@ 6:04 the statement is incorrect. The third heaven is mentioned in the bible by Paul, who says in 2 Corinthians 12:2 " I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago---whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows---such a man was caught up to the third heaven."
3 levels of heaven as in 'paradise' is completely foreign to the Bible. The word 'heaven' does not mean 'paradise'. It means atmosphere or air. The Earth's atmosphere is the 1st heaven, space is the 2nd heaven, and God's dwelling place (paradise) is the 3rd.
After the 40days in the desert, Jesus Christ went out of his way to find 12 that would be his Apostels! But, in the mormon church, it is alleged he settled for one dude. Jesus Christ promised the 12 that satan would not prevail against his Church which includes Heaven and Earth, so, apostacy never happened. If the Church was apostate when you say it was, then the Holy Bible is an apostacy and you must reject it because only bad fruit can come from a bad tree. The mormon church is suspect.
The word heaven means air or atmosphere. Biblically the first heaven is our atmosphere, the second heaven is space where the planets reside, and the '3rd heaven' is where God resides. This is how it is read and understood by any serious Bible reader. Take your Mormon glasses off when reading the Bible.
@truthseeker1973 Thanks for your reply.I think your statement very much proves there are levels.The exact point the bible puts across.Read the other verses I mentioned.KJV Mark 13:27 "gather his elect....utter most part of heaven"mat 5:19 "....shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven...be called great in the kingdom of heaven.john 14:2 .. many mansions...matt:16:27 "reward every man according to his works" .
@jeromerez1 Just wanted to say I love you brother! Jesus Christ is my lord and Savior! I missed 1Corinthians15:40-42. talks about the resurrection. If there is a Judgement which all Christians believe.It would make sense there would be levels of heaven. Because we are all judged by our works and heart.rev 14:13 ..And their works do follow them.rev 20:12 "the book of life:and the dead were judged out of those things which written according to their works". if a judgement and a reward.
@jeromerez1 Why would a murderer , rapist, be in the same place as a believer in christ who fell away and denied the faith but still was a good person didn't murder or steal or rape and A person who lived a Christ like life be reward the same. Then in revelations it talks that. rev21:7 " overcometh shall inherit all things"Rev 2:26 he that over cometh and keepeth my works unto the end,to him will I give power over nations." the final judgement purposes to give degrees of reward+none
@jeromerez1 We could go on and I could show scripture and you show scripture , get contentiousness and say mean things to each other.One must ask though Who is right and who is wrong? thats up to the individual to finally decide for themselves.I see the need for apostles of Jesus Christ even more today. Why? Because they had authority where divinely chosen and Clarified the Gospel doctrine to the people.There are so many opinions out there. are we all loonies? or is someone right?
@jeromerez1 The Church of Jesus Christ has a KJV eph2:20 " Foundation of Apostles and Prophets with Jesus Christ been the Chief Cornerstone"The Head of his Church .quote from matthew 16:18 "I will build MY CHURCH"Yes the bible says there are false prophets but if it states that there must be true ones. Who are true? well you have to do your own due diligence like I did.I went to many Churches which all had good things but I never felt full. They all have different spins on the bible.
@jeromerez1 I come to Know Jesus Christ and his teachings Much more in the Church of Jesus Christ or Lds or nick name Mormon than any of them. Ive seeked to understand most christian faiths and spoken with them directly rather than been misinformed by people from other faiths who have either no knowlodge or undestanding or misinformed.I would say do the same. I hope you find happiness in your journey to feel the Love of God and His son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Spirit like me.
There ARE levels of heaven, in the sense of the Biblical definition of 'heaven'. The Bible uses the word heaven a lot, but is not always referring to paradise. Friend, you're still trying to fit the text to your belief system. Search Strongs H8064, better yet go to blueletterbible(dot)org. Different rewards in Heaven(paradise) yes, different levels(paradise), no.
@truthseeker1973 Thanks Brother for you reaching out. " you're still trying to fit to your belief system" I feel we both are. I examined this teaching from all view points Born again , athiest, jehovahs, 7th day etc the Lds points make sense to me. I have studied the bible , Bom and other scriptures, prayed upon it and have received my answer. If I may be wrong. Well I think God will judge my heart. None one can say Im wrong with my belief bar Jesus Christ or Judge me .
@jeromerez1 and in essence And most important of all I belieive in Jesus christ as my lord and Saviour, I have repented and continue to repent of my sins and live the commandments of God ,been Baptised in the Born again faith and By authoirty in Lds. recieved the holy Ghost and continue to pray. In essence according to the teachings of Christians Doms Im saved and going to heaven.So your right, im right. we are both wrong or none of us are.Ounce again the individual has their belief
My belief system IS the Bible, and not that of an institutionalized religion. I can certainly say your belief is wrong if it contradicts the Bible. Mormonism and the Bible do NOT mesh. Mormonism is a different God, Jesus, Spirit and Gospel. Paul warned about believing in a false Jesus, Spirit and Gospel. This warning was for a very important reason. LDS points only make sense to those who don't know better, or those who follow their desire for truth.
I feel it would be unfair to say Lds people believe in another Jesus or spirit or gospel. why because through my experience the Jesus I belive in is the same , the gospel taught for salvation is the same.We just understand them from different view pionts. I posted scriptures from the bible as I have found many scriptures supporting Lds teachings. I suggest anyone reading these posts to inform themselves from there source origins.Then one can make a informed decision.love yas
I want to correct my comments on salvation being the same .From my understanding lds teachings have a lot more understanding of bible. Anyone reading these posts go to the church find out for yourself whether we believe in another Jesus . Read the Bible read the Bom and then find out for yourself. This is what I did 5 years ago . Im happy I did.Many people forced their opinions on me from different faiths it made me search more. Im Happy,lifes great.I follow Jesus Christ. Amen
Most LDS are quite clueless about the BIble, in fact you could throw it out of the 'triple', and Mormons could still go about their Mormony business. Long shot here, but someone who's religion IS the Bible would more than likely read it and understand it more correctly than a religion who's main literature isn't the Bible. You follow desire for truth.
It is not unfair to say Mormonism teaches a different Jesus/Spirit/Gospel. It is all in Mormon doctrine, and very different than the Bible. Gordon B. Hinckley admitted the LDS church believes in a different Jesus. There is a lot for you to find out and learn it sounds. Your feelings or experience do not = truth. Mormonism teaches THEIR version of the 'atonement' only allows us to be resurrected. After that it is your works that determine where you go next. (continued)
(from continued) This is NOT the Biblical gospel of salvation by grace. Spare me the typical Biblical verse cherry picking and trying to shoehorn the text into your belief system. If a concept is Biblical, it is already part of the (true) Christian faith.
Joseph Fielding Smith, 10th prophet of the Mormon church wrote, "But man may commit certain grievous sins - according to his light and knowledge - that will place him beyond the reach of the atoning blood of Christ. If then he would be saved he must make sacrifice of his own life to atone ... for the blood of Christ alone under certain circumstances will not avail".
Core Bible doctrine, which Paul preached, states that only by faith in Jesus Christ, does one receive (not earn) salvation.
The easy asnwer is the same way all the other ones do. Lots of joint effort over lots of time. A better answer is the master mind behind it does not have the intellectual limitations of men, but merely uses men as pawns.
I do believe in Christ and his atonement. I do believe that family can be together forever no matter how it looks in people's eyes. We have a Father in Heaven who watches and loves us. We did have a life before coming to the earth and we also have a life after death. So, we just do not disappear, but we do have a purpose in our life. Those are a part of messages received in the temple. That's what the church of Jesus Christ of latter days saints believe.
You said it! The machine of deception loves to misuse wording as well for persuading those 'adults'. Where one group calls themselves Christian (who really aren't), another group calls it science (where it really isn't).
WHY IS IT ALL MORMONS ARE WHITES?ITS A CULT:BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS!!! "The Mormon Bible" IS LIKE SCIENTOLOGY ALL OF THEM ''THINK THE ARE HOLIER THAN THOU!!
it is all about sex...their cult, LDS god has endless celestial sex to produce spirit babies to be born on earth to marry and screw to make babies to lead "mormon" lives so they can marry lots of sex and make babies from the spirit babies produced by the mormon god to grow and become mormons and marry and have sex for the spirit babies to get here and ....an endless repetition... of sex forever...what a wild story for old Joe Smith who obviously was obsessed with sex.
@mar6zz0 so its a goal to take over the world glad you cleared that up. christians object because they try and pass themselves off as a christian church they are not because the things they believe in christians do not, i personal think cult
You mean like the Mormon founder Joseph Smith did. He had sex with multiple women, including already married ones, but at least it was AFTER he got married. Is that something you can follow?
It's claimed to be a summarization of Swedenborg's views regarding Hell. He had a lot to say about Biblical ideas, that weren't Biblical. What do you expect from a guy conversing with spirits? I have read some of Swedenborg's material from 'Heaven and Hell'. Why would I want to read his material? To be 'inspired'?
MORMONISM IS NOT A CHRISTIAN RELIGION! BE CAREFUL THAT YOU ARE NOT LEAD INTO THE DECEPTION OF THIS PROVEN FALSE RELIGION!
I read this book and highly recommend it for everyone who is looking in to this blasphemous religion that can take your soul to hell. The author grew up in the Mormon Church and it is a completely FALSE RELIGION!
Arm yourselves! Read the book: “CAN MITT ROMNEY SERVE TWO MASTERS? The Mormon Church Versus The Office Of The Presidency of the United States of America”
@certainlytruthful lol well looks like i best prepare for hell then cos im lds and i beleive with all my soul that it is true and i would never leave it. ive been thru the temple and done endowments im going this weekend as well. it is the most amazing thing ever and i know that it is from god. ive been a member for 4 years now.
Too bad it isn't truth you are interested in, but rather what confirms your desires. You are correct though, it is from god, but not from God.
2 Tim 4:3
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables
@truthseeker1973 i have all the trurth i need and i dont feel worried one bit, cos i know when judgement day comes i have done all i can and all i have been asked of.
Putting works on the saving gospel of grace means you reject it and follow a different gospel. Paul warned of following a different gospel. Why? It certainly wasn't because different gospels lead to the same place. I'll already be with Christ in judgement day. He comes WITH his church.
Actually let me rephrase that. Christ comes with his church at his second coming. Actual 'white throne' judgement doesn't occur until after the millennium. In short, when judgement day comes, I'll have been with Christ for over 1000 years already.
@latterdaysaint4rever amen Brother . I love going to the temple . I feel Peace and renewed. Its a shame people misunderstand it .It may seem weird at first but when understanding comes it makes the bible teachings so much more understood.
Tell me latterday, what part of the Bible is better understood when traversing an LDS temple that has nothing to do with the Bible in the first place?
No, because your beliefs couldn't be more different than that of Christianity. Christianity IS a religion, a belief system, and every time a cult claims to be Christian, they are watering down what it means to be one.
So just cause you believe your cult claims to be the "orthodox" one doesn't mean much. If you are a seeker of truth lets see what you hold to be truth. Lets hear it.
Sounds like you need a lesson on what defines a cult. Google 6 signs of a cult. What is truth is what can be verified as such. The key word here is credibility. Those who would rather confirm what they want to believe don't care about truth.
That's a great politically correct websters definition, that covers EVERY belief system known to man, but doesn't cut it. Google 6 signs of a cult like I said, where it shows the earmarks of what defines a cult. Mormons shouldn't throw the words 'new age' around. It's really opening a can of worms.
Yes it does cut it. It just does not cut it when it comes to your personal view of what a cult is. I would tend to think your 6 signs would also include those that followed Christ in the NT... am I right?
It's easy to make something up and deny what the Bible says to help you hold on to that bigotry you foster.
I'd like you to show me what you think new age is.
It doesn't really matter anyway Bel. A rabbit hole. What does matter is which gospel, Jesus, and Spirit you're choosing to follow. If you weren't insistent on clinging to what you 'know is right' by dismissing facts, our conversation would be very different in the first place.
Is it the accountability and responsibility that Jesus taught? Nope... that would be the modern day mainstream christian cause they continue to believe they are sinners after they are born again.
There are different uses of the term New Age. In the sense I would use it for Mormonism (God is within us all, we are all saved - Universalism (99% in Mormonism)), the two go together very well. That is why you often see Mormons writing new age books (ie, Embracing the Light), or new agers becoming Mormons.
Bel you don't see, you 'see'. The fact you are insistent about the truth of a religion that has zero credibility says you've dismissed a lot. As far as being born again, and still a sinner, apparently you're picking up where myth left off. What difference does it make? Another rabbit hole. If being born again makes you perfect now, what's the difference between that and believing you're a sinner? The end result is the same. Salvation. Not the result of LDS blasphemy.
If there is a LOT OF IMPORTANCE, you should be able to be less vague than that. Please explain.
Is one less saved than the other? If one is 'perfect' while still in their body, then we wouldn't need to ask forgiveness (despite knowing we are saved) right? Go ahead, tell me how you SEE it.
When we partake of the Atonement we are perfect. This is the good news. The Law simply taught that you had to be perfect in the Law to return to God... You tell me how we become perfect in the Law? That is simple fact. We accept Christ we become purified in Him.
Do you consider yourself Born Again? If so do you still consider yourself a sinner?
I never implied we are all saved. Being born again makes you a new creation. Christ/Spirit now exists inside of you. Some may even argue a biological process happens. whether you are cleansed now and made perfect now, or when you die physically and wiped clean it still leads to the same thing. I've heard it argued both ways. The fact you are so willing to die on this hill like myth is unsupported (cont.)
I never implied you that you believe we are all saved. never mind.
I’m not dying on any hill. New creator, born again, adopted. these things are not literal. & no we are not biologically changed. We just commit ourselves to God.
It would make more sense to you if you believed Christ.
The AoF & the Plan of Salvation do not go against the Bible. Why don't you stick with your trinity or or become a bible believer they are both exclusive. No fence sitting.
I never said you said that. Still living with 2 opinions you are. Your heart is where your beliefs lie - in Mormonism, what your mouth says is where the lies are. If you were 'in Christ' you'd have no business being Mormon. If you knew and trusted the Bible, you'd know salvation has nothing to do with Mormonism. You'd also know the Biblical Jesus and Spirit are very different than the Mormon Jesus and Spirit.
Faith, wisdom, the true saving gospel, and knowing Who God and Jesus is, come from the Book. The only truth comes from his word. "prophets" can make many claims, but if you trust them over what was written, then you're the fool. God said TEST ALL THINGS. Satan says trust your heart.
All I want do really at this point is point you to the most credible source. The Bible. Read the NT without bias colored glasses.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost... he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
It comes form God & God alone. Not a book. Remember John 1:1 u make Jesus into a book, way to go. The Word of God is Christ
Your logic doesnt stand up to any criticism as its dependent on your own understanding Proverbs 3:5
Then you call John in error. It's plain English. At this point I think you are trying to straw man (and move the goalpost). Create an image of me/a Christian that isn't accurate, thus changing your argument (distraction). The Bible 'is the word of God'. It contains the word of God. It doesn't mean pages fly out of God's mouth every time he speaks. A Christian sees the Bible as a living breathing book as well. Truth isn't what your after.
“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but TEST THE SPIRITS to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”
2 Timothy 4:3-4
“For the time will come when they will not endure SOUND DOCTRINE; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths.”
When did i say i believe every spirit? Or i did not test them? Instead of God being the source of truth you make a book that source and elevate it above you god and make god accountable to it...
Your pride in your opinion will never let you see the truth of the matter... or the heart of it.
I never said you said that. Still answering "Sorry but even the book does not make this claim". At this point I'm wondering if you are even all there. Call up Myth and you both can agree on everythning. BTW, not my opinion, but what is written.
When Mormonism is tested. It completely fails under sound doctrine/the Bible. In a court of law it would fail miserably as well. Your belief system is based on pure fiction.
11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
All 3 replies to temptations from the Satan started with 'It is written...'
Isaiah 40:8 says…
“The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever.”
It's not just John 1:1. The whole first part deals with it. You don't like it, not my problem.
As I told myth. This conversation would make more sense from one believer to another. Either stick with your articles of faith and your plan of salvation, or become a Bible believer. You can't have both. I still can't make heads or tails of what it is exactly you believe, because you are continually bouncing back and forth, while standing on hills made of sand.
YOU don't support Biblical teachings, you know, that collection of books that's 'NOT the word of God'?, despite having a plethora of credibility, while you prop a fictional book with no credibility up higher. Keep convincing yourself Bel. There would be too much at stake to lose here on Earth.
Be whatever, we've been down this road before. I get it. You want to believe in Mormonism. Despite being able to prove to you each one of those points via your own doctrine, you've heard it before. It didn't change your views then, it's not going to now.
technically unless you and your brother/sister have near perfect genetics, like it was in the beginning wasn't a naughty word yet, that would be wrong :D
@truthseeker1973 BTW How does what I'm saying contradict Mormon doctrine? This is exactly what the restored gospel teaches. Maybe you'd care to explain.
@truthseeker1973 I'm simply trying to comprehend your logic here. It contradicts every Biblical principle I know. How can you claim to be a "new creature, born of the spirit" and yet claim that righteousness is unattainable in this life? Mind you, I'm not talking about perfection, rather, I'm speaking of being clean from the stain of sin, these are two different things. The latter is not only achievable through grace, but also a requisite to enter God's kingdom.
@truthseeker1973 11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. Rev.22:11
@truthseeker1973 "I AM SAVED" and "I WILL BE SAVED" are two vastly different things, wether you care to admit it or not. So tell me, are you a "born again Christian" or a "will be born again one day Christian"?
Myth, if you were a believer, your place among such Biblical topics would be more respectable, but you are venturing into an area that contradicts your own Mormon doctrine. Maybe I'm choosing my words poorly (troll food). I AM SAVED, I am a new creation (born of the spirit), and there is nothing I can do to earn it (it's already done). You know, typical crazy Christian stuff. Feel better?
@truthseeker1973 You have it all twisted as usual. Jesus came to save sinners from their unrighteousness and convert them unto righteousness. To deny oneself is to deny temptation and the desires of the flesh. As for me being a "righteous one" let's just say, I'm not the one claiming to be already saved while yet remaining unsaved from the power of sin.
@truthseeker1973@truthseeker1973 I guess I'm having trouble understanding how you believe you are saved while at the same time admitting your own unrighteousness Do you actually believe you can be saved in your sins? Being born again implies receiving, AND RETAINING a remission of your sins through God's grace. You contradict yourself by saying no one can become a true saint and still be saved. Do you suppose when you die that you will somehow magically become a righteous person? Absurd!
Whether I'm cleared of all sin now, or it happens when I'm free of my meat vessel. Don't care. It's like saying either I AM SAVED, or I WILL BE SAVED (upon death, or rapture). If I died right now, I WILL BE SAVED by the blood of Christ. Does it matter? Stop trolling Myth.
@BeInnocuous Actually, the word "saint" refers to one who is sanctified through Jesus Christ. You are by your own admission an unrighteous person, how can you claim to be saved? You so called born-again crazies like to boast so much about being vile sinners, how can you claim to have any part in God's kingdom? Do you not see the total contradiction. No unclean thing can dwell in God's presence. FYI
Are you by your own admission a righteous one? Jesus came to save the sinners, not the righteous. Knowing you are a vile sinner is part of denying one self. My slate will be wiped clean with my incorruptible body soon enough. Myth, careful who you call crazy. I remember our conversation from before, and 2+2 still does not equal 5.
LDS teaching doesn't teach you've been washed clean of sin through the atonement of Christ. If you believe this that's great, but it isn't Mormonism. Articles of Faith Bel. Your version of atonement is quite different as well. In Mormonism: Christ's Atonement granted us resurrectable bodies. Where you go after that is determined by your works/actions.
John 15: 12-14. Were we god is determined by our actions... We can either accept the yoke of Christ... or deny it.
The Atonement is not about belief only... it it was there would be no reason for God to ever give us the Law and the principals it teaches us. God does not do things that are meaningless.
You have yet to prove your opinion that LDS do not follow the teachings found in the bible. You are only supporting your opinion. You opinion is meaningless.
ah Bel, we going in circles again. Your using verses from a source you admittedly don't call the Word of God, but rather believe just 'contains' some of the Word of God. I'm guessing since you used John 15 to 'support' an argument I'm not even clear on, it then qualifies as 'part of the Word of God', yes?
Yes… the bible merely contains some of the Word of God… Don’t you believe your god is the Almighty? The Everlasting? Yet you define and confine him to a book? Not much of an almighty everlasting god if you ask me.
We know you are not clear or some simple truths of the Word of God. The bible contains the Word of God given to men. The bible itself is not the Word.
@truthseeker1973 Very well said my friend! To add, when the Sanhedrin asked HIM if He were the Messiah who was fortold in prophecy He could have said yes or I am he or whatever. He CHOSE 2 answer"IAM" that particular utterance in context from Torah meaning He was indeed God. This with the fact that he held the authority to forgive sin was considered so blasphemous & inexcuseable by Caiaphas that he tore his clothes. I can see no other stronger evidence that Jesus claimed to be God in one of us.
Yes... Jesus is YHWH. Yet he is not the Father. When Adam fell he was cut off from the Father and Jesus stood in for him. Jesus has been our mediator to the Father from the beginning. We still pray to God in his name. We will be cut off from God until we stand before him and are judged. Again... Jesus is YHWH but he is not God the Father who we have never known.
Yes I am aware how the Mormon religion has the names all screwed up, and is completely out of whack with the Bible. Someone in the LDS church from way back when really should have picked up the Bible and actually read it.
I love your generalization and just flat out assumptions.... You guys love to cling to your tradition and refuse to accept anything that is outside it.
We like to cling to what is the verifiable the truth, not religions based on fiction. Really these arguments shouldn't even be taking place, because anyone with a lick of sense that knows the best they can do to prove their religion is cherry pick single Bible verses, all while claiming it's not the word of God, wouldn't get in one to begin with. There really is no debate. If you insist on believing it, no person can help you.
The truth is NOT what you are after, you seek to satisfy your flesh. The Bible IS on your side, you are not on IT'S side. Your belief is not based on the Bible, nor do you claim it to be the word of God, but yet you keep trying to use the text from it, and you want to be called Christian.
I'm on God's side. My belief is based on my personal relationship with God not a book that can be skewed any way you want. He comes first. Not a book. I do not submit my God to and bind him to a book.
I should call you a bibleonian instead of a christian as you follow first a book called the bible then as an after though the teachings of Christ. I dont want to be called a Christina. Saint would do fine.
Calling you a saint IS lipstick on a pig and you fail at righteousness just as much as any man. You have a personal relationship with a god, but not the God of the Bible.
@BeInnocuous I agree, i believe The king James Bible is the Word of God, not worshiping the bible, but God! I love having a personal relationship with God. My Brothers and sisters in Christ ,witch believe Jesus was the Promise Messiah, The Body of Christ will have to die for what we believe in. Our Testimony of Jesus. That's when all these, so call Christians, will fade away. The devil will seek to kill true Christians not the made up Satanic religions. I see Satan's fingerprints in all of them.
@Tonyaishere2 -Of course you realize that the King James Bible- a monumental creation of English literature as it is- is only a translation many times revised. One of many translations.
We have early manuscripts we can refer to (as many have done and do) if translation is in question. If you are implying the text has been flat out altered, good luck trying to prove it.
@BeInnocuous On that verse, the Orthodox Greek who believe Jesus is God are silent, because they know in Greek the phrase should read 'The Word was A god.' Much debate has centered on that, but a text of John dating to the early 2nd Century CE has the indefinite article (a) "the Word was A God." Strange but true.
The Jehovah's false witnesses would love you. I urge anyone to investigate this further. Bimfirestarter your claims are bogus. I've seen the explanations. Why would the Bible call the Word 'a god' in the first place? Use yer head man.
Thanks brother! I'll take that as a complement from a scholar such as yourself. I think I'm done with Belnnocuous. The truth isn't for everyone, they'd rather adhere to doctrines of devils to have their ears itched.
@BeInnocuous Well now you're sounding like the rest of your cooky friends. "No I'm not -YOU are!" Please explain this: "LDS believe in one God. The bible believes in many gods? What is yoru excuse for it?" REALLY? Please explain yourself. You pray in the name of Jesus but believe he is a seperate god. You believe god was once a man. & please enlighten me Oh Great one on the other language besides Greek, oh obsessor of the apocryphal Nag Hammadi. You do realize that Coptic is a form of Greek.
@BeInnocuous I prefer to stand with the existing 2 Billion Christians and some of the greatest minds in history: St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Thomas A Kempis, Geert Groote, Erasmus of Rotterdam, Kant, Locke, Wesley. These men believed in the truth of a Christianity that has never been lost or needed restoring. I will stand with the billion alive now and gone before. You go ahead and stand with you tiny 14 million minority and believe in your cult's cookoo heresy and satanic lies. Selah
BTW I wanted to add this from earlier. You quoted scripture from the book you doubt (Bible), that is "not the word" in Math. 7:13 (Hell is the wide gate...etc). This is the opposite of Mormon doctrine. Mormonism's teaching on 'heaven' and 'hell' is almost entirely universalism, where 99% will reach a heavenly level. Just another Biblical contradiction in Mormonism.
Please show me where i have doubted the Bible? Cause all you are doing is making false claims. And making false claims makes baby Jesus cry.
U R wrong about LDS & their view of Heaven. What U would call heaven would B the equivalent 2 only the 3rd level of the Celestial Kingdom. Which will only contain a small amount. All others will have a degree of hell(separation from God)as they will B rewarded according to their works unlike those that receive exaltation
-that seduced his flock's wives and donned a General's uniform attempting to force his militarized cult's message on others(talk about Napoleon complex)& then his army gets its ass kicked by local militias, he runs for his life and then when the sheriff comes 2 arrest him for trial, he kills the only man that could protect him with his six shooters and empties the rest of the bullets into the crowd before their rage does him in for good. Is that a martyr? Do U really want to pin your hope there?
@BeInnocuous OK Anti-Innocuous cult member pal, I can tell you I would have to go back to Kindergarten to believe in your nutball religion "popcorn poppin on the apercot tree - book of mormon stories that my brainwashed teacher indoctrinated in me". Only your so called scholars believe that the new testiment was not written in Greek. So lets see, your so called "Restored truth" was lost exactly when??... and then brought forth all that time later by an egomaniacal madman (continued)
ok weak minded ad hominem is all you got blind to your own occult practices cult member dude.
You really have no basis of turth of facts... You guys simpley believe the NT is in greek because that is all we have. Read more about it... it might shock you... but then you might loose all your faith as the little proof you cling to will vanish before you eyes.
@BeInnocuous You tiny minded lost splinter cult member The scriptures are so clear. The lastest translations of 1st and 2nd century greek (Papyrus Bodmer and Codex Sanaiticus) leave no doubt of the true meaning. But I forgot you mormons rely on the 400 yo KJV and belive you have a monopoly on correct interpretation. Read again. I did not say God or we think we are rags. The scripture says the BEST of our WORKS are as menstrual rags to God. He loves us above all other things - hence his sacrifice
So are you saying that God only protected the Papyrus Bodmer and Codex Sanaiticus and nothing else? This is ignorance. There is a strong case against Greek being the original language.
The scriptures are nothing but tradition handed down. God is the only source of truth. You rely on your idol and i'll rely on my God.
In the beginning was the word, and the word WAS GOD. God puts his word above his own name (in the Bible). When Satan tempted Jesus he replied with...here it comes....the word. You are right, that God is the only source of truth, and the truth can be verified. Smith was a con, and the events in the BOM never happened.
@BeInnocuous Its a shame that your cult has so twisted the purity of the christian message to where you arrogantly rely on yourselves for salvation. May God help you.
@BeInnocuous No my friend it is U that clearly don't understand the true Biblical keystone & foundation of the WHOLE Christian faith. The path indeed is narrow because there R few that have the COMPLETE faith in Christ's grace alone. Works for works sake R dead. "U are as whitened sepulchres, with naught but dead bones within" "The best of ur works are as menstrual rags to God"- This is what Christ preached. U see works R a natural byproduct growing out of faith. Faith is ALL that is necessary
Where did I say works for work sake? Christ told us 2 B doers & to take his yoke upon us. Not to simply & only have faith. & for U 2 believe faith is only a belief then U either have not read the bible or do not understand it. Yes you BAC's believe yourself to be rags, this only proves that U R not Born Again, cause if U were U would not have this view of yourself. Christ preached that only those that do what he commanded are those he died for John 15: 12-14
Im a mormon and i know by heart that all this not true. why cant people just respect each others religions.? ive been a mormon my whole life and i like it and i will always like it <3
Then you follow your desires for truth, and it's not TRUTH your really after. The truth isn't for everyone. Have you read the New Testament lately? It warns of false beliefs because a different gospel doesn't save, you can't follow a false Jesus, and you don't 'get' a false spirit.
@ 6:04 the statement is incorrect. The third heaven is mentioned in the bible by Paul, who says in 2 Corinthians 12:2 " I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago---whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows---such a man was caught up to the third heaven."
allisonforfornsed 3 days ago
@allisonforfornsed
3 levels of heaven as in 'paradise' is completely foreign to the Bible. The word 'heaven' does not mean 'paradise'. It means atmosphere or air. The Earth's atmosphere is the 1st heaven, space is the 2nd heaven, and God's dwelling place (paradise) is the 3rd.
truthseeker1973 3 days ago
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After the 40days in the desert, Jesus Christ went out of his way to find 12 that would be his Apostels! But, in the mormon church, it is alleged he settled for one dude. Jesus Christ promised the 12 that satan would not prevail against his Church which includes Heaven and Earth, so, apostacy never happened. If the Church was apostate when you say it was, then the Holy Bible is an apostacy and you must reject it because only bad fruit can come from a bad tree. The mormon church is suspect.
fljrox 5 days ago
scary
sorcerer2001 1 week ago
Here Are some bible verses that talk about levels of heaven.
research them yourself. KJV 2 Corithians 12:2 ...."Such an one caught up to the third heaven"
Something to ponder it it says 3rd heaven there must be a 1st and second right????
Here are some others.
1peter 5:4,st luke 22:29-30. mark 13:27 mathew 25:34. mathew 5:19. john 14:2, 1corinthians 15:40-42.
jeromerez1 1 week ago
@jeromerez1
The word heaven means air or atmosphere. Biblically the first heaven is our atmosphere, the second heaven is space where the planets reside, and the '3rd heaven' is where God resides. This is how it is read and understood by any serious Bible reader. Take your Mormon glasses off when reading the Bible.
truthseeker1973 1 week ago
@truthseeker1973 Thanks for your reply.I think your statement very much proves there are levels.The exact point the bible puts across.Read the other verses I mentioned.KJV Mark 13:27 "gather his elect....utter most part of heaven"mat 5:19 "....shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven...be called great in the kingdom of heaven.john 14:2 .. many mansions...matt:16:27 "reward every man according to his works" .
jeromerez1 1 week ago
@jeromerez1 Just wanted to say I love you brother! Jesus Christ is my lord and Savior! I missed 1Corinthians15:40-42. talks about the resurrection. If there is a Judgement which all Christians believe.It would make sense there would be levels of heaven. Because we are all judged by our works and heart.rev 14:13 ..And their works do follow them.rev 20:12 "the book of life:and the dead were judged out of those things which written according to their works". if a judgement and a reward.
jeromerez1 1 week ago
@jeromerez1 Why would a murderer , rapist, be in the same place as a believer in christ who fell away and denied the faith but still was a good person didn't murder or steal or rape and A person who lived a Christ like life be reward the same. Then in revelations it talks that. rev21:7 " overcometh shall inherit all things"Rev 2:26 he that over cometh and keepeth my works unto the end,to him will I give power over nations." the final judgement purposes to give degrees of reward+none
jeromerez1 1 week ago
@jeromerez1 We could go on and I could show scripture and you show scripture , get contentiousness and say mean things to each other.One must ask though Who is right and who is wrong? thats up to the individual to finally decide for themselves.I see the need for apostles of Jesus Christ even more today. Why? Because they had authority where divinely chosen and Clarified the Gospel doctrine to the people.There are so many opinions out there. are we all loonies? or is someone right?
jeromerez1 1 week ago
@jeromerez1 The Church of Jesus Christ has a KJV eph2:20 " Foundation of Apostles and Prophets with Jesus Christ been the Chief Cornerstone"The Head of his Church .quote from matthew 16:18 "I will build MY CHURCH"Yes the bible says there are false prophets but if it states that there must be true ones. Who are true? well you have to do your own due diligence like I did.I went to many Churches which all had good things but I never felt full. They all have different spins on the bible.
jeromerez1 1 week ago
@jeromerez1 I come to Know Jesus Christ and his teachings Much more in the Church of Jesus Christ or Lds or nick name Mormon than any of them. Ive seeked to understand most christian faiths and spoken with them directly rather than been misinformed by people from other faiths who have either no knowlodge or undestanding or misinformed.I would say do the same. I hope you find happiness in your journey to feel the Love of God and His son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Spirit like me.
jeromerez1 1 week ago
@jeromerez1
There ARE levels of heaven, in the sense of the Biblical definition of 'heaven'. The Bible uses the word heaven a lot, but is not always referring to paradise. Friend, you're still trying to fit the text to your belief system. Search Strongs H8064, better yet go to blueletterbible(dot)org. Different rewards in Heaven(paradise) yes, different levels(paradise), no.
truthseeker1973 1 week ago
@truthseeker1973 Thanks Brother for you reaching out. " you're still trying to fit to your belief system" I feel we both are. I examined this teaching from all view points Born again , athiest, jehovahs, 7th day etc the Lds points make sense to me. I have studied the bible , Bom and other scriptures, prayed upon it and have received my answer. If I may be wrong. Well I think God will judge my heart. None one can say Im wrong with my belief bar Jesus Christ or Judge me .
jeromerez1 1 week ago
@jeromerez1 and in essence And most important of all I belieive in Jesus christ as my lord and Saviour, I have repented and continue to repent of my sins and live the commandments of God ,been Baptised in the Born again faith and By authoirty in Lds. recieved the holy Ghost and continue to pray. In essence according to the teachings of Christians Doms Im saved and going to heaven.So your right, im right. we are both wrong or none of us are.Ounce again the individual has their belief
jeromerez1 1 week ago
@jeromerez1
My belief system IS the Bible, and not that of an institutionalized religion. I can certainly say your belief is wrong if it contradicts the Bible. Mormonism and the Bible do NOT mesh. Mormonism is a different God, Jesus, Spirit and Gospel. Paul warned about believing in a false Jesus, Spirit and Gospel. This warning was for a very important reason. LDS points only make sense to those who don't know better, or those who follow their desire for truth.
truthseeker1973 1 week ago
I feel it would be unfair to say Lds people believe in another Jesus or spirit or gospel. why because through my experience the Jesus I belive in is the same , the gospel taught for salvation is the same.We just understand them from different view pionts. I posted scriptures from the bible as I have found many scriptures supporting Lds teachings. I suggest anyone reading these posts to inform themselves from there source origins.Then one can make a informed decision.love yas
jeromerez1 1 week ago
I want to correct my comments on salvation being the same .From my understanding lds teachings have a lot more understanding of bible. Anyone reading these posts go to the church find out for yourself whether we believe in another Jesus . Read the Bible read the Bom and then find out for yourself. This is what I did 5 years ago . Im happy I did.Many people forced their opinions on me from different faiths it made me search more. Im Happy,lifes great.I follow Jesus Christ. Amen
jeromerez1 1 week ago
@jeromerez1
Most LDS are quite clueless about the BIble, in fact you could throw it out of the 'triple', and Mormons could still go about their Mormony business. Long shot here, but someone who's religion IS the Bible would more than likely read it and understand it more correctly than a religion who's main literature isn't the Bible. You follow desire for truth.
truthseeker1973 1 week ago
@truthseeker1973
Correction. The "triple" does not contain the LDS manipulated KJV of the Bible.
truthseeker1973 6 days ago
@jeromerez1
It is not unfair to say Mormonism teaches a different Jesus/Spirit/Gospel. It is all in Mormon doctrine, and very different than the Bible. Gordon B. Hinckley admitted the LDS church believes in a different Jesus. There is a lot for you to find out and learn it sounds. Your feelings or experience do not = truth. Mormonism teaches THEIR version of the 'atonement' only allows us to be resurrected. After that it is your works that determine where you go next. (continued)
truthseeker1973 1 week ago
@jeromerez1
(from continued) This is NOT the Biblical gospel of salvation by grace. Spare me the typical Biblical verse cherry picking and trying to shoehorn the text into your belief system. If a concept is Biblical, it is already part of the (true) Christian faith.
truthseeker1973 1 week ago
Let Man believe and follow that which he will, and Mock him not!
enathanielcarey 1 week ago
@enathanielcarey
Nothing can persuade someone away from believing what they want to believe, so worry about it not! Truth isn't for everyone.
truthseeker1973 1 week ago
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Joseph Fielding Smith, 10th prophet of the Mormon church wrote, "But man may commit certain grievous sins - according to his light and knowledge - that will place him beyond the reach of the atoning blood of Christ. If then he would be saved he must make sacrifice of his own life to atone ... for the blood of Christ alone under certain circumstances will not avail".
Core Bible doctrine, which Paul preached, states that only by faith in Jesus Christ, does one receive (not earn) salvation.
scatignani 1 week ago
How can a lie become so complex
donaldblowers 2 weeks ago
@donaldblowers
The easy asnwer is the same way all the other ones do. Lots of joint effort over lots of time. A better answer is the master mind behind it does not have the intellectual limitations of men, but merely uses men as pawns.
truthseeker1973 2 weeks ago
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I do believe in Christ and his atonement. I do believe that family can be together forever no matter how it looks in people's eyes. We have a Father in Heaven who watches and loves us. We did have a life before coming to the earth and we also have a life after death. So, we just do not disappear, but we do have a purpose in our life. Those are a part of messages received in the temple. That's what the church of Jesus Christ of latter days saints believe.
manamahalo1 2 weeks ago
After watching the ritualistic / legalistic nature of this "religion", I experience an extraordinary
cognitive disconnect. HOW do people not instantly recognize this as hooey?!
I take solice in watching Dana Carvey's take on religion: "Squatting Monkeys Tell No Lies."
Sorry to report to devotees of Salt Lake City, you own ONLY a bill of goods.......
mrbarthoss1 2 weeks ago
@mrbarthoss1
You said it! The machine of deception loves to misuse wording as well for persuading those 'adults'. Where one group calls themselves Christian (who really aren't), another group calls it science (where it really isn't).
truthseeker1973 2 weeks ago
there is no true or love with anti mormon for mormon here
seemlyme 3 weeks ago
@seemlyme
If you are saying what I think you are saying, exposing the lies you are following IS an expression of love.
Proverbs 27:6
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.
REALLY read this:
Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
truthseeker1973 3 weeks ago
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WHY IS IT ALL MORMONS ARE WHITES?ITS A CULT:BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS!!! "The Mormon Bible" IS LIKE SCIENTOLOGY ALL OF THEM ''THINK THE ARE HOLIER THAN THOU!!
nokiwe7 3 weeks ago
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it is all about sex...their cult, LDS god has endless celestial sex to produce spirit babies to be born on earth to marry and screw to make babies to lead "mormon" lives so they can marry lots of sex and make babies from the spirit babies produced by the mormon god to grow and become mormons and marry and have sex for the spirit babies to get here and ....an endless repetition... of sex forever...what a wild story for old Joe Smith who obviously was obsessed with sex.
nasticanasta 3 weeks ago
The evangelicals are the ones that are evil and spreading these lies. They hate mormons because they don't want mormons to take over the world!
mar6zz0 3 weeks ago
@mar6zz0 so its a goal to take over the world glad you cleared that up. christians object because they try and pass themselves off as a christian church they are not because the things they believe in christians do not, i personal think cult
cassandrabadie 3 weeks ago
At least they don't have sex till they get married. Now that something I can follow.
mar6zz0 3 weeks ago
@mar6zz0
You mean like the Mormon founder Joseph Smith did. He had sex with multiple women, including already married ones, but at least it was AFTER he got married. Is that something you can follow?
truthseeker1973 3 weeks ago 2
@truthseeker1973
Pass church leaders followed big time. How many people roaming the grounds of Utah that share Young and Smith's blood lines....gross
BayAreaSun 3 weeks ago
Swedenborg did NOT say thet those in hell could "work their way to something higher". Obviously you haven´t read anything of Swedenborg. Why?
spaderfluga 1 month ago
@spaderfluga
It's claimed to be a summarization of Swedenborg's views regarding Hell. He had a lot to say about Biblical ideas, that weren't Biblical. What do you expect from a guy conversing with spirits? I have read some of Swedenborg's material from 'Heaven and Hell'. Why would I want to read his material? To be 'inspired'?
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973 No, to give a correct account of it, that´s all.
spaderfluga 1 month ago
The pronounciation of the name "Swedenborg" irritates me. "Sweden" in "Swedenborg" has nothing to do with the name of his country of birth.
spaderfluga 1 month ago
MORMONISM IS NOT A CHRISTIAN RELIGION! BE CAREFUL THAT YOU ARE NOT LEAD INTO THE DECEPTION OF THIS PROVEN FALSE RELIGION!
I read this book and highly recommend it for everyone who is looking in to this blasphemous religion that can take your soul to hell. The author grew up in the Mormon Church and it is a completely FALSE RELIGION!
Arm yourselves! Read the book: “CAN MITT ROMNEY SERVE TWO MASTERS? The Mormon Church Versus The Office Of The Presidency of the United States of America”
certainlytruthful 1 month ago
@certainlytruthful
As false as all religions are right.
benaberry 1 month ago
@certainlytruthful lol well looks like i best prepare for hell then cos im lds and i beleive with all my soul that it is true and i would never leave it. ive been thru the temple and done endowments im going this weekend as well. it is the most amazing thing ever and i know that it is from god. ive been a member for 4 years now.
latterdaysaint4rever 1 month ago
@latterdaysaint4rever sorry to hear that
liamlloyd77 1 month ago
@latterdaysaint4rever
Too bad it isn't truth you are interested in, but rather what confirms your desires. You are correct though, it is from god, but not from God.
2 Tim 4:3
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973 i have all the trurth i need and i dont feel worried one bit, cos i know when judgement day comes i have done all i can and all i have been asked of.
i know where i am going do you?
latterdaysaint4rever 1 month ago
@latterdaysaint4rever
Putting works on the saving gospel of grace means you reject it and follow a different gospel. Paul warned of following a different gospel. Why? It certainly wasn't because different gospels lead to the same place. I'll already be with Christ in judgement day. He comes WITH his church.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@latterdaysaint4rever
Actually let me rephrase that. Christ comes with his church at his second coming. Actual 'white throne' judgement doesn't occur until after the millennium. In short, when judgement day comes, I'll have been with Christ for over 1000 years already.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@latterdaysaint4rever amen Brother . I love going to the temple . I feel Peace and renewed. Its a shame people misunderstand it .It may seem weird at first but when understanding comes it makes the bible teachings so much more understood.
jeromerez1 1 week ago
@jeromerez1
Tell me latterday, what part of the Bible is better understood when traversing an LDS temple that has nothing to do with the Bible in the first place?
truthseeker1973 1 week ago
@certainlytruthful MORMONISM IS NOT A CHRISTIAN RELIGION!
Why? Because we are different then the mainstream movement because we promote personal accountability and responsibility?
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
No, because your beliefs couldn't be more different than that of Christianity. Christianity IS a religion, a belief system, and every time a cult claims to be Christian, they are watering down what it means to be one.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
So just cause you believe your cult claims to be the "orthodox" one doesn't mean much. If you are a seeker of truth lets see what you hold to be truth. Lets hear it.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
Sounds like you need a lesson on what defines a cult. Google 6 signs of a cult. What is truth is what can be verified as such. The key word here is credibility. Those who would rather confirm what they want to believe don't care about truth.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
cult >noun a system of religious worship directed towards a particular figure or object.
You new age redefinition of it to try to exclude what you want and only include those you want is deceptive.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
That's a great politically correct websters definition, that covers EVERY belief system known to man, but doesn't cut it. Google 6 signs of a cult like I said, where it shows the earmarks of what defines a cult. Mormons shouldn't throw the words 'new age' around. It's really opening a can of worms.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
Yes it does cut it. It just does not cut it when it comes to your personal view of what a cult is. I would tend to think your 6 signs would also include those that followed Christ in the NT... am I right?
It's easy to make something up and deny what the Bible says to help you hold on to that bigotry you foster.
I'd like you to show me what you think new age is.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
It doesn't really matter anyway Bel. A rabbit hole. What does matter is which gospel, Jesus, and Spirit you're choosing to follow. If you weren't insistent on clinging to what you 'know is right' by dismissing facts, our conversation would be very different in the first place.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
Name one fact i've dismissed.
Is it the accountability and responsibility that Jesus taught? Nope... that would be the modern day mainstream christian cause they continue to believe they are sinners after they are born again.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
There are different uses of the term New Age. In the sense I would use it for Mormonism (God is within us all, we are all saved - Universalism (99% in Mormonism)), the two go together very well. That is why you often see Mormons writing new age books (ie, Embracing the Light), or new agers becoming Mormons.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
I see new age as doctrines like the trinity and anything to support none biblical teachings.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
Bel you don't see, you 'see'. The fact you are insistent about the truth of a religion that has zero credibility says you've dismissed a lot. As far as being born again, and still a sinner, apparently you're picking up where myth left off. What difference does it make? Another rabbit hole. If being born again makes you perfect now, what's the difference between that and believing you're a sinner? The end result is the same. Salvation. Not the result of LDS blasphemy.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
It's Be Innocuous...
There is a lot of importance on believing you are born again saved yet viewing yourself as having dirty rags.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
If there is a LOT OF IMPORTANCE, you should be able to be less vague than that. Please explain.
Is one less saved than the other? If one is 'perfect' while still in their body, then we wouldn't need to ask forgiveness (despite knowing we are saved) right? Go ahead, tell me how you SEE it.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
We are all saved in your context.
When we partake of the Atonement we are perfect. This is the good news. The Law simply taught that you had to be perfect in the Law to return to God... You tell me how we become perfect in the Law? That is simple fact. We accept Christ we become purified in Him.
Do you consider yourself Born Again? If so do you still consider yourself a sinner?
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
I never implied we are all saved. Being born again makes you a new creation. Christ/Spirit now exists inside of you. Some may even argue a biological process happens. whether you are cleansed now and made perfect now, or when you die physically and wiped clean it still leads to the same thing. I've heard it argued both ways. The fact you are so willing to die on this hill like myth is unsupported (cont.)
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
I never implied you that you believe we are all saved. never mind.
I’m not dying on any hill. New creator, born again, adopted. these things are not literal. & no we are not biologically changed. We just commit ourselves to God.
It would make more sense to you if you believed Christ.
The AoF & the Plan of Salvation do not go against the Bible. Why don't you stick with your trinity or or become a bible believer they are both exclusive. No fence sitting.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
Yes, because you are so Biblically driven, right?
1 john 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
You are good at that btw, deceiving yourself.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
I've never said i have no sin... I only claimed to be in Christ. You are not versed in the bible are you?
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
I never said you said that. Still living with 2 opinions you are. Your heart is where your beliefs lie - in Mormonism, what your mouth says is where the lies are. If you were 'in Christ' you'd have no business being Mormon. If you knew and trusted the Bible, you'd know salvation has nothing to do with Mormonism. You'd also know the Biblical Jesus and Spirit are very different than the Mormon Jesus and Spirit.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. You are good at that btw, deceiving yourself."
You never said that? You are deceiving yourself.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
My heart is in Jesus. I trust Jesus not a book.
If you were in Jesus you would not make such blasphemous comments like putting your trust in a book.
Salvation is only thought the Atonement of Christ. One only... how many onlys do you have?
I'd like you to show me what is different about what the Bible and what the Saints teach about Jesus.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
Faith, wisdom, the true saving gospel, and knowing Who God and Jesus is, come from the Book. The only truth comes from his word. "prophets" can make many claims, but if you trust them over what was written, then you're the fool. God said TEST ALL THINGS. Satan says trust your heart.
All I want do really at this point is point you to the most credible source. The Bible. Read the NT without bias colored glasses.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
Sorry but even the book does not make this claim
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost... he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
It comes form God & God alone. Not a book. Remember John 1:1 u make Jesus into a book, way to go. The Word of God is Christ
Your logic doesnt stand up to any criticism as its dependent on your own understanding Proverbs 3:5
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
Rom 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Proverbs 30:6
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar
Psalms 138:2
.....for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
Proverbs was written by wisest man in history, behind Christ of course
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
Your error is assuming and believing the word of god is a book. It is not.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
Then you call John in error. It's plain English. At this point I think you are trying to straw man (and move the goalpost). Create an image of me/a Christian that isn't accurate, thus changing your argument (distraction). The Bible 'is the word of God'. It contains the word of God. It doesn't mean pages fly out of God's mouth every time he speaks. A Christian sees the Bible as a living breathing book as well. Truth isn't what your after.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
No you are trying to calim that The Word of God is a book. You made the strawman... i just lit the match.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
Here is more
1 John 4:1
“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but TEST THE SPIRITS to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”
2 Timothy 4:3-4
“For the time will come when they will not endure SOUND DOCTRINE; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths.”
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
When did i say i believe every spirit? Or i did not test them? Instead of God being the source of truth you make a book that source and elevate it above you god and make god accountable to it...
Your pride in your opinion will never let you see the truth of the matter... or the heart of it.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
Follow Mormonism then. Enjoy
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
I'll follow Christ... you can put all your faith in a book. enjoy it like the pharisees did.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
I never said you said that. Still answering "Sorry but even the book does not make this claim". At this point I'm wondering if you are even all there. Call up Myth and you both can agree on everythning. BTW, not my opinion, but what is written.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
The bible does not make the claim that it is the Word or word of God... this is your own personal deception to promote your idolatry of a book.
It is your opinion that a book is Gods word and the source of all truth and authority. That is you opinion and it is your understanding not Gods.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
When Mormonism is tested. It completely fails under sound doctrine/the Bible. In a court of law it would fail miserably as well. Your belief system is based on pure fiction.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
What fails? Or is your whole thing smoke and mirrors? You can not reveal what fails because if you show it then your gig is up... right?
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
Acts 17:11
11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
All 3 replies to temptations from the Satan started with 'It is written...'
Isaiah 40:8 says…
“The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever.”
It's not just John 1:1. The whole first part deals with it. You don't like it, not my problem.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
1 Thes 5:21
Instead, test everything. Hold on to what is good.
Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
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@truthseeker1973 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Yes... and you decided to let your heart interpret a book and bind your god to your understanding of it.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
As I told myth. This conversation would make more sense from one believer to another. Either stick with your articles of faith and your plan of salvation, or become a Bible believer. You can't have both. I still can't make heads or tails of what it is exactly you believe, because you are continually bouncing back and forth, while standing on hills made of sand.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
The only sand i see is that which you used for the foundation of your belief.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
YOU don't support Biblical teachings, you know, that collection of books that's 'NOT the word of God'?, despite having a plethora of credibility, while you prop a fictional book with no credibility up higher. Keep convincing yourself Bel. There would be too much at stake to lose here on Earth.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
How do i not support biblical teachings?
I've never put any book above the Bible.. Nor does the LDS church.
Your view of the Bible as the inerrant infallible Word of God means you are replacing your God with an idol.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
Be whatever, we've been down this road before. I get it. You want to believe in Mormonism. Despite being able to prove to you each one of those points via your own doctrine, you've heard it before. It didn't change your views then, it's not going to now.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
god would be better than any book therefor the books are not inspired.
benaberry 1 month ago
@benaberry
inventing a god the way you want him is called idolatry.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago 2
@truthseeker1973
exactly : ) , anyone for incest??
benaberry 1 month ago
@benaberry
technically unless you and your brother/sister have near perfect genetics, like it was in the beginning wasn't a naughty word yet, that would be wrong :D
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
Truth Seeker You Rock!
mormoncoffee 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973 BTW How does what I'm saying contradict Mormon doctrine? This is exactly what the restored gospel teaches. Maybe you'd care to explain.
101mythbuster 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous Maybe you you missed my follow up post. That comment wasn't meant for you. Again, my apologies.
101mythbuster 1 month ago
@101mythbuster
I kind of figured...
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973 I'm simply trying to comprehend your logic here. It contradicts every Biblical principle I know. How can you claim to be a "new creature, born of the spirit" and yet claim that righteousness is unattainable in this life? Mind you, I'm not talking about perfection, rather, I'm speaking of being clean from the stain of sin, these are two different things. The latter is not only achievable through grace, but also a requisite to enter God's kingdom.
101mythbuster 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973 11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. Rev.22:11
101mythbuster 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973 "I AM SAVED" and "I WILL BE SAVED" are two vastly different things, wether you care to admit it or not. So tell me, are you a "born again Christian" or a "will be born again one day Christian"?
101mythbuster 1 month ago
@101mythbuster
Myth, if you were a believer, your place among such Biblical topics would be more respectable, but you are venturing into an area that contradicts your own Mormon doctrine. Maybe I'm choosing my words poorly (troll food). I AM SAVED, I am a new creation (born of the spirit), and there is nothing I can do to earn it (it's already done). You know, typical crazy Christian stuff. Feel better?
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973 You have it all twisted as usual. Jesus came to save sinners from their unrighteousness and convert them unto righteousness. To deny oneself is to deny temptation and the desires of the flesh. As for me being a "righteous one" let's just say, I'm not the one claiming to be already saved while yet remaining unsaved from the power of sin.
101mythbuster 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973 @truthseeker1973 I guess I'm having trouble understanding how you believe you are saved while at the same time admitting your own unrighteousness Do you actually believe you can be saved in your sins? Being born again implies receiving, AND RETAINING a remission of your sins through God's grace. You contradict yourself by saying no one can become a true saint and still be saved. Do you suppose when you die that you will somehow magically become a righteous person? Absurd!
101mythbuster 1 month ago
@101mythbuster
Whether I'm cleared of all sin now, or it happens when I'm free of my meat vessel. Don't care. It's like saying either I AM SAVED, or I WILL BE SAVED (upon death, or rapture). If I died right now, I WILL BE SAVED by the blood of Christ. Does it matter? Stop trolling Myth.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous Actually, the word "saint" refers to one who is sanctified through Jesus Christ. You are by your own admission an unrighteous person, how can you claim to be saved? You so called born-again crazies like to boast so much about being vile sinners, how can you claim to have any part in God's kingdom? Do you not see the total contradiction. No unclean thing can dwell in God's presence. FYI
101mythbuster 1 month ago
@101mythbuster
Are you by your own admission a righteous one? Jesus came to save the sinners, not the righteous. Knowing you are a vile sinner is part of denying one self. My slate will be wiped clean with my incorruptible body soon enough. Myth, careful who you call crazy. I remember our conversation from before, and 2+2 still does not equal 5.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@101mythbuster how can you claim to be saved?
Because I've accepted Christ.
I'm not a BAC... I'm LDS.
I'm washed clean of my sin thought the atonement of Christ. This is the good news...
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
LDS teaching doesn't teach you've been washed clean of sin through the atonement of Christ. If you believe this that's great, but it isn't Mormonism. Articles of Faith Bel. Your version of atonement is quite different as well. In Mormonism: Christ's Atonement granted us resurrectable bodies. Where you go after that is determined by your works/actions.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
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@truthseeker1973 LDS teaching doesn't teach you've been washed clean of sin through the atonement of Christ
Yes it does... I'll point you to AoF 3 and 4.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
John 15: 12-14. Were we god is determined by our actions... We can either accept the yoke of Christ... or deny it.
The Atonement is not about belief only... it it was there would be no reason for God to ever give us the Law and the principals it teaches us. God does not do things that are meaningless.
You have yet to prove your opinion that LDS do not follow the teachings found in the bible. You are only supporting your opinion. You opinion is meaningless.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
ah Bel, we going in circles again. Your using verses from a source you admittedly don't call the Word of God, but rather believe just 'contains' some of the Word of God. I'm guessing since you used John 15 to 'support' an argument I'm not even clear on, it then qualifies as 'part of the Word of God', yes?
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
Why would God say that Adam has become like one of us in the first place?
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
Yes… the bible merely contains some of the Word of God… Don’t you believe your god is the Almighty? The Everlasting? Yet you define and confine him to a book? Not much of an almighty everlasting god if you ask me.
We know you are not clear or some simple truths of the Word of God. The bible contains the Word of God given to men. The bible itself is not the Word.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
THIS VIDEO SCARES ME MORMONISM IS ANOTHER C U L T. This is what the Bible revealed in the Revelations....REPENT NOW! this video is creepy.
b215apple 1 month ago
The section on Swedenborg is taken from the DVD Megiddo II The New Age.
I can thoroughly recommend both parts 1 & 2 and can be purchased from Cutting Edge Ministries on the Net.
IDH77 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973 Very well said my friend! To add, when the Sanhedrin asked HIM if He were the Messiah who was fortold in prophecy He could have said yes or I am he or whatever. He CHOSE 2 answer"IAM" that particular utterance in context from Torah meaning He was indeed God. This with the fact that he held the authority to forgive sin was considered so blasphemous & inexcuseable by Caiaphas that he tore his clothes. I can see no other stronger evidence that Jesus claimed to be God in one of us.
modernknightone 1 month ago
@modernknightone
Yes... Jesus is YHWH. Yet he is not the Father. When Adam fell he was cut off from the Father and Jesus stood in for him. Jesus has been our mediator to the Father from the beginning. We still pray to God in his name. We will be cut off from God until we stand before him and are judged. Again... Jesus is YHWH but he is not God the Father who we have never known.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
Yes I am aware how the Mormon religion has the names all screwed up, and is completely out of whack with the Bible. Someone in the LDS church from way back when really should have picked up the Bible and actually read it.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
I love your generalization and just flat out assumptions.... You guys love to cling to your tradition and refuse to accept anything that is outside it.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
We like to cling to what is the verifiable the truth, not religions based on fiction. Really these arguments shouldn't even be taking place, because anyone with a lick of sense that knows the best they can do to prove their religion is cherry pick single Bible verses, all while claiming it's not the word of God, wouldn't get in one to begin with. There really is no debate. If you insist on believing it, no person can help you.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
So what is your standard of what is verifiable truth?
I've not cherry picked one verse... But i look at the hold context... not just John 10:30. and say, "ta da!!!!"
The Word of God is God... John 1:1 not a book that is just a reflection of it. Even the bible is on my side.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
The truth is NOT what you are after, you seek to satisfy your flesh. The Bible IS on your side, you are not on IT'S side. Your belief is not based on the Bible, nor do you claim it to be the word of God, but yet you keep trying to use the text from it, and you want to be called Christian.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
I can say the same thing to you...
I'm on God's side. My belief is based on my personal relationship with God not a book that can be skewed any way you want. He comes first. Not a book. I do not submit my God to and bind him to a book.
I should call you a bibleonian instead of a christian as you follow first a book called the bible then as an after though the teachings of Christ. I dont want to be called a Christina. Saint would do fine.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
Calling you a saint IS lipstick on a pig and you fail at righteousness just as much as any man. You have a personal relationship with a god, but not the God of the Bible.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
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@truthseeker1973
Yes I do fail at righteousness... that is why I'm a Saint... You understand that Saint simply means follower of Christ right?
My God is the Almighty. Not just a god of a book.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous I agree, i believe The king James Bible is the Word of God, not worshiping the bible, but God! I love having a personal relationship with God. My Brothers and sisters in Christ ,witch believe Jesus was the Promise Messiah, The Body of Christ will have to die for what we believe in. Our Testimony of Jesus. That's when all these, so call Christians, will fade away. The devil will seek to kill true Christians not the made up Satanic religions. I see Satan's fingerprints in all of them.
Tonyaishere2 1 month ago
@Tonyaishere2
I do not see the bible as the Word of God... It does contain Gods Word but it itself is not the Word.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@Tonyaishere2 -Of course you realize that the King James Bible- a monumental creation of English literature as it is- is only a translation many times revised. One of many translations.
Bimfirestarter 1 month ago
@Bimfirestarter
We have early manuscripts we can refer to (as many have done and do) if translation is in question. If you are implying the text has been flat out altered, good luck trying to prove it.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous On that verse, the Orthodox Greek who believe Jesus is God are silent, because they know in Greek the phrase should read 'The Word was A god.' Much debate has centered on that, but a text of John dating to the early 2nd Century CE has the indefinite article (a) "the Word was A God." Strange but true.
Bimfirestarter 1 month ago
@Bimfirestarter
The Jehovah's false witnesses would love you. I urge anyone to investigate this further. Bimfirestarter your claims are bogus. I've seen the explanations. Why would the Bible call the Word 'a god' in the first place? Use yer head man.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@modernknightone
Thanks brother! I'll take that as a complement from a scholar such as yourself. I think I'm done with Belnnocuous. The truth isn't for everyone, they'd rather adhere to doctrines of devils to have their ears itched.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
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@BeInnocuous Well now you're sounding like the rest of your cooky friends. "No I'm not -YOU are!" Please explain this: "LDS believe in one God. The bible believes in many gods? What is yoru excuse for it?" REALLY? Please explain yourself. You pray in the name of Jesus but believe he is a seperate god. You believe god was once a man. & please enlighten me Oh Great one on the other language besides Greek, oh obsessor of the apocryphal Nag Hammadi. You do realize that Coptic is a form of Greek.
modernknightone 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous I prefer to stand with the existing 2 Billion Christians and some of the greatest minds in history: St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Thomas A Kempis, Geert Groote, Erasmus of Rotterdam, Kant, Locke, Wesley. These men believed in the truth of a Christianity that has never been lost or needed restoring. I will stand with the billion alive now and gone before. You go ahead and stand with you tiny 14 million minority and believe in your cult's cookoo heresy and satanic lies. Selah
modernknightone 1 month ago
@modernknightone
I prefer not to stand with bigots, hypocrites, whoremongers, and sign seekers.
I only stand with God. You can have you 2 billion and deny the only one that will save you. :-)
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
BTW I wanted to add this from earlier. You quoted scripture from the book you doubt (Bible), that is "not the word" in Math. 7:13 (Hell is the wide gate...etc). This is the opposite of Mormon doctrine. Mormonism's teaching on 'heaven' and 'hell' is almost entirely universalism, where 99% will reach a heavenly level. Just another Biblical contradiction in Mormonism.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@truthseeker1973
Please show me where i have doubted the Bible? Cause all you are doing is making false claims. And making false claims makes baby Jesus cry.
U R wrong about LDS & their view of Heaven. What U would call heaven would B the equivalent 2 only the 3rd level of the Celestial Kingdom. Which will only contain a small amount. All others will have a degree of hell(separation from God)as they will B rewarded according to their works unlike those that receive exaltation
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
-that seduced his flock's wives and donned a General's uniform attempting to force his militarized cult's message on others(talk about Napoleon complex)& then his army gets its ass kicked by local militias, he runs for his life and then when the sheriff comes 2 arrest him for trial, he kills the only man that could protect him with his six shooters and empties the rest of the bullets into the crowd before their rage does him in for good. Is that a martyr? Do U really want to pin your hope there?
modernknightone 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous OK Anti-Innocuous cult member pal, I can tell you I would have to go back to Kindergarten to believe in your nutball religion "popcorn poppin on the apercot tree - book of mormon stories that my brainwashed teacher indoctrinated in me". Only your so called scholars believe that the new testiment was not written in Greek. So lets see, your so called "Restored truth" was lost exactly when??... and then brought forth all that time later by an egomaniacal madman (continued)
modernknightone 1 month ago
@modernknightone
ok weak minded ad hominem is all you got blind to your own occult practices cult member dude.
You really have no basis of turth of facts... You guys simpley believe the NT is in greek because that is all we have. Read more about it... it might shock you... but then you might loose all your faith as the little proof you cling to will vanish before you eyes.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous You tiny minded lost splinter cult member The scriptures are so clear. The lastest translations of 1st and 2nd century greek (Papyrus Bodmer and Codex Sanaiticus) leave no doubt of the true meaning. But I forgot you mormons rely on the 400 yo KJV and belive you have a monopoly on correct interpretation. Read again. I did not say God or we think we are rags. The scripture says the BEST of our WORKS are as menstrual rags to God. He loves us above all other things - hence his sacrifice
modernknightone 1 month ago
@modernknightone
ad hominem... Am I in high school?
So are you saying that God only protected the Papyrus Bodmer and Codex Sanaiticus and nothing else? This is ignorance. There is a strong case against Greek being the original language.
The scriptures are nothing but tradition handed down. God is the only source of truth. You rely on your idol and i'll rely on my God.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous
In the beginning was the word, and the word WAS GOD. God puts his word above his own name (in the Bible). When Satan tempted Jesus he replied with...here it comes....the word. You are right, that God is the only source of truth, and the truth can be verified. Smith was a con, and the events in the BOM never happened.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous Its a shame that your cult has so twisted the purity of the christian message to where you arrogantly rely on yourselves for salvation. May God help you.
modernknightone 1 month ago
@modernknightone
It is a shame that you fully accepted the lie of satan.
I have never relied upon myself for salvation. Your unrighteous judgment of me only damns yourself. I've always looked to God for grace.
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
@BeInnocuous No my friend it is U that clearly don't understand the true Biblical keystone & foundation of the WHOLE Christian faith. The path indeed is narrow because there R few that have the COMPLETE faith in Christ's grace alone. Works for works sake R dead. "U are as whitened sepulchres, with naught but dead bones within" "The best of ur works are as menstrual rags to God"- This is what Christ preached. U see works R a natural byproduct growing out of faith. Faith is ALL that is necessary
modernknightone 1 month ago
@modernknightone
Where did I say works for work sake? Christ told us 2 B doers & to take his yoke upon us. Not to simply & only have faith. & for U 2 believe faith is only a belief then U either have not read the bible or do not understand it. Yes you BAC's believe yourself to be rags, this only proves that U R not Born Again, cause if U were U would not have this view of yourself. Christ preached that only those that do what he commanded are those he died for John 15: 12-14
BeInnocuous 1 month ago
Joseph was a new day charlatan.
Tsnore 1 month ago
Im a mormon and i know by heart that all this not true. why cant people just respect each others religions.? ive been a mormon my whole life and i like it and i will always like it <3
TheMileycr19 1 month ago
@TheMileycr19
Then you follow your desires for truth, and it's not TRUTH your really after. The truth isn't for everyone. Have you read the New Testament lately? It warns of false beliefs because a different gospel doesn't save, you can't follow a false Jesus, and you don't 'get' a false spirit.
truthseeker1973 1 month ago
@TheMileycr19 you are Worshping LUCIFER as JESUS THE CHRIST AKA SATAN! GET OUT and join a good christian church!!
bigcoolviking 1 month ago
@bigcoolviking
LOL. What are you worshiping?
BeInnocuous 1 month ago