you seem intent on lambasting moe, he didn't say he actually did certain actions he did say it's what he saw in his minds eye and what he felt he did. leave the guy alone. or are you jelous.
@snbailes1 I have nothing against Moe. He said what he said (I heard him say it over and over) and he meant what he said. Plenty of good players don't really know what they actually do during their swings. I was trying to point that out to the people interested in swing mechanics. It is also true that I never saw Moe in his prime, and when I did see him I wasn't enamored of the strike he put on the ball. He definitely hit it straight, though.
@EagleEyeGolfer I don't know...I might have gotten some "amor" from watching Hogan or Snead after they were 60. Too bad I didn't know enough to search them out. I didn't see Hendrix, either.
After viewing it for several times and watched your Canada presentation. This swing, personally feel, should belong to those oldies whose back can't turn flexibly enough for complete swing. For youngsters may not be too suitable and can confuse them very much or drive them away from this game.
How do you justify that he was pulling the ball? I would expect the ball to look like it was going left of his foot line just like when looking down train tracks it looks like the left track goes to the right and the right track goes to the left. Your red lines look like train tracks to me.
@cockywatchman1976 Not sure. He didn't have a problem doing clinics later in his career, but certainly if he had been correctly diagnosed as a young man he may have been one of the greatest golfers of all time. He definitely suffered from social anxiety and had some odd verbal habits suggestive of the things you mention, but I don't know if anyone is sure as to what exactly he suffered from.
@wdefrancesco My ex's oldest son was autistic-so I know a bit bout it. It's very broad spectrum-at one end you have very very socially anxious people. At the other end autism can make people very outgoing and just seem eccentirc. There aren't really strict rules (well there are parameters for diagnosis). He clearly has traits that would explain his behaviour, but also his practice philosphy and obsessive tendancy. One thing I can tell you is that autistic people can be super talented at some
@cockywatchman1976 contd things, particularly if they find it interesting. Yet othert simple things seem impossible-particularly if deemed boring! Whatever he had, he's an interesting guy and golfer. Baffles me people who want to use him as a swing model, but thats up to them!
Nice analysis. Moe I believe was just a very very talented golf player. He said himself he could 'see' in his mind exactly what he wanted to do. This is KEY!! However, the fact that he hit millions of balls, coupled to his natural ability no doubt helped. Also, in common with some other great players, what he felt he was doing and what actually happened, weren't the same. Jim Furyk is another great example, as what he says he 'feels' is not what happens. To score 59 though is amazing Moe .RIP!
When he was younger he didnt use the palm grip on the right hand and he lifted his left heel on the backswing. I just wonder if he changed for the Natural Golf folks?
i enjoy watching moe's video clips but i also agree that some of the things he said didn't make much sense. also, why did they create "natural golf" after moes swing? although he had a great swing, i would call his swing anything but natural!!!
@da19570 Every time I play, although then I have to keep playing the rest of the round. Look, I'm not disparaging Moe Norman. I make two points: one, he hit the ball straight but when I watched him he didn't compress it impressively, and two, when he insisted he moved the clubhead down the line 22 inches he really didn't. In fact, it didn't move down the line at all. Both things were surprising to me given Moe's reputation.
Wayne, I'm not surprised to hear you say what you did. It's my belief that golfers who pick the ball, not taking much of a divot, are actually hitting it at least a groove down from the center. Norman used to talk about how he hardly took any divots, so he perhaps fit that profile. The term "compressing" the ball is deceptive, I think. What players thus describe is, I believe, simply a function of actually getting the center of the clubface down to the equator of the ball at contact.
@wdefrancesco But Johnny Miller says that he and Moe kept the clubface squarer than anybody, for over two feet through impact!!!!! Imagine if I were serious right now. It's weird when people are good at golf yet delusional about what they are really doing. Moe clearly had some kind of mental thing going on that seemed to go undiagnosed. Miller however, clearly has a case of Doucheman's disease. The main symptom being whenever he opens his mouth he sounds like a huge douche.
@wdefrancesco But Johnny Miller says that he and Moe kept the clubface squarer than anybody, for over two feet through impact!!!!! Imagine if I were serious right now. It's weird when people are good at golf yet delusional about what they are really doing. Moe clearly had some kind of mental thing going on that seemed to go undiagnosed. Miller however, clearly has a case of Doucheman's disease. The main symptom being whenever he opens his mouth he sounds like a huge douche.
As an investor in Natural Golf (RIP) I am proud to have played a role in bringing Moe to the attention of American golfers. He was the greatest ball striker (not player) ever. Into his late 60s he hit EVERY shot dead straight. Moe's autism left him incapable of competing on the world stage. He was born 2 months before Palmer. With average emotional intelligence, he would have won double digit Majors, taking them from Arnie, Gary and Jack. His single axis grip is the stuff of genius.
@BounceRH2 yep, he was basically autistic and ended up flopping in the us tournament he was in, it didn't help that they didn't approve of how eccentric he was. He won a lot in canada but that is like kissing your sister, LOL, just kidding, kind of
@spartanstackandtilt Steve Stricker, Tim Herron, Stuart Appleby, Michael Campbell, Mike Weir, Stephen Ames, Notah Begay, Kirk Triplett, Todd Hamilton, Tim Clark...
@sidecar771 I'm assuming these are all men you find attractive, LOL, just kidding, Canada produced some talent, no doubt. I respect Moe, great golfer, facts are facts, he didn't do well in the usa and these other guys have won but they are nothing compared to what canada truly gave the world, JUSTIN BIEBER.
Great analysis. However I'm very wondering whether at address or even at impact, Moe's eyes are on the ball at all. It really does appear to me his eyes are not on the ball. Please let me know your thoughts.
greatgolfpb@yahoo.com I was teaching and playing pro at Woodmont CC in Rockville ,MD during the mid 60s.Nothing has really changed.The video makes the difference.great stuff.
One last point; you can use all the geometry and cameras in the world. What Moe meant by swinging down the line is this; He used his body, ie extension to great advantage to get it to the target. Maybe he had a slightly closed stance, but hey, you can still get it back to the target, open or closed. I still believe Moe had the purest and simplest Golf swing ever and his ball striking, even in Trevino's opinion was the purest...
Without taking a single thing from Mo's achievments I think its fair to say that if you hit as many balls as Mo did in his life time you could make almost any style work for you. Witness messers Darcy, Furyk, and Calvin Peete, to name a few. As we know its all about returning the clubface square at impact. Isnt it amazing how much time is spent analysing golf swings but we all know its not about that, is it. Its about playing the game. The truly great players know/knew how to play the game. :)
@nomadthebiker "The truly great players know/knew how to play the game...Pretty obvious, don't you think? If they didn't know how to play the game they wouldn't have been any good and we wouldn't be the least bit interested in how they swing the club. Hitting the ball is a huge part of playing the game. Anyone who suggests that it's all mental is either Jack Nicklaus or doesn't play golf, or at least not competitively. Also, there are plenty of people who hit millions of balls to no avail.
@wdefrancesco I have been playing the game of Golf since I was 10 years old and I am now almost 57. I can assure you that good Golfers know that 75% of the game is mental. If you try to over-think, all kinds of things creep into the psyche. Example; if you try to muscle the ball too much, you are then swinging at the ball and not swinging thru the ball. In other words if you get too tied up in mechanics, you cannot make your best swing. Let your higher mind do the swinging and not your ego!!
@watertonrivers I've been playing since I was 10, competing since I was 12, and I am now 53 years old. I can assure you that until you are a very good player the mental game means next to nothing. What difference does it make how you think or feel about hitting a ball if you can't produce the physical mechanism with which to hit it? Moe was a gifted player with an amazing swing. I wish I had seen him when he was younger. But he said "clubhead" 22 inches down the line, and he meant what he said
@watertonrivers Garbage-mental is important, but hackers are hackers because they have garbage technique. For those who have mastered the game, yes, mental can be the difference. But Id put it 90% technique
some sage analysis, wayne. what do you think of his palm/hammer grip? i feel that if you grip it that way the motor that drives the swing becomes more arms/torso and less lower body.
I heard that he started with his club so far behind the ball because he had a swing sequence of Hogan he always carried with him that had the first few frames missing.
Moe Never went to doctors or dentists.
mikepa67 1 week ago
you seem intent on lambasting moe, he didn't say he actually did certain actions he did say it's what he saw in his minds eye and what he felt he did. leave the guy alone. or are you jelous.
snbailes1 4 weeks ago
@snbailes1 I have nothing against Moe. He said what he said (I heard him say it over and over) and he meant what he said. Plenty of good players don't really know what they actually do during their swings. I was trying to point that out to the people interested in swing mechanics. It is also true that I never saw Moe in his prime, and when I did see him I wasn't enamored of the strike he put on the ball. He definitely hit it straight, though.
wdefrancesco 4 weeks ago
@wdefrancesco I suppose it's hard to be "enamored" by watching anyone who's 60 yrs plus hitting golf balls, lol.
EagleEyeGolfer 13 hours ago
@EagleEyeGolfer I don't know...I might have gotten some "amor" from watching Hogan or Snead after they were 60. Too bad I didn't know enough to search them out. I didn't see Hendrix, either.
wdefrancesco 12 hours ago
@wdefrancesco lol, yeah, i heard that Hendrix dude was pretty damn good.
EagleEyeGolfer 9 hours ago
He's got a video out fairly recently where he claims he does a different move.
watch?v=UEV-SR8Q_nI
Is he?
dschultz6072 1 month ago
After viewing it for several times and watched your Canada presentation. This swing, personally feel, should belong to those oldies whose back can't turn flexibly enough for complete swing. For youngsters may not be too suitable and can confuse them very much or drive them away from this game.
fourdulai 1 month ago
the steeper the plane the more "down the line" the clubhead will travel.
Nicklaus = steep
moe= flat
rw5791 1 month ago
How do you justify that he was pulling the ball? I would expect the ball to look like it was going left of his foot line just like when looking down train tracks it looks like the left track goes to the right and the right track goes to the left. Your red lines look like train tracks to me.
bunkerputt 5 months ago
Wayne do we know if he had autism or aspergers? As you say he was very strange and it'd explain a lot.
cockywatchman1976 6 months ago
@cockywatchman1976 Not sure. He didn't have a problem doing clinics later in his career, but certainly if he had been correctly diagnosed as a young man he may have been one of the greatest golfers of all time. He definitely suffered from social anxiety and had some odd verbal habits suggestive of the things you mention, but I don't know if anyone is sure as to what exactly he suffered from.
wdefrancesco 6 months ago
@wdefrancesco My ex's oldest son was autistic-so I know a bit bout it. It's very broad spectrum-at one end you have very very socially anxious people. At the other end autism can make people very outgoing and just seem eccentirc. There aren't really strict rules (well there are parameters for diagnosis). He clearly has traits that would explain his behaviour, but also his practice philosphy and obsessive tendancy. One thing I can tell you is that autistic people can be super talented at some
cockywatchman1976 6 months ago
@cockywatchman1976 contd things, particularly if they find it interesting. Yet othert simple things seem impossible-particularly if deemed boring! Whatever he had, he's an interesting guy and golfer. Baffles me people who want to use him as a swing model, but thats up to them!
cockywatchman1976 6 months ago
@wdefrancesco i believe he was hit by a car at an early age
nskpsycho 4 months ago
Nice analysis. Moe I believe was just a very very talented golf player. He said himself he could 'see' in his mind exactly what he wanted to do. This is KEY!! However, the fact that he hit millions of balls, coupled to his natural ability no doubt helped. Also, in common with some other great players, what he felt he was doing and what actually happened, weren't the same. Jim Furyk is another great example, as what he says he 'feels' is not what happens. To score 59 though is amazing Moe .RIP!
justjames1111 7 months ago
When he was younger he didnt use the palm grip on the right hand and he lifted his left heel on the backswing. I just wonder if he changed for the Natural Golf folks?
deanw0rmer 7 months ago
i enjoy watching moe's video clips but i also agree that some of the things he said didn't make much sense. also, why did they create "natural golf" after moes swing? although he had a great swing, i would call his swing anything but natural!!!
dettigs 8 months ago
How many times have you shot 59.
da19570 8 months ago
@da19570 Every time I play, although then I have to keep playing the rest of the round. Look, I'm not disparaging Moe Norman. I make two points: one, he hit the ball straight but when I watched him he didn't compress it impressively, and two, when he insisted he moved the clubhead down the line 22 inches he really didn't. In fact, it didn't move down the line at all. Both things were surprising to me given Moe's reputation.
wdefrancesco 8 months ago
Wayne, I'm not surprised to hear you say what you did. It's my belief that golfers who pick the ball, not taking much of a divot, are actually hitting it at least a groove down from the center. Norman used to talk about how he hardly took any divots, so he perhaps fit that profile. The term "compressing" the ball is deceptive, I think. What players thus describe is, I believe, simply a function of actually getting the center of the clubface down to the equator of the ball at contact.
EternalAnachronism 5 months ago
@wdefrancesco But Johnny Miller says that he and Moe kept the clubface squarer than anybody, for over two feet through impact!!!!! Imagine if I were serious right now. It's weird when people are good at golf yet delusional about what they are really doing. Moe clearly had some kind of mental thing going on that seemed to go undiagnosed. Miller however, clearly has a case of Doucheman's disease. The main symptom being whenever he opens his mouth he sounds like a huge douche.
smithersandburns 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@wdefrancesco But Johnny Miller says that he and Moe kept the clubface squarer than anybody, for over two feet through impact!!!!! Imagine if I were serious right now. It's weird when people are good at golf yet delusional about what they are really doing. Moe clearly had some kind of mental thing going on that seemed to go undiagnosed. Miller however, clearly has a case of Doucheman's disease. The main symptom being whenever he opens his mouth he sounds like a huge douche.
smithersandburns 1 week ago
As an investor in Natural Golf (RIP) I am proud to have played a role in bringing Moe to the attention of American golfers. He was the greatest ball striker (not player) ever. Into his late 60s he hit EVERY shot dead straight. Moe's autism left him incapable of competing on the world stage. He was born 2 months before Palmer. With average emotional intelligence, he would have won double digit Majors, taking them from Arnie, Gary and Jack. His single axis grip is the stuff of genius.
ctarbeck 9 months ago
So Wayne, you saw Moe in person, what was his ball striking like?
Memnet 9 months ago
....did he say Moe was basically strange and he couldnt do anything with his swing???
BounceRH2 10 months ago
@BounceRH2 yep, he was basically autistic and ended up flopping in the us tournament he was in, it didn't help that they didn't approve of how eccentric he was. He won a lot in canada but that is like kissing your sister, LOL, just kidding, kind of
spartanstackandtilt 9 months ago
@spartanstackandtilt Steve Stricker, Tim Herron, Stuart Appleby, Michael Campbell, Mike Weir, Stephen Ames, Notah Begay, Kirk Triplett, Todd Hamilton, Tim Clark...
sidecar771 2 months ago
@sidecar771 I'm assuming these are all men you find attractive, LOL, just kidding, Canada produced some talent, no doubt. I respect Moe, great golfer, facts are facts, he didn't do well in the usa and these other guys have won but they are nothing compared to what canada truly gave the world, JUSTIN BIEBER.
spartanstackandtilt 2 months ago
Great analysis. However I'm very wondering whether at address or even at impact, Moe's eyes are on the ball at all. It really does appear to me his eyes are not on the ball. Please let me know your thoughts.
lawwarrior 10 months ago
greatgolfpb@yahoo.com I was teaching and playing pro at Woodmont CC in Rockville ,MD during the mid 60s.Nothing has really changed.The video makes the difference.great stuff.
TheLindab1950 11 months ago
One last point; you can use all the geometry and cameras in the world. What Moe meant by swinging down the line is this; He used his body, ie extension to great advantage to get it to the target. Maybe he had a slightly closed stance, but hey, you can still get it back to the target, open or closed. I still believe Moe had the purest and simplest Golf swing ever and his ball striking, even in Trevino's opinion was the purest...
watertonrivers 11 months ago
Without taking a single thing from Mo's achievments I think its fair to say that if you hit as many balls as Mo did in his life time you could make almost any style work for you. Witness messers Darcy, Furyk, and Calvin Peete, to name a few. As we know its all about returning the clubface square at impact. Isnt it amazing how much time is spent analysing golf swings but we all know its not about that, is it. Its about playing the game. The truly great players know/knew how to play the game. :)
nomadthebiker 1 year ago
@nomadthebiker "The truly great players know/knew how to play the game...Pretty obvious, don't you think? If they didn't know how to play the game they wouldn't have been any good and we wouldn't be the least bit interested in how they swing the club. Hitting the ball is a huge part of playing the game. Anyone who suggests that it's all mental is either Jack Nicklaus or doesn't play golf, or at least not competitively. Also, there are plenty of people who hit millions of balls to no avail.
wdefrancesco 1 year ago
@wdefrancesco So we agree then. Carry on the good work, its very enjoyable :)
nomadthebiker 1 year ago
@wdefrancesco I have been playing the game of Golf since I was 10 years old and I am now almost 57. I can assure you that good Golfers know that 75% of the game is mental. If you try to over-think, all kinds of things creep into the psyche. Example; if you try to muscle the ball too much, you are then swinging at the ball and not swinging thru the ball. In other words if you get too tied up in mechanics, you cannot make your best swing. Let your higher mind do the swinging and not your ego!!
watertonrivers 11 months ago 2
@watertonrivers I've been playing since I was 10, competing since I was 12, and I am now 53 years old. I can assure you that until you are a very good player the mental game means next to nothing. What difference does it make how you think or feel about hitting a ball if you can't produce the physical mechanism with which to hit it? Moe was a gifted player with an amazing swing. I wish I had seen him when he was younger. But he said "clubhead" 22 inches down the line, and he meant what he said
wdefrancesco 11 months ago
@watertonrivers Garbage-mental is important, but hackers are hackers because they have garbage technique. For those who have mastered the game, yes, mental can be the difference. But Id put it 90% technique
cockywatchman1976 6 months ago
some sage analysis, wayne. what do you think of his palm/hammer grip? i feel that if you grip it that way the motor that drives the swing becomes more arms/torso and less lower body.
blandhoney 1 year ago
moe norman didnt have a great golf resume??? you make me laugh
BoHoVsGolf 1 year ago
Wayne, where is the article you mention? I have looked on your site and can't find it.
hyphnz 1 year ago
Baseball grip!
greatwalloftroy 1 year ago
sweet.. i was wanted a moe norman analysis considering he is the best canadian golfer ever.
MoeNormanIdeology 1 year ago
Have you seen the Moe Norman Ceremony six part video?
Tigersmundo 1 year ago
I heard that he started with his club so far behind the ball because he had a swing sequence of Hogan he always carried with him that had the first few frames missing.
golfball85 1 year ago
We need a Trevino video...thanks Wayne
Nightwing690 1 year ago