Play Dirty: The Dirty Dungeon

[Antiks72]

yay stormbringer.

[pspboy7]

I like that idea, giving players bonus dice when they need it. It's like drawing upon luck when the situation is kinda sticky. Luck can run out however. hehe

[nstiles42]

Wick makes me what to punch something, b/c he sounds so pompous. However, I really like this idea.

[renanmartha]

Tryings this out today. The train is departing. All aboooooard! o/

[falseprophecy]

Awesome. Simply awesome. I am definitely trying this out!

[665zombie]

outstanding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!

[Replayability]

Why does the 'music' have to be 20 times louder than your voice?

[GMCiaramella]

You are so... umm... NOT rail road.

[gearsofwar2glitchers]

yo you have 0 friends! 

[ALLEGROKHAKI]

Hi! I emded it on my video rpg blog. Gry Fabularne . TV

[LanceVader]

Okay, I really like this. Thank you very much for sharing.

People will accuse you of lots of different things because you're approaching the game (their game!) from a completely different angle. Some people don't LIKE drama. Some people hate having drama decide any outcome. Others simply don't care for it. You seem to enjoy that more than any other part of the game.

[glummdead]

I really liked this. Don't take notice of the railroad comments!

[0gasawara]

awesome idea!

[cptmachine]

i'm gonna try this one day, sounds good.

[Caladors]

I laughed at the face you made when you went. "Really?"

[lenowin]

I'm pretty tempted to try this myself :) Thanks.

[captbloode]

@lenowin I've done this like five times now, and it frickin' ROCKS!

[W4RW017]

Also, I'd probably use a D6. Its not that much more, only 2 more than your suggestion (And I play D100 system). And I got LOADS of D6

[W4RW017]

I'd probably do this, but I'd only let them create the elements. I'd make the map, as I dislike them having a "GM Map" of the area. An ingame map (aka a less detailed map) would be cool, perhaps. But theres no fun exploring a dungeon you already know everything about. Aye?

[rickardelimaa]

A nice system and I'll try it some day, but this dungeon can still be rail roaded. It doesn't matter who or what are making up the locations. If a GM is leading the players from one location to another, then it's rail roading. It would be different if the players said "Let's to go the Pit of Snakes" (that they made up with this system).

Railroading aren't a scenario structure - it's a game master technique. A dungeon is almost always played as a rail road, but it doesn't have to be rail roaded.

[W4RW017]

Rail Road is basicly when the players, no matter what they do, end up with the result. Which kinda removes the whole purpose of roleplaying.

[captbloode]

@W4RW017 Exactly, and this sort of game removes that almost entirely. :)

[bschuitema]

And again, the movie cites a scenario; at no point does it chronicle the events and how or if they relate to the characters.

If I were to state that 'x number of people are murdered each year', by this logic, people would start to accuse me of being a murderer. People keep adding motive where none was given.

[stormcrow71]

Neat concept. I love it. This would work really well in a game where you swtich GM's each week.

How would you apply this to a modern/cyberpunk/sci-fi setting?

How do you avoid breaking the 4th wall with this? (I like trying to make people forget the system as much as possible.)

Peace.

[HighHammerNoob]

Sci-fi: On a space ship!

Modern/cyberpunk: Cooperate Headquarters!

[jesternario]

Okay, LordStrange, I'ld like to here your advice on munchkin players. Example: My friend runs a game with a group of monty haulers (One power gamer, one tagalong power gamer, and one rules lawyer). The players reveal the rules lawyer, who's wrong about 40-60% of the time. The group argues with the GM at every opertunity, and ignore plot elements as a rule. How would you wean them towards honest play?

[jesternario]

Revere, not Reveal. darn typos

[bschuitema]

My heart says 'tire iron', but the rest of me doesn't want jail time.

I know you asked John Wick this, but all I can say is I've had players like that before, and it becomes too much of a headache to manage the playground. I tell them up front that they need to leave those bad habits at the door, and if they are unwilling or unable, they don't find themselves invited back. Groups like that are a killjoy for average or more RP-focused players like myself.

[W4RW017]

It's simple, tell them to start roleplaying and lay of the fucking munchkin attitude. If they keep playing like that, go by the two universal roleplaying rules;

1. The storyteller is under every circumstance ALWAYS right

2. If he's by some reason wrong, refer to rule number 1

And if they keep that up, simply ask them to leave the group. The Storyteller shouldn't abuse his power over the PC's, but god damnit he's got all right in the world to ask of a player to just implode if he's a munchkin..

[mman36]

Cool! Only, it's just me and my little brother playing so this is a little...less effective than it could be. Neat stuff though. Are you planning on adding to the Game Design Seminars? It's says at the end of the last one there's going to be another but it's not up. You ever play Shadowrun? Found a 1st edition at Half-Price the other day. 20x better than D&D.

[PaulofCthulhu]

Very clever, thank you for sharing that. :)

[scowilli5]

I think some of you are missing the main points that John brings up. First many minds are better then one when creating a dungeon, and if your playing with a good group of people this creative part is fun. Second plot complications derail road the players expectations.

[azirk83]

Few questions:

1) How do you deal with treasure in this scenario? Does it give more dice to the bowl, or more complication points?

2) How do you merge this sort of dungeon in an overall plot line? Do you start out saying "This dungeon has the Magical McGuffin at the end of it." or do you have the players do that?

Here's hoping you'll answer a somewhat literate post. ;)

[digitalmorphine]

You know what? I really liked this!

Now I think we need more zulgyans here so you can come up with more of these videos!

Seriously, though: That is one (good) way of sharing the responsibility of the adventure creation with your players.

I've heard concerns of GMs telling their players they don't have as much time to prepare all that stuff and in consequence to that, they're not playing (as much) anymore.

Did you come up with this technique because of that?

[jumpinjackflash84]

I mean, you are keeping a railroady game, just letting the players build the road.

[LordStrange]

"This word you keep using. I don't think it means what you think it means."

-- perhaps folks should define "rail road."

[bschuitema]

Inconceivable!

You hit my Princess Bride button. I had to...

[shakagl]

Dude, this is one lazy GM. He doesn`t want to spend time thinking and creating an adventure, so he just throws the responsibility to the players and tries to sell it as a new and creative way of playing...

[LordStrange]

If you think dancing and improvising around six players' choices--within minutes of hearing them--is easy, you are a far better GM than me, sir. ;)

[zulgyan]

The more I think about this, the more problems I find it. I think this "might" work for a one-shot, but would totally fail for a long term campaign.

I think John has the ability to say lots of nonsense in a very confident, entertaining and exciting manner. He must be a good GM!

[LordStrange]

I've been running 5 Houses of the Blooded campaigns for over a year with similar techniques. Works just fine here.

[20sider]

He is a good Gm if you don't mind the characters taking a back seat to the story line. But yeah he is a good GM

[bschuitema]

I really feel as if I'm only responding when I disagree, so sorry, not picking a fight for the sake of it. But why is this impression that the characters and story are mutually exclusive aspects of the game? They aren't, or at least they don't have to be. Instead of thinking of them as polar opposites, one prefers to combine flavors that complement them perfectly. Peanut butter and jelly. The heroes by definition are the central focus point of the story.

[LordStrange]

Why do you assume that?

[zulgyan]

I've been blocked?

[LordStrange]

If you were blocked, you wouldn't be able to post.

[zulgyan]

You are a "I hate what I can't understand" type. You haven't understood D&D my friend.

[zulgyan]

I mean, I like other kinds of games, different to the D&D play experience. But you just claim things about D&D that are just not that way.

[zulgyan]

LOL dude, you took my comment to seriously. And you failed to convince me. You can remove my plot-immunity if you are so angry at me and wish to shoot me down with a gun! LOL!

Just some humor, peace.

[zulgyan]

Third, how does this prevent player's of making up a very linear dungeon with one room after the other, no choice but a straight path? Even though you could mess with that with the "complication points" you would not prevent a highly linear dungeon if that is what the player's can up with!

[bschuitema]

Most players are going to want to get creative and will not make it that simple. They'd rather play Risk than Checkers. They'd rather have a challenge.

[zulgyan]

Second, LOL, this is kinda hilarious. Just look how railroad you are! You are telling players "YOU'LL BE AT TOWN ASKING FOR STUFF", "YOU'LL BE GATHERING DATA", "THEN YOU'LL GO TO THE DUNGEON", "THEY YOU'LL TRY TO DEFEAT IT". Man, you got all their course of action laid down!!! LOL

[bschuitema]

Boo.

You want him to waste time giving us set dressing for a sample adventure, or are you just trying to be obnoxious to get a rise?

[LordStrange]

So, if the GM comes up with any kind of advance plan, he's railroading the players.

Uh huh.

I'll keep that in mind.

[zulgyan]

First, to make you know me, I'm not a d20 D&D player but play the older versions of the game, mainly my variant version of Original D&D (1974). I don't agree gaming to be linear in the first era of gaming. Nor limited to dungeon crawls. Player's are tossed into a world of wonder they explore freely and adventure in, setting up their on goals and directions.