Could someone explain to me why an embalmer couldn't have done this? all they had to do was wrap a body up in it surely? I mean, if its real that's how it happened anyway right?
Considering the proportions and the flow of blood from the hands are very unrealistic, I'm fairly certain that it is something someone deliberately created based on depictions of Jesus being buried. I always kind of liked the theory that da Vinci somehow made the image on a piece of really old cloth.
Everything everyone has to say is very interesting at all well and good but the most important question is where is the body that sposed to be died and wrapped up in this burial cloth. Unless of course the body got up and walked away allowing hundreds of people to see you. esdmag123@yahoo.com
Why are so many people not aware that the carbon 14 test has been debunked, by of all people, one of the original Los Alamos researchers part of that team 20 ears ago that "debunked" the shroud. Turns out the shroud had been restored centuries ago and the part that was used for the C14 test was more patch than original. This was scientifically proven. Not sure why some cling to the original notion that it was debunked. Agenda maybe?
@29condorito and others reminding us the C-14 tests of 1988 are no longer to be considered valid: Thank you! Spelling of the science journal is "Thermochimica Acta". The peer-reviewed paper by Raymond N. Rogers titled "Studies on the Radiocarbon Sample from the Shroud of Turin" is in Thermochimica Acta, Volume 425, Issues 1–2, 20 January 2005, Pages 189-194 (may be purchased online at sciencedirect dot kahm). Video on YouTube: "Discovery Channel - Unwrapping the Shroud of Turin New Evidence".
@mobilizer1964 Matthew 27:59, Mark 15:46, Luke 23:53 each say "a linen cloth" (singular). John 19:40 says "linen wrappings" (plural). John 20:5-7 refer to "the linen wrappings" and also to "the face-cloth, which had been on His head, not lying with the linen wrappings, but rolled up in a place by itself" (plausibly the Sudarium of Oviedo). The linen wrappings would then be the Shroud and the side-strip as in the video. The 75 pounds of spices could have vaporized at the moment of resurrection.
They forget two main things. The book of John 19:39-40 says they brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes weighing 75 pounds. Also, they wrapped the body in (strips of linen) with the spices. Making a cocoon, like a mummy. So in turn, when the disciples saw the burial clothes, they saw a hollow out cocoon.
@mobilizer1964 The Book of John only gave part of what happened...that the body was "bound" in strips, probably to keep the arms and legs together, and to keep the jaw from opening. In Matthew 27:59, it says, Joseph wrapped Jesus in "A" clean linen cloth. So, the strips were used to bind the body, and a single linen cloth (Shroud) was wrapped around Jesus. The Bible isn't a lesson on burial techniques, so everything will not be mentioned, like the coins on the images eyes.
Those tests are no longer valid. They accidentally tested a portion of the cloth which had been mended with newer cotton fibers in the middle ages. These newer cotton fibers were spliced in with older linen ones, rewoven, and dyed to match.
This was reported in a peer reviewed article in Thermichemica Acta in 2005, and then reconfirmed by Los Alamos Labs.
@29condorito Yes actually as I found out more about it, it seems this could be the real deal, that is if you believe in in Christ, I do, doesn't matter if people think that's crazy, I do and that's that. Amazing to think this could certainly be real.
The speed of Light is a Limiting factor! Neutrinos are moving faster than the speed of light, (CERN experiments beg for proof from Physicists), so the Physical Formuli are not written in blood, anyone's blood. The Power of GOD is Unlimited, if one can fathom this, then the Shroud can be filled with dichotomies and be both Living and Dead (2000 years old). Remember the Particle in a Well, it is there but it can be someplace else, simultaneously.
@smajdk Just because a bunch of Italian morons can't use a clock you think bits of cloth have magical powers and some sky demon who made the universe exists but is playing hide and seek. Get some meds.
The Shroud is the Shroud, Good News, GOD is the answer to your Human Frailness, seek GOD and Hear GOD's directionns for you and quit looking in the wrong place for answers. The Alpha and Omega, is not the beginning and the end, but the inconceivability of "What Is" by the Human Mind.!!!!!!!!
Hmmmmmmmmm, I get a feeling something is being left out here. Have you heard of Quantum Physics? Yes, the Physics of GOD!!!! What is isn't and what isn't is!!! Throw in the power of GOD and the systems you use are terribly inadequate to understand the workings of "The Word". Give GOD the due that is to be GOD's and you have understood what Jesus said, " Why do you ask of the workings of Heaven when you know not your own world". Faith is accepting that which one cannot know.
Philippians 2:5-11: "Christ Jesus, although He existed in the inner & outer form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be held on to, but laid aside His privileges by taking the form of a slave made in the likeness of men. He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross! So God highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow and every tongue should confess 'Jesus Christ is Lord!'"
The Part that was carbon dated was proven in another documentary to have been a later repaired area of the shroud. They need to take a new sample from another area and date that to determine its true age.
i read on wikipedia that the image of the man on the shroud was made by high energy radiation and scientists cannot get enough energy in experiments in the lab to recreate how the image was formed so guess it must be the real deal unless anyone has any new info because this is impossible to figure out
They used Starch to make the cloth back then and when it was finished washed it with soap.this left a film in the cloth that caused the picture in the cloth, there saying his body would of had to been wet to react it, they think they could of washed him, before they wrapped him. Science Don't read the Bible, When he died on the Cross, they wrapped him in the cloth.History and Pictures show this to be fact! now with that in mind, who can recall what happen as soon as Jesus died .Case & Point !
New evidence suggests the Turin Shroud was a source of inspiration for Elgar’s ‘Enigma’ Variations. The timing is right because Secondo Pia’s famous photographic negative became an international sensation five months before Elgar began work on the Variations. To learn more about the multiple connections between the Turin Shroud and the ‘Enigma’ Variations, visit enigmathemeunmasked.blogspot.com/2011/06/links-between-enigma-variations-and.html
The commentator's description of the Turin Shroud as an enigma is remarkable because that sacred cloth was a source of inspiration for Elgar's 'Enigma' Variations. To learn more about the connections between the Turin Shroud and Elgar's Variations, visit enigmathemeunmasked.blogspot.com/2011/06/links-between-enigma-variations-and.html
If you take a piece of cloth and press it all over your face, when you lay that cloth out, your cheeks are huge, and everything else gets elongated and distorted.
Whatever created the shroud image (say, radiation), it acted in a vertical direction and varied according to the distance the body was from the cloth (ie, the nose is darker than the hollow of the eyes).
There are tiny seeds of plants common in the Holy Land. No 14th century forger could have foreseen the ability to establish their presence nor to pinpoint their origin and where would he get the seeds from?
50:30-52:00 Just pure speculation, used to corroborate their hypothesis. Earlier they showed the only physical crucifixion artifact, a heel bone. From this he concludes 'the Romans crucify their victims by nailing them through the heel.' He makes this generalization based on one artifact.Also, they ignore Dr McCrone's findings, which show evidence of paint pigment in the image and blood areas.
@mjt532 The paint pigment is not the source of the image on the cloth. Besides, no painter in history could possibly conceive of a photographic negative prior to the invention of photography.
@Sirpadgett I honestly don't know whether that's true or not. McCrone's findings obviuosly contradicted STURP's. With all the contradictory evidence, it seems pretty obvious that there is a some combination of deceit and/or incompetency. I wish I knew from which side! Barrie Schwortz has made a couple of claims about the paint that make no sense at all. The photographic negative could have been produced by accident...just like a resurrection would have produced a negative by accident.
@Sirpadgett I honestly don't know whether that's true or not. McCrone's findings obviuosly contradicted STURP's. With all the contradictory evidence, it seems pretty obvious that there is a some combination of deceit and/or incompetency. I wish I knew from which side! Barrie Schwortz has made a couple of claims about the paint that make no sense at all. The photographic negative could have been produced by accident...just like a resurrection would have produced a negative by accident.
McCrone was later proven wrong by the University of Nebraska. His own lab assistant contradicted him.
The scientific consensus is that this shroud is NOT a painting. Moreover, even assuming it was, how can you paint an image that at its thickest, is thinner than the diameter of human hair? Do you seriously suppose someone painted a 3D photo negative image of a forensically accurate dead guy with a one hair brush?
As for the C14, they inadvertantly tested a mended portion.
i dont think anybody worships it..people venerate it because this very well could be the actual burial cloth of christ! What a gift that he left behind..actual PROOF of his resurrection..everything about this cloth goes exactly with the gospel accounts..the only way this image could be produced is by a great laser light..remember what Christ said "I am the light of the world".
As a Christian, it doesn't matter to me weather The Shroud of Turin is real (or not). Remember that we are to NOT worship idols (or in this case, objects...) We are only to worship ONE God! And He is with us always.
@BootboyJohnny What about the woman healed by touching the hem of His cloak or those in Acts healed by the application of cloths touched by the Apostles? You are being seriously unbiblical.
@BootboyJohnny I agree with you. But do not end all posibilities here. This could be the real burial cloth of the Lord. Maybe in the fullness of time God will allow this artifact to speak for itself through science of course. If the is proven true a lot of people will come to Christ. But as of the moment just be watchful and wait for the right time.
@BootboyJohnny this is what you get for believing "Scripture Alone" thousands of different "Christian Sects". . .how could that be. . .i pray for you. . .pray and convert
@BootboyJohnny -I agree, to a point. Remember, this may not be a Man made IDOL! Consider for a moment, if this Shroud is what it proports to be; Nothing less then the shroud which encased the body of Christ...This would mean one thing; It was left here for us by GOD, no one else!. Making it not an idol but a gift from God. No different then the tablets made by God for Moses and his people....Some have called the Shroud- The Gospel of Christ and I have to agree.
@29condorito -Point here is; Lets not make the mistake that because someone may be interested in the Shroud that they are making an 'idol' of such. What I meant by my earlier post is that one can basically look at the Shroud same as the Bible, Is the Bible idolized? No, but he who created it is, God, same with the Tablets of Moses and shall I say the Shroud. Yes me must follow the commandment but lets not misinterpret it also.
@BootboyJohnny Friend, you talk like someone who doesn't understand the definition of idolatry. Idolatry is to worship what we do NOT know. But since God has revealed Himself, the mistake becomes impossible for the one who truly comes to know God.
Images, icons, relics... are not worshiped for what they ARE (mere objects created by All Mighty God), but rather for what they REPRESENT.
Go read St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae, Third Part, Question 25.
@gerryboy101 I mean... how GREAT would it be if the shroud WAS authentic?
It's such a powerfull way to proclaim the Ressurection, to actually hold the tissu that once held His Body... We read in the Bible that people gathered only to touch Jesus' CLOTHES... The shroud is WAY more significant than that!!
People who complain about images and veneration of objets forget the HISTORICITY of Jesus... he is the Word who became FLESH and dwelled AMONG US. He is REAL, not a mere celestial figure.
thanks for posting, very interesting that with all of our technology today we still cant agree on what this shroud is, i believe its made by some kind of radiation maybe a flash of energy, something science cannot explain.
If this really is the shroud used for the burial of a crucified man in the first century, then what evidence is there that this person is Jesus as opposed to someone else? I expect most people were crucified and buried in the same way at the time.
@DaStCl87 The fact that the wounds (including the whip marks, the pulled-out beard, the tiny holes all over the scalp, consistent with a crown of thorns, etc.) match the descriptions of Christ's crucifixion. Christ was not crucified exactly like others, he was subject to torture at the hands of Herod's men and Pilate's soldiers. Also, the shroud has been kept as a Christian relic since ancient times. That, and the image was burned in with Light, unlike anything else in the world.
@StopMoColorado Very interesting! I have to admit that I am baffled by the image itself, or, rather, what caused it. I recently read an article about scientists who found that the only way to produce such an image (that they could conceive) was through a short and intense burst of UV radiation. I don't believe in the supernatural, but have to hold my hands up and admit that I can offer no alternative explanation for this one.
@DaStCl87 How many victims were mocked as a king and had a crown of thorns placed on their head? how many crucifixion victims had their legs broken to bring on death quicker..many. the image in the shroud has a spearmark in the side with is consistent with the gospel accounts and the person in the shroud had something wrapped around his head that pierced his scalp..thorns. The person in the shroud his legs were not broken and that would be unheard of in a roman crucifixion.
@DaStCl87 most victims of roman crucifixion had their legs broken in order to hasten death..the person in the shroud does not have broken legs, he has a spearmark in his side just like the gospels tell us Jesus had done to him..the person in the shroud also has wounds to the scalp consistent with a crown of thorns..this would also be consistent with the gospel accounts as the romans mocked christ as a king with a crown of thorns placed on his head.
IM WATCHING THIS CUZ I JUST READ ON THE YAHOO NEWS THAT SCIENTISTS HAVE CONCLUDED THAT THE SHROUD WAS CREATED BY A POWERFUL FLASH OF ULTRAVIOLET LIGHT ,SO ITS NOT FAKE .ITS NOT MEDIEVAL, THEY JUST DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT IT IS, OR WHAT COULD HAVE CAUSED THAT FLASH OF UV LIGHT IN ANCIENT TIMES
I am a skeptic and cynic. A logical and analytical person by nature. And, I have to say that there is so much evidence FOR the Shroud being a first century burial shroud that it's impossible to ignore its sheer volume and specificity. Pollen from Palestine? Limestone from Jerusalem? Bilirubin in the blood serum? What forger from the middle ages could predict that science would eventually discover these details? And that's only the beginning.
if this is a piece of art done by an artist in the Dark ages there should be something like it similar to it. and there is no way that the "artist know that we have photography negative in the future 700 years latter
and the carbon 14 was flawed due to the corner sample that they took
it contain 15th or 16th century weaving of the burn holes
"They believe that the portrait dates from as early as 60AD, indicating it may have been painted by someone who had actually seen Christ while he lived."
I learned some new things that the blood on both the shroud and the sudarium is AB, a very rare blood group; the proposed method of presenting the shroud in the Byzantine church by raising it up out of its box. But I recommend "Proof that the shroud of Turin is the burial cloth of Jesus Christ" on the channel of the most holy family monastery where the brother raises the possibility that the scientists responsible for the dating by carbon 14 perpetrated a fraud by using a foreign linen!
if you cant figure out how this image is placed on the cloth it doesnt matter, cause the pyramids which is more physical still isnt figured out its only speculated. crucifixtion and turture was common practise in med evil times so its not imposible to use someone, but for those religous folks that believes in christ they would no that this cloth would bare no significance or relivance to their salvation.
In Regards to all the testing done to find out if it was real or not(who in their right mind cares) Did anyone of these scientist thought about the box that the shroud was kept in, and when it melted could this had an effect on the molecular component of the material base on the metal that made the box and the fact that the cloth was being cooked in a conceiled case?
Ok lets look at the image, yes its the image of a man, was it jesus, thats the real question. Jesus died mid day there about, his bloody body taken from the cross and taken to the tomb, because the passover was drawing near they they disciples didnt have the time to prepare the body for propper burial, so it wasnt cleaned properly, wouldnt this mean more blood stain would be on the cloth
ok let see now, when did the shroud first turned up 1360? ok calculating the date to the present would mean it showed up 651 years after jesus died. Who kept it after the death of jesus< was that a practise for the jews to do? it was written that jesus appeard to the disciples after his resurection and if so why would his burial cloth still be kept by his disciples when he was not dead anymore?
@tafarimekenen A little slow on the uptake? Watch the video and you'll see that before 1204 the Shroud was the most prize holy relic of Byzantine Emperors in Constantinople. It was stolen by Crusaders then and fell into hands of French crusader Duke of Athens, from whom the 1360 owners were descended. Byzantines got it as a ransom from town of Edessa where it had been for many centuries. It was precisely because Jesus wasn't dead that disciples cd keep it, as not taboo. Portrait of the Messiah.
Could someone explain to me why an embalmer couldn't have done this? all they had to do was wrap a body up in it surely? I mean, if its real that's how it happened anyway right?
MWRiff 5 days ago
Considering the proportions and the flow of blood from the hands are very unrealistic, I'm fairly certain that it is something someone deliberately created based on depictions of Jesus being buried. I always kind of liked the theory that da Vinci somehow made the image on a piece of really old cloth.
evilemperordude 4 weeks ago
Everything everyone has to say is very interesting at all well and good but the most important question is where is the body that sposed to be died and wrapped up in this burial cloth. Unless of course the body got up and walked away allowing hundreds of people to see you. esdmag123@yahoo.com
esdmag1 4 weeks ago
Why are so many people not aware that the carbon 14 test has been debunked, by of all people, one of the original Los Alamos researchers part of that team 20 ears ago that "debunked" the shroud. Turns out the shroud had been restored centuries ago and the part that was used for the C14 test was more patch than original. This was scientifically proven. Not sure why some cling to the original notion that it was debunked. Agenda maybe?
imsneaky 4 weeks ago
evil fake??? if it is... evil is making people believe in god???
MAKES NO SENCE!!! this thing is real!!!!!
jiujitsurub 1 month ago
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@29condorito and others reminding us the C-14 tests of 1988 are no longer to be considered valid: Thank you! Spelling of the science journal is "Thermochimica Acta". The peer-reviewed paper by Raymond N. Rogers titled "Studies on the Radiocarbon Sample from the Shroud of Turin" is in Thermochimica Acta, Volume 425, Issues 1–2, 20 January 2005, Pages 189-194 (may be purchased online at sciencedirect dot kahm). Video on YouTube: "Discovery Channel - Unwrapping the Shroud of Turin New Evidence".
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@mobilizer1964 Matthew 27:59, Mark 15:46, Luke 23:53 each say "a linen cloth" (singular). John 19:40 says "linen wrappings" (plural). John 20:5-7 refer to "the linen wrappings" and also to "the face-cloth, which had been on His head, not lying with the linen wrappings, but rolled up in a place by itself" (plausibly the Sudarium of Oviedo). The linen wrappings would then be the Shroud and the side-strip as in the video. The 75 pounds of spices could have vaporized at the moment of resurrection.
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They forget two main things. The book of John 19:39-40 says they brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes weighing 75 pounds. Also, they wrapped the body in (strips of linen) with the spices. Making a cocoon, like a mummy. So in turn, when the disciples saw the burial clothes, they saw a hollow out cocoon.
mobilizer1964 1 month ago
@mobilizer1964 The Book of John only gave part of what happened...that the body was "bound" in strips, probably to keep the arms and legs together, and to keep the jaw from opening. In Matthew 27:59, it says, Joseph wrapped Jesus in "A" clean linen cloth. So, the strips were used to bind the body, and a single linen cloth (Shroud) was wrapped around Jesus. The Bible isn't a lesson on burial techniques, so everything will not be mentioned, like the coins on the images eyes.
AntichristComes 3 weeks ago
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JC was gay anyway and his mum was a slut.
cleticprincess1956 1 month ago
Carbon 14 dates the shroud at 1325, so it can't be the burial cloth of Christ, case closed.
itsallabouthejourney 1 month ago
@itsallabouthejourney
Those tests are no longer valid. They accidentally tested a portion of the cloth which had been mended with newer cotton fibers in the middle ages. These newer cotton fibers were spliced in with older linen ones, rewoven, and dyed to match.
This was reported in a peer reviewed article in Thermichemica Acta in 2005, and then reconfirmed by Los Alamos Labs.
29condorito 1 month ago
@29condorito Yes actually as I found out more about it, it seems this could be the real deal, that is if you believe in in Christ, I do, doesn't matter if people think that's crazy, I do and that's that. Amazing to think this could certainly be real.
itsallabouthejourney 1 month ago
If indeed it is the shroud of Christ, it should be open to all to see all of the time, the end.
itsallabouthejourney 1 month ago
The speed of Light is a Limiting factor! Neutrinos are moving faster than the speed of light, (CERN experiments beg for proof from Physicists), so the Physical Formuli are not written in blood, anyone's blood. The Power of GOD is Unlimited, if one can fathom this, then the Shroud can be filled with dichotomies and be both Living and Dead (2000 years old). Remember the Particle in a Well, it is there but it can be someplace else, simultaneously.
smajdk 1 month ago
@smajdk Just because a bunch of Italian morons can't use a clock you think bits of cloth have magical powers and some sky demon who made the universe exists but is playing hide and seek. Get some meds.
nilbud 1 month ago
The Shroud is the Shroud, Good News, GOD is the answer to your Human Frailness, seek GOD and Hear GOD's directionns for you and quit looking in the wrong place for answers. The Alpha and Omega, is not the beginning and the end, but the inconceivability of "What Is" by the Human Mind.!!!!!!!!
smajdk 1 month ago
Hmmmmmmmmm, I get a feeling something is being left out here. Have you heard of Quantum Physics? Yes, the Physics of GOD!!!! What is isn't and what isn't is!!! Throw in the power of GOD and the systems you use are terribly inadequate to understand the workings of "The Word". Give GOD the due that is to be GOD's and you have understood what Jesus said, " Why do you ask of the workings of Heaven when you know not your own world". Faith is accepting that which one cannot know.
smajdk 1 month ago
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Philippians 2:5-11: "Christ Jesus, although He existed in the inner & outer form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be held on to, but laid aside His privileges by taking the form of a slave made in the likeness of men. He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross! So God highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow and every tongue should confess 'Jesus Christ is Lord!'"
randwolfray 1 month ago
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randwolfray 1 month ago
The Part that was carbon dated was proven in another documentary to have been a later repaired area of the shroud. They need to take a new sample from another area and date that to determine its true age.
ahmalala 1 month ago
My question is this .....why not be optimistic....why all the negativity?
nnl1972 1 month ago
@nnl1972 I think they're trying not to sound to biased and thus incur the wrath of bad reviews...
blackoutninja 1 month ago
i read on wikipedia that the image of the man on the shroud was made by high energy radiation and scientists cannot get enough energy in experiments in the lab to recreate how the image was formed so guess it must be the real deal unless anyone has any new info because this is impossible to figure out
shredmaster100 1 month ago
They used Starch to make the cloth back then and when it was finished washed it with soap.this left a film in the cloth that caused the picture in the cloth, there saying his body would of had to been wet to react it, they think they could of washed him, before they wrapped him. Science Don't read the Bible, When he died on the Cross, they wrapped him in the cloth.History and Pictures show this to be fact! now with that in mind, who can recall what happen as soon as Jesus died .Case & Point !
JCDennis62 1 month ago
New evidence suggests the Turin Shroud was a source of inspiration for Elgar’s ‘Enigma’ Variations. The timing is right because Secondo Pia’s famous photographic negative became an international sensation five months before Elgar began work on the Variations. To learn more about the multiple connections between the Turin Shroud and the ‘Enigma’ Variations, visit enigmathemeunmasked.blogspot.com/2011/06/links-between-enigma-variations-and.html
Sirpadgett 1 month ago
The commentator's description of the Turin Shroud as an enigma is remarkable because that sacred cloth was a source of inspiration for Elgar's 'Enigma' Variations. To learn more about the connections between the Turin Shroud and Elgar's Variations, visit enigmathemeunmasked.blogspot.com/2011/06/links-between-enigma-variations-and.html
Sirpadgett 1 month ago
@15:20 can someone explain that better for me??
blackoutninja 1 month ago
@blackoutninja
If you take a piece of cloth and press it all over your face, when you lay that cloth out, your cheeks are huge, and everything else gets elongated and distorted.
Whatever created the shroud image (say, radiation), it acted in a vertical direction and varied according to the distance the body was from the cloth (ie, the nose is darker than the hollow of the eyes).
29condorito 1 month ago
@29condorito ah right, I get it.
Thanks :)
blackoutninja 1 month ago
There are tiny seeds of plants common in the Holy Land. No 14th century forger could have foreseen the ability to establish their presence nor to pinpoint their origin and where would he get the seeds from?
Estaban333 1 month ago
50:30-52:00 Just pure speculation, used to corroborate their hypothesis. Earlier they showed the only physical crucifixion artifact, a heel bone. From this he concludes 'the Romans crucify their victims by nailing them through the heel.' He makes this generalization based on one artifact.Also, they ignore Dr McCrone's findings, which show evidence of paint pigment in the image and blood areas.
mjt532 1 month ago
@mjt532 The paint pigment is not the source of the image on the cloth. Besides, no painter in history could possibly conceive of a photographic negative prior to the invention of photography.
Sirpadgett 1 month ago
@Sirpadgett I honestly don't know whether that's true or not. McCrone's findings obviuosly contradicted STURP's. With all the contradictory evidence, it seems pretty obvious that there is a some combination of deceit and/or incompetency. I wish I knew from which side! Barrie Schwortz has made a couple of claims about the paint that make no sense at all. The photographic negative could have been produced by accident...just like a resurrection would have produced a negative by accident.
mjt532 1 month ago
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@Sirpadgett I honestly don't know whether that's true or not. McCrone's findings obviuosly contradicted STURP's. With all the contradictory evidence, it seems pretty obvious that there is a some combination of deceit and/or incompetency. I wish I knew from which side! Barrie Schwortz has made a couple of claims about the paint that make no sense at all. The photographic negative could have been produced by accident...just like a resurrection would have produced a negative by accident.
mjt532 1 month ago
@mjt532
McCrone was later proven wrong by the University of Nebraska. His own lab assistant contradicted him.
The scientific consensus is that this shroud is NOT a painting. Moreover, even assuming it was, how can you paint an image that at its thickest, is thinner than the diameter of human hair? Do you seriously suppose someone painted a 3D photo negative image of a forensically accurate dead guy with a one hair brush?
As for the C14, they inadvertantly tested a mended portion.
29condorito 1 month ago
@29condorito Haven't seen that evidence. Do you have a source?
mjt532 1 month ago
i dont think anybody worships it..people venerate it because this very well could be the actual burial cloth of christ! What a gift that he left behind..actual PROOF of his resurrection..everything about this cloth goes exactly with the gospel accounts..the only way this image could be produced is by a great laser light..remember what Christ said "I am the light of the world".
2011packattack 2 months ago
Carbon 14 testing is totally inaccurate...it doesnt show you anything in its true age...or even close 1!!
wka656 2 months ago
As a Christian, it doesn't matter to me weather The Shroud of Turin is real (or not). Remember that we are to NOT worship idols (or in this case, objects...) We are only to worship ONE God! And He is with us always.
BootboyJohnny 2 months ago 6
@BootboyJohnny As a follower of Christ I completely agree with you.
nasirjohn 2 months ago 4
@BootboyJohnny What about the woman healed by touching the hem of His cloak or those in Acts healed by the application of cloths touched by the Apostles? You are being seriously unbiblical.
Estaban333 1 month ago
@BootboyJohnny PS if this persuades even one person to look closer into Christianity, then it is a very good thing and it has done more than that.
Estaban333 1 month ago 2
@BootboyJohnny The Lord DOES confirm HIS WORD with signs following.
GodsSeer 1 month ago
@BootboyJohnny I agree with you. But do not end all posibilities here. This could be the real burial cloth of the Lord. Maybe in the fullness of time God will allow this artifact to speak for itself through science of course. If the is proven true a lot of people will come to Christ. But as of the moment just be watchful and wait for the right time.
joab302016 1 month ago
@BootboyJohnny It's not about idolizing the Turin Shroud, it's about discovering whether it could be the burial cloth of Christ. Not worshiping it.
itsallabouthejourney 1 month ago
@BootboyJohnny this is what you get for believing "Scripture Alone" thousands of different "Christian Sects". . .how could that be. . .i pray for you. . .pray and convert
aldaine3june29 1 month ago
@BootboyJohnny -I agree, to a point. Remember, this may not be a Man made IDOL! Consider for a moment, if this Shroud is what it proports to be; Nothing less then the shroud which encased the body of Christ...This would mean one thing; It was left here for us by GOD, no one else!. Making it not an idol but a gift from God. No different then the tablets made by God for Moses and his people....Some have called the Shroud- The Gospel of Christ and I have to agree.
Flagrum3 3 weeks ago
@Flagrum3
People with fixations over idols should realize that you can make anything an idol.
An idol is something which is elevated into the divine. But you can put your own family over god. Why focus on relics?
And if you can elevate your own family over God, the opposite is ALSO true: you can legitimately enjoy your family as log as God comes FIRST.
Why should this be any different for the Shroud?
29condorito 3 weeks ago
@29condorito -Point here is; Lets not make the mistake that because someone may be interested in the Shroud that they are making an 'idol' of such. What I meant by my earlier post is that one can basically look at the Shroud same as the Bible, Is the Bible idolized? No, but he who created it is, God, same with the Tablets of Moses and shall I say the Shroud. Yes me must follow the commandment but lets not misinterpret it also.
F3
Flagrum3 3 weeks ago
@BootboyJohnny Friend, you talk like someone who doesn't understand the definition of idolatry. Idolatry is to worship what we do NOT know. But since God has revealed Himself, the mistake becomes impossible for the one who truly comes to know God.
Images, icons, relics... are not worshiped for what they ARE (mere objects created by All Mighty God), but rather for what they REPRESENT.
Go read St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae, Third Part, Question 25.
Easy to find on the internet
Pax tecum
Gazdo01 2 weeks ago
@Gazdo01 amen bro, i was just going to post after thumbing down his comment. the shroud is worth veneration. it is not worshiped. lol
gerryboy101 1 week ago
@gerryboy101 I mean... how GREAT would it be if the shroud WAS authentic?
It's such a powerfull way to proclaim the Ressurection, to actually hold the tissu that once held His Body... We read in the Bible that people gathered only to touch Jesus' CLOTHES... The shroud is WAY more significant than that!!
People who complain about images and veneration of objets forget the HISTORICITY of Jesus... he is the Word who became FLESH and dwelled AMONG US. He is REAL, not a mere celestial figure.
Gazdo01 1 week ago
@BootboyJohnny I'm not worshipping it. I just think it would be cool to see Jesus' face!
Android111598 1 week ago
@BootboyJohnny It's still intriguing to think of why Illuminati would preserve it so long in the Vatican. Must be some ritual.
cosmosmonger 1 week ago
thanks for posting, very interesting that with all of our technology today we still cant agree on what this shroud is, i believe its made by some kind of radiation maybe a flash of energy, something science cannot explain.
DAVERUKY 2 months ago
If this really is the shroud used for the burial of a crucified man in the first century, then what evidence is there that this person is Jesus as opposed to someone else? I expect most people were crucified and buried in the same way at the time.
DaStCl87 2 months ago
@DaStCl87 The fact that the wounds (including the whip marks, the pulled-out beard, the tiny holes all over the scalp, consistent with a crown of thorns, etc.) match the descriptions of Christ's crucifixion. Christ was not crucified exactly like others, he was subject to torture at the hands of Herod's men and Pilate's soldiers. Also, the shroud has been kept as a Christian relic since ancient times. That, and the image was burned in with Light, unlike anything else in the world.
StopMoColorado 2 months ago 2
@StopMoColorado Very interesting! I have to admit that I am baffled by the image itself, or, rather, what caused it. I recently read an article about scientists who found that the only way to produce such an image (that they could conceive) was through a short and intense burst of UV radiation. I don't believe in the supernatural, but have to hold my hands up and admit that I can offer no alternative explanation for this one.
DaStCl87 2 months ago
@DaStCl87 How many victims were mocked as a king and had a crown of thorns placed on their head? how many crucifixion victims had their legs broken to bring on death quicker..many. the image in the shroud has a spearmark in the side with is consistent with the gospel accounts and the person in the shroud had something wrapped around his head that pierced his scalp..thorns. The person in the shroud his legs were not broken and that would be unheard of in a roman crucifixion.
2011packattack 2 months ago
@DaStCl87 most victims of roman crucifixion had their legs broken in order to hasten death..the person in the shroud does not have broken legs, he has a spearmark in his side just like the gospels tell us Jesus had done to him..the person in the shroud also has wounds to the scalp consistent with a crown of thorns..this would also be consistent with the gospel accounts as the romans mocked christ as a king with a crown of thorns placed on his head.
2011packattack 2 months ago 2
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IM WATCHING THIS CUZ I JUST READ ON THE YAHOO NEWS THAT SCIENTISTS HAVE CONCLUDED THAT THE SHROUD WAS CREATED BY A POWERFUL FLASH OF ULTRAVIOLET LIGHT ,SO ITS NOT FAKE .ITS NOT MEDIEVAL, THEY JUST DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT IT IS, OR WHAT COULD HAVE CAUSED THAT FLASH OF UV LIGHT IN ANCIENT TIMES
satyrisisxxx 2 months ago
carbon14 is pseudoscience anyway
satyrisisxxx 2 months ago
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How could the shroud reveal such detail about the face of Jesua?
Jesua was beaten beyond recognition. To the point at which he no longer appeared human. How could this shroud depict Jesua?
h4s4t4n 2 months ago
Comment removed
SelectiveLostMemory 2 months ago
Of course the shroud isn't what it is suppose to be but it is a symbol faith
callasexperience 2 months ago
I am a skeptic and cynic. A logical and analytical person by nature. And, I have to say that there is so much evidence FOR the Shroud being a first century burial shroud that it's impossible to ignore its sheer volume and specificity. Pollen from Palestine? Limestone from Jerusalem? Bilirubin in the blood serum? What forger from the middle ages could predict that science would eventually discover these details? And that's only the beginning.
It's impossible that this is a forgery.
FAX
FAX335 2 months ago 3
@FAX335
Yes. Jesus must've been 2-dimensional, like a stick figure, to get such a perfect representation of him.
FlashVirus 2 months ago
@FAX335 - Merry Christmas!
hungrytickets 2 months ago
@FAX335 I think your right....but how did the image get on there?
Albertanator 1 month ago
Fascinating, but I wish that the presenter would keep his arms and hands still!
dandyhall1 2 months ago
if this is a piece of art done by an artist in the Dark ages there should be something like it similar to it. and there is no way that the "artist know that we have photography negative in the future 700 years latter
and the carbon 14 was flawed due to the corner sample that they took
it contain 15th or 16th century weaving of the burn holes
kimura2Loc 3 months ago
when Jesus resurrected, the energy from the resurrection made the image like a gamma ray burst
kimura2Loc 3 months ago
"They believe that the portrait dates from as early as 60AD, indicating it may have been painted by someone who had actually seen Christ while he lived."
Except there is NO PAINT ON IT.
PrincesseJen 3 months ago
I learned some new things that the blood on both the shroud and the sudarium is AB, a very rare blood group; the proposed method of presenting the shroud in the Byzantine church by raising it up out of its box. But I recommend "Proof that the shroud of Turin is the burial cloth of Jesus Christ" on the channel of the most holy family monastery where the brother raises the possibility that the scientists responsible for the dating by carbon 14 perpetrated a fraud by using a foreign linen!
eckrich60 3 months ago
What the hell is up with the sound? Only coming out on the right channel........
asianmacker 3 months ago
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pedrolevy3 3 months ago
if you cant figure out how this image is placed on the cloth it doesnt matter, cause the pyramids which is more physical still isnt figured out its only speculated. crucifixtion and turture was common practise in med evil times so its not imposible to use someone, but for those religous folks that believes in christ they would no that this cloth would bare no significance or relivance to their salvation.
tafarimekenen 6 months ago
In Regards to all the testing done to find out if it was real or not(who in their right mind cares) Did anyone of these scientist thought about the box that the shroud was kept in, and when it melted could this had an effect on the molecular component of the material base on the metal that made the box and the fact that the cloth was being cooked in a conceiled case?
tafarimekenen 6 months ago
Ok lets look at the image, yes its the image of a man, was it jesus, thats the real question. Jesus died mid day there about, his bloody body taken from the cross and taken to the tomb, because the passover was drawing near they they disciples didnt have the time to prepare the body for propper burial, so it wasnt cleaned properly, wouldnt this mean more blood stain would be on the cloth
tafarimekenen 6 months ago
ok let see now, when did the shroud first turned up 1360? ok calculating the date to the present would mean it showed up 651 years after jesus died. Who kept it after the death of jesus< was that a practise for the jews to do? it was written that jesus appeard to the disciples after his resurection and if so why would his burial cloth still be kept by his disciples when he was not dead anymore?
tafarimekenen 6 months ago
@tafarimekenen A little slow on the uptake? Watch the video and you'll see that before 1204 the Shroud was the most prize holy relic of Byzantine Emperors in Constantinople. It was stolen by Crusaders then and fell into hands of French crusader Duke of Athens, from whom the 1360 owners were descended. Byzantines got it as a ransom from town of Edessa where it had been for many centuries. It was precisely because Jesus wasn't dead that disciples cd keep it, as not taboo. Portrait of the Messiah.
Porphyrygrampus 3 months ago
high definition in 360p
giorgiv18 6 months ago