Im starting to love your videos, so mature, so much truth. Im an atheist and i love it how you also not exactly pretend, but be open minded if you were a believer. Keep up your good work
Pino, I believe you are a good parent in every way except one, and you know what that is. But I fear that part of the reason you reject God might be that you fear that your child may have a bad destiny if they, like you, reject God. It's a vicious circle. I believe you want what's best for your child, but i also believe that you are making the ultimate poor decision on their behalf.
A thought-provoking opinion. It causd me to think about my expectations of my kids. I'm athiest too, but I never thought about it in terms of parenting. Good take.
Really great vlog- . Overall for the 'owe' and 'deserve'(these are so often confused) sentiment and the responsibilty of creation. My father left when I was a small child and the life that he continues to create is a constant dissapointment and I have often thought, in a metaphysical sense, that what he owed to me, that he neglected, is somehow a constant haunt-the universal law disrupted in a way. If this makes any sense. I agree with you 100% Thank you for your thoughtful videos.
My point is that his outlook that children "owe" their parents nothing will change with time - someday he will wake up and understand. (Of course, what "obligation" means can be debated, too.) But, of course, the real point of his video is using that faulty premise and comparing it to our relationship with God.
That you disagree is patently obvious, but you have yet to support any of your claims with any solid arguments. What, exactly, would a child "owe" its parent? Please elaborate. But you can't, can you?
I love my children. I do nothing for them out of a sense of obligation or duty. I do it because I love them, and I give it freely. Love is not a duty! You can't choose to love, you either do or don't, and I for one would give my life for my children if it were me or them, because I love them. They love me too, but they owe me NOTHING. Love isn't bartering for goodness sake.
One has to wonder how well you know this God of yours, if you imagine love is service and duty.
Love is much more than a feeling. It is laying down your life whether you feel like it or not. And, quite the contrary, yes, you choose to love. Real love is an act of the will. That is real love - love that involves the heart, the mind, the will...Service and duty are part of that.
No, they are not. If you raise your child well, and you are lucky, they will extend their love and gratitude to you. If they don't, you can't blame anybody but yourself for that. And the same goes for any "creator god".
Indeed. A parent owes their child a good upbringing, a roof over its head, support, etcetera. Love can only come naturally, from both sides, and count yourself lucky if that happens.
Oh right? The carrot don't work, so let's wield the stick.
"our Creator" is nothing of the sort. What you're talking about is YOUR imaginary friend. Your figment of your imagination. Your sky fairy. And unless you can support its existence with anything other than empty rhetoric, please do not expect me to take it seriously.
> morality - And where do you think that comes from?
Certainly not from your mythical über-troll
My morality is based on my empathy with others, my understanding (to the best of my ability) of human emotion, my realisation that others are just like me, and an understanding (same) of how my actions might impact on society. Think about it and you'll see how a lot of morality follows quite naturally. No God necessary.
Wow Pino, I'm really interested in hearing your response to xxbutton...
To: xxbutton... if you want to talk about not feeling lonely, send me a pm. Pino made a video about me but if you look at my real channel (nodrahma) you might see that I am not as evil as he made me out to be. Seriously though... if you want to talk, I will listen.
Interesting perspective. I would argue that nobody 'owes' anyone anything at all. We normally want the very best for our children so we do everything we can for them but I'm not sure it's from a feeling of debt. That perspective seems to have negative implications for having been born in the first place. Like, "I'm so sorry we brought you into the world". Great turnaround, though!
Not really, Jim. It's more about taking responsibility. I created my child, so I have to accept responsibility for that. And with that comes obligation.
I understand, but you don't really owe them anything unless there is a higher power commanding it. People use to euthanize children that couldn't be taken care of. I know it sounds horrifying but that's the naked reality. We decide to take responsibility or we don't. It's a choice plenty of people decide not to make and instead, let society assume the obligation.
We agree, then. How do you feel about it when people feel entitled to a lifestyle for their children and themselves (healthy and capable)without having to provide it? Rely on social programs, etc. Just curious.
Good of you to mention it. In fact humans have a society they can fall back on if they themselves are unable to meet their obligations (as I see it). A hypothetical God like the Christian one has no such fall back, and therefore cannot escape his responsibilities. If he existed, that is. It's easier for humans.
So, you make a distinction between people who are capable of supporting themselves and their families and people who are unable to because of health reasons, etc. If so, I totally agree. I tend to be liberal in that respect.
Pino...Hell was made for the devil and his angels. The devil knows there is a God and he trembles.(unlike you) The devil hates God and all God creation. You need to really find out who the real enemy of your soul is. Its not God for he has sent his son Jesus Christ to redeem man from the penelty of there sins. We are guilty and you need to realized this. After death is the judgement. All mankind will keep that appointment.Jesus Christ is your only remedy.
roze--yes well once again its about perspective. you have a certain set of presuppositions you're bringing to the discussion regarding life and parental relationships with their children.
It's pretty obvious where, when a parent creates a child, the responsibility lies. And the obligation comes with the responsibility. It needs a particularly twisted logic to deny THAT.
Right, and as a loving parent, I don't expect my kids to be perfect, or to stay on the phone with me all through the day (christians/prayer) or to give me credit for every right thing they do, and take the blame themselves for every wrong thing. And I didn't assign an evil little troll to follow them constantly, trying to get them to mess up at every opportunity (satan) Ugh.
My father murdered + abandonded by my mom. orphanages sux, foster parents beat me, and sexually abused me. Who do i depend on? I like your nod video but now I don't feel like nodding. I guess peple with familys are better.
Thanks, but who do I depend on? Who should feel gratitude in my life? My foster parents? I just don't get what you are trying to say in this video... I'm trying to apply it to my life but I can't. Can you help? Or is there a different philosophy you have for people like me?
No. It's not about gratitude; from parent to child there should be an obligation of care, etc, etc. I'm very sorry to hear that your parents - and society - have failed you. I hope you have managed to find somebody who cares now, but you seem to have had a hard deal. That is definitely not fair, and you didn't deserve that. :-(
But my video is about those who expect us to be grateful to, and worship their imaginary God who purportedly created us. Well, even if we accepted the existence of such a God - which I won't for a moment - we owe it nothing. And it owes us big time. See also my conversation with Barklord.
The truth is, I don't think anyone really cares... I mean, they say they do, and try to sympathize, but after that, they don't really seem to care. I guess I am lost in your philosophy on dependency. I assume I can depend on myself as it is the only one I can depend on, but it gets lonely... you know? Very lonely.
i do open up... all the time... i've been through support groups and therapy all my life. And the truth is... they are good at giving advice and sympathizing and it makes me feel good at the moment but after that... when i am just by myself, regardless of how many friends I have, I still feel lonely. Like empty inside. I am just trying to relate to people who seem to have everything (familys, etc.) And I want to feel happy like them, but I don't have what they have.
Ok. I think this is going to be very hard. Of course I have absolutely no idea what you've gone through or what you're going through now as all I have to go from are these comments. But let me try. (more...)
I think what may be the problem with support groups and therapy is that in the end the people you're talking to and opening up to do not have any emotional investment in you. You're a case to them, or someone in a similar situation to themselves, and either they try to help you professionally, or their main focus is on helping themselves. (more...)
Therefore I think the only way you can get over the loneliness is to find someone to start an actual relationship with. But of course that is extremely difficult for you, precisely because you have been let down so much already (more...)
Starting a relationship is risky at the best of times, and to someone carrying the sort of burden you appear to be carrying it must seem like one of the scariest things you could possibly do. Plus of course, how are you even going to find someone, and who might possibly like you that much? (more...)
But if you start looking at people around you from that perspective you might notice someone of the right temperament. And all you can do then is work hard at it. There is absolutely no guarantee of success. And even if you manage to start a relationship, so often people are let down in them. And that might be the final straw for you if that were to happen. BUT...
... if it DOES work out, it's worth all that pain. I've been there. I was single, and lonely, well beyond my mid twenties. I finally found that person, and pushed myself beyond my fear. And I got incredibly lucky. And if you don't try, it'll never happen.
I hope this was somewhat helpful. I hope I haven't made things worse with my comments. I wish you the best of luck.
I'm glad you got "incredibly lucky", but what about the rest of us who don't... I mean, I could only imagine you are with another non-believer as you don't seem like the type who would be with someone who is religious. (I could be wrong) Who could respect believers... ya know? How do we get around that?
Her and her family are respectful people but how could I respect her if I think she is deluded? Who can respect deluded people? I mean that's the whole point of our fight, right? So if the general is in bed with the enemy, how does he respect himself? I don't mean to be direct and if I am misguided, let me know.
Tell her honestly that you cannot share her beliefs. Those are only part of what she is about, surely. If she can accept that, you can respect that about her.
I try to talk some sense into her, but she seems very happy and content in her beliefs. She is a very smart attractive girl but I don't know how I could respect her if I constantly see her following a delusion. Ya know? I just don't get those fundies.
Indeed. I would have problems with that too. Even though my wife is from a very religious Catholic background, her family also has a very deep sense of tolerance and acceptance of the different beliefs - or lack thereof - of others. If that were missing I don't think I could have been able to accept it.
Yeah, but we as atheists have a deep intolerance of religions and beliefs. What is your secret in covering that up with her? You know... because if I was with a believer, I would want them to come to reality and get with the program or else I could only see them as delusional. I can't respect delusional people. ya know?
The secret is not to cover it up. She knows I am an atheist, and that I cannot believe in her god. But I can believe in her.
I don't call her delusional. I call her not rational. But we all have some beliefs that are not rational. And as long as those don't include things that are clearly in conflict with observed reality, or that make her look down on me, I have no issue with them.
She accepts the reality of things like evolution. She accepts that the universe is about 15 billion years old. She doesn't believe in the literal truth of biblical creation myths and the likes. She doesn't believe I'm condemned because I don't believe. She does believe in a few strange things that, given the lack of evidence, I can't believe in. But nothing that stands in the way of how we feel about each other.
I do not understand you here. Aren't we supposed to be rebooting people's minds... not supporting the belief system. You seem to have built this youtube empire as a means of what? A means of retaliation for feelings of inadequacy bestowed upon you by the church? But behind the scenes, you are supporting it? I just think that sounds very two-faced. Are you really the Pino you appear to be in your videos? I am starting to lose respect for you.
Ok, my situation aside. You are kind of losing me here. I happened to notice some comments on another video you made. In it you say, referring to your wife's involvement with her church. "I will be involved in further events taking place this year" Obviously she is devoted enough to be involved in extracurricular activities at the church so god must mean a lot to her. Not only that, but you are helping the enemy by supporting her parish?
I do know one girl, but she is very religious and I know her family is too. She is probably one of the most genuine people I know... but because she is religious... I think that would create difficulties. I just know because I have hung out with her family and they have asked me if I know Jesus. I don't want to be disingenuous with them but I know that if we were together, it would involve religion.
Still though. Don't rule it out altogether. If you are not religious, and from this comment it seems like that is the case, talk to the girl about that. Maybe it'll be OK with her too. She might be one of those people who believe Christ saved ALL of humanity by dying on the cross, and that would include you, whether you believe or not. In that case I see no reason why you and she couldn't find a middle ground (more...)
For example, my wife and I realised that even though our belief systems were very different, our moral codes were quite compatible. That is very important in how we raise our kid. But we do sometimes disagree on things. But we can see beyond that.
If you feel there is a chance with this girl, please do NOT let her belief system, or yours, get in the way of taking your relationship further.
Yeah, but I know it will. I want to be with someone I can respect. I am really curious how to love a person while watching them deluding themselves. Morals aside... compatibility still involves complete respect... or is there another way of explaining it?
Nope. You got that spot on. Compatibility does involve complete respect. I'll flesh that out in my response to your comment on the teachings in the bible.
Yeah, but I know the teachings in the bible... I studied it. If she believes that then she isn't believing the right thing. If there were such a man as jeebus, it's very clear in the bible that we are to humble ourselves to him. I couldn't do that nor could i watch someone else do that. I could never get over it. What is your secret?
Well, yes, of course, but I always look at it this way: religion is not what it says in a holy book, it's what the believer makes of that within their head. How they do that is their business, but if, contrary to the literal text of the bible, she can make a belief system for herself that is truly tolerant, then I can respect her, even if I can't respect the bible.
I have started many relationships... but my heart has been broken. It is not difficult for me at all. The thing is, when you know what you want in a person, from going through so many, you find it harder and harder to find a good decent person.
Yes. That is very true, and that is the risk I am alluding to. And honestly I don't think there is an easy answer to that problem other than keep trying. If you feel like it.
But I have made friends in the support groups. When we are together I feel happy but... at the end of the day when it is time to be with myself, I don't feel anything. Don't get me wrong, I'm not codependent, I am actually very independent, but I still feel empty. You know?
The concept of a creator god that demands our devotion and worship or we will be tortured eternally is a grotesque concept indeed. Such a god is unworthy of worship.
The Calvinist concept of god is even more horrifying: a god that creates us, and tortures us eternally not because of any choice we make, but just because he chooses to.
HEY!! so after what I wrote before, I looked for it here and found it--I just love this song!-I used to know it --now not sure--it's been a long time-but here it is-makes me almost cry-though I didn't live there-I was in Zuidland
I have two children that are technically adults (just over 18) and a 12 year old. I am a parent every day to all 3. Those are my credentials. Therefore I can safely say that you are absolutely right about parenting. Regarding the comparison to our 'creator'? Absolutely GOD DAMN right!
Thanks. It's a hard realisation when it first hits you, but then you learn to appreciate those signs of love you do get all the more when you do your job right and they do come.
But Pino, that's not what it says in the X Commandments (about either G or your parents). I'm having trouble deciding which is right: you or the 10 rules. Hmmm...
*bows down* I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy! LOL Another great Vid. I have a 13 yr old daughter, and a 12 yr. old son, and boy are they a handful now that they are preteens. Love them, though! ~Steph
Interesting synopsis. I'm pondering inserting a "devil's advocate" idea into this, but I refrain. I do agree in many ways with your statement, but I think there's more to this than the basic precepts outlined here... still, I agree with you, though with some reservations.
I understand. The last thing you'd want as a parent is some obnoxious ingrate for a child. But that doesn't mean the child owes you anything. It just means that you should be grateful if your relationship is a happy one.
Replace the "god" angle with "nature," and ask yourself if we shouldn't feel positive sentiments and perhaps gratitude towards "nature" for our existence. Without life, we are nothing. With life, we are presented with possibilities that a rock will never have. I have gratitude and love for nature.
Yes, me too. But I don't *owe* it that. I have a great relationship with my parents. I love them. I'm grateful that they brought me up the way they did. But I don't *owe* them that. They don't deserve it. But they earned it. Over and over again.
Owing something to someone denotes an obligation. I think someone who feels obliged to feel a certain way in gratitude, and doing it willingly, without reservation and because it feels good to do so, probably has better character than someone that says, "I don't owe anything to anyone, so I will give nothing in return for what I expect should be given to me." Hey, Pino, did you see that video geerup made about you? Phhht...
Yeah, Pino, I watched it. He has a new totally ridiculous video about some kind of "Atheist's Creed." I think he needs to reboot his mind so badly. I think it may be a hopeless case... the indoctrination is so overwhelmingly complete. To think that everything coming from his mouth is just things he had learned from others...
Unh can I hire you to talk to my mother? Name your price.
Pino-I think no one on YT has as much grace as you do. My husband will also love this video. When I grow up, I wanna be just like you. I say that seldom to people, but when I do, I mean it.
We need a European YT Atheist weekend. --or week--that's harder for you than me but it would be great. I vote Den Hague,...mooie stad achter de duinen....
Naturally just the shitbees. We wouldn't wan't to spoil the ambiance; burn down a forrest, just eat hamburgers, be drunk all the time, or anything similarly 'fun'.
wow great points pino, powerfull stuff. favorited. theists completely fail to understand this. they all rant on and on about free will and it's men's choice to sin. but then why did god not give us to choice to exist in the first place? isnt that a violation of free will?
This sounds like a very good parenting philosophy. I think many parents end up thinking that their children owe them everything.
I like to compare the Christian God to a 13-year old capricious little girl. "What? You don't want to be my friend? WELL FUCK YOU! BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY, BITCHES!" =)
Im starting to love your videos, so mature, so much truth. Im an atheist and i love it how you also not exactly pretend, but be open minded if you were a believer. Keep up your good work
zombieiscool 3 years ago
Thanks!
rozeboosje 3 years ago
Pino, I believe you are a good parent in every way except one, and you know what that is. But I fear that part of the reason you reject God might be that you fear that your child may have a bad destiny if they, like you, reject God. It's a vicious circle. I believe you want what's best for your child, but i also believe that you are making the ultimate poor decision on their behalf.
NephilimFree 4 years ago
Since you have started to comment bomb me, and you are offering nothing to support your idiotic claims, you are now blocked. Have a nice life.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
A thought-provoking opinion. It causd me to think about my expectations of my kids. I'm athiest too, but I never thought about it in terms of parenting. Good take.
MindUrTube 4 years ago
Cheers
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Jesus loves you. Everybody else thinks you're an arsehole.
Oh. And you're blocked. Retard.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
You are truly a great atheist philosopher of our time! You should write a book on atheist philosophy. Could be a best seller!
FireFoxRocks 4 years ago
LOL. Don't tempt me :P
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Really great vlog- . Overall for the 'owe' and 'deserve'(these are so often confused) sentiment and the responsibilty of creation. My father left when I was a small child and the life that he continues to create is a constant dissapointment and I have often thought, in a metaphysical sense, that what he owed to me, that he neglected, is somehow a constant haunt-the universal law disrupted in a way. If this makes any sense. I agree with you 100% Thank you for your thoughtful videos.
havesomeballs 4 years ago
Cheers. And sorry to hear that.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Fucking awesome.
AntiRelusionist 4 years ago
:-) Thanks
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Thank you. That's exactly how I meant it.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
My point is that his outlook that children "owe" their parents nothing will change with time - someday he will wake up and understand. (Of course, what "obligation" means can be debated, too.) But, of course, the real point of his video is using that faulty premise and comparing it to our relationship with God.
Fatally flawed on both accounts.
god bless
1happypilgrim 4 years ago
That you disagree is patently obvious, but you have yet to support any of your claims with any solid arguments. What, exactly, would a child "owe" its parent? Please elaborate. But you can't, can you?
rozeboosje 4 years ago
First,you are wrong about parenting. But more important, you are wrong about our service to God.
You fail to understand that the idea of "obligation" grows out of morality - And where do you think that comes from?
Obligation to love and serve God? Yes! Because He ordained it! "You SHALL love the Lord with all your heart..."
Since our Creator is the one who knows best how to bring us into a life of true love - methinks it is best to follow Him and not your faulty logic.
god bless
1happypilgrim 4 years ago
I love my children. I do nothing for them out of a sense of obligation or duty. I do it because I love them, and I give it freely. Love is not a duty! You can't choose to love, you either do or don't, and I for one would give my life for my children if it were me or them, because I love them. They love me too, but they owe me NOTHING. Love isn't bartering for goodness sake.
One has to wonder how well you know this God of yours, if you imagine love is service and duty.
Loreleila 4 years ago
Love is much more than a feeling. It is laying down your life whether you feel like it or not. And, quite the contrary, yes, you choose to love. Real love is an act of the will. That is real love - love that involves the heart, the mind, the will...Service and duty are part of that.
god bless
1happypilgrim 4 years ago
No, they are not. If you raise your child well, and you are lucky, they will extend their love and gratitude to you. If they don't, you can't blame anybody but yourself for that. And the same goes for any "creator god".
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Indeed. A parent owes their child a good upbringing, a roof over its head, support, etcetera. Love can only come naturally, from both sides, and count yourself lucky if that happens.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
> He ordained it!
Oh right? The carrot don't work, so let's wield the stick.
"our Creator" is nothing of the sort. What you're talking about is YOUR imaginary friend. Your figment of your imagination. Your sky fairy. And unless you can support its existence with anything other than empty rhetoric, please do not expect me to take it seriously.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
> morality - And where do you think that comes from?
Certainly not from your mythical über-troll
My morality is based on my empathy with others, my understanding (to the best of my ability) of human emotion, my realisation that others are just like me, and an understanding (same) of how my actions might impact on society. Think about it and you'll see how a lot of morality follows quite naturally. No God necessary.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Wow Pino, I'm really interested in hearing your response to xxbutton...
To: xxbutton... if you want to talk about not feeling lonely, send me a pm. Pino made a video about me but if you look at my real channel (nodrahma) you might see that I am not as evil as he made me out to be. Seriously though... if you want to talk, I will listen.
nodrahma3 4 years ago
We're up to number 3 now, are we? Blimey, you're desperate.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
The speaker is simply wrong.
give him a few years and when his sweet little helpless baby grows up and demands the car keys every night, his attitude will quickly change.
god bless
1happypilgrim 4 years ago
The troll has simply not understood what I'm saying.
Give him a brain transplant and maybe one day he'll realise what I was actually trying to say
Glurb bless
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Well put Pino
Brianswers 4 years ago
Cheers
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Interesting perspective. I would argue that nobody 'owes' anyone anything at all. We normally want the very best for our children so we do everything we can for them but I'm not sure it's from a feeling of debt. That perspective seems to have negative implications for having been born in the first place. Like, "I'm so sorry we brought you into the world". Great turnaround, though!
Barklord 4 years ago
Not really, Jim. It's more about taking responsibility. I created my child, so I have to accept responsibility for that. And with that comes obligation.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
I understand, but you don't really owe them anything unless there is a higher power commanding it. People use to euthanize children that couldn't be taken care of. I know it sounds horrifying but that's the naked reality. We decide to take responsibility or we don't. It's a choice plenty of people decide not to make and instead, let society assume the obligation.
Barklord 4 years ago
Yes, but - and I accept that this is my personal opinion - I think it's morally not acceptable.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
We agree, then. How do you feel about it when people feel entitled to a lifestyle for their children and themselves (healthy and capable)without having to provide it? Rely on social programs, etc. Just curious.
Barklord 4 years ago
Good of you to mention it. In fact humans have a society they can fall back on if they themselves are unable to meet their obligations (as I see it). A hypothetical God like the Christian one has no such fall back, and therefore cannot escape his responsibilities. If he existed, that is. It's easier for humans.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
So, you make a distinction between people who are capable of supporting themselves and their families and people who are unable to because of health reasons, etc. If so, I totally agree. I tend to be liberal in that respect.
Barklord 4 years ago
Pino...Hell was made for the devil and his angels. The devil knows there is a God and he trembles.(unlike you) The devil hates God and all God creation. You need to really find out who the real enemy of your soul is. Its not God for he has sent his son Jesus Christ to redeem man from the penelty of there sins. We are guilty and you need to realized this. After death is the judgement. All mankind will keep that appointment.Jesus Christ is your only remedy.
Bonigee 4 years ago
Yawn
rozeboosje 4 years ago
I agree completely + sounds like your a really excellent parent!+I´m favorite`ing this!
bCurious2 4 years ago
Thank you
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Hi, My name is Pino too, I wish i could make videos this good.
PinoX7 4 years ago
Thanks for the compliment (blush)
rozeboosje 4 years ago
I always enjoy your videos... love them. cheers
ticijev 4 years ago
And thank you for subscribing!
rozeboosje 4 years ago
This was so strangely beautiful... 5*
DavidRandallCurtis 4 years ago
I'm strange like that :P
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Nice one.
sarcasmosis 4 years ago
Thank you too!
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Favorited.
robshred66 4 years ago
Cheers!
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Agreed.
ManifestMiasma 4 years ago
Thank you!
rozeboosje 4 years ago
absolutely superb! philosophy and poetry rarely walks hand and hand so well! =D
sheepwshotguns 4 years ago
(blush)
rozeboosje 4 years ago
I've actually given it 5 stars again :p
Knowntje 4 years ago
Thanks again!
rozeboosje 4 years ago
its all about perspective
TogetherForPeace 4 years ago
Really?
rozeboosje 4 years ago
depending on the culture it seems there is a point at which it's expected the child, now an adult, owes the parent.
TogetherForPeace 4 years ago
No. Never. If a parent does their job right, their children owe it to THEIR children to pass it on. They never owe anything to their parents.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
roze--yes well once again its about perspective. you have a certain set of presuppositions you're bringing to the discussion regarding life and parental relationships with their children.
TogetherForPeace 4 years ago
It's pretty obvious where, when a parent creates a child, the responsibility lies. And the obligation comes with the responsibility. It needs a particularly twisted logic to deny THAT.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
41 ratings and still at 5 stars wow
btw 5stars :P
JDRyder15 4 years ago
Thanks :-)
It couldn't last though :P
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Right, and as a loving parent, I don't expect my kids to be perfect, or to stay on the phone with me all through the day (christians/prayer) or to give me credit for every right thing they do, and take the blame themselves for every wrong thing. And I didn't assign an evil little troll to follow them constantly, trying to get them to mess up at every opportunity (satan) Ugh.
8journey8 4 years ago
Yup
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Its not a matter of owing anyone anything.. its a matter for being Graceful about it. That is why the world is gone wrong..
thoughtlessforever 4 years ago
Good point, thoughtless
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Though not completely related, this kind of reminded me of the foolishness of unconditional love lol
Anyway, great video...and great way to tie in to the worship of god. Not sure I've heard this approach before.
mattduran06 4 years ago
I try to do original work but I'm sure someone else has thought of this before
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Bullet-proof.
NearNothing 4 years ago
Cheers. (ricochet)
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Nice angle.
SpookyFan 4 years ago
Thank you
rozeboosje 4 years ago
My father murdered + abandonded by my mom. orphanages sux, foster parents beat me, and sexually abused me. Who do i depend on? I like your nod video but now I don't feel like nodding. I guess peple with familys are better.
xxbuttonpusherxx 4 years ago
Very sorry to hear that :-(
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Thanks, but who do I depend on? Who should feel gratitude in my life? My foster parents? I just don't get what you are trying to say in this video... I'm trying to apply it to my life but I can't. Can you help? Or is there a different philosophy you have for people like me?
xxbuttonpusherxx 4 years ago
No. It's not about gratitude; from parent to child there should be an obligation of care, etc, etc. I'm very sorry to hear that your parents - and society - have failed you. I hope you have managed to find somebody who cares now, but you seem to have had a hard deal. That is definitely not fair, and you didn't deserve that. :-(
rozeboosje 4 years ago
But my video is about those who expect us to be grateful to, and worship their imaginary God who purportedly created us. Well, even if we accepted the existence of such a God - which I won't for a moment - we owe it nothing. And it owes us big time. See also my conversation with Barklord.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
The truth is, I don't think anyone really cares... I mean, they say they do, and try to sympathize, but after that, they don't really seem to care. I guess I am lost in your philosophy on dependency. I assume I can depend on myself as it is the only one I can depend on, but it gets lonely... you know? Very lonely.
xxbuttonpusherxx 4 years ago
Yes. And the only way out is to open up to someone in your vicinity. And that is going to be very hard, as people have always let you down.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
i do open up... all the time... i've been through support groups and therapy all my life. And the truth is... they are good at giving advice and sympathizing and it makes me feel good at the moment but after that... when i am just by myself, regardless of how many friends I have, I still feel lonely. Like empty inside. I am just trying to relate to people who seem to have everything (familys, etc.) And I want to feel happy like them, but I don't have what they have.
xxbuttonpusherxx 4 years ago
Ok. I think this is going to be very hard. Of course I have absolutely no idea what you've gone through or what you're going through now as all I have to go from are these comments. But let me try. (more...)
rozeboosje 4 years ago
I think what may be the problem with support groups and therapy is that in the end the people you're talking to and opening up to do not have any emotional investment in you. You're a case to them, or someone in a similar situation to themselves, and either they try to help you professionally, or their main focus is on helping themselves. (more...)
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Therefore I think the only way you can get over the loneliness is to find someone to start an actual relationship with. But of course that is extremely difficult for you, precisely because you have been let down so much already (more...)
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Starting a relationship is risky at the best of times, and to someone carrying the sort of burden you appear to be carrying it must seem like one of the scariest things you could possibly do. Plus of course, how are you even going to find someone, and who might possibly like you that much? (more...)
rozeboosje 4 years ago
But if you start looking at people around you from that perspective you might notice someone of the right temperament. And all you can do then is work hard at it. There is absolutely no guarantee of success. And even if you manage to start a relationship, so often people are let down in them. And that might be the final straw for you if that were to happen. BUT...
rozeboosje 4 years ago
... if it DOES work out, it's worth all that pain. I've been there. I was single, and lonely, well beyond my mid twenties. I finally found that person, and pushed myself beyond my fear. And I got incredibly lucky. And if you don't try, it'll never happen.
I hope this was somewhat helpful. I hope I haven't made things worse with my comments. I wish you the best of luck.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
I'm glad you got "incredibly lucky", but what about the rest of us who don't... I mean, I could only imagine you are with another non-believer as you don't seem like the type who would be with someone who is religious. (I could be wrong) Who could respect believers... ya know? How do we get around that?
xxbuttonpusherxx 4 years ago
> you don't seem like the type who would be with someone who is religious
In fact my wife is a devout Catholic. That does, of course, occasionally make for interesting conversations, but above all we love each other.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Her and her family are respectful people but how could I respect her if I think she is deluded? Who can respect deluded people? I mean that's the whole point of our fight, right? So if the general is in bed with the enemy, how does he respect himself? I don't mean to be direct and if I am misguided, let me know.
xxbuttonpusherxx 4 years ago
Tell her honestly that you cannot share her beliefs. Those are only part of what she is about, surely. If she can accept that, you can respect that about her.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
I try to talk some sense into her, but she seems very happy and content in her beliefs. She is a very smart attractive girl but I don't know how I could respect her if I constantly see her following a delusion. Ya know? I just don't get those fundies.
xxbuttonpusherxx 4 years ago
Indeed. I would have problems with that too. Even though my wife is from a very religious Catholic background, her family also has a very deep sense of tolerance and acceptance of the different beliefs - or lack thereof - of others. If that were missing I don't think I could have been able to accept it.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Yeah, but we as atheists have a deep intolerance of religions and beliefs. What is your secret in covering that up with her? You know... because if I was with a believer, I would want them to come to reality and get with the program or else I could only see them as delusional. I can't respect delusional people. ya know?
xxbuttonpusherxx 4 years ago
The secret is not to cover it up. She knows I am an atheist, and that I cannot believe in her god. But I can believe in her.
I don't call her delusional. I call her not rational. But we all have some beliefs that are not rational. And as long as those don't include things that are clearly in conflict with observed reality, or that make her look down on me, I have no issue with them.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
She accepts the reality of things like evolution. She accepts that the universe is about 15 billion years old. She doesn't believe in the literal truth of biblical creation myths and the likes. She doesn't believe I'm condemned because I don't believe. She does believe in a few strange things that, given the lack of evidence, I can't believe in. But nothing that stands in the way of how we feel about each other.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
I do not understand you here. Aren't we supposed to be rebooting people's minds... not supporting the belief system. You seem to have built this youtube empire as a means of what? A means of retaliation for feelings of inadequacy bestowed upon you by the church? But behind the scenes, you are supporting it? I just think that sounds very two-faced. Are you really the Pino you appear to be in your videos? I am starting to lose respect for you.
xxbuttonpusherxx 4 years ago 3
Ok, my situation aside. You are kind of losing me here. I happened to notice some comments on another video you made. In it you say, referring to your wife's involvement with her church. "I will be involved in further events taking place this year" Obviously she is devoted enough to be involved in extracurricular activities at the church so god must mean a lot to her. Not only that, but you are helping the enemy by supporting her parish?
xxbuttonpusherxx 4 years ago 3
test
rozeboosje 4 years ago
It won't let me post a link to my latest vid. "a theist is a theist is a theist". But that is a response to your comments here :-)
rozeboosje 4 years ago
I do know one girl, but she is very religious and I know her family is too. She is probably one of the most genuine people I know... but because she is religious... I think that would create difficulties. I just know because I have hung out with her family and they have asked me if I know Jesus. I don't want to be disingenuous with them but I know that if we were together, it would involve religion.
xxbuttonpusherxx 4 years ago
Still though. Don't rule it out altogether. If you are not religious, and from this comment it seems like that is the case, talk to the girl about that. Maybe it'll be OK with her too. She might be one of those people who believe Christ saved ALL of humanity by dying on the cross, and that would include you, whether you believe or not. In that case I see no reason why you and she couldn't find a middle ground (more...)
rozeboosje 4 years ago
For example, my wife and I realised that even though our belief systems were very different, our moral codes were quite compatible. That is very important in how we raise our kid. But we do sometimes disagree on things. But we can see beyond that.
If you feel there is a chance with this girl, please do NOT let her belief system, or yours, get in the way of taking your relationship further.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
PS - beware of those who offer easy answers, false promises, and simple solutions.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Yeah, but I know it will. I want to be with someone I can respect. I am really curious how to love a person while watching them deluding themselves. Morals aside... compatibility still involves complete respect... or is there another way of explaining it?
xxbuttonpusherxx 4 years ago
Nope. You got that spot on. Compatibility does involve complete respect. I'll flesh that out in my response to your comment on the teachings in the bible.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Yeah, but I know the teachings in the bible... I studied it. If she believes that then she isn't believing the right thing. If there were such a man as jeebus, it's very clear in the bible that we are to humble ourselves to him. I couldn't do that nor could i watch someone else do that. I could never get over it. What is your secret?
xxbuttonpusherxx 4 years ago
Well, yes, of course, but I always look at it this way: religion is not what it says in a holy book, it's what the believer makes of that within their head. How they do that is their business, but if, contrary to the literal text of the bible, she can make a belief system for herself that is truly tolerant, then I can respect her, even if I can't respect the bible.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
I have started many relationships... but my heart has been broken. It is not difficult for me at all. The thing is, when you know what you want in a person, from going through so many, you find it harder and harder to find a good decent person.
xxbuttonpusherxx 4 years ago
Yes. That is very true, and that is the risk I am alluding to. And honestly I don't think there is an easy answer to that problem other than keep trying. If you feel like it.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
But I have made friends in the support groups. When we are together I feel happy but... at the end of the day when it is time to be with myself, I don't feel anything. Don't get me wrong, I'm not codependent, I am actually very independent, but I still feel empty. You know?
xxbuttonpusherxx 4 years ago
Yes. I can understand that.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Well said.
mconn2112 4 years ago
Thank you
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Insightful thoughts! I'm diggin' the way your right brain ( philosophy ) is kept busy counter-balancing the left ( logic ;-).
Must be a good anti-depressant there! (*kidding*)≡÷þ
PositiveLogic 4 years ago
:-)
Maybe it is!
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Props from a non-parent. Great work.
The concept of a creator god that demands our devotion and worship or we will be tortured eternally is a grotesque concept indeed. Such a god is unworthy of worship.
The Calvinist concept of god is even more horrifying: a god that creates us, and tortures us eternally not because of any choice we make, but just because he chooses to.
UnBeguiled 4 years ago
Yup. There definitely are gradations of crazy
rozeboosje 4 years ago
"Boot out your religion"
I like it!
TheKidFrom13thStreet 4 years ago
Cheers!
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Great video. Although, my daughter actually owes me some cash right now. How can a person send 1600 text messages in one month?
lirpa69 4 years ago 3
LOL
rozeboosje 4 years ago
I've said the same thing many a time myself, faved.
WizardJim 4 years ago
Thank you!
rozeboosje 4 years ago
HEY!! so after what I wrote before, I looked for it here and found it--I just love this song!-I used to know it --now not sure--it's been a long time-but here it is-makes me almost cry-though I didn't live there-I was in Zuidland
watch?v=_ARe3rC0YRc&feature=related
nicanicabad 4 years ago
:-)
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Excellent argument. I've never seen this comparison used before.
rockingki 4 years ago
Thanks!
rozeboosje 4 years ago
great parallel comparison...A God should at least have the balls to sign (somewhere for all to see) this slop.
inmendham 4 years ago
:-)
rozeboosje 4 years ago
I have two children that are technically adults (just over 18) and a 12 year old. I am a parent every day to all 3. Those are my credentials. Therefore I can safely say that you are absolutely right about parenting. Regarding the comparison to our 'creator'? Absolutely GOD DAMN right!
patflix 4 years ago
Thanks. It's a hard realisation when it first hits you, but then you learn to appreciate those signs of love you do get all the more when you do your job right and they do come.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
But Pino, that's not what it says in the X Commandments (about either G or your parents). I'm having trouble deciding which is right: you or the 10 rules. Hmmm...
:-D
CousinoMacul 4 years ago
Let's put it this way, if you don't agree with me I can't punish you for it. Nor would I even if I could. Oh. Oops. Bang there goes my advantage.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
*bows down* I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy! LOL Another great Vid. I have a 13 yr old daughter, and a 12 yr. old son, and boy are they a handful now that they are preteens. Love them, though! ~Steph
HitchensFanatic 4 years ago
Yup. I have a 4 1/2 year old, and I love her to bits.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
God or no, living this 'gift' that is life is where it's at imo, just as we wish for our children.
Loreleila 4 years ago
Indeed. That's a very good point. Ella doesn't owe *me* anything. But she owes it to herself to make the most of the life I helped create for her.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Interesting synopsis. I'm pondering inserting a "devil's advocate" idea into this, but I refrain. I do agree in many ways with your statement, but I think there's more to this than the basic precepts outlined here... still, I agree with you, though with some reservations.
DieselBodine 4 years ago
I understand. The last thing you'd want as a parent is some obnoxious ingrate for a child. But that doesn't mean the child owes you anything. It just means that you should be grateful if your relationship is a happy one.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Replace the "god" angle with "nature," and ask yourself if we shouldn't feel positive sentiments and perhaps gratitude towards "nature" for our existence. Without life, we are nothing. With life, we are presented with possibilities that a rock will never have. I have gratitude and love for nature.
DieselBodine 4 years ago
Yes, me too. But I don't *owe* it that. I have a great relationship with my parents. I love them. I'm grateful that they brought me up the way they did. But I don't *owe* them that. They don't deserve it. But they earned it. Over and over again.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Owing something to someone denotes an obligation. I think someone who feels obliged to feel a certain way in gratitude, and doing it willingly, without reservation and because it feels good to do so, probably has better character than someone that says, "I don't owe anything to anyone, so I will give nothing in return for what I expect should be given to me." Hey, Pino, did you see that video geerup made about you? Phhht...
DieselBodine 4 years ago
No. Is it worth watching?
rozeboosje 4 years ago
I don't think you'll be amused by it. My response to it was, "Phhht..."
DieselBodine 4 years ago
DB, have we decided on an icon yet for how to deal with nonsense?
:@ <--- ?? pfft
ManifestMiasma 4 years ago
LOL! ManifestMiasma! I think you may be on to something with that little icon! Good thinking. 8-)
DieselBodine 4 years ago
:@ indeed :-)
rozeboosje 4 years ago
It looks like he did a second one too. Did you see that one at all? I thought about watching it, but the apathy is just overwhelming.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Yeah, Pino, I watched it. He has a new totally ridiculous video about some kind of "Atheist's Creed." I think he needs to reboot his mind so badly. I think it may be a hopeless case... the indoctrination is so overwhelmingly complete. To think that everything coming from his mouth is just things he had learned from others...
DieselBodine 4 years ago
Yeah. I guessed as much. Thanks for saving (ha!) me from wasting my time :-)
rozeboosje 4 years ago
I just rephrased that in the video description, I think a little better than I did in my response to you.
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Unh can I hire you to talk to my mother? Name your price.
Pino-I think no one on YT has as much grace as you do. My husband will also love this video. When I grow up, I wanna be just like you. I say that seldom to people, but when I do, I mean it.
nicanicabad 4 years ago
Wow! Thanks nica!
rozeboosje 4 years ago
I love ya man, not least because we are awake at the same time--nooo! just kidding- Are you not an hour before me anyway? It's 20:03 here now.
nicanicabad 4 years ago
Yup. It's 19:10 here now
rozeboosje 4 years ago
We need a European YT Atheist weekend. --or week--that's harder for you than me but it would be great. I vote Den Hague,...mooie stad achter de duinen....
nicanicabad 4 years ago
I couldn't do a week. But "Den Haag". Not a bad idea, I could combine it with a visit to my parents (grin)
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Oh thanks-you should see my English spelling ;-)
I just think that many Americans would come- for the 'romance' of it-we should all rent a small Greek isle for a month.
nicanicabad 4 years ago
Even better
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Naturally just the shitbees. We wouldn't wan't to spoil the ambiance; burn down a forrest, just eat hamburgers, be drunk all the time, or anything similarly 'fun'.
nicanicabad 4 years ago
Parenting is a drain, Grand parenting is our reward for doing it. God is a lousy parent someone should CPS on him, them, it.
Ender1zero1 4 years ago
LOL
rozeboosje 4 years ago
wow great points pino, powerfull stuff. favorited. theists completely fail to understand this. they all rant on and on about free will and it's men's choice to sin. but then why did god not give us to choice to exist in the first place? isnt that a violation of free will?
Knowntje 4 years ago
Good point indeed
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Really good point
phaexus 4 years ago
Thanks!
rozeboosje 4 years ago
This sounds like a very good parenting philosophy. I think many parents end up thinking that their children owe them everything.
I like to compare the Christian God to a 13-year old capricious little girl. "What? You don't want to be my friend? WELL FUCK YOU! BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY, BITCHES!" =)
TheGrammarian 4 years ago
Exactly
rozeboosje 4 years ago
..sounds remarkably like fakecase and TJ too!
nicanicabad 4 years ago
I'm not subbed to them.
TheGrammarian 4 years ago