I just wanted to reiterate my thanks again to ElasticJesusRez for making this video to raise awareness about climate change and also raise awareness about the abuse the denier with all the sock puppet channels does to people who talk about climate change, or point out what he is doing.
If he keeps removing my comment I will have to thank you again, which is fine, I can find a million ways to say thanks and I don't mind saying so!
@Nightversionn The climate models are not actually models you know they are spherical crystal devices that when hands are laid on them a swirling mist reveals what will be happening in the future, failing that the backup system is used which employs a china teacup and some old fashioned tea, not the baggy stuff and voila predictions that would have as much bearing on reality as a climatologist riding the train of plenty.
Yes, I'd like to say thanks again to the maker of this video for noticing how the denier/s like to harass anyone who talks about climate change, regular people, by impersonating them and cyber-bullying them.
Thanks from me and a lot of other people they do this to.
Another reason the oil industry needs to go, in my book (they finance this sort of thing obviously)
Poor poor Jesus. He thinks that illiterate race of LImies who can't make two words rhyme without different spellings. The best of the Limies were sent to Australia, the remainder too stupid to move.
Were you born or hatched?
Stand by Jesus, Nighty wants to kiss your ass.
Of course we know it's all Greenpreach money being spent to fund these self serving idiots. 'scuse retards.
@patioperson Why are you flagging Nightversionn's post as spam? Do you disagree with what she says? Does it bother you that she's saying it? Are you a false flagger, Patio?
@patioperson I know you think you are harassing me by removing my comments with your denier sock puppet accounts, however, you actually give me the opportunity to keep thanking ElasticJesusRez for making this video in support of raising awareness about climate change and also about denier abuse.
I am of German stock and my Fueher was an honorable, why the fuckin' "h", onerable would do, and no need for a "u".
Anyway, my Kaiser was an honorable admiral of the British Navy. But you rotten Limies took an alliance with the Tsar and boxed us in.
Then the Canucks (racist word) joined with the Aussies (another racist word) and the Anzacs (more racism!) and came to rescue the Limies who bit off more than they could chew. Now poor old UK is history.
Jesus, is operating exactly like Nightly, and I believe is Nightly.
Takes a snapshot, runs to the moderator.
What a fuckin' wimp.
Proposing pseudo-science picked from scraps of gravy train detritus.
These Greenpreach sock accounts congratulate each other, expecting the stupid will believe these are individuals.
It's a scam and now Jesus, er Nightly, has hired a cartoonist to back their ridiculous stance. I suppose younger dumb viewers will believe cartoons over reality. Cow jumps over moon.
Jesus, Paki is no more racist than Canuck is a racist term for a Canadian.
PC is the belief that a turd can be picked up by the clean end. Which end do you wish to be spoken to?
Kingdom, that's where the retarded Prince Charles comes from. He wants to come back as a virus and wipe out mankind. Why doesn't he start with that whole racist royal family. Racist is where you get preferential treatment because of your race. English royalty descended from George of Hanover.
Actually so are you, unless you're not of European stock. Where would you like me to start? The Celts of Austria and Southern France who spread across the whole continent and became Picts, Greeks, Romans, Germanics, Visigoths, Angles, Saxons, Franks, Vikings, Jutes and on and on.
And the greatest irony is that America is but a homecoming to those Celts who split and once again became united - IOW British, Irish, & German.
Jesus I knew you were from some country that puts a "u" into words that don't need it. Where off and cough rhyme, where goad and mode don't rhyme. It's been said that the English language was developed by English scholars. I call them idiots. You shouldn't need a dictionary to find the pronunciation, that's the job of spelling.
But why do you have the Paki accent? Don't you speak English?
Mother in law is English. She said, get on a bus in England and you can't understand anyone else.
@TheElasticClara I do like it Clara. But Mark's idea for Pt2 would be better. You & your numerous infestations with a Al Gore enema blowing carbon credits out of Mark's ass and you & your manifestations like Benzeppi, Substanti8, Nightversionn, Yourkids, Randomlaughingman etc shoveling the carbon credits into a group of Wall St bankers pockets. That would be entertaining. Perhaps you all could also be wearing various dildos & carbon credit costumes, would make it funnier. :-) Clara/martyMassa
There you go again, bleating on about research while NOT even bothering to check my nationality.
I'm from the UK, numbnut. That is UNITED KINGDOM, administrative authority over England, Scotland, Wales, and NI.
And by the way, if you can see the NW Passage from your house then I'm equally entitled to see the CAIRN rigs off Illulisat that used to be covered in ice.
Only trouble is, my exaggeration happens to be true.
You really are an ignorant island in the middle of nowhere, aren't you?
If 3000ppm is normal for HOMO SAPIENS then 3000 ppm is what it would have been over the past 4 million years when humans evolved over in the Pakistani end of the planet and NOT by Great Bear Lake.
Alas for you it wasn't. Its been a steady 250 ppm for the past 800,000, which ironically coincides with a period of vast human development.
But, if you would rather stay the monkey you never evolved beyond?
@TheElasticJesusRez Keep up the great work against this anti-American anti-Western terrorist AGW-denier piece of shit. They are running scared now, and will soon all be locked up for crimes against humanity, for being a threat and danger to nations.
@mphello Mark said if you had come over to Badsey dressed as the dildo you are for halloween he would have let you perform a trick of shoving a carbon credit up his anus. Your treat would have been Mark expelling a load of carbon credits already stuffed up there by Clara Massa's infestations like the latex nazarene, Bernzeppi, Yourkids, that you could than hand over to Greenman to deliver to the Wall St Carbon gangsters. Oh Mark took a dump in the Montauk chair for you to enjoy
I don't know who the fuck you are, but clearly you are a worthless insane rapist and child molestor that needs to be tortured and executed for the sake of humanity. Guess I'll have to go around telling everyone that sockpuppet account LordMonckton78 is a proven rapist and child molestor, who has multiple felones on his rap sheet and has to report daily as a sex offender.
I don't know who the fuck you're talking about (Mark, Massa, Montauk? ?etc)
I appreciate this video and the fact that people have taken notice about the fact these trolls lie online about the climate change, and routinely harass anyone who talks about global warming. They usually target one person at a time in an effort to make them stop talking about climate change.
Thank you for the support and for standing up for the truth, and right and wrong, and highlighting it.
Could someone create a video with myself kicking stones down the tracks as the gravy train loaded with alarmists drinking champagne and eating caviar passes me with the mural on the side saying "No Realists Allowed on This Train".
The gravy train will not stop for a denier like me unless I'm able to sneak aboard during one of its refunding stops. The gravy train does have to stop for more funding and the restocking of the caviar.
To ride the Gravy Train you must be a warmist scammer.
I want to thank you again for making this video about man-made climate change. What could be more important?
But also thank you for exposing how the denier (s) copy my (and several other) people's username in an effort to cyber-bully us so they can shut down discussion about climate change and try to hide what they are doing,
Very good but you realise no matter how many times the lag betwen CO2 and temperature is explained, it we just get brought again, again and again. I still get the 'global warming stopped in 1998' argument thrown at me. Oh well, never mind.
They have this strange idea that if a plane rises to 60,000 feet and then levels out at 50,000, it must be safe enough to open the door and go out for a stroll.
El Nino (in this case 1998) will always add a significant spike to the temps, which only goes to show what shit lies ahead, when the sun finally decides to wake up.
@MrOTLChamp "since the latest IPCC scandel (sic)."
What, you mean the so-called Climategate? The only scandal there were the denier organizations who hacked the data and then manipulated it into something it wasn't.
Idiot.
Btw, how's that global cooling going for you? Your hero, Muller, seems to think that that's a moronic idea now too.
Here's the results of the Berkeley Climate Project They used data from the same weather stations as the Climategate people, but reported that one-third showed cooling — not warming.
@MrOTLChamp Drop the "Climategate" nonsense as the climate scientists have been cleared in multiple independent inquiries. The only way it applies is to the deniers who hacked the database and quote-mined the e-mails.
sks . to/climategate
"reported that one-third showed cooling — not warming"
Gawd and looking at the NOAA data I see stations that are cooling too! Of course, most of them are warming so that still indicates that the average temps are moving upward.
They covered the same land area – less than 30% of the Earth’s surface – with recording stations that are poorly distributed, mainly in US and Western Europe. They state that 70% of US stations are badly sited and don’t meet the standards set by government; the rest of the world is likely worse.
@MrOTLChamp "They state that 70% of US stations are badly sited and don’t meet the standards set by government; the rest of the world is likely worse."
Two things to be dealt with here:
1) The BEST group found no significant urban heating, in fact in more recent data set they found evidence of urban cooling. They also found the avg temp going up.
2) It's mighty presumptuous to believe that the rest of the world's stations are so much worse.
@MrOTLChamp "They covered the same land area – less than 30% of the Earth’s surface – with recording stations that are poorly distributed, mainly in US and Western Europe."
And came to the same conclusion, with no evidence of urban heating playing a significant role.
Unlike the land surface, the atmosphere showed no warming trend, either over land or over ocean — according to satellites and independent data from weather balloons. This indicates to me that there is something very wrong with the land surface data. And did you know that the climate models, run on super-computers, all show that the atmosphere must warm faster than the surface. What does this tell you?
@MrOTLChamp "Unlike the land surface, the atmosphere showed no warming trend, either over land or over ocean — according to satellites and independent data from weather balloons."
There is warming, you're information is out of date.
@wstevenschneider The "hockey stick graph" is a fake. Plain and simple. It has not been replicated. And I never said I trust the climate models. I already know they are wrong. And climategate, was not investigated by independent sources. They were all hired by the government. Not one scientist that doesn't agree with AGW causing catastrophic temps was allowed to investigate, nor do any of them agree with the terms used in those e-mails.
@MrOTLChamp "The "hockey stick graph" is a fake. Plain and simple. It has not been replicated."
This statement here alone proves that you're not even a player in this game. What you need to do right now is shut your mouth, do some reading and learn a little bit of science.
@wstevenschneider ....cont. And finally, we have non-thermometer temperature data from so-called “proxies”: tree rings, ice cores, ocean sediments, stalagmites. They don’t show any global warming since 1940!
@MrOTLChamp "tree rings, ice cores, ocean sediments, stalagmites. They don’t show any global warming since 1940!"
Wow, you can't even keep your own arguments straight. The deniers insist there is a divergence since 1960 and they're wrong. Tree rings diverge for as yet undetermined reasons, but other proxies continue to reinforce temperature readings. Earth is warming.
@wstevenschneider ....cont. The Berkeley results in no way confirm the scientifically discredited Hockeystick graph, which had been so eagerly adopted by climate alarmists. In fact, the Hockeystick authors have never published their temperature results after 1978. The reason for hiding them? It’s likely that their proxy data show no warming either.
@wstevenschneider Peat bog from all over China, Germany, and Ireland, etc. all disprove the BS Hockey stick graph. To even suggest that the hockey stick isn't fake shows you're just a troll. It's impossible because it means there was no MWP..Which we already know happened.
@MrOTLChamp Seriously, shut your hole, do some reading and learn the science. You're only coming across more and more ignorant with every word you say.
@MrOTLChamp You're the one making the claim the Hockey Stick, a verified phenomenon found in the peer-reviewed literature, is somehow broken. You're the one who has to prove it.
Where's your verifiable, peer-reviewed evidence supporting your claim?
Honestly, shut your mouth, stop making a bloody fool of yourself, read the scientific literature on the subject and learn a bit of the science.
@wstevenschneider Here you go dumbass. do some research all peer-reviewed, and not just by friends like your peer-review BS papers' Yang et al. (2002) Yafeng et al. (1999) Hong et al. (2000), Xu et al. (2002) Qian and Zhu (2002) Just for starters Got a bunch more too. LMAO
@MrOTLChamp I just looked at Yang et al 2002 (tinyurl . c o m/66onpsf)
Let's see. Sporadic warming, to a lesser degree than in the NH, punctuated by cooling periods of equal degree. Wow, if this is your evidence that the hockey stick is broken or that the MWP was global, or at least globally synchronous and all of your evidence is like this, then you're already stumbling.
Once again you need to stop talking, read and learn the science. (eg. actually read the papers your using as evidence)
@wstevenschneider Figures you only look at one. Is that how you do it? No wonder your so missinformed. Let me ask you this, even though you only looked at one of the least temperature readings out of all the ones I gave you...Did it look like a "hockey stick"? LMAO
@MrOTLChamp "Figures you only look at one. Is that how you do it?"
Yep, you figured it out. :-)
The fact that you provided no links, or article names had _nothing_ to do with it. Don't worry though, I'm a smart lad and I figured it out despite you obfuscation attempts. Please practice better citing in the future.
I don't see you defending the Yang et al article though. As soon as I refuted it you dropped it and moved on. Is this a sort of admission?
@wstevenschneider I droppped it? LMAO It proves me right still. Does it look like a hockey stick? Of course not. No true temp graph does. Moron. Try and do better next time. Hockey stick remains a fraud.
You're obsessing with one region because of a graph you think proves something over a graph you hate because it demonstrates the irrefutable evidence.
"No true temp graph does."
Define "true temp graph"
Why do all the graphs, proxies and real temps, when put together still, by and large, resembles the hockey stick?
@MrOTLChamp Yafeng et al 1999 (tinyurl . c o m/3msjnq6)
Again, this article doesn't strongly support your "hypothesis" that the Hockey Stick is broken, or that the MWP was global, or at least globally synchronous.
Discussing abstract
1) There are great differences noted between regions in China during the supposed MWP
2) LIA was 60 years earlier in East China than in Guliya Ice Cap
3) third cold event saw a lag in East China behind West China
@MrOTLChamp Hong et al 2000 (tinyurl . c o m/3u8cw64)
As with Yafeng et al I'm only able to access the abstract. From the abstract only it is obvious that they were correlating levels of solar irradiance to past climatic changes. Solar irradiance combined with CO2 levels have always been the two major drivers of climate change. Since I only have the abstract available to me I can't comment on how you think that this "breaks" the Hockey Stick or proves the MWP was global or globally synch'd.
@mphello He's _not_, he's using quotes from anti-science blogs (eg: co2science*org, notrickszone*com and c3headlines*com to name a few) and citing the peer-reviewed literature they misrepresent.
Specifically:
co2science
tinyurl com/7qf7ujo
notrickszone
tinyurl com/73a2mqq
c3headlines
tinyurl com/73wvman
It's been instructive to read the articles he cites back to him to show what they're really saying.
@MrOTLChamp XU et al 2002 (tinyurl . c o m/6yxmcg6)
Again, not strong evidence of a global MWP, or at least one that was globally synchronous. Cooling events occurring during warming events are mentioned so the events weren't exactly synchronized within China either.
It talks a bit out solar forcing and internal variation in the past, but doesn't refute current findings. So it appears that you didn't read this article either.
@MrOTLChamp Qian and Zhu 2002 (tinyurl . c o m/3kwgxcc)
I'm only able to access the abstract. Again, however it appears to talk about a lack of synchronization of MWP and LIA between different parts of China let alone different parts of the world. There is some mention of internal variability, but no refutation of current research noted.
Again, this is just an abstract and to believe that the abstract breaks the Hockey Stick, or proves MWP was global, is pure conjecture.
@wstevenschneider You are out of your mind to believe in the infamous "hockey stick" The only question left for you to answer is...Why did they fake it?
@MrOTLChamp You still have yet to debunk it. You've failed so far at this point. Most of the papers you've cited hardly do that as all but the last one were all about one region, China. Worse yet, the warming and cooling in that region was hardly synchronous within China let alone the rest of the globe.
You do try hard to play at science, but you continually fail.
@wstevenschneider "A peer-reviewed paper published online today in the journal Geophysical Research Letters shows that drought of Western North America was considerably worse during the Medieval Warming Period than at the end of the 20th century. The paper also shows much more variation and extremes in the drought record over the past 5200 years than since the advent of industrialization and rising CO2 levels in the latter 20th century. "hockey stick" debunked
@MrOTLChamp Please proved a link to said paper. I'd love to read it over together with you. I'm sure that the level of your understanding will once again prove illuminating
@TheElasticJesusRez Yeah sure heysus. I've already proven that the MWP happened all over the world. All of China, Germany, Ireland and Canada. Therefore, the "hockey stick" is fake. Just like your so-called 97% of scientist agree BS.
@TheElasticJesusRez I really do appreciate you making this video, and you've made others. It is indeed incredibly hard work in so many ways.
Thanks for "shining the light" on the deniers and how they cyber-bully me and others in an effort to silence people for merely talking about climate change, and telling the truth as they see it!
@TheElasticJesusRez If the denier/s tries to remove my comment (by thumbing it down with countless sock accounts and they have done to my comments before), that's OK, I can think of well over athousand ways to thank you if need be!
@wstevenschneider This one is in Germany, showing the same ht tp : / / notrickszone. co m / 2011 / 10/02/ german - pea t - bog -temperature - reconstruction - shows - strong - central - european - variations /
This one is from Canada ht tp : // ww w .c3headlines . com /2011/06/ canadian - lakes - past - water -levels - refutes - both - manns - hockey - stick - climate - ipccs - unprecedented - modern - .h t ml
@MrOTLChamp Temperature variability at Durres Maar, Germany during the Migration Period and at High Medieval Times, inferred from stable carbon isotopes of Sphagnum cellulose. Moschen et al. 2011.
tinyurl . c o m/6l6wwux
In 5.2 Estimating the past growing season temperature variability at Durres Maar the researcher discuss conditions in the common era. The Roman Optimum is barely detected, the temps around the middle ages quoted as above average. In paragraph 6...
@wstevenschneider Regarding Moschen et al. 2011. The temperature graph (Fig 6) clearly shows a 4 degC swing from the 6th century to the 10th century. indicating the MWP, and a almost 4deg C drop over the next 2 centuries heading into the LIA.
@MrOTLChamp Keep in mind those 4 degC temp variations (60 year running means) are regional. The central euro construction (60 year running means - also regional) shows a much less marked temperature shift. It's also important to note that the temps of the German study weren't consistently above average, only above average in the mean. The high variability in the dataset demonstrates decades of cooler temps vs decades of warmer temps.
There are actually regions that experienced cooling during the supposed MWP, regions that became more arid while temps remained constant, other regions that experienced an increase in moisture while temps remained constant and even regions where there was little, if any, noticeable change at all. I will be presenting some of these studies in the future, but all together they suggest that the MWP was either not global, or at least not globally synchronous.
the authors discuss how their "results confirm regional inconsistency in natural climate variability". They go on to mention "Such is known from modern meteorological observations indicating that decadal scale climate variability is no global nor northern hemispheric phenomenon, rather temperature trends vary by region and season. For example, while current warming and accompanied reduced sea ice cover is..."
"prevalent over most of the Arctic, some areas, such as Greenland, appear to be cooling."
Fig 6. superimposes their modeled data on other data from proxies and real temperature readings. What comes out, in principle, resembles the supposedly broken Hockey Stick.
In the conclusion they state: "posit. The reconstructed GST shows relevant centennial and decadal scale variability. From the 4th to the 7th century AD a cold, and presumably also wet, ..."
"phase with below-average temperature is reconstructed which is in accordance with the so-called European Migration Period marking the transition from the Roman Period to the Early Middle Ages. Despite an overall overestimation of the most prominent warm phases, during High Medieval Times above-average temperatures are obvious. Most notably, temperatures were not low or high in general, rather high frequency temperature variability with multiple..."
"narrow intervals of below- and above average temperatures lasting a few decades is demonstrated. In contrast, a pronounced Late Roman Climate Optimum often described as similar warm or even warmer as medieval times could not be detected. The reconstructed GST shows a remarkable agreement with the Central European temperature reconstruction based on tree-ring datasets and is also in accordance with..."
"climate reconstructions on the basis of lake sediments and glacier advances and retreats."
So the temps around the Medieval era weren't exceptionally high, but there was a high degree of variability within the region itself. The authors also spoke about how there is little synchronization within the NH let alone the globe (para 6, sect 5.2)
This article does little to "break" the Hockey Stick, or prove the MWP was global or even globally synchronous.
@MrOTLChamp A 5200year record of freshwater availability for region in western North America fed by highelevation runoff. Wolfe et al. 2011
The data corresponding to drought conditions in the Medieval era in Alberta are within, but fall short of the time frame of the MWP (950 - 1250 AD by the Wiki). Whatever was causing the drought in Alberta at the time didn't have the same duration although it does appear to have started at the same time (Fig 2)....
@wstevenschneider The drought of Western North America was considerably worse during the Medieval Warming Period than at the end of the 20th century. The paper also shows much more variation and extremes in the drought record over the past 5200 years than since the advent of industrialization and rising CO2 levels in the latter 20th century. Nobody said the durations of the MWP had to be the same everywhere, but it again clearly shows climate was affected around the world.
@MrOTLChamp "The drought of Western North America was considerably worse during the Medieval Warming Period than at the end of the 20th century." Indeed, one must also keep in mind that the mid-holocene was a 2 Ka period that was about as warm as pre-20th century warmth, but not as warm as current day. As time progresses and temperatures climb, Western NA is bound for much drier times.
Note also that there is no mention of temps. Now this doesn't mean that temps weren't above average at that time, but the researchers don't specifically say that. In para 4, sect 5.2 of the Moschen et al. 2011. the researchers mentioned dry conditions as opposed to warm conditions caused a medieval retreat of glaciers in the alps. A similar phenomenon may have occurred in Alberta too. This is a question one would have to put to...
the corresponding author of the Wolfe et al. 2011. paper. The authors of the paper do state several times that the current global warming is causing water levels to decrease in our time.
Since the sun is quiet ATM this warming must be driven by CO2, excess CO2 caused by human industry. So again, another paper that doesn't "break" the Hockey Stick, nor prove that the MWP was global or globally synchronous.
@MrOTLChamp "In fact, the Hockeystick authors have never published their temperature results after 1978."
Nonsense, the data about the divergence has been in the peer-reviewed literature since 1995 and discussed openly in the third and fourth IPPC reports.
tinyurl . c o m/5rrz5dx
"It’s likely that their proxy data show no warming either."
Too much speculation, not enough real data from you.
@wstevenschneider One last word: In their scientific paper, submitted for peer review, the Berkeley scientists disclaim knowing the cause of the temperature increase reported by their project. However, their research paper comments: “The human component of global warming may be somewhat overestimated.” I commend them for their honesty and skepticism.
S. Fred Singer is professor emeritus at the University of Virginia and director of the Science & Environmental Policy Project.
@MrOTLChamp "the Berkeley scientists disclaim knowing the cause of the temperature increase reported by their project."
1) The study wasn't about discovering the cause.
2) The study was to determine if urban heating was having a significant effect on station temperature reading. It was not found to be significant and urban cooling was found in the more recent data sets.
3) Average temperatures of the stations indicated rising temperatures.
@wstevenschneider Their efforts revealed, first of all, that the MWP had indeed held sway on the Chinese mainland over the period AD 700-1400, peaking at about AD 900. And the eight researchers report that phenological data from east China (Ge et al., 2006) and tree-ring records from west China
@wstevenschneider ...cont. (Yang et al., 2000) also indicate that "the temperature on the Chinese mainland was distinctly warmer during the MWP." In fact, they say MWP temperatures were as much as "0.9-1.0°C higher than modern temperatures (Zhang, 1994)."
@wstevenschneider Secondly, with respect to the last 14,000 years, Hong et al. write that "sudden cooling events, such as the Older Dryas, Inter-Allerod, Younger Dryas, and nine ice-rafted debris events of the North Atlantic" -- which are described by Stuiver et al. (1995) and Bond et al. (1997, 2001) --Cont...
@wstevenschneider ....cont. "are almost entirely reiterated in the temperature signals of Hani peat cellulose δ18O." And they state that "these cooling events show that the repeatedly occurring temperature cooling [and warming] pattern not only appeared in the North Atlantic Region in the high latitudes, but also in the Northwest Pacific Region in the middle latitudes," Cont...
@wstevenschneider ....cont. indicating that the recurring warming and cooling did indeed occur "outside the European region" and that it truly was "a common phenomenon."
@MrOTLChamp Nice summation, of someone else's thoughts. However, whom are you citing? Also, those papers would be interesting to read together (we already have seen some and they didn't quite say what you thought they did). Please provide links to said articles or at least provide the names of the articles in this comment.
@wstevenschneider This link shows multiple locations in China all showing climate conditions aligning with the MWP and LIA. ht tp : // ww w .co2science. org / subject / m / summaries / mw pchina . p hp
@wstevenschneider Hong et al. (2000) The study area was relatively cold between 4000 and 2600 BC. Then it warmed fairly continuously until it reached the maximum warmth of the record about 1600 BC, after which it fluctuated about this warm mean for approximately 2000 years. Cont...
@wstevenschneider Starting about AD 350, however, the climate began to cool, with the most dramatic cold associated with three temperature minima centered at about AD 1550, 1650 and 1750, corresponding to the most severe cold of the Little Ice Age. Of particular note is the authors' finding of "an obvious warm period represented by the high delta18O from around AD 1100 to 1200 which may correspond to the Medieval Warm Epoch of Europe." Cont...
@wstevenschneider They also report that "at that time, the northern boundary of the cultivation of citrus tree (Citrus reticulata Blanco) and Boehmeria nivea (a perennial herb), both subtropical and thermophilous plants, moved gradually into the northern part of China, and it has been estimated that the annual mean temperature was 0.9-1.0°C higher than at present."
Huh, tropical tree's moving north in China, can only mean warmer temps.
@MrOTLChamp If you have an available copy of the Hong et al 2000 study available please provide it so that we can all access it and decide what it says for ourselves.
Note several things:
1) The timings of the MWP-LIA in your summary although close, but not quite what is canon for those periods
2) This a regional study and by itself doesn't prove nor disprove MWP was global or globally synchronous.
3) Other studies you've cited have shown MWP wasn't necessarily synchronized across China.
So, even if there was a long enough period in part of China to grow tropical plants during the time frame of the MWP this again doesn't "break" the Hockey Stick. It also doesn't demonstrate that the MWP was global, or at least globally synchronous.
@wstevenschneider I've found alot information confirming that the MWP and LIA is a global event. I think it's worth a read. It is long, however it is covering (in abstract form with citations) countries like Asia, Africa, Russia, Arctic, Antarctica, Europe, N. America, and S.America.
@wstevenschneider The tree ring data is mostly from the Bristlecone pine tree, which is practically unaffected by temperature.(Mann should of known this) This is because the trees live in a dry region, they are very susceptible to CO2 fertilization and the CO2 drought resistance effect. Temperature only play a minor role and at high temperatures it is also susceptible to drought which reduces growth. Therefore the temperature growth relation can in fact can be reversed. Cont...
@wstevenschneider The trees respond positive to higher CO2 levels, humidity levels and sunshine but not to temperature. In other words, temperature reconstruction which in large part is based on this tree is perfect if you want to erase The Medieval Warm Period and The Little Ice Age. Even the National Academy of Science has proven the "Hockey Stick" wrong. Not even the corrupt IPCC uses this graph anymore.
@MrOTLChamp "The tree ring data is mostly from the Bristlecone pine tree, which is practically unaffected by temperature."
Wahl and Ammann's (2007) (tinyurl com/yzjbeal) independent assessment of Mann and Bradely's (1999) study (tinyurl com/3zl4mtu) has rebutted the critique by McIntyre and McKitrick (2005) (tinyurl com/3ln6zk4).
Wahl and Ammann (2007) looked at proxy scenarios w/ bristlecone/foxtail pine and w/o. They concluded Mann and Bradely (1999) was valid.
@MrOTLChamp "Even the National Academy of Science has proven the "Hockey Stick" wrong."
I find that very doubtful and suspect there might be some quote mining. Can you provide a link to a NAS member actually saying that, in full context and not edited to appear as if that member were saying something else?
@MrOTLChamp "Not even the ... IPCC uses this graph anymore."
If you mean Mann and Bradely's (1999) graph, then you are correct. Science progresses and we have had a series of new graphs since. Each more accurately reflecting the known information about paleoclimate and modern climate. I think now might be a good time to reinforce the validity and continued use of the Hockey Stick.
@wstevenschneider You can't overlook the fact that Mann is a scientist with a Phd. And therefore,should have known what kind of tree's he would get accurate temperature proxies from. So, it seems he is either a dumb scientist with a Phd,(and I don;t think he's dumb) or he was deliberately trying to create a graph that would have a very flat growth rate as it relates to temperature. Also, his data cuts off from the tree ring proxy and then has the instrument data starting at 1980. Cont....
@MrOTLChamp Mann is an intelligent man and scientists. The recent court decision enforces Mann's honesty as a scientist.
The divergence problem in tree rings of northern latitudes was known as early as 1995 (Jacoby, tinyurl com/64v24gx) and Briffa (1998) (tinyurl com/ya2evbd) verified it. Mann et al (1998) (tinyurl com/5rzqrny) used a multi-proxy network for the NH and added tree rings as an additional proxy. The fact that tree-rings diverge from temps post-1960 is irrelevant because...
Mann et al (1998) was reconstructing the paleoclimatic history of the NH. Post-1960 the other proxy sets did _not_ diverge from temps. Wahl and Ammann (2007) verified that Mann et al's (1998) tree-ring data were valid for temperature reconstruction pre-1960.
The temperatures from the instrumental record show that the trends from the remaining proxies is confirmed by the current record. The claim that Mann was either stupid or dishonest is both spurious and unfounded.
Wheres the rest of the information from the tree rings? His data wasn't obtained in 1980, and I guarantee the tree ring proxy in noway coincided with the instrument data after 1980. Which in my opinion would help to explain, why he was so reluctant to release his data so it could be peer-reviewed. Cont...
@MrOTLChamp I appear to have linked to the wrong paper, Mann and Bradely (1999). It was Mann et al (1998) (tinyurl com/5rzqrny) that McIntyre and McKitrick (2005) tried to refute but was independently verified by Wahl and Ammann's (2007).
The first "Hockey Stick" graph can be found in that paper. If you're looking for Mann et al's (1998) proxy data, well I'm not able to find that at the moment, but I've made an inquiry.
@wstevenschneider I've tried to find the data, but I wasn't able to. If you have a copy, or if you could give me the address please, it would be appreciated. Also, you say his graph is confirmed by other scientist. Do you know if they were able to duplicate it by using the different tree's from the same area?
@MrOTLChamp "Do you know if they were able to duplicate it by using the different tree's from the same area?"
I've provided links, please follow them though some are only available as abstracts. The full articles should contain information about their data and use in the Methodology section and perhaps Discussion section. Each paper also has a list of references used at the end of the article.
@MrOTLChamp I've also found a link to the full article of Mann et al (2008) rather than just its abstract. tinyurl com/446mphh. I hope this proves helpful.
@wstevenschneider And as the IPCC is concerned. I'm assuming you mean the one that used 1/3 of its citations to back up their claims, from newspaper and magazine articles, and student thesis reports and not peer-reviewed literature. I don't know of any science organization that would do such a thing. Obviously the IPCC is more political, than scientific.
There's a book out called the delinquent teenager. You should look into it.
@MrOTLChamp Look, these allegations are getting silly. As for the use of grey literature:
1) Grey literature is critically examined before it is allowed. (BTW, all science has proportion of grey literature).
2) Recently climate scientists have voiced concern over the amount of grey literature the IPCC has included as of late. Steps are being undertaken to correct this oversight as too much grey literature invites hyperbole.
Again, IPCC and Mann have been cleared. Let's move on.
I feel more needs to be said on this. As IPCC and climate scientists are now cleared of charges all that remains is look for the guilty parties behind the Climategate scam.
Here I am of course referring to the guilty parties who actively cracked the IPCC database and the parties who sponsored said cracking. Libel and slander charges are also likely to follow for the parties guilty of lying and quote mining to smear honest scientists.
I just wanted to reiterate my thanks again to ElasticJesusRez for making this video to raise awareness about climate change and also raise awareness about the abuse the denier with all the sock puppet channels does to people who talk about climate change, or point out what he is doing.
If he keeps removing my comment I will have to thank you again, which is fine, I can find a million ways to say thanks and I don't mind saying so!
Thanks.
Nightversionn 3 months ago
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@Nightversionn The climate models are not actually models you know they are spherical crystal devices that when hands are laid on them a swirling mist reveals what will be happening in the future, failing that the backup system is used which employs a china teacup and some old fashioned tea, not the baggy stuff and voila predictions that would have as much bearing on reality as a climatologist riding the train of plenty.
LordMonckton78 1 month ago
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Yes, I'd like to say thanks again to the maker of this video for noticing how the denier/s like to harass anyone who talks about climate change, regular people, by impersonating them and cyber-bullying them.
Thanks from me and a lot of other people they do this to.
Another reason the oil industry needs to go, in my book (they finance this sort of thing obviously)
Nightversionn 3 months ago
Poor poor Jesus. He thinks that illiterate race of LImies who can't make two words rhyme without different spellings. The best of the Limies were sent to Australia, the remainder too stupid to move.
Were you born or hatched?
Stand by Jesus, Nighty wants to kiss your ass.
Of course we know it's all Greenpreach money being spent to fund these self serving idiots. 'scuse retards.
patioperson 3 months ago
@patioperson Why are you flagging Nightversionn's post as spam? Do you disagree with what she says? Does it bother you that she's saying it? Are you a false flagger, Patio?
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
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@patioperson I know you think you are harassing me by removing my comments with your denier sock puppet accounts, however, you actually give me the opportunity to keep thanking ElasticJesusRez for making this video in support of raising awareness about climate change and also about denier abuse.
So thank you as well for the opportunity.
;)
Nightversionn 3 months ago
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Nightversionn 3 months ago
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LordMonckton78 3 months ago
Glad you liked the history lesson, Jesus.
I am of German stock and my Fueher was an honorable, why the fuckin' "h", onerable would do, and no need for a "u".
Anyway, my Kaiser was an honorable admiral of the British Navy. But you rotten Limies took an alliance with the Tsar and boxed us in.
Then the Canucks (racist word) joined with the Aussies (another racist word) and the Anzacs (more racism!) and came to rescue the Limies who bit off more than they could chew. Now poor old UK is history.
patioperson 3 months ago
@patioperson
Oh dearest dearest Patio.
Thank you for that. That's all I needed to know.
Now goodbye and thanks for the fish.
TheElasticJesusRez 3 months ago
Jesus, is operating exactly like Nightly, and I believe is Nightly.
Takes a snapshot, runs to the moderator.
What a fuckin' wimp.
Proposing pseudo-science picked from scraps of gravy train detritus.
These Greenpreach sock accounts congratulate each other, expecting the stupid will believe these are individuals.
It's a scam and now Jesus, er Nightly, has hired a cartoonist to back their ridiculous stance. I suppose younger dumb viewers will believe cartoons over reality. Cow jumps over moon.
patioperson 3 months ago
United Kingdom. What a pretty word. Subjugate the Welsh and Scots and invade Ireland and then crow about a UNITED Kingdom.
George of England, the Tsar of Russia, and the Kaiser of Germany, all cousins started WWI. What a disfunctional family.
And the Elastic Jesus, belonging to the disfunctiona alarmists.
patioperson 3 months ago
@patioperson
Oh please. Don't tempt me. A history lesson. eh?
And pray tell, on which arm of the oppressors doth my wicked soul rest?
And tell me, at which point in your families history was it officially recognised that it was exempt from past indiscretions?
Or did you just land from Alpha Centauri, having no connection to this bloodthirsty family called Homo Sapiens?
Come back once you've grown up & had a history lesson.
TheElasticJesusRez 3 months ago
Jesus, Paki is no more racist than Canuck is a racist term for a Canadian.
PC is the belief that a turd can be picked up by the clean end. Which end do you wish to be spoken to?
Kingdom, that's where the retarded Prince Charles comes from. He wants to come back as a virus and wipe out mankind. Why doesn't he start with that whole racist royal family. Racist is where you get preferential treatment because of your race. English royalty descended from George of Hanover.
You're a bunch of krauts.
patioperson 3 months ago
@patioperson
"You're a bunch of Krauts."
Actually so are you, unless you're not of European stock. Where would you like me to start? The Celts of Austria and Southern France who spread across the whole continent and became Picts, Greeks, Romans, Germanics, Visigoths, Angles, Saxons, Franks, Vikings, Jutes and on and on.
And the greatest irony is that America is but a homecoming to those Celts who split and once again became united - IOW British, Irish, & German.
TheElasticJesusRez 3 months ago
Jesus I knew you were from some country that puts a "u" into words that don't need it. Where off and cough rhyme, where goad and mode don't rhyme. It's been said that the English language was developed by English scholars. I call them idiots. You shouldn't need a dictionary to find the pronunciation, that's the job of spelling.
But why do you have the Paki accent? Don't you speak English?
Mother in law is English. She said, get on a bus in England and you can't understand anyone else.
patioperson 3 months ago
@patioperson
I'm not sure I care for your racist manner so why don't you be a good little boy and go play with your Action Man before I report you.
Get some rest redneck sPam.
TheElasticJesusRez 3 months ago
@TheElasticClara I do like it Clara. But Mark's idea for Pt2 would be better. You & your numerous infestations with a Al Gore enema blowing carbon credits out of Mark's ass and you & your manifestations like Benzeppi, Substanti8, Nightversionn, Yourkids, Randomlaughingman etc shoveling the carbon credits into a group of Wall St bankers pockets. That would be entertaining. Perhaps you all could also be wearing various dildos & carbon credit costumes, would make it funnier. :-) Clara/martyMassa
LordMonckton78 3 months ago
@LordMonckton78
Hmmm. Yet more riveting info from the Cotswold and Vale rubber fanciers association.
TheElasticJesusRez 3 months ago
@TheElasticJesusRez LOL, you know the rag well don't you Clara with a phantom penis?
LordMonckton78 3 months ago
The last decade was posted by the gravy trainers as the warmest because of faulty satellites and surface stations located on pavement.
Remember the NOAA satellites that for years posted temperatures up to 612 degrees and sent the data to the CRU?
You probably don't, but I have a screenshot of Wisconsin which should have dried up the Great Lakes.
And Jesus, Canuck is to Canadians as Paki is to Pakistanis.
Why are you Yanks using a slang word for us realists up here in the ultracold north?
patioperson 3 months ago
@patioperson
Oh deary me!
There you go again, bleating on about research while NOT even bothering to check my nationality.
I'm from the UK, numbnut. That is UNITED KINGDOM, administrative authority over England, Scotland, Wales, and NI.
And by the way, if you can see the NW Passage from your house then I'm equally entitled to see the CAIRN rigs off Illulisat that used to be covered in ice.
Only trouble is, my exaggeration happens to be true.
BTW, the short form IS RACIST.
TheElasticJesusRez 3 months ago
3000 ppm, that's what the intelligent part of humanity wants the CO2 to be.
Since when does Jesus speak for the 99% of us?
And what is wrong with the word Paki?
It's short for Pakistani. Used and accepted all over the world. Take a snapshot of this too.
You sound so much like Nightly, that the drift is Jesus is another sock account of Nighty's. She has so many, bet she can't keep them all straight.
I suppose Jap isn't acceptable for Japanese. It was all during WWII.
PC is just whining.
patioperson 3 months ago
@patioperson
You really are an ignorant island in the middle of nowhere, aren't you?
If 3000ppm is normal for HOMO SAPIENS then 3000 ppm is what it would have been over the past 4 million years when humans evolved over in the Pakistani end of the planet and NOT by Great Bear Lake.
Alas for you it wasn't. Its been a steady 250 ppm for the past 800,000, which ironically coincides with a period of vast human development.
But, if you would rather stay the monkey you never evolved beyond?
TheElasticJesusRez 3 months ago
@TheElasticJesusRez Keep up the great work against this anti-American anti-Western terrorist AGW-denier piece of shit. They are running scared now, and will soon all be locked up for crimes against humanity, for being a threat and danger to nations.
mphello 3 months ago
@mphello Mark said if you had come over to Badsey dressed as the dildo you are for halloween he would have let you perform a trick of shoving a carbon credit up his anus. Your treat would have been Mark expelling a load of carbon credits already stuffed up there by Clara Massa's infestations like the latex nazarene, Bernzeppi, Yourkids, that you could than hand over to Greenman to deliver to the Wall St Carbon gangsters. Oh Mark took a dump in the Montauk chair for you to enjoy
LordMonckton78 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@LordMonckton78
I don't know who the fuck you are, but clearly you are a worthless insane rapist and child molestor that needs to be tortured and executed for the sake of humanity. Guess I'll have to go around telling everyone that sockpuppet account LordMonckton78 is a proven rapist and child molestor, who has multiple felones on his rap sheet and has to report daily as a sex offender.
I don't know who the fuck you're talking about (Mark, Massa, Montauk? ?etc)
mphello 3 months ago
"So glad you mentioned the global cooling deniers who ignore the present drop in temps"
The last decade was the warmest on record. 2005 and 2010 gave 'El Nino spike 98' a run fot its money.
Your argument is fatally flawed. Basically you're saying that K2 isn't high simply because its not as high as Everest.
3000ppm?
Unfortunately for you the rest of humanity prefers CO2 to be at the level its been for the past million years.
You are the village idiot.
TheElasticJesusRez 3 months ago
The message below was posted by PATIOPERSON.
I've also taken a snapshot of this page should the denialist windbag delete the message.
He says -"Very good except it would be better in proper English without the Paki accent."
Need I say anymore about the 'credibility' of our denialist 'friends?'
TheElasticJesusRez 3 months ago
@TheElasticJesusRez Patio succeeds in being a bigot as well as a troll. If only we could have such "talents" on our side! I have to say, I'm envious.
Bravo @patioperson, bravo.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
Very good except it would be better in proper English without the Paki accent.
So glad you mentioned the global cooling deniers who ignore the present drop in temps.
And the harassment of the realists by the alarmists who think gases make a greenhouse when it glasses.
Jesus, I must commend you on one thing, you didn't put the extra "r" in harassment.
Now please refrain from harassing the realists.
The sky is not falling. 3000 ppm CO2 is quite all right, just less than one third of 1%. SFA
TheElasticJesusRez 3 months ago
I appreciate this video and the fact that people have taken notice about the fact these trolls lie online about the climate change, and routinely harass anyone who talks about global warming. They usually target one person at a time in an effort to make them stop talking about climate change.
Thank you for the support and for standing up for the truth, and right and wrong, and highlighting it.
Appreciated.
Nightversionn 3 months ago
Could someone create a video with myself kicking stones down the tracks as the gravy train loaded with alarmists drinking champagne and eating caviar passes me with the mural on the side saying "No Realists Allowed on This Train".
The gravy train will not stop for a denier like me unless I'm able to sneak aboard during one of its refunding stops. The gravy train does have to stop for more funding and the restocking of the caviar.
To ride the Gravy Train you must be a warmist scammer.
patioperson 3 months ago
Very good except it would be better in proper English without the Paki accent.
So glad you mentioned the global cooling deniers who ignore the present drop in temps.
And the harassment of the realists by the alarmists who think gases make a greenhouse when it glasses.
Jesus, I must commend you on one thing, you didn't put the extra "r" in harassment.
Now please refrain from harassing the realists.
The sky is not falling. 3000 ppm CO2 is quite all right, just less than one third of 1%. SFA.
patioperson 3 months ago
Excellent sequel. I laughed out loud at the Benny Hill music, especially upon announcement of the winner:
Nightversion spelled with 6 "n"s, 3 "v"s, and 22 trillion "t"s
ROFLMAO !!!!
Too true ...
Meanwhile, is that solar-cycles song an original? If so, then bravo. If not, I suggest you credit it.
Thanks for all of your work.
substanti8 4 months ago
@substanti8
Thank you.
The song is a parody of Monty Python's Galaxy Song: with a few changes, notably key and bits between verses.
I play the keyboard and the lyrics are entirely my own.
TheElasticJesusRez 3 months ago
@TheElasticJesusRez
"the lyrics are entirely my own."
Excellent. Thanks again.
substanti8 3 months ago
I want to thank you again for making this video about man-made climate change. What could be more important?
But also thank you for exposing how the denier (s) copy my (and several other) people's username in an effort to cyber-bully us so they can shut down discussion about climate change and try to hide what they are doing,
Thanks!
Nightversionn 4 months ago
Thank you !!
Nightversionn 4 months ago
Brilliant explanation of the lag. Classic
rugbyguy59 4 months ago
@rugbyguy59
Thank you.
TheElasticJesusRez 4 months ago
Very good but you realise no matter how many times the lag betwen CO2 and temperature is explained, it we just get brought again, again and again. I still get the 'global warming stopped in 1998' argument thrown at me. Oh well, never mind.
Richard482 4 months ago
@Richard482
Very true mon amis.
They have this strange idea that if a plane rises to 60,000 feet and then levels out at 50,000, it must be safe enough to open the door and go out for a stroll.
El Nino (in this case 1998) will always add a significant spike to the temps, which only goes to show what shit lies ahead, when the sun finally decides to wake up.
TheElasticJesusRez 4 months ago
Way hey! Excellent!
Herecomesthefatlady 4 months ago
@Herecomesthefatlady As usual, the sequel always sucks.
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp
I take you like it then?
TheElasticJesusRez 4 months ago
@TheElasticJesusRez It really lame at best. Try humor.
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp
I take it you like it then.
TheElasticJesusRez 4 months ago
To all the stupid "The earth is cooling" arguments.
tinyurl . c o m/3grt6uw
Get a clue and come back to reality AGW deniers.
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider You morons sure have been quiet since the latest IPCC scandel.
Can't say I blame you.
Maybe you will add another sock account to your collection and pretend it never happened. That it was just a bad dream.
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp
What scandal?
TheElasticJesusRez 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "since the latest IPCC scandel (sic)."
What, you mean the so-called Climategate? The only scandal there were the denier organizations who hacked the data and then manipulated it into something it wasn't.
Idiot.
Btw, how's that global cooling going for you? Your hero, Muller, seems to think that that's a moronic idea now too.
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "Maybe you will add another sock account to your collection"
No thanks, I'm an original. Perhaps this is an example of projection on your part? Must be.
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider
Here's the results of the Berkeley Climate Project They used data from the same weather stations as the Climategate people, but reported that one-third showed cooling — not warming.
Cont....
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp Drop the "Climategate" nonsense as the climate scientists have been cleared in multiple independent inquiries. The only way it applies is to the deniers who hacked the database and quote-mined the e-mails.
sks . to/climategate
"reported that one-third showed cooling — not warming"
Gawd and looking at the NOAA data I see stations that are cooling too! Of course, most of them are warming so that still indicates that the average temps are moving upward.
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider ...cont.
They covered the same land area – less than 30% of the Earth’s surface – with recording stations that are poorly distributed, mainly in US and Western Europe. They state that 70% of US stations are badly sited and don’t meet the standards set by government; the rest of the world is likely worse.
Cont....
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "They state that 70% of US stations are badly sited and don’t meet the standards set by government; the rest of the world is likely worse."
Two things to be dealt with here:
1) The BEST group found no significant urban heating, in fact in more recent data set they found evidence of urban cooling. They also found the avg temp going up.
2) It's mighty presumptuous to believe that the rest of the world's stations are so much worse.
You need to read the BEST paper for yourself.
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "They covered the same land area – less than 30% of the Earth’s surface – with recording stations that are poorly distributed, mainly in US and Western Europe."
And came to the same conclusion, with no evidence of urban heating playing a significant role.
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider ...cont.
Unlike the land surface, the atmosphere showed no warming trend, either over land or over ocean — according to satellites and independent data from weather balloons. This indicates to me that there is something very wrong with the land surface data. And did you know that the climate models, run on super-computers, all show that the atmosphere must warm faster than the surface. What does this tell you?
Cont....
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "Unlike the land surface, the atmosphere showed no warming trend, either over land or over ocean — according to satellites and independent data from weather balloons."
There is warming, you're information is out of date.
sks . to/troposphere
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "you know that the climate models, run on super-computers, all show that the atmosphere must warm faster than the surface"
You distrust the climate models, but you call on them to defend your position. Again, there is warming and your information is out-dated.
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider The "hockey stick graph" is a fake. Plain and simple. It has not been replicated. And I never said I trust the climate models. I already know they are wrong. And climategate, was not investigated by independent sources. They were all hired by the government. Not one scientist that doesn't agree with AGW causing catastrophic temps was allowed to investigate, nor do any of them agree with the terms used in those e-mails.
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "The "hockey stick graph" is a fake. Plain and simple. It has not been replicated."
This statement here alone proves that you're not even a player in this game. What you need to do right now is shut your mouth, do some reading and learn a little bit of science.
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider ....cont. And finally, we have non-thermometer temperature data from so-called “proxies”: tree rings, ice cores, ocean sediments, stalagmites. They don’t show any global warming since 1940!
Cont....
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "tree rings, ice cores, ocean sediments, stalagmites. They don’t show any global warming since 1940!"
Wow, you can't even keep your own arguments straight. The deniers insist there is a divergence since 1960 and they're wrong. Tree rings diverge for as yet undetermined reasons, but other proxies continue to reinforce temperature readings. Earth is warming.
tinyurl . c o m/yd849de
tinyurl . c o m/26cds6r
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider ....cont. The Berkeley results in no way confirm the scientifically discredited Hockeystick graph, which had been so eagerly adopted by climate alarmists. In fact, the Hockeystick authors have never published their temperature results after 1978. The reason for hiding them? It’s likely that their proxy data show no warming either.
Cont....
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "the scientifically discredited Hockeystick graph"
Only in the mind of denial zombies. The Hockey stick is scientifically valid, it's failed refutation isn't.
tinyurl . c o m/26cds6r
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider Peat bog from all over China, Germany, and Ireland, etc. all disprove the BS Hockey stick graph. To even suggest that the hockey stick isn't fake shows you're just a troll. It's impossible because it means there was no MWP..Which we already know happened.
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp Seriously, shut your hole, do some reading and learn the science. You're only coming across more and more ignorant with every word you say.
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider Can't handle the fact that you can't prove me wrong Dickhead? The MWP happened..Not the BS hockey stick moron
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp You're the one making the claim the Hockey Stick, a verified phenomenon found in the peer-reviewed literature, is somehow broken. You're the one who has to prove it.
Where's your verifiable, peer-reviewed evidence supporting your claim?
Honestly, shut your mouth, stop making a bloody fool of yourself, read the scientific literature on the subject and learn a bit of the science.
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider Here you go dumbass. do some research all peer-reviewed, and not just by friends like your peer-review BS papers' Yang et al. (2002) Yafeng et al. (1999) Hong et al. (2000), Xu et al. (2002) Qian and Zhu (2002) Just for starters Got a bunch more too. LMAO
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp I just looked at Yang et al 2002 (tinyurl . c o m/66onpsf)
Let's see. Sporadic warming, to a lesser degree than in the NH, punctuated by cooling periods of equal degree. Wow, if this is your evidence that the hockey stick is broken or that the MWP was global, or at least globally synchronous and all of your evidence is like this, then you're already stumbling.
Once again you need to stop talking, read and learn the science. (eg. actually read the papers your using as evidence)
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider Figures you only look at one. Is that how you do it? No wonder your so missinformed. Let me ask you this, even though you only looked at one of the least temperature readings out of all the ones I gave you...Did it look like a "hockey stick"? LMAO
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "Figures you only look at one. Is that how you do it?"
Yep, you figured it out. :-)
The fact that you provided no links, or article names had _nothing_ to do with it. Don't worry though, I'm a smart lad and I figured it out despite you obfuscation attempts. Please practice better citing in the future.
I don't see you defending the Yang et al article though. As soon as I refuted it you dropped it and moved on. Is this a sort of admission?
Posts on other articles follow.
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider I droppped it? LMAO It proves me right still. Does it look like a hockey stick? Of course not. No true temp graph does. Moron. Try and do better next time. Hockey stick remains a fraud.
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "I droppped it?"
I don't see you defending it.
"It proves me right still."
Please demonstrate how.
"Does it look like a hockey stick?"
You're obsessing with one region because of a graph you think proves something over a graph you hate because it demonstrates the irrefutable evidence.
"No true temp graph does."
Define "true temp graph"
Why do all the graphs, proxies and real temps, when put together still, by and large, resembles the hockey stick?
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp Yafeng et al 1999 (tinyurl . c o m/3msjnq6)
Again, this article doesn't strongly support your "hypothesis" that the Hockey Stick is broken, or that the MWP was global, or at least globally synchronous.
Discussing abstract
1) There are great differences noted between regions in China during the supposed MWP
2) LIA was 60 years earlier in East China than in Guliya Ice Cap
3) third cold event saw a lag in East China behind West China
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp Hong et al 2000 (tinyurl . c o m/3u8cw64)
As with Yafeng et al I'm only able to access the abstract. From the abstract only it is obvious that they were correlating levels of solar irradiance to past climatic changes. Solar irradiance combined with CO2 levels have always been the two major drivers of climate change. Since I only have the abstract available to me I can't comment on how you think that this "breaks" the Hockey Stick or proves the MWP was global or globally synch'd.
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider Just curious: which journal(s) is MrOTLoser referencing?
mphello 3 months ago
@mphello He's _not_, he's using quotes from anti-science blogs (eg: co2science*org, notrickszone*com and c3headlines*com to name a few) and citing the peer-reviewed literature they misrepresent.
Specifically:
co2science
tinyurl com/7qf7ujo
notrickszone
tinyurl com/73a2mqq
c3headlines
tinyurl com/73wvman
It's been instructive to read the articles he cites back to him to show what they're really saying.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp XU et al 2002 (tinyurl . c o m/6yxmcg6)
Again, not strong evidence of a global MWP, or at least one that was globally synchronous. Cooling events occurring during warming events are mentioned so the events weren't exactly synchronized within China either.
It talks a bit out solar forcing and internal variation in the past, but doesn't refute current findings. So it appears that you didn't read this article either.
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp Qian and Zhu 2002 (tinyurl . c o m/3kwgxcc)
I'm only able to access the abstract. Again, however it appears to talk about a lack of synchronization of MWP and LIA between different parts of China let alone different parts of the world. There is some mention of internal variability, but no refutation of current research noted.
Again, this is just an abstract and to believe that the abstract breaks the Hockey Stick, or proves MWP was global, is pure conjecture.
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider You are out of your mind to believe in the infamous "hockey stick" The only question left for you to answer is...Why did they fake it?
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp You still have yet to debunk it. You've failed so far at this point. Most of the papers you've cited hardly do that as all but the last one were all about one region, China. Worse yet, the warming and cooling in that region was hardly synchronous within China let alone the rest of the globe.
You do try hard to play at science, but you continually fail.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@wstevenschneider "A peer-reviewed paper published online today in the journal Geophysical Research Letters shows that drought of Western North America was considerably worse during the Medieval Warming Period than at the end of the 20th century. The paper also shows much more variation and extremes in the drought record over the past 5200 years than since the advent of industrialization and rising CO2 levels in the latter 20th century. "hockey stick" debunked
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp Please proved a link to said paper. I'd love to read it over together with you. I'm sure that the level of your understanding will once again prove illuminating
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@wstevenschneider
Well said.
TheElasticJesusRez 4 months ago
@TheElasticJesusRez Spoken by a truly lonely retard.
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp
Said the sad bastard with nothing better to do than spend his days online fighting a one-man fight against scientists that would eat him alive.
TheElasticJesusRez 3 months ago
@TheElasticJesusRez Heysus, scientist on youtube? Don't make me laugh. You're certainly no scientist. You're lonely. Big difference.
The hockey stick is thoroughly debunked..Why do you think wstevens quit?
MrOTLChamp 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp
debunked by whom?
Lon Chaney? Johnny Weismuller? Coco the Clown? Hissing Sid the Dustbin Lid?
Your hero Richard Muller?
Get out while you're losing. You're becoming the laughing stock of Tubetown.
TheElasticJesusRez 3 months ago
@TheElasticJesusRez Yeah sure heysus. I've already proven that the MWP happened all over the world. All of China, Germany, Ireland and Canada. Therefore, the "hockey stick" is fake. Just like your so-called 97% of scientist agree BS.
MrOTLChamp 3 months ago
@TheElasticJesusRez I really do appreciate you making this video, and you've made others. It is indeed incredibly hard work in so many ways.
Thanks for "shining the light" on the deniers and how they cyber-bully me and others in an effort to silence people for merely talking about climate change, and telling the truth as they see it!
Nightversionn 3 months ago
@TheElasticJesusRez If the denier/s tries to remove my comment (by thumbing it down with countless sock accounts and they have done to my comments before), that's OK, I can think of well over athousand ways to thank you if need be!
;)
Nightversionn 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "Why do you think wstevens quit?"
Here we have a demonstration of typical denialist hypocrisy: Immediate response to a deniers post is required or they claim an instant win.
Honestly, I have a life outside of YT. For example: a wife, kids, friends, a job, etc...
However, if YT's all that you have then more power to you. After all, I'm not about knocking lifestyle choices, if you know what I mean? ;-)
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@wstevenschneider This one is in Germany, showing the same ht tp : / / notrickszone. co m / 2011 / 10/02/ german - pea t - bog -temperature - reconstruction - shows - strong - central - european - variations /
This one is from Canada ht tp : // ww w .c3headlines . com /2011/06/ canadian - lakes - past - water -levels - refutes - both - manns - hockey - stick - climate - ipccs - unprecedented - modern - .h t ml
MrOTLChamp 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp Temperature variability at Durres Maar, Germany during the Migration Period and at High Medieval Times, inferred from stable carbon isotopes of Sphagnum cellulose. Moschen et al. 2011.
tinyurl . c o m/6l6wwux
In 5.2 Estimating the past growing season temperature variability at Durres Maar the researcher discuss conditions in the common era. The Roman Optimum is barely detected, the temps around the middle ages quoted as above average. In paragraph 6...
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@wstevenschneider Regarding Moschen et al. 2011. The temperature graph (Fig 6) clearly shows a 4 degC swing from the 6th century to the 10th century. indicating the MWP, and a almost 4deg C drop over the next 2 centuries heading into the LIA.
MrOTLChamp 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp Keep in mind those 4 degC temp variations (60 year running means) are regional. The central euro construction (60 year running means - also regional) shows a much less marked temperature shift. It's also important to note that the temps of the German study weren't consistently above average, only above average in the mean. The high variability in the dataset demonstrates decades of cooler temps vs decades of warmer temps.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp (cont...)
There are actually regions that experienced cooling during the supposed MWP, regions that became more arid while temps remained constant, other regions that experienced an increase in moisture while temps remained constant and even regions where there was little, if any, noticeable change at all. I will be presenting some of these studies in the future, but all together they suggest that the MWP was either not global, or at least not globally synchronous.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp (cont...)
the authors discuss how their "results confirm regional inconsistency in natural climate variability". They go on to mention "Such is known from modern meteorological observations indicating that decadal scale climate variability is no global nor northern hemispheric phenomenon, rather temperature trends vary by region and season. For example, while current warming and accompanied reduced sea ice cover is..."
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp (cont...)
"prevalent over most of the Arctic, some areas, such as Greenland, appear to be cooling."
Fig 6. superimposes their modeled data on other data from proxies and real temperature readings. What comes out, in principle, resembles the supposedly broken Hockey Stick.
In the conclusion they state: "posit. The reconstructed GST shows relevant centennial and decadal scale variability. From the 4th to the 7th century AD a cold, and presumably also wet, ..."
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp (cont...)
"phase with below-average temperature is reconstructed which is in accordance with the so-called European Migration Period marking the transition from the Roman Period to the Early Middle Ages. Despite an overall overestimation of the most prominent warm phases, during High Medieval Times above-average temperatures are obvious. Most notably, temperatures were not low or high in general, rather high frequency temperature variability with multiple..."
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp (cont...)
"narrow intervals of below- and above average temperatures lasting a few decades is demonstrated. In contrast, a pronounced Late Roman Climate Optimum often described as similar warm or even warmer as medieval times could not be detected. The reconstructed GST shows a remarkable agreement with the Central European temperature reconstruction based on tree-ring datasets and is also in accordance with..."
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp (cont...)
"climate reconstructions on the basis of lake sediments and glacier advances and retreats."
So the temps around the Medieval era weren't exceptionally high, but there was a high degree of variability within the region itself. The authors also spoke about how there is little synchronization within the NH let alone the globe (para 6, sect 5.2)
This article does little to "break" the Hockey Stick, or prove the MWP was global or even globally synchronous.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp A 5200year record of freshwater availability for region in western North America fed by highelevation runoff. Wolfe et al. 2011
The data corresponding to drought conditions in the Medieval era in Alberta are within, but fall short of the time frame of the MWP (950 - 1250 AD by the Wiki). Whatever was causing the drought in Alberta at the time didn't have the same duration although it does appear to have started at the same time (Fig 2)....
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@wstevenschneider The drought of Western North America was considerably worse during the Medieval Warming Period than at the end of the 20th century. The paper also shows much more variation and extremes in the drought record over the past 5200 years than since the advent of industrialization and rising CO2 levels in the latter 20th century. Nobody said the durations of the MWP had to be the same everywhere, but it again clearly shows climate was affected around the world.
MrOTLChamp 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "The drought of Western North America was considerably worse during the Medieval Warming Period than at the end of the 20th century." Indeed, one must also keep in mind that the mid-holocene was a 2 Ka period that was about as warm as pre-20th century warmth, but not as warm as current day. As time progresses and temperatures climb, Western NA is bound for much drier times.
tinyurl c o m/3kwrroq
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp (cont...)
"Nobody said the durations of the MWP had to be the same everywhere, but it again clearly shows climate was affected around the world."
That sounds a little like you're now saying that the MWP wasn't necessarily globally synchronous. If so, then that is one point we do agree on.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp (cont...)
Note also that there is no mention of temps. Now this doesn't mean that temps weren't above average at that time, but the researchers don't specifically say that. In para 4, sect 5.2 of the Moschen et al. 2011. the researchers mentioned dry conditions as opposed to warm conditions caused a medieval retreat of glaciers in the alps. A similar phenomenon may have occurred in Alberta too. This is a question one would have to put to...
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp (cont...)
the corresponding author of the Wolfe et al. 2011. paper. The authors of the paper do state several times that the current global warming is causing water levels to decrease in our time.
Since the sun is quiet ATM this warming must be driven by CO2, excess CO2 caused by human industry. So again, another paper that doesn't "break" the Hockey Stick, nor prove that the MWP was global or globally synchronous.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp Link to A 5200year record of freshwater availability for region in western North America fed by highelevation runoff. Wolfe et al. 2011
tinyurl . c o m/4xahuld
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "In fact, the Hockeystick authors have never published their temperature results after 1978."
Nonsense, the data about the divergence has been in the peer-reviewed literature since 1995 and discussed openly in the third and fourth IPPC reports.
tinyurl . c o m/5rrz5dx
"It’s likely that their proxy data show no warming either."
Too much speculation, not enough real data from you.
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider Cont....
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider One last word: In their scientific paper, submitted for peer review, the Berkeley scientists disclaim knowing the cause of the temperature increase reported by their project. However, their research paper comments: “The human component of global warming may be somewhat overestimated.” I commend them for their honesty and skepticism.
S. Fred Singer is professor emeritus at the University of Virginia and director of the Science & Environmental Policy Project.
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "the Berkeley scientists disclaim knowing the cause of the temperature increase reported by their project."
1) The study wasn't about discovering the cause.
2) The study was to determine if urban heating was having a significant effect on station temperature reading. It was not found to be significant and urban cooling was found in the more recent data sets.
3) Average temperatures of the stations indicated rising temperatures.
wstevenschneider 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider Their efforts revealed, first of all, that the MWP had indeed held sway on the Chinese mainland over the period AD 700-1400, peaking at about AD 900. And the eight researchers report that phenological data from east China (Ge et al., 2006) and tree-ring records from west China
Cont....
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider ...cont. (Yang et al., 2000) also indicate that "the temperature on the Chinese mainland was distinctly warmer during the MWP." In fact, they say MWP temperatures were as much as "0.9-1.0°C higher than modern temperatures (Zhang, 1994)."
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider Secondly, with respect to the last 14,000 years, Hong et al. write that "sudden cooling events, such as the Older Dryas, Inter-Allerod, Younger Dryas, and nine ice-rafted debris events of the North Atlantic" -- which are described by Stuiver et al. (1995) and Bond et al. (1997, 2001) --Cont...
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider ....cont. "are almost entirely reiterated in the temperature signals of Hani peat cellulose δ18O." And they state that "these cooling events show that the repeatedly occurring temperature cooling [and warming] pattern not only appeared in the North Atlantic Region in the high latitudes, but also in the Northwest Pacific Region in the middle latitudes," Cont...
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@wstevenschneider ....cont. indicating that the recurring warming and cooling did indeed occur "outside the European region" and that it truly was "a common phenomenon."
Again, no hockey stick
MrOTLChamp 4 months ago
@MrOTLChamp Nice summation, of someone else's thoughts. However, whom are you citing? Also, those papers would be interesting to read together (we already have seen some and they didn't quite say what you thought they did). Please provide links to said articles or at least provide the names of the articles in this comment.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@wstevenschneider This link shows multiple locations in China all showing climate conditions aligning with the MWP and LIA. ht tp : // ww w .co2science. org / subject / m / summaries / mw pchina . p hp
MrOTLChamp 3 months ago
@wstevenschneider Hong et al. (2000) The study area was relatively cold between 4000 and 2600 BC. Then it warmed fairly continuously until it reached the maximum warmth of the record about 1600 BC, after which it fluctuated about this warm mean for approximately 2000 years. Cont...
MrOTLChamp 3 months ago
@wstevenschneider Starting about AD 350, however, the climate began to cool, with the most dramatic cold associated with three temperature minima centered at about AD 1550, 1650 and 1750, corresponding to the most severe cold of the Little Ice Age. Of particular note is the authors' finding of "an obvious warm period represented by the high delta18O from around AD 1100 to 1200 which may correspond to the Medieval Warm Epoch of Europe." Cont...
MrOTLChamp 3 months ago
@wstevenschneider They also report that "at that time, the northern boundary of the cultivation of citrus tree (Citrus reticulata Blanco) and Boehmeria nivea (a perennial herb), both subtropical and thermophilous plants, moved gradually into the northern part of China, and it has been estimated that the annual mean temperature was 0.9-1.0°C higher than at present."
Huh, tropical tree's moving north in China, can only mean warmer temps.
MrOTLChamp 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp If you have an available copy of the Hong et al 2000 study available please provide it so that we can all access it and decide what it says for ourselves.
Note several things:
1) The timings of the MWP-LIA in your summary although close, but not quite what is canon for those periods
2) This a regional study and by itself doesn't prove nor disprove MWP was global or globally synchronous.
3) Other studies you've cited have shown MWP wasn't necessarily synchronized across China.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp (cont...)
So, even if there was a long enough period in part of China to grow tropical plants during the time frame of the MWP this again doesn't "break" the Hockey Stick. It also doesn't demonstrate that the MWP was global, or at least globally synchronous.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@wstevenschneider I've found alot information confirming that the MWP and LIA is a global event. I think it's worth a read. It is long, however it is covering (in abstract form with citations) countries like Asia, Africa, Russia, Arctic, Antarctica, Europe, N. America, and S.America.
MrOTLChamp 3 months ago
@wstevenschneider The tree ring data is mostly from the Bristlecone pine tree, which is practically unaffected by temperature.(Mann should of known this) This is because the trees live in a dry region, they are very susceptible to CO2 fertilization and the CO2 drought resistance effect. Temperature only play a minor role and at high temperatures it is also susceptible to drought which reduces growth. Therefore the temperature growth relation can in fact can be reversed. Cont...
MrOTLChamp 3 months ago
@wstevenschneider The trees respond positive to higher CO2 levels, humidity levels and sunshine but not to temperature. In other words, temperature reconstruction which in large part is based on this tree is perfect if you want to erase The Medieval Warm Period and The Little Ice Age. Even the National Academy of Science has proven the "Hockey Stick" wrong. Not even the corrupt IPCC uses this graph anymore.
MrOTLChamp 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "The tree ring data is mostly from the Bristlecone pine tree, which is practically unaffected by temperature."
Wahl and Ammann's (2007) (tinyurl com/yzjbeal) independent assessment of Mann and Bradely's (1999) study (tinyurl com/3zl4mtu) has rebutted the critique by McIntyre and McKitrick (2005) (tinyurl com/3ln6zk4).
Wahl and Ammann (2007) looked at proxy scenarios w/ bristlecone/foxtail pine and w/o. They concluded Mann and Bradely (1999) was valid.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "Even the National Academy of Science has proven the "Hockey Stick" wrong."
I find that very doubtful and suspect there might be some quote mining. Can you provide a link to a NAS member actually saying that, in full context and not edited to appear as if that member were saying something else?
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "the corrupt IPCC"
Incorrect, the IPCC has been cleared of all charges. Incidentally, Michael Mann as recently been cleared of all charges as well. tinyurl com/4ymfgv6
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "Not even the ... IPCC uses this graph anymore."
If you mean Mann and Bradely's (1999) graph, then you are correct. Science progresses and we have had a series of new graphs since. Each more accurately reflecting the known information about paleoclimate and modern climate. I think now might be a good time to reinforce the validity and continued use of the Hockey Stick.
Haung 2000 tinyurl com/3arux4s
Smith 2006 tinyurl com/jewmm
Oerlemans 2005 tinyurl com/3e2ew5x
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@wstevenschneider You can't overlook the fact that Mann is a scientist with a Phd. And therefore,should have known what kind of tree's he would get accurate temperature proxies from. So, it seems he is either a dumb scientist with a Phd,(and I don;t think he's dumb) or he was deliberately trying to create a graph that would have a very flat growth rate as it relates to temperature. Also, his data cuts off from the tree ring proxy and then has the instrument data starting at 1980. Cont....
MrOTLChamp 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp Mann is an intelligent man and scientists. The recent court decision enforces Mann's honesty as a scientist.
The divergence problem in tree rings of northern latitudes was known as early as 1995 (Jacoby, tinyurl com/64v24gx) and Briffa (1998) (tinyurl com/ya2evbd) verified it. Mann et al (1998) (tinyurl com/5rzqrny) used a multi-proxy network for the NH and added tree rings as an additional proxy. The fact that tree-rings diverge from temps post-1960 is irrelevant because...
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp (cont..)
Mann et al (1998) was reconstructing the paleoclimatic history of the NH. Post-1960 the other proxy sets did _not_ diverge from temps. Wahl and Ammann (2007) verified that Mann et al's (1998) tree-ring data were valid for temperature reconstruction pre-1960.
The temperatures from the instrumental record show that the trends from the remaining proxies is confirmed by the current record. The claim that Mann was either stupid or dishonest is both spurious and unfounded.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@wstevenschneider
Wheres the rest of the information from the tree rings? His data wasn't obtained in 1980, and I guarantee the tree ring proxy in noway coincided with the instrument data after 1980. Which in my opinion would help to explain, why he was so reluctant to release his data so it could be peer-reviewed. Cont...
MrOTLChamp 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp I appear to have linked to the wrong paper, Mann and Bradely (1999). It was Mann et al (1998) (tinyurl com/5rzqrny) that McIntyre and McKitrick (2005) tried to refute but was independently verified by Wahl and Ammann's (2007).
The first "Hockey Stick" graph can be found in that paper. If you're looking for Mann et al's (1998) proxy data, well I'm not able to find that at the moment, but I've made an inquiry.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@wstevenschneider I've tried to find the data, but I wasn't able to. If you have a copy, or if you could give me the address please, it would be appreciated. Also, you say his graph is confirmed by other scientist. Do you know if they were able to duplicate it by using the different tree's from the same area?
MrOTLChamp 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "Do you know if they were able to duplicate it by using the different tree's from the same area?"
I've provided links, please follow them though some are only available as abstracts. The full articles should contain information about their data and use in the Methodology section and perhaps Discussion section. Each paper also has a list of references used at the end of the article.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp I've also found a link to the full article of Mann et al (2008) rather than just its abstract. tinyurl com/446mphh. I hope this proves helpful.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@wstevenschneider And as the IPCC is concerned. I'm assuming you mean the one that used 1/3 of its citations to back up their claims, from newspaper and magazine articles, and student thesis reports and not peer-reviewed literature. I don't know of any science organization that would do such a thing. Obviously the IPCC is more political, than scientific.
There's a book out called the delinquent teenager. You should look into it.
MrOTLChamp 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp Look, these allegations are getting silly. As for the use of grey literature:
1) Grey literature is critically examined before it is allowed. (BTW, all science has proportion of grey literature).
2) Recently climate scientists have voiced concern over the amount of grey literature the IPCC has included as of late. Steps are being undertaken to correct this oversight as too much grey literature invites hyperbole.
Again, IPCC and Mann have been cleared. Let's move on.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "There's a book out called the delinquent teenager. You should look into it"
Indeed I will.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp Mann 2008 tinyurl com/424tkmq
Spielhagen 2011 tinyurl com/3v2cfxx
As you can see, the Hockey Stick has not been refuted, but is verified over and over again.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp "Not even the corrupt IPCC"
I feel more needs to be said on this. As IPCC and climate scientists are now cleared of charges all that remains is look for the guilty parties behind the Climategate scam.
Here I am of course referring to the guilty parties who actively cracked the IPCC database and the parties who sponsored said cracking. Libel and slander charges are also likely to follow for the parties guilty of lying and quote mining to smear honest scientists.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
@wstevenschneider Sorry forgot to leave the address. ht tp: / / theclimatetruth. org / science / observations - temperature - records / past - 1000-years /
MrOTLChamp 3 months ago
@MrOTLChamp Thank you for that link, I'll be sure to exam the articles it cites as I'm able to.
wstevenschneider 3 months ago