So would you feel any problem with a Jew in the year 2011 stoning to death your loved ones because they saw them working on Saturday? Don't forget Jews do not acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah; so if they really were obedient to the Torah, they would be forced to kill your loved ones. If a Jew (who was trying to be obedient to the fictitious god of the Torah) murdered your loved ones for working on the Sabbath, would you be happy with that?
Are you ashamed of the words of your god? Here's some of them:
Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them permanent slaves for life. [Lev 25:44-46]
Jesus was PROUD to declare he was the god who said that.
I'll answer again; Man was already keeping slaves. God did not institute it, but regulated/allowed Israel's implementation of it ...temporarily. The law was a temporary covenant for the nation of Israel in a world that was a mess. And yet, within His regulating, God gives prophetic pictures of the One who would become a Servant to His Master forever.
The bondservant in particular is an amazing foreshadowing of Yeshua Messiah - His dying for your sins & mine.
when people believe in bible's god,even killing children becomes moral: Moses was angry with the officers of the army who returned from battle. "Have you allowed all the women to live? They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and turned the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. [Num 31:14-18]
@exodus21v20 And when people don't believe in the Bible's God YHVH, they follow beliefs that include everything from atheistic communism, and its mass slaughter "for the good of The People," to the Canaanite practice of child sacrifice to owl gods (among other things) like Moloch. When people sin, the judgment for it is locked onto their descendants as well as themselves, unless they go through the methods YHVH proscribes for forgiveness...which is Yeshua the Messiah, in these latter times.
Here the ancient Hebrews justify their enslaving of other peoples by penning this verse in the name of their fictitious god:
•Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them permanent slaves for life. [Leviticus 25:44-46]
1), you reference a passage to Israel as part of the law covenant made with them, which was temporal, always with the intention of being replaced by a "better covenant" (Jeremiah) - which is grace through Messiah Yeshua.
2) God allowed and regulated some hard things, but did not institute. God is always dealing with a man-made problem from the fall. That His full judgment did not come to pass earlier is mercy to those who have come later.
So just who instituted the death sentence for picking up sticks on the Sabbath? God or man? The bible says god instituted this law and the death sentence for violating it. If you can't see it's wrong to ever allow people to murder each other for doing "work" on the Sabbath, then you are blind and cold hearted as any Pharisee there ever was. Yahweh was so stupid he commanded people to kill their brothers for "working" but he didn't really define exactly what 'work' was.
@exodus21v20 "If you can't see it's wrong to ever..."
If something is always wrong, does that mean it's wrong regardless of whether or not we all agree it's wrong? Meaning, is there anything at all that is "objectively" wrong (or right)? I just want to know what the standard is you are appealing to.
I'll answer the more specific thoughts of yours on God's instituting the law once I know your thoughts on the source of morality -- fair?
There is no objective morality I can appeal to. By the same token the bible itself has no objective morality it can appeal to since yahweh's attempt at teaching morals went something like this. Do not punish a child for it's parents sins. And then he commanded his followers to put to death infants because of the sins of their parents. Even Yahweh cannot invent an objective morality. BUT I can appeal to common sense and say it makes no sense to kill people for picking up a stick.
@exodus21v20 An appeal to "common sense" -- if not objective -- is meaningless for your purpose. Because if not objective, then it is subject to change -- by some means, darwinian or otherwise.
That there are certain things (life, death, judgment) within God's authority only does nothing to rob objective morality of it's objectivity. God never "decided" what is righteous - it is the natural expression of His being.
@exodus21v20 Murder - by definition - is unrighteous killing. Your question is akin to asking if God can make a square circle. Logically fallacious.
All sin -- regardless of size -- ultimately is punished with a death sentence. Either in Messiah's death for those who have repented and put their trust in God's provision (who will therefore live eternally), or by one's own death for the one who rejects God's provision.
So would you be happy to live in a society where Jews murder other Jews for picking up sticks on Saturday? Can't you see how primitive and barbaric that is? Can't you see how imperfect it is for a god to command people to kill each other for working on the Sabbath without even giving a clear definition of what exactly "work" actually is?
@exodus21v20 What I think is that life and death is God's jurisdiction alone. You continue to try to appeal to a moral indignation that you cannot even support or explain. Your very indignation, however, is EVIDENCE of their being an objective morality. You have within you a very real sense of right and wrong (even if not completely in agreement with mine - not relevant for this pnt), and yet the _only_ way you can arrive at this moral standard is if there be a Moral Standard Giver.
@exodus21v20 It's so curious that you zero in on the same OT passages over and over again -- refusing to allow what Yeshua (Jesus) brought forth in the new covenant to inform you at all.
God's desire is to show mercy. He wants man to die to self so he can live eternally in the love of Messiah. He loves those who hate him (yes, even you, exodus!). He's given everything for you....paid the ultimate price for all the evil that you (and I ) have done.
So would you feel any problem with a Jew in the year 2011 stoning to death your loved ones because they saw them working on Saturday? Don't forget Jews do not acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah; so if they really were obedient to the Torah, they would be forced to kill your loved ones. If a Jew (who was trying to be obedient to the fictitious god of the Torah) murdered your loved ones for working on the Sabbath, would you be happy with that?
exodus21v20 10 months ago
@exodus21v20 One more post like the one I removed, and I will have to block you.
mtcanz 10 months ago
@mtcanz
Are you ashamed of the words of your god? Here's some of them:
Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them permanent slaves for life. [Lev 25:44-46]
Jesus was PROUD to declare he was the god who said that.
exodus21v20 10 months ago
@exodus21v20
I'll answer again; Man was already keeping slaves. God did not institute it, but regulated/allowed Israel's implementation of it ...temporarily. The law was a temporary covenant for the nation of Israel in a world that was a mess. And yet, within His regulating, God gives prophetic pictures of the One who would become a Servant to His Master forever.
The bondservant in particular is an amazing foreshadowing of Yeshua Messiah - His dying for your sins & mine.
mtcanz 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
when people believe in bible's god,even killing children becomes moral: Moses was angry with the officers of the army who returned from battle. "Have you allowed all the women to live? They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and turned the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. [Num 31:14-18]
exodus21v20 3 years ago
Comment removed
VampireYoshi 1 year ago
@exodus21v20 And when people don't believe in the Bible's God YHVH, they follow beliefs that include everything from atheistic communism, and its mass slaughter "for the good of The People," to the Canaanite practice of child sacrifice to owl gods (among other things) like Moloch. When people sin, the judgment for it is locked onto their descendants as well as themselves, unless they go through the methods YHVH proscribes for forgiveness...which is Yeshua the Messiah, in these latter times.
WildOliveLeaf 1 year ago
Here the ancient Hebrews justify their enslaving of other peoples by penning this verse in the name of their fictitious god:
•Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them permanent slaves for life. [Leviticus 25:44-46]
exodus21v20 11 months ago
@exodus21v20 two things:
1), you reference a passage to Israel as part of the law covenant made with them, which was temporal, always with the intention of being replaced by a "better covenant" (Jeremiah) - which is grace through Messiah Yeshua.
2) God allowed and regulated some hard things, but did not institute. God is always dealing with a man-made problem from the fall. That His full judgment did not come to pass earlier is mercy to those who have come later.
Shalom
mtcanz 10 months ago
@mtcanz
So just who instituted the death sentence for picking up sticks on the Sabbath? God or man? The bible says god instituted this law and the death sentence for violating it. If you can't see it's wrong to ever allow people to murder each other for doing "work" on the Sabbath, then you are blind and cold hearted as any Pharisee there ever was. Yahweh was so stupid he commanded people to kill their brothers for "working" but he didn't really define exactly what 'work' was.
exodus21v20 10 months ago
@exodus21v20 "If you can't see it's wrong to ever..."
If something is always wrong, does that mean it's wrong regardless of whether or not we all agree it's wrong? Meaning, is there anything at all that is "objectively" wrong (or right)? I just want to know what the standard is you are appealing to.
I'll answer the more specific thoughts of yours on God's instituting the law once I know your thoughts on the source of morality -- fair?
mtcanz 10 months ago
@mtcanz
There is no objective morality I can appeal to. By the same token the bible itself has no objective morality it can appeal to since yahweh's attempt at teaching morals went something like this. Do not punish a child for it's parents sins. And then he commanded his followers to put to death infants because of the sins of their parents. Even Yahweh cannot invent an objective morality. BUT I can appeal to common sense and say it makes no sense to kill people for picking up a stick.
exodus21v20 10 months ago
@exodus21v20 An appeal to "common sense" -- if not objective -- is meaningless for your purpose. Because if not objective, then it is subject to change -- by some means, darwinian or otherwise.
That there are certain things (life, death, judgment) within God's authority only does nothing to rob objective morality of it's objectivity. God never "decided" what is righteous - it is the natural expression of His being.
Shalom
mtcanz 10 months ago
@mtcanz
So would it be righteous to murder someone for picking up a stick on Saturday the day before Jesus was born?
Would it be righteous to murder someone for picking up a stick on saturday the data after Jesus died?
exodus21v20 10 months ago
@exodus21v20 Murder - by definition - is unrighteous killing. Your question is akin to asking if God can make a square circle. Logically fallacious.
All sin -- regardless of size -- ultimately is punished with a death sentence. Either in Messiah's death for those who have repented and put their trust in God's provision (who will therefore live eternally), or by one's own death for the one who rejects God's provision.
Try reading a little less myopically.
mtcanz 10 months ago
@mtcanz
So would you be happy to live in a society where Jews murder other Jews for picking up sticks on Saturday? Can't you see how primitive and barbaric that is? Can't you see how imperfect it is for a god to command people to kill each other for working on the Sabbath without even giving a clear definition of what exactly "work" actually is?
exodus21v20 10 months ago
@exodus21v20 What I think is that life and death is God's jurisdiction alone. You continue to try to appeal to a moral indignation that you cannot even support or explain. Your very indignation, however, is EVIDENCE of their being an objective morality. You have within you a very real sense of right and wrong (even if not completely in agreement with mine - not relevant for this pnt), and yet the _only_ way you can arrive at this moral standard is if there be a Moral Standard Giver.
mtcanz 10 months ago
@exodus21v20 It's so curious that you zero in on the same OT passages over and over again -- refusing to allow what Yeshua (Jesus) brought forth in the new covenant to inform you at all.
God's desire is to show mercy. He wants man to die to self so he can live eternally in the love of Messiah. He loves those who hate him (yes, even you, exodus!). He's given everything for you....paid the ultimate price for all the evil that you (and I ) have done.
Shalom
mtcanz 10 months ago
@exodus21v20 lol I enjoy reading exodus. I shall give my thoughts of mtcanz as I continue to read.
MajorChaos69 4 months ago