The British don't have one document called "The British Constitution" Parliament is supreme and is not obliged to consult the people on any law. Hence there is no requirement in the UK to hold a referendum on Lisbon. Irelands Consitution called: Bunreacht na hEireann requires a referendum on any treaty relating to national sovereignty. That is why a referendum on the Lisbon treaty was a legal requirment.
Well done Ireland!!!! Keep saying NO, because we have an absolute ass running Britain, wo signed everything away, including our Gold reserves and didn't tell his people a thing, a democracy?? More like a joke! Get this idiot out.
The British Constitution is what ensures our civil liberties. It is the foundation of our democratic society.
It is law.
On the 1st January 2009, the final EU treaty went through.
This treaty, unbeknown to the majority of the general public,
abolished the British Constitution.
The UK is now under the authority of the EU Constitution, meaning that 100% of all government power is held by those same unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.
« The EU can lawfully suppress political criticism of its institutions and of leading public figures « (European Court of Justice ruling 2001).
The European Charter of Fundamental Rights (art.2,passage 2) states that LETHAL force (live ammo) can be used during « rioting,civil upheaval & during war ».
The same Charter of RIGHTS does not mention ANYWHERE the right of EU citizens to vote.
Perhaps they forgot.
Remind them in the European elections in June 2009.
Hey we are in a recession, why the hell would we want the burden of trying to support the North, No way the Republic could do that....
Britain can keep spending millions of pounds a year to sustain the North as part of the U.K thank you....
Sure I've been up North loads of times, the troubles are pretty much long gone and it's basically the same as the South except you have to change currency... Big whoop...
Frankly, we would be screwed as an economy if we got back the North...
Eh1 So having a police force makes you a fascist. The irish would not have lost their tricolour or idenity by this vote. The NWO is neo nazi myth mentioned in mein kampf. Where jhe complains of the jewish satrapy taking over the planet.
Like the European parliment handing over all our digital information, credit card details and transit movements over to the US authorities. This is just another step towards the NWO and Nazi faschism.
It was not the EU it was national governments that did that but as usual you manage the incredible euro skeptic trick of blaming the eu for everything.
To zzxzqwq, your sudden silence speaks volumes, but even IF you were right about ANYTHING, you're still a loathsome fool, is it not vitally important that you wise few correct us ignorant masses. Otherwise, in your own words, we will "destroy Europe".
To anyone else, an apology for taking up so much space in these comments, just couldn't abide the above odious virulent Euro-fascist actually trying to defend his nonsense.
kyotorocks You are an offensive bully. You are the fascist. You support Hitlers dream. He did not want a united europe. He told his officials to not work on such plans. You are an odious nazi bully boy who made these comments wihtout informing me. Take your nexo nazi scum views to the dustibin of history. Eisenhower and Churchill were right you are a pratt.
Do you understand what the word fascism means? I'd love to know quite how you're mis-understanding it!
You're not worth any more time, you have no point aside from "I'm right and anyone who disagrees supports Hitler". You really think constantly quoting "mien kampf" proves anything?.
You should also look up the word "odious". And then think about how often you've posted "paedo creep cunt" on youtube in the last 2 weeks.
You are a total dick. Hitler agreed witj you end of story. Everyone knows what the word Fascist means. My defintion includes those who seek to bring narrow minded nationalism back to destory and divide us. It is mein kampf. It prooves what Hitler reall thoguht rather the pretence where euroskeptics claim he was one of ours he was one of yours.
...and thus once again you delibrately avoid any reference to facts or any ideas besides "Hitler agreed with you". Well all I'm saying is I'm opposed to the particular organisation called the EU, which Hitler didn't oppose as he died before it all started.
Open your eyes a fraction and realise that "anti EU" means just that, not anti Europe or anti co-operation. It IS possible to believe in European unity, but think that the EU is a deceitful failiure.
Of course, you know this, but seem to get a kick out of being a wind up merchant. It's quite pathetic.
NB. "Fascism; a government system with complete power, or one seeking such, who forcibly suppresses opposition or criticism, and seeks to regiment industry, commerce etc, emphasizing an aggressive nationalism."
EU= single European government, seeking to harmonize industry, commerce etc, "no" is never taken as final, critics outcast and ostracized.
Hitler did not support integration like you. You are against integration, co-operation. Who does that remind me off Hmm Hitler. It is only a failure if the NAZIs win.
Actually, there is thin evidence that Hitler would not have supported a project like the EU, himself was into social engineering a society along the racial lines.
The EU does nothing which could be described as social engineering or gencoide. How can you even compare such a thing it is sick. The EU allows people freedom to go where ever they want in europe how is that social engineering. Where is the social enigneering. Let alone genocide
You are becoming very tedious, I'm fed up of talking about nazis, which have nothing to do with the EU. stop avoiding the issue.
I'm against the EU, which officially began with the European coal and steel community(ECSC), founded 1951. The nazis effectivly died in 1945 with the end of the war.
If you're going to defend the EU, fine, tell me why. But I've already said I'm in favour of Euro integration. You are being far more nationlistic than me.
For the last time, I don't think anything is satantic because I DON'T BELIEVE IN SATAN !!
I can see the quote from the "usual suspects" coming, but you really are in trouble if you're going to rely on film quotes to "prove" what your saying.
A conspiracy is people working together in secret to get what they want, on the surface lying and decieving. Of course this happens, it could almost be a definition of politics.
...person or group is against the EU, DOESN'T mean me and the other person or group agree on anything else, or even that we are against the EU for the same reasons.
7. Think about the fact that you seem to be against the Neocons in USA, as are the North Koreans/Iranians. How does THIS make YOU feel ?
8. Wonder about how effctive the EU sanctions have been against anyone, for example Zimbabwe at the moment.
Its ironic for you to keep quoting Hitler to show up others as Nazis.
I don't know many Nazi quotes, but one that may apply to the EU (not, I think, you directly) would be from joseph goebbels, something like "make the lie big, make it simple and keep repeating it and eventually everyone will believe it" or maybe it was "stop questioning it",
I'm not sure, I don't have much of an interest in Nazi culture. Do you have the quotes in front of you or are you reading from memory ? ;)
What are you on about I made no lie I quoted directly from Mein Kampf. You agree with Hitler you should read him as he is wanring of what not to believe.
Goebbals was not an important minister. Hitler was the leader and clearly was again co-operation between nations. The people who did the policy did not do what you pretend they did.
Well, racism is part of the western world. Besides, the Eu is going to use racism to improve their social engineering fabric of the new european society, mimicking the style of the US' melting pot.
Actually, supporting the EU is supporting a process based on racism.
Rubbish. The EU has noting to do with increased immigratiopn. Immigration to the UK and France happened because we had empires. Immigration within the EU is of white people so how is that causing racism. You are obviously a hater of european people so mind your own fucking business. :
Where did I speak of immigration? I underlined the very fact that the EU is on the road of social engineering a new european society in a similar way the US did through the melting pot.
I hope you know that the US weakness on the seas led them to build up chattel slavery, meaning they had no immigration to fuel the racist process.
The EU is at social engineering a new european society. It has nothing to do with with right of movement for people. As to destroying this right, the EU works wonders with plans like Odysseus, retainment rules and stuff like that...
The social engineering going on in Europe present days is the very same as in the US during the 19th melting pot: blending in people with hostile to each others history in one single new entity.
It is done on several levels, one is of course administrations which is done into one language, through work with high positions reserved to people born in this or that language (creating an incentive to blend in) etc...
You cannot repeat the same statements with no evidence. What social engineering. You cannot just say just like the USA when it is not like the USA. What do you mena work reserved for people in certain lanaguages where?
If you dont know about a topic, please refrain from speaking about it before investigating it.
In this kind of social engineering, the administrative power sector is used as a means of blending people in. I guess this is what the EU is doing when you have to apply to positions in the EU administration.
Mind to explain how the given example of reserving positions in the power apparatus to people of a given language is not an evidence of social engineering?
So let's see: the EU is into processing a social engineering like the US did through their melting pot stuff. Should come quickly as a conclusion that this happens within the european power apparatus like commission jobs and the rest.
So now this is clarified, please mind to explain how this is not an evidence of social engineering?
Look where in the fucking EU is this happening. Where name me the job the country and the position. You have no fucking example. The commission jobs are given to representatives of each nation how is that social engineeering it affects about 27 people. THERE IS NO SOCIAL ENGINEERING :
All it takes is to look up at the job offers made by the commission (or any branch of the european power apparatus). So again, I really doubt you are the slightest knowledgeable on this topic. You have not investigated the topic at best or at worst are denying what is going on. That is the way it is.
You are being idiotic. I know about thuis topic There are very few people employed in the EU. They are needed to do work. That is not social engineering in any way. In the old days monarchies ised to marry eachother. You have nothing to back up your argument.
Because social engineering would need to affect masses of sections of the population not a few 100 civil servants from each nation. How is few 100 people form the UK working in the EU parliament going to have any sort of major social impact on a nation 0f 60 million people.
Madness. They need to have employees form all over the union to translate So what. Thta is not social engineering it is few 100 people from each nation. You are an idiot.
I do know why the CAP exists, and would be happy to talk about it, but look at your very next sentence, "the critics of the EU are nazis end of story".
You said you don't think the CAP is perfect, I would go a lot further and am happy to state many examples of un acceptable fraud, not just a little but HUGE cases of corruption.
If you accept CAP is not perfect you must have some criticism of it, does this make you a nazi?
Yes and if you read my explanation you clealy see I was making the comment that devil worshipping neocons fixed the vote. Why do you missquote people all the fucking time. You are a typical euroskeptic who missreads people deliberately. NAZI
Democracy and the EU is something else entirely, but we already have enough threads going between the two of us here, lets leave that one till later eh ? ;)
I absolutley agree about Zimbabwae, something should of been done years ago, but the EU is similarly flawed, they should of stopped the French suppling Iraq with weapons for years.
Unfortunately the French know how to play the EU like their own private benefits system. Don't mis understand me, its right that French diplomats get the best deal for France they can, but the rest of us shouldn't tolerate it.
NATO included the tyranny's of Greece, Spain and Portgal while they were run by dictators. So it has nothing to do with stopping tyranny. The EU prevents war and esnures democracy. Greece and Turkey had a war over Cyprus while still members.
AND EURO-SCEPTICS DO NOT WANT TO DESTROY EUROPE. WE BELIEVE IN EUROPE, THATS WHY WE WANT THIS FRAUDULENT FAILED EXPERIMENT THAT IS THE EU TO STOP BEFORE IT DOES IRREPEARABLE DAMAGE TO THIS FINE CONTINENT !!!!
You are the nationalist, claiming superiority of a single land named Europe, intolerant of any criticism and scornful of any suggestion that you might be even a tiny bit mistaken.
No your ideas were tried before a weak divided europe leads to internal and external enemies trying to destroy or conquer it. This has beeen shown time and time before.
No, nothing on the scale of co-operation as the British commonwealth has ever been tried accross Europe.
And they are not my ideas, its what most people meant pre 1957 when they talked about European integration. It was a minority group who wanted supra-nationalism, which is what the EU is about.
There is no co-operation in the commonwealth. Be honesrt our commonwealth is a pile of bull shit. There is no co-operation at all. Zimbabwae was in the commonwealth it is waste of time. Except for the commonwelath games.
I know its deeply flawed, but the one desirable element it has thats lacking from the EU is that its voluntary, no country is forced to do anything they don't want. It is about co-operation, it maybe doesn't work so certainly, but with such a model we could have all the freedom of movement, free trade etc, almost all the benefits we supposedly get from the EU, only without the deception, the deceit that means the EU will never function as it pretends to, and as such never will.
Why would she not join this grand project for peace?
There are 2 main reasons for the lack of war between the big western countries since ww2;
1. NATO
2. Nuclear Warfare
How come USA, Russia, China, Britain, Germany, France haven't gone to war against each other for 50 years ? Nuclear weapons, not the EU, which most of the above are not even members of. The Eu hasn't even prevented war in Europe. (Bosnia, Kosovo etc,)
Nope France was not in NATO for a while. Bosnia is not in the EU. So you have destroyed your own argument. If they had been in the EU they would not have had a war.
Not everyone needs to be in either group for them to have an effect.
The EU did get involved in Bosnia, of course they were slow to do anything, and instinctivley supported Milosevic, you know the massive war criminal, but they were there.
But again you miss my point. The second world war more or less ended with the use of the nuclear bomb. This makes war so deadly as to effectively rule it out between those with the bomb. Hence no war between Russia and USA, the only superpowers..
Bosnia was niot part of the EU. So how is it the EU fault it went to war. There were many man7y wars after WW2. Such as the gulf war, the Iraq war, The Vietnam war, the Afghan war, the congo wars.
NATO included the tyranny's of Greece, Spain and Portgal while they were run by dictators. So it has nothing to do with stopping tyranny. The EU prevents war and esnures democracy. Greece and Turkey had a war over Cyprus while still members.
The EU did not support anymore yiou liar it was utterley nuertral. The tories supported Milosevic. You knw the independent nation of the UK. The EU had noting at all to do with Bosnia. It did not have powerful froeign polict then. DO NOT KEEP SPREADING VILE LIES.
I'm not saying the EU continued to support Milosevic, its just their first reaction was to support the established group, not support independence of minorities.
Of course they soon realised what an arsehole he was, and rightly had no more to do with him. But it was him they went to first, out of ignorance and in-efficiency.
I don't remember it by heart so I'll check and post later soas not to mis-inform, but the EU delegation DID go to Milosevic and offer un-offical sympathy, if not public support, not because they actually supported him, but as they were so determined to show "Europe speaking with one voice" that they reacted without bothering to check their facts first.
In 1970, the "Luxembourg Agreement" proposed "a single European foreign policy". In 1985 a treaty was signed committing all members to co-operate foreign policy.
Thus by 1991 the Commission had long been trying to take control of all Europe's foreign policy. When Slovenia and Croatia announced independence from the federal Yugoslavia and the troops were sent in to stop the rebellion, the EU was holding a European Council.
The council sent a "troika", BY AGREEMENT OF ALL MEMBER STATES....
...to mediate. The council's president was Mr Santer, he said "we have to try all means to save the (yugoslavian) federation".
The EU (or EC as it was called then) had agreed to give the federal government 700 million French ecus.
The EU couldn't oppose the federal government at the very moment they were building their own Federation. And so, far from ending the violence, their actions allowed the mass slaughter to move into Croatia.
Thye supported euroopean federation so what. What does that have to do with supporting Serbia abusing other nations. It was Serbian nationalism that nationalists supported.
You should read my comments more carefully, and stop making such assumptions about what I mean. The holocaust was all to do with humans, if anything it suggests there is no God, but what does that have to do with your ridiculous claim that "Satan fixed the vote". If Satan wants to finish the EU why would he do something so in-effectual as fix one lousy vote that the EU were always going to ignore anyway, why not conspire to give other countries a vote and "fix" those too...
Robert Schumann didn't even write "the Schumann plan", you really should read the book I mentioned and stop embarassing yourself.
You didn't answer many of my previous questions, but lets stick with one;
If what was to become the EU was all about securing peace in Europe why did Britain not join until 1972 ? Britain almost bankrupted herself fighting ww2, and didn't HAVE to get involved in the first place. She was a founder member of all other groups of international co-operation,
the first 50 yeawrs of 20th century so wars between a divided europe, this destroyed europe. The second half saw europe united. All european nations need to be part of that co-operation. Britian did join and spent most of the second half of the 20th century in the union.
I'm critical of the EU, I think it should be replaced with something on a basis of co=operation, perhaps the commonwealth would be a good model to start from.
If Satan fixed the vote, does that make God a pro-EU-er ? If so why doesn't he turn back time and change the vote, or maybe click his fingers and make us all realise the brilliance of a single Europe !?!?
And you think Schumann was the founder of what became the EU ? Get yourself a copy of "The Great Deception", by C. Booker and R.North, and get prepared to feel very VERY stupid, and incredibly mis-informed about that which you are so certain.
Because the devil won a battle. Why did the holocaust happen under your logic. You would decide then anything that happens must be good. Schumann was the founder of the EU Hitler was against nationalist co-operation. Schuman was massive a founder of the EU.
If the organization that was to become the EU was all about securing peace in Europe, why did Britain not join until 1972 ?
Britain, if you count the commonwealth, gave more lives to ww2 than most. including USA. We were founder members of all the international groups, and join ww2 out of choice, not because we were immediately threatend.
Because Germany anf France had been emembers since it's founding and it had provided peace between those nations. Actually the Gwermans and French lost more lives in WW2.
What really gets me about so many proEU-ers is the way you equate Europe with the EU, as if Euro countries haven't shared trade/immigration/security for 1000's of years.
But for much of those 1000 years we were at war. I do not see that as a positive model. Th greatest wars came when we were divided. The NAZIs nerary took over much of Europe because we were weak, divided and not supporting a idelogy of ewual european nations ina federation. The same was true of the Romans, the Huns, and the mongols. A weak europe is liable to tyranny. A weak USA would never have been able to ensure democracy and freedom in WW2.
Europe was the most dominant continant for centuries, its only since this single European project started that its become "weakened".
No I'm not saying existing large countries should be broken up. But if the USA were made up of independant states I would QUESTION putting them together, just as I question whether the people "building Europe" have entirely benevolent intentions. The amounts of corruption and deception ask some very serious questions.
Europe was weakened by WW1 and WW2 nationalist wars, and by the Soviet Union occupying it. Immediately after WW2 the Soviet Union and the USA became the global superpowers. It is the EU that ensures Europe can be a major power again.
There is corruption in any nation. You seem to think corruption only happens in the EU. Why? Are you racist?
Of course I don't think corruption only happens in the EU. Where did I say this ?!?
I do think that the EU is the only "democratic" organization that would get away with recognised corruption on such a scale, where for 13 years running the auditors would refuse to sign off the accounts because they simply don't add up.
Any other business run like this would of faced criminal charges years ago.
Everyone knows the auditors report is so strcit no government would pass it. So you tlak bull shit as usual. What government anywhere in the pkanet does such a strict audit. Look at the CIA. Or MI5.
Because they did so what. The fact is the audit is tougher than any national government does. I would love to see the USA government go through the EU audit.
Your naievety would be touching if you weren't so narrow minded. Do you even know why the auditors were brought in in the first place ? It had nothing to do with EU honesty !
I would love to see ALL large governments go through a similar audit. Of course the difference is that no other organization is so shamelessley rife with fraud and corruption that they have no excuse to avoid such an audit.
Why shouldn't the audit be tough ? It is taxpayers money being stolen by the million.
Perhaps, but you're entirely missing the point, the EU HAS to go through the annual audit BECAUSE it is so corrupt. No other government have had to resign because they were so obviously corrupt.
Do you understand ? The EU commission were caught lying and stealing again and again and again. Not accused, but caught, proven by people who worked in Brussels.
Its OUR money, why are you so determined to defend them ?
No every government is corrupt do not me so racist as to think it is just those wogs, and krauts who rob money. Look at the Tory MPS. Plus it was tory euroskeptic MEPs who stole the money.
When I say OUR money I mean taxpayers, all accross Europe, I didn't at all mean British money. All of Europe is getting ripped off.
I don't know, but agree all goverments are probably corrupt. But the EU is corrupt to a level beyond anything else, and its not even a secret, they recognise it themselves and barely have the decency to try and cover it up.
But there are c rooked politcians eveyrwhere you say get rid of the EU because there are some bad people there well there badpeople everywhere in local government nationmal government we would have to get rid of it all you have naive logic. In your view the EU is the only place where corruption happens it happens everywhere.
Read my above comment again, I don't think corruption only happens in EU, are you physically blind as well as politically ?
I say the corruption is more wide-spread and accepted in the EU than probably anywhere else. Even if it happens EVERYWHERE else, thats no reason to accept it, and certainly no defence of it!
Its all a serious question against the validity of the EU. Another would be the evil, dangerous Fisheries policy, which you cannot have a single defence of surely !??!
Another the costly over regulated common market, more expensive and restrictive than any other in the world.
Another would be the wasteful expenditure of projects such as Galileo and the trans European network.
All in all the whole thing is extremely suspect. But what I really object to is the fact that you can't change any of it unless absolutley everyone wants to change, and that the whole thing is presented as essential, when it really isn't
The CAP was foubnded to stopp europe from fmaine it is not selfish. We need food security do you want to be dependent on other nations like we are for oil with food. Africa needs it os own CAp You have free market extremism. No sensible country would remove food subsidies.
There is plenty of evidence, I ask you again why does the EU have the annual audit in the first place? They were forced to BECAUSE fraud was so rampant and Commissioners etc continually refused to offer any explanation.
You have heard of Paul van Buitenen I presume ?!!?
And its not just more wide spread, it is more recognised, and from what is known for certain is on a bigger scale than anywhere else.
As for the CAP, it was founded to ensure an income for the French farmers, who represented about a quarter of the French population at the time. It is incredibly selfish and flawed, probably responsible for more of the fraud than any other area of EU policy, and is disasterous for African agriculture.
When was the last time Europe was threatened with famine, aside from the exceptional circumstances immediatley after the war ?
Because of the quotas we are dependent on other countries for food supplies, and food/energy are the two areas where I think all countries should be as self sufficient as possible, that just seems like common sense.
Europe has not been threatedn with fmaine because of the CAP which ensures european food security . You are like a man who builds a roof to stop the water coming in and then once he sees water has stopped coming in decides to ger rid of the roof. The CAP ensures our food security end of story.
How you can defend the CAP is beyond me, no-one in Brussels does, the only arguement is HOW to change it, or whether it's at all neccesary.
It never was neccesary, it is the cause of all the problems it seeks to solve. The stupid quota system it brought in has created an absurd situation where some farmers are paid to waste food, while others are not allowed to use their own land to produce food, in fact many are PAID TO NOT PRODUCE FOOD. The CAP is a by-word for fraud, and NO-ONE denies it !
Where do you get your information? If you had a clue what you were talking about you would pretend I hadn't mentioned the CAP, like you did with the Common Fisheries Policy, which isn't on such a large scale, but even more ludicrous, wicked, and deceitful !!
Read why the CAP was founded you seem to claim it is corprate conspiracy, when in reality it is a good thing founded to ensure european food security. This is fact. You are a free market extremist who would leave us in hoc to foreign nations for our food.
No they are paid to produce food. Yes there is need to control over production and under production but that is because they need to ensure that the structe is balanced. You have a very naive idea of why the CAP exists. it is to ensure food security and it is produces engouh food for our food security there are some regulations needed to prevent over production.
You do realise that hardly anyone understands the Lisbon Treaty, to do so you need a degree in law, a particular intrest in European law, you need to cross reference it with ALL the other Euro treaties, and you need to know quite how this "self amending" treaty will amend itself in the future. It was never meant to be understood, even the author says so!
Whose fault is it that the Lisbon treaty was never explained to the Irish people ?
And being pro-europe is almost the opposite of pro-EU
kyotorocks I understood it. And I am not a lawyer. So this was the eurpskeptics line as they did not understand it they opreached their stupidity as a positive.
I don't think you'll find many Brits with anything good to say about the government.
And you may not need thanks, but you're going to need support, the EU was never going to accept a "no" vote, they are already arrogantly deciding what the question was and how to rephrase it so you give the "right" answer next time.
Be VERY wary when your leaders start talking about "red lines" or "guarantees". It won't be too long (about 4 months...)
I think the EU to be inherently flawed, as the central aim was always to build a government for Europe; any good it might do takes a back seat to obtaining exclusive control of the right to do it.
I object so strongly because you cannot pick and choose, either you are in the EU and all its policies, or you leave.
You are no less extreme, just on the other side of the coin, blind to any fault of the EU and convinced by the propaganda, which you use as if it were fact.
...between us is that you're an odious hypocrite, if you dis-agree with someone you call them a Nazi, and then quote Hitler at them as if it proves your point.
I tried to be fair and openly discuss it all, but you are stubbonly insistent, until I give you a bullet point history lesson, which you then ignore and go onto another subject. Eg, Yugoslavia.
Go to "view all comments" and read throught them again, You quite plainly contradict yourself and re-write what I've said so you can refute it
Yep I call them NAZIs so what. Euroskeptics are followers of NAZI nationalism. They are. By the way Milošević was also a nationalist who broke up the federal system of Yugoslavia to make Serbia dominant. You bring up Milosevic is an error as he agreed with your euroskeptic ideas. His supporters are also euroskeptics Are you proud?
euroskeptics have been defined do not try to redefine it. You are a nationalistic NAZI bigot. You were blabbering on and on about Milosevic until you found out he was another nazi who agreed with you.
Thye did not automatically support him where is your evidence. The EU put sanctions on him. The party that supports Milosevic is against the EU. How does that make you feel?
And its hard to take someone seriously when they claim Satan fixed the irish referendum, and then calls me insane !
But if you really want me to I shall explain why the CAP is abhorrent, so you can take what I say on that and suppose it to mean something else, which I'll then explain as nonsense, and then you can move on to something else etc etc..
No I think you are extreme I have said the CAP is not perfect, nothing is and notging will be, but it is basically there to ensure european food security you seem to see it as some sort of satanic plot to kill the poor kill the farmers kill the what ever. You are an extremist.
The British don't have one document called "The British Constitution" Parliament is supreme and is not obliged to consult the people on any law. Hence there is no requirement in the UK to hold a referendum on Lisbon. Irelands Consitution called: Bunreacht na hEireann requires a referendum on any treaty relating to national sovereignty. That is why a referendum on the Lisbon treaty was a legal requirment.
padraigomairtin 2 years ago
Are the American or the British constitutions voted by a referendum ???
NUNOQUADROS 2 years ago
Well done Ireland!!!! Keep saying NO, because we have an absolute ass running Britain, wo signed everything away, including our Gold reserves and didn't tell his people a thing, a democracy?? More like a joke! Get this idiot out.
Peace to Ireland!
DonSimonUK 2 years ago
The British Constitution is what ensures our civil liberties. It is the foundation of our democratic society.
It is law.
On the 1st January 2009, the final EU treaty went through.
This treaty, unbeknown to the majority of the general public,
abolished the British Constitution.
The UK is now under the authority of the EU Constitution, meaning that 100% of all government power is held by those same unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.
F@CK THE EUSSR
thewarden4444 3 years ago
Lisbon Treaty 2 anyone ?
« The EU can lawfully suppress political criticism of its institutions and of leading public figures « (European Court of Justice ruling 2001).
The European Charter of Fundamental Rights (art.2,passage 2) states that LETHAL force (live ammo) can be used during « rioting,civil upheaval & during war ».
The same Charter of RIGHTS does not mention ANYWHERE the right of EU citizens to vote.
Perhaps they forgot.
Remind them in the European elections in June 2009.
Spenner56 3 years ago
Let's say "NO" to the EU Fascism !!
celtishlegend 3 years ago
Your welcome, can we have the north back soon?
DeiLeucetius 3 years ago 4
What!!
Hey we are in a recession, why the hell would we want the burden of trying to support the North, No way the Republic could do that....
Britain can keep spending millions of pounds a year to sustain the North as part of the U.K thank you....
Sure I've been up North loads of times, the troubles are pretty much long gone and it's basically the same as the South except you have to change currency... Big whoop...
Frankly, we would be screwed as an economy if we got back the North...
nitrobyname 3 years ago
I,then I pissed and vomitted outside your door,cheers
thmscllghn 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The Irish came, they ate and when its finished they dump. typical irish behavior
yspad 3 years ago
yspad you spa
skalubes 3 years ago
What do these Euro Fascists not understand about the word NO.
They will be back....... Vote NO again!
No to losing our Tricolour and Identity.
No to a totalitarian Euro dictatorship
No to RFID Identity cards and Chip Implants.
No to A Euro controlled police state.
No to The scrapping of the Irish Constitution
No to Euro Constitution and dictatorship
No to 666 and the New World Order.
StatueSmasher 3 years ago
Eh1 So having a police force makes you a fascist. The irish would not have lost their tricolour or idenity by this vote. The NWO is neo nazi myth mentioned in mein kampf. Where jhe complains of the jewish satrapy taking over the planet.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Like the European parliment handing over all our digital information, credit card details and transit movements over to the US authorities. This is just another step towards the NWO and Nazi faschism.
StatueSmasher 3 years ago
It was not the EU it was national governments that did that but as usual you manage the incredible euro skeptic trick of blaming the eu for everything.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
To zzxzqwq, your sudden silence speaks volumes, but even IF you were right about ANYTHING, you're still a loathsome fool, is it not vitally important that you wise few correct us ignorant masses. Otherwise, in your own words, we will "destroy Europe".
To anyone else, an apology for taking up so much space in these comments, just couldn't abide the above odious virulent Euro-fascist actually trying to defend his nonsense.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
kyotorocks You are an offensive bully. You are the fascist. You support Hitlers dream. He did not want a united europe. He told his officials to not work on such plans. You are an odious nazi bully boy who made these comments wihtout informing me. Take your nexo nazi scum views to the dustibin of history. Eisenhower and Churchill were right you are a pratt.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Do you understand what the word fascism means? I'd love to know quite how you're mis-understanding it!
You're not worth any more time, you have no point aside from "I'm right and anyone who disagrees supports Hitler". You really think constantly quoting "mien kampf" proves anything?.
You should also look up the word "odious". And then think about how often you've posted "paedo creep cunt" on youtube in the last 2 weeks.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
You are a total dick. Hitler agreed witj you end of story. Everyone knows what the word Fascist means. My defintion includes those who seek to bring narrow minded nationalism back to destory and divide us. It is mein kampf. It prooves what Hitler reall thoguht rather the pretence where euroskeptics claim he was one of ours he was one of yours.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
...and thus once again you delibrately avoid any reference to facts or any ideas besides "Hitler agreed with you". Well all I'm saying is I'm opposed to the particular organisation called the EU, which Hitler didn't oppose as he died before it all started.
Open your eyes a fraction and realise that "anti EU" means just that, not anti Europe or anti co-operation. It IS possible to believe in European unity, but think that the EU is a deceitful failiure.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Of course, you know this, but seem to get a kick out of being a wind up merchant. It's quite pathetic.
NB. "Fascism; a government system with complete power, or one seeking such, who forcibly suppresses opposition or criticism, and seeks to regiment industry, commerce etc, emphasizing an aggressive nationalism."
EU= single European government, seeking to harmonize industry, commerce etc, "no" is never taken as final, critics outcast and ostracized.
Bye bye, little euro-fascist.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Hitler did not support integration like you. You are against integration, co-operation. Who does that remind me off Hmm Hitler. It is only a failure if the NAZIs win.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Actually, there is thin evidence that Hitler would not have supported a project like the EU, himself was into social engineering a society along the racial lines.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
The EU does nothing which could be described as social engineering or gencoide. How can you even compare such a thing it is sick. The EU allows people freedom to go where ever they want in europe how is that social engineering. Where is the social enigneering. Let alone genocide
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
NO NO NO VICTORY TO THE PEOPLE
1916supermc 3 years ago
zzxzqwq,
You are becoming very tedious, I'm fed up of talking about nazis, which have nothing to do with the EU. stop avoiding the issue.
I'm against the EU, which officially began with the European coal and steel community(ECSC), founded 1951. The nazis effectivly died in 1945 with the end of the war.
If you're going to defend the EU, fine, tell me why. But I've already said I'm in favour of Euro integration. You are being far more nationlistic than me.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
And read through your comments again, you quite plainly said "Satan did fix the vote".
This is what I mean about you blindly making your argument without even considering what you're saying.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
No it says the devil worshping neocons fixed the vote. watch the video again and read my explanation.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
For the last time, I don't think anything is satantic because I DON'T BELIEVE IN SATAN !!
I can see the quote from the "usual suspects" coming, but you really are in trouble if you're going to rely on film quotes to "prove" what your saying.
A conspiracy is people working together in secret to get what they want, on the surface lying and decieving. Of course this happens, it could almost be a definition of politics.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
So you are part of Hitlers conspiracy theory who believe in the NWO bull shit.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
1. Go to "view all comments" for THIS video. Read through them.
2. Note that I plainly said I don't buy into the NWO conspiracies.
3. Note that YOU said "Satan fixed the vote".
4. Note that I explained (twice !) how, by supporting the Yugoslav Federation the EU were supporting Milosevic.
5. Note also that I said the EU soon changed their tune, and that I never said Milosevic (or Hitler) was right.
6. Think about the fact that just because I am against the EU, and that any other...
kyotorocks 3 years ago
...person or group is against the EU, DOESN'T mean me and the other person or group agree on anything else, or even that we are against the EU for the same reasons.
7. Think about the fact that you seem to be against the Neocons in USA, as are the North Koreans/Iranians. How does THIS make YOU feel ?
8. Wonder about how effctive the EU sanctions have been against anyone, for example Zimbabwe at the moment.
9.Bitterly realise tunnel vision is a bitch.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
You suffer tunnel vision. You are an extremist bigot who refuses to see the positive causes of European integration.
Hitler once said . "even a glimpse of right on the other side is admitted, the cause for doubting one's own right is laid"
I assure you I can see flaws but they are outwighed by the benefits.
Let me ask you do you see any benefit in european integration. Do you know why CAP exists? Do you yes or no?
The critics of the EU are nazis end of story.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Its ironic for you to keep quoting Hitler to show up others as Nazis.
I don't know many Nazi quotes, but one that may apply to the EU (not, I think, you directly) would be from joseph goebbels, something like "make the lie big, make it simple and keep repeating it and eventually everyone will believe it" or maybe it was "stop questioning it",
I'm not sure, I don't have much of an interest in Nazi culture. Do you have the quotes in front of you or are you reading from memory ? ;)
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Anyway, its hard to discuss seriously with you when you keeping throwing such nonsense into a (i think mistaken but) fairly reasonable argument.
Let me be clear; I'm not a nazi, i do see benefits of euro integration (depending on your definition), in fact I think it a very good thing.
I just don't think the EU is the only way possible to get that.
You are extreme in your understanding, no sense of subtlety, as if its either EU OR independant nation states, with nothing in between.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
What are you on about I made no lie I quoted directly from Mein Kampf. You agree with Hitler you should read him as he is wanring of what not to believe.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
How stupid are you ?
Read again, I applied the quote from Goebbals to the EU, and quite distinctly said I didn't think it applied to you directly.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Goebbals was not an important minister. Hitler was the leader and clearly was again co-operation between nations. The people who did the policy did not do what you pretend they did.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Goebbals was the head of nazi propaganda, how is this not an important position ?
I didn't say the policy makers did anything, I didn't even mention them.
Besides, it's you who keep mentioning nazis and things Hitler said. I have never once defended Hitler.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Propaganda minister does not decide policy. Hitler agreed with you end of story.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
What have I said exactly that Hitler agreed with?
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Jean Rey was put in a concentration camp and became president of the EEC. :
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
And what does this have to do with anything I've said?
The nazis were spiteful, cruel, evil tyrants, I have never said otherwise.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
By supporting extreme nationalism.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Well, racism is part of the western world. Besides, the Eu is going to use racism to improve their social engineering fabric of the new european society, mimicking the style of the US' melting pot.
Actually, supporting the EU is supporting a process based on racism.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
Rubbish. The EU has noting to do with increased immigratiopn. Immigration to the UK and France happened because we had empires. Immigration within the EU is of white people so how is that causing racism. You are obviously a hater of european people so mind your own fucking business. :
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Where did I speak of immigration? I underlined the very fact that the EU is on the road of social engineering a new european society in a similar way the US did through the melting pot.
I hope you know that the US weakness on the seas led them to build up chattel slavery, meaning they had no immigration to fuel the racist process.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
What! They are not socially enginering anything. It is right of movement for people which you seek to destroy you are the extremist. :
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
The EU is at social engineering a new european society. It has nothing to do with with right of movement for people. As to destroying this right, the EU works wonders with plans like Odysseus, retainment rules and stuff like that...
TheCZMan 3 years ago
I do not understand how. Where is t:he social engineeering. Where?
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
The social engineering going on in Europe present days is the very same as in the US during the 19th melting pot: blending in people with hostile to each others history in one single new entity.
It is done on several levels, one is of course administrations which is done into one language, through work with high positions reserved to people born in this or that language (creating an incentive to blend in) etc...
A catalysor will be used: racism.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
You cannot repeat the same statements with no evidence. What social engineering. You cannot just say just like the USA when it is not like the USA. What do you mena work reserved for people in certain lanaguages where?
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
If you dont know about a topic, please refrain from speaking about it before investigating it.
In this kind of social engineering, the administrative power sector is used as a means of blending people in. I guess this is what the EU is doing when you have to apply to positions in the EU administration.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
There is no social engineeering. You have not given me a single example.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
I have already given several examples. Your turning them down seems to indicate you are lacking knowledge on what social engineering is.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
You have given no example at all. Where is your actual an example. Do you know what an example is?
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
I think I know what an example is.
Mind to explain how the given example of reserving positions in the power apparatus to people of a given language is not an evidence of social engineering?
TheCZMan 3 years ago
But where does this happen?
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
In Zambia. Where else?
So let's see: the EU is into processing a social engineering like the US did through their melting pot stuff. Should come quickly as a conclusion that this happens within the european power apparatus like commission jobs and the rest.
So now this is clarified, please mind to explain how this is not an evidence of social engineering?
TheCZMan 3 years ago
Look where in the fucking EU is this happening. Where name me the job the country and the position. You have no fucking example. The commission jobs are given to representatives of each nation how is that social engineeering it affects about 27 people. THERE IS NO SOCIAL ENGINEERING :
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
All it takes is to look up at the job offers made by the commission (or any branch of the european power apparatus). So again, I really doubt you are the slightest knowledgeable on this topic. You have not investigated the topic at best or at worst are denying what is going on. That is the way it is.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
You are being idiotic. I know about thuis topic There are very few people employed in the EU. They are needed to do work. That is not social engineering in any way. In the old days monarchies ised to marry eachother. You have nothing to back up your argument.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
I dont expect a sincere answer but you know nothing about the way social engineering works dont you?
You dont know the importance and the consequences of these kind of reserved jobs on a population?
So back to my question:please mind to explain how this is not an evidence of social engineering? Please tell. I am eager of learning something today.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
Because social engineering would need to affect masses of sections of the population not a few 100 civil servants from each nation. How is few 100 people form the UK working in the EU parliament going to have any sort of major social impact on a nation 0f 60 million people.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Thank you for the answer which shows you have no clue on social engineering.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
Madness. They need to have employees form all over the union to translate So what. Thta is not social engineering it is few 100 people from each nation. You are an idiot.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Thank you for the answer which shows you have no clue on social engineering.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
Not only that but work positions reserved on language are not translation related but interpretation of laws related.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
I do know why the CAP exists, and would be happy to talk about it, but look at your very next sentence, "the critics of the EU are nazis end of story".
You said you don't think the CAP is perfect, I would go a lot further and am happy to state many examples of un acceptable fraud, not just a little but HUGE cases of corruption.
If you accept CAP is not perfect you must have some criticism of it, does this make you a nazi?
kyotorocks 3 years ago
You surely see why its hard for me to take you seriously ?
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Nope
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
CAP is here to protect food security it is is vital for our survival The USA and Japan subsidise their food.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Yes and if you read my explanation you clealy see I was making the comment that devil worshipping neocons fixed the vote. Why do you missquote people all the fucking time. You are a typical euroskeptic who missreads people deliberately. NAZI
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
But better they joined under dictatorships than not at all, surely ?
kyotorocks 3 years ago
But your argument that NATO ensured european demcoracy does not add up if it allowed dictatorships to join.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
I said prevented war, not ensured democracy.
Democracy and the EU is something else entirely, but we already have enough threads going between the two of us here, lets leave that one till later eh ? ;)
kyotorocks 3 years ago
I absolutley agree about Zimbabwae, something should of been done years ago, but the EU is similarly flawed, they should of stopped the French suppling Iraq with weapons for years.
Unfortunately the French know how to play the EU like their own private benefits system. Don't mis understand me, its right that French diplomats get the best deal for France they can, but the rest of us shouldn't tolerate it.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
NATO included the tyranny's of Greece, Spain and Portgal while they were run by dictators. So it has nothing to do with stopping tyranny. The EU prevents war and esnures democracy. Greece and Turkey had a war over Cyprus while still members.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Sorry Spain joined when democratic But Greece and Portgual joined nato while in doctatorships
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
AND EURO-SCEPTICS DO NOT WANT TO DESTROY EUROPE. WE BELIEVE IN EUROPE, THATS WHY WE WANT THIS FRAUDULENT FAILED EXPERIMENT THAT IS THE EU TO STOP BEFORE IT DOES IRREPEARABLE DAMAGE TO THIS FINE CONTINENT !!!!
You are the nationalist, claiming superiority of a single land named Europe, intolerant of any criticism and scornful of any suggestion that you might be even a tiny bit mistaken.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
No your ideas were tried before a weak divided europe leads to internal and external enemies trying to destroy or conquer it. This has beeen shown time and time before.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
No, nothing on the scale of co-operation as the British commonwealth has ever been tried accross Europe.
And they are not my ideas, its what most people meant pre 1957 when they talked about European integration. It was a minority group who wanted supra-nationalism, which is what the EU is about.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
There is no co-operation in the commonwealth. Be honesrt our commonwealth is a pile of bull shit. There is no co-operation at all. Zimbabwae was in the commonwealth it is waste of time. Except for the commonwelath games.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
I know its deeply flawed, but the one desirable element it has thats lacking from the EU is that its voluntary, no country is forced to do anything they don't want. It is about co-operation, it maybe doesn't work so certainly, but with such a model we could have all the freedom of movement, free trade etc, almost all the benefits we supposedly get from the EU, only without the deception, the deceit that means the EU will never function as it pretends to, and as such never will.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Why would she not join this grand project for peace?
There are 2 main reasons for the lack of war between the big western countries since ww2;
1. NATO
2. Nuclear Warfare
How come USA, Russia, China, Britain, Germany, France haven't gone to war against each other for 50 years ? Nuclear weapons, not the EU, which most of the above are not even members of. The Eu hasn't even prevented war in Europe. (Bosnia, Kosovo etc,)
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Nope France was not in NATO for a while. Bosnia is not in the EU. So you have destroyed your own argument. If they had been in the EU they would not have had a war.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Not everyone needs to be in either group for them to have an effect.
The EU did get involved in Bosnia, of course they were slow to do anything, and instinctivley supported Milosevic, you know the massive war criminal, but they were there.
But again you miss my point. The second world war more or less ended with the use of the nuclear bomb. This makes war so deadly as to effectively rule it out between those with the bomb. Hence no war between Russia and USA, the only superpowers..
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Bosnia was niot part of the EU. So how is it the EU fault it went to war. There were many man7y wars after WW2. Such as the gulf war, the Iraq war, The Vietnam war, the Afghan war, the congo wars.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
It was NATO who prevented immeadiate reactionary wars after 1945. What became the EU had nothing to do with it.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
NATO included the tyranny's of Greece, Spain and Portgal while they were run by dictators. So it has nothing to do with stopping tyranny. The EU prevents war and esnures democracy. Greece and Turkey had a war over Cyprus while still members.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
The EU did not support anymore yiou liar it was utterley nuertral. The tories supported Milosevic. You knw the independent nation of the UK. The EU had noting at all to do with Bosnia. It did not have powerful froeign polict then. DO NOT KEEP SPREADING VILE LIES.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
I'm not saying the EU continued to support Milosevic, its just their first reaction was to support the established group, not support independence of minorities.
Of course they soon realised what an arsehole he was, and rightly had no more to do with him. But it was him they went to first, out of ignorance and in-efficiency.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
No the EU did not support anyone. The democratically elected leaders of independent nations did.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
I don't remember it by heart so I'll check and post later soas not to mis-inform, but the EU delegation DID go to Milosevic and offer un-offical sympathy, if not public support, not because they actually supported him, but as they were so determined to show "Europe speaking with one voice" that they reacted without bothering to check their facts first.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
They did not, other european nations did but not the EU which had no foreign policy power.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
In 1970, the "Luxembourg Agreement" proposed "a single European foreign policy". In 1985 a treaty was signed committing all members to co-operate foreign policy.
Thus by 1991 the Commission had long been trying to take control of all Europe's foreign policy. When Slovenia and Croatia announced independence from the federal Yugoslavia and the troops were sent in to stop the rebellion, the EU was holding a European Council.
The council sent a "troika", BY AGREEMENT OF ALL MEMBER STATES....
kyotorocks 3 years ago
...to mediate. The council's president was Mr Santer, he said "we have to try all means to save the (yugoslavian) federation".
The EU (or EC as it was called then) had agreed to give the federal government 700 million French ecus.
The EU couldn't oppose the federal government at the very moment they were building their own Federation. And so, far from ending the violence, their actions allowed the mass slaughter to move into Croatia.
What followed was..
kyotorocks 3 years ago
a civil war more violent than anything seen in Europe since WW2.
Now tell me again how the EU didn't take sides, and is absolutley essential for peace in Europe !!!!
kyotorocks 3 years ago
The EU did not takes sides it supported the federation it did not support serbia whether you like it or not. You do not see to see the difference.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Thye supported euroopean federation so what. What does that have to do with supporting Serbia abusing other nations. It was Serbian nationalism that nationalists supported.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Th EU did not back the serbians. This is rubbish,
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
You are blindly defending your side of the arguement, with no thought for what you're actually saying;
You said "The EU did not take sides it supported the federation". Moron, it DID take sides BECAUSE it supported the federation.
Slovenia and Croatia wanted democratic independence from the Yugoslav Communist Federation, which was Serbian dominated.
Milosevic had control of the Serb communist Party, the dominant group in the Federation; it was they who sent in the troops to kill the...
kyotorocks 3 years ago
...rebellion. The EU went against the peoples seeking democracy, and supported the federation ie THE SERBIANS !!!
The EU, determined to show itself as the superpower of Europe, ignored the right of former sovereign nations to claim back democracy.
By supporting Federalism they were supporting the Serbs, and so allowed mass slaughter to go unchecked.
Don't now twist my words, I know they soon realised what an evil sod Milosevic was, but your arguement they were neutral is absurd.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Just because they don't have the right doesn't stop them...
there are things in motion today that are only authorised by the constitution that was rejected 3 years ago.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
WHAT ????
You should read my comments more carefully, and stop making such assumptions about what I mean. The holocaust was all to do with humans, if anything it suggests there is no God, but what does that have to do with your ridiculous claim that "Satan fixed the vote". If Satan wants to finish the EU why would he do something so in-effectual as fix one lousy vote that the EU were always going to ignore anyway, why not conspire to give other countries a vote and "fix" those too...
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Robert Schumann didn't even write "the Schumann plan", you really should read the book I mentioned and stop embarassing yourself.
You didn't answer many of my previous questions, but lets stick with one;
If what was to become the EU was all about securing peace in Europe why did Britain not join until 1972 ? Britain almost bankrupted herself fighting ww2, and didn't HAVE to get involved in the first place. She was a founder member of all other groups of international co-operation,
kyotorocks 3 years ago
the first 50 yeawrs of 20th century so wars between a divided europe, this destroyed europe. The second half saw europe united. All european nations need to be part of that co-operation. Britian did join and spent most of the second half of the 20th century in the union.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
You exaggerate, Europe wasn't "destroyed", if so there would be nothing in Europe today more than a hundred years old.
I agree with euro co-operation, but thats not what the EU is about, and they don't own the copyright on euro co-operation.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
So you just want a new european model but in a different name,.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Satan did fix the vote. As it was devil neocons and euroe skeptics. Satan must be stopped.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
And a United States of America is a model of peace ??
Anyway, I must go, but am happy to resume another time, so long as you are happy to continue without the nonsense about satan fixing votes!
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Satan did fix the vote. Plus Hitler supported euroskeptics nationaslitic ideas.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
The term euro-sceptic is somewhat mis leading.
I'm critical of the EU, I think it should be replaced with something on a basis of co=operation, perhaps the commonwealth would be a good model to start from.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Euroskeptics want to destory Europe they are enemies of the people of europe.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
zzxzqwq,
If Satan fixed the vote, does that make God a pro-EU-er ? If so why doesn't he turn back time and change the vote, or maybe click his fingers and make us all realise the brilliance of a single Europe !?!?
And you think Schumann was the founder of what became the EU ? Get yourself a copy of "The Great Deception", by C. Booker and R.North, and get prepared to feel very VERY stupid, and incredibly mis-informed about that which you are so certain.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Because the devil won a battle. Why did the holocaust happen under your logic. You would decide then anything that happens must be good. Schumann was the founder of the EU Hitler was against nationalist co-operation. Schuman was massive a founder of the EU.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
But look, please answer me one question;
If the organization that was to become the EU was all about securing peace in Europe, why did Britain not join until 1972 ?
Britain, if you count the commonwealth, gave more lives to ww2 than most. including USA. We were founder members of all the international groups, and join ww2 out of choice, not because we were immediately threatend.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Because Germany anf France had been emembers since it's founding and it had provided peace between those nations. Actually the Gwermans and French lost more lives in WW2.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Sorry, I don't understand, why does this explain Britain not joining the original six 'til 1972 ?
kyotorocks 3 years ago
What really gets me about so many proEU-ers is the way you equate Europe with the EU, as if Euro countries haven't shared trade/immigration/security for 1000's of years.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Eh! No one says that Europe did not trade before.
But for much of those 1000 years we were at war. I do not see that as a positive model. Th greatest wars came when we were divided. The NAZIs nerary took over much of Europe because we were weak, divided and not supporting a idelogy of ewual european nations ina federation. The same was true of the Romans, the Huns, and the mongols. A weak europe is liable to tyranny. A weak USA would never have been able to ensure democracy and freedom in WW2.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Europe was the most dominant continant for centuries, its only since this single European project started that its become "weakened".
No I'm not saying existing large countries should be broken up. But if the USA were made up of independant states I would QUESTION putting them together, just as I question whether the people "building Europe" have entirely benevolent intentions. The amounts of corruption and deception ask some very serious questions.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Europe was weakened by WW1 and WW2 nationalist wars, and by the Soviet Union occupying it. Immediately after WW2 the Soviet Union and the USA became the global superpowers. It is the EU that ensures Europe can be a major power again.
There is corruption in any nation. You seem to think corruption only happens in the EU. Why? Are you racist?
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Of course I don't think corruption only happens in the EU. Where did I say this ?!?
I do think that the EU is the only "democratic" organization that would get away with recognised corruption on such a scale, where for 13 years running the auditors would refuse to sign off the accounts because they simply don't add up.
Any other business run like this would of faced criminal charges years ago.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Everyone knows the auditors report is so strcit no government would pass it. So you tlak bull shit as usual. What government anywhere in the pkanet does such a strict audit. Look at the CIA. Or MI5.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
If this is true why did the commission agree to having the auditors at all?
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Because they did so what. The fact is the audit is tougher than any national government does. I would love to see the USA government go through the EU audit.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
zzxzqwq,
Your naievety would be touching if you weren't so narrow minded. Do you even know why the auditors were brought in in the first place ? It had nothing to do with EU honesty !
I would love to see ALL large governments go through a similar audit. Of course the difference is that no other organization is so shamelessley rife with fraud and corruption that they have no excuse to avoid such an audit.
Why shouldn't the audit be tough ? It is taxpayers money being stolen by the million.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
No government would pass the audit,.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Perhaps, but you're entirely missing the point, the EU HAS to go through the annual audit BECAUSE it is so corrupt. No other government have had to resign because they were so obviously corrupt.
Do you understand ? The EU commission were caught lying and stealing again and again and again. Not accused, but caught, proven by people who worked in Brussels.
Its OUR money, why are you so determined to defend them ?
kyotorocks 3 years ago
No every government is corrupt do not me so racist as to think it is just those wogs, and krauts who rob money. Look at the Tory MPS. Plus it was tory euroskeptic MEPs who stole the money.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
You have no sense of subtlety.
When I say OUR money I mean taxpayers, all accross Europe, I didn't at all mean British money. All of Europe is getting ripped off.
I don't know, but agree all goverments are probably corrupt. But the EU is corrupt to a level beyond anything else, and its not even a secret, they recognise it themselves and barely have the decency to try and cover it up.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
But there are c rooked politcians eveyrwhere you say get rid of the EU because there are some bad people there well there badpeople everywhere in local government nationmal government we would have to get rid of it all you have naive logic. In your view the EU is the only place where corruption happens it happens everywhere.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Read my above comment again, I don't think corruption only happens in EU, are you physically blind as well as politically ?
I say the corruption is more wide-spread and accepted in the EU than probably anywhere else. Even if it happens EVERYWHERE else, thats no reason to accept it, and certainly no defence of it!
Its all a serious question against the validity of the EU. Another would be the evil, dangerous Fisheries policy, which you cannot have a single defence of surely !??!
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Another question would be the selfish CAP.
Another the costly over regulated common market, more expensive and restrictive than any other in the world.
Another would be the wasteful expenditure of projects such as Galileo and the trans European network.
All in all the whole thing is extremely suspect. But what I really object to is the fact that you can't change any of it unless absolutley everyone wants to change, and that the whole thing is presented as essential, when it really isn't
kyotorocks 3 years ago
You have to accept all of it or reject all of it. Well I vote for rejection.
Or would if I was actually given the chance !
kyotorocks 3 years ago
The CAP was foubnded to stopp europe from fmaine it is not selfish. We need food security do you want to be dependent on other nations like we are for oil with food. Africa needs it os own CAp You have free market extremism. No sensible country would remove food subsidies.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
No it is not more wide spread there is no evidence for that,
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
There is plenty of evidence, I ask you again why does the EU have the annual audit in the first place? They were forced to BECAUSE fraud was so rampant and Commissioners etc continually refused to offer any explanation.
You have heard of Paul van Buitenen I presume ?!!?
kyotorocks 3 years ago
And its not just more wide spread, it is more recognised, and from what is known for certain is on a bigger scale than anywhere else.
As for the CAP, it was founded to ensure an income for the French farmers, who represented about a quarter of the French population at the time. It is incredibly selfish and flawed, probably responsible for more of the fraud than any other area of EU policy, and is disasterous for African agriculture.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
When was the last time Europe was threatened with famine, aside from the exceptional circumstances immediatley after the war ?
Because of the quotas we are dependent on other countries for food supplies, and food/energy are the two areas where I think all countries should be as self sufficient as possible, that just seems like common sense.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Europe has not been threatedn with fmaine because of the CAP which ensures european food security . You are like a man who builds a roof to stop the water coming in and then once he sees water has stopped coming in decides to ger rid of the roof. The CAP ensures our food security end of story.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
How you can defend the CAP is beyond me, no-one in Brussels does, the only arguement is HOW to change it, or whether it's at all neccesary.
It never was neccesary, it is the cause of all the problems it seeks to solve. The stupid quota system it brought in has created an absurd situation where some farmers are paid to waste food, while others are not allowed to use their own land to produce food, in fact many are PAID TO NOT PRODUCE FOOD. The CAP is a by-word for fraud, and NO-ONE denies it !
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Where do you get your information? If you had a clue what you were talking about you would pretend I hadn't mentioned the CAP, like you did with the Common Fisheries Policy, which isn't on such a large scale, but even more ludicrous, wicked, and deceitful !!
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Read why the CAP was founded you seem to claim it is corprate conspiracy, when in reality it is a good thing founded to ensure european food security. This is fact. You are a free market extremist who would leave us in hoc to foreign nations for our food.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
No they are paid to produce food. Yes there is need to control over production and under production but that is because they need to ensure that the structe is balanced. You have a very naive idea of why the CAP exists. it is to ensure food security and it is produces engouh food for our food security there are some regulations needed to prevent over production.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
FAO BabylonRevival: Not everyone thinks like this in Ireland.
The treaty was defeated by 100,000 votes and the majority of the people who voted no, did so because they didn't understand the treaty.
The no campaign played on a lot of peoples fears of the unknown...
The EU hardly came in to it.
There was posters up saying "Say no to abortion, say no to the lisbon treaty",etc
It spooked enough casual voters to turn the tide.
Ireland is very pro-europe and we remain so.
epicnewsdaily 3 years ago
You do realise that hardly anyone understands the Lisbon Treaty, to do so you need a degree in law, a particular intrest in European law, you need to cross reference it with ALL the other Euro treaties, and you need to know quite how this "self amending" treaty will amend itself in the future. It was never meant to be understood, even the author says so!
Whose fault is it that the Lisbon treaty was never explained to the Irish people ?
And being pro-europe is almost the opposite of pro-EU
kyotorocks 3 years ago
kyotorocks I understood it. And I am not a lawyer. So this was the eurpskeptics line as they did not understand it they opreached their stupidity as a positive.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
@BabylonRevival
You GEEK go away and post some of your crap on some Romanian sites maybe they want to kiss your nazi ass. We don't like geeks in the real west.
Alan0874 3 years ago
Edit: Shove it where the sun don't shine Barroso and all you other EU idiots and euro-krauts!
Alan0874 3 years ago
Racist.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
good for u
1celtic1888 3 years ago
yesss
1celtic1888 3 years ago
Ireland don't need thanks from you lot. now you see what kind of country you live in Brits. What do you think of your government now?
FatsoJetson 3 years ago
I don't think you'll find many Brits with anything good to say about the government.
And you may not need thanks, but you're going to need support, the EU was never going to accept a "no" vote, they are already arrogantly deciding what the question was and how to rephrase it so you give the "right" answer next time.
Be VERY wary when your leaders start talking about "red lines" or "guarantees". It won't be too long (about 4 months...)
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Rubbish. You do not have good word to say about the EU. You an insane extremist.:
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
I think the EU to be inherently flawed, as the central aim was always to build a government for Europe; any good it might do takes a back seat to obtaining exclusive control of the right to do it.
I object so strongly because you cannot pick and choose, either you are in the EU and all its policies, or you leave.
You are no less extreme, just on the other side of the coin, blind to any fault of the EU and convinced by the propaganda, which you use as if it were fact.
The difference..
kyotorocks 3 years ago
...between us is that you're an odious hypocrite, if you dis-agree with someone you call them a Nazi, and then quote Hitler at them as if it proves your point.
I tried to be fair and openly discuss it all, but you are stubbonly insistent, until I give you a bullet point history lesson, which you then ignore and go onto another subject. Eg, Yugoslavia.
Go to "view all comments" and read throught them again, You quite plainly contradict yourself and re-write what I've said so you can refute it
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Yep I call them NAZIs so what. Euroskeptics are followers of NAZI nationalism. They are. By the way Milošević was also a nationalist who broke up the federal system of Yugoslavia to make Serbia dominant. You bring up Milosevic is an error as he agreed with your euroskeptic ideas. His supporters are also euroskeptics Are you proud?
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
You equate "euro scepticism" and nationalism, and anyone who disagrees with the EU as all the same thing.
"sceptic" means to question, what is so wrong with questioning those that govern us !??
You are an idiot if you don't, however much you may love and worship them.
I couldn't give a damn what Milosevic's views were, because people object to the same thing DOESN'T mean they have the same ideas as to the solution.
kyotorocks 3 years ago
euroskeptics have been defined do not try to redefine it. You are a nationalistic NAZI bigot. You were blabbering on and on about Milosevic until you found out he was another nazi who agreed with you.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
Erm, did I defend Milosevic, or agree with him ?!
I said the EU automatically supported him, until even they could see the truth.
The definition of the word SCEPTIC is to question or consider, it is an old Greek word, YOU are the one re-defining it.
You assume any questioning of the EU makes you a Nazi.
Why are you so determined to defend them?
kyotorocks 3 years ago
Thye did not automatically support him where is your evidence. The EU put sanctions on him. The party that supports Milosevic is against the EU. How does that make you feel?
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
And its hard to take someone seriously when they claim Satan fixed the irish referendum, and then calls me insane !
But if you really want me to I shall explain why the CAP is abhorrent, so you can take what I say on that and suppose it to mean something else, which I'll then explain as nonsense, and then you can move on to something else etc etc..
kyotorocks 3 years ago
I said the devil worshiping neocons fixed the vote. There is plenty of evidence for that.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago
No I think you are extreme I have said the CAP is not perfect, nothing is and notging will be, but it is basically there to ensure european food security you seem to see it as some sort of satanic plot to kill the poor kill the farmers kill the what ever. You are an extremist.
zzxzqwq 3 years ago