really? Really? REALLY? A troll says what? Or are you really that delusional? Try this next time, pull your Desktop up WHILE the demo is running. Good luck ST guy.
Amiga ball = 3D, ST ball = 2D ... so this video just displays the fact that the ST has to resort to tricks just to emulate something a computer, 5 years older than it's self can do.
@mavlok Agreed. It's not that Atari didn't have decent engineers, they had pretty much the best in the industry outside of Xerox. But, management ignored them. The Lorraine graphics chip, which formed the heart of original Amiga system was designed by an Atari engineer, Jay Miner. He originally promoted the Lorraine idea to the management at Atari but they had no interest in using it, so he left. Atari made good systems though, despite, not because of, their executives.
people who insist that an STE is superior on graphics and sound (even) than a simple Amiga 500 are either deaf or blind.... just go click on any video on your right and compare games and demos... hey the real ones, not silly comparisons like this one.... come on get serious for a liitle!
@ndial7 Yeapekae ... An Amiga vs ST war in 2011, I love that... Some comments: Amiga have a 7.14 Mhz 68000, and ST have a 8Mhz processor ... ST is faster (ok GLUE force each instruction to be 4 cycles aligned vs 2 cycles for amiga ...). ST video memory is interlaced it's better to make some chunky stuffs using MOVEP instruction. ST win for textured 3D object :)
@ndial7 The Amiga definitely had better gaming graphics (DTP Mono on the ST was awesome) than the STE, but the STE did have better sound. Not only could the STE sample at higher rates, but the YM2149 Sound chip could be used at the same time, but now it could be output in Stereo along with the DMA sound.
@10p6 I only ever had an STFM and amiga 500+ but Wasn't the STE sample sound limited to just 2 channels? meaning that standard 4 channel amiga mod style music would have to be premixed in software, so 4 or 8 channel music ala amiga would start to eat into cpu time. that said, STE was clocked slightly faster, so i guess it would have been possible in games and demos to achieve sort of parity with amiga in terms of sound/cpu time, with the choice of exceeding it if more cpu time was dedicated.
@Rebelli0nUK The STE had two DMA hardware channels that could sample upto 50 Khz, however the system allowed it to easy output 8 and 16 channels through software. Another part is the STE could also pan the 3 channels of the YM2149 sound chip too. So technically it has 5 sound channels altogether.
@Rebelli0nUK ... I would have to go check on that, but I'm pretty sure it was 4-channel same as the miggy, even with the same all-or-nothing sample panning problems. It was Atari's attempt at going toe-to-toe with Commodore. Too bad they never shoved in some kind of multi colour mode (ie sacrifice a little more RAM for an extra bitplane or two... 32/64 simultaneous colours...) in there... nor killed off the STFM immediately so the STE's capabilities would get more programmer love.
Boing demo was on Amiga at 1986.... making a silly demo on a STE 5-6 years after and comparing those two makes me think what happened on your brains dudes?
This is what I see: Amiga is calculating geometry and rendering polygons at real time. Atari is moving a bitmap layer over another layer while changing the color palette. Winner: Amiga.
Erm if the st boing demo is better why have they taken a sample from a sountracker module from the amiga. It's the axel F mod. One of the first soundtracker mods ever.
Oh, I forgot many others... but one that really must be mentioned is the Atari STe does not even support gfx overscan, so images are not fullscreen - they have a border, unlike the Amiga.
Sure the amiga was a more capable machine but the Atari ST was a real nice machine and for the price it was selling for it was the best thing out there.
Erm the Amiga boing ball demo was written on a prototype 84 board for some show....STE is 6 years later.....bit like comparing Atari 400 game to 1985/86 Marble Madness game on Amiga then ;o)
PS STE can only play 2 sample channels at fixed speeds, Amiga plays them at any speed. Also STE has a border around 320x200 standard 16 colour screen. Amiga has 64 colours, no border and up to 384x576 low-res mode. Shadow of the Beast comparison says it all :)
@StayTogetherOnePiece - No, I still enjoy using my A600, and A4000D over my MegaST4 and Falcon. I still have them and use them to this day. I'm sort of a retro nut.
The Amiga "boing" demo was created in 1985. The Atari STE hardware didn't even exist until 5 years later, and I believe the Atari demo shown in this video was created in the early 90s. This shows just how revolutionary the original Amiga hardware was at the time it was released. It took a long time for other platforms to catch up.
I had the boing demo on atari st that looked exactly as amiga version, EXCEPT it had no sampled sound and no chess on the background, but otherwise was identical.
So you are compared the wrong versions.BTW the demo used some 20kb code or so (or maybe 5, dont remember), tiny thing.
All that said, I still prefer my Amiga 600, and A4000D to my Atari MegaST4 and my Falcon. There just seems to be more software, and games on the Amiga than I can find for my Atari computers.
@helldog3105 Sure you did! The MegaST was a fine machine, but the Falcon just was a commercial desaster (== no software) inspite of the potential hardware! Damn you Atari! What about a little marketing for this great machine :o(
With a little bit of work you could display the entire palette of 4096 colors onscreen with either machine. The major difference between ST and Amiga computers was based on the custom chips in each. They both had pluses and minuses. Atari had much faster disk access. With built in hard drive access speed up to 10MB/s. The Western Digital chip increased disk speed by about 20% versus the amiga
One of the things that a lot of people are glossing over is that the close quality in games usually stemmed from the fact that games were created on the Atari then ported to the Amiga. The STe finally had the same palette size as the Amiga and had better sound like the Amiga, it still had a standard of 32 colors on screen, where by that time Amigas could do 64 color EHB mode, and those max colors don't include palette tricks on either.
boing demo has been realized 24 hours before the first show that introduce the Amiga 500 in 1987 (check please for the year). That versus is stupid, keep another demo.
Lol, this is one of the most pathetic comparisons I have ever seen. :D ST fans need every straw they can cling to to sustain the illusion that the ST is in any way better than the Amiga. This is easily helped by showing them games like Jim Power, which never ever could be reproduced on a stock 68000 plus 16 colour framebuffer like the atari ST.
Still, even the first generation Amiga, is superior to the STe in every single way.
This could easliy have been done on an Amiga 1000 while multitasking, having more colors and playing an ALIASING FREE version of the same mod used on the STe.
There's even a version for the Coco3 that is more impressive than the original Amiga boing demo. Does that prove the Coco3 is superior to the Amiga?
ALL THAT IS THINGS WITH NO POINT(SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH) IM BOTH MACHINES DIFFERENTTIME FANATIC.
BUT THIS COMPARE ISUSELESS.ATARIGAMESHAVE WORSTMUSICONSTANDONSTEHAS ALMOSTAMIGA (3 STEREOCHANNELS)BUT AT 50 KHZ NOT 44,1ON AMIGA.GRAPHICS ONAMIGA BETTER THAN STE BECAUSE HAS MORE PARALLAXSCROLLINGTHAN STE AND OTHERS.ATARI ST/STEDEMOSCENE IS BETTER.UTILITY ATARI ST SCENE IS BETTER.BUT GAMES ARE BETTER ON AMIGA ALTHOUGH I LIKE ST CHIP CRAPPY SOUNDFANATIC
That Atari ball bounces like theres no physics. I don't know why Atarists always wanted to prove? Amiga was better. That's obvious. Of course it doesn't mean Atari was bad.
@pumpum800 j'ai eu les deux bécanes (et pourtant je suis + atariste qu'amiguiste), et il est vrai que les deux séquences ne sont pas comparables. sans être codeur, la séquence amiga fait appel à des polygones alors que celle sur STE a recours au bitmap classique.
la comparaison est d'autant plus idiote que le ST avait pour avantage sur Amiga une meilleure gestion de la 3D. une manière de raviver le légendaire duel Atari/Amiga
You are not showing the two biggest parts of the Amiga demo, the screen dragging and multitasking instances of a number of them running at the same time without skipping a beat. That is what the Amiga demo was about, not about bouncing a spinning 3D ball with shadow - almost any computer can do that.
Seems to me like these two demos both get something different right. The Amiga's demo is more technically impressive in that one can actually multitask well while running it, but the STe demo seems more pleasing to look at and hear.
Does anyone know the exact name of the STe demo, anyway?
Everybody seems to forget you could multitask when running the boing demo on the amiga. You could run more then 10 at the same time and play with workbench!
Puff lo primero el video de la pelota rebotante de amiga fue programado para su presentacion, el de atari seguro que mucho tiempo despues, ademas que la version amiga tiene rotacion y el de atari simplemente es un circulo rebotando sin mas.
Cuando quieras demotrar algo elige bien los videos.
On another video I was watching which was a interview of the programmers of atari on you tube here it showed the amiga version running on Atari st computer in the interview I saw
The Amiga boing was still better then the STE one despite being produced many years before the STE one. How about you show everything else that could run whilst the Amiga boing was running and the screen dragging without missing a beat because that was what this demo was all about.
I find this comparison to be slightly unfair. This boing demo was built for the VERY first Workbench, VERY first Kickstart, and VERY first commercially-available Amiga. The STe was created long after this one, so of course it'd be better. Like comparing a DOS game to an Amiga game.
Its funny how the old rivalries are still very much alive. Some of the comments on other so called comparison videos are quite ferocious. Bit sad really...you'd think we would have all grown up a bit by now. :-S Nice to see some of the old games and demos though. Thanks for that.
Wow, that proves a lot. Showing an old slapped together demo on the original 1st generation Amiga.... versus a demo made 7 years later for the 2nd generation STe.
So I guess the next comparison will be Super Startdust (1994) on an AGA Amiga vs Blasteroids (1988) on the St? :)
@JasperAbraxxious The Atari STE came out two years after the A500, and the demo came out in 1990, not 1996. The A500 had higher resolution and more displayable colors from day one, but the ST/E was always faster with 3D. The A500's 450 Polygons per second is pretty intense. If you want the real comparison, compare the A1200 and the Falcon 030. The Falcon trounces all over the A1200. The STE demo is better.
@JasperAbraxxious Should do a comparison between Super Stardust AGA and Super Stardust HD on the PS3. OK, the PS3 completely owns the Amiga version, but when you think that there's 16 years between them, the graphics haven't really changed that much (although I did only play the demo on the PS3).
@JasperAbraxxious Hmm, Check out this on youtube 'Amiga versus Atari - Computer Chronicle part 3' And that is without the Amigas advanced hardware and blitter. So sad Amiga
@meowmmmmm Both systems had strong and weak points. The ST's built-in MIDI ports were cool, but it had a much lower color palette than the original Amiga, and it did not multitask. Also, the original ST sound was more like a C64 than an Amiga. Later ST models compared more favorably.
@Foebane72 I'm otherwise part of the ST faithful, and love the YM sound... but I have to concede on that point. We'd have loved to have had a SID...
And this demo is pretty disappointing really. All that bouncing Atari ball was, was a multi colour sprite. The Amiga one was a real time rendered 3D model IIRC? And it could easily have played that music in the background if anyone had thought to do it.
The STe COULD easily exceed the Boing demo, but this particular example doesn't, really.
@JasperAbraxxious Oh and if you are going to compare the AGA chipset, then compare it to the Falcon. That will beat any retail Commodore ever produced. For years, the ST and STE did a pretty close copy of games that took the Amiga specialized hardware to do.
@meowmmmmm - sorry, but the "mighty" videl chipset, whilst a well designed piece of hardware did not "beat" aga as you say. Both had pros and cons.
The videl had a dsp, but aga had a much larger colour palette and higher resolution screenmodes.
Oh, and NO st/ste games came close to replicating even ECS quality visuals. Check out the valiant attempt at an st version of Shadow of the Beast for example.
Better still, compare the last generation ECS Amiga games to last gen st/ste.
@JasperAbraxxious Videl did not have a DSP, the Falcon did. The Amiga had a higher color pallet, and could display 18bpp over the Falcons 16bpp, but AGA could only do it in HAM mode. Further more, the average human eye can only tell 8,000 shades of color, so its useless anyway.
SOTB was a poor written game for the ST, for that matter Amiga too. A version that was written for the STE would have been just as good if not better. The STE also had more advanced sound.
@meowmmmmm Well of course the Videl chip itself was seperate to the DSP, I worded that wrongly. I meant the entire Falcon chipset, often referred to as the Videl chipset had a DSP.
More to the point, I think you are a little confused. The AGA Amigas have a full 24bit palette, not 18bit. For that matter, the Videl supports 18bit, not 16. The human eye can EASILY tell the difference between 16bit and 24bit - try changing your screenmode to 16 bit and see the colour banding.
@JasperAbraxxious The Falcon has 18BPP palette, and 16BPP true color mode. It could display screen modes much higher than Atari advertised (Did that to keep compatibility with ST and TT.) Obviously the 1280x1024 x 256 colors mentioned above was slow, but I used mine at that res in 16 colors all the time. (Not bad for 1993) The "average" human eye can tell about 8000 shades if they are all next to each other. Why waste CPU time on colors that you cannot even see. 16 Bit mode is fine.
@meowmmmmm - Again, you are very confused. The STE has 8bit dma pcm sound - exactly the same as the very first Amiga... except the Amiga supported 4 channel without having to mix down, the Ste only has two channel. :)
Even the Falcon, a nice machine, had a crap OS (did not even multitask), poor cpu (bus crippled so it was slower than your average 020!) a much smaller colour palette, lower resolution screenmodes. Need I go on? Ataris are great machines, but theyre not the be all and end all.
@JasperAbraxxious he STE Sound had a frequency 2x higher than Amiga, the two channels were software programmable for more channels, and it could mix and balance the 3 channel Yamaha chip at the same time.
The 16 bit bus on the Falcon was a bit crappy, but other parts of it were much faster than other systems. It was not slower than a 020. With a VGA adapter, the Falcon could display 1280x1024 in 256 colors, which was very high for the time. The ST, STE, TT and Falcon had Multitos
@JasperAbraxxious The STE demo came out in 1989. As for the '2nd Generation' ST, other than the sound system, the pallet size increased from 512 colors to 4096, and a Blitter was added and no one used the Blitter anyway.
So in all reality, the Demo runs on a system virtually identical to the original ST, and only two years after the Amiga Boing demo, not 7 years.
@10p6 : The STe WAS the 2nd generation ST, just as AGA was the 2nd generation Amiga. The Ste had DMA, vastly improved sound, a blitter, increased colour palette, extra joyports, upgradeable ram etc. If it wasnt the next generation ST, then what was it?! This demo would struggle to run on an ST as it uses the blitter extensively, and by the way, the Amiga boing demo was made in 84, so it is 5 years apart. For some reason I thought this STe demo was from 91.
@JasperAbraxxious I disagree with regards to the extensive use of the Blitter. A version of this demo exists for the ST which has lower quality mono sampled sound, but looks very similar.
@JasperAbraxxious arguably, the amiga 500+ / ECS chipset was the 2nd generation amiga, and is the closest parallel to the STE, , and the AGA series the 3rd, sitting alongside the atari falcon.
@Rebelli0nUK ... Was the AGA the one in the A1200? If so... it's much the same sitch as the A500 vs the ST :)
Miggy had the better graphics modes, and ultimately better memory & expansion capabilities, but ran slower (and, this time, even with a less capable CPU overall, 020 vs 030), lacked the trick DSP, and tended to come with less RAM as default. Swings and roundabouts.
You missed the point of the Amiga's boing. The main point was to show multitasking of the operating system, the second was to show phisics that rules the move of the ball, the third was to show graphic capabilities. In fact, the atari demo have more colors, but do you know the year of the production? The Amiga Boing is January 1984.
@Scopie33 Check this youtube video 'Amiga versus Atari - Computer Chronicle part 3' The ST (not STE) shows the same bouncing ball that the Amiga did around the same time as the Amiga demo was created. And that was without all the 'Advanced hardware that the Amiga has.'
@Scopie33 Well I've never programmed on either, but I would guess the rotation of the checks is achieved through palette rotation of a static image, which is technically the same as what's going on with the Atari ball and its rainbow colouring.
You could run the ST demo on an Atari 400. No joke.
domrep1984 6 days ago
really? Really? REALLY? A troll says what? Or are you really that delusional? Try this next time, pull your Desktop up WHILE the demo is running. Good luck ST guy.
domrep1984 6 days ago
Amiga ball = 3D, ST ball = 2D ... so this video just displays the fact that the ST has to resort to tricks just to emulate something a computer, 5 years older than it's self can do.
AzumiRM 1 month ago 2
With a wonderful 30 seconds of the title. You don't need to do that, it's written at the top
happyblackness 1 month ago
Fuck this. I wanna see it on the Timex/Sinclair!
Kg277 1 month ago
amiga 500 was better than the ste, look at state of the art demo, it was on a little floppy disk, the ste wouldnt be able to that using a hardrive
Robertdub2006 1 month ago
I'm a bit confused. Which one is this video claiming is the more impressive demo?
slugnbozo 3 months ago
Meh... the STe was classic case of too little, too late. The Tramiels ruined Atari.
mavlok 3 months ago
@mavlok Agreed. It's not that Atari didn't have decent engineers, they had pretty much the best in the industry outside of Xerox. But, management ignored them. The Lorraine graphics chip, which formed the heart of original Amiga system was designed by an Atari engineer, Jay Miner. He originally promoted the Lorraine idea to the management at Atari but they had no interest in using it, so he left. Atari made good systems though, despite, not because of, their executives.
LoveMeLoveMyDog80 3 months ago
@mavlok Not only did the Tramiels ruin Atari, they also ruined the industry by trying to undercut the Amiga with rushed and inferior machine.
combcomclrlsr 4 weeks ago
Amazingly, I still prefer the Amiga's version, simply because it's less obnoxious.
wildweasel486 4 months ago
Wtf am I being trolled by the long intro?
keoni29 5 months ago
You know a demo made a major impact when 30 years later, people STILL compare their demo to it. That Amiga Boing demo was written in 1983!!
jci10 5 months ago
@jci10 No sooner than 84, surely. The 64 had barely reached its prime by 83.
TahreyUK 4 months ago
people who insist that an STE is superior on graphics and sound (even) than a simple Amiga 500 are either deaf or blind.... just go click on any video on your right and compare games and demos... hey the real ones, not silly comparisons like this one.... come on get serious for a liitle!
ndial7 6 months ago
@ndial7 Yeapekae ... An Amiga vs ST war in 2011, I love that... Some comments: Amiga have a 7.14 Mhz 68000, and ST have a 8Mhz processor ... ST is faster (ok GLUE force each instruction to be 4 cycles aligned vs 2 cycles for amiga ...). ST video memory is interlaced it's better to make some chunky stuffs using MOVEP instruction. ST win for textured 3D object :)
TheNvipy 6 months ago
@ndial7 The Amiga definitely had better gaming graphics (DTP Mono on the ST was awesome) than the STE, but the STE did have better sound. Not only could the STE sample at higher rates, but the YM2149 Sound chip could be used at the same time, but now it could be output in Stereo along with the DMA sound.
10p6 5 months ago
@10p6 I only ever had an STFM and amiga 500+ but Wasn't the STE sample sound limited to just 2 channels? meaning that standard 4 channel amiga mod style music would have to be premixed in software, so 4 or 8 channel music ala amiga would start to eat into cpu time. that said, STE was clocked slightly faster, so i guess it would have been possible in games and demos to achieve sort of parity with amiga in terms of sound/cpu time, with the choice of exceeding it if more cpu time was dedicated.
Rebelli0nUK 5 months ago
@Rebelli0nUK The STE had two DMA hardware channels that could sample upto 50 Khz, however the system allowed it to easy output 8 and 16 channels through software. Another part is the STE could also pan the 3 channels of the YM2149 sound chip too. So technically it has 5 sound channels altogether.
10p6 5 months ago
@Rebelli0nUK ... I would have to go check on that, but I'm pretty sure it was 4-channel same as the miggy, even with the same all-or-nothing sample panning problems. It was Atari's attempt at going toe-to-toe with Commodore. Too bad they never shoved in some kind of multi colour mode (ie sacrifice a little more RAM for an extra bitplane or two... 32/64 simultaneous colours...) in there... nor killed off the STFM immediately so the STE's capabilities would get more programmer love.
TahreyUK 4 months ago
Boing demo was on Amiga at 1986.... making a silly demo on a STE 5-6 years after and comparing those two makes me think what happened on your brains dudes?
ndial7 6 months ago
This is what I see: Amiga is calculating geometry and rendering polygons at real time. Atari is moving a bitmap layer over another layer while changing the color palette. Winner: Amiga.
mariomacius 6 months ago
Comment removed
mariomacius 6 months ago
There's a reason this boing is one r away from boring.
fjccommish 6 months ago
Same old rubbish being spouted by the same boring fan boys. Especially the inaccurate rubbish about the Falcon.
EvilFranky 6 months ago
I Love that build up!
Boardy1846 8 months ago
Erm if the st boing demo is better why have they taken a sample from a sountracker module from the amiga. It's the axel F mod. One of the first soundtracker mods ever.
71JOEBLOGGS 10 months ago
Oh, I forgot many others... but one that really must be mentioned is the Atari STe does not even support gfx overscan, so images are not fullscreen - they have a border, unlike the Amiga.
JasperAbraxxious 10 months ago
I think its time for some facts now. :)
Colour palette Amiga 500 - 4096, Atari STe - 4096
Max Colours on screen A500 - 64 (EHB) or 4096 (HAM), STe - 16
No of DMA Sound channels A500 - 4, STe - 2
Gfx Copper Processor A500 - yes, STe - no
Blitter A500 - yes, STe - yes
Blitter line functions etc A500 - yes, STe - no
Variable DMA playback A500 - yes, STe - no (only set frequencies)
Thats probably enough. The STe (released in '90) was not even a match for the original Amiga ('85).
JasperAbraxxious 10 months ago 16
@JasperAbraxxious You forget one important thing:
Price Amiga 1800 dollars , Atari ST 999 dollars
Sure the amiga was a more capable machine but the Atari ST was a real nice machine and for the price it was selling for it was the best thing out there.
metro2002 1 week ago
Erm the Amiga boing ball demo was written on a prototype 84 board for some show....STE is 6 years later.....bit like comparing Atari 400 game to 1985/86 Marble Madness game on Amiga then ;o)
PS STE can only play 2 sample channels at fixed speeds, Amiga plays them at any speed. Also STE has a border around 320x200 standard 16 colour screen. Amiga has 64 colours, no border and up to 384x576 low-res mode. Shadow of the Beast comparison says it all :)
MadCommodore 11 months ago
Things could've been so much different for Atari if they had released STE from the start instead of those horrible STF and STFM.
mavlok 11 months ago
e kai?
VincentGreece 1 year ago
Haha, and on Amiga You can run normal applications and keep Boing in background - seems that Falcon was not able to do multitasking... but this
unfair comparison shows only how good Amiga was for many years and still used as reference platform after many years.
pandy071 1 year ago 2
@StayTogetherOnePiece - No, I still enjoy using my A600, and A4000D over my MegaST4 and Falcon. I still have them and use them to this day. I'm sort of a retro nut.
helldog3105 1 year ago
The Amiga "boing" demo was created in 1985. The Atari STE hardware didn't even exist until 5 years later, and I believe the Atari demo shown in this video was created in the early 90s. This shows just how revolutionary the original Amiga hardware was at the time it was released. It took a long time for other platforms to catch up.
sheridanmedia 1 year ago
I had the boing demo on atari st that looked exactly as amiga version, EXCEPT it had no sampled sound and no chess on the background, but otherwise was identical.
So you are compared the wrong versions.BTW the demo used some 20kb code or so (or maybe 5, dont remember), tiny thing.
krbosak 1 year ago
That'll be the blitter chip then. Block Line Transfer. kind of a graphics coprocessor. Amiga had copper bars . oooooh.
dorbot 1 year ago
All that said, I still prefer my Amiga 600, and A4000D to my Atari MegaST4 and my Falcon. There just seems to be more software, and games on the Amiga than I can find for my Atari computers.
helldog3105 1 year ago
@helldog3105 Sure you did! The MegaST was a fine machine, but the Falcon just was a commercial desaster (== no software) inspite of the potential hardware! Damn you Atari! What about a little marketing for this great machine :o(
StayTogetherOnePiece 1 year ago
With a little bit of work you could display the entire palette of 4096 colors onscreen with either machine. The major difference between ST and Amiga computers was based on the custom chips in each. They both had pluses and minuses. Atari had much faster disk access. With built in hard drive access speed up to 10MB/s. The Western Digital chip increased disk speed by about 20% versus the amiga
helldog3105 1 year ago
One of the things that a lot of people are glossing over is that the close quality in games usually stemmed from the fact that games were created on the Atari then ported to the Amiga. The STe finally had the same palette size as the Amiga and had better sound like the Amiga, it still had a standard of 32 colors on screen, where by that time Amigas could do 64 color EHB mode, and those max colors don't include palette tricks on either.
helldog3105 1 year ago
awesome!
marquis0r 1 year ago
boing demo has been realized 24 hours before the first show that introduce the Amiga 500 in 1987 (check please for the year). That versus is stupid, keep another demo.
c3dr1cb 1 year ago
Lol, this is one of the most pathetic comparisons I have ever seen. :D ST fans need every straw they can cling to to sustain the illusion that the ST is in any way better than the Amiga. This is easily helped by showing them games like Jim Power, which never ever could be reproduced on a stock 68000 plus 16 colour framebuffer like the atari ST.
porcorosso81 1 year ago 4
Still, even the first generation Amiga, is superior to the STe in every single way.
This could easliy have been done on an Amiga 1000 while multitasking, having more colors and playing an ALIASING FREE version of the same mod used on the STe.
There's even a version for the Coco3 that is more impressive than the original Amiga boing demo. Does that prove the Coco3 is superior to the Amiga?
MrAhle2 1 year ago 3
@MrAhle2
Well put.
nickmctrick 1 year ago
I HAVE ATARI 1040 STE AND A500.I LOVED THEM BOTH.
ALL THAT IS THINGS WITH NO POINT(SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH) IM BOTH MACHINES DIFFERENTTIME FANATIC.
BUT THIS COMPARE ISUSELESS.ATARIGAMESHAVE WORSTMUSICONSTANDONSTEHAS ALMOSTAMIGA (3 STEREOCHANNELS)BUT AT 50 KHZ NOT 44,1ON AMIGA.GRAPHICS ONAMIGA BETTER THAN STE BECAUSE HAS MORE PARALLAXSCROLLINGTHAN STE AND OTHERS.ATARI ST/STEDEMOSCENE IS BETTER.UTILITY ATARI ST SCENE IS BETTER.BUT GAMES ARE BETTER ON AMIGA ALTHOUGH I LIKE ST CHIP CRAPPY SOUNDFANATIC
petsasjim1 1 year ago
remember the boing demo was thown together at the '83 CES on a prototype amiga, you can't really compare...
kimosaaaabe 1 year ago
That Atari ball bounces like theres no physics. I don't know why Atarists always wanted to prove? Amiga was better. That's obvious. Of course it doesn't mean Atari was bad.
Scumkill2 1 year ago
:D great vid
peterkray 1 year ago
HAHAHAHAHA ATARI BOING IS SO MUCH BETTER !!!!
mrkariolis 1 year ago
lol n'importe quoi ... quelle mauvaise fois ces Ataristes ! ^^
pumpum800 1 year ago
@pumpum800 j'ai eu les deux bécanes (et pourtant je suis + atariste qu'amiguiste), et il est vrai que les deux séquences ne sont pas comparables. sans être codeur, la séquence amiga fait appel à des polygones alors que celle sur STE a recours au bitmap classique.
la comparaison est d'autant plus idiote que le ST avait pour avantage sur Amiga une meilleure gestion de la 3D. une manière de raviver le légendaire duel Atari/Amiga
ankalagan777 1 year ago
You are not showing the two biggest parts of the Amiga demo, the screen dragging and multitasking instances of a number of them running at the same time without skipping a beat. That is what the Amiga demo was about, not about bouncing a spinning 3D ball with shadow - almost any computer can do that.
Gerardus1970 1 year ago
Seems to me like these two demos both get something different right. The Amiga's demo is more technically impressive in that one can actually multitask well while running it, but the STe demo seems more pleasing to look at and hear.
Does anyone know the exact name of the STe demo, anyway?
Elebreed 1 year ago
Everybody seems to forget you could multitask when running the boing demo on the amiga. You could run more then 10 at the same time and play with workbench!
the4mula 1 year ago 2
Puff lo primero el video de la pelota rebotante de amiga fue programado para su presentacion, el de atari seguro que mucho tiempo despues, ademas que la version amiga tiene rotacion y el de atari simplemente es un circulo rebotando sin mas.
Cuando quieras demotrar algo elige bien los videos.
dreamerm42 1 year ago
On another video I was watching which was a interview of the programmers of atari on you tube here it showed the amiga version running on Atari st computer in the interview I saw
theobserver5000 1 year ago
uhhh.... the STE is 2d. no comparison.
Pence128 1 year ago 3
It was far better on my ZX81, which is superior to the universe (this irony is dedicated for all Amiga friends).
trophy242 1 year ago
Hahaha - great. I really enjoyed it :DDDDD
karadok666 1 year ago
Little bit unfair, but nice anyway xD Love it!
StayTogetherOnePiece 1 year ago
The Amiga boing was still better then the STE one despite being produced many years before the STE one. How about you show everything else that could run whilst the Amiga boing was running and the screen dragging without missing a beat because that was what this demo was all about.
Gerardus1970 1 year ago
Man, even the "boing" sound is better on the Amiga ^^
And you forgot to tell us about the time between these two demos.
Clearly the ST was far behind the Amiga in terms of pure hardware, and you know that :D
(btw, some talented demomakers were able to push the ST to the limits, and that's cool)
OOverflowW 1 year ago
LOL You used to compare FIRST Amiga boing, and LAST boing from ST. Lame! Amiga rulez forever and You know that very well! ;D
Korshak 1 year ago
@Korshak I dont care about it - I have a Atari Falcon 030 :D
karadok666 1 year ago
I find this comparison to be slightly unfair. This boing demo was built for the VERY first Workbench, VERY first Kickstart, and VERY first commercially-available Amiga. The STe was created long after this one, so of course it'd be better. Like comparing a DOS game to an Amiga game.
Novetrix 1 year ago
Well, the original Amiga Boink! demo was ported perfectly to the normal ST (not STE).
Two data tables are used (one vertical bounce table and a left-right movement table). The chess-effect on the ball itself is just colour cycling.
I know this coz I ripped the original.
ObVReboot 1 year ago
LoL @ Amiga :) Also greetings to Amiga friends :D
dizasta977 2 years ago
How well does the STE version multitask?
lurkerrekrul 2 years ago 3
Its funny how the old rivalries are still very much alive. Some of the comments on other so called comparison videos are quite ferocious. Bit sad really...you'd think we would have all grown up a bit by now. :-S Nice to see some of the old games and demos though. Thanks for that.
deepblue69uk 2 years ago 3
Wow, that proves a lot. Showing an old slapped together demo on the original 1st generation Amiga.... versus a demo made 7 years later for the 2nd generation STe.
So I guess the next comparison will be Super Startdust (1994) on an AGA Amiga vs Blasteroids (1988) on the St? :)
JasperAbraxxious 2 years ago 40
@JasperAbraxxious The Atari STE came out two years after the A500, and the demo came out in 1990, not 1996. The A500 had higher resolution and more displayable colors from day one, but the ST/E was always faster with 3D. The A500's 450 Polygons per second is pretty intense. If you want the real comparison, compare the A1200 and the Falcon 030. The Falcon trounces all over the A1200. The STE demo is better.
meowmmmmm 1 year ago
@JasperAbraxxious yout might compare the AMIGA AGA with the Atari Falcon and not with the STE
r8qt7 1 year ago
@JasperAbraxxious Should do a comparison between Super Stardust AGA and Super Stardust HD on the PS3. OK, the PS3 completely owns the Amiga version, but when you think that there's 16 years between them, the graphics haven't really changed that much (although I did only play the demo on the PS3).
djantix1977 1 year ago
@JasperAbraxxious This demo came out shortly after the STE was released! Not years as you claim!
meowmmmmm 1 year ago
@meowmmmmm - lol, no you tool, I mean years after the A1000 (and original boing demo) were released!
Are we going to compare software half a decade apart?
JasperAbraxxious 1 year ago
@JasperAbraxxious Hmm, Check out this on youtube 'Amiga versus Atari - Computer Chronicle part 3' And that is without the Amigas advanced hardware and blitter. So sad Amiga
meowmmmmm 1 year ago
@meowmmmmm Both systems had strong and weak points. The ST's built-in MIDI ports were cool, but it had a much lower color palette than the original Amiga, and it did not multitask. Also, the original ST sound was more like a C64 than an Amiga. Later ST models compared more favorably.
sheridanmedia 1 year ago
@sheridanmedia Errr, no. I'd go so far as to say that even the C64's sound was superior to the original ST! xD
Foebane72 4 months ago
@Foebane72 I'm otherwise part of the ST faithful, and love the YM sound... but I have to concede on that point. We'd have loved to have had a SID...
And this demo is pretty disappointing really. All that bouncing Atari ball was, was a multi colour sprite. The Amiga one was a real time rendered 3D model IIRC? And it could easily have played that music in the background if anyone had thought to do it.
The STe COULD easily exceed the Boing demo, but this particular example doesn't, really.
TahreyUK 4 months ago
@JasperAbraxxious Oh and if you are going to compare the AGA chipset, then compare it to the Falcon. That will beat any retail Commodore ever produced. For years, the ST and STE did a pretty close copy of games that took the Amiga specialized hardware to do.
meowmmmmm 1 year ago
@meowmmmmm - sorry, but the "mighty" videl chipset, whilst a well designed piece of hardware did not "beat" aga as you say. Both had pros and cons.
The videl had a dsp, but aga had a much larger colour palette and higher resolution screenmodes.
Oh, and NO st/ste games came close to replicating even ECS quality visuals. Check out the valiant attempt at an st version of Shadow of the Beast for example.
Better still, compare the last generation ECS Amiga games to last gen st/ste.
JasperAbraxxious 1 year ago
@JasperAbraxxious Videl did not have a DSP, the Falcon did. The Amiga had a higher color pallet, and could display 18bpp over the Falcons 16bpp, but AGA could only do it in HAM mode. Further more, the average human eye can only tell 8,000 shades of color, so its useless anyway.
SOTB was a poor written game for the ST, for that matter Amiga too. A version that was written for the STE would have been just as good if not better. The STE also had more advanced sound.
meowmmmmm 1 year ago
@meowmmmmm Well of course the Videl chip itself was seperate to the DSP, I worded that wrongly. I meant the entire Falcon chipset, often referred to as the Videl chipset had a DSP.
More to the point, I think you are a little confused. The AGA Amigas have a full 24bit palette, not 18bit. For that matter, the Videl supports 18bit, not 16. The human eye can EASILY tell the difference between 16bit and 24bit - try changing your screenmode to 16 bit and see the colour banding.
JasperAbraxxious 1 year ago
@JasperAbraxxious The Falcon has 18BPP palette, and 16BPP true color mode. It could display screen modes much higher than Atari advertised (Did that to keep compatibility with ST and TT.) Obviously the 1280x1024 x 256 colors mentioned above was slow, but I used mine at that res in 16 colors all the time. (Not bad for 1993) The "average" human eye can tell about 8000 shades if they are all next to each other. Why waste CPU time on colors that you cannot even see. 16 Bit mode is fine.
meowmmmmm 1 year ago
@meowmmmmm - Again, you are very confused. The STE has 8bit dma pcm sound - exactly the same as the very first Amiga... except the Amiga supported 4 channel without having to mix down, the Ste only has two channel. :)
Even the Falcon, a nice machine, had a crap OS (did not even multitask), poor cpu (bus crippled so it was slower than your average 020!) a much smaller colour palette, lower resolution screenmodes. Need I go on? Ataris are great machines, but theyre not the be all and end all.
JasperAbraxxious 1 year ago
@JasperAbraxxious he STE Sound had a frequency 2x higher than Amiga, the two channels were software programmable for more channels, and it could mix and balance the 3 channel Yamaha chip at the same time.
The 16 bit bus on the Falcon was a bit crappy, but other parts of it were much faster than other systems. It was not slower than a 020. With a VGA adapter, the Falcon could display 1280x1024 in 256 colors, which was very high for the time. The ST, STE, TT and Falcon had Multitos
meowmmmmm 1 year ago
@JasperAbraxxious The STE demo came out in 1989. As for the '2nd Generation' ST, other than the sound system, the pallet size increased from 512 colors to 4096, and a Blitter was added and no one used the Blitter anyway.
So in all reality, the Demo runs on a system virtually identical to the original ST, and only two years after the Amiga Boing demo, not 7 years.
10p6 5 months ago
@10p6 : The STe WAS the 2nd generation ST, just as AGA was the 2nd generation Amiga. The Ste had DMA, vastly improved sound, a blitter, increased colour palette, extra joyports, upgradeable ram etc. If it wasnt the next generation ST, then what was it?! This demo would struggle to run on an ST as it uses the blitter extensively, and by the way, the Amiga boing demo was made in 84, so it is 5 years apart. For some reason I thought this STe demo was from 91.
JasperAbraxxious 5 months ago
@JasperAbraxxious I disagree with regards to the extensive use of the Blitter. A version of this demo exists for the ST which has lower quality mono sampled sound, but looks very similar.
10p6 5 months ago
@JasperAbraxxious arguably, the amiga 500+ / ECS chipset was the 2nd generation amiga, and is the closest parallel to the STE, , and the AGA series the 3rd, sitting alongside the atari falcon.
Rebelli0nUK 5 months ago
@Rebelli0nUK ... Was the AGA the one in the A1200? If so... it's much the same sitch as the A500 vs the ST :)
Miggy had the better graphics modes, and ultimately better memory & expansion capabilities, but ran slower (and, this time, even with a less capable CPU overall, 020 vs 030), lacked the trick DSP, and tended to come with less RAM as default. Swings and roundabouts.
TahreyUK 4 months ago
Well.. It's "Amiga boring" vs "Atari STE boing". Greetings to Amiga friends ;-) Don't be to serious, please.
trophy242 2 years ago
Hehe - Amiga got powned ...
r8qt7 2 years ago
You missed the point of the Amiga's boing. The main point was to show multitasking of the operating system, the second was to show phisics that rules the move of the ball, the third was to show graphic capabilities. In fact, the atari demo have more colors, but do you know the year of the production? The Amiga Boing is January 1984.
31337B 2 years ago 2
The Amiga while a lille boring is probably more impressive due to the rotation of the checks and the transparency of the shadow...
Scopie33 2 years ago 21
@Scopie33 So the shadow was done independently of the ball and was a seperate sprite?
djantix1977 1 year ago
@Scopie33 Check this youtube video 'Amiga versus Atari - Computer Chronicle part 3' The ST (not STE) shows the same bouncing ball that the Amiga did around the same time as the Amiga demo was created. And that was without all the 'Advanced hardware that the Amiga has.'
meowmmmmm 1 year ago
@Scopie33 Well I've never programmed on either, but I would guess the rotation of the checks is achieved through palette rotation of a static image, which is technically the same as what's going on with the Atari ball and its rainbow colouring.
ImantaBabite 1 year ago
σκατα...
Commodorian 2 years ago
LOL! That's a good comparison. You should have a lot of angry Amiga fanboys here... This can be a real flame :-) LOL again.
trophy242 2 years ago
όσο υπάρχουν έστω και δύο το κάστρο δεν πέφτει!!! ΘΑ χαλάσουμε μπόλικο ασκέρι!!!! :p
TurricanGR 2 years ago
Μπράβο Turri! Atari rulez!
Kopard 2 years ago