Really really reallyyyyyyyyyy good stuff. This reminds me of poetry (the movie), zazen, and a whole lot of other stuff that are just wonderful. :) ...and i'm an Atheist, which means nothing in relation to what they're trying to say, so please stop rating it without actually viewing it.
celal. before telling everyone else what to think, you might actually watch the video and hear what they're saying. if you did that, I'm sorry, you missed the point and I'm not sure why you'd listen if you aren't prepared to learn. and its 'epoch' not 'epic'
Man is a worshipping being. Kelly starts out the lecture by noticing that today there are many religious people but basically he says they don't really take their religion seriously because it doesn't affect their day to day decisions. He's right about this. American Evangelicalism worships "personal peace and prosperity" just like the rest of the culture instead of being true worshippers of Christ. Christ demands all. But folk refuse to give all, hence the nihilism (continued)
@celal777 (continued) but what these guys are proposing as a solution is essentially turning their students into a bunch of idolaters by encouraging them to take on Homeric and other idols. To escape Nihilism, what needs to happen is to give your life to Jesus -- He is real , these idols are not. Besides Western society has no better "epic" or even anything that comes close outside the Bible.
@KC101X sec·u·lar adj 1. Worldly rather than spiritual. 2. Not specifically relating to religion or to a religious body: secular music. 3. Relating to or advocating secularism. 4. Not bound by monastic restrictions, especially not belonging to a religious order. Used of the clergy. 5. Occurring or observed once in an age or century. 6. Lasting from century to century. n. 1. A member of the secular clergy. 2. A layperson.
I am not sure what Hubert and Sean are attempting to accomplish other than to reintroduce mythology and storytelling as mechanisms to evoke something they identify as important: "the sacred sacred".
Certainly, there are numerous constructs and such within our natural lives and societies which are quite of value and which we do not need the imagination of "the sacred" to evoke a warranted sense of respect and of honouring such things. I may be off on this, yet "the sacred" is wonderful in poetry.
So rape is sacred because no one laughs at it? Nice to see 2 professors publishing a thesis they would fail a first year student for trying to hand in.
Sacred 'ness is directly proportional to ignorance, superstition, and fear. There is a direct correlation between a culture's secular 'ness, its lower prison populations, its higher education levels, and higher standard of living.
I think you are mounting a straw man argument. You assume you understand what Kelly and Dreyfus mean by the "sacred," but you are using the term quite differently than they are using it. If you are going to criticize, then do so on their grounds.
There is no such thing as sacred. The concept itself is a human construction which is entirely subjective. These windbags don't understand shit they're just talking heads with a more philosophical bent.
@VoidOnTuesday so you are arguing that in order for something to be sacred it must be objective and universal? of course, what is sacred for Americans? Technology, development, PROGRESS.
Your position represents the exact nihilism Kelly and Dreyfus are attempting to both acknowledge and overcome in their work. To say that there is nothing sacred is to say, in effect, that nothing is any more important than anything else--and that's not a livable or viable philosophical stance. You can espouse such a viewpoint, but it cannot be meaningfully lived out in any authentic way.
@bdeaner i don't really think you can conflate not holding anything as sacred and not believing that things don't have differing values. The word sacred implies something that would reign over all alternatives, whereas I believe a wide variety of actions are acceptable under different circumstances. Nothing is the be all and end all everything is situational. Human lives are "sacred" up until the point they try to take my life. You see? It's a completely situational subjective valuation.
That may be how you define "sacred," but that's not how Bert and Sean are using the term. For example, they''re very clear that the sacred is socially constructed and changes in each cultural epoche. And, it is quite fascinating really that you are criticizing them for not understanding that values are situational and cannot be founded on abstract principle Yet that's exactly their point! Thus the emphasis on skill and receptivity to context Listen again.
anyone got the name of the chinese philosopher mentioned at 55:40?
ham33d 4 months ago
@ham33d it's Zhuang Zi ;)
quarkonium 2 months ago
Really really reallyyyyyyyyyy good stuff. This reminds me of poetry (the movie), zazen, and a whole lot of other stuff that are just wonderful. :) ...and i'm an Atheist, which means nothing in relation to what they're trying to say, so please stop rating it without actually viewing it.
dexter21380 7 months ago
Comment removed
nsl7857 9 months ago
celal. before telling everyone else what to think, you might actually watch the video and hear what they're saying. if you did that, I'm sorry, you missed the point and I'm not sure why you'd listen if you aren't prepared to learn. and its 'epoch' not 'epic'
nsl7857 9 months ago
Man is a worshipping being. Kelly starts out the lecture by noticing that today there are many religious people but basically he says they don't really take their religion seriously because it doesn't affect their day to day decisions. He's right about this. American Evangelicalism worships "personal peace and prosperity" just like the rest of the culture instead of being true worshippers of Christ. Christ demands all. But folk refuse to give all, hence the nihilism (continued)
celal777 9 months ago
@celal777 (continued) but what these guys are proposing as a solution is essentially turning their students into a bunch of idolaters by encouraging them to take on Homeric and other idols. To escape Nihilism, what needs to happen is to give your life to Jesus -- He is real , these idols are not. Besides Western society has no better "epic" or even anything that comes close outside the Bible.
celal777 9 months ago
SamNoble89 9 months ago
@Charles33333
Lol what? Yeah, atheists are usually the ones that shy away from discussion and debate. Right....
Aaberg123 9 months ago
@KC101X
... try again. Greeks did more than Jesus.
Aaberg123 9 months ago
I am not sure what Hubert and Sean are attempting to accomplish other than to reintroduce mythology and storytelling as mechanisms to evoke something they identify as important: "the sacred sacred".
Certainly, there are numerous constructs and such within our natural lives and societies which are quite of value and which we do not need the imagination of "the sacred" to evoke a warranted sense of respect and of honouring such things. I may be off on this, yet "the sacred" is wonderful in poetry.
thedeeliciousplum 9 months ago
So rape is sacred because no one laughs at it? Nice to see 2 professors publishing a thesis they would fail a first year student for trying to hand in.
Sacred 'ness is directly proportional to ignorance, superstition, and fear. There is a direct correlation between a culture's secular 'ness, its lower prison populations, its higher education levels, and higher standard of living.
Mahoivlich 9 months ago
@Mahoivlich Look, a progress narrative. In this instance, sacred is science, objectivity, notions of progress.
earthfell 9 months ago
@Mahoivlich
I think you are mounting a straw man argument. You assume you understand what Kelly and Dreyfus mean by the "sacred," but you are using the term quite differently than they are using it. If you are going to criticize, then do so on their grounds.
bdeaner 9 months ago
@Mahoivlich
Rape is a violation of something sacred. You don't see that?
bdeaner 9 months ago
There is no such thing as sacred. The concept itself is a human construction which is entirely subjective. These windbags don't understand shit they're just talking heads with a more philosophical bent.
VoidOnTuesday 9 months ago
@VoidOnTuesday so you are arguing that in order for something to be sacred it must be objective and universal? of course, what is sacred for Americans? Technology, development, PROGRESS.
earthfell 9 months ago
@VoidOnTuesday
Your position represents the exact nihilism Kelly and Dreyfus are attempting to both acknowledge and overcome in their work. To say that there is nothing sacred is to say, in effect, that nothing is any more important than anything else--and that's not a livable or viable philosophical stance. You can espouse such a viewpoint, but it cannot be meaningfully lived out in any authentic way.
bdeaner 9 months ago
@bdeaner i don't really think you can conflate not holding anything as sacred and not believing that things don't have differing values. The word sacred implies something that would reign over all alternatives, whereas I believe a wide variety of actions are acceptable under different circumstances. Nothing is the be all and end all everything is situational. Human lives are "sacred" up until the point they try to take my life. You see? It's a completely situational subjective valuation.
VoidOnTuesday 9 months ago
@VoidOnTuesday
That may be how you define "sacred," but that's not how Bert and Sean are using the term. For example, they''re very clear that the sacred is socially constructed and changes in each cultural epoche. And, it is quite fascinating really that you are criticizing them for not understanding that values are situational and cannot be founded on abstract principle Yet that's exactly their point! Thus the emphasis on skill and receptivity to context Listen again.
bdeaner 9 months ago