This is Bullshit. I can't believe how many of you musical tools out there are listening through paper cups. You all think 'Oh Erykah doens't know shit'. And Krall is sooo well schooled.. Lower your eyes and listen for a second. You might see how prejudiced your hearing is. Filtered through your perception of what you think you know about music and of these artists in particular, you rob your self of a pleasant listening expereicence, and all you hear is the crap rolling around your own head!!!!
@kappakoool RIF... btw if you are into the "fine as hell" quotient for buying music I suggest purchasing some Justin Beiber music as well (he's a good drummer too). LOL! Try not to get your panties in a bunch! Lastly, how come you discuss and have a solid knowledge regarding illicit drugs, huh?! MUSIC is beautiful and MUSIC is SUBJECTIVE... concentrate!
@markmarktarmann Ahh!!!! Finally a concise, INTELLIGENT reply that analyzes instead of making stupid remarks! Thank you for your comments, markmarktarmann... I'll try to give her another listen again when she gigs in NYC! FWIW if someone gave me her CD I ain't gonna use it as a coaster but I am just big fan of Diane Schuur!
@ kappakoool Hey, that is MY opinion and I don't do drugs... I'm a runner! Anyway, I just happen to think Diana Krall is overrated and LOVE Diane Shuur! Diana Krall sounds kinda contrived like she is trying to sound what a jazz singer is supposed to sound like while IMO Ms Shuur sounds natural (also her improvising is nasty in a good way)! Again that is MY opinion! I believe that Diane Schuur would have kicked a mudhole in this performance...
Wow, terrific; great idea to have 2 female vocalists on the date. George Benson just tearing the strings apart and of course wonderful piano playing. Great rendition of this classic. Thank you for posting.
My god, this is some kind of a "holo-deck" on the Enterprise? Wonderful, can't belive it, three of my MASTERS, at the same time on ONE STAGE. Uuhhh... ;-)
well at first( like everybody I guess) I said what is Erika Badu doing on stage with these straight jazz virtuosos will she be up to the challenge?but She definately did! I never liked Diana krall singing tho..she's a piano master...and blond,no wonder all the press treat her like a legend.To me she's not up there in hisotry with the jazz legends sounds just ok,there are better jazz singers in casinos and cruis
@bconsitt I'm of the opinion that those are roles for mezzos that can extend significantly, like Maria. We say they are assoluta roles, but they do mostly sit in a particular fach. She could still produce high notes, but you can't deny they had lost the trumpet-like quality after her weight loss. Significant weight loss does play a role in your musculoskeletal system, and later videos of Maria singing does show her breathing through the chest, which puts a strain and pushes up your larynx.
@Laeliapurpurata Do you listen to soul music at all or is it just opera and ocassionally jazz? If you do, i wonder whose artistry would you value more than that of the "Queen of Soul" :) IMHO Anita Baker sings nice and she doesn't belt too much :)
@MrJudube I listen and appreciate any music that is live. The skill and mastery I find among jazz musicians is what impresses me the most, and also why my initial issue regarding Erykah's inclusion came up. I'll give one I love most is Gladys, and one I hate most is Patti.
@bconsitt I profess no great knowledge of Aretha, as previously stated, so you can tell me whatever you'd like about her. But there are those who'd argue the weight loss was to blame for Callas's vocal decline. Those E-flats had lost their trumpet-like quality, and one does see evidence of chest breathing. But I cannot fault Callas, because those E-flats are always well placed to achieve maximum dramatic effect, I'll always remember end of Aida's march... or that huge E at end of Armida.
I have been in love with Diana Krall since I heard her Live cd in Paris. This makes it better singing with Erykah Badu and having George Benson playing, damn this is great music.
DottoJojoWonderful singers such as, Sarah Vaugn, Ella Fitzgerald, Billy Holiday, Frank Sinatra, and Ann Burton could sing this song, all delivering it in their own unique way, without sacraficing the intent of the song. Each one of these singers sung the very same song, including Judy Garland, and each version was beatifully different, and I felt the point of the song each time. Personalizing a song-scatting, melisma-is good, showing emotional involvement in a song, a big part of jazz music.
@mdoranda Those are all grand singers, who would deny that? Ad-libing / scatting, whatever, instrument or voice, improvisation, or we may even call it fioritura, is a territorry Badu will not visit anytime soon. To produce "organic" improv, one must have good knowledge of music theory... as others have pointed out, she just a song bird, quite incidental to the performance.
@Laeliapurpurata Oh my goodness, honey! You don't need to understand music theory in order to perform personalized vocal acrobatics, organic improv. THAT IS THE LAST THING YOU NEED HERE. Some people have a habit of trying to apply theory or a system or rules in order to learn how some people produce natural effects. These theories then become bibles! The very best vocal artists are the ones naturally gifted, the ones who's gifts people try to organize on paper for the non-gifted to understand.
@mdoranda I daresay that is a dangerous attitude to have. Loving music is great and all, but if it is to become your bread, you must preserve your tools! The purpose of theory is not to restrain "natural effects", it is to learn to control it. Mastering the fundamentals is a natural segue into the world of personal interpretation...
@Laeliapurpurata As I stated in a previous post to you, go and listen to church choirs, untampered with voices, listen to the solo singers there. MIND BLOWING! STUNNING! If they need to learn breathing techniques to sustain them through a professional show, that is not learning to sing at all, thats learning to support the natural solo voice existing, which is what many professional singers don't have in the first place. They are controlling something we wouldn't pay to hear by itself.
@Laeliapurpurata I kid you not, those choir voices are so beautiful and so full of natural emotion and interpretation, they will bring tears to your eyes. Most of these people (African American churches) have not gone to some school or professional to master the fundamentals and they give many choir concerts. Fundamentals are particularly good for non-solo voices that need all the help they can get. It helps fine tune or polish what they lack naturally, especially if bent on going professional.
@Laeliapurpurata Gifted vocal artists (which there are not many of) such as Aretha Franklin, can rely on her amazing voice and the song to charm the audience. Non-naturally gifted artists must utilize every aspect of everthing that can be done in a performance in order to minimize the fact that they don't have a great voice. They really have to PERFORM, act out, you know, get extremely creative in order to charm the audience. These people are saturated in books, theory, and "proper" training.
@mdoranda Your views are clearly heavily biaised in favour of the singer, I smell a neophyte diva wannabe or jejune diva worshipper. I would argue the contrary that singers who lack colour and interpretive skills resort to vocal acrobatics to impress the obtuse audience. I've seen Aretha perform, and she stops the last 30 seconds of all her songs to perform some vulgar form of modern cadenza... it's quite a farce. Nobody needs training to do that.
@Laeliapurpurata I'll tell you, you are one of the lonely ones in your opinion of Aretha. The few people who know me would let you know that I am very opposite a diva, very. You don't know me at all. I just happen to appreciate a great voice WITH a great delivery, I love it. You have it backwards, it is much easier to colour and interpret than to do vocal acrobats, belieeeevve me! Do you actually believe that? Most don't have to worry about trying to do what Aretha does, you can't if you tried.
@Laeliapurpurata I'm almost done, honey. Don't get me wrong, there are techniques for stage performance everyone should learn, such as maybe projection, stage positioning, appearance, etc. Exercising, constant use, yes, definately. Just go and listen to some church choirs, a sea of untouched, mind-blowing talent, I kid you not. In the words of Sarah Vaughan "I just sing. I don't know what I sound like or who I sound like. I don't know what kind of a singer I am. I just open my mouth and sing."
@mdoranda Again, a view skewed in favour of the singer... must learn to listen, must understand the words, must read music, must understand the intention of the composer, it is a constant dynamic back and forth between each member of your band, and when it's live, there is a triangular aspect to include the audience. Witness the amazing rapport between Benson and Krall, Badu's not even IN the picture...
@Laeliapurpurata Listening, understanding the words, understanding composer intention are a necessary addition to the voice if you want to give a good overall performance. I am speaking a la carte in focus of the voice. Some great voices are not great interpreters, some great interpreters don't have great voices. The Perfect Performer understands and interprets the intentions of the composer WITH a great voice: Judy Garland, Doris Day, Anita Baker, Diana Ross, Karen Carpenter, Stephanie Mills.
@mdoranda Singing, like any profession, is a craft that requires mastery. The greatest of diva of them all, La Callas, adopted this approach to her singing, and therefore she has become representative of the highest standard of singing. The vulgar singer, like Badu, usually has no knowledge of this precious tradition. Singers these days view themselves as a separate unit. The sample of singers you provide only betray the superficiality of your knowledge of singing.
@Laeliapurpurata I don't believe great singers come out of the womb blowing, no. Everything requires development over time, exercising, but you need to have something worthwile developing in the first place. Everyone has SOMETHING to develop and, with proper exercising, they can develop to meet their personal best, which may not be solo artitst great. I know you know this. Maria Callas is a wonderful soprano opera singer, whom I guarantee, had a gift to work with.
@Laeliapurpurata I myself have an operatic voice, mezzo-soprano, that I am still in the process of fine tuning, but it has always been there. I prefer singing in my speaking voice, I truly, truly enjoy it. The artists I've mentioned have beautiful voices, beautiful, not opera, but beautiful gifts nontheless. Judy, Anita, Diana, Doris, and Maria are blessed with voices. Many are not to their extent. Others possess only the ability to colour, interpret, provide emotion, with a descent voice.
@mdoranda Furthermore, vocal acrobatics can happen at any range, you can listen to prodigal compositions of Salieri in the mezzo range. Do we value these today? No, we do not, they are empty pieces who sole purpose is to showcase the singer. Like fast jazz piano fingering, the Salieri singer needs practice enough quick scales to impress. I can tell you for sure that Aretha cannot sing Salieri, she tried Nessun dorma, and that was a profanity.
@Laeliapurpurata Yes, I agree, vocal acrobatics can be performed at any range: soprano, mezzo, contralto, tenor, baritone, or bass. I've already stated to you my opinion of the perfect performer: understanding+interpretation+voice, not just voice. If you choose to ignore what I've stated, so be it. Everyone's voice fits into some category above, but not every soprano is great, not every contralto is great, not every baritone is great. Some have just enough to carry them professionally, thats it.
@mdoranda I'm also surprised you have not mentioned Madam Holiday, the woman with the most amazing vocal colour, who only needs a bassist to "perform". Every live performance is a precious event, because it is live, the artists are creating art before our very eyes. Jazz, by nature of its virtue, encourages live improvised performances by skillful musicians. It is awkward when someone is clearly out of the league, here it is Badu.
@Laeliapurpurata Billy Holiday has much colour, feeling, and attitude in her voice. She's a wonderful performer, but her voice alone is not great, unique, yes, but not great. She's a great jazz perfomer, though. She can touch masses with her feeling & sound, but her voice is not GREAT. There are many great perfomers that don't have gifted voices, but can still move a crowd honey. In turn, Gifted voices won't give great performances if they lack proper interpretation and mood, even opera singers.
@mdoranda I don't see why there needs to exist an "overall" performance and a "voice" performance. On the sheet, it's all a line, a "voice". Indeed, in jazz, the same vocal line can be replaced by another instrument, a clarinet, for example. I've heard enough natural vocal talent not to be bowled over by a bevy of choir singers. And your claim that voice is a natural phenomenon is just ridiculous.
@Laeliapurpurata Understanding of the song and proper interpretation in form of feeling, mood, and personal touch, all expressed within a beautifully gifted voice(of all ranges), can't be beat. O.k. voices usually are heightened in all other areas, they have to be. Like a blind person whos other senses are heightened; the blind person's other senses are heightened to make up for their lack of eye sight. The same with a good performer without a gifted solo artist voice, everything else magnifies.
@Laeliapurpurata You have alot to learn about natural gifts, I'm so serious. I'm not saying this to be mean or hurtful. It just seems you haven't a clue about that area. I'm not surprised wih anything your saying, it's expected and I'm getting tired and warn out trying to explain myself here. I expect your going to come back chewing me out, but I just don't care anymore. We just have to agree to disagree here.
@mdoranda Theory is derived from nature, because nature is perfect and human construction displays our quest to mirror the perfection in nature. Why do we use the term song bird? Because nature came first in form of a bird. There is no shame in participating in music theory that is the result hundreds of years of tradition and evolution. On the contrary, it is to the singer's benefit! Do not be scared of hard work and dedication. Choirs do scales too, I'm sure.
@Laeliapurpurata When is the last time you saw a singing bird in a training studio, huh? The song bird is all naturaaaaal baby. The other birds who can't sing like the song bird would need to theorize the song bird's natural ability so they can attempt a beautiful voice in that way, to try and understand what they lack naturally, disect it. Dont be stubborn, admit you may have to work hard when others dont. Don't be prideful. If a BIRD can be natural, why not humans? Goodbye, I'm done buddy.
@mdoranda We are much better than the bird, we started at some point with the bird, a bird can only sing one line over and over again, except the Nightingale. I'm not surprised by your attitude, which is characteristic of lazy young singers who don't want to apply theory or approach singing like a craft to master. It's an attitude problem.
@mdoranda Yes and lower animals are born able to swim, why can't we??? What a silly silly point of view. Art and singing are far too much of a hallowed art for some like yourself. Don't use solfege, it's not natural. Do not read any music either. Do you think art and music are here to for your exploitation? All that's left for you are Arabic song cycles, or perhaps Indian chanting.
@Laeliapurpurata Some of us just don't have to work as hard as others NEED to, mam. I don't know what else to say to you. I'm a case in point, I'm a living example of what I am talking about. I go through scales, breath support, I understand how to reach my higher and lower register properly, but this is all mainly support for what I already have. Most of the women in my family have been blessed with beautiful song bird voices and not one of them received professional training.
@mdoranda The vulgar audience is content with simply listening, for them it is a synthetic process, not analysis, usually. But the audience is the audience, and especially a vulgar audience, will behave this way. For them, music is a form of exploitation by which they derive pleasure. When I use the word vulgar, please understand it is to mean, "not classically trained", as in "vulgar latin".
@Laeliapurpurata Call it art, call it trash, give me a A, B, or an F! WHO CARES. I would tell any true soul expressor, put your heart into all that you do and don't worry about anyone else. I myself may be an audience member, but please don't worry about me, don't consider me, get into your own world and express yourself with all your heart, all your soul, all that you've got!. I'm just happy to watch quietly, if you don't mind. I won't disturb you. Dont try and impress me, DO YOU... as I peek.
@mdoranda Other musicians, because the instrument they place is a lifeless object outside their body, must practice to master this instrument. If a singer is to collaborate with such a group of musicians, and she is unable to communicate, what is the point? For singers, it is much more intuitive, the organ responds differently, but should be approached like any other instrument.
@mdoranda Mr. Bocelli, for example, is blind. He cannot read music. It is inconceivable for a blind singer to do opera. Many love him just for the timbre of his voice, but he is not a classically trained singer. It would be extremely difficult to produce a live opera with him, as he cannot see the conductor. On the other hand, Pavarotti did great in vulgarizing opera, although no mics should be used, and I haven't seen choirs sing with mics, the chest is our resonance box.
@Laeliapurpurata I understand and respect your feelings concerning the glorified singer. When a beautiful voice meets a beautiful song, the song supports the singer just as much as the singer gives life to the song. A voice needs a song, a song needs a voice. If I love a song, I want to hear it sung right and not by someone who just may want to showcase their gifted vocal abilities. I'd prefer someone with more moderate vocal ability giving proper emotional interpretation to a song I love.
@Laeliapurpurata I really like a song called, The Look Of Love, and while Diana Krall may not have a great voice in and of itself, to me, I still love her rendition of it. I have her version of it on my MP3; I enjoy listening to her perform it. Mary J. Blige does not have a great voice at all to me, but she can hold a not well and her performances burn with emotion and good interpretation. She moves me sometimes, she is real. I don't JUST want a great voice. I understand how you feel, I think.
@mdoranda Most here will not value Krall for her voice, rather she is an amazing pianist. Regardless, as others have pointed out, she displays her knowledge of the style: it's swingy, there's rubato, the phrasing is just so amazing. A Jazz trio is not the ideal platform for an amazing voice... Perhaps Badu was included because many consider her voice akin to Madam Holiday's... in any case, I value her in other genres.
@Laeliapurpurata In the case of Judy Gar, I must admit, I just looove her voice. I scour the internet looking for anything she sings because I love listening to that voice. It's just so beautiful to me. She also provides wonderful emotion and respects the intention of the song. There is NOTHING like a great voice that renders a song the way it should be rendered. When a gifted voice and a great song meet, and they respect one another, it is pure magic! So very rare, in my opinion.
@mdoranda Yes... the voice is the greatest instrument of all, nothing man-made or no feat of engineering can produce the suite of frequencies our voices produce. Fascination for the voice and diva worship is nothing new, it's been going on, and it still does. Singers get praise from the audience, but is that why you choose to sing? Or do you love to sing just for the sake of singing? Do you love singing because you love art?
@Laeliapurpurata Opera singers voices are magnificent! But I can't stand listening to alot of them, because alot of their performances are void of life, feeling, for me. Many of them are all voice. I'll tip my hat to L. Pavarotti and Andrea Bocelli; wonderful, just marvelous, the full packages. They can really move me. I enjoy many many songs, genres, voice types, I just love music. But, perfection for me will always be a hand-in-glove collaboration between a GREAT voice and a GREAT song. Rare.
@mdoranda Opera existed before... and I'm sure people have not changed how they feel emotions from back then. The opera singer is held at the highest standard of singing, it requires a good organ to begin with, constant training, knowledge of at least French, German and Italian, not only scales, but runs, turns, roulades, trilling... etc... and you perform live, in front of people like me, who will know if you screw up.
@mdoranda I'm not saying you have to listen to opera, that is my personal choice, among other music I listen to. I am also very advanced in my age, and I work with young adults. Do you know when we were 20, most of my generation were self-sufficient adults. I don't associate any kind of virtue to 20 year olds acting like they are 12, nor do I associate any virtue to profesionnal singers acting like a vulgar audience, nor do I associate any virtue to having Badu spit her way through this song.
@Laeliapurpurata I don't know German, I don't know French, I don't know Italian. When I listen to music, voices, I don't listen critically to hear if they are meeting all of the standard or advanced artistic requirements. I love music, I love people, I love life, I love sincerity, I love the human passion for whatever someone is involved in, for themselves. I'm a fan of expressonists, not necessarily impressionists...Ballet, opera singers, orchestra, so technical, generally speaking of course.
@mdoranda I enjoy art when it's a sincere and beautiful translation of the spirit of its creator. I dance as well as sing, and I do it all for ME. For hours in the privacy of my own home, I dance and sing, and cry sometimes because I am emotionally involved in what I do. I'm at peace then and I use my body and voice to express myself, for myself. The best of my expressions come out then. I could care less whether an audience, art critics, or you enjoy it or not. Grade me, who cares. Its for ME.
I have spent considerable time going through this conversation. Laeli is either a troll, or someone we should sympathize with. Unfortunately I conclude the latter.
Music to me elicits an immediate emotional response. Many times my current mood will dictate whether or not I enjoy a piece of music. If later I am in a different mood and reevaluate a song, so be it. This is much different than picking a piece apart.
Thank you for sharing, despite your intended audience.
@JimLongo1 Thank you so much for your comment. I'm so embarassed for getting into this looong, heated debate with Laeli, so looong. I should have ended it a while ago, but got too emotionally involved, you know. I'm the same way; my mood will decide my song choice at that time, very much so.
@mdoranda You're not opera singer... so why would anyone expect opera from you. This is jazz... and we expect jazz.... The audience listening analytically does not affect the performance in any way... however, most musicians must know how to? Madam Vaughan's claim that she has no idea how she sounds, is a rather ridiculous statement, and I wonder if it's taken out of context. Certainly if singing is your selfish conduit that I spoke of, then you surely know how you sound.
@Laeliapurpurata I do have an operatic voice, I do sing it. I've told you that before, whether or not you think I am a liar is of no concern to me, it doesn't take it away. However, I sense something else wrong with you, something very deep. I sense anger, hatred, disgust, a very dark spirit from you. I won't aide your display of this darkness. You don't seem to like PEOPLE, their beautiful unique soulful expressions, or..art, the heart of it. You need serious help, and I hope you find healing.
@mdoranda You can be Queen of the world if you so choose, in your relativist world. What you believe is true is true, after all. You sound like the overweight people who can't control their weight... we say, please eat less and excercise more. That is not unnatural submission... only a human would choose to be overweight. You have a well constructed defense mechanism, and I do not wish to disturb the "shadows in your cave".
@mdoranda So you have an Operatic voice - what does that mean?!? Are you an Opera singer, Jazz vocalist, Dancer or what?!? Sounds like a bunch of ambiguous drivel, if you ask me. Reminds me of the Hip Hop producer who claimed to be a "former" Jazz guitarist - pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeze, either you are, or you aren't. BTW, resorting to ad hominems as a vehicle to elude the issue at hand, is only effective if done tactfully, and with jocosity. Just a suggestion for future posts...*wink*
@TheTranslator100 I thank you very much for taking the time to comment. However, I've said all that I can sincerely say on within this heated conversation, and am now just worn out, empty, there's nothing more. I am sorry that I can't give you anything more. I just hope that we will all keep on loving music in whatever beautiful expresssion it comes in. Thank you much, and have a good evening.
@Laeliapurpurata You are so trained. Soaked through and through; trained ear, trained opinion, trained pleasures. You're like a computer that has been fully downloaded with precisely what art is, looks like, smells like, tastes like, all neat and clean, no mess! Do you like red blooded human beings? Do you like or even respect nature, the soul and it's sincere, beautiful expressions? Do you like people? Do you like art that expresses the soul, the beauty of its creator?
@mdoranda I certainly respect nature, I worship it. It's perfect after all. And what separates us from the lower animal is our realisation, at a very young age, that we are imperfect as humans. As a result, we are also the only animal that displays denial of the fact. Instead, some dedicate to improving themselves. You may view it as unnatural submission, but this is the philosophy in which I am soaked. It is what I teach.
@Laeliapurpurata Hun, (if you're not female, please excuse me lol) after perusing the bulk of this debate, the only thing I can deduce is a bunch of feckless philosophical blathering, if you ask me,. As to Opera singing; I concur, it requires vast training to master, but unlike monstrous Classical symphonies, some of that Opera s**t sounds friggin coooooooooooooooooooorny lol
@TheTranslator100 All that woman is saying is that Badu was born with a prettier voice... and what has transpired is her trying to justify her original claim, and now she's wrapped herself around the relativist's cloak -- how convenient.
@Laeliapurpurata Well, I'm not taking sides here, as each of you have presented your arguments very articulately, unlike many exchanges that have consisted of choice adjectives, bad grammar and syntax, or what I refer to as >>> Ghetto vernacular. As to MY opinion of the 3 "singers" in question: George is a "true" Jazz artist. Erykah Badu is an avant garde "R&B" vocalist (Mariah Carey's style is much more appealing), and Diana Krall is just a GORGEOUS Blond lol. Thanks for the commentary...
@TheTranslator100 I was just referring to opera where the best singers belong. I once thought opera sounded terrible. But if the artist is the consummate singer, they may consider opera. Price, Verrett, Norman were all afroamerican women, all started in church choirs, who chose to be opera singers, and they found great success in Europe, where skin colour does not matter in creating art. And those women are profesionnals, which mdoranda is not.
@Laeliapurpurata The best in art is always produced under the conditions of expressing oneself without the consideration of judgemental spectators, or non-judgemental ones. Sure, it would be nice if they enjoyed you, but let it be YOU, ALWAYS! Most ballet dancers can't do this since they must conform to a mountain load of un-natural techniques. There is amazing and epic techniques within, but often so void of life and soul expression. Natural beings beat into un-natural submissions.
@Laeliapurpurata Anyway, I'm not a big fan of impressionists. I siiiiing, I daaance, I express, for me. It's people like you with your fat book of methods, techniques, critiques, and HOW DARE YOU, THIS IS ART! attitude, that can really inhibit and harm sensitive soul expressors. Art follows them, art means them and like their talent or not, side-watchers should just keep quiet, have respect, watch, and be happy to witness. If you love art as you say, love the ARTIST and not the institution.
@mdoranda How dare I? How dare you, is more like it. That particular view on art is entirely relativist and a selfish conduit for self-actualisation. It doesn't really have anything to do with creating a lasting work for art, to celebrate human constructions, which again, as I said before, reflects the perfection we see in nature and our constant strive to attain perfection.
@mdoranda I agree. Notwithstanding the technical prowess required to perform it, the vast majority of Opera singers sound lame at best. Of course, this is just my opinion. And since you mentioned their performances as being "void of life," sorry, but Celine Dion made Andrea Bocell sound like a boring 80 yr old when he featured on one of her CD's. He was doing fine, until Celine started to do the R&B ad-lib thing. She tried to up-stage Aretha Franklin in the same manner on a televised event...
@TheTranslator100 I didn't know Celine and Andrea collaborated. I'm honestly not surprised to hear your opinion, however; Celine's voice is extreeeeeemly flexible, she glides through notes with ease and is just remarkable in her personalization. Are you a fan of her? Are you an artist yourself, of any form? You know, I can almost see an opera singer halting in the middle of a song, mouth wide open, singing along a big voiced, master ad-libber in the midst of his/her run. Will listen to song.
@mdoranda Yes, I'm a guitarist. Although I've primarily performed R&B and some Rock in the past, my main goal is Jazz and Fusion, which are 2 entirely different genres (It's now wonder why I'm partial to Benson - duh). I've also attempted Classical and Flamenco in the past, but with limited success. As to R&B/Pop, I'm a fan of ANY female vocalist with the BIG voice, such as MARIIAH, CELINE, WHITNEY, CHAKA, et.al. I can't remember the name of the duet, so I guess you'll have to youtube it.
DottoJojo, Erykah is not a GREAT singer either, but she clearly has the more colorful, rangeful voice out of the two here. Maybe Diana could have stretched her vocal muscles more if she weren't multi-tasking, I don't know, whatever the reason, the result is an o.k. vocal performance. There are many ways this song could have been performed with justice. A song may not have just one vocal mate; depending on a performers ability, timbre & range, a song can have some versatility without sacrafice.
@mdoranda Yes you're born with the organ, how the artist develops it is entirely up to them. The vocal aspect of the entire performance is incidental, I'm sure you would have noticed if you claim to have listened to different versions of this. In short, there is nothing characteristic of Badu's performance, nor is her interpretation in line with the other two. Most artists worship and respect the tradition of jazz too much to butcher a song like this.
@Laeliapurpurata Yes we are born with the organ and how we develop WHAT WE HAVE is entirely up to them. We can develop our voices to meet our personal best and in and of itself, it can be beautiful. However, we still may not have the range, power, and quality of others. I believe everyone has a voice and the nature of it's beauty is unique for everyone; some are just more powerful, some have more range, some are meant to be soft and gentle, you know. Both artist's voices serve well here.
@mdoranda Voices, like any instrument, come in different shapes and sizes, and to each there exists an appropriate composition. Take something as simple as Bye Bye Blackbird, the artist does not require a large range and it's a simple line to sing. The value lies in the interpretation and the ability to colour the voice, no English required to get it. For shrieks a la Aretha, then go listen to her, but she's not really jazz.
@Laeliapurpurata Voices do come in all shapes and sizes, but most should not be solo artists. Too many people decide that because they want to SING, they are going to become solo artists even when they are not. They color it up, act, and adorn their performance with all types of adornments to cover up the fact that they don't have a real solo voice. They can't sing stripped, like Aretha can! So, they pay, train hard, apply theory, learn performance and go. It works, the industry is full of them.
@Laeliapurpurata I'll tell ya, I'll pay to see someone adorn themselves well and give their all to provide a good performance, why not, it's entertaining. Would I pay to see some of these singers stripped of adornments, acapella, NOOO! They better PERFORM and support their lack of solo artist voice they way it should be supported if they want to keep a career. Patti Labelle, Judy Garland don't need adornments, they can go either way. Judy has "done it up," but I'm always mesmerized by that voice
@Laeliapurpurata You're a precious find to me since all self-important youtubers with education in music that i've met so far praise Aretha for her voice and skill. For example @Chimier who has compiled many videos says her high belts or 'shrieks' as you call them :) are perfectly resonant and supported. He, along with bconsitt (an opera lover) calls aretha a perfect musician and interpreter with unmached rhytm, melisma and so on. i'd like to read Your opinions confronted with theirs
@MrJudube Hi, I haven't praised Aretha... I don't really know Aretha. But look at the lady, she's quite expansive. These singers usually just need to exhale and the pressure from within does the pushing to produce a well-supported sound, listen and compare Deborah Voigt's before and after weight loss. As for resonance of the voice, that should be heard live and unamplified, which I have not. But what I have heard from her is a pattern of formulaic cadenza/fioritura at then end of her airs.
@MrJudube The rest is a matter of opinion. What I have witnessed in her singing always reminds me of the worst of coloratura/a piacere singing. Give some freedom to the singer, and the diva goes overboard, often because she is goaded by audience. Some like it, but the interpretation falls into the vulgar for me if voice doesn't add to the drama, if not placed without consideration the climactic structure of the piece, but rather uncovered selfish belts with no value expect to show off...
@Laeliapurpurata he heh these guys give Aretha as an example of not exhibiting exactly the faults You've listed when criticising other singers. I guess cadenza or floritura require quite a lof of skills like the pitch, rhytm, keeping onself within chord progressions while improvising and so on. They say aretha always belts with a musical purpose and never strains. I'll ask @bconsitt his commentary if You don't mind
@Chimier Because A) Youtube comments are public B) there are thousands of Yours to stumble upon and i have good memory. No, two or three times doesn't equal "ALWAYS". Consider writing thoughts on a sheet of paper instead of Internet if You don't wan't people to address them. BTW it's so lame go ad personam.
@MrJudube Two to three times? LOL I cannot. Everytime I come cross you now, it's because you keep talking about me. I don't care whether comments are public, there is no reason why you need to keep bringing up my name. THAT'S lame.
@Chimier "everytime"? the last time I cited you was about half year ago. The last time I talked to You was a few months ago. Don't act like a harassed person lol. Is there anything interesting you've got to state in the actual topic?
@MrJudube Half a year ago? Funny...I came across a video one month ago where you called sentfromupabove "Chimier's wannabe"....
No one said anything about harassed. #FAIL
Thing is, you "cite" me more than I would like. There is NO reason for you to bring up my name whatsoever, period. It's annoying, borderline disturbing.
@Chimier AFAIR I called sentfromupabove a wannabe because he was mimicking somebody else's style of disregarding people ("next", "fail", "sit down" and so on).
"There is NO reason for you to bring up my name whatsoever"
You can't post tens of thousands comments on Youtube in a specific area of interest and expect people not to address them. What's disturbing is how much energy you put into this personal OFFTOPIC.
@MrJudube Still no need for you to bring up my name. You could have easily said "some people on youtube say that Aretha's belts are...."
I love how you try and turn everything I say to you on me. I can put as much energy as I like into a topic, whether it's on-topic or not, as long as my name is brought up into it.
Keep my name out your posts. I was in no way relevant to the conversation you were having when you brought it up in the first place.
@Chimier I mentioned @bconsitt's name as well. I don't know if it was disturbing for him (lol) but he kindly accepted my invitation to discuss with @Lealiapurpurata (thank You @bconsitt). The idea was to confront two opposite views on Aretha franklin from people whose opinions I thought might be reasoned.
This was a delightful experience.
I'd be gushing if I said more.
toetapper04 1 day ago
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LowRobinSongs 2 weeks ago
When pure music is at it's best... it's very best.
Lillyvon 2 weeks ago
I can't find anything in this not to love. I mean - are you kidding....? Great upload......great talent.........everyone involved.
guymerritt 2 weeks ago
This is Bullshit. I can't believe how many of you musical tools out there are listening through paper cups. You all think 'Oh Erykah doens't know shit'. And Krall is sooo well schooled.. Lower your eyes and listen for a second. You might see how prejudiced your hearing is. Filtered through your perception of what you think you know about music and of these artists in particular, you rob your self of a pleasant listening expereicence, and all you hear is the crap rolling around your own head!!!!
ewe2oobes 3 weeks ago
I love the three of them
nellie2581 3 weeks ago
they should do an album together
crazygirlfun1 1 month ago
@ dawn20 Rent Diana Krall Live in Paris.
djrinpoche 1 month ago
i am a troll and i am powerless over my internet commenting habit.....one day at a time...etc.
markmarktarmann 1 month ago
I love how Diana can play the guitar!
rocuroniumbromid 1 month ago
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markmarktarmann 1 month ago
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markmarktarmann 1 month ago
love you....macinhofederechon
macinhofederechon 1 month ago
wow, they really whipped through that one!
ppp100shanti 1 month ago
@ppp100shanti Yeah, I guess Diana had to pay her dues to white guilt playing black music and get them on stage and off in under 2 mins.
I didn't know this was on the Live in Paris album - I've demoed hifi with the first track for years!
3Deity 1 month ago
@3Deity White people have paying there dues to white guilt since the Blackamoors introduced the lute to Europe.
oliverlaw02 3 weeks ago
@oliverlaw02 LOL - You're probably right! Odd, I thought you put 'Blackmore' - hes been playing his dues to the pixie kingdom for too long!
3Deity 3 weeks ago
excuse me miss.... you have something on your head...
lol j/k
musicNdrums 1 month ago
YEAH!
5339ecci 1 month ago
1:30 I love Benson!
pehuenblues 1 month ago
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pehuenblues 1 month ago
Good to find this...a most unlikely line up. :-)
ImaniHekima 1 month ago
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ddjjdavis 1 month ago
interesting trio but it makes good music though Krall should avoid singing next to any other decent singer
neilsdunn 2 months ago
how did she fit her hair so perfectly in that thing?
mdfoster3210 2 months ago
which one is Erykah Badu?..... just kidding.... I know she's the piano player.
millerbuc2 2 months ago 18
@millerbuc2 You're kidding?
Pan3405 2 days ago
sucks
pelonelcojedor 2 months ago
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markmarktarmann 2 months ago
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markmarktarmann 2 months ago
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markmarktarmann 2 months ago
@kappakoool RIF... btw if you are into the "fine as hell" quotient for buying music I suggest purchasing some Justin Beiber music as well (he's a good drummer too). LOL! Try not to get your panties in a bunch! Lastly, how come you discuss and have a solid knowledge regarding illicit drugs, huh?! MUSIC is beautiful and MUSIC is SUBJECTIVE... concentrate!
dawn220 2 months ago
@markmarktarmann Ahh!!!! Finally a concise, INTELLIGENT reply that analyzes instead of making stupid remarks! Thank you for your comments, markmarktarmann... I'll try to give her another listen again when she gigs in NYC! FWIW if someone gave me her CD I ain't gonna use it as a coaster but I am just big fan of Diane Schuur!
dawn220 2 months ago
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markmarktarmann 2 months ago
yeah The Best Trio!
TheMrMT66 2 months ago
Best TRIO EVER !!
LebLectic 3 months ago
@kappakoool~Read MY opinion...
dawn220 3 months ago
@ kappakoool Hey, that is MY opinion and I don't do drugs... I'm a runner! Anyway, I just happen to think Diana Krall is overrated and LOVE Diane Shuur! Diana Krall sounds kinda contrived like she is trying to sound what a jazz singer is supposed to sound like while IMO Ms Shuur sounds natural (also her improvising is nasty in a good way)! Again that is MY opinion! I believe that Diane Schuur would have kicked a mudhole in this performance...
dawn220 3 months ago
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dawn220 3 months ago
the 3 of us heyyyyyyyyy
TheGuille5959 3 months ago
The three legends - love it.
pforpappu 4 months ago
Awesome Thank you :)
Sunlightphil 4 months ago
Oh wow! This was simply....Great!
blukper 4 months ago
wow my favories singers in this video is fantastic!! nice to know you and congratulation!
pola:)
polaquitaful 4 months ago
2 out of 3 ain't bad...
NordicSynth 5 months ago
they should have just let erykah do it.
charleslindsaymusic 5 months ago 3
Wow, terrific; great idea to have 2 female vocalists on the date. George Benson just tearing the strings apart and of course wonderful piano playing. Great rendition of this classic. Thank you for posting.
jazzbeau507 5 months ago
Miguel, I pity those people who just can't help displaying their ignorance.
TheOldjazzlover 6 months ago
My god, this is some kind of a "holo-deck" on the Enterprise? Wonderful, can't belive it, three of my MASTERS, at the same time on ONE STAGE. Uuhhh... ;-)
MaxRothGroup 6 months ago
well at first( like everybody I guess) I said what is Erika Badu doing on stage with these straight jazz virtuosos will she be up to the challenge?but She definately did! I never liked Diana krall singing tho..she's a piano master...and blond,no wonder all the press treat her like a legend.To me she's not up there in hisotry with the jazz legends sounds just ok,there are better jazz singers in casinos and cruis
fede4real 6 months ago
What concert was this from? I would love to try to find it on DVD
JazzyZenBrotha 6 months ago
ya both a bunch of retards for arguing on youtube lol
jessejdubb 6 months ago
I heard that Diana wasn't so thrilled about having erika singing along, LOL. I can see why!
miguelsilsa 7 months ago
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Fjord76 6 months ago
that was cool....no blah diddy blah blah, just cool !!!
jzjoynt 8 months ago
wow!!!!!!
superb!!! the most anticiapted trio!!
rocktron 9 months ago
@bconsitt I'm of the opinion that those are roles for mezzos that can extend significantly, like Maria. We say they are assoluta roles, but they do mostly sit in a particular fach. She could still produce high notes, but you can't deny they had lost the trumpet-like quality after her weight loss. Significant weight loss does play a role in your musculoskeletal system, and later videos of Maria singing does show her breathing through the chest, which puts a strain and pushes up your larynx.
Laeliapurpurata 9 months ago
@bconsitt I'm also reminded of Aretha once singing nessun dorma on TV. That's... just... no....
Laeliapurpurata 9 months ago
@Laeliapurpurata Do you listen to soul music at all or is it just opera and ocassionally jazz? If you do, i wonder whose artistry would you value more than that of the "Queen of Soul" :) IMHO Anita Baker sings nice and she doesn't belt too much :)
MrJudube 9 months ago
@MrJudube I listen and appreciate any music that is live. The skill and mastery I find among jazz musicians is what impresses me the most, and also why my initial issue regarding Erykah's inclusion came up. I'll give one I love most is Gladys, and one I hate most is Patti.
Laeliapurpurata 9 months ago
@bconsitt I profess no great knowledge of Aretha, as previously stated, so you can tell me whatever you'd like about her. But there are those who'd argue the weight loss was to blame for Callas's vocal decline. Those E-flats had lost their trumpet-like quality, and one does see evidence of chest breathing. But I cannot fault Callas, because those E-flats are always well placed to achieve maximum dramatic effect, I'll always remember end of Aida's march... or that huge E at end of Armida.
Laeliapurpurata 9 months ago
Badu, Badu, Badu, I Love you.
AmirBakari 9 months ago
I have been in love with Diana Krall since I heard her Live cd in Paris. This makes it better singing with Erykah Badu and having George Benson playing, damn this is great music.
temptingtootsies 10 months ago
Very cool! =)
deeway1963 10 months ago
INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
how about those 3 talents put together!!!
too bad george didnt sing.
wouldve been even sweeter..
jutopri 10 months ago 2
the walking bass of Diana is wonderful
lupash 10 months ago
fucking monsters....
euahueahuehaeu
wonderfull...
CassianoWeissheimer 10 months ago
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Diana not as good as the other two.
narancor 10 months ago
Must be a Packers fan!!
etna9726b 10 months ago
What a great combination! Sounds triffic! George is a class act! : )
BuddLightbrain 11 months ago
awesome!
eirodgers 11 months ago
That was great, what was the venue? Are there more cuts like that?
1955gasman 11 months ago
Breathtaking!
magdaleiros 11 months ago
This is amazing...artists like this should collaborate like this all time!!!!!!
soulsista404 11 months ago
Great !
PresiyanaFunk 1 year ago
Let George sing!!!! He'll give em all a lesson
bigkozlov 1 year ago
Diana, if you're not so busy in this period, come down here: I would like to share a supper with you and make your husband HORNED!!!
I live in Roma - Italia, or if you prefer: Rome - Italy, ciao bella!
accuruneide 1 year ago
@accuruneide hahahaha, thats awesome.
TLPnega 1 year ago
@TLPnega hehehe, excuse me, but is it right to say: I wanna make your husband horned??? here in italy we use it very hard jajajajaa :-)
accuruneide 1 year ago
What's Diana doing with these hacks!
007AuFinger 1 year ago
@007AuFinger What do you mean by hacks?
MrDpendleton04 1 year ago
@007AuFinger Um, George Benson..."hack"??? Gather yourself.
Composer19691 1 year ago
Nice to see all those years of chopping wood in vegas havn't dulled George's razor sharp edge :D
Tobey2k4 1 year ago
Well that is just lovely! Talent all around
tmmgrl2500 1 year ago
Which one is the Square Peg that doesn't fit?
grantgre 1 year ago
@grantgre you.
ewe2oobes 3 weeks ago
wut the hell is erykah holdin
fatalbert51888 1 year ago
@fatalbert51888
I think it's a Tribble! (ok, old Star Trek joke but I couldn't help myself).
JimLongo1 1 year ago
@JimLongo1 o u jokester!! u shudda known u wud do that lol
fatalbert51888 1 year ago
DottoJojoWonderful singers such as, Sarah Vaugn, Ella Fitzgerald, Billy Holiday, Frank Sinatra, and Ann Burton could sing this song, all delivering it in their own unique way, without sacraficing the intent of the song. Each one of these singers sung the very same song, including Judy Garland, and each version was beatifully different, and I felt the point of the song each time. Personalizing a song-scatting, melisma-is good, showing emotional involvement in a song, a big part of jazz music.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda Those are all grand singers, who would deny that? Ad-libing / scatting, whatever, instrument or voice, improvisation, or we may even call it fioritura, is a territorry Badu will not visit anytime soon. To produce "organic" improv, one must have good knowledge of music theory... as others have pointed out, she just a song bird, quite incidental to the performance.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata Oh my goodness, honey! You don't need to understand music theory in order to perform personalized vocal acrobatics, organic improv. THAT IS THE LAST THING YOU NEED HERE. Some people have a habit of trying to apply theory or a system or rules in order to learn how some people produce natural effects. These theories then become bibles! The very best vocal artists are the ones naturally gifted, the ones who's gifts people try to organize on paper for the non-gifted to understand.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda I daresay that is a dangerous attitude to have. Loving music is great and all, but if it is to become your bread, you must preserve your tools! The purpose of theory is not to restrain "natural effects", it is to learn to control it. Mastering the fundamentals is a natural segue into the world of personal interpretation...
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata As I stated in a previous post to you, go and listen to church choirs, untampered with voices, listen to the solo singers there. MIND BLOWING! STUNNING! If they need to learn breathing techniques to sustain them through a professional show, that is not learning to sing at all, thats learning to support the natural solo voice existing, which is what many professional singers don't have in the first place. They are controlling something we wouldn't pay to hear by itself.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata I kid you not, those choir voices are so beautiful and so full of natural emotion and interpretation, they will bring tears to your eyes. Most of these people (African American churches) have not gone to some school or professional to master the fundamentals and they give many choir concerts. Fundamentals are particularly good for non-solo voices that need all the help they can get. It helps fine tune or polish what they lack naturally, especially if bent on going professional.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata Gifted vocal artists (which there are not many of) such as Aretha Franklin, can rely on her amazing voice and the song to charm the audience. Non-naturally gifted artists must utilize every aspect of everthing that can be done in a performance in order to minimize the fact that they don't have a great voice. They really have to PERFORM, act out, you know, get extremely creative in order to charm the audience. These people are saturated in books, theory, and "proper" training.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda Your views are clearly heavily biaised in favour of the singer, I smell a neophyte diva wannabe or jejune diva worshipper. I would argue the contrary that singers who lack colour and interpretive skills resort to vocal acrobatics to impress the obtuse audience. I've seen Aretha perform, and she stops the last 30 seconds of all her songs to perform some vulgar form of modern cadenza... it's quite a farce. Nobody needs training to do that.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata I'll tell you, you are one of the lonely ones in your opinion of Aretha. The few people who know me would let you know that I am very opposite a diva, very. You don't know me at all. I just happen to appreciate a great voice WITH a great delivery, I love it. You have it backwards, it is much easier to colour and interpret than to do vocal acrobats, belieeeevve me! Do you actually believe that? Most don't have to worry about trying to do what Aretha does, you can't if you tried.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata I'm almost done, honey. Don't get me wrong, there are techniques for stage performance everyone should learn, such as maybe projection, stage positioning, appearance, etc. Exercising, constant use, yes, definately. Just go and listen to some church choirs, a sea of untouched, mind-blowing talent, I kid you not. In the words of Sarah Vaughan "I just sing. I don't know what I sound like or who I sound like. I don't know what kind of a singer I am. I just open my mouth and sing."
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda Again, a view skewed in favour of the singer... must learn to listen, must understand the words, must read music, must understand the intention of the composer, it is a constant dynamic back and forth between each member of your band, and when it's live, there is a triangular aspect to include the audience. Witness the amazing rapport between Benson and Krall, Badu's not even IN the picture...
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata Listening, understanding the words, understanding composer intention are a necessary addition to the voice if you want to give a good overall performance. I am speaking a la carte in focus of the voice. Some great voices are not great interpreters, some great interpreters don't have great voices. The Perfect Performer understands and interprets the intentions of the composer WITH a great voice: Judy Garland, Doris Day, Anita Baker, Diana Ross, Karen Carpenter, Stephanie Mills.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda Singing, like any profession, is a craft that requires mastery. The greatest of diva of them all, La Callas, adopted this approach to her singing, and therefore she has become representative of the highest standard of singing. The vulgar singer, like Badu, usually has no knowledge of this precious tradition. Singers these days view themselves as a separate unit. The sample of singers you provide only betray the superficiality of your knowledge of singing.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata I don't believe great singers come out of the womb blowing, no. Everything requires development over time, exercising, but you need to have something worthwile developing in the first place. Everyone has SOMETHING to develop and, with proper exercising, they can develop to meet their personal best, which may not be solo artitst great. I know you know this. Maria Callas is a wonderful soprano opera singer, whom I guarantee, had a gift to work with.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata I myself have an operatic voice, mezzo-soprano, that I am still in the process of fine tuning, but it has always been there. I prefer singing in my speaking voice, I truly, truly enjoy it. The artists I've mentioned have beautiful voices, beautiful, not opera, but beautiful gifts nontheless. Judy, Anita, Diana, Doris, and Maria are blessed with voices. Many are not to their extent. Others possess only the ability to colour, interpret, provide emotion, with a descent voice.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda Furthermore, vocal acrobatics can happen at any range, you can listen to prodigal compositions of Salieri in the mezzo range. Do we value these today? No, we do not, they are empty pieces who sole purpose is to showcase the singer. Like fast jazz piano fingering, the Salieri singer needs practice enough quick scales to impress. I can tell you for sure that Aretha cannot sing Salieri, she tried Nessun dorma, and that was a profanity.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata Yes, I agree, vocal acrobatics can be performed at any range: soprano, mezzo, contralto, tenor, baritone, or bass. I've already stated to you my opinion of the perfect performer: understanding+interpretation+voice, not just voice. If you choose to ignore what I've stated, so be it. Everyone's voice fits into some category above, but not every soprano is great, not every contralto is great, not every baritone is great. Some have just enough to carry them professionally, thats it.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda I'm also surprised you have not mentioned Madam Holiday, the woman with the most amazing vocal colour, who only needs a bassist to "perform". Every live performance is a precious event, because it is live, the artists are creating art before our very eyes. Jazz, by nature of its virtue, encourages live improvised performances by skillful musicians. It is awkward when someone is clearly out of the league, here it is Badu.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata Billy Holiday has much colour, feeling, and attitude in her voice. She's a wonderful performer, but her voice alone is not great, unique, yes, but not great. She's a great jazz perfomer, though. She can touch masses with her feeling & sound, but her voice is not GREAT. There are many great perfomers that don't have gifted voices, but can still move a crowd honey. In turn, Gifted voices won't give great performances if they lack proper interpretation and mood, even opera singers.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda I don't see why there needs to exist an "overall" performance and a "voice" performance. On the sheet, it's all a line, a "voice". Indeed, in jazz, the same vocal line can be replaced by another instrument, a clarinet, for example. I've heard enough natural vocal talent not to be bowled over by a bevy of choir singers. And your claim that voice is a natural phenomenon is just ridiculous.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata Understanding of the song and proper interpretation in form of feeling, mood, and personal touch, all expressed within a beautifully gifted voice(of all ranges), can't be beat. O.k. voices usually are heightened in all other areas, they have to be. Like a blind person whos other senses are heightened; the blind person's other senses are heightened to make up for their lack of eye sight. The same with a good performer without a gifted solo artist voice, everything else magnifies.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata You have alot to learn about natural gifts, I'm so serious. I'm not saying this to be mean or hurtful. It just seems you haven't a clue about that area. I'm not surprised wih anything your saying, it's expected and I'm getting tired and warn out trying to explain myself here. I expect your going to come back chewing me out, but I just don't care anymore. We just have to agree to disagree here.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda Theory is derived from nature, because nature is perfect and human construction displays our quest to mirror the perfection in nature. Why do we use the term song bird? Because nature came first in form of a bird. There is no shame in participating in music theory that is the result hundreds of years of tradition and evolution. On the contrary, it is to the singer's benefit! Do not be scared of hard work and dedication. Choirs do scales too, I'm sure.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata When is the last time you saw a singing bird in a training studio, huh? The song bird is all naturaaaaal baby. The other birds who can't sing like the song bird would need to theorize the song bird's natural ability so they can attempt a beautiful voice in that way, to try and understand what they lack naturally, disect it. Dont be stubborn, admit you may have to work hard when others dont. Don't be prideful. If a BIRD can be natural, why not humans? Goodbye, I'm done buddy.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda We are much better than the bird, we started at some point with the bird, a bird can only sing one line over and over again, except the Nightingale. I'm not surprised by your attitude, which is characteristic of lazy young singers who don't want to apply theory or approach singing like a craft to master. It's an attitude problem.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@mdoranda Yes and lower animals are born able to swim, why can't we??? What a silly silly point of view. Art and singing are far too much of a hallowed art for some like yourself. Don't use solfege, it's not natural. Do not read any music either. Do you think art and music are here to for your exploitation? All that's left for you are Arabic song cycles, or perhaps Indian chanting.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata Some of us just don't have to work as hard as others NEED to, mam. I don't know what else to say to you. I'm a case in point, I'm a living example of what I am talking about. I go through scales, breath support, I understand how to reach my higher and lower register properly, but this is all mainly support for what I already have. Most of the women in my family have been blessed with beautiful song bird voices and not one of them received professional training.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda The vulgar audience is content with simply listening, for them it is a synthetic process, not analysis, usually. But the audience is the audience, and especially a vulgar audience, will behave this way. For them, music is a form of exploitation by which they derive pleasure. When I use the word vulgar, please understand it is to mean, "not classically trained", as in "vulgar latin".
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata Call it art, call it trash, give me a A, B, or an F! WHO CARES. I would tell any true soul expressor, put your heart into all that you do and don't worry about anyone else. I myself may be an audience member, but please don't worry about me, don't consider me, get into your own world and express yourself with all your heart, all your soul, all that you've got!. I'm just happy to watch quietly, if you don't mind. I won't disturb you. Dont try and impress me, DO YOU... as I peek.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda Other musicians, because the instrument they place is a lifeless object outside their body, must practice to master this instrument. If a singer is to collaborate with such a group of musicians, and she is unable to communicate, what is the point? For singers, it is much more intuitive, the organ responds differently, but should be approached like any other instrument.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@mdoranda Mr. Bocelli, for example, is blind. He cannot read music. It is inconceivable for a blind singer to do opera. Many love him just for the timbre of his voice, but he is not a classically trained singer. It would be extremely difficult to produce a live opera with him, as he cannot see the conductor. On the other hand, Pavarotti did great in vulgarizing opera, although no mics should be used, and I haven't seen choirs sing with mics, the chest is our resonance box.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata I understand and respect your feelings concerning the glorified singer. When a beautiful voice meets a beautiful song, the song supports the singer just as much as the singer gives life to the song. A voice needs a song, a song needs a voice. If I love a song, I want to hear it sung right and not by someone who just may want to showcase their gifted vocal abilities. I'd prefer someone with more moderate vocal ability giving proper emotional interpretation to a song I love.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata I really like a song called, The Look Of Love, and while Diana Krall may not have a great voice in and of itself, to me, I still love her rendition of it. I have her version of it on my MP3; I enjoy listening to her perform it. Mary J. Blige does not have a great voice at all to me, but she can hold a not well and her performances burn with emotion and good interpretation. She moves me sometimes, she is real. I don't JUST want a great voice. I understand how you feel, I think.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda Most here will not value Krall for her voice, rather she is an amazing pianist. Regardless, as others have pointed out, she displays her knowledge of the style: it's swingy, there's rubato, the phrasing is just so amazing. A Jazz trio is not the ideal platform for an amazing voice... Perhaps Badu was included because many consider her voice akin to Madam Holiday's... in any case, I value her in other genres.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata In the case of Judy Gar, I must admit, I just looove her voice. I scour the internet looking for anything she sings because I love listening to that voice. It's just so beautiful to me. She also provides wonderful emotion and respects the intention of the song. There is NOTHING like a great voice that renders a song the way it should be rendered. When a gifted voice and a great song meet, and they respect one another, it is pure magic! So very rare, in my opinion.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda Yes... the voice is the greatest instrument of all, nothing man-made or no feat of engineering can produce the suite of frequencies our voices produce. Fascination for the voice and diva worship is nothing new, it's been going on, and it still does. Singers get praise from the audience, but is that why you choose to sing? Or do you love to sing just for the sake of singing? Do you love singing because you love art?
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata Opera singers voices are magnificent! But I can't stand listening to alot of them, because alot of their performances are void of life, feeling, for me. Many of them are all voice. I'll tip my hat to L. Pavarotti and Andrea Bocelli; wonderful, just marvelous, the full packages. They can really move me. I enjoy many many songs, genres, voice types, I just love music. But, perfection for me will always be a hand-in-glove collaboration between a GREAT voice and a GREAT song. Rare.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda Opera existed before... and I'm sure people have not changed how they feel emotions from back then. The opera singer is held at the highest standard of singing, it requires a good organ to begin with, constant training, knowledge of at least French, German and Italian, not only scales, but runs, turns, roulades, trilling... etc... and you perform live, in front of people like me, who will know if you screw up.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@mdoranda I'm not saying you have to listen to opera, that is my personal choice, among other music I listen to. I am also very advanced in my age, and I work with young adults. Do you know when we were 20, most of my generation were self-sufficient adults. I don't associate any kind of virtue to 20 year olds acting like they are 12, nor do I associate any virtue to profesionnal singers acting like a vulgar audience, nor do I associate any virtue to having Badu spit her way through this song.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata I don't know German, I don't know French, I don't know Italian. When I listen to music, voices, I don't listen critically to hear if they are meeting all of the standard or advanced artistic requirements. I love music, I love people, I love life, I love sincerity, I love the human passion for whatever someone is involved in, for themselves. I'm a fan of expressonists, not necessarily impressionists...Ballet, opera singers, orchestra, so technical, generally speaking of course.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda I enjoy art when it's a sincere and beautiful translation of the spirit of its creator. I dance as well as sing, and I do it all for ME. For hours in the privacy of my own home, I dance and sing, and cry sometimes because I am emotionally involved in what I do. I'm at peace then and I use my body and voice to express myself, for myself. The best of my expressions come out then. I could care less whether an audience, art critics, or you enjoy it or not. Grade me, who cares. Its for ME.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda
I have spent considerable time going through this conversation. Laeli is either a troll, or someone we should sympathize with. Unfortunately I conclude the latter.
Music to me elicits an immediate emotional response. Many times my current mood will dictate whether or not I enjoy a piece of music. If later I am in a different mood and reevaluate a song, so be it. This is much different than picking a piece apart.
Thank you for sharing, despite your intended audience.
JimLongo1 1 year ago
@JimLongo1 Thank you so much for your comment. I'm so embarassed for getting into this looong, heated debate with Laeli, so looong. I should have ended it a while ago, but got too emotionally involved, you know. I'm the same way; my mood will decide my song choice at that time, very much so.
I really appreciate your words, thank you.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda You're not opera singer... so why would anyone expect opera from you. This is jazz... and we expect jazz.... The audience listening analytically does not affect the performance in any way... however, most musicians must know how to? Madam Vaughan's claim that she has no idea how she sounds, is a rather ridiculous statement, and I wonder if it's taken out of context. Certainly if singing is your selfish conduit that I spoke of, then you surely know how you sound.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata I do have an operatic voice, I do sing it. I've told you that before, whether or not you think I am a liar is of no concern to me, it doesn't take it away. However, I sense something else wrong with you, something very deep. I sense anger, hatred, disgust, a very dark spirit from you. I won't aide your display of this darkness. You don't seem to like PEOPLE, their beautiful unique soulful expressions, or..art, the heart of it. You need serious help, and I hope you find healing.
mdoranda 1 year ago
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@mdoranda You can be Queen of the world if you so choose, in your relativist world. What you believe is true is true, after all. You sound like the overweight people who can't control their weight... we say, please eat less and excercise more. That is not unnatural submission... only a human would choose to be overweight. You have a well constructed defense mechanism, and I do not wish to disturb the "shadows in your cave".
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
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TheTranslator100 1 year ago
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@mdoranda So you have an Operatic voice - what does that mean?!? Are you an Opera singer, Jazz vocalist, Dancer or what?!? Sounds like a bunch of ambiguous drivel, if you ask me. Reminds me of the Hip Hop producer who claimed to be a "former" Jazz guitarist - pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeze, either you are, or you aren't. BTW, resorting to ad hominems as a vehicle to elude the issue at hand, is only effective if done tactfully, and with jocosity. Just a suggestion for future posts...*wink*
TheTranslator100 1 year ago
@TheTranslator100 I thank you very much for taking the time to comment. However, I've said all that I can sincerely say on within this heated conversation, and am now just worn out, empty, there's nothing more. I am sorry that I can't give you anything more. I just hope that we will all keep on loving music in whatever beautiful expresssion it comes in. Thank you much, and have a good evening.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda I thank YOU very much for taking the time to reply in such a congenial manner - it could have took a turn for the worst lol
TheTranslator100 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata You are so trained. Soaked through and through; trained ear, trained opinion, trained pleasures. You're like a computer that has been fully downloaded with precisely what art is, looks like, smells like, tastes like, all neat and clean, no mess! Do you like red blooded human beings? Do you like or even respect nature, the soul and it's sincere, beautiful expressions? Do you like people? Do you like art that expresses the soul, the beauty of its creator?
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda I certainly respect nature, I worship it. It's perfect after all. And what separates us from the lower animal is our realisation, at a very young age, that we are imperfect as humans. As a result, we are also the only animal that displays denial of the fact. Instead, some dedicate to improving themselves. You may view it as unnatural submission, but this is the philosophy in which I am soaked. It is what I teach.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata Hun, (if you're not female, please excuse me lol) after perusing the bulk of this debate, the only thing I can deduce is a bunch of feckless philosophical blathering, if you ask me,. As to Opera singing; I concur, it requires vast training to master, but unlike monstrous Classical symphonies, some of that Opera s**t sounds friggin coooooooooooooooooooorny lol
TheTranslator100 1 year ago
@TheTranslator100 All that woman is saying is that Badu was born with a prettier voice... and what has transpired is her trying to justify her original claim, and now she's wrapped herself around the relativist's cloak -- how convenient.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata Well, I'm not taking sides here, as each of you have presented your arguments very articulately, unlike many exchanges that have consisted of choice adjectives, bad grammar and syntax, or what I refer to as >>> Ghetto vernacular. As to MY opinion of the 3 "singers" in question: George is a "true" Jazz artist. Erykah Badu is an avant garde "R&B" vocalist (Mariah Carey's style is much more appealing), and Diana Krall is just a GORGEOUS Blond lol. Thanks for the commentary...
TheTranslator100 1 year ago
@TheTranslator100 I was just referring to opera where the best singers belong. I once thought opera sounded terrible. But if the artist is the consummate singer, they may consider opera. Price, Verrett, Norman were all afroamerican women, all started in church choirs, who chose to be opera singers, and they found great success in Europe, where skin colour does not matter in creating art. And those women are profesionnals, which mdoranda is not.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata The best in art is always produced under the conditions of expressing oneself without the consideration of judgemental spectators, or non-judgemental ones. Sure, it would be nice if they enjoyed you, but let it be YOU, ALWAYS! Most ballet dancers can't do this since they must conform to a mountain load of un-natural techniques. There is amazing and epic techniques within, but often so void of life and soul expression. Natural beings beat into un-natural submissions.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata Anyway, I'm not a big fan of impressionists. I siiiiing, I daaance, I express, for me. It's people like you with your fat book of methods, techniques, critiques, and HOW DARE YOU, THIS IS ART! attitude, that can really inhibit and harm sensitive soul expressors. Art follows them, art means them and like their talent or not, side-watchers should just keep quiet, have respect, watch, and be happy to witness. If you love art as you say, love the ARTIST and not the institution.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda How dare I? How dare you, is more like it. That particular view on art is entirely relativist and a selfish conduit for self-actualisation. It doesn't really have anything to do with creating a lasting work for art, to celebrate human constructions, which again, as I said before, reflects the perfection we see in nature and our constant strive to attain perfection.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@mdoranda I agree. Notwithstanding the technical prowess required to perform it, the vast majority of Opera singers sound lame at best. Of course, this is just my opinion. And since you mentioned their performances as being "void of life," sorry, but Celine Dion made Andrea Bocell sound like a boring 80 yr old when he featured on one of her CD's. He was doing fine, until Celine started to do the R&B ad-lib thing. She tried to up-stage Aretha Franklin in the same manner on a televised event...
TheTranslator100 1 year ago
@TheTranslator100 I didn't know Celine and Andrea collaborated. I'm honestly not surprised to hear your opinion, however; Celine's voice is extreeeeeemly flexible, she glides through notes with ease and is just remarkable in her personalization. Are you a fan of her? Are you an artist yourself, of any form? You know, I can almost see an opera singer halting in the middle of a song, mouth wide open, singing along a big voiced, master ad-libber in the midst of his/her run. Will listen to song.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda Yes, I'm a guitarist. Although I've primarily performed R&B and some Rock in the past, my main goal is Jazz and Fusion, which are 2 entirely different genres (It's now wonder why I'm partial to Benson - duh). I've also attempted Classical and Flamenco in the past, but with limited success. As to R&B/Pop, I'm a fan of ANY female vocalist with the BIG voice, such as MARIIAH, CELINE, WHITNEY, CHAKA, et.al. I can't remember the name of the duet, so I guess you'll have to youtube it.
TheTranslator100 1 year ago
DottoJojo, Erykah is not a GREAT singer either, but she clearly has the more colorful, rangeful voice out of the two here. Maybe Diana could have stretched her vocal muscles more if she weren't multi-tasking, I don't know, whatever the reason, the result is an o.k. vocal performance. There are many ways this song could have been performed with justice. A song may not have just one vocal mate; depending on a performers ability, timbre & range, a song can have some versatility without sacrafice.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda Yes you're born with the organ, how the artist develops it is entirely up to them. The vocal aspect of the entire performance is incidental, I'm sure you would have noticed if you claim to have listened to different versions of this. In short, there is nothing characteristic of Badu's performance, nor is her interpretation in line with the other two. Most artists worship and respect the tradition of jazz too much to butcher a song like this.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata Yes we are born with the organ and how we develop WHAT WE HAVE is entirely up to them. We can develop our voices to meet our personal best and in and of itself, it can be beautiful. However, we still may not have the range, power, and quality of others. I believe everyone has a voice and the nature of it's beauty is unique for everyone; some are just more powerful, some have more range, some are meant to be soft and gentle, you know. Both artist's voices serve well here.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@mdoranda Voices, like any instrument, come in different shapes and sizes, and to each there exists an appropriate composition. Take something as simple as Bye Bye Blackbird, the artist does not require a large range and it's a simple line to sing. The value lies in the interpretation and the ability to colour the voice, no English required to get it. For shrieks a la Aretha, then go listen to her, but she's not really jazz.
Laeliapurpurata 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata Voices do come in all shapes and sizes, but most should not be solo artists. Too many people decide that because they want to SING, they are going to become solo artists even when they are not. They color it up, act, and adorn their performance with all types of adornments to cover up the fact that they don't have a real solo voice. They can't sing stripped, like Aretha can! So, they pay, train hard, apply theory, learn performance and go. It works, the industry is full of them.
mdoranda 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata I'll tell ya, I'll pay to see someone adorn themselves well and give their all to provide a good performance, why not, it's entertaining. Would I pay to see some of these singers stripped of adornments, acapella, NOOO! They better PERFORM and support their lack of solo artist voice they way it should be supported if they want to keep a career. Patti Labelle, Judy Garland don't need adornments, they can go either way. Judy has "done it up," but I'm always mesmerized by that voice
mdoranda 1 year ago
@Laeliapurpurata You're a precious find to me since all self-important youtubers with education in music that i've met so far praise Aretha for her voice and skill. For example @Chimier who has compiled many videos says her high belts or 'shrieks' as you call them :) are perfectly resonant and supported. He, along with bconsitt (an opera lover) calls aretha a perfect musician and interpreter with unmached rhytm, melisma and so on. i'd like to read Your opinions confronted with theirs
MrJudube 9 months ago
@MrJudube Hi, I haven't praised Aretha... I don't really know Aretha. But look at the lady, she's quite expansive. These singers usually just need to exhale and the pressure from within does the pushing to produce a well-supported sound, listen and compare Deborah Voigt's before and after weight loss. As for resonance of the voice, that should be heard live and unamplified, which I have not. But what I have heard from her is a pattern of formulaic cadenza/fioritura at then end of her airs.
Laeliapurpurata 9 months ago
@MrJudube The rest is a matter of opinion. What I have witnessed in her singing always reminds me of the worst of coloratura/a piacere singing. Give some freedom to the singer, and the diva goes overboard, often because she is goaded by audience. Some like it, but the interpretation falls into the vulgar for me if voice doesn't add to the drama, if not placed without consideration the climactic structure of the piece, but rather uncovered selfish belts with no value expect to show off...
Laeliapurpurata 9 months ago
@Laeliapurpurata uh... if placed, that is.
Laeliapurpurata 9 months ago
@Laeliapurpurata he heh these guys give Aretha as an example of not exhibiting exactly the faults You've listed when criticising other singers. I guess cadenza or floritura require quite a lof of skills like the pitch, rhytm, keeping onself within chord progressions while improvising and so on. They say aretha always belts with a musical purpose and never strains. I'll ask @bconsitt his commentary if You don't mind
BTW excuse my English ;)
MrJudube 9 months ago
@MrJudube Why is it that you're ALWAYS mentioning me or talking about me in one video or another? Haven't you got better things to do?
Chimier 7 months ago
@Chimier Because A) Youtube comments are public B) there are thousands of Yours to stumble upon and i have good memory. No, two or three times doesn't equal "ALWAYS". Consider writing thoughts on a sheet of paper instead of Internet if You don't wan't people to address them. BTW it's so lame go ad personam.
MrJudube 7 months ago
@MrJudube Two to three times? LOL I cannot. Everytime I come cross you now, it's because you keep talking about me. I don't care whether comments are public, there is no reason why you need to keep bringing up my name. THAT'S lame.
Chimier 7 months ago
@Chimier "everytime"? the last time I cited you was about half year ago. The last time I talked to You was a few months ago. Don't act like a harassed person lol. Is there anything interesting you've got to state in the actual topic?
MrJudube 7 months ago
@MrJudube Half a year ago? Funny...I came across a video one month ago where you called sentfromupabove "Chimier's wannabe"....
No one said anything about harassed. #FAIL
Thing is, you "cite" me more than I would like. There is NO reason for you to bring up my name whatsoever, period. It's annoying, borderline disturbing.
Chimier 7 months ago
@Chimier AFAIR I called sentfromupabove a wannabe because he was mimicking somebody else's style of disregarding people ("next", "fail", "sit down" and so on).
"There is NO reason for you to bring up my name whatsoever"
You can't post tens of thousands comments on Youtube in a specific area of interest and expect people not to address them. What's disturbing is how much energy you put into this personal OFFTOPIC.
MrJudube 7 months ago
@MrJudube Still no need for you to bring up my name. You could have easily said "some people on youtube say that Aretha's belts are...."
I love how you try and turn everything I say to you on me. I can put as much energy as I like into a topic, whether it's on-topic or not, as long as my name is brought up into it.
Keep my name out your posts. I was in no way relevant to the conversation you were having when you brought it up in the first place.
Chimier 7 months ago
@Chimier I mentioned @bconsitt's name as well. I don't know if it was disturbing for him (lol) but he kindly accepted my invitation to discuss with @Lealiapurpurata (thank You @bconsitt). The idea was to confront two opposite views on Aretha franklin from people whose opinions I thought might be reasoned.
MrJudube 7 months ago
@MrJudube I'm not bconsitt, so....
As I said, keep my name out of your convos when it's not needed.
Chimier 7 months ago