Mr television man, throughout your year driving the i-Miev you never told everyone that it is based on a petrol powered car and was then converted to electrcity. Reading one of your blog posts, you say Porsche 911 Turbo GT3, which is a car that doesn't exist and you say it does 15 mpg on a long run, it sould probably get between 20 and 25mpg depending on it being a turbo or GT3.
@douchebarge yes, they are for sale too, and, indeed, you can choose to buy at the end of the leasing period. Just seems that they've put an awful lot of thought into their leasing scheme so this, I suspect, will be the prefered choice for many.
It's funny though, I thought you were making a pun.
Certainly I've not seen any Leafs near where I live (a large city) so it would be appropriate- although I have heard that Nissan is in fact offering them for sale. Unfortunately I cannot afford one (nor any other new car) just yet.
Basically, EVs are viable for millions of people right now. Maybe not you; too bad, sorry to hear that. But they're ready and they're coming, whether you like it or not.
A couple more points; 11% of all of the UKs electricity is used in oil refining. Fact. The Missing Leaf will charge to 50% capacity in under 2 hours on standard 240v av power. If you live 20 miles from work and you do some shopping on the go, you're almost certainly not going to need to charge your car for more than 4 hours a night. Why is it so difficult to imagine plugging your car in every night? I do it with my mobile phone!
@JRP3 the UK grid is actually cleaner than the US. It's only 35% coal. Nearly a quarter of the grid is nuclear and renewable - pretty much carbon neutral. At UK rates, the amount of CO2 per mile of an EV vs. a similar sized petrol car is nearly half.
And laptops do not have the power management and monitoring gubbins that you will find in a modern electric car. These battery packs are modular and small modules can be isolated and cut off if they over heat - preventing fires or explosions. And I can't remember the last time I heard of a laptop battery exploding; maybe 1st generation one, but the most modern units?
@SimonScuffam I understand your scepticism but many of your points are already being considered by manufacturers. Nissan, for example, will give you a rental car for long journeys as part of its Leaf leasing package. If 80-90% of average UK driving is within the range of the car, it suits many people very well.
@SimonScuffham The Nissan Leaf also has 24 kWh. Every car is range limited - not just electric ones. The difference is one can either pump flamable, toxic fuel into a tank and burn it or charge batteries. Charging takes more time. I wouldn't mind if I could get one now. No help from Mrs. Merkel as there are no German electric car nakers ready.
no argument, except that not everybody does short local journey's, and how do you propose to generate electricity in the first place? (Hint, please don't talk about wind power etc...).
Most cars these days can do 4-600Miles per fill, not less than 100 and then take several hours to re-charge.
I'm not anti-EV, just anti wildly optimistic hype about them.
@SimonScuffham I don't know about the UK but the US grid is about 45% coal, with the other 55% nuclear, NG, hydro, and wind. That means any car running on electricity is vastly cleaner than a petrol car, and all fuel used is domestic, which is extremely important. Care to guess at the emissions of two Gulf wars?
@SimonScuffham I am aware of all that since I've spent years on the subject. We need more electricity to refine gasonline and transport it multiple times than to charge a car for the same range. Some people seem to believe gas just magically arrives at the pump. Even if we use coal to produce electricity it's still much cleaner than a gasoline car ever can be. We use coal to produce the electricity to refine gas. Get it?
@SimonScuffham Not according to my sources. But let's assume you're right. How much oil do they burn to refine crude oil? How "clean" is that? Add that to your CO2 figure for gasoline cars, which shows how "dirty" they really are. At fast charging stations one can recharge 80% in less than 30 minutes. I need more time to do my grocery shopping or to have a meal. Yes, we will not all switch to electricity any time soon. That shouldn't stop those who can and want to.
so, you have an industrial capacity electricity supply at home do you?
do the maths, even a (relatively small) 24Kwh battery will need a 160A 240V supply if you plan on charging it to 80% in 30 mins (and that assumes 100% charger and battery efficiency which is clearly not going to happen).
@SimonScuffham I'm very good at math, logic, electronics etc.
230 V * 16 A = 3680 W, 24000 Wh/3680 W = 6,25 h (theoretical value - I'm fine with 8 h).
I've never claimed to have a fast charger at home or even want one. Do you have a gas pump at home? That's the kind of infrastructure being build in the USA and not currently being build in Germany. I could still live just fine without a fast charger. Most of the time my car is in my garage. No reason why I can't use that time for recharging.
It's current, not voltage, that is the largest factor in deciding whether an electric shock will cause any harm or even death. Having said that, chances are that very high currents are available from the 400 volt system in the car...
@c53204 oh, come on! This is standard practice for manufacturers of all manner of components for all manner of machines! It sayes nothing at all about the safety of the component but everything about the jumpy nature of the manufacturers insurance company! Silly comment.
I'm a bit confused and put off by the reluctance of car makers to release more purely electric automobiles. Electric car tech isn't going to be making big advances until the electric car becomes more properly part of mainstream life. With the environment scientists increasingly dire warnings, it seems akin to pausing indecisively at an intersection during the running of the bulls in Pamplona. Commit already!
So is 12V you just have to work a bit harder at getting killed
But if you want oh my god headline figures don't look at what a modern petrol car coil pack puts out as it is over 10,000V even a humble lawnmower is a few thousand volts
@thinfourth You have to remember the big difference between voltage and current. 12 volts is not considered life threatening, 110v can be, and in Europe, 220v is no doubt more dangerous. 400- volts with enough power to power a car has to be pretty dangerous, seems to me, but what do I know? I only took one year of electronics in college.
@bodryn A year at electrionics college and you never learnt about skin resistance. A small experiment i tell you not to do shove a pin in each arm so it breaches the skin and is in the body fluids and connect a car battery across the two.
@thinfourth Aw, don't you think I know about skin resistance? Don't you know it's the fact that high voltage can jump a larger arc of air, and that's what gets people. But you don't get killed by touching spark plug wires because there isn't enough power behind it to kill. I do imagine that completing a circuit, running 12v through the human body, especially the heart, would probably be enough to end one's earthly troubles. It wasn't an "electronics college". Why be rude?
@bodryn I wonder how long one would survive and exploding gas tank? Also life in a cylinder must be rather breath taking. You won't get anywhere near those 400 V.
@bodryn They don't. We do when we have to smell them or when they enter the upper atmosphere. I'm not saying we can and should stop using "regular" cars right away but using fewer of them and more electric ones would help. However, I'm not too happy about it but since I couldn't get an electric car *again* I resorted to buying a Diesel car today. I suppose I'll have to wait another 2-3 years to get something electric in Germany with enough space at an affordable price.
@bassbacke I saw an interesting report on gizmag about a car design using compressed air plus electronics that could double gas mileage! That would certainly be a nice option - gas/electric hybrids seem pretty good but compressed air scientifically used would mean never having to buy another battery, and would work equally well in cold climates as warm ones.
@MrChrisRab If I only knew the price for a Tesla Model S I might be able to know if I could afford it. I lease cars for a period of three years, My current lease ends in 4 weeks and like three years ago no electric cars available. This test on my patience is getting to me.
Strange that suppliers of batteries for RC models advise replacing any battery that has had an 'impact' i.e. a crash - even though no there may be no visible damage.
My largest gripe with these tests is that they answer a question "will hitting a wall at 50km/h damage the battery", rather than "what will happen when the battery _is_ damaged by the impact".
Explosion is a valid concern, the structure of a battery is not too dissimilar from a bomb (lots of finely interleaved reactants in a confined space), yet it stores more energy than a bomb. My hope is that the battery will burn out controllably without producing an explosion. Would love to see it tested.
@nbsr1 Hi. There isn't anything in these batteries that would be any more flammable than other plastic components in an average car. A properly designed battery unit will fuse out when shorted. There's a much greater risk of explosion in an ICE vehicle where there's always a spark and pressurized combustible fuel flowing.
one of teh first things i was thinking and i did not ask just because i was thinking its a normal question.... one of the reasons i went back to petrol.
Ugh, another prototype/trial car us mortals can not get our paws on. It looks great 'n all. But this trial malarky is all bit carrot & donkey, isn't it? Particularly when we know the batteries and motor are far from new tech.
And no performance stats? At all? *sigh*
Oh well, at least we know the lucky trial drivers are safe..
Interesting that you've never had safety questions, it's a common tactic of the FUD police to talk about batteries exploding, burning, and electrocuting everyone within a city block of an EV. Of course that's not the case and common sense would tell you that a battery is much safer than a flammable liquid in a sheet metal can.
Lithium fires are not funny, and whilst I am not about to say they happen all the time, they do happen (look how many issues the phone/laptop industry have had from cheap Li cells)
Yes, petrol is flammable, but when was the last time outside of Hollywood you have ever seen a car explode?
@SimonScuffham Actually when you consider the number of laptop cells that have been manufactured there have been very few fires. They don't use cheap laptop cells in vehicles, and other than Tesla no EV's use the LiCo cells, which are the ones that potentially have thermal runaway issues. Gas cars catch fire all the time, they may not always explode as in the movies but a battery is much more stable than liquid fuel.
@McRocket Suspect it was a 'freebie'. Ib Robert had to pay for all the 'factory visits' and the costs of borrowing such vehicles he would need to work for a living.
Nice used of the show's title in the sentence "to see what happens when a car with a fully charged battery crashes"! Nice film Bobby Llew- I want one too now!
Nice used of the show's title in the sentence "to see what happens when a car with a fully charged battery crashes"! Nice film Bobby Llew. I want one too now!
Fully charge show, booby lew, yogcast ,sixtysymbols are 4 of the Youtube shows i must watch strait away as soon as i see them great work! Looks like i might be going volvo!
besides, the key to being succesful in the EVs segment beyond the first wave of goodwill from municipals, fleets and dogooders like us is to make it light and aerodynamic. not the same old super primitive cast iron nonsense and total lack of any real aerodynamics.
and last I checked Volvo is not a thriving business. they could use some change and electrification is a unique opportunity for keen minds in a business of morons and oil buddies.
sure, diligent engineering involves crash considerations but that is hardly new. it's not like you want to be soaked in 50L gasoline in a crash.
one might make the pertinent observation that Volvo is talking crash safety to distract from the fact that the bastards still don't make EVs. the EV revolution was in 2006 (successful btw even though the hellbound car makers don't know it yet same as Mubarak) but now it's 2011 and they haven't even committed to a date yet have they.
You should have your own electric Stig and do stupid races in stupid places with stupid people.
jacksawild 9 months ago 3
What is the range of the electric C30? I like the normal Volvo C30 and I love the idea of it being electrical.
Lasse3333 9 months ago
Hey there Robert! Nice to see you visiting my country! :) Keep em coming!
Nichen 11 months ago
Mr television man, throughout your year driving the i-Miev you never told everyone that it is based on a petrol powered car and was then converted to electrcity. Reading one of your blog posts, you say Porsche 911 Turbo GT3, which is a car that doesn't exist and you say it does 15 mpg on a long run, it sould probably get between 20 and 25mpg depending on it being a turbo or GT3.
quwers 1 year ago
@quwers He actually did mention that the mitsu was ICE based originally, can't remember where but I'm sure he did.
grungerman 1 year ago
@grungerman wtf is ICE based?
quwers 1 year ago
@quwers Internal combustion engine, sorry.
grungerman 1 year ago
Heck, you should try and get Volvo to make you a testdriver of it.
So few EV's are actually good looking, but this one is.
Jesus45U 1 year ago
@douchebarge yes, they are for sale too, and, indeed, you can choose to buy at the end of the leasing period. Just seems that they've put an awful lot of thought into their leasing scheme so this, I suspect, will be the prefered choice for many.
timaustin2000 1 year ago
Neat car. Come on, Volvo! Bring it to market!
mjkobb 1 year ago
Will yo testdrive the Nissan Esflow?
lgrfbs 1 year ago
What about Ford electric cars? I have seen some adverts for US fully electric model.
braqoon 1 year ago
*Nissan and AC. Ruddy predictive text.
timaustin2000 1 year ago
@timaustin2000
It's funny though, I thought you were making a pun.
Certainly I've not seen any Leafs near where I live (a large city) so it would be appropriate- although I have heard that Nissan is in fact offering them for sale. Unfortunately I cannot afford one (nor any other new car) just yet.
douchebarge 1 year ago
Basically, EVs are viable for millions of people right now. Maybe not you; too bad, sorry to hear that. But they're ready and they're coming, whether you like it or not.
timaustin2000 1 year ago
A couple more points; 11% of all of the UKs electricity is used in oil refining. Fact. The Missing Leaf will charge to 50% capacity in under 2 hours on standard 240v av power. If you live 20 miles from work and you do some shopping on the go, you're almost certainly not going to need to charge your car for more than 4 hours a night. Why is it so difficult to imagine plugging your car in every night? I do it with my mobile phone!
timaustin2000 1 year ago
@JRP3 the UK grid is actually cleaner than the US. It's only 35% coal. Nearly a quarter of the grid is nuclear and renewable - pretty much carbon neutral. At UK rates, the amount of CO2 per mile of an EV vs. a similar sized petrol car is nearly half.
timaustin2000 1 year ago
And laptops do not have the power management and monitoring gubbins that you will find in a modern electric car. These battery packs are modular and small modules can be isolated and cut off if they over heat - preventing fires or explosions. And I can't remember the last time I heard of a laptop battery exploding; maybe 1st generation one, but the most modern units?
timaustin2000 1 year ago
@timaustin2000 Sorry, laptops all do have management built into their battery packs.
As for issues never happening, then why did Sony have to issue a worldwide recall on Li batterys?
SimonScuffham 1 year ago
@SimonScuffam I understand your scepticism but many of your points are already being considered by manufacturers. Nissan, for example, will give you a rental car for long journeys as part of its Leaf leasing package. If 80-90% of average UK driving is within the range of the car, it suits many people very well.
timaustin2000 1 year ago
SHIT camera work on the crash. why change point of view on first impact. DORK director.
shytcity3000 1 year ago
24Kwh is not going to get you very far though is it?
to put this in context, Tesla's little sportscar has a 53Kwh battery, and is still range limited.
SimonScuffham 1 year ago
@SimonScuffham The Nissan Leaf also has 24 kWh. Every car is range limited - not just electric ones. The difference is one can either pump flamable, toxic fuel into a tank and burn it or charge batteries. Charging takes more time. I wouldn't mind if I could get one now. No help from Mrs. Merkel as there are no German electric car nakers ready.
bassbacke 1 year ago
@bassbacke
no argument, except that not everybody does short local journey's, and how do you propose to generate electricity in the first place? (Hint, please don't talk about wind power etc...).
Most cars these days can do 4-600Miles per fill, not less than 100 and then take several hours to re-charge.
I'm not anti-EV, just anti wildly optimistic hype about them.
SimonScuffham 1 year ago
@SimonScuffham I don't know about the UK but the US grid is about 45% coal, with the other 55% nuclear, NG, hydro, and wind. That means any car running on electricity is vastly cleaner than a petrol car, and all fuel used is domestic, which is extremely important. Care to guess at the emissions of two Gulf wars?
JRP3 1 year ago
@SimonScuffham I am aware of all that since I've spent years on the subject. We need more electricity to refine gasonline and transport it multiple times than to charge a car for the same range. Some people seem to believe gas just magically arrives at the pump. Even if we use coal to produce electricity it's still much cleaner than a gasoline car ever can be. We use coal to produce the electricity to refine gas. Get it?
bassbacke 1 year ago
@bassbacke Oil refineries are not primarily powered by electricity, they burn oil.
SimonScuffham 1 year ago
@SimonScuffham Not according to my sources. But let's assume you're right. How much oil do they burn to refine crude oil? How "clean" is that? Add that to your CO2 figure for gasoline cars, which shows how "dirty" they really are. At fast charging stations one can recharge 80% in less than 30 minutes. I need more time to do my grocery shopping or to have a meal. Yes, we will not all switch to electricity any time soon. That shouldn't stop those who can and want to.
bassbacke 1 year ago
@bassbacke kin hell this is getting hard work!
so, you have an industrial capacity electricity supply at home do you?
do the maths, even a (relatively small) 24Kwh battery will need a 160A 240V supply if you plan on charging it to 80% in 30 mins (and that assumes 100% charger and battery efficiency which is clearly not going to happen).
SimonScuffham 1 year ago
@SimonScuffham I'm very good at math, logic, electronics etc.
230 V * 16 A = 3680 W, 24000 Wh/3680 W = 6,25 h (theoretical value - I'm fine with 8 h).
I've never claimed to have a fast charger at home or even want one. Do you have a gas pump at home? That's the kind of infrastructure being build in the USA and not currently being build in Germany. I could still live just fine without a fast charger. Most of the time my car is in my garage. No reason why I can't use that time for recharging.
bassbacke 1 year ago
It's current, not voltage, that is the largest factor in deciding whether an electric shock will cause any harm or even death. Having said that, chances are that very high currents are available from the 400 volt system in the car...
daquifsta 1 year ago
Any chance of an electric V50 in the future? I'd love an electric car but I need a bit more carrying capacity than a C30 or a Leaf.
sparkygl0s 1 year ago
And yes, my mind would feel more at ease in a BEV; there's a bomb in the back of my Ford Escort; its called a fuel tank.
timaustin2000 1 year ago
@c53204 oh, come on! This is standard practice for manufacturers of all manner of components for all manner of machines! It sayes nothing at all about the safety of the component but everything about the jumpy nature of the manufacturers insurance company! Silly comment.
timaustin2000 1 year ago
I'm a bit confused and put off by the reluctance of car makers to release more purely electric automobiles. Electric car tech isn't going to be making big advances until the electric car becomes more properly part of mainstream life. With the environment scientists increasingly dire warnings, it seems akin to pausing indecisively at an intersection during the running of the bulls in Pamplona. Commit already!
greyareaRK1 1 year ago
Wow! 400 volts?!? That's enough to electrocute anybody!
bodryn 1 year ago
@bodryn
So is 12V you just have to work a bit harder at getting killed
But if you want oh my god headline figures don't look at what a modern petrol car coil pack puts out as it is over 10,000V even a humble lawnmower is a few thousand volts
thinfourth 1 year ago
@thinfourth You have to remember the big difference between voltage and current. 12 volts is not considered life threatening, 110v can be, and in Europe, 220v is no doubt more dangerous. 400- volts with enough power to power a car has to be pretty dangerous, seems to me, but what do I know? I only took one year of electronics in college.
bodryn 1 year ago
@bodryn A year at electrionics college and you never learnt about skin resistance. A small experiment i tell you not to do shove a pin in each arm so it breaches the skin and is in the body fluids and connect a car battery across the two.
thinfourth 1 year ago
@thinfourth Aw, don't you think I know about skin resistance? Don't you know it's the fact that high voltage can jump a larger arc of air, and that's what gets people. But you don't get killed by touching spark plug wires because there isn't enough power behind it to kill. I do imagine that completing a circuit, running 12v through the human body, especially the heart, would probably be enough to end one's earthly troubles. It wasn't an "electronics college". Why be rude?
bodryn 1 year ago
@bodryn So 12 volts can be lethal I'm sure someone said it wasn't life threatening
thinfourth 1 year ago
@bodryn I wonder how long one would survive and exploding gas tank? Also life in a cylinder must be rather breath taking. You won't get anywhere near those 400 V.
bassbacke 1 year ago
@bassbacke I think I'm glad I don't live in a cylinder! Those poor exhaust gases must really suffer!
bodryn 1 year ago
@bodryn They don't. We do when we have to smell them or when they enter the upper atmosphere. I'm not saying we can and should stop using "regular" cars right away but using fewer of them and more electric ones would help. However, I'm not too happy about it but since I couldn't get an electric car *again* I resorted to buying a Diesel car today. I suppose I'll have to wait another 2-3 years to get something electric in Germany with enough space at an affordable price.
bassbacke 1 year ago
@bassbacke I saw an interesting report on gizmag about a car design using compressed air plus electronics that could double gas mileage! That would certainly be a nice option - gas/electric hybrids seem pretty good but compressed air scientifically used would mean never having to buy another battery, and would work equally well in cold climates as warm ones.
bodryn 1 year ago
Is there any estimated time to market for the all electric Volvo C 30?
Just like Robert, I want that one! (Or a Tesla Model S).
MrChrisRab 1 year ago
@MrChrisRab If I only knew the price for a Tesla Model S I might be able to know if I could afford it. I lease cars for a period of three years, My current lease ends in 4 weeks and like three years ago no electric cars available. This test on my patience is getting to me.
bassbacke 1 year ago
Strange that suppliers of batteries for RC models advise replacing any battery that has had an 'impact' i.e. a crash - even though no there may be no visible damage.
c53204 1 year ago
My largest gripe with these tests is that they answer a question "will hitting a wall at 50km/h damage the battery", rather than "what will happen when the battery _is_ damaged by the impact".
Explosion is a valid concern, the structure of a battery is not too dissimilar from a bomb (lots of finely interleaved reactants in a confined space), yet it stores more energy than a bomb. My hope is that the battery will burn out controllably without producing an explosion. Would love to see it tested.
nbsr1 1 year ago
@nbsr1 Hi. There isn't anything in these batteries that would be any more flammable than other plastic components in an average car. A properly designed battery unit will fuse out when shorted. There's a much greater risk of explosion in an ICE vehicle where there's always a spark and pressurized combustible fuel flowing.
JRoque250 1 year ago
wow you did not think about that?
one of teh first things i was thinking and i did not ask just because i was thinking its a normal question.... one of the reasons i went back to petrol.
LGSolutions 1 year ago
Ugh, another prototype/trial car us mortals can not get our paws on. It looks great 'n all. But this trial malarky is all bit carrot & donkey, isn't it? Particularly when we know the batteries and motor are far from new tech.
And no performance stats? At all? *sigh*
Oh well, at least we know the lucky trial drivers are safe..
Llitsor 1 year ago
Interesting that you've never had safety questions, it's a common tactic of the FUD police to talk about batteries exploding, burning, and electrocuting everyone within a city block of an EV. Of course that's not the case and common sense would tell you that a battery is much safer than a flammable liquid in a sheet metal can.
JRP3 1 year ago 14
@JRP3
sorry, that's just not the case though is it?
Lithium fires are not funny, and whilst I am not about to say they happen all the time, they do happen (look how many issues the phone/laptop industry have had from cheap Li cells)
Yes, petrol is flammable, but when was the last time outside of Hollywood you have ever seen a car explode?
SimonScuffham 1 year ago
@SimonScuffham Actually when you consider the number of laptop cells that have been manufactured there have been very few fires. They don't use cheap laptop cells in vehicles, and other than Tesla no EV's use the LiCo cells, which are the ones that potentially have thermal runaway issues. Gas cars catch fire all the time, they may not always explode as in the movies but a battery is much more stable than liquid fuel.
JRP3 1 year ago
Great vid Robert.
I was wondering - did you have to go and pay to see this car OR did Volvo pay you to come and see it?
Not that it means you are biased if they did - I am just wondering.
I actually think your love of electric vehicles is logical - I am just wondering.
If you have been - thanks for reading (lol).
McRocket 1 year ago
@McRocket Suspect it was a 'freebie'. Ib Robert had to pay for all the 'factory visits' and the costs of borrowing such vehicles he would need to work for a living.
c53204 1 year ago
Cool looking car, I must say.
Baiko 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Nice used of the show's title in the sentence "to see what happens when a car with a fully charged battery crashes"! Nice film Bobby Llew- I want one too now!
alexhartleyeco 1 year ago
Nice used of the show's title in the sentence "to see what happens when a car with a fully charged battery crashes"! Nice film Bobby Llew. I want one too now!
alexhartleyeco 1 year ago
I think volvo might make it worth it to own an electric car. Informative as usual Mr. L!
iucidium1982 1 year ago
Comment removed
LGD3 1 year ago
Fully charge show, booby lew, yogcast ,sixtysymbols are 4 of the Youtube shows i must watch strait away as soon as i see them great work! Looks like i might be going volvo!
jamiehasnomercy 1 year ago
besides, the key to being succesful in the EVs segment beyond the first wave of goodwill from municipals, fleets and dogooders like us is to make it light and aerodynamic. not the same old super primitive cast iron nonsense and total lack of any real aerodynamics.
and last I checked Volvo is not a thriving business. they could use some change and electrification is a unique opportunity for keen minds in a business of morons and oil buddies.
lean is stupid killer
DanFrederiksen 1 year ago
sure, diligent engineering involves crash considerations but that is hardly new. it's not like you want to be soaked in 50L gasoline in a crash.
one might make the pertinent observation that Volvo is talking crash safety to distract from the fact that the bastards still don't make EVs. the EV revolution was in 2006 (successful btw even though the hellbound car makers don't know it yet same as Mubarak) but now it's 2011 and they haven't even committed to a date yet have they.
DanFrederiksen 1 year ago
It does look really nice.
idontcare80 1 year ago
I Must say, It looks the part.
Oddsodz 1 year ago
Tantalising taste of the Volvo C3! Perhaps next we can see a longer review / expose, please?
sappha58 1 year ago
short but good
TBman256 1 year ago
Of all the electric cars this one looks best (well apart from the Teslas), but yeah it's looks great and seems like a fun car to drive.
szabiakanich 1 year ago 16