make our entire existence impossible, he believes that there was some sort of creator behind it and not just by chance, but he still believes in evolution
@tocko92 Yes but there are also theories that we're not the only universe and the laws of physics are applied differently in accordance to alternate realities or dimensions, of course this is just speculation with sound theoretical physics behind it, but I'll take that rather than godidit.
this is the war of two religions God (imaginary friend) vs Evolution (fairy tail for adults) yeah evolution is not real science... if you believe other wise check this out Darwin faked evidence for evolution and every time a new evidence for evolution is refuted by creationism they look for new ones.. why didn't P & T had a debate between two people.. they manipulate the program and edit it for our entertainment.. and yeah i like the program and evolution is bullshit... religion bullshit..
@telectronicguy Evolution is a theory in a Scientific Sense and also a fact. Geologists, biologists, astronomers, etc.. all agree that evolution is a very real thing that's been occurring for hundreds of millions of years. The theory is sound with all these different fields which have given independent studies that agree with each other and prove the theory true. P&T aren't editing anything, creationism is superstition without a doubt, case closed, it does Not belong in a science class.
@telectronicguy Evolution is a theory in a Scientific Sense and also a fact. Geologists, biologists, astronomers, etc.. all agree that evolution is a very real thing that's been occurring for hundreds of millions of years. The theory is sound with all these different fields which have given independent studies that agree with each other and prove the theory true. P&T aren't editing anything, creationism is superstition without a doubt, case closed, it does Not belong in a science class.
If you describe yourself as a creationist scientist, your credentials are immediately void. Being a creationist means to try and find evidence to support already set conclusions written by ancient men. What a load of garbage.
Go outside, pick up a rock and run an experiment on it to find out how old it is, chance is you fill find out it's way older than 4-6k years old. Did you guys know that about 60 or 50% of all americans believe that the world is not older than like 4-6k years old? Can you believe it? Becouse I sure can't. That is the kind of stuff that reeeaaally makes me worry about the future of mankind. We have to turn this trend around.
Simple as this: Evolution has applications in medicine. When somebody goes to the doctor, they should be asked if they believe in evolution or not, if they don't, any type of medical benefits that are explained by knowledge from evolution (like antibiotics), should be denied to them.
I'm glad I belong to a religion that isn't threatened by Science and that we can happily exist with the teachings of Science and our own spiritual believes side by side.
are religious people really serious with their arguments against atheists?...i mean they cant really believe this shit can they?...people there is no ghosts behind it ....its all natural..goodness...love...immortality..its all there in the physical world....you dont need to believe in ghosts...like the spirit of christmas...people its not a real spirit..its a feeling same as god...its a feeling ...not an ACTUAL ENTITY!!!....please wake up...and be free!
If that school district is going to teach creationism or it's slightly different version called ID, then we should teach all the creation myths, including the ones that the students think of as the class happens. Whether it be an ant masturbating and spooging out galaxies or a celestial cow pie. Teach the controversy damn it!
People who want Creationism in school obviously dont know the first thing about science.
I mean if you want you kids to believe the Earth was created in 7 days then take they ass to church. Thats what its there for. School is for Knowledge. Church is for Religion.
But I am offended that they did not acknowledge my religion of the Great Spaghetti Monster!
Let's forget creationism and lets teach some Zeusnism. Theorys about Zeus, Poseidon, Hades etc. But... the question is; do we have any evidence about them? No. We dont have any kind of evindence about christianitys god neither.
There's millions of things to believe about the matter, Creationism and Evolutionism are just two most popular things. I think giant monsters made out of bread puked us out of their mouths and left us here. Not really, but I could. I'd call it Donutism. If I was crazy, I'd go to court and express my opinion. I would then be burned at a stake by rioters using pitchforks and torches. These rioters would be Christians.
@dumbacrew you dont even have to point out the lack of understanding of a scientific theory, just point out evolution doesn't explain how life started, its what comes after the hypotheses of Abiogenesis, all though they have proven many times over that they can spawn life, i am unsure if they have done anything to bump it up to a theory. but if they argue over that they just want to argue so just lay down the pimp hand or walk away
This makes me so fucking angry. Scientific theories may not be correct but they offer the most logical reason and have years of research and evidence. Religious theories have non of this. And even if science somehow proved evolution was wrong they would hold their hands up and admit it whereas religion is pretty much the denial of observation.
Where the fuck to these religious nuts get off by equating Christianity with Creationism, it doesn’t. The Vatican (surprisingly given their idiotic view on issues like, contraception and gays) stated that "The faithful should heed modern science and to guard against religion crossing over to fundamentalism if it ignores scientific reasoning." Creationists are merely a Christian cult. And it suits them to be seen to be speaking for everyone.
@manusdextra That is one view, mine is that Creationists are Christians that read the bible under a particular kind of instruction, which leads to ideas that are easily proved wrong by science. And that by holding on to those beliefs, tooth and nail, miss, devalue or drive smart people away, from some really valuable information. But then that’s just my view.
@manusdextra Correction: Creationist are hypocritical Christians that have read the Bible and only follows certain aspects of the bible more literally then other. There is a passage that says something like this "If you have faith in god, you can drink harmful liquids (poison) and still be in good condition", I don't think any creationist are going to be willing to test their faith.
@zzzIdividedbyzerozzz There is also a passage that instructs people to cut off their own hands if the hands cause them to be sinful. I'd love to see some Creationists take that verse literally.
@manusdextra No, that's not what the passage means, lol. Its like a parable, what Jesus meant was that if you have a friend who causes you to sin or to go against God's will, then you should cut yourself from him so as to remain pure and walk in the path of God and righteousness.
@theaccousticaddict It doesn't say there that it is a parable. Seems to me like an almighty, all-knowing god might possibly have the intelligence to inspire his minions to put down a warning. After all, what kind of god would want his own creatures to cut off all their limbs because he made them in a way that they were prone to sin? Oh right, the Christian god.
@manusdextra Ive told you what that passage of the bible means, but you,ve still refused to take my answer, you still want to stick with what you know. How can God ask someone to literally to cut off his arm or leg just to get rid of sin? that makes no sense, sin is not in this parts, but comes from from the heart. Here Jesus is saying that we should stay clear of sinners who might cause us to sin and go against God's wishes, i dont care if you believe me or not, but that's just the truth.
@theaccousticaddict "I lack imagination and logic? you are the one who believes you are an animal." I don't believe it. I think it because it accords with the facts. I have repeatedly used logic to explain why evolution is a logical necessity. Imagination comes into it because you have to be able to visualise small changes over a large time-scale adding up to big changes (not a lot of imagination, but some.) Again - why is it bad to be an animal?
@theaccousticaddict "variation+natural selection+hereditary would prove evolution, but natural selection never happened". Wow! So I just have to prove that there are pathogens, or competition for resources, or competition for mates, or predators? I just have to prove that a rabbit which runs faster than other rabbits may well be more likely to escape from predators? I sincerely hope so, but I know that it may not be that straightforward...
Actually, as a former christian, I can tell you that the hand cut off/ limb cut off thing is indeed a parable. Most things in the bible used rather graphic stories to get their point across, but rest assure, most were just metaphor or parables. Then again, I'm more of a deist now, not a Christian so much any more. Except for Christmas church services. For some reason, I cannot bring myself to skip those. Something....peaceful about them I guess....
@AndrewDeLong I believed the same thing when I was a Christian. If most of those stories are parables, who decides which ones aren't? Who decides what verse should be followed and what verse should be dismissed? People do, fallible people. And there goes your immaculate scripture, right out of the window.
Lol. I never called it immaculate. But there are sections of it that simply make sense to at least hear out. I'm talking of course about the basic don't kill, steal, cheat, lie....ones. Then again, those tenants are pretty much found in every religion that has ever existed (saved for the monogamy...which is sort of a Christian ideal...and maybe a few other religions).
And like I said, I'm a former Christian gone deist. To me, God is not definable by a book.
@AndrewDeLong Of course you didn't, you're not a Christian. Christians call it immaculate, and that's how I've come to believe most of them are mentally handicapped.
Why are those commandments found everywhere? They are founded on logic and define the social contract. Many religions take pride in being the first to formulate these rules, but that is of course absurd. Many religious people also ask "If you don't believe in god, where do you get your morals?". Same answer as before: Intelligence.
Well, like I said, I believe in a FORM of God. But as you said, I don't derive my morals from him / her / it. I would be insane to think that any being, if one does exist, would be so fundamentally simplistic (that would be Occam's Razor brought to a new extreme). Much like the ant being wholly unable to comprehend us, I doubt very much our ability to comprehend whatever the hell it is I call God.
@manusdextra do you think your religion is better than other religion? and why? Most religious people will tell you that their religion is the best..why? Humans are no better than sheeps
@tkathryyn I have no religion, so no. I think all religion is worthless and ultimately dangerous. I'm surprised you didn't realize this after reading my comments so far.
im happy i dont have faith in any kind of religion anymore. in my opinion its a burden to the human race as we know it, you go to war over it, you fail to agree with the faiths of other people. a ridiculous amount of money goes into funding it. i hate the fact that the human race isn't going anywhere, and has to resort to living in its own dreams because it cant face the real world around it.
Hmm....I'm a deist, and have no issue with other religions. Then again, I don't really have a religion. I just believe in a higher power in general. Much like an agnostic, only a bit more so. Still, this does not stop me from my pursuit in the sciences. It does not even hinder my 100% belief in things such as a godless big bang, or quantum theory. As I see it, your issue is not with all religions. Just organized, advancement stifling religion. In that, I can sympathize.
No need to sleep over it. God has a plan? did got not see this coming? Peace and Harmony huh?....not the strongest attributes of human nature. How do you know we're not supposed to destroy this planet? Maybe while destroying this planet we will find a new one to live on, you never know. Gotta be open to more than just your own personal opinion. If i wasnt open to other opinions I wouldn't have responded to you at all
@DynamicTheRapper, Yes peace and harmony, but all this was meant to be until satan tempted Adam and Eve into sinning against God, that's when everything changed.
Dragonflys can hover,fly backward,forward etc. Scientists have found that the dragonfly uses out-of-phase flapping in order to save energy. Engineers hope to apply this to future versions of micro flapping vehicles. Another example of humans learning something from the Master Designer.
@funkster22657, Alright, first of all, there's no place in the bible that has it that the earth is 6000 years old, so i dont know what you are talking about.
If someone found the crashed space ship or ancient laboratory with the remains of the dead Creator/Designer and his notes and plans, then the ID people would triumph,
I read it. I never found it profound. It just sounds like something preached by some brainwashing cult leader. The Theory of evolution has flaws. But those flaws are just missing pieces to a puzzle. I'm more inclined to take conclusions put together by scientists over stories written by people sitting outside their tents some 5000 years ago.
@br00k39 Evolution has no flaws, evolution is a flaw itself, it is fake, a hoax, it never happened, it,s not happening, and it will never happen no matter the millions of fossils evolutionists produce (which by the way most of it are actually man made).
Evolution is a disgrace to humanity, word of advice to you my friend: Dont let the devil make a monkey out of ya, you are a human being, not an animal, stop demeaning yourself to control and manipulation.
@theaccousticaddict Don't just say it's a flaw, prove it. Your "arguement" is no different then the rest of the agenda driven creationists who say "it's false, because we say it's false, and if we say it it's the truth". Wheather you like it or not, man is another animal. Sometimes better most of the time worse than our four legged counterparts. We're flesh and bone, just like they are. Enjoy living in your fantasy world.
@br00k39, Alright fine, first of all, evolution has never been witnessed or seen since the beginning of human civilization. Secondly, transitional fossils have not been completely found to fill up the evolutionary, there's still gaps left to occupy, and for years now, evolutionists have not been able to find this transitional fossils to fill in this gap, some have gone to the extent of manufacturing fake ones, but the truth is that there is no transitional fossils of sort. should i continue?
@br00k39 Alright fine, first of all, evolution has never been witnessed or seen since the beginning of human civilization. Secondly, transitional fossils have not been completely found to fill up the evolution chain, there's still gaps left to occupy, and for years now, evolutionists have not been able to find this transitional fossils to fill in this gap, some have gone to the extent of manufacturing fake ones, but the truth is that there is no transitional fossils of sort. should i continue?
@theaccousticaddict I'm not convinced. You just prove to me that that there are still missing pieces to the puzzel that we still have yet to discover.
"evolution has never been witnessed or seen since the beginning of human civilization. " But the story of Genisis has right? Like I said I'm more likely to believe what theories scientists have put together, than something that reads like typical mythology.
@br00k39, So in other words, you,d rather believe that you evolved from a fish than believe that you where specially made and created right? think, does that make sense? From the two which makes more sense? which one is more real? That you evolved from a monkey?I have a felling that you dont think before coming to a conclusion.
@br00k39 No am talking about you mate. From my own point of view, its very unrealistic for an Ape to evolve into man, for life to start in the sea. Common sense can help us debunk this stuff.
@theaccousticaddict wow you don't give up do you. The only thinking you seem to do is whatever your church and the book of fairy tales you call your bible tells you to think. I grew up having the bible shoved down my throat. When I studied greek and roman mythology, I got the same feel from those stories as i did from the stories in the bible. Why should I accept the stories in the bible to be anymore real?
@br00k39 We all have the freedom of choice, you,ve choosed not to believe in God, i choose to believe in him cos of who he really is. You are of the world, i am of the spirit of God. The bible is more of a spiritual symbolism than physical and clearly, you dont know about this, you reading the bible is like an illiterate going through the pages of a book without being able to understand what's in it.
@theaccousticaddict WOW, if that doesn't reak of condesending douchebaggery, I don't know what does. I'll leave you to enjoy living in your cultist bullshit fantasy world. "You are of the world" I'll take that as a compliment as to me it means I live in reality while you chose to live in delusion. And since you have a lame ass no-matter-what-I'm-right answer to everything. Why don't you explain why you sound like a bigger retard with every message you post!
@br00k39 Lol, how ignorant are you? Just becuase you have no knowledge and understanding od something doesnt mean you have to classify it as delusional, stupid or crap. You,d sound alot more smarter if you said "I dont know about what you know" rather than condemning it immediately. Most people out there who are spiritual, who are Christians, Muslims or Islamic are not stupid. Its just that they understand spirituality and know what is in there. You dont know, stop making a fool of yourself.
@theaccousticaddict "Just becuase you have no knowledge and understanding od something... etc"
Refer to your own words regarding evolution. You don't understand even the most basic principles from what information you've given us. Pot calling the kettle black?
I see no reason why God would be inconsistent with what we have seen scientifically (we HAVE seen evolution by natural selection -- peppered moths, for example). I'm not an atheist, mind you. I am however anti-stupid.
@FanshiiKingyo The truth is: 1) Evolution never occoured, 2) Man has no animal ancestor, not an ape, not a monkey, man was man right from the beginning and ape and monkeys where still apes and monkeys. 3) We did not evolve into smarter and sphisticated beings, we where created this way.
@theaccousticaddict I'm willing to listen. What empirical evidence can you provide to support your conjecture? Please don't quote the bible -- while it might be your reasoning, for most people, it's not a good enough reason. Don't quote any "scientist" or tell me to "Google it" -- give me your personal, scientific (or simply rational) synopsis regarding why evolution didn't occur and how we were made. Although I am open to the idea of God, just saying "God did it" proves nothing but ignorance.
@FanshiiKingyo Why is it that all explanations must be made scientifically? Is science the only means of explanation? Is Google the only search engine in the world? No. What prove do you need? That God is real? Well, he is. The bible tell us so, asking me to explain stuff to you without the bible is like asking a student to carry out an assignment without reading for it.
@theaccousticaddict I don't know where to begin with that. I do agree with you, though: not everything needs a scientific explanation. But that mindset doesn't fly with anyone. I have actually read the bible from cover-to-cover (I'm Catholic), but I, like 80% of Christians, don't condone a literal interpretation of the creation of man. I believe God and evolution are perfectly compatible. Why not interpret genesis as a metaphor for evolution?
@FanshiiKingyo, I dont mean to be rude, but there's a difference between Christianity and Catholicism. Catholics tend to worship Mary more than Jesus himself which is wrong. Mary wasnt a God, an Angel, or had supernatural powers to perform miracles, she was just like any other. Bowing down to satues is also wrong, the bible forbide it, even though it is that of Jesus, God or Mary, its wrong.
@theaccousticaddict Well, it's incorrect to refer to "Christianity" as a religion, because it ain't. It's a syllogism. Catholicism falls under the branch of "Christianity" as do baptists, lutherans, anglicans etc. Catholics were also the original Christians, as well as the largest Christian denomination (despite corruption).
The bible does contain some accurate scientific knowledge, but Greeks worked out the earth was round far prior to Christianity (along with everything else you mentioned).
@FanshiiKingyo I qiute disagree with you if you say that Catholism is falls under the branch of Christianity, They tend to worship and bow down to Mary more than Jesus and God himself. Now, Mary wasnt a God, she wasnt an angel, and there's no place in the bible that asks us to worship Mary, Even Jesus himself never aksed his disciples to worship Mary, Mary was just a girl that God used to bring his son to the world.
@theaccousticaddict You can disagree with it all you want, any dictionary or encyclopedia you pick up will say otherwise. Analytically and definitively speaking, its true. You can't argue definition. The fact that you disagree is an opinion, don't present it as fact.
I'll tell you who's more Christlike: people who leave the confines of ass-kissing in Church and actually do something for mankind. You know, people who fund-raise, help the mentally disabled, do mission work... But I digress.
@FanshiiKingyo Christians do mission work as well my friend, talking about fund raising and all that, yes we do so as well. How about the governments that spend zillions of dollars on war machines, guns and weapons of mass destruction instead of using that money to help the poor and the needy? Just bcos we are Christians doesn't mean we have all the money in the world you know, but we try our best.
@theaccousticaddict "evolution is not the truth, its just a theory developed so that unbelievers can have a means of explaining God's creation without including God". Ah. So there we have it. You're a paranoid conspiracy nut. You're wrong: nobody developed the theory of evolution to get rid of God - if you think the facts threaten God then it's your faith which is weak, not the theory of evolution, which most Christians agree with, and which has more evidence for it than the theory of gravity!
@FanshiiKingyo,Mary is not to be worshipped, but yet Catholics do, which is so very wrong, Mary is not the savious of mankind, Jesus is, That's why he died for our sins, It is only through Jesus that we can get to God not through Mary, so i dont know where Mary comes into the picture ofworship. That alone defiles the bible and its doctrines, and yet you tell me that Catholics are more Christians than us.
@FanshiiKingyo The bible warns against bowing down to moulden and careved images and worshipping them, but yet, atholics bow down to moulden and carved images of Mary and Jesus which is so very wrong, that itself is paganism and defiles the doctrines of the bible. God or Jesus never said in the bible that we should make carved images to worship. Now tell me, who is more Christ like? Uss or the catholics.
@theaccousticaddict Oh, and I don't intend on responding to you again (although I appreciate your civility), because clearly your understanding about your own religion and it's denominations is lacking. I don't think the worship of Mary is anywhere near as extreme as you make it out to be. You're entitled to your own opinion, but until you realize that your opinion does not equate to fact, no one can expect a meaningful discussion from you.
@theaccousticaddict "Selective pressure does not exist". So predators don't exist, fast-moving prey doesn't exist, or heat or altitude or pathogens or hard-to-reach food? Extraordinary claim. "Are you saying that humans are in transitional form?" Yes. Of course. "So evolution is the slight differences in living things?" Yes, slight differences building up over thousands of generations. Natural selection is the ratchet. What is so hard about this?!
@theaccousticaddict Second part of my discussion. What if, theoretically, 2000 years ago, I wrote a book claiming *I* was the daughter of God and it caught on and circulated. Other books were added. It survived the ages, and I became the center of a major world religion. What makes Jesus any more credible than FanshiiKingyo for the son of God?
All I'm trying to raise is an idea. If you want people to take you seriously, you have to approach differently... You really just dodged my question...
Ultimately no one knows even if they may think they do. And that's fine. After all it should be about living in the right questions. Not just having an answer for everything.
@FanshiiKingyo. What makesJesus more credible is that through him, mankind was saved, he offered his life for us, that which no one, not even FanshiiKingyo cant do. The bible told us the earth was round, told us about the millions of stars in the skies, told us about the asteroids (In the bible reffered to as the falling star from above), So if your book able to tell us about this stuff 2000 years ago without the aid of science or any advanced knowledge, then i would really value your book.
@theaccousticaddict The bible also says slavery is OK, that a woman must be a virgin on her wedding day or she will be stoned to death and many more bronze age fallacies.
In other words, the bible is a book full of myth and superstition based on a time gone by and of previous sun worshipping and paganisms. I pity you for not having the mental intellect to overcome such a tale.
@FixedNewsChannel, Yes, a woman should be married a virgin. Just bcos the worls is so now very corrupt that's why this seems impossible for you to comprehend, but the truth is that it is more blessed to offer yourself only to your wife or husband, that's why he is your wife or husband, not to sleep around, giving your self to others before to your husband or wife.
@FixedNewsChannel You say the bible is based on a time gone by, well you are wrong, there;s still sun worshipping and paganism going on today, the worship od moulden and carved images is paganism, the bible forbids that. The past is the foundation on which the present and future stands.
@FixedNewsChannel Olympics was originated in Greece, and was ussually played to honor the god Zeus, but it is still being played today, worldwide. Football and golf was originated by ancient chinese but still is being played today worldwide.All what we do now has been done beofre in the past, the only difference is that with the aid of technology, its being done more swiflty, morden and different, but that doesnt change the fact that it is still football or it is still Olympics.
@theaccousticaddict So in other words, you have no valid argument against evolution, nor do you proof that your mythological god is real as opposed to the 1000s of other mythological gods out there. You're either stupid or brainwashed.
@br00k39 You are of the world cos you have no understanding of spirituality. You only know God through what people have told you about him. You are of the world cos you are carnal minded and understand not spiritual things. You see, as nature is balanced by good and evil, so is life balanced by spirituality and physicality. All those who are wise both physically and spiritually know this for a fact. I dont have anything against you for not knowing, but stop saying crap about stuff you dont know
@br00k39 I still maintain, you are of the world, and i am of the spirit of God, am not boasting but, i may be in this world but i am not of the world, i am of God and above human and satanic destruction. You have been decieved and i dont blame you for it, but all i pray is that may you be saved through the abundance grace of God.
@theaccousticaddict and I still maintain that you talk like a brainwashed delusional cultist, and that you simply don't want to believe that there's scientific evidence that defies your fairy tale beliefs, and I simply just don't care what you think. Besides, are you still wasting your time on youtube trying to convert (opps sorry, I meant 'save') people. Go get laid or find a more positive hobby.
@br00k39 Of course there's scientific evidence, i never said there wasnt, ive seen fossils unearthed by scientists and evolutionists, but what any one has failed to prove to me is how exaclty this fossils prove evolution, i mean, just bcos two things look like each other doesnt mean they actually evolved or came from each other.
When I was in high school, I only learned about creationism in history class when it came to discussing the Scopes Trial, nothing more. My science class was science, no religious content whatsoever, and I was more than satisfied with that. The teachers of Cobb County who speak on behalf of their faith don't seem to realize they are going against the Constitutional rights they also swore to teach of. They should have their teaching certificates revoked.
zcm007attack 2 weeks ago
I guess some people are still stuck in the Dark Ages
13Kukis 3 weeks ago
Coming from the UK these creationists just seem totally nuts.
bone535 2 months ago
2:12 they took my stapler
Bubbins909 2 months ago
It would be nice if they showed the BS of Evolutionism, but that is their religion so they will not.
bryonlape 2 months ago
Darwin said no such thing, at all.
keithpetro 2 months ago
Am I the only one who feels sorry for the willfully ignorant? Hell i believe in God. But Im not retarded. How long is his day? Y wouldnt the universe function on a set of rules? Why would God give us the tools to better understand it? And Christian or not. When I see you saying something flat out wrong and presenting it as fact while abusing an inherent trust because its from a christian to a christian. That just makes you a bad person. Stop driving, using any tech, or medicine.
HartAHart 2 months ago
how can these people complain about kids being subjected to evolutionary ideas when they do the exact same thing in church about god and heaven except there is a HUGE downside to not believing in god, an eternity of torture is more of a brainwashing tool than pictures of monkeys evolving to humans. total hypocracy.
bricbob1986 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Creationists prove that there is no God
Evenflowist314 4 months ago
The idea of creation is not a 2 sided argument. This is one of the reasons why the US government decided to stay out of the religion game because if you mention one you have to mention the others. So all of these people who say they just want the other side of the coin taught in school would also have to be in favor of teaching every single creation argument from every religion/culture and scientist in the whole world.
yellowunlimited 4 months ago
Why can't these people keep their own beliefs in their own homes.
CallMeMrX 5 months ago
@IllusionaryUsername If God is not choosing who lives and who dies, then how could you allude he was "behind natural selection" in any meaningful way? It's like claiming a watchmaker is behind the tick of every gear and the unraveling of every spring. More embarrassing than your complete lack of understanding in science is your horribly mangled theology. I honestly don't understand how people get their brains twisted into these gnarled Gordian pretzels...
dorsk188 7 months ago
@dorsk188
If you don't maintain your house or apartment by using your intelligence, it will fall to entropy. The same thing applies to pretty much everything. It is a universal principle.
For the record, I don't believe in the magical/traditional view of God, we are a reflection of Him therefore He is imperfect and fallible.
IllusionaryUsername 7 months ago
Respond to this video...
How was your watchmaker analogy supposed to debunk my argument? If anything, it only strengthens it. The watchmaker created the watch but leaves it to operate on it's own, only fixing it when it needs fixing. Maintenance.
IllusionaryUsername 7 months ago
@IllusionaryUsername Just when, and how, exactly, does your God maintain evolution or fix it? You're dancing around on this point. Natural selection is the nonrandom survival and reproduction of some organisms but not others. You first alluded that God was "behind that", but then said he's not a micromanager, so he's not actually involved in it, and now you're saying he steps in to fix or maintain it. When? Under what circumstances? In what way? You're being needlessly vague.
dorsk188 7 months ago
@dorsk188
God only help those who help themselves. Meaning when an individual has done everything in his or her power to improve the situation but fails, God steps in. I'd think this is the reason why some lose their faith.
It is IMPOSSIBLE for natural selection to operate if there is no intelligence in nature. A bear doesn't decide to reproduce without it. Entropy prevails without it. It really is laughable to believe otherwise not to mention disturbing how anyone could question that.
IllusionaryUsername 7 months ago
@IllusionaryUsername "It is IMPOSSIBLE for natural selection to operate if there is no intelligence in nature." How do you know that? What about plants, simple multi-celled lifeforms and single-celled lifeforms? Seems like you forgot a couple of variables in you reasoning. Bacteria and viruses are excellent examples of how evolution works without intelligence, so you're wrong.
SensualLeopardDesign 6 months ago
@SensualLeopardDesign
Every single life form, no matter how low or small it is, has a consciousnesses. Therefore, every single life form is capable of making decisions such as reproducing. This idea is ahead of it's time.
It's true that paintings and lifeforms are not the same but they were created using the same principle, the principle of creation. Any lifeform can use it.
"Just visit a factory. It's not that easy with your god though."
Just visit planet Earth.
IllusionaryUsername 6 months ago
@IllusionaryUsername What makes you think that bacteria or viruses have consiousness, and what do you really define as consiousness, while we're talking about it? Bacteria and viruses dont need to make decisions to reproduce, mutate or whatever happens with them. No rational thought is incorporated in the reactions of chemicals and building blocks of such simple organisms. All really needed is time, probability and something to build of, basic elementary materials.
SensualLeopardDesign 6 months ago
@SensualLeopardDesign
Consciousness: An awareness. The ability to think, feel and act. We're pretty much dead without it. There is no probability without it.
IllusionaryUsername 6 months ago
@IllusionaryUsername Ok, so was this supposed god created through the principle of creation as well? Why is it that it has to be intelligence behind something for it to actually work?
"Just visit planet Earth."
Ok you failed to understand what I meant. We are now on planet Earth, and we cannot observe any of the supposed gods. We can go to a factory to see things be created by humans, but we cannot observe any god create anything on Earth. It is a pitfall to come to the conclusion that you do.
SensualLeopardDesign 6 months ago
@SensualLeopardDesign
Planet Earth: No, I understood your point. It's just that you seem to be somewhere else.
"We can't see God, therefore he doesn't exist."
Evolution, not just biological evolution is absolute evidence of God's intelligence at work. And we've been observing evolution for how long now?
IllusionaryUsername 6 months ago
@IllusionaryUsername I'm here, obviously.
Why do you think it's God's intelligence at work?
SensualLeopardDesign 6 months ago
@IllusionaryUsername Not sure if youre being serious or mocking the bozos. If youre serious: do you understand even the first thing about natural selection?
nextpkfr 5 months ago
@dorsk188
Do you also question the existence of those who created computers and their evolution which is caused by human intelligence? Of course not. But if you were consistent in your illogical beliefs, you should.
IllusionaryUsername 7 months ago
@IllusionaryUsername "Do you also question the existence of those who created computers and their evolution which is caused by human intelligence?" You really answered your own question there. Of course no one questions the intelligence of the human creators, since they can actually be observed while creating computers. It's obvious that humans made computers. Just visit a factory. It's not that easy with your god though. That's the problem that debunks your watchmaker analogy.
SensualLeopardDesign 6 months ago
@dorsk188
A painting is an IRREFUTABLE evidence of a painter. No it's not! We can't see the painter so it must have magically painted itself!
LOL
IllusionaryUsername 7 months ago
@IllusionaryUsername Your painter argument is also flawed since a painting is not the same as lifeforms. We also know, because we can observe, that paintings are painted by humans. What we don't know, and cannot observe that a god have created life. Also, saying it magically created itself is wrong, because it is not about magic, it happened as a result of chemical properties and natural laws. You clearly don't know anything about evolutionary biology, and very little about chemics.
SensualLeopardDesign 6 months ago
@SensualLeopardDesign
Where did those natural laws come from? From nothing? Impossible.
In the beginning, there are only two possible choices: NOTHING or SOMETHING. Which one do you think it is?
IllusionaryUsername 6 months ago
@IllusionaryUsername What makes you think there was a beginning? And what makes you think "something" has to be an omnipotent, omniscient being?
SensualLeopardDesign 6 months ago
@SensualLeopardDesign
Beginning: Science along with religion makes me think that. The estimated age of the universe is around 13 billion years. I thought it was common knowledge that there was a beginning. People just have differing theories on how the universe began. And everything that has a beginning has an end.
Omniscient? No. Omnipotent? No. Fallible? Yes. Imperfect? Yes.
I do not believe in the orthodox Santa Claus version of God. The creator is always higher than his creation.
IllusionaryUsername 6 months ago
Need for intelligence: This is like asking why do you need intelligence to drive a car or write a computer program. I certainly haven't seen any evidence to the contrary. I have never seen any animal or human doing even the most simple things without intelligence. Also because of deterioration or entropy. The definition of entropy is as follows:
"The natural and irreversible tendency toward randomness and disorder in any system without an external source of energy applied with intelligence."
IllusionaryUsername 6 months ago
@IllusionaryUsername If we, for the sake of argument, say that there was a beginning where everything came from, I don't have to attribute it to an intelligence. If we say that for example, God did it, where did God come from? Nothing? "Impossible." Please explain to me your logic behind that.
SensualLeopardDesign 6 months ago
@SensualLeopardDesign
God origin: Good question, I kind of set myself up for that one. If there wasn't a source at some point then the universe as we know it, would not exist at all. It's either SOMETHING or NOTHING. If this is circular logic, then the alternative (NOTHING) is even more illogical.
IllusionaryUsername 6 months ago
Creationists.... if you deny science, don't just pick and chose what sciences you deny/follow. If you're gonna deny one science, well firstly get rid of your computers and cell phones, cos those are made thanks to science (geology specifically as a prime example), then take off your clothes, as they are science, leave your house which stands thanks to an understanding of physics and go live in a cave somewhere like your 3000 year old Bronze Age philososphers did.
therelliksan 7 months ago
Do orthodox evolutionists ever stop to think what's behind natural selection?
IllusionaryUsername 8 months ago
@IllusionaryUsername Did you stop to think that the "natural" part of natural selection exactly answered that question? Nature.
If you want to believe that God is micromanaging every living thing and choosing which will die in which way, then enjoy the consequences. God chooses that this gram-positive mutant germ will die, but this one won't. He chooses this gazelle to evade a cheetah, but this one won't. He chooses this child with sickle-cell anemia will die of malaria, but this one won't...
dorsk188 7 months ago
@dorsk188
And what's behind nature? Obviously, there must be a driving force behind evolution. Are you trying to tell me that life magically evolved without a shred of intelligence and consciousnesses? Without a driving force everything would fall to entropy. That is just a fact of life.
Of course God is not directly micromanaging every single living thing. We use our God given intelligence and free will to manage our own lives, causing evolution.
IllusionaryUsername 7 months ago
@IllusionaryUsername You say "obviously", but I don't think it means what you think it means. I never appealed to magic. You believe there's a magic man behind it all, not me. The universe IS gaining in entropy and will eventually reach a state of max entropy known as heat death. We're just not there yet. Every bit of energy on Earth is offset by an increase in entropy in the sun. Earth is not a closed system, you twit.
You say "fact", but I don't think it means what you think it means.
dorsk188 7 months ago
@dorsk188
You say magic never appealed to you yet you believe in a magical evolution without cause. Logically speaking there must be a cause behind pretty much everything. You're the cause of your comments. To believe otherwise is ludicrous.
I wasn't talking about the end of the universe. Until then humans and other life forms will continue to evolve to a higher state of consciousness.
IllusionaryUsername 7 months ago
Got to love the people they bring for both sides:
Bob Bobstein, PhD and Professor of theology at Berkeley, for evolution.
Jim Jimberg, guy who likes to talk, for creationism.
Gerbilmeister 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
At 2:24 to 2:40 his argument is false. We are held responsible to governmental laws, and also to each other. For all those who doubt that, try being a punk, and see if you don't get beat down, or enjoy a sleepover with all your buddies in prison.
And not only that, we hold to a code of goodness, for which we don't need some supposed 'holy' book to tell us about.
Comp1337e 9 months ago
Comment removed
Comp1337e 9 months ago
Let me give you a something to think about.
Norse mytology and greek mythology contains the same amount of "proof" for how the earth came to be as the bible. Wich is some 3-4 thousands of years old tales that was wroten down. Why is it then that people think that nether the norse or greek mythology gods are considred real if God is?
evolution is not a religion. anyone who would claim it to be dosen't know what defines religion.
Subiren 9 months ago 4
4:15, Merna is so hot
mjn132 9 months ago
how the fuck can ppl be arguing that evolution isnt real.. FUCK OFF RELIGIOUS DUMBASS CLOWNS. Prech creationism in church and not schools.. And btw I believe in the alien-"theory" more than creationism.
colbtucount 10 months ago
3:31 there is einsteinian religion. that's pantheism baby I like that guy . For some reason I want to go to Berkeley university.
Hereticofreason 11 months ago
wow, don't really know how to respond to these people.
s4stem 11 months ago
why the fuck is a CONCEPT being taught in a SCIENCE class? Speculation and superstition is NOT science, I can't believe they passed it.. wow.
Petey0707 11 months ago
There was a period in human history when religion wasn't holding us back like this and scientific discovery was respected. In recent years, the politicization of religion has effectively spun us around - America in particular - to a Bronze Age belief system. That serious scientists have to waste time arguing with Creationist dunderheads is a crime of the highest order.
GodlessAndHappy1 1 year ago
I've heard some forms of intelligent design theories that sounded decent, but that was from a person (i dont remember his name) who was a scientist before he became a priest. He believes in the big bang theory, evolution and all that stuff, but he feels that because the laws of physics are so complex that any slight difference would make our entire existence impossible, he believes that there was some sort of creator behind it and not just by chance, but he still believes in evolution
tocko92 1 year ago
Comment removed
Petey0707 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@tocko92 Yes but there are also theories that we're not the only universe and the laws of physics are applied differently in accordance to alternate realities or dimensions, of course this is just speculation with sound theoretical physics behind it, but I'll take that rather than godidit.
Petey0707 11 months ago
I love Eugenie Scott's voice. The sound of her voice just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.
Godlesspanther 1 year ago
@Godlesspanther Indeed. And that shot of her looking down with the sign over her? She should have said...
"Eugenie Scott. Don't fuck with me."
Defalto 1 year ago
this is the war of two religions God (imaginary friend) vs Evolution (fairy tail for adults) yeah evolution is not real science... if you believe other wise check this out Darwin faked evidence for evolution and every time a new evidence for evolution is refuted by creationism they look for new ones.. why didn't P & T had a debate between two people.. they manipulate the program and edit it for our entertainment.. and yeah i like the program and evolution is bullshit... religion bullshit..
telectronicguy 1 year ago
@telectronicguy Evolution is a theory in a Scientific Sense and also a fact. Geologists, biologists, astronomers, etc.. all agree that evolution is a very real thing that's been occurring for hundreds of millions of years. The theory is sound with all these different fields which have given independent studies that agree with each other and prove the theory true. P&T aren't editing anything, creationism is superstition without a doubt, case closed, it does Not belong in a science class.
Petey0707 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@telectronicguy Evolution is a theory in a Scientific Sense and also a fact. Geologists, biologists, astronomers, etc.. all agree that evolution is a very real thing that's been occurring for hundreds of millions of years. The theory is sound with all these different fields which have given independent studies that agree with each other and prove the theory true. P&T aren't editing anything, creationism is superstition without a doubt, case closed, it does Not belong in a science class.
Petey0707 11 months ago
5 people are creationists
Nelladagar 1 year ago
If you describe yourself as a creationist scientist, your credentials are immediately void. Being a creationist means to try and find evidence to support already set conclusions written by ancient men. What a load of garbage.
CRISNCHIPS12398 1 year ago
Go outside, pick up a rock and run an experiment on it to find out how old it is, chance is you fill find out it's way older than 4-6k years old. Did you guys know that about 60 or 50% of all americans believe that the world is not older than like 4-6k years old? Can you believe it? Becouse I sure can't. That is the kind of stuff that reeeaaally makes me worry about the future of mankind. We have to turn this trend around.
Ayanami1000 1 year ago
Human definition is everything.
jaymaster007 1 year ago
Simple as this: Evolution has applications in medicine. When somebody goes to the doctor, they should be asked if they believe in evolution or not, if they don't, any type of medical benefits that are explained by knowledge from evolution (like antibiotics), should be denied to them.
Diabolojr 1 year ago
I'm glad I belong to a religion that isn't threatened by Science and that we can happily exist with the teachings of Science and our own spiritual believes side by side.
AuberonDraenenWen 1 year ago
I love the stab at Raëlism lol
CinnaMint 1 year ago
are religious people really serious with their arguments against atheists?...i mean they cant really believe this shit can they?...people there is no ghosts behind it ....its all natural..goodness...love...immortality..its all there in the physical world....you dont need to believe in ghosts...like the spirit of christmas...people its not a real spirit..its a feeling same as god...its a feeling ...not an ACTUAL ENTITY!!!....please wake up...and be free!
arkee71 1 year ago
Darwin believing in religion *laughs* WOW what a retard! Holy shit, this guy should not be allowed to re produce!
TheAngryOtaku 1 year ago 2
Okay people, this is why you have to educate yourselves. We have to pick up the slack of others in our nation.
crazysoccerman14 1 year ago
NECK DOWN.. The ignorant masses and their 2000 year old mythological dead god they nailed to a stick...a STICK
captcrack 1 year ago
If that school district is going to teach creationism or it's slightly different version called ID, then we should teach all the creation myths, including the ones that the students think of as the class happens. Whether it be an ant masturbating and spooging out galaxies or a celestial cow pie. Teach the controversy damn it!
mistereveready 1 year ago
@mistereveready
omfg that was hilarious
An and spooging out galaxies?! Genius!
crazysoccerman14 1 year ago
People who want Creationism in school obviously dont know the first thing about science.
I mean if you want you kids to believe the Earth was created in 7 days then take they ass to church. Thats what its there for. School is for Knowledge. Church is for Religion.
But I am offended that they did not acknowledge my religion of the Great Spaghetti Monster!
teddybruscie 1 year ago
The rest of the civilised world is laughing at you america.
kilmindaro3 1 year ago
@kilmindaro3 You said it. With arabs, america is processing through stoneage or something.
DeterminationForever 1 year ago
Let's forget creationism and lets teach some Zeusnism. Theorys about Zeus, Poseidon, Hades etc. But... the question is; do we have any evidence about them? No. We dont have any kind of evindence about christianitys god neither.
DeterminationForever 1 year ago
God damn rednecks... Their IQ is like 10
DeterminationForever 1 year ago
fuck creationism and anyone who actually believes that stupid bullshit because apparently god wasted his fucking time on your stupid ass
harmon6708 1 year ago 23
@harmon6708 I think creationists are proof of evolution, there the last stage from caveman to regular human i call them
dumbass erectus LOL
Dracofangstudios 4 months ago 13
@Dracofangstudios LOL
TheAstro30 3 months ago
You morons argueing all discust me, it was clearly the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
403766 1 year ago
lol fuck, americans are dumb..,super power.. only because they dont take care of there people..shame on you all
MrMooseheadbeer 1 year ago
There's millions of things to believe about the matter, Creationism and Evolutionism are just two most popular things. I think giant monsters made out of bread puked us out of their mouths and left us here. Not really, but I could. I'd call it Donutism. If I was crazy, I'd go to court and express my opinion. I would then be burned at a stake by rioters using pitchforks and torches. These rioters would be Christians.
AnosonTaryrm 1 year ago
'You say evolution is a theory, do you feel the same about the THEORY of gravity because i would very much like for you to float the fuck away'
dumbacrew 1 year ago 26
@dumbacrew you dont even have to point out the lack of understanding of a scientific theory, just point out evolution doesn't explain how life started, its what comes after the hypotheses of Abiogenesis, all though they have proven many times over that they can spawn life, i am unsure if they have done anything to bump it up to a theory. but if they argue over that they just want to argue so just lay down the pimp hand or walk away
majikninja07 1 year ago
@majikninja07 yeah you raise a good point. "Never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
dumbacrew 1 year ago
@dumbacrew dude gravity is a scientific law, not a theory.
TheDonandMurphshow 8 months ago
@TheDonandMurphshow there are Newton's laws of motion, but science has the theory of gravity, not the law of gravity.
Herv3 8 months ago
This makes me so fucking angry. Scientific theories may not be correct but they offer the most logical reason and have years of research and evidence. Religious theories have non of this. And even if science somehow proved evolution was wrong they would hold their hands up and admit it whereas religion is pretty much the denial of observation.
dumbacrew 1 year ago 2
@dumbacrew religion is stupid.
supersmash43 1 year ago
When are these people going to get that if a given idea is scientifically verified and valid, it will be a part of our scientific knowledge base?
Neanderthalcouzin 1 year ago
Where the fuck to these religious nuts get off by equating Christianity with Creationism, it doesn’t. The Vatican (surprisingly given their idiotic view on issues like, contraception and gays) stated that "The faithful should heed modern science and to guard against religion crossing over to fundamentalism if it ignores scientific reasoning." Creationists are merely a Christian cult. And it suits them to be seen to be speaking for everyone.
SakkakuKadmon 1 year ago
@SakkakuKadmon Creationists are Christians that have actually read the bible and follow it.
manusdextra 1 year ago
@manusdextra That is one view, mine is that Creationists are Christians that read the bible under a particular kind of instruction, which leads to ideas that are easily proved wrong by science. And that by holding on to those beliefs, tooth and nail, miss, devalue or drive smart people away, from some really valuable information. But then that’s just my view.
SakkakuKadmon 1 year ago
@manusdextra Correction: Creationist are hypocritical Christians that have read the Bible and only follows certain aspects of the bible more literally then other. There is a passage that says something like this "If you have faith in god, you can drink harmful liquids (poison) and still be in good condition", I don't think any creationist are going to be willing to test their faith.
zzzIdividedbyzerozzz 1 year ago
@zzzIdividedbyzerozzz There is also a passage that instructs people to cut off their own hands if the hands cause them to be sinful. I'd love to see some Creationists take that verse literally.
manusdextra 1 year ago
@manusdextra No, that's not what the passage means, lol. Its like a parable, what Jesus meant was that if you have a friend who causes you to sin or to go against God's will, then you should cut yourself from him so as to remain pure and walk in the path of God and righteousness.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@theaccousticaddict It doesn't say there that it is a parable. Seems to me like an almighty, all-knowing god might possibly have the intelligence to inspire his minions to put down a warning. After all, what kind of god would want his own creatures to cut off all their limbs because he made them in a way that they were prone to sin? Oh right, the Christian god.
manusdextra 1 year ago
@manusdextra Ive told you what that passage of the bible means, but you,ve still refused to take my answer, you still want to stick with what you know. How can God ask someone to literally to cut off his arm or leg just to get rid of sin? that makes no sense, sin is not in this parts, but comes from from the heart. Here Jesus is saying that we should stay clear of sinners who might cause us to sin and go against God's wishes, i dont care if you believe me or not, but that's just the truth.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@theaccousticaddict "I lack imagination and logic? you are the one who believes you are an animal." I don't believe it. I think it because it accords with the facts. I have repeatedly used logic to explain why evolution is a logical necessity. Imagination comes into it because you have to be able to visualise small changes over a large time-scale adding up to big changes (not a lot of imagination, but some.) Again - why is it bad to be an animal?
lewisrain 1 year ago
@theaccousticaddict "variation+natural selection+hereditary would prove evolution, but natural selection never happened". Wow! So I just have to prove that there are pathogens, or competition for resources, or competition for mates, or predators? I just have to prove that a rabbit which runs faster than other rabbits may well be more likely to escape from predators? I sincerely hope so, but I know that it may not be that straightforward...
lewisrain 1 year ago
@manusdextra
Actually, as a former christian, I can tell you that the hand cut off/ limb cut off thing is indeed a parable. Most things in the bible used rather graphic stories to get their point across, but rest assure, most were just metaphor or parables. Then again, I'm more of a deist now, not a Christian so much any more. Except for Christmas church services. For some reason, I cannot bring myself to skip those. Something....peaceful about them I guess....
AndrewDeLong 1 year ago
@AndrewDeLong I believed the same thing when I was a Christian. If most of those stories are parables, who decides which ones aren't? Who decides what verse should be followed and what verse should be dismissed? People do, fallible people. And there goes your immaculate scripture, right out of the window.
manusdextra 1 year ago
@manusdextra
Lol. I never called it immaculate. But there are sections of it that simply make sense to at least hear out. I'm talking of course about the basic don't kill, steal, cheat, lie....ones. Then again, those tenants are pretty much found in every religion that has ever existed (saved for the monogamy...which is sort of a Christian ideal...and maybe a few other religions).
And like I said, I'm a former Christian gone deist. To me, God is not definable by a book.
AndrewDeLong 1 year ago
@AndrewDeLong Of course you didn't, you're not a Christian. Christians call it immaculate, and that's how I've come to believe most of them are mentally handicapped.
Why are those commandments found everywhere? They are founded on logic and define the social contract. Many religions take pride in being the first to formulate these rules, but that is of course absurd. Many religious people also ask "If you don't believe in god, where do you get your morals?". Same answer as before: Intelligence.
manusdextra 1 year ago
@manusdextra
Well, like I said, I believe in a FORM of God. But as you said, I don't derive my morals from him / her / it. I would be insane to think that any being, if one does exist, would be so fundamentally simplistic (that would be Occam's Razor brought to a new extreme). Much like the ant being wholly unable to comprehend us, I doubt very much our ability to comprehend whatever the hell it is I call God.
AndrewDeLong 1 year ago
@manusdextra do you think your religion is better than other religion? and why? Most religious people will tell you that their religion is the best..why? Humans are no better than sheeps
tkathryyn 1 year ago
@tkathryyn I have no religion, so no. I think all religion is worthless and ultimately dangerous. I'm surprised you didn't realize this after reading my comments so far.
manusdextra 1 year ago
People need to realize that you can accept scientific fact an still hang on to your religion.
Shadowdyce11 1 year ago
freedom of religion!!!
i dont push my beliefs so dont push urs!
brandonmaciel333 1 year ago
im happy i dont have faith in any kind of religion anymore. in my opinion its a burden to the human race as we know it, you go to war over it, you fail to agree with the faiths of other people. a ridiculous amount of money goes into funding it. i hate the fact that the human race isn't going anywhere, and has to resort to living in its own dreams because it cant face the real world around it.
bananasquads 1 year ago 31
@bananasquads
Hmm....I'm a deist, and have no issue with other religions. Then again, I don't really have a religion. I just believe in a higher power in general. Much like an agnostic, only a bit more so. Still, this does not stop me from my pursuit in the sciences. It does not even hinder my 100% belief in things such as a godless big bang, or quantum theory. As I see it, your issue is not with all religions. Just organized, advancement stifling religion. In that, I can sympathize.
AndrewDeLong 1 year ago
@bananasquads that along with greed is the root of all evil in this world
phildirt3 1 year ago
This guy is a total phony, his bs southern drawl is so typical of right wing jerkoffs who admire Palin & Bush
PanzerKampfWagen29 1 year ago
No need to sleep over it. God has a plan? did got not see this coming? Peace and Harmony huh?....not the strongest attributes of human nature. How do you know we're not supposed to destroy this planet? Maybe while destroying this planet we will find a new one to live on, you never know. Gotta be open to more than just your own personal opinion. If i wasnt open to other opinions I wouldn't have responded to you at all
DynamicTheRapper 1 year ago
@DynamicTheRapper, Yes peace and harmony, but all this was meant to be until satan tempted Adam and Eve into sinning against God, that's when everything changed.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
So, Christianity is BS?
Clarissa1026 1 year ago
The old rating system was better. Anyone?
beinzee 1 year ago
@beinzee Haha I "like" your comment.
phantomspellchecker 1 year ago
Dragonflys can hover,fly backward,forward etc. Scientists have found that the dragonfly uses out-of-phase flapping in order to save energy. Engineers hope to apply this to future versions of micro flapping vehicles. Another example of humans learning something from the Master Designer.
geezersinc 1 year ago
Is stealing wrong?
beinzee 1 year ago
so how do you explain dinosours in 6000 years ? i would love to here that one
funkster22657 1 year ago 2
@funkster22657, Alright, first of all, there's no place in the bible that has it that the earth is 6000 years old, so i dont know what you are talking about.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
If someone found the crashed space ship or ancient laboratory with the remains of the dead Creator/Designer and his notes and plans, then the ID people would triumph,
PanzerKampfWagen29 1 year ago
@danielwerre My final reply to you is this: Read Romans 8:5-8 It is short but profound. Adios.
beinzee 1 year ago
I read it. I never found it profound. It just sounds like something preached by some brainwashing cult leader. The Theory of evolution has flaws. But those flaws are just missing pieces to a puzzle. I'm more inclined to take conclusions put together by scientists over stories written by people sitting outside their tents some 5000 years ago.
br00k39 1 year ago
@br00k39 Evolution has no flaws, evolution is a flaw itself, it is fake, a hoax, it never happened, it,s not happening, and it will never happen no matter the millions of fossils evolutionists produce (which by the way most of it are actually man made).
Evolution is a disgrace to humanity, word of advice to you my friend: Dont let the devil make a monkey out of ya, you are a human being, not an animal, stop demeaning yourself to control and manipulation.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@theaccousticaddict Don't just say it's a flaw, prove it. Your "arguement" is no different then the rest of the agenda driven creationists who say "it's false, because we say it's false, and if we say it it's the truth". Wheather you like it or not, man is another animal. Sometimes better most of the time worse than our four legged counterparts. We're flesh and bone, just like they are. Enjoy living in your fantasy world.
br00k39 1 year ago
@br00k39, Alright fine, first of all, evolution has never been witnessed or seen since the beginning of human civilization. Secondly, transitional fossils have not been completely found to fill up the evolutionary, there's still gaps left to occupy, and for years now, evolutionists have not been able to find this transitional fossils to fill in this gap, some have gone to the extent of manufacturing fake ones, but the truth is that there is no transitional fossils of sort. should i continue?
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@br00k39 Alright fine, first of all, evolution has never been witnessed or seen since the beginning of human civilization. Secondly, transitional fossils have not been completely found to fill up the evolution chain, there's still gaps left to occupy, and for years now, evolutionists have not been able to find this transitional fossils to fill in this gap, some have gone to the extent of manufacturing fake ones, but the truth is that there is no transitional fossils of sort. should i continue?
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@theaccousticaddict I'm not convinced. You just prove to me that that there are still missing pieces to the puzzel that we still have yet to discover.
"evolution has never been witnessed or seen since the beginning of human civilization. " But the story of Genisis has right? Like I said I'm more likely to believe what theories scientists have put together, than something that reads like typical mythology.
br00k39 1 year ago
@br00k39, So in other words, you,d rather believe that you evolved from a fish than believe that you where specially made and created right? think, does that make sense? From the two which makes more sense? which one is more real? That you evolved from a monkey?I have a felling that you dont think before coming to a conclusion.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@theaccousticaddict Yes I would, and yes it does
"I have a felling that you dont think before coming to a conclusion." You realize you're actually talking about yourself right there, right?
br00k39 1 year ago
@br00k39 No am talking about you mate. From my own point of view, its very unrealistic for an Ape to evolve into man, for life to start in the sea. Common sense can help us debunk this stuff.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@theaccousticaddict wow you don't give up do you. The only thinking you seem to do is whatever your church and the book of fairy tales you call your bible tells you to think. I grew up having the bible shoved down my throat. When I studied greek and roman mythology, I got the same feel from those stories as i did from the stories in the bible. Why should I accept the stories in the bible to be anymore real?
br00k39 1 year ago
@br00k39 We all have the freedom of choice, you,ve choosed not to believe in God, i choose to believe in him cos of who he really is. You are of the world, i am of the spirit of God. The bible is more of a spiritual symbolism than physical and clearly, you dont know about this, you reading the bible is like an illiterate going through the pages of a book without being able to understand what's in it.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@theaccousticaddict WOW, if that doesn't reak of condesending douchebaggery, I don't know what does. I'll leave you to enjoy living in your cultist bullshit fantasy world. "You are of the world" I'll take that as a compliment as to me it means I live in reality while you chose to live in delusion. And since you have a lame ass no-matter-what-I'm-right answer to everything. Why don't you explain why you sound like a bigger retard with every message you post!
br00k39 1 year ago
@br00k39 Lol, how ignorant are you? Just becuase you have no knowledge and understanding od something doesnt mean you have to classify it as delusional, stupid or crap. You,d sound alot more smarter if you said "I dont know about what you know" rather than condemning it immediately. Most people out there who are spiritual, who are Christians, Muslims or Islamic are not stupid. Its just that they understand spirituality and know what is in there. You dont know, stop making a fool of yourself.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@theaccousticaddict "Just becuase you have no knowledge and understanding od something... etc"
Refer to your own words regarding evolution. You don't understand even the most basic principles from what information you've given us. Pot calling the kettle black?
I see no reason why God would be inconsistent with what we have seen scientifically (we HAVE seen evolution by natural selection -- peppered moths, for example). I'm not an atheist, mind you. I am however anti-stupid.
FanshiiKingyo 1 year ago
@FanshiiKingyo The truth is: 1) Evolution never occoured, 2) Man has no animal ancestor, not an ape, not a monkey, man was man right from the beginning and ape and monkeys where still apes and monkeys. 3) We did not evolve into smarter and sphisticated beings, we where created this way.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@theaccousticaddict I'm willing to listen. What empirical evidence can you provide to support your conjecture? Please don't quote the bible -- while it might be your reasoning, for most people, it's not a good enough reason. Don't quote any "scientist" or tell me to "Google it" -- give me your personal, scientific (or simply rational) synopsis regarding why evolution didn't occur and how we were made. Although I am open to the idea of God, just saying "God did it" proves nothing but ignorance.
FanshiiKingyo 1 year ago
@FanshiiKingyo Why is it that all explanations must be made scientifically? Is science the only means of explanation? Is Google the only search engine in the world? No. What prove do you need? That God is real? Well, he is. The bible tell us so, asking me to explain stuff to you without the bible is like asking a student to carry out an assignment without reading for it.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@theaccousticaddict I don't know where to begin with that. I do agree with you, though: not everything needs a scientific explanation. But that mindset doesn't fly with anyone. I have actually read the bible from cover-to-cover (I'm Catholic), but I, like 80% of Christians, don't condone a literal interpretation of the creation of man. I believe God and evolution are perfectly compatible. Why not interpret genesis as a metaphor for evolution?
More to come in another reply. Hard word count.
FanshiiKingyo 1 year ago
@FanshiiKingyo, I dont mean to be rude, but there's a difference between Christianity and Catholicism. Catholics tend to worship Mary more than Jesus himself which is wrong. Mary wasnt a God, an Angel, or had supernatural powers to perform miracles, she was just like any other. Bowing down to satues is also wrong, the bible forbide it, even though it is that of Jesus, God or Mary, its wrong.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@theaccousticaddict Well, it's incorrect to refer to "Christianity" as a religion, because it ain't. It's a syllogism. Catholicism falls under the branch of "Christianity" as do baptists, lutherans, anglicans etc. Catholics were also the original Christians, as well as the largest Christian denomination (despite corruption).
The bible does contain some accurate scientific knowledge, but Greeks worked out the earth was round far prior to Christianity (along with everything else you mentioned).
FanshiiKingyo 1 year ago
@FanshiiKingyo I qiute disagree with you if you say that Catholism is falls under the branch of Christianity, They tend to worship and bow down to Mary more than Jesus and God himself. Now, Mary wasnt a God, she wasnt an angel, and there's no place in the bible that asks us to worship Mary, Even Jesus himself never aksed his disciples to worship Mary, Mary was just a girl that God used to bring his son to the world.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@theaccousticaddict You can disagree with it all you want, any dictionary or encyclopedia you pick up will say otherwise. Analytically and definitively speaking, its true. You can't argue definition. The fact that you disagree is an opinion, don't present it as fact.
I'll tell you who's more Christlike: people who leave the confines of ass-kissing in Church and actually do something for mankind. You know, people who fund-raise, help the mentally disabled, do mission work... But I digress.
FanshiiKingyo 1 year ago
@FanshiiKingyo Christians do mission work as well my friend, talking about fund raising and all that, yes we do so as well. How about the governments that spend zillions of dollars on war machines, guns and weapons of mass destruction instead of using that money to help the poor and the needy? Just bcos we are Christians doesn't mean we have all the money in the world you know, but we try our best.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@theaccousticaddict "evolution is not the truth, its just a theory developed so that unbelievers can have a means of explaining God's creation without including God". Ah. So there we have it. You're a paranoid conspiracy nut. You're wrong: nobody developed the theory of evolution to get rid of God - if you think the facts threaten God then it's your faith which is weak, not the theory of evolution, which most Christians agree with, and which has more evidence for it than the theory of gravity!
lewisrain 1 year ago
@FanshiiKingyo,Mary is not to be worshipped, but yet Catholics do, which is so very wrong, Mary is not the savious of mankind, Jesus is, That's why he died for our sins, It is only through Jesus that we can get to God not through Mary, so i dont know where Mary comes into the picture ofworship. That alone defiles the bible and its doctrines, and yet you tell me that Catholics are more Christians than us.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@FanshiiKingyo The bible warns against bowing down to moulden and careved images and worshipping them, but yet, atholics bow down to moulden and carved images of Mary and Jesus which is so very wrong, that itself is paganism and defiles the doctrines of the bible. God or Jesus never said in the bible that we should make carved images to worship. Now tell me, who is more Christ like? Uss or the catholics.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@theaccousticaddict Oh, and I don't intend on responding to you again (although I appreciate your civility), because clearly your understanding about your own religion and it's denominations is lacking. I don't think the worship of Mary is anywhere near as extreme as you make it out to be. You're entitled to your own opinion, but until you realize that your opinion does not equate to fact, no one can expect a meaningful discussion from you.
FanshiiKingyo 1 year ago
@FanshiiKingyo Spammer.
FixedNewsChannel 1 year ago
@FixedNewsChannel I think the term you're looking for is "TL;DR".
FanshiiKingyo 1 year ago
@FanshiiKingyo Hahahaha, perfect.
FixedNewsChannel 1 year ago
@theaccousticaddict "Selective pressure does not exist". So predators don't exist, fast-moving prey doesn't exist, or heat or altitude or pathogens or hard-to-reach food? Extraordinary claim. "Are you saying that humans are in transitional form?" Yes. Of course. "So evolution is the slight differences in living things?" Yes, slight differences building up over thousands of generations. Natural selection is the ratchet. What is so hard about this?!
lewisrain 1 year ago
@theaccousticaddict Second part of my discussion. What if, theoretically, 2000 years ago, I wrote a book claiming *I* was the daughter of God and it caught on and circulated. Other books were added. It survived the ages, and I became the center of a major world religion. What makes Jesus any more credible than FanshiiKingyo for the son of God?
All I'm trying to raise is an idea. If you want people to take you seriously, you have to approach differently... You really just dodged my question...
FanshiiKingyo 1 year ago
Ultimately no one knows even if they may think they do. And that's fine. After all it should be about living in the right questions. Not just having an answer for everything.
br00k39 1 year ago
@br00k39 You're absolutely correct.
FanshiiKingyo 1 year ago
@FanshiiKingyo. What makesJesus more credible is that through him, mankind was saved, he offered his life for us, that which no one, not even FanshiiKingyo cant do. The bible told us the earth was round, told us about the millions of stars in the skies, told us about the asteroids (In the bible reffered to as the falling star from above), So if your book able to tell us about this stuff 2000 years ago without the aid of science or any advanced knowledge, then i would really value your book.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@theaccousticaddict The bible also says slavery is OK, that a woman must be a virgin on her wedding day or she will be stoned to death and many more bronze age fallacies.
In other words, the bible is a book full of myth and superstition based on a time gone by and of previous sun worshipping and paganisms. I pity you for not having the mental intellect to overcome such a tale.
FixedNewsChannel 1 year ago
@FixedNewsChannel, Yes, a woman should be married a virgin. Just bcos the worls is so now very corrupt that's why this seems impossible for you to comprehend, but the truth is that it is more blessed to offer yourself only to your wife or husband, that's why he is your wife or husband, not to sleep around, giving your self to others before to your husband or wife.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@FixedNewsChannel You say the bible is based on a time gone by, well you are wrong, there;s still sun worshipping and paganism going on today, the worship od moulden and carved images is paganism, the bible forbids that. The past is the foundation on which the present and future stands.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@FixedNewsChannel Olympics was originated in Greece, and was ussually played to honor the god Zeus, but it is still being played today, worldwide. Football and golf was originated by ancient chinese but still is being played today worldwide.All what we do now has been done beofre in the past, the only difference is that with the aid of technology, its being done more swiflty, morden and different, but that doesnt change the fact that it is still football or it is still Olympics.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@theaccousticaddict So in other words, you have no valid argument against evolution, nor do you proof that your mythological god is real as opposed to the 1000s of other mythological gods out there. You're either stupid or brainwashed.
rgmztxy 1 year ago
@br00k39 You are of the world cos you have no understanding of spirituality. You only know God through what people have told you about him. You are of the world cos you are carnal minded and understand not spiritual things. You see, as nature is balanced by good and evil, so is life balanced by spirituality and physicality. All those who are wise both physically and spiritually know this for a fact. I dont have anything against you for not knowing, but stop saying crap about stuff you dont know
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@br00k39 I still maintain, you are of the world, and i am of the spirit of God, am not boasting but, i may be in this world but i am not of the world, i am of God and above human and satanic destruction. You have been decieved and i dont blame you for it, but all i pray is that may you be saved through the abundance grace of God.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago
@theaccousticaddict and I still maintain that you talk like a brainwashed delusional cultist, and that you simply don't want to believe that there's scientific evidence that defies your fairy tale beliefs, and I simply just don't care what you think. Besides, are you still wasting your time on youtube trying to convert (opps sorry, I meant 'save') people. Go get laid or find a more positive hobby.
br00k39 1 year ago
@br00k39 Of course there's scientific evidence, i never said there wasnt, ive seen fossils unearthed by scientists and evolutionists, but what any one has failed to prove to me is how exaclty this fossils prove evolution, i mean, just bcos two things look like each other doesnt mean they actually evolved or came from each other.
theaccousticaddict 1 year ago