This is a forum, so obviously there are going to be a variety of opinions. Now without talking shit about the opposition (I happen to agree with Matt and his opinion) (BTW), why someone would post something like this is beyond me... I guess you are entitiled to your thoughts too. But is there no validity to what Matt says or thinks? He's composed, and educated enough to get on here and speak the truth.
You have weak language comprehension. He's not insulting Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, he's insulting traditional martial arts that work off of forms/kata instead of realness. HE TRAINS IN BJJ you dunce. Research facts before you make videos to insult. It just makes you look like a moron for not comprehending what he means.
wow iv been personally trained by Matt and he is a fantastic coach, this video clearly isn't the entire interview and the maker of this video is trying to twist what Matt's real message is
In all my years in the military and in the security industry I have NEVER seen a padded floor or a ring or cage when an assault rifle,handgun, or knife was introduced into the equation. The problem with some MMA fighters is NOT that they are not proficient, it is with their attempt to further elevate themselves by discrediting anyone else that dos not do what they do. The intelligent fighter will realize the MMA means Mixed Martial Art.... implying a mix of already existing traditional arts.
@SpartanCombativesGrp Without traditional samurai jujutsu there would not be Judo... Without Judo there would be no BJJ... without BJJ there would be no UFC1....... without UFC1 there would most likely be no MMA.... So I am pretty sure the Traditional 15th century Samurai of Feudal Japan are the ancient Grandmasters of MMA...... and they did it all without smart ass kids in tap out t-shirts, and bad attitudes...how odd. Same story with boxing to Filipino/Indonesian/Thai arts.
@SpartanCombativesGrp i agree with what you are saying iv taken traditional martial arts since i was eight im now 15 and i do bjj and kickboxing but like i said in my comment this isnt the whole interview thats exactly the message the creator of this video wanted you to get but if you actually talk to matt its really not what his point was that traditional martial art were bad, just outdated
@Ljenkins9000 BJJ is jujutsu, from Asia. MMA is mostly Thai kickboxing, an Asian martial art and BJJ. Some are still confusing the culural trappings with the principles behind the techniques.
You are the new Michael Moore.. you took a bunch of footage from a decent MMA video set and twisted it, took it out of context and made Thornton look like a nazi. Congratulations.
You are the new Michael Moore.. you took a bunch of footage from a decent MMA vdieo set and twisted it, took it out of context and made Thornton look like a nazi. Congratulations.
@nexusutube You left out bayonets, hands and feet. My point really is that this guy in the video confuses some of the trappings of some Asian MA with the techniques and principles that make the techniques work.
If Asian martial arts don't work, why does every military and police force in the world use them? How were the Gracies able to defeat so many boxers and wrestlers(believe it or not, jujutsu came from Asia) If it's so cultish, how do you explain the Christian, Muslim, and non-religious karate organizations around the world?
@pedinkus Militaries dont use them. They use guns, tanks and artillery. The Gracies were so successful because they abandoned the cultish devotion to a masters teaching and constantly tested and refined their jujitsu. They didnt take anything on faith.
"If Asian martial arts don't work, why does every military and police force in the world use them?"
This isn't true. The US military, for one, has been doing BJJ based MMA since 2001. Police are also moving towards more realistic training. But the primary purpose of hand to hand training in modern militaries is not effectiveness, it's the confidence, competition, fitness etc. It is extremely unlikely that anyone in a war today would ever have to use hand to hand combat skills.
Matt Thornton's pissed off because the Asian's didn't teach him the real system, just watered down versions that he couldn't use in the street. Asian's been teaching the American gov't real life/death situation combative MA before there was the first White master perhaps Master Guy Savelli. Matt Thornton's just taking his MA and applying it to America's thought about fighting. Don't get brain washed by this guy, anyone who practices MA when you reach a certain level you do things that works 4 u.
Matt Thoronton's ideas are not bad. They are worth investigating. I rate him. He had studied traditional arts too, If I recall but changed his methodology.
hes not saying these TMA's are bad, hes saying the way theyre taught is 90% of the time wrong. the dude has a bjj black belt under the machados. go train your sil um fag tao and we shall train to fight
Negative. He's claiming that is a BIG warning sign and that cults commonly use that tactic to fool their sheep. Like in most Christian neo-con death cults.
the long pauses during/after the 'insults' (which, in my opinion, were laughable) - you think saying "asian martial arts" is racist? can we not even specify the continent from which a sport originates? would calling something an 'American fighting style' be equally racist?
I have no vested interest in this feud, hearing only of this thornton guy five minutes ago but he has clearly upset a lot of people who seem to have a lot of baseless attacks against him.
TheRealBullDen--you really have NO idea what you are talking about--I guess (im guessing now) that you are one of those ego-maniacs that thinks he has the answer--yep---
listen more--and learn--stay as you are---and fail
To the person who put up this video. You're a complete idiot. Let me guess. You're a krotty instructor, or a wing chun instructor, or aikido instructor? Matt Thornton is an awesome coach, and is skilled in JKD, BJJ, and others. You're an idiotic loser.
To the person who put up this video. You're a complete idiot. Let me guess. You're a krotty instructor, or a wing chun instructor, or aikido instructor? Matt Thornton is an awesome coach, and is skilled in JKD, BJJ, and others. You're an idiotic loser.
To the person who put up this video. You're a complete idiot. Let me guess. You're a krotty instructor, or a wing chun instructor, or aikido instructor? Matt Thornton is an awesome coach, and is skilled in JKD, BJJ, and others. You're an idiotic loser.
I think Matt has several excellent points about Mcdojo style martial arts instruction.
I believe his intentions are to update training methods and make the martial arts as a whole more sport oriented based martial arts supported by physics, and science. Rather than practically function less meditative like training that contradicts the fundamentals of all fighting styles.
He is not saying don't train safe or not to have fun or learn self defense.
TheRealBull...I'd have to say that you have done a pretty poor job at defaming Mr Thornton. I mean the indications that he may be drunk or intoxicated. Not relevant to the real point. While that said, I agree that his is no less a cult then many other martial arts are. Not as "don't question what Matt says" but rather "if you don't do SBG, you're lame and don't know anything". And I do not agree that he was beign racist when refering to Asian martial arts.
As for competition, Matt was very dominant as a heavyweight in competition, but that was about ten years ago. His students continue to win often in both grappling and MMA, amateur and pro. Former students, associates, and SBGi alumni include
Forrest Griffin
Kenny Florian
Robert Follis
Dan Henderson
Randy Couture
Rory Singer
Nate Quarry
Travis Davison
and dozens of others. Do you think those guys are tough? Do you picture any of them calling their coach fucking Sifu, Guru, Master, or Sensei?
How many comps has Greg Jackson won? Or how about Cus D'amato?
It seems sort of silly to judge someone by their "street fighting" record. How do you get those, anyway? Go around trying to start fights with people on the street? "Oh, my street fighting record is excellent, especially my last fight, when I bashed that stranger's head against the sidewalk, and slapped his loud mouth girlfriend. That got me to 33-4-2. "
masutatsu oyama f... up a bull several times by bare HANDS, masahiko kimura was a monster but he was like 5ft 6inch, and he would challenge anyone to a street fight and WIN, same as HELIO AND CARLSON, yeah martial arts are BS...
hahahaha he says have a ritual to keep people accoupied like what Christmas I bet this ignorant and hypocrite celebrates Christmas man this guy is so much bullshit I like this video 5 stars hahahaha
I do oriental marcial arts, and I know mi master (from chile) mi master masters (fron Argentina) and the "holy-cow-god-source-off-all-creation",comunly known as sensey. There is "false humble" and each shihan teaches what he learned and interpretated, what Matt said? pure "bullshit"
I would disagree that BJJ isn't necessary, because positional at least, BJJ and Catch are indistinguishable when done no-gi. A fighter with neither BJJ or Catch? That's not impossible, but even with Sambo or Judo, those guys learn BJJ or Catch on top of their other art. No one would insinuate that Fedor doesn't know Catch or BJJ, and relies %100 on Sambo. There is obviously some bleed-over.
Can one grapple without BJJ or Catch? Without a doubt. But learning the two makes a better grappler.
(continued from previous) Unless that person actually makes a point of saying that they are or want to be a fighter, then I think they deserve less derision. (If they do, then they should be able to put up or shut up however)
2. BJJ isn't neccessary. Grappling is. There's way too much BJJ elitism going on. Just because you took BJJ for a few months or even a few years doesn't mean you are invulnerable to great, hard-working practitioners of Judo, Sambo, Catch, Folk/Freestyle, etc.
"I'm generally very supportive of aliveness and the general Bullshido push for more reality and less mysticism. I think that there are 2 general flaws in the way most of their members seem to approach things though."
Bullshido members are not concerned with people who have any other aims in martial arts other than learning how to fight/defend yourself though. They stop bashing someone once they finally admit they just like LARPing and playing around in pajamas rather than learning to fight.
I'm generally very supportive of aliveness and the general Bullshido push for more reality and less mysticism. I think that there are 2 general flaws in the way most of their members seem to approach things though.
1. Not everyone taking a martial art is actually interested in learning how to fight in a ring or in the street. Most people in America take MA for a fun fitness activity and for sense of community. Some enjoy competing in that MA as a sport. A very few actually want to fight.
@Carrera26 The thing with martial arts is that, without the fighting part, they are no longer martial. I mean, why not join a dancing class if you don't want to fight? I've been dancing on and off since I was a kid and it's a ton of fun, it has a pretty social atmosphere, there's not a hint of violence, and there is more activity than in some "martial art" classes.
Also, it's not like you're forced to compete. Even the vast majority of bullshido members are recreational martial artists.
@Carrera26 Granted, but the trouble is most TMA schools aren't honest with their students. And tell them that they are learning how to defend themselves in a street fight. These students than go out with a sense of false confidence, thinking they know hot to fight on the street, and putting themselves at risk. All so some "master" can keep making money. Yes, I'm generalizing, as this is the case with 99.9% of TMA schools I've seen or trained at.
This seems pretty straight up to me. I can't vouch for his actual skills or anything like that but he's right on the money. Most martial arts are a joke and have been proven so over and over again. Anyone who hasn't stepped in an MMA type ring to apply their skills without many rules(other than for safety)is lying to themselves and to others. I know Ego is a hard thing to overcome but the proof is out there. His religion analogy is perfect. Watch the gracie challenge vids.
Oh, and I'm laughing out loud at KC's not being sure of Matt's JKD. The guy was running a certified JKD school when you were in diapers. I would invite anyone to do a Google search on the subject, and see for yourself whether or not you think Matt, a BJJ Black belt who's been involved with JKD Concepts for 20 years and knows Insanto (also a BJJ black belt btw) and Burton Richardson on a first name basis, is qualified in fact to criticize what he sees as flaws in the teaching of practical combat.
I train at Matt's gym in Portland. He's an EXCELLENT coach and a great guy. He's not out to tear people down, and he's definitely not in it to make money. From what I can tell, he's honestly concerned about the quality of training found at most TMA schools. He just doesn't like seeing people get taken by all these charlatan woo-fighters, and neither do I (because I've been there.)
Dude, you're talking about hubud when you're talking about "dead training". What good is pretending that you're going to block punches with a flick of your wrist going to do to help that guy's game?
Pretending doesn't help you get better, but low resistance can introduce you to a technique and help you learn it. What technique is hubud teaching me, anyway? Looking Like an Idiot" technique? "This Only Works When You Help Me Do It" technique?
And this street thing. Be serious. Any body who trains boxing, wrestling, MT, Judo, or BJJ is capable of defending themselves bare knuckle on concrete. But someone who trains all 5 is much MORE capable of defending themselves.
And if they practiced those techniques against resisting opponents, and cast aside their useless and dead training techniques?
Boy howdy. Sorry, bub, but that guy will kick ass up and down the street. Add cardio, and the functional strength that comes with grappling
Everything that you write is absurd. I would consider any martial artist who doesn't have ground game to be an incomplete fighter. I want to be able to be effective as a fighter, so I have learned BJJ.
Your entire thesis seems to be that BJJ isn't necessary, which is silly. Of course it is. If we fought, and I transitioned to mount, which I would, what are you going to do about it? From that position, do you have any training at all?
The big thing is whether its on the street or in a MMA ring. There are going to be people who have strengths and weaknesses. This applies to training, learning & fighting. Some people will do very well training with the alive philosophy. Others will need more dead drilling. My big problem is many people are confusing what may have worked for Matt with what will work for everyone.
And I love the way he trashes dead drills unless he does them. Then they are conditioning drills. Look through his vid's on you tube. He started trashing a dead drill or two person form. Then corrects himself calling it a conditioning drill.
I'm not sure I really have a problem with Thornton. It's the way people claiming to be his students trash proven training. He put out a series of DVD's called functional JKD when I'm not sure it functional and I'm sure it's not JKD. My only hope is to educate people looking for JKD to find it.
From what I've been able to find either he never was a JKD instructor or he lost it.
Most of what you have said about JKD IMHO is right in a very basic sense.
It not so much as whatever works. It's about learning all ranges of combat. Getting competent in them learning what works for you & expanding on it. It then becomes about blending them & making them work. The main thing you get from a good background in JKD is how to examine & train various arts. How to get the best from an art and move on. You learn to take what is useful & ditch the rest.
So yes some good guys. Also Frank Shamrock I'd say is still a pretty good fighter. He lost to Chun Le from a broken arm (he kept fighting with it till the end of the round.) And lost to a guy who may have been high and unable to feel pain.
JKD is a philosophy more than a specific, defined art. I've heard it summed up as quickly as "whatever works."
I know there's a lot of guys out there, that say "I teach the martial art of Jeet Kune Do." But to hear Bruce talk about it in his books and in interviews it's more like "The Martial Philosophy of Jeet Kune Do" making it more akin to other martial philosophies like "Sun Tzu's art of war."
I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to zing him on, KC.
He was probably told certain training was bad or worthless. And it probably was for the purpose of that example or type of fight or for that venue. And he vary childishly assumed it was true for every person or situation. Or he saw a real good BJJ guy and just got sucked in. You again used to see this back in the 80's. Larry is the best, Paul is the best, Dan is the best JKD guy. Yet the JKD legends had the utmost respect for each other and their methods.
If you are interested in a good solid MMA game Matt might not be the best choice but I'd bet he's not the worst. But as far anything other than MMA he should be ignored. Don't drink the coolaid. He has at best an incomplete understanding of JKD and it has warped his view of other arts and his students. This happened in the 80's the real JKD instructors made passing comments on High Kicks for self defense. So soon everyone was saying JKD says high kicks are bad.
Now he doesn't claim to have an instructorship in JKD or Kali. He just claims to have been exposed to it. Either he had a apprentice (very basic you teach what you know as little as one technique) and had it revoked or never had it. I could very easily make a art called Functional Taekwan do. It would look like boxing, a little ground game, mostly Thai boxing with some savate thrown in. It might even be very good. But anyone who know TKD would know its not TKD
Lets look at the facts. He calls his organisation "Straight Blast Gym". The straight blast is a Wing Chun tech made popular by Bruce Lee through JKD. He doesn't teach JKD or the straight blast. He teaches the sport of MMA. He sold tapes called "functional JKD". He used to teach Kali and JKD (he claims). His bio claims no instructor rank in kali or JKD. He trained jkd 1988-90. Taught jkd from like 1990-92 (this is off his bio page at SBG Portland)
The problem with Matt is he went into these arts with the idea they couldn't work (so they didn't) or he had a bad jr instructor (so he wasn't taught right or completely) or he wasted years unable to grasp advanced techniques or make complicated arts work. And now bashes what he was unable to grasp.
Cung Le is the best example from MMA. No one knows how good his ground game is cause damn good ground guys can't get past his strikes. Look at the 2 gracies who fought Shamrock. They are probably 2 fine BJJ guys and one got dropped 30 seconds into the fight. The other got a knee to the back of the head while totally dominating shamrock on the ground.
Damn good guys? A washed up frank shamrock who made the mistake of deciding to stand up with a standup fighter? Cung le is retired, he quit fighting, he wants to make movies. He knows if he were to lose no one would give a shit about seeing him so he gave up his belt.
No Matt doesn't seem to be a bad person. Narrow minded, clueless when he talks about arts he can't do (so if he can't do them they don't work right). But when you read posts by his cult followers I always think of will ferrel in "ladies man". Anyone who has enough common sense to know Matt is full of BS on some level. Is some how supposed to go rolling with another guy to be shown the light.
Hmmm, i wonder why cung le is undefeated in usa...
Well, i gues alot of ppl think like this thorton :
"go to gym to talk and ask question and do not train until there is scientificaly or some one to prove that it is effective by starting a fight with every one on the street"
Or "go to gym to train any skill, any times, any ways"
And how do you know what technique(s) "can work (and is proven to) in a variety of situations with minimum adjustments?" How is this proven to you? Or that "it can work in a live situation" for that matter? I agree that your requirements are good advice, I'm just wondering what traditional martial arts disciplines would actually answer these for you in a manner that proves the bullshit they spew.
If you watch the MMA fights. You see BJJ is similair to other traditional martial arts. With all the BS about alive training aside. Sometimes you see the BJJ win sometimes you see them lose. A fair amount of the BJJ guys just win cause their striking is better. BJJ is a great system but did better when it was new. Now that its been around people have learned to defeat it (even with so called dead training). So its like all other arts it may be good but it has weaknesses.
This has got to be the single most asinine post about MA I've ever read. My fucking brain hurts now.
Listen, dude. BJJ or wrestling, pick one. I do both, but prefer BJJ. Some prefer wrestling, and some did wrestling while they were in high school and college. Those are the guys to watch out for, because if they do six hard months of BJJ, and a year of Boxing/MT, forget about it.
You have to be able to do one of these arts in order to be an effective fighter. That is your goal, isn't it?
If that is your goal, then quit getting all argumentative, and go train to fight. If you're doing hubud, and other JKD mysticism, you are wasting your time, if you are not training submission wrestling or BJJ, and rolling competitively, you are not reaching your fighting potential. Use every MMA match as a reference.
A white belt from SBG would wipe the floor with A LOT of people after six months, and that's a fact. When grappling HARD is something -
- that you are very familiar with, fighting isn't scary. When you train alive, you know what you can do, everything is based on practicality instead of fantasy, like "BJJ ain't that important". You only say things like that because you're pretending that dead-pattern JKD is an effective style when compared to Western Boxing and BJJ, which it clearly is not, by any truly objective analysis.
Everyone should watch SBGi's "Why Aliveness" video to get a sense of what our training attitude is like.
I'm glad for this video. I keep seeing in JKD posts these clowns from this guys school. They run down any one who trains diff from them. Now I'm sure the way they train is just fine. If your in the area and you want a good MMA school great. But the way they carry on about this made up concept of aliveness its seems like a cult. Not to mention the bait and switch of calling your school straight blast gym and not teaching it. Or videos on Functional JKD when you don't teach or practice it.
Helio was not old when he started teaching. First fail. Aliveness is not a religious idea that they're trying to force on you. Second fail. Third, rolling is the term used in grappling martial arts for sparing. That is the application of the technique with someone who is struggling. Third fail.
That's rubbish. It's a legitimate and extremely comprehensive (more so in many ways than its predecessor) grappling system with a strong emphasis on groundfighting. It recognises its origins by use of the Japanese term "jiu-jitsu" but it is not Judo. It is a different art.
They are perfectly legitimate, just as arts like Sambo (which also have a Judo influence, as well as an extensive folk wrestling influence). Yet, I don't see you bitching about Sambo....
If the Gracie family wished to claim it purely as their own and dump any Japanese references, they would not have named it a Japanese term "Jiu-Jitsu" but instead something else, such as "Gracie Fighting" or "Gracie Grappling."
They called it "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" as a mark of respect to Maeda and the original art of, as it was known at the time, Kano Jiu-Jitsu.
Wrong. In the early days of the Kodokan itself, the art was still referred to simply as "Jujutsu." Later, it began to be known as "Kano Jujutsu" or "Kodokan Jujutsu," after the temple itself.
It only became known as "Judo" as of 1925. It was most certainly still referred to as "Kano Jujutsu" as of 1886, when the infamous challenge matches occurred.
You seem to have a basic grasp of the history, but lack in-depth knowledge, because in this case you are wrong.
You are wrong here. During the time that Maeda taught Judo to the Gracies, it was still referred to as "Kano Jiu-Jitsu." The name did not change until 1925, and the Gracies decided to leave it as "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" rather than change it to "Gracie Judo."
Thank you, however, for showing your supreme ignorance of the histories of both Judo and BJJ,
Untrue. BJJ is never pointless. First of all you are incorrect in it being identical to Judo newaza. I myself am a judoka who trains extensively in BJJ as well to improve my ground work.
BJJ is simply a more comprehensive groundfighting system, which has come about as a result of an almost exclusive dedication to that area. The No-Gi applications such as rubber guard, X-guard etc are vital and the positional hierarchu is taught very differently.
Pls compare urself to Cung Le which is the undefeated MMA, IKF champion
I think u r a coward cowboy who sit in a bar drunked and brag about ur self n the same time negate others ppl effort, while Cung Le is the cowboy that win any shoot out game any 1 can offer
No one in the BJJ community has ever denied the fact that BJJ evolved out of Judo. No one. If you can produce hard, verifiable evidence of the contrary, please do so. The reason why they call it Brazilian jiu Jitsu instead of Brazilian Judo is because Maeda labeled the martial art he was doing, the one that he taught the Gracies, "jiu jitsu".
Just because one martial art evolves out of another doesn't mean that its a half-baked unofficial version of its predecessor.
Your arguement also provides evidence that the Judo moves where BJJ came from don't work either since submissions are not that common anymore. But, that has more to do with the fighters wanting to stand up and, trade punches which is something the fans want to see. Demian Maia dominated Chael Sonnen (former Div. 1 wrestler) with his ground skills. His game plan was nearly flawless.
Also, every top MMA fighter trains hard against BJJ fighters, which helps their defense.
BJJ only isn't enough to win at MMA, but neither is any art only. Judo, Muay Thai, Wrestling, all aren;t enough by themselves. That BJJ can is just a straw man arguement. No one credible believes that anymore.
Also, I haven't read about any Judop players winning, much less competing at the Pan Ams, Mundials, or other top BJJ tournaments.
Your arguments are based more on emotion because you don't like BJJ. Perhaps you should visit some good schools in your area and see how well you'd do?
It won't fade away until Judo starts having competitions where they won't stand people up after they go to the ground and, Judo grapplers start beating BJJ grapplers.
Under the pin in Judo, the emphasis is on using a mix if technique, combined with explosive power to get the opponent off of you. In BJJ, the emphasis is on technique, timing and, patience to get out. I'm often told to not rely on strength, but go for leverage and, proper technique.
In his book, The Master Text, Helio says that he did not invent Jiu-Jitsu, he just refined it for weaker people.
That's his contribution and, with the rules of BJJ, you have a different, but related style.
Eddie Bravo came up with the rubber guard and, a set of related moves.
BJJ is a complete grappling only art. As far a rip off, I don't agree with that concept. It's their own interpretation.
I take classes in BJJ and, Judo under multi-black belt instructor and, have noticed many differences. In Judo, the guy on top stays in one position to make a pin, whearas in BJJ, the guys move around on top looking for a submission.
BJJ is what's effective. Royce is middle aged and, probably wasn't as good as his hype. What was impressive is how a 170 pound guy could beat so many people in the early UFC's. I've read a number articles and, one book and, no one ever sais that the fights were fixed. In fact, no MMA journalist has ever made that claim.
Your videos only prove that Royce has issues and, Renzo had at least one foul.
The Manhoef vs. Crosley Gracie only proved that Croisley didn't belong in an MMA ring.
It is a style in it's own right. Judo doesn't have submission only rules and, they often stand their players up if they aren't making quick progress. They also never spent much time fighting against other arts, which the Gracies and, other BJJ fighters did.
If you cannot see the legacy that the Gracies wrought, your willfully blind.
When MMA announcers talk about Jiu-Jitsu skill of fighter like BJ Penn, Damien Maia and, Frank Mir, among hundreds of others) they aren't misleading anyone.
Under your standards, Judo was a "rip-off" of Fusen Ryu and, that was probably a rip-off of earlier forms of JuJitsu.
There is a saying that we all stand on the shoulders of giants. The giants are those who came before us. Everything we do is based on what those people did. If everything had to be like inventing the wheel, we would be no where.
In addition, the Gracies don't have McDojos, unless you mean the Academy run by Rorian.
There is a whole other side of the family, Carlos Gracieand, other of Helio's sons, such as Rickson, Royler. Plus thousands of others who have proven the effectiveness of BJJ.
What they do is the exact opposite of "a not very good on e at that." They have fantastic skills and, their success in submission grappling, MMA, etc., have proven that.
Finally, Kimura was a professional wrestler, a con man, in other words who portrayed a Japanese super hero who defeated "giant" Americans to believing Japanese fans who wanted to feel better about themselves after a humiliating defeat in WWII. Pro wrestling was also heavily influenced by the Japanese Yakuza.
If Kimura's level of honor and, integrity were so angelic, he wouldn't have pretended to beat other wrestlers and, would have stayed completly away from pro wrestling.
Wasn't that nice of Kimura? Everyone can have their own opinions. Their opinion is more valid than mine. We'll never know the real truth, though. No matter what, Helio's legacy is as one of the founders of BJJ and, that legacy is sound.
I read several articles on Judoinfo com and while Helio may have used hype, he wasn't made a fool of. For a guy that learned a variety of things from Maeda, he did quite well for himself.
BJJ is known world wide as one of the best grappling arts, while "Newaza" is just one small phase of modern Judo.
It only means ground tactics and, BJJ has done well.
Under the rules of the match, he had to submit him, or break something and, he did the later only after 13 minutes. The article never said that he thought he "toyed" with him. He dominated the match, but the 13 minutes it took him to beat Helio and, Helios earlier defeat of Kato proves that Helio wasn't a joke.
It took Kimura over 13 minutes to defeat Gracie, so it wasn't the "fool" making that you claim. He would have beaten him much quicker. Also, Gracie beat Kato who was a 5th degree black belt with a choke in 10 minutes. Hardly a fool!
Actually, Helio beat a top Judoka while in his early 40's and, did well against the best Judoka in the world. Chokes and, joint locks are quite dangerous. Submissions are for sport and, practice. In a real fight, they are put on fast and, have the desired effect.
A top Judoka, or BJJ fighter will likely win out over someone who has only practised the "deadly" techniques against unresisting opponents. The Tokyo police trials between JuJitsu and, Judo about 100 years ago is evidence.
Racism means that one believes that racial differences are genetic in nature and, cannot be overcome. Mr. Thornton does not believe that and, his comments were not based on anything inherent in Asian society, just that most traditional arts seem to be cult like in his view. The emphasis is on cult, not Asian.
In addition, he believes in muscle memory, reflexes, etc. It's just that after the dead drills, you have to practice in an alive manner in order to learn how to do it on a resisting opponent.
Matt T. recomends Judo and, Muay Thai as "alive" arts and, they both come from Asian nations!
In addition, he follows Helio because his art is alive and, has proven itself by fighting and, beating a variety of fighters from different styles, not people from the same style. Helio also never kept his art secret. Everything was out in the open.
Christian... are u sure? He quotes krisnamurti heavilly and judging by his writings and THIS INTERVIEW he doesn't hold religion in too high regard. I also believe he has a tattoo of a Hindu deity on his back. If your referring to others to mean TMA's yeah I'd say your right. The fact is (as I've experience with 2 schools) TMA's are unfortunately prone to be quasi-cults and mix good techniques with quite frankly garbage...
"most of the times, yes, but if you don't train with aliveness then the majority of traditional martial artists do not have what i think you need in a fight: timing, atletisiscm, functional attacks and defences"
R u diverting every1 attention that u dun hav something like this (watch?v=6iDlzL7zrNU) which r not "ALIVENESS"
how are you gonna hit your aggressive, 100% resisting, adrenaline fueled opponent in the eye or the throat with your fingers, when you can't even hit them in the face with a 14oz boxing glove? just wondering...
i believe that most traditional MA, can't hit with accuracy in "real" situations becouse THEY DONT SPAR! they train dead patterns wich have no bace in reality anymore. and kiro, you are aware of the fact that he is gonna be able to gouge you to, and would you clinch with someone that has a knife? i know i wouldn't.
Its obvious that they have the same options as me. You asked how I would gouge him, and I gave you a very simple reality based answer. Then you say what about a knife? The likelyhood of a sport MA guy to gouge is less then TMA since most guys will stick with what they know. As for the knife, both are as likely to be able to defend the attck since neither is properly prepared, although the TMA has more options since they do practice weapons disarmament.
The possibility of my opponent using the same techniques as me has got to be the stupidest argument I've yet to come across, right up there with peoples unwillingness to assimilate a technique that has a counter.
to the person who posted this. you are a faggot!
evaddrol1 3 weeks ago
This is a forum, so obviously there are going to be a variety of opinions. Now without talking shit about the opposition (I happen to agree with Matt and his opinion) (BTW), why someone would post something like this is beyond me... I guess you are entitiled to your thoughts too. But is there no validity to what Matt says or thinks? He's composed, and educated enough to get on here and speak the truth.
sdboatpainter 1 month ago
He's a tool but he's 100% right.
DrOprahVonPenishat 2 months ago
Hey poster. Where is your gym at?
TheWizzooo 3 months ago
You have weak language comprehension. He's not insulting Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, he's insulting traditional martial arts that work off of forms/kata instead of realness. HE TRAINS IN BJJ you dunce. Research facts before you make videos to insult. It just makes you look like a moron for not comprehending what he means.
Viktir666 3 months ago
i don't know this guy matt thornton but he didn't say anything wrong.
UberTankred 4 months ago
The poster is Bullshido. Matt Thorton speaks common sense.
buffmedic01 4 months ago 3
Cool story bro..
Breetastic 4 months ago
wow iv been personally trained by Matt and he is a fantastic coach, this video clearly isn't the entire interview and the maker of this video is trying to twist what Matt's real message is
seanglory1 5 months ago
In all my years in the military and in the security industry I have NEVER seen a padded floor or a ring or cage when an assault rifle,handgun, or knife was introduced into the equation. The problem with some MMA fighters is NOT that they are not proficient, it is with their attempt to further elevate themselves by discrediting anyone else that dos not do what they do. The intelligent fighter will realize the MMA means Mixed Martial Art.... implying a mix of already existing traditional arts.
SpartanCombativesGrp 6 months ago
@SpartanCombativesGrp Without traditional samurai jujutsu there would not be Judo... Without Judo there would be no BJJ... without BJJ there would be no UFC1....... without UFC1 there would most likely be no MMA.... So I am pretty sure the Traditional 15th century Samurai of Feudal Japan are the ancient Grandmasters of MMA...... and they did it all without smart ass kids in tap out t-shirts, and bad attitudes...how odd. Same story with boxing to Filipino/Indonesian/Thai arts.
SpartanCombativesGrp 6 months ago
@SpartanCombativesGrp i agree with what you are saying iv taken traditional martial arts since i was eight im now 15 and i do bjj and kickboxing but like i said in my comment this isnt the whole interview thats exactly the message the creator of this video wanted you to get but if you actually talk to matt its really not what his point was that traditional martial art were bad, just outdated
seanglory1 5 months ago
Did someone make fun of you on Bullshido because you do Aikido? do you want to talk about it?
GracieBarraMofo 7 months ago
I trained with Thornton, he's real deal.
scottyroadrunner 7 months ago
Why has this Realbulldick got such a hard on for these guys? tosser
tattoodfreeek 7 months ago
shit video
herrzyklon 8 months ago
@Ljenkins9000 BJJ is jujutsu, from Asia. MMA is mostly Thai kickboxing, an Asian martial art and BJJ. Some are still confusing the culural trappings with the principles behind the techniques.
pedinkus 9 months ago
You are the new Michael Moore.. you took a bunch of footage from a decent MMA video set and twisted it, took it out of context and made Thornton look like a nazi. Congratulations.
johnnykage 10 months ago
You are the new Michael Moore.. you took a bunch of footage from a decent MMA vdieo set and twisted it, took it out of context and made Thornton look like a nazi. Congratulations.
johnnykage 10 months ago
@nexusutube You left out bayonets, hands and feet. My point really is that this guy in the video confuses some of the trappings of some Asian MA with the techniques and principles that make the techniques work.
pedinkus 11 months ago
If Asian martial arts don't work, why does every military and police force in the world use them? How were the Gracies able to defeat so many boxers and wrestlers(believe it or not, jujutsu came from Asia) If it's so cultish, how do you explain the Christian, Muslim, and non-religious karate organizations around the world?
pedinkus 1 year ago
@pedinkus Militaries dont use them. They use guns, tanks and artillery. The Gracies were so successful because they abandoned the cultish devotion to a masters teaching and constantly tested and refined their jujitsu. They didnt take anything on faith.
nexusutube 11 months ago
"If Asian martial arts don't work, why does every military and police force in the world use them?"
This isn't true. The US military, for one, has been doing BJJ based MMA since 2001. Police are also moving towards more realistic training. But the primary purpose of hand to hand training in modern militaries is not effectiveness, it's the confidence, competition, fitness etc. It is extremely unlikely that anyone in a war today would ever have to use hand to hand combat skills.
Ljenkins9000 9 months ago
The "real system" lmao! If you don't see anything that looks like traditional forms in real fights how can you say it works?
0713mas 1 year ago
what is the point of this video?
joenobody13 1 year ago
Not the best troll I've seen (That would be Nick Ring) but not the worst, 3.9/5
electronikita 1 year ago
Matt Thornton is the real deal. These dudes saying Matt is bullshido are complete dumbasses.
ChokeYouOutAgain 1 year ago
lol this video is so stupid. Typical cry baby crap when your "art" is shown as crap.
Chizilds 1 year ago
Racist generalization? He's saying most Asian martial arts. How's that racist?
Which goes back to when US Marines studied martial arts in Asia and brought it back here, and did a very bad job teaching it.
Da1RiSiN1sMoKe 1 year ago
Matt Thornton's pissed off because the Asian's didn't teach him the real system, just watered down versions that he couldn't use in the street. Asian's been teaching the American gov't real life/death situation combative MA before there was the first White master perhaps Master Guy Savelli. Matt Thornton's just taking his MA and applying it to America's thought about fighting. Don't get brain washed by this guy, anyone who practices MA when you reach a certain level you do things that works 4 u.
Byakuya79 1 year ago
Matt Thoronton's ideas are not bad. They are worth investigating. I rate him. He had studied traditional arts too, If I recall but changed his methodology.
dreamcastII 1 year ago
Define 'Innocent martial artists'
BuffaloTC 1 year ago
what the hell is this? was this made by a ten year old?
Moosh50 1 year ago 2
Asian like jiu-jitsu and muay thai?
tiecuando 1 year ago
This is racist.
christlicker 1 year ago
Lots of jibberjabber. Nice video.
muchmoremrniceguy 1 year ago
hes not saying these TMA's are bad, hes saying the way theyre taught is 90% of the time wrong. the dude has a bjj black belt under the machados. go train your sil um fag tao and we shall train to fight
0796033335 1 year ago
@0796033335 oh, so he's claiming teachings from a higher source?
pacificimporters 1 year ago
@pacificimporters
Negative. He's claiming that is a BIG warning sign and that cults commonly use that tactic to fool their sheep. Like in most Christian neo-con death cults.
smackroscoe 1 year ago
the long pauses during/after the 'insults' (which, in my opinion, were laughable) - you think saying "asian martial arts" is racist? can we not even specify the continent from which a sport originates? would calling something an 'American fighting style' be equally racist?
I have no vested interest in this feud, hearing only of this thornton guy five minutes ago but he has clearly upset a lot of people who seem to have a lot of baseless attacks against him.
mackhomie 1 year ago
lol this video is actually kinda a fail attempt.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
Isn't AA a cult?
taodancing 1 year ago
Matt Thornton forgot more about real fighting than you will ever know. GO ATHEISTS!
oldpetty 1 year ago
HE HAS SOME GOOD POINTS
IOjhjdhf 1 year ago
he is really right! especially in win chun i see it often. or in karate.
i do combat sambo, mma and brazilian jiu jitsu and we have no mysteries. no forms and no higher technique
fightefx 1 year ago
Um. You do know that Helio (in his DAMN OLD AGE) rolled with Saulo Ribeiro... AND SAULO COULDN'T SUBMIT HIM.
Lahed92801 1 year ago
This video doesn't prove anything... wtf?
MartialArts4Ever 1 year ago 2
Bullshido is the real thing and the guy who posted this lame bid is my bitch
cygroltd 1 year ago
This is such a weak character assassination attempt without any actual content... typical of mcdojo dance arts.
tuntitommosille 1 year ago
ya i agree on his aliveness...but i cant stand him putting down all martial arts ..like his is the gospel truth..
djdarryltaylor 1 year ago
TheRealBullDen--you really have NO idea what you are talking about--I guess (im guessing now) that you are one of those ego-maniacs that thinks he has the answer--yep---
listen more--and learn--stay as you are---and fail
FAIL
makoa67 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
To the person who put up this video. You're a complete idiot. Let me guess. You're a krotty instructor, or a wing chun instructor, or aikido instructor? Matt Thornton is an awesome coach, and is skilled in JKD, BJJ, and others. You're an idiotic loser.
ChokeYouOutAgain 1 year ago
To the person who put up this video. You're a complete idiot. Let me guess. You're a krotty instructor, or a wing chun instructor, or aikido instructor? Matt Thornton is an awesome coach, and is skilled in JKD, BJJ, and others. You're an idiotic loser.
ChokeYouOutAgain 1 year ago 17
@ChokeYouOutAgain True...the guy who put this video up is a complete idiot.
Ruffruff2006 5 months ago
To the person who put up this video. You're a complete idiot. Let me guess. You're a krotty instructor, or a wing chun instructor, or aikido instructor? Matt Thornton is an awesome coach, and is skilled in JKD, BJJ, and others. You're an idiotic loser.
ChokeYouOutAgain 1 year ago
I think Matt has several excellent points about Mcdojo style martial arts instruction.
I believe his intentions are to update training methods and make the martial arts as a whole more sport oriented based martial arts supported by physics, and science. Rather than practically function less meditative like training that contradicts the fundamentals of all fighting styles.
He is not saying don't train safe or not to have fun or learn self defense.
0713mas 1 year ago
TheRealBull...I'd have to say that you have done a pretty poor job at defaming Mr Thornton. I mean the indications that he may be drunk or intoxicated. Not relevant to the real point. While that said, I agree that his is no less a cult then many other martial arts are. Not as "don't question what Matt says" but rather "if you don't do SBG, you're lame and don't know anything". And I do not agree that he was beign racist when refering to Asian martial arts.
Abobojo 1 year ago 2
Was this made by some butt-hurt asian TMA wanker?
tuntitommosille 1 year ago 2
This video is completely pointless, although I don't agree with everything about Matt Thornton it's really stupid to try and discredit him this way.
SpartanJKD 1 year ago 3
You are not very good at pranking people
DarkTempIarKain 2 years ago
Laaaaame :D
amirgattami 2 years ago
As for competition, Matt was very dominant as a heavyweight in competition, but that was about ten years ago. His students continue to win often in both grappling and MMA, amateur and pro. Former students, associates, and SBGi alumni include
Forrest Griffin
Kenny Florian
Robert Follis
Dan Henderson
Randy Couture
Rory Singer
Nate Quarry
Travis Davison
and dozens of others. Do you think those guys are tough? Do you picture any of them calling their coach fucking Sifu, Guru, Master, or Sensei?
haircutdeluxe 2 years ago 11
How many comps has Greg Jackson won? Or how about Cus D'amato?
It seems sort of silly to judge someone by their "street fighting" record. How do you get those, anyway? Go around trying to start fights with people on the street? "Oh, my street fighting record is excellent, especially my last fight, when I bashed that stranger's head against the sidewalk, and slapped his loud mouth girlfriend. That got me to 33-4-2. "
WTF?
haircutdeluxe 2 years ago
Blah, Blah, Blah...
Never seen this guys win any REAL competition anyway, not to mention his street fighting winning record which is ZERO or NEVER!!!
LOL
How effective can u be if u nerver win any REAL competition and REAL street fight anyway, Matt?
pangyf25250 2 years ago
masutatsu oyama f... up a bull several times by bare HANDS, masahiko kimura was a monster but he was like 5ft 6inch, and he would challenge anyone to a street fight and WIN, same as HELIO AND CARLSON, yeah martial arts are BS...
Eliano55 2 years ago
? matt thornton is a proponent of finding out what works in a fight. how could that ever be bullshit?
stevensartifacts 2 years ago 3
This video is like flypaper for idiots. Seriously. Are you guys really THAT stupid?
Comparing Chi Sau and Master Worship to FUCKING CHRISTMAS?
haircutdeluxe 2 years ago
It's funny how you are doing exactly the same of what they propose and, just like the "LARPer", they get mad.
biporio 2 years ago
hahahaha he says have a ritual to keep people accoupied like what Christmas I bet this ignorant and hypocrite celebrates Christmas man this guy is so much bullshit I like this video 5 stars hahahaha
650sFinnest 2 years ago
what???
crystalnrich 2 years ago
Chuck Norris' dog is trained to pick up his own poop because Chuck Norris will not take shit from anyone.
mofotax 2 years ago 3
Ha!
crystalnrich 2 years ago
I do oriental marcial arts, and I know mi master (from chile) mi master masters (fron Argentina) and the "holy-cow-god-source-off-all-creation",comunly known as sensey. There is "false humble" and each shihan teaches what he learned and interpretated, what Matt said? pure "bullshit"
googlenatic 2 years ago
I would disagree that BJJ isn't necessary, because positional at least, BJJ and Catch are indistinguishable when done no-gi. A fighter with neither BJJ or Catch? That's not impossible, but even with Sambo or Judo, those guys learn BJJ or Catch on top of their other art. No one would insinuate that Fedor doesn't know Catch or BJJ, and relies %100 on Sambo. There is obviously some bleed-over.
Can one grapple without BJJ or Catch? Without a doubt. But learning the two makes a better grappler.
haircutdeluxe 2 years ago 3
I think Matt makes a lot of sense. The better you are, the more sense you make, the more you notice how much jealousy there is in the world.
Ghostfuture 2 years ago 2
(continued from previous) Unless that person actually makes a point of saying that they are or want to be a fighter, then I think they deserve less derision. (If they do, then they should be able to put up or shut up however)
2. BJJ isn't neccessary. Grappling is. There's way too much BJJ elitism going on. Just because you took BJJ for a few months or even a few years doesn't mean you are invulnerable to great, hard-working practitioners of Judo, Sambo, Catch, Folk/Freestyle, etc.
Carrera26 2 years ago 3
"I'm generally very supportive of aliveness and the general Bullshido push for more reality and less mysticism. I think that there are 2 general flaws in the way most of their members seem to approach things though."
Bullshido members are not concerned with people who have any other aims in martial arts other than learning how to fight/defend yourself though. They stop bashing someone once they finally admit they just like LARPing and playing around in pajamas rather than learning to fight.
Ljenkins9000 1 year ago
I'm generally very supportive of aliveness and the general Bullshido push for more reality and less mysticism. I think that there are 2 general flaws in the way most of their members seem to approach things though.
1. Not everyone taking a martial art is actually interested in learning how to fight in a ring or in the street. Most people in America take MA for a fun fitness activity and for sense of community. Some enjoy competing in that MA as a sport. A very few actually want to fight.
Carrera26 2 years ago 12
@Carrera26 Why would someone take a "martial" art if they didn't want to fight?
rezonator636 1 year ago
@Carrera26 The thing with martial arts is that, without the fighting part, they are no longer martial. I mean, why not join a dancing class if you don't want to fight? I've been dancing on and off since I was a kid and it's a ton of fun, it has a pretty social atmosphere, there's not a hint of violence, and there is more activity than in some "martial art" classes.
Also, it's not like you're forced to compete. Even the vast majority of bullshido members are recreational martial artists.
Kantzarakos 1 year ago
@Carrera26 Granted, but the trouble is most TMA schools aren't honest with their students. And tell them that they are learning how to defend themselves in a street fight. These students than go out with a sense of false confidence, thinking they know hot to fight on the street, and putting themselves at risk. All so some "master" can keep making money. Yes, I'm generalizing, as this is the case with 99.9% of TMA schools I've seen or trained at.
scythe0704 6 months ago
@Carrera26 Matt acknowledges this.
Ruffruff2006 5 months ago
This seems pretty straight up to me. I can't vouch for his actual skills or anything like that but he's right on the money. Most martial arts are a joke and have been proven so over and over again. Anyone who hasn't stepped in an MMA type ring to apply their skills without many rules(other than for safety)is lying to themselves and to others. I know Ego is a hard thing to overcome but the proof is out there. His religion analogy is perfect. Watch the gracie challenge vids.
MstrKey 2 years ago 2
Oh, and I'm laughing out loud at KC's not being sure of Matt's JKD. The guy was running a certified JKD school when you were in diapers. I would invite anyone to do a Google search on the subject, and see for yourself whether or not you think Matt, a BJJ Black belt who's been involved with JKD Concepts for 20 years and knows Insanto (also a BJJ black belt btw) and Burton Richardson on a first name basis, is qualified in fact to criticize what he sees as flaws in the teaching of practical combat.
haircutdeluxe 2 years ago 2
I train at Matt's gym in Portland. He's an EXCELLENT coach and a great guy. He's not out to tear people down, and he's definitely not in it to make money. From what I can tell, he's honestly concerned about the quality of training found at most TMA schools. He just doesn't like seeing people get taken by all these charlatan woo-fighters, and neither do I (because I've been there.)
rainbows4dinos 2 years ago
and that guy's opponent is in for a long night.
Dude, you're talking about hubud when you're talking about "dead training". What good is pretending that you're going to block punches with a flick of your wrist going to do to help that guy's game?
Pretending doesn't help you get better, but low resistance can introduce you to a technique and help you learn it. What technique is hubud teaching me, anyway? Looking Like an Idiot" technique? "This Only Works When You Help Me Do It" technique?
haircutdeluxe 2 years ago 2
And this street thing. Be serious. Any body who trains boxing, wrestling, MT, Judo, or BJJ is capable of defending themselves bare knuckle on concrete. But someone who trains all 5 is much MORE capable of defending themselves.
And if they practiced those techniques against resisting opponents, and cast aside their useless and dead training techniques?
Boy howdy. Sorry, bub, but that guy will kick ass up and down the street. Add cardio, and the functional strength that comes with grappling
haircutdeluxe 2 years ago 2
Still at it, huh, KC? How old are you, anyway?
Everything that you write is absurd. I would consider any martial artist who doesn't have ground game to be an incomplete fighter. I want to be able to be effective as a fighter, so I have learned BJJ.
Your entire thesis seems to be that BJJ isn't necessary, which is silly. Of course it is. If we fought, and I transitioned to mount, which I would, what are you going to do about it? From that position, do you have any training at all?
haircutdeluxe 2 years ago
The big thing is whether its on the street or in a MMA ring. There are going to be people who have strengths and weaknesses. This applies to training, learning & fighting. Some people will do very well training with the alive philosophy. Others will need more dead drilling. My big problem is many people are confusing what may have worked for Matt with what will work for everyone.
Kc1189 2 years ago
And I love the way he trashes dead drills unless he does them. Then they are conditioning drills. Look through his vid's on you tube. He started trashing a dead drill or two person form. Then corrects himself calling it a conditioning drill.
Kc1189 2 years ago
I'm not sure I really have a problem with Thornton. It's the way people claiming to be his students trash proven training. He put out a series of DVD's called functional JKD when I'm not sure it functional and I'm sure it's not JKD. My only hope is to educate people looking for JKD to find it.
From what I've been able to find either he never was a JKD instructor or he lost it.
Kc1189 2 years ago
In response to Axis
Most of what you have said about JKD IMHO is right in a very basic sense.
It not so much as whatever works. It's about learning all ranges of combat. Getting competent in them learning what works for you & expanding on it. It then becomes about blending them & making them work. The main thing you get from a good background in JKD is how to examine & train various arts. How to get the best from an art and move on. You learn to take what is useful & ditch the rest.
Kc1189 2 years ago
In Response to Celtic's Comment.
Brian Warren 11-13-1
3ko's & 4 submissions.
Jason Von Flue 14-12-1
1 ko & 11 submissions
Tony "the freak" Frykland 14-9-0
6 ko's & 8 submissions
Sam Morgan 19-12-0
4 ko's & 13 submissions
So yes some good guys. Also Frank Shamrock I'd say is still a pretty good fighter. He lost to Chun Le from a broken arm (he kept fighting with it till the end of the round.) And lost to a guy who may have been high and unable to feel pain.
Kc1189 2 years ago
Comment removed
BriggsSeekins 2 years ago
JKD is a philosophy more than a specific, defined art. I've heard it summed up as quickly as "whatever works."
I know there's a lot of guys out there, that say "I teach the martial art of Jeet Kune Do." But to hear Bruce talk about it in his books and in interviews it's more like "The Martial Philosophy of Jeet Kune Do" making it more akin to other martial philosophies like "Sun Tzu's art of war."
I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to zing him on, KC.
AxisAnalysis 2 years ago
He was probably told certain training was bad or worthless. And it probably was for the purpose of that example or type of fight or for that venue. And he vary childishly assumed it was true for every person or situation. Or he saw a real good BJJ guy and just got sucked in. You again used to see this back in the 80's. Larry is the best, Paul is the best, Dan is the best JKD guy. Yet the JKD legends had the utmost respect for each other and their methods.
Kc1189 2 years ago
If you are interested in a good solid MMA game Matt might not be the best choice but I'd bet he's not the worst. But as far anything other than MMA he should be ignored. Don't drink the coolaid. He has at best an incomplete understanding of JKD and it has warped his view of other arts and his students. This happened in the 80's the real JKD instructors made passing comments on High Kicks for self defense. So soon everyone was saying JKD says high kicks are bad.
Kc1189 2 years ago
Now he doesn't claim to have an instructorship in JKD or Kali. He just claims to have been exposed to it. Either he had a apprentice (very basic you teach what you know as little as one technique) and had it revoked or never had it. I could very easily make a art called Functional Taekwan do. It would look like boxing, a little ground game, mostly Thai boxing with some savate thrown in. It might even be very good. But anyone who know TKD would know its not TKD
Kc1189 2 years ago
Lets look at the facts. He calls his organisation "Straight Blast Gym". The straight blast is a Wing Chun tech made popular by Bruce Lee through JKD. He doesn't teach JKD or the straight blast. He teaches the sport of MMA. He sold tapes called "functional JKD". He used to teach Kali and JKD (he claims). His bio claims no instructor rank in kali or JKD. He trained jkd 1988-90. Taught jkd from like 1990-92 (this is off his bio page at SBG Portland)
Kc1189 2 years ago
The problem with Matt is he went into these arts with the idea they couldn't work (so they didn't) or he had a bad jr instructor (so he wasn't taught right or completely) or he wasted years unable to grasp advanced techniques or make complicated arts work. And now bashes what he was unable to grasp.
Kc1189 2 years ago
Cung Le is the best example from MMA. No one knows how good his ground game is cause damn good ground guys can't get past his strikes. Look at the 2 gracies who fought Shamrock. They are probably 2 fine BJJ guys and one got dropped 30 seconds into the fight. The other got a knee to the back of the head while totally dominating shamrock on the ground.
Kc1189 2 years ago
Damn good guys? A washed up frank shamrock who made the mistake of deciding to stand up with a standup fighter? Cung le is retired, he quit fighting, he wants to make movies. He knows if he were to lose no one would give a shit about seeing him so he gave up his belt.
CelticWarriorIX 2 years ago
No Matt doesn't seem to be a bad person. Narrow minded, clueless when he talks about arts he can't do (so if he can't do them they don't work right). But when you read posts by his cult followers I always think of will ferrel in "ladies man". Anyone who has enough common sense to know Matt is full of BS on some level. Is some how supposed to go rolling with another guy to be shown the light.
Kc1189 2 years ago
Hmmm, i wonder why cung le is undefeated in usa...
Well, i gues alot of ppl think like this thorton :
"go to gym to talk and ask question and do not train until there is scientificaly or some one to prove that it is effective by starting a fight with every one on the street"
Or "go to gym to train any skill, any times, any ways"
Who u think will win in real fight?
pangyf25250 2 years ago
TBH - I am not interested in the 'traditions' or the 'authenticity' of any MA I choose to study.
I only really ask for a few simple things...
1) that each technique is shown and explained clearly
2) that the technique can work (and is proved to) in a variety of situations with minimum adjustments.
3) That it can work in a live situation
And if it fails any of the 3 categories the instructor has the grace to re-think and re-test...
aliveness should help ticking the 3 and avoiding failure
scopeophile 2 years ago
And how do you know what technique(s) "can work (and is proven to) in a variety of situations with minimum adjustments?" How is this proven to you? Or that "it can work in a live situation" for that matter? I agree that your requirements are good advice, I'm just wondering what traditional martial arts disciplines would actually answer these for you in a manner that proves the bullshit they spew.
Blndrfist 2 years ago
Yeah if you hate SBGi you can go suck a dick
nos4a2007 2 years ago
lame vid.
shaokhan79 2 years ago
If you watch the MMA fights. You see BJJ is similair to other traditional martial arts. With all the BS about alive training aside. Sometimes you see the BJJ win sometimes you see them lose. A fair amount of the BJJ guys just win cause their striking is better. BJJ is a great system but did better when it was new. Now that its been around people have learned to defeat it (even with so called dead training). So its like all other arts it may be good but it has weaknesses.
Kc1189 2 years ago
This has got to be the single most asinine post about MA I've ever read. My fucking brain hurts now.
Listen, dude. BJJ or wrestling, pick one. I do both, but prefer BJJ. Some prefer wrestling, and some did wrestling while they were in high school and college. Those are the guys to watch out for, because if they do six hard months of BJJ, and a year of Boxing/MT, forget about it.
You have to be able to do one of these arts in order to be an effective fighter. That is your goal, isn't it?
haircutdeluxe 2 years ago
You want to learn how to fight, right?
If that is your goal, then quit getting all argumentative, and go train to fight. If you're doing hubud, and other JKD mysticism, you are wasting your time, if you are not training submission wrestling or BJJ, and rolling competitively, you are not reaching your fighting potential. Use every MMA match as a reference.
A white belt from SBG would wipe the floor with A LOT of people after six months, and that's a fact. When grappling HARD is something -
haircutdeluxe 2 years ago 2
- that you are very familiar with, fighting isn't scary. When you train alive, you know what you can do, everything is based on practicality instead of fantasy, like "BJJ ain't that important". You only say things like that because you're pretending that dead-pattern JKD is an effective style when compared to Western Boxing and BJJ, which it clearly is not, by any truly objective analysis.
Everyone should watch SBGi's "Why Aliveness" video to get a sense of what our training attitude is like.
haircutdeluxe 2 years ago
I'm glad for this video. I keep seeing in JKD posts these clowns from this guys school. They run down any one who trains diff from them. Now I'm sure the way they train is just fine. If your in the area and you want a good MMA school great. But the way they carry on about this made up concept of aliveness its seems like a cult. Not to mention the bait and switch of calling your school straight blast gym and not teaching it. Or videos on Functional JKD when you don't teach or practice it.
Kc1189 2 years ago
Haha, whoever made this video is a fucking idiot.
ParanoidUnge 2 years ago
Helio was not old when he started teaching. First fail. Aliveness is not a religious idea that they're trying to force on you. Second fail. Third, rolling is the term used in grappling martial arts for sparing. That is the application of the technique with someone who is struggling. Third fail.
Mortido 2 years ago
That's rubbish. It's a legitimate and extremely comprehensive (more so in many ways than its predecessor) grappling system with a strong emphasis on groundfighting. It recognises its origins by use of the Japanese term "jiu-jitsu" but it is not Judo. It is a different art.
They are perfectly legitimate, just as arts like Sambo (which also have a Judo influence, as well as an extensive folk wrestling influence). Yet, I don't see you bitching about Sambo....
ilikeaeroplanejelly 2 years ago 5
OP is an assface.
MarcusDBrutus 2 years ago
If the Gracie family wished to claim it purely as their own and dump any Japanese references, they would not have named it a Japanese term "Jiu-Jitsu" but instead something else, such as "Gracie Fighting" or "Gracie Grappling."
They called it "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" as a mark of respect to Maeda and the original art of, as it was known at the time, Kano Jiu-Jitsu.
ilikeaeroplanejelly 2 years ago 5
Wrong. In the early days of the Kodokan itself, the art was still referred to simply as "Jujutsu." Later, it began to be known as "Kano Jujutsu" or "Kodokan Jujutsu," after the temple itself.
It only became known as "Judo" as of 1925. It was most certainly still referred to as "Kano Jujutsu" as of 1886, when the infamous challenge matches occurred.
You seem to have a basic grasp of the history, but lack in-depth knowledge, because in this case you are wrong.
ilikeaeroplanejelly 2 years ago 5
You are wrong here. During the time that Maeda taught Judo to the Gracies, it was still referred to as "Kano Jiu-Jitsu." The name did not change until 1925, and the Gracies decided to leave it as "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" rather than change it to "Gracie Judo."
Thank you, however, for showing your supreme ignorance of the histories of both Judo and BJJ,
ilikeaeroplanejelly 2 years ago 18
Untrue. BJJ is never pointless. First of all you are incorrect in it being identical to Judo newaza. I myself am a judoka who trains extensively in BJJ as well to improve my ground work.
BJJ is simply a more comprehensive groundfighting system, which has come about as a result of an almost exclusive dedication to that area. The No-Gi applications such as rubber guard, X-guard etc are vital and the positional hierarchu is taught very differently.
ilikeaeroplanejelly 2 years ago 4
lol, that guy is such an ignorant asshole.
wasssuuuppp420 2 years ago
Dear Mr. Thorton
Pls compare urself to Cung Le which is the undefeated MMA, IKF champion
I think u r a coward cowboy who sit in a bar drunked and brag about ur self n the same time negate others ppl effort, while Cung Le is the cowboy that win any shoot out game any 1 can offer
What u think about that?
pangyf25250 2 years ago
Is there anywhere I can see the real interview this video was made from, without these stupid subtitles and edits?
LouisLeMort 2 years ago
Never mind, I found the original video myself. Its called "Martial Arts Cult" and of course its right here on Youtube.
LouisLeMort 2 years ago
what on earth are you talking about, "bjj loosing favor in the mma world". you talk silly.
kimakemoen 2 years ago
I agree with some of his ideas but those thing are low level training.the fact that you still harbor or care,shows your mental.
calling them cults is wrong,thats how other races would see it.but if you understood asain culture and our beliefs,a cult is a clan.
the artist is the art,and is more important than somones esles idea of art.
jumokdragon 2 years ago
Dear Mr Doom.
No one in the BJJ community has ever denied the fact that BJJ evolved out of Judo. No one. If you can produce hard, verifiable evidence of the contrary, please do so. The reason why they call it Brazilian jiu Jitsu instead of Brazilian Judo is because Maeda labeled the martial art he was doing, the one that he taught the Gracies, "jiu jitsu".
Just because one martial art evolves out of another doesn't mean that its a half-baked unofficial version of its predecessor.
esgietheqroue 2 years ago
Troll?
If not:
"they are scared people will figure out that all they do is teach un-official half baked Judo that is not sanctioned by the Kodokan."
And judo in turn is nothing but half-baked un-official classic jujutsu not sanctioned by the shogun, i take it?
esgietheqroue 2 years ago
right the fuck on man! WHAT U SAY ABOUT THAT MR duuuooomb!
kimakemoen 2 years ago
Your arguement also provides evidence that the Judo moves where BJJ came from don't work either since submissions are not that common anymore. But, that has more to do with the fighters wanting to stand up and, trade punches which is something the fans want to see. Demian Maia dominated Chael Sonnen (former Div. 1 wrestler) with his ground skills. His game plan was nearly flawless.
Also, every top MMA fighter trains hard against BJJ fighters, which helps their defense.
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 years ago
BJJ only isn't enough to win at MMA, but neither is any art only. Judo, Muay Thai, Wrestling, all aren;t enough by themselves. That BJJ can is just a straw man arguement. No one credible believes that anymore.
Also, I haven't read about any Judop players winning, much less competing at the Pan Ams, Mundials, or other top BJJ tournaments.
Your arguments are based more on emotion because you don't like BJJ. Perhaps you should visit some good schools in your area and see how well you'd do?
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 years ago 4
It won't fade away until Judo starts having competitions where they won't stand people up after they go to the ground and, Judo grapplers start beating BJJ grapplers.
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 years ago
Under the pin in Judo, the emphasis is on using a mix if technique, combined with explosive power to get the opponent off of you. In BJJ, the emphasis is on technique, timing and, patience to get out. I'm often told to not rely on strength, but go for leverage and, proper technique.
In his book, The Master Text, Helio says that he did not invent Jiu-Jitsu, he just refined it for weaker people.
That's his contribution and, with the rules of BJJ, you have a different, but related style.
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 years ago
Eddie Bravo came up with the rubber guard and, a set of related moves.
BJJ is a complete grappling only art. As far a rip off, I don't agree with that concept. It's their own interpretation.
I take classes in BJJ and, Judo under multi-black belt instructor and, have noticed many differences. In Judo, the guy on top stays in one position to make a pin, whearas in BJJ, the guys move around on top looking for a submission.
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 years ago
Thats only in competition Judo, and only in schools that don't teach aggressive ground work. A pin is one way to win, but so is a arm lock or choke.
TheTerrorUforgot 2 years ago
BJJ is what's effective. Royce is middle aged and, probably wasn't as good as his hype. What was impressive is how a 170 pound guy could beat so many people in the early UFC's. I've read a number articles and, one book and, no one ever sais that the fights were fixed. In fact, no MMA journalist has ever made that claim.
Your videos only prove that Royce has issues and, Renzo had at least one foul.
The Manhoef vs. Crosley Gracie only proved that Croisley didn't belong in an MMA ring.
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 years ago
It is a style in it's own right. Judo doesn't have submission only rules and, they often stand their players up if they aren't making quick progress. They also never spent much time fighting against other arts, which the Gracies and, other BJJ fighters did.
If you cannot see the legacy that the Gracies wrought, your willfully blind.
When MMA announcers talk about Jiu-Jitsu skill of fighter like BJ Penn, Damien Maia and, Frank Mir, among hundreds of others) they aren't misleading anyone.
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 years ago
Under your standards, Judo was a "rip-off" of Fusen Ryu and, that was probably a rip-off of earlier forms of JuJitsu.
There is a saying that we all stand on the shoulders of giants. The giants are those who came before us. Everything we do is based on what those people did. If everything had to be like inventing the wheel, we would be no where.
In addition, the Gracies don't have McDojos, unless you mean the Academy run by Rorian.
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 years ago
There is a whole other side of the family, Carlos Gracieand, other of Helio's sons, such as Rickson, Royler. Plus thousands of others who have proven the effectiveness of BJJ.
What they do is the exact opposite of "a not very good on e at that." They have fantastic skills and, their success in submission grappling, MMA, etc., have proven that.
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 years ago
Finally, Kimura was a professional wrestler, a con man, in other words who portrayed a Japanese super hero who defeated "giant" Americans to believing Japanese fans who wanted to feel better about themselves after a humiliating defeat in WWII. Pro wrestling was also heavily influenced by the Japanese Yakuza.
If Kimura's level of honor and, integrity were so angelic, he wouldn't have pretended to beat other wrestlers and, would have stayed completly away from pro wrestling.
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 years ago
Wasn't that nice of Kimura? Everyone can have their own opinions. Their opinion is more valid than mine. We'll never know the real truth, though. No matter what, Helio's legacy is as one of the founders of BJJ and, that legacy is sound.
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 years ago
I read several articles on Judoinfo com and while Helio may have used hype, he wasn't made a fool of. For a guy that learned a variety of things from Maeda, he did quite well for himself.
BJJ is known world wide as one of the best grappling arts, while "Newaza" is just one small phase of modern Judo.
It only means ground tactics and, BJJ has done well.
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 years ago
Under the rules of the match, he had to submit him, or break something and, he did the later only after 13 minutes. The article never said that he thought he "toyed" with him. He dominated the match, but the 13 minutes it took him to beat Helio and, Helios earlier defeat of Kato proves that Helio wasn't a joke.
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 years ago
It took Kimura over 13 minutes to defeat Gracie, so it wasn't the "fool" making that you claim. He would have beaten him much quicker. Also, Gracie beat Kato who was a 5th degree black belt with a choke in 10 minutes. Hardly a fool!
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 years ago
Actually, Helio beat a top Judoka while in his early 40's and, did well against the best Judoka in the world. Chokes and, joint locks are quite dangerous. Submissions are for sport and, practice. In a real fight, they are put on fast and, have the desired effect.
A top Judoka, or BJJ fighter will likely win out over someone who has only practised the "deadly" techniques against unresisting opponents. The Tokyo police trials between JuJitsu and, Judo about 100 years ago is evidence.
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 years ago
Racism means that one believes that racial differences are genetic in nature and, cannot be overcome. Mr. Thornton does not believe that and, his comments were not based on anything inherent in Asian society, just that most traditional arts seem to be cult like in his view. The emphasis is on cult, not Asian.
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 years ago
In addition, he believes in muscle memory, reflexes, etc. It's just that after the dead drills, you have to practice in an alive manner in order to learn how to do it on a resisting opponent.
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 years ago
Matt T. recomends Judo and, Muay Thai as "alive" arts and, they both come from Asian nations!
In addition, he follows Helio because his art is alive and, has proven itself by fighting and, beating a variety of fighters from different styles, not people from the same style. Helio also never kept his art secret. Everything was out in the open.
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 years ago
Wow thanks for this vid. It's a parody yes but it still speaks the truth
tpbisdivine 2 years ago
matt has many valid points about martial arts
billysue2 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I saw the whole interview, this is my summary of his point:
-Me=strong,smart,effective, righteous and true(sacred cow?), non-asian, christian
-Others=weak, worthles,not-effective, evil and mean, asian cult, jew cult(krav-maga), nigger cult(capoirae), non-christian, religion converting TMA
pangyf25250 3 years ago
Christian... are u sure? He quotes krisnamurti heavilly and judging by his writings and THIS INTERVIEW he doesn't hold religion in too high regard. I also believe he has a tattoo of a Hindu deity on his back. If your referring to others to mean TMA's yeah I'd say your right. The fact is (as I've experience with 2 schools) TMA's are unfortunately prone to be quasi-cults and mix good techniques with quite frankly garbage...
LuqmanNaq 2 years ago
TheRealBullDen: you are an idiot
JackiePaquito 3 years ago 3
Seriously, if you don't know how your body and mind reacts to adrenaline, how can anyone believe that they are prepared for a street fight?
KJAngstrom 3 years ago 7
This has been flagged as spam show
"most of the times, yes, but if you don't train with aliveness then the majority of traditional martial artists do not have what i think you need in a fight: timing, atletisiscm, functional attacks and defences"
R u diverting every1 attention that u dun hav something like this (watch?v=6iDlzL7zrNU) which r not "ALIVENESS"
pangyf25250 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
R u a desparate BJJ/UFC/MMA promoter?
-If i cannot go to mount everest, no 1 can
-Will ask: how u suppose to get on top of mount everest with the unhabitable extreme eviroment?
-TMA=Evil-asian-cult
-Strikers r only want to use strikes when got pinned down
-Deny real street fight is something like:(watch?v=6iDlzL7zrNU) instead of something llike this : (watch?v=-oxns_en1xs)
-Pretending to be TMA old-wise-man with unquestionable word-of-wisdom
pangyf25250 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
R u a desparate BJJ/UFC/MMA promoter?
-If i cannot go to mount everest, no 1 can
-Will ask: how u suppose to get on top of mount everest with the unhabitable extreme eviroment?
-TMA=Evil-asian-cult
-Strikers r only want to use strikes when got pinned down
-Deny real street fight is something like:(watch?v=6iDlzL7zrNU) instead of something llike this : (watch?v=-oxns_en1xs)
pangyf25250 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Question to all followers of NEW MA:
R those aggressive, 100% resisting, adrenaline fueled opponent gonna be like faster then the ninja in a japanese anime?
R those aggressive, 100% resisting, adrenaline fueled opponent is stronger then superman, or hulk combined?
Is it traditional MA not gonna be aggressive, 100% resisting, adrenaline fueled opponent ?
Is it only learning wrestling will get u as aggressive, 100% resisting, adrenaline fueled opponent?
word-of-wisdom?
lol
pangyf25250 3 years ago
question to al followers of traditional MA:
how are you gonna hit your aggressive, 100% resisting, adrenaline fueled opponent in the eye or the throat with your fingers, when you can't even hit them in the face with a 14oz boxing glove? just wondering...
kimakemoen 3 years ago
My plan was to gouge his eyes while he's clinching me, or I am clinching him. Since when were traditionalist unable to strike with accuracy?
kirokyukan 3 years ago
i believe that most traditional MA, can't hit with accuracy in "real" situations becouse THEY DONT SPAR! they train dead patterns wich have no bace in reality anymore. and kiro, you are aware of the fact that he is gonna be able to gouge you to, and would you clinch with someone that has a knife? i know i wouldn't.
kimakemoen 3 years ago
Its obvious that they have the same options as me. You asked how I would gouge him, and I gave you a very simple reality based answer. Then you say what about a knife? The likelyhood of a sport MA guy to gouge is less then TMA since most guys will stick with what they know. As for the knife, both are as likely to be able to defend the attck since neither is properly prepared, although the TMA has more options since they do practice weapons disarmament.
kirokyukan 3 years ago
The possibility of my opponent using the same techniques as me has got to be the stupidest argument I've yet to come across, right up there with peoples unwillingness to assimilate a technique that has a counter.
kirokyukan 3 years ago