Interesting video. The missionary was trying to convince the tribe to convert, but he came to realize that they were just fine (as opposed to "lost") without his Jesus. He even learned some lessons about life from them. And the missionary finally realized that not only did the tribe not need Jesus, but he didn't need him either. (Besides, Jesus is dead.)
I wish this had millions of views. This is one of the first deconversion stories I heard when I deconverted as well. It was extremely powerful at the time, and it continues to be extremely powerful now. The crux of my loss of faith came when I really started to look at our world in the big picture and saw no universality of a supposed need for salvation. This story is the epitome of that. Thank you for sharing!
You could repent. Moreover, you could ask God for eternal forgiveness through applying the death and resurrection of Jesus to your life of sin within the quietness of your bedroom tonight. As an unrepentant sinner myself, I made this decision around 15 years ago. This is the most important decision that you could ever make. - Romans 10:9-10
I have used a part of your video, which I also translated and subtitled in Greek. Video respond here is just a trailer, without your staff. If you follow link in my Y/T video's description, uc the whole. There others 2, not only Hitch that same similar with Pirahas.Watch it, you find many surprises
@qqquigley dorry for the delay it's taking me ages to find it, I'm sifting through blogs and forums like Debunking christianity and Richard Dawkins net.
He reveals the irony of Christian values of joy and love when it is rooted in fear. There's fear of hell and of divine wrath but more than any of that is a fear of having family and loved ones and the church going cold on you as soon as you don't live up to the status quo imposed on you. It is so intellectually dishonest and empty and hypocritical that it shattered my own faith which was stronger than anyone in my immediate family and church group, some would say.
He never read the book "Eternity in Their Hearts", written by a missionary who found that every tribe he visited had a concept of a Creator. He learned that that's where most missionaries should start - with the Creator. That wouldn't have worked with this group, but it would've been better than selling them Jesus. The other mistake this guy made, which they pointed out, was not telling them that it's not necessary to live like an American to worship God. Well, I hope this guy is at peace.
@xander7ful I doubt there would be too many Evangelicals that would be thrilled with the fact that they like to drink a lot and the men like more than one woman! The modern Evangelical movement is an American phenomena, rooted in the Great Awakening. Missionaries are not only bringing their religious message, but also the cultural trappings that go along with it, which, as I stated, are generally American or Western.
@xander7ful He did talk to them about the concept of a Creator. He spoke about it in the video. He said that they do not believe the world was created, so they have no need to conceptualize a Creator. I'm sure he did tell them they don't have to be Americans to worship God. Just because he didn't go into detail about that in the video, you assume he didn't make that obvious point? Sounds like you're digging for reasons to discredit his efforts. He was trying to do "God's" work.
@thekatiejones9 You either didn't read what I said or didn't want to. I said, "The other mistake this guy made, WHICH THEY POINTED OUT, was not telling them that it's not necessary to live like an American to worship God." I am not trying to discredit his work. I was a born-again Christian for 25 years & part of a conservative Charismatic church for 10. I left all of it for Paganism, the New Age & Occult for 6 years, came back, & now am back to Pagan/Occult. I've been on both sides.
@xander7ful I've been on both sides as well, and I don't see how that's relevant. I hear now how he equates rejection of Jesus as rejections of himself, which does imply that he was conceding to their point that worshiping God is worshiping like him, which means worshiping as an American. Sorry I misunderstood your point. I wouldn't necessary call that a mistake, though, considering he was expressing his own understanding.
@thekatiejones9 I thought it was relevant that I've been on both sides simply to point out that I'm not biased for or against this missionary. If he equates worshiping God with worshiping like an American, then he wasn't taught properly that it's alright to develop an indigenous worship style. The Woadani tribe in Ecuador, that was reached by the 5 missionaries killed in 1956, has developed its own set of worship songs.
There may be lots of different theologies, and Christians who claim to be rational and Christians who claim to revere science. But who cares? The fundamental core belief of Christians is some guy (who is only evidenced by one moldy book put together from word of mouth folk tales and hearsay, without any historical facts to back up his existence) is the prime mover in their lives and is going to affect them after their death. Christianity is absurd at its core, no matter the mitigating factors.
@LaerenMisha You have no idea what you are saying. From a logical stand point, if there is a creation, there is a creater. From a scientific point, over 300 prophesies were fulfilled, and most importantly, my life- from an addict to a born again christian turned around in one day. I have also been gifted by the Holy God with a spiritual Gift. So, who should I believe 3 witnesses and a Jesus who changed my life, or that the earth is flat?
@Outd00rFishing "From a logical stand point, if there is a creation, there is a creater"
Since you raised the point that we used to think the earth is flat, I will add we also used to think the earth was at the center of the universe. It's not and it's not. So what makes you so certain your "logic" is sound, especially when we simply don't understand how the universe came to be?
@Outd00rFishing "From a scientific point, over 300 prophesies were fulfilled"
I'm sorry, but you can't just make an assertion like that without giving supporting evidence. Please support your comment if you want anyone here to think that you are a logical or critical thinker.
@Outd00rFishing "my life- from an addict to a born again christian"
I am happy for you, but it is easier for me to believe that a person came to a place in their life when he had enough motivation to turn his life around. That seems more likely than some supernatural event.
I too have been in the depths of despair, but it was Buddhism that gave me more comfort than Christianity for me.
What I realized is that I'm responsible for my mental health, that's when real personal growth takes place.
@burkerow Explain to a pedophile that it is wrong to be a pedophile. The cause is SIN! Only Jesus can wash away that sin and destroy the connection between a human and Satan with his blood. Buddha can not do that because he isn't real. An image created so that man can worship anything he likes. It is no wonder why there are so many Gods and false teachers out there. I say unto you to repent and turn away from your life. Jesus is the life! You only get one chance in this life.
@Outd00rFishing "Explain that it is wrong to be a pedophile. The cause is SIN!"
Of course it's wrong to be a pedophile, but not for the reasons you think it is, and that's the sad part of this.
From a purely naturalistic viewpoint it probably is not wrong. Animals will attempt to mate after puberty. For humans females that's about 7 to 13 years.
Modern cultures have decided to protect children from sex until 18 which is mostly arbitrary. Consequently it causes harm to violate these norms.
@Outd00rFishing Pedophilia is not a sin anymore than murder is a sin. These things you call sin cause harm to others and to a civilized society and ultimately to oneself; that's what makes them wrong.
@Outd00rFishing "Buddha can not do that because he isn't real."
First; I'm not Buddhist. I did study Buddhist philosophy during a time when I was in my own depths of despair and found it to be more helpful than Christianity.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of men of old, seek what they sought. Each of us must find our own way and in our own time."
It is usually a devastating loss that brings most of us to our knees, and if we're strong we use loss to grow into mentally mature adults.
@burkerow You were never a Christian. I'm not saying this for the sake of hatred because I guarantee that if you had met the creator you would never say anything like what you just wrote. There are hundreds of people that professed they were Christian and know not God. I firmly believe that if you even spent 80yrs of your life being an atheist and God truly did the good work in you, you would be transformed in an instant! I say this to you because I did the same thing in my life...
@burkerow PART 2: ... because in my life, I grew up knowing the language. I was preached the love, the gospel, the truth, etc, but I never met the creator. BUT when God touched me with his spirit, an addicted worthless failure, it was the equivalent of putting me in a body scanner and cleansing the junk out of me in spiritual form. My desires were killed with one prayer, in one second, I could profess the name of Christ with more boldness than ever before! cont...
@burkerow Part 3: ...the fact is this. Being a Christian is when your life shows that fruit. When man is born, we know nothing but sin. We love it too. The greed, the money, pride, adultery at heart (lust for women), etc. Pedophiles and murderers were no different than who I was. I practiced sin not because I wanted to, but because I loved it. I couldn't even imagine living without it because it was so great in my life! It is only the supernatural event that God can do to change you...
@burkerow PART 4: to close... Today, from what I went through, and from what God showed me through prayer, I can repeatedly tell you with boldness that you were never a Christian. The only way to God is through Jesus the son. I know that we as men do not even want to grasp the idea of God in our lives... but that is overcome through Jesus, any sin, as simple as it sounds, it is all sin! If you even had one spec of faith, based on what you've been told, you would be on your knees alrdy
@Outd00rFishing "So, who should I believe 3 witnesses and a Jesus who changed my life, or that the earth is flat?"
Your comment above is what would be known in critical thinking as a "false dichotomy" which is a logical fallacy. I think you threw it in here as a distraction from logical thinking, similar to a red herring.
You had a personal growth experience which you attribute to Jesus.
@LaerenMisha "some guy (who is only evidenced by one moldy book put together from word of mouth folk tales and hearsay, without any historical facts to back up his existence"
Jesus (as a man) almost certainly existed, scholars almost universally agree on that. His miracles and his status of deity are the things that one can argue are myth.
But you are correct in saying that Christianity is absurd.
"The piraha's have shown me that theres dignity and deep satisfaction in facing life and death with out the comfort of heaven or the fear of hell and in sailing toward the great abyss with a smile."
@pigeonpsycho The crazy homeless people who live in my neighborhood also hear voices in their heads every day. You're not unique. Crazy maybe, but not unique.
This is an amazing story. These simple tribal people have succeeded in advancing philosophically and intellectually where the entire western world has battled and failed for centuries.
Christians use fear to scare people into conversion. The fear of Hell. Why shove your beliefs down others throats promising happiness if those who you're trying to convert are already happy? fuck missionaries and their destroying of culture. Christians worship the word of King James. It's not even the matter of believing in what can't be seen, it's using your brain and common sense with the aid of science. get real. grow up and face life with responsibility.
@jlause421 There are lots of different theology and Christians. Nowadays the doctrine of hell is not interpreted as everlasting suffering but a metaphor for the state of everlasting detachment from God or eternal disappearance. King James version is not an updated Bible. All you said, 'using your brain and common sense with the aid of science. get real. grow up and face life with responsibility', is totally necessary and possible for modern, rational, liberal and sincere Christians.
becasue of christianity no where in world people are loosing their culture unless it is barbarian, can we think the Piraha people are not in darkness living very good life? Why as a christian missionary he went to save Piraha people, why not as an individual? leave about heven and hell, the outcome of his christian efforts brought those people into light, after he left christianity how much he was able to serve those people?
Christianity is all about Serving people, just a motivation to help
In his biography he claims he's been an atheist long before he went to this place for missionary work, the only reason he was a missionary is because he was born into a family of them. So the title is wrong.
The point is not to push over Christians by pointing out "HEY LOOK HOW EASY IT IS TO CONVINCE 'THEM' OTHER WISE" . It's the culture of these people that live with a warming love that goes outside of so called omniscient love following. As this short video clearly represents from his novel that these people live in light without Jesus. Regardless of conversion of some 'missionary' the point still stands. There is love and acceptance of death by these people.
I think it's important to note your point is moot. Having no relativity to the material here only pointing out the title can be misunderstood. After all, if you're on a 'mission' for spreading Christian values and scripture doesn't that make the 'mission' a 'Christian mission' and the missionary-one for Christ? Relevance of genuine belief and the sake of conversion from the strength of that belief is NOT THE POINT OF THIS VIDEO.
THE POINT IS-to reiterate this further-PEOPLE LIVE WITHOUT JESUS OR GOD OR FEAR OF DEATH AND STILL LOVE EACH OTHER AND DO NOT KILL ONE ANOTHER. pretty important message don't you think? Gee whiz.
@IHaveYourSealab Well i dont find it important because the fact that some people do believe in jesus does not offend me. I am very secure with myself in that regard and feel no need to lash out. Now if you want my thoughts on the topic, i think it could be answered by Jesus himself. There's a part in new testament where he and his desciples wandered upon a group of non-believers, and they criticize them. Jesus said "Hush, they keep my commandments closer than you do, learn from them". U mad?
U mad bro? is again not relative to say here. You shared information, thank you that is helpful. Not like your first comment about the title. To focus on the title doesn't merit anything past that, only insinuations will do that. However, I could not let your original comment stay on it's own as it can cloud future viewers perspective on the video. Again, thank you for your reply to my response as it does further the source information here. U r disappoint?
I have no problem believing his story. I don't really like to attack some of the doctrines of so-called "biblical Christianity" -- I sort of feel gentle about it. But Biblical Christianity has some difficult problems in its Soteriology which this person pointed out. He is not the first person to explore those problems deeply and come away with his faith shaken or destroyed. That's the problem with too much attachment to false ideas in the name of God.
@nightsongs1970 Thats not true at all, it could just be possible that there is more to the world than he could have realized and saw that there was no need for faith. Such a thing happened to me and it's not sad at all, looking at things realistically is far more satisfying actually.
“Be sure that you first preach by the way you live. If you do not, people will notice that...” (St. Charles Borromeo, Cardinal-Archbishop and Confessor, Patron Saint of Catechists, Catechumens and Seminarians)
As a christian, I always found strange that christians boast that we are all sinners and that's okay - because we are saved if we just say 'I love you jesus', and off course, that poor little middle-eastern was killed by his own people and friends to isent us for all past and future sins.
The ultimate display of a follower. He stopped believing in something primarily because everyone around him didn't believe in it. "Comfort in heaven, and fear of hell" is not the true basis of faith. When one thinks that it is, they end up like this gentleman
@rgatlin04 You said he was a follower due him becoming an atheist after being immersed in the Pirahã culture for so long. The same can be said for any adherent to any religion due to being immersed in their particular "culture" i.e. people in America being mostly christian, mostly hindu in India etc.
@jwhyte67 You're statement is true. However, it has nothing to do with the one i made. Read it again, i didn't say he was a follower for switching faiths. I said he was because of the reason he did. Based on this video, he began to have doubt in what he believed because the tribe laughed at him and didn't want to hear it. Not because he heard any new revelation or argument. Regardless of what faith he holds and forsakes, these actions are that of a follower
this only shows that those people are stupid. while it is good that they are living in the present, they will be oblivious to the concept of christ or immortal fetus and enlightenment.
@gingowitch No they are not stupid, why are they stupid? because they don't believe in god. THey don't need god in their lives, they live happy lives they don't need myth and superstition and false promises of an afterlife to live their life. The time is now and the place is here, they don't believe in god because there is no evidence for god, this is a fact.
@gingowitch proper teaching? for what? they live in the rainforest, why do they need to become doctors, lawyers, etc? they get the teaching they need from their elders on how to survive and live in the forest.
@gingowitch Real enlightenment is living in the present and being a utilitarian. Star gazing is enlightenment when you can just gaze into the abyss and be perfectly happy.
@howitzer24 no, enlightenment is very specific. it can be seen as a dim white light in your head, the moon in your head as though in a area, or you are in a dark place at night and all of a sudden everything turns bright as though the sun is shining, and if you don't have a care in the world, the true nature of your mind reveals itself to you.
This is old news im sure most of the natives around the world thought the same way the Pirahã did except they were killed and the survivors brainwashed.
@deewoken1 That is why they don't question the same things caucasians do. Simple as that . He was so brainwashed by multiculturalism and diversity that he was unable to see the truth
haha.. that guy had a existential crisis.. i wish this would happen to all those colonialist jesus asshole who try to impose their nonsensical believe upon indigenous people of the world.
@rey9883 I don't get the point. All I'm saying is this is the best bet if you're going to gamble, and otherwise it's all nothingness. If you're right, the outcome is the same regardless what a person does or believes in. So why bother debating?
Interesting! There should be more people like this tribe. The important thing is to be happy not to reach for some sort of pre explained happieness. This tribe should send "their missionaries" to the world!
This is exactly what I've been saying... religion does nothing for a person who doesn't feel lost and doomed - a common mindset in the dark ages that I suppose has come culturally today with western and middle-eastern peoples. The people who quote doctrine to people who don't believe in a divine being are doing nothing for their cause (@GodLovesUs100). Give it a couple of centuries - monotheistic depressive and restrictive religions are dissapearing because they no longer serve humanity.
Loved the video. Bought his book, "Don't Sleep, There are Snakes" I'm about 2/3 of the way through, enjoying it quite a bit. Will update and give more feedback when I am done the book.
faith is the challenge of denying all logic and reason for the promise of heaven, heaven isn't what you think it is read the bible Christians you'll find out how much bowing and kissing gods ass you'll do.
@ThinkerResearcher Well if you read 1 John 2:19, you will see that if someone leaves the faith, it shows they were never of it.Why?B/c if God has truly saved someone, he will not fail in keeping them saved and always drawing them back to himself.A Christian is someone who has been re-created and given a new nature and have been given the Spirit of God.There are countless times where I myself would have left by now, but the Lord always draws me back by his grace.
@GodLovesUs100 Your a slave to religion like a child who can't let go of an imaginary friend. You are the slave and god is your master. very interesting why would you need a master unless your a slave.
@Tethloach1 Yes I very well am a Slave of God, that is what a Christian is.Everyone is a slave to something and there are only two options: you're either a slave to sin( so therefore to Satan) or you're a slave of righteousness(therefore a slave of God).
@GodLovesUs100 oh you sad sad monkey. only one who you are a slave is your self. you rather be happy then right? that is fine. but if you step on the thoes of science. you will be defeated. there mostliekly is no god, and if there is, it is definetly not your god. the god if christianity is inferior to majority of gods. but christian god is orginaly just tribal god. while the gods of many other relgions are celestial from the start. your god is spiced and pached. weak and pathetic.
@gethsoftware Spoken like a true pagan. Your hatred against God only proves what the Bible says about an unregenerate heart turning from the Living God.Unbelief is not an intellectual issue it is a moral issue.If God in the Bible just claimed to be a God who didn't care how we lived and just gave us an awesome place to live when we died, no one would have a problem believing in God.But b/c God is holy and we are not, b/c we are held accountable to him, the wicked heart turns naturally from him
@GodLovesUs100 "the wicked" are usually normal, every day people who either don't worship your savior or are people who are culturally isolated from Christendom, yet according to your dehumanizing religion they are doomed for hell. Your belief system causes more harm than good and you have done enough damage to nonbelievers as far as I'm concerned.
@TheGreaterGood80 actually everyone on the planet in their natural state is wicked.All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and in the sight of a perfectly Just and holy God, are filthy sinners.Jesus is the only one who bore our sins and died in our place, the one who rose again.Sinners need a Savior.Only those who realize their depravity and are broken over their sin, placing their trust in Jesus and turning from their lifestyle of rebellion can find life.
@fahadshippuden These claims from Zaeigeist have already been shown to be irrational and untrue.Not one person can provide a single Pagan source dated any time before Christ that would prove these claims.The best they've got is actually things that were written AFTER the time of Jesus.So likely they stole from him, not the other way around.The only B.C sources on Jesus Christ are the hundreds of prophecies written about him in the old testament.
Zeitgeist is rubbish but there are many similarities between "Pagan" gods and Jesus that existed prior to the (alledged) birth of Jesus. Prometheus for instance existed in Greek writing since late 8th century BCE. Most of the Old Testament wasn't even written then. The similarities between the Jesus myth and the Mithras myth are many. The only difference really is that the Jesus myths is still believed by many and he is still worshipped today.
@Draugh39 I've read about Promtheus and I don't see what you're talking about.Jesus Christ is a completely unquie character and that is undeniable once you start to learn more about him.The only B.C manuscipts that point to him are the ones of the Old Testament where over 300 prophecies are given about the coming Messiah, and Jesus fulfilled them all.What makes you assume all religion is a subjective experience rather than a divine revelation?
Bollocks. You need to learn some more about the Bible. Jesus didn't fulfil all Messianic prophesies. If he had there wouldn't be any Jews! The Messiah must be a direct descendant of David through the family of Solomon (1 Chronicles 22:9-l0). According to the Genealogy of Luke (3:23–38) Jesus isn't. According to Matthews list he is a descendant of Jeconiah and thus can't inherit (Jeremiah 22:28-30). Both lines invalidates him.
@Draugh39 He is according to matthew, two geneaologies are given to show Jesus fullfilling this prochecy twice fold.When it comes to Jeconiah, you make an important point.His physical decendant would be cursed.How then would God bring forth the Messiah?Answer: Jesus was not physically related to Joesph and yet still legally his heir.Jews(though not all) reject Jesus b/c they do not like the gospel, not because he did not fullfill prophecy.Israel has been in a state of apostasy for a long time
@Draugh39 He is according to matthew, two geneaologies are given to show Jesus fullfilling this prochecy twice fold.When it comes to Jeconiah, you make an important point.His physical decendant would be cursed.How then would God bring forth the Messiah?Answer: Jesus was not physically related to Joesph and yet still legally his heir.Jews(though not all) reject Jesus b/c they do not like the gospel, not because he did not fullfill prophecy.Israel has been in a state of apostasy for a long time
"two geneaologies are given to show Jesus fullfilling this prochecy twice fold."
LOL, Have you read them, what was Josephs fathers name, Heli of Jacob?! They are contradicting one another and each one of them contains a flaw that makes it impossible for Jesus to inherrit.
"Jesus was not physically related to Joesph and yet still legally his heir."
Then he can't be a decendant of David and can't inherit the kingdom (according to Jewish law), thus he can't be the Messiah.
@Draugh39 for the most ancient explanation of that, see Julius Africanus (~200 A.D. - ~245 A.D.) in his account ("The Epistle to Aristides. Legal heirs had just as much right to inheritance as natural born sons.Thus Jesus had the right to Joesph's inheritance, which traced all the way back to to the throne of David.
@Draugh39 No, right. He was the rightful heir of Joesph legally, and the annoited one of God, his true Son, in order to inherit that true kingdom which comes from the Father. And I told you that Christians have been coming up with explanations to the claims of skeptics for a long time, someone does not need to be a scholar in order to make a defense.
"No, right. He was the rightful heir of Joesph legally"
He could never inherit the tribal affiliation, this came through the line of the father only (Numbers 34:14, Numbers 1:18-44, Leviticus 24:10). He could still inherit property but he could never have been seen as a descendant of David as Joseph was not his biological father. You should go and talk to a Rabbi about this.
And please don't use Isaiah 7:14 as a counter, Jesus was never called Immanuel.
"No, right. He was the rightful heir of Joesph legally"
He could never inherit the tribal affiliation, this came through the line of the father only (Numbers 34:14, Numbers 1:18-44, Leviticus 24:10). He could still inherit property but he could never have been seen as a descendant of David as Joseph was not his biological father. You should go and talk to a Rabbi about this.
And please don't use Isaiah 7:14 as a counter, Jesus was never called Immanuel.
@Draugh39 The Kingdom did belong to Jesus' true Father(that is, the Father in heaven), he was a rightful heir in that sense and also in the physical sense through Joesph, being in the same family linegae of David.And yes, Jesus was called Immanuel: "Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us)." Matthew 1:23
@Draugh39 The Kingdom did belong to Jesus' true Father(that is, the Father in heaven), he was a rightful heir in that sense and also in the physical sense through Joesph, being in the same family linegae of David.And yes, Jesus was called Immanuel: "Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us)." Matthew 1:23
And Jesus was never called Immanuel (and the Prophecy Isaiah 7:14 states that his *mother* will call him this) Furthermore Mattew list Jeconiah as one of the fathers of Joseph. According to Jeremiah 22:30
"This is what the LORD says: "Record this man as if childless, a man who will not prosper in his lifetime, for none of his offspring will prosper, none will sit on the throne of David or rule any more in Judah."
@Draugh39 Who claimed that Mary didn't call or proclaim that her son was 'God with us'. the angel said his name shall be called Immanuel, and Mary is always seen in scripture to believe all that the Lord's angels tell her.I already explained the case of Jeconiah which only shows the virgin birth was crucial, Jesus was not physically related to Joesph, so the curse by passed him, on the other hand, he was still his rightful and legal heir.God is so wise :)
"She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
But please name the one Bible passage where Mary refer to Jesus as Immanuel. The Jewish prophecies make the following claims about the prmised Messiah (see next post)
@Draugh39 1.) he was Jerwish and was a decendant of David. 2.) The OT does not say he will be an average person, in fact, David even calls him "Lord", but nevertheless, Jesus was still fully human, and also fully God,the God-man.(see Isaiah 9 as well for deity of Messiah). 3,4,5,6...Jesus is going to fulfill these all at his second coming which obviously has not occured yet.Then he will establish himself as rightful King of Israel on the throne and defeat all his enemies.
(1) You just stated that Josef was not his father. Thus he can't possible be an descendent of david according to Jewish Law,
(2)see Maimonides - Laws of Kings 11:3
(3-6) First, Jesus stated clearly that he would return during his deciples lifetime Matthew 16:20-28. Secondly the Prophesies requires that the Messiah does these acts. Since Jesus didn't perform them he can't be seen as a Messiah until this has happened.
@Draugh39 1.) again, he was a legal heir and most conversatives scholars agree Mary also traced back to David, thereby making Jesus both a legal and physical heir of david. 2.) what exactly was your point on this? 3.) "this" is best interpreted in light of the context ie, in this generation when all those signs will be happening.Jesus has already fulfileld more than enough prophecies for us to believe in him, there will be no second chances after death.let him who has hears to hear, hear
@Draugh39 contemporary Jewish thought is really irrelevent since present day Judiasm is apostate, the only authoirty here is the scriptures.About Mary, like I said, many if not most, conversative bible scholars believe the genology of Luke is given from mary's lineage.You can look up an explanation of how that works out if you want.
"many if not most, conversative bible scholars believe the genology of Luke is given from mary's lineage"
That is again bollocks. Here is a link to an article going through this. (I don't know if you have access to the peer reviewed theological journal. Do note the quick dismissal of the "Mary lineage".
h t t p://w w w(dot)theology(dot)edu/ap10(dot)h t m
You claim that most bible scholars believe the Mary lineag, give the reference to where this is stated.
@Draugh39 they(though not all) did not reject him for that reason. They failed and still do to this day to discern the essence of the Old Testament and the truth about who the Messiah would be.Their expectations were way off and thus they rejected Jesus for he did not fit the mold of their self-righteous and proud religious attitudes.The New Testament interprets the Old, not Jewish apostates.
Jesus is the fullilment of all yes, but some are still to tkae place in future time.
"The New Testament interprets the Old, not Jewish apostates."
You REALLY need an education in this. You don't even know about the origin of the Bible and how it was put together. please take the time and read up on this before you make any more horrible mistakes like that.
So are you admitting that not all Old testament prophecy in regards to the Messiah was fulfilled by Jesus? This is a simple "yes or no" answer.
@Draugh39 yes i do know for God himself inspired it and was careful to perserve it.I'm not saying all Jewish people are/were apostate, but even in Jesus' day, many of the Jews failed to understand the meaning of the OT, instead added their legalistic interpretations to the text and replaced the word of God with the traditions of man.
I already answered, I said he does fulfill them all, for it is going to happen and already is a matter of fact that he will come back and do what the Bible says
You claim to know how the Bible was put together. Ok let's test that. What was the name of the first person that tried to make a Bible of the various books and letters that were circulating in early Christianity? What was so special about that Bible compared to the one we have now? When was the Bible finally finished?
So you claim to know this, so these questions shall be easy.
@Draugh39 I didn't claim to have all historical knowledge, I said i know that God has behind it's inspiritation.Obviously the Bible was not written at one time, but over a serious of countless of hundreds of years, then finally finsished with the last writer being John somewhere around 90-100 AD. The early church fathers quoted much of the NT in their writings even before the canon was established,so we know they knew it was divinly inspired of the apostles.
I said the Bible. There were many different books gospells and letters circulating then but no Bible. The Bible was formed later where many texts were rejected during the editing process. You are making claims abut the Bible without knowing its history.
Secondly, the gospell according to John was not written by John. Furthermore we know that bits of it has been added centuries later. John 7:53-8:11 for instance is not even in the earliest manuscripts we have. It is a forgery.
@Draugh39 1.) yes there were by the gnostics which were known cults, like i said, the early church fathers quoted much of the NT in their writings showinng they already held the view that it was inspired.Sure, there was heretics and eventually there was need for offical discernment and establishment of a canon. 2) since when does one little piece being added on later assume the whole thing is a forgery?what we can do is look at the oldest manuscripts we have and see what the original was saying
1) It was much more diverse than that. The formation of the Bible (and there are various versions of it) clearly shows that there can't be one God directing it as that would lead to just one Bible not various versions of it. The selections were done for political reasons.
2) The addition of text into the Bible at later stages also shows that the book was man-made from the start and not preserved.
Thus it wasn't "preserved by God" or "inspired by God" like you claim
@Draugh39 1) again isolated one or two little passages that were most likely not part of the original does not prove mass corruption.Christians do not claim every single copy the scribes ever wrote down was inspired, but that the original was inspired and God preserved its message.The Bible we read today is essentially the one they read back then.
The Iliad we read today is virtually the same as the oldest copies we have of that book as is the Epic of Gilgamesh (both written well before the Bible). This does not speak towards divinity or divinely inspired work.
The Bible is just a book like so many other ancient scrips and has been through many revisions over the years, as is clear from textual studies of it .
There are over 30'000 different Christian denominations in the world today, obviously the message has changed
@Draugh39 we dont claim preservation necessary proves inspiration, we say inspiration lead to preservation.Actually, it's not clear at all.Take for example the Dead Sea Scrolls, dated hundreds of years before Jesus, and yet virtually the same as we read today.Sketpics always claim these ridiculous claims, yet do not provide actual manuscripts to prove mass corruption.And man's personal preference, interpretation, or even deviation from the text still does not change it's meaning.
@Draugh39 we dont claim preservation necessary proves inspiration, we say inspiration lead to preservation.Actually, it's not clear at all.Take for example the Dead Sea Scrolls, dated hundreds of years before Jesus, and yet virtually the same as we read today.Sketpics always claim these ridiculous claims, yet do not provide actual manuscripts to prove mass corruption.And man's personal preference, interpretation, or even deviation from the text still does not change it's meaning.
"While some of the Qumran biblical manuscripts are nearly identical to the Masoretic, or traditional, Hebrew text of the Old Testament, some manuscripts of the books of Exodus and Samuel found in Cave Four exhibit dramatic differences in both language and content. In their astonishing range of textual variants, the Qumran biblical discoveries have prompted scholars to reconsider the once-accepted theories of the development of the modern biblical text ..."
@Draugh39 (cont...) for example, I could take a passage of Jesus like let's say, the parable of the ten virgins(still fresh in my mind for i just read it this night lol) and make up my own explanation of what the texts means that has absouletly nothing to do with what Jesus was talking about.my gross mistakes still does not dilinate his message at all, it does show my foolishness, but the message of Jesus still stands strong in it's original context and meaning.
If you have 30k Christian denominations that show that the meaning of the text can be interpreted many ways, from this follows that the message is not clear. If the message was clear there would be only ONE interpretation.
We humans have no problems writing things which are unambiguous; we do that in mathematics and science. So we humans are better at preserving ideas and messages to the following generations than thi
"she killed her self haha thats stupid" when he said that i nearly fell backwards laughing haha.
atillawith 2 days ago
Liking this man a lot!
newecreator 2 weeks ago
Interesting video. The missionary was trying to convince the tribe to convert, but he came to realize that they were just fine (as opposed to "lost") without his Jesus. He even learned some lessons about life from them. And the missionary finally realized that not only did the tribe not need Jesus, but he didn't need him either. (Besides, Jesus is dead.)
txfreethinker 2 weeks ago
I wish this had millions of views. This is one of the first deconversion stories I heard when I deconverted as well. It was extremely powerful at the time, and it continues to be extremely powerful now. The crux of my loss of faith came when I really started to look at our world in the big picture and saw no universality of a supposed need for salvation. This story is the epitome of that. Thank you for sharing!
thekatiejones9 2 weeks ago
Amazing. Thank you for the story.
Avensadora 2 weeks ago
No creation story, that's great! (Luan Bunyak)
NukerB52 2 weeks ago
Haha, That's so fucking awesome! Beautiful even! =)
ubersteigen 2 weeks ago
some cultures are dangerous and destructive
sometimes its best if they are forgotten and dropped dead
Kalkas53 2 weeks ago
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Let’s put an end to all religion.
Cut and paste URL into browser address bar:
endallreligions.blogspot.com
paularenas26 3 weeks ago
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You could repent. Moreover, you could ask God for eternal forgiveness through applying the death and resurrection of Jesus to your life of sin within the quietness of your bedroom tonight. As an unrepentant sinner myself, I made this decision around 15 years ago. This is the most important decision that you could ever make. - Romans 10:9-10
paularenas26 3 weeks ago
Highly entertaining and interesting video.Thank you for posting it and happy new year.
jonnyy40 3 weeks ago
i wonder what would happen if these guys were taught about physics biology and various other scientific principles.
alvisc2002 1 month ago
I have used a part of your video, which I also translated and subtitled in Greek. Video respond here is just a trailer, without your staff. If you follow link in my Y/T video's description, uc the whole. There others 2, not only Hitch that same similar with Pirahas.Watch it, you find many surprises
FATFREDDY666GR 1 month ago
There's alot of wackier deconversion stories like one laughing at Pandora's Box but then seeing the parallels in the bible.
ganados0 1 month ago
@ganados0
Can you give the link for the article/video/book for the Pandora's box deconversion story? I'm interested :)
qqquigley 1 month ago
@qqquigley dorry for the delay it's taking me ages to find it, I'm sifting through blogs and forums like Debunking christianity and Richard Dawkins net.
ganados0 3 weeks ago
He reveals the irony of Christian values of joy and love when it is rooted in fear. There's fear of hell and of divine wrath but more than any of that is a fear of having family and loved ones and the church going cold on you as soon as you don't live up to the status quo imposed on you. It is so intellectually dishonest and empty and hypocritical that it shattered my own faith which was stronger than anyone in my immediate family and church group, some would say.
HomicidalHeidi 1 month ago
this guy is a fail...If your gonna be a christian missionary you should be charismatic (not shouting)
JonathanHidahl 1 month ago
He expected the Pirahãs to believe in his god because his mother killed himself? What an idiot.
ManelinhoAraujinho 1 month ago
The Pirahã tribe is awesome, their story, language are fascinating. Search about the tribe, there are few information about them, but it's awesome!
Pedrofrombrazil 1 month ago
He never read the book "Eternity in Their Hearts", written by a missionary who found that every tribe he visited had a concept of a Creator. He learned that that's where most missionaries should start - with the Creator. That wouldn't have worked with this group, but it would've been better than selling them Jesus. The other mistake this guy made, which they pointed out, was not telling them that it's not necessary to live like an American to worship God. Well, I hope this guy is at peace.
xander7ful 1 month ago
@xander7ful I doubt there would be too many Evangelicals that would be thrilled with the fact that they like to drink a lot and the men like more than one woman! The modern Evangelical movement is an American phenomena, rooted in the Great Awakening. Missionaries are not only bringing their religious message, but also the cultural trappings that go along with it, which, as I stated, are generally American or Western.
LMichaelL65 2 weeks ago
@xander7ful He did talk to them about the concept of a Creator. He spoke about it in the video. He said that they do not believe the world was created, so they have no need to conceptualize a Creator. I'm sure he did tell them they don't have to be Americans to worship God. Just because he didn't go into detail about that in the video, you assume he didn't make that obvious point? Sounds like you're digging for reasons to discredit his efforts. He was trying to do "God's" work.
thekatiejones9 2 weeks ago
@thekatiejones9 You either didn't read what I said or didn't want to. I said, "The other mistake this guy made, WHICH THEY POINTED OUT, was not telling them that it's not necessary to live like an American to worship God." I am not trying to discredit his work. I was a born-again Christian for 25 years & part of a conservative Charismatic church for 10. I left all of it for Paganism, the New Age & Occult for 6 years, came back, & now am back to Pagan/Occult. I've been on both sides.
xander7ful 2 weeks ago
@xander7ful I've been on both sides as well, and I don't see how that's relevant. I hear now how he equates rejection of Jesus as rejections of himself, which does imply that he was conceding to their point that worshiping God is worshiping like him, which means worshiping as an American. Sorry I misunderstood your point. I wouldn't necessary call that a mistake, though, considering he was expressing his own understanding.
thekatiejones9 2 weeks ago
@thekatiejones9 I thought it was relevant that I've been on both sides simply to point out that I'm not biased for or against this missionary. If he equates worshiping God with worshiping like an American, then he wasn't taught properly that it's alright to develop an indigenous worship style. The Woadani tribe in Ecuador, that was reached by the 5 missionaries killed in 1956, has developed its own set of worship songs.
xander7ful 2 weeks ago
@xander7ful "I left all of it for Paganism, the New Age & Occult for 6 years, came back, & now am back to Pagan/Occult. I've been on both sides."
You're trying, but seem to be going the wrong way. Instead of rejecting the idea one God you're embracing the idea of many?
Paganism is no more logical than monotheism.
burkerow 1 week ago
@burkerow No, I'm not embracing polytheism. Maybe I should have just said Occult. Thanks.
xander7ful 1 week ago
@xander7ful Paganism, historically is polytheism. I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, but what exactly do you mean by the "occult"?
If it has anything to do with the supernatural then my point still stands; it's not anymore logical than any belief in God or gods.
burkerow 1 week ago
There may be lots of different theologies, and Christians who claim to be rational and Christians who claim to revere science. But who cares? The fundamental core belief of Christians is some guy (who is only evidenced by one moldy book put together from word of mouth folk tales and hearsay, without any historical facts to back up his existence) is the prime mover in their lives and is going to affect them after their death. Christianity is absurd at its core, no matter the mitigating factors.
LaerenMisha 1 month ago 3
@LaerenMisha You have no idea what you are saying. From a logical stand point, if there is a creation, there is a creater. From a scientific point, over 300 prophesies were fulfilled, and most importantly, my life- from an addict to a born again christian turned around in one day. I have also been gifted by the Holy God with a spiritual Gift. So, who should I believe 3 witnesses and a Jesus who changed my life, or that the earth is flat?
Outd00rFishing 1 month ago
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@Outd00rFishing, “You have no idea what you are saying. From a logical stand point, if there is a creation, there is a creater [sic].”
Not necessarily. The Universe could be self-existing. You believe God is self-existing and eternal. Atheism just cuts out the middleman, as it were.
“From a scientific point, over 300 prophesies were fulfilled,”
Uh, no. Some have the appearance of fulfillment by being vague. Others were twisted or misinterpreted.
COMALiteJ 1 month ago
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@Outd00rFishing "From a logical stand point, if there is a creation, there is a creater"
Since you raised the point that we used to think the earth is flat, I will add we also used to think the earth was at the center of the universe. It's not and it's not. So what makes you so certain your "logic" is sound, especially when we simply don't understand how the universe came to be?
burkerow 1 week ago
@Outd00rFishing "From a scientific point, over 300 prophesies were fulfilled"
I'm sorry, but you can't just make an assertion like that without giving supporting evidence. Please support your comment if you want anyone here to think that you are a logical or critical thinker.
Give just a couple of examples please.
burkerow 1 week ago
@Outd00rFishing "my life- from an addict to a born again christian"
I am happy for you, but it is easier for me to believe that a person came to a place in their life when he had enough motivation to turn his life around. That seems more likely than some supernatural event.
I too have been in the depths of despair, but it was Buddhism that gave me more comfort than Christianity for me.
What I realized is that I'm responsible for my mental health, that's when real personal growth takes place.
burkerow 1 week ago
@burkerow Explain to a pedophile that it is wrong to be a pedophile. The cause is SIN! Only Jesus can wash away that sin and destroy the connection between a human and Satan with his blood. Buddha can not do that because he isn't real. An image created so that man can worship anything he likes. It is no wonder why there are so many Gods and false teachers out there. I say unto you to repent and turn away from your life. Jesus is the life! You only get one chance in this life.
Outd00rFishing 1 week ago
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@Outd00rFishing "Explain that it is wrong to be a pedophile. The cause is SIN!"
Of course it's wrong to be a pedophile, but not for the reasons you think it is, and that's the sad part of this.
From a purely naturalistic viewpoint it probably is not wrong. Animals will attempt to mate after puberty. For humans females that's about 7 to 13 years.
Modern cultures have decided to protect children from sex until 18 which is mostly arbitrary. Consequently it causes harm to violate these norms.
burkerow 1 week ago
@Outd00rFishing Pedophilia is not a sin anymore than murder is a sin. These things you call sin cause harm to others and to a civilized society and ultimately to oneself; that's what makes them wrong.
burkerow 1 week ago
@Outd00rFishing "Buddha can not do that because he isn't real."
First; I'm not Buddhist. I did study Buddhist philosophy during a time when I was in my own depths of despair and found it to be more helpful than Christianity.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of men of old, seek what they sought. Each of us must find our own way and in our own time."
It is usually a devastating loss that brings most of us to our knees, and if we're strong we use loss to grow into mentally mature adults.
burkerow 1 week ago
@Outd00rFishing "You only get one chance in this life."
I was a Christian for the first 30 years of my life. The next 20, I was agnostic. Once I made the commitment to atheism, I've never been happier.
Now I live my life honestly and as if it's the only one I have, because it it.
You are wrong, there is no this life and that life. There's only this life.....live it!
burkerow 1 week ago
@burkerow You were never a Christian. I'm not saying this for the sake of hatred because I guarantee that if you had met the creator you would never say anything like what you just wrote. There are hundreds of people that professed they were Christian and know not God. I firmly believe that if you even spent 80yrs of your life being an atheist and God truly did the good work in you, you would be transformed in an instant! I say this to you because I did the same thing in my life...
Outd00rFishing 1 week ago
@burkerow PART 2: ... because in my life, I grew up knowing the language. I was preached the love, the gospel, the truth, etc, but I never met the creator. BUT when God touched me with his spirit, an addicted worthless failure, it was the equivalent of putting me in a body scanner and cleansing the junk out of me in spiritual form. My desires were killed with one prayer, in one second, I could profess the name of Christ with more boldness than ever before! cont...
Outd00rFishing 1 week ago
@burkerow Part 3: ...the fact is this. Being a Christian is when your life shows that fruit. When man is born, we know nothing but sin. We love it too. The greed, the money, pride, adultery at heart (lust for women), etc. Pedophiles and murderers were no different than who I was. I practiced sin not because I wanted to, but because I loved it. I couldn't even imagine living without it because it was so great in my life! It is only the supernatural event that God can do to change you...
Outd00rFishing 1 week ago
@burkerow PART 4: to close... Today, from what I went through, and from what God showed me through prayer, I can repeatedly tell you with boldness that you were never a Christian. The only way to God is through Jesus the son. I know that we as men do not even want to grasp the idea of God in our lives... but that is overcome through Jesus, any sin, as simple as it sounds, it is all sin! If you even had one spec of faith, based on what you've been told, you would be on your knees alrdy
Outd00rFishing 1 week ago
@Outd00rFishing Look up "No true Scotsman."
Morkindie 6 days ago
@Outd00rFishing "So, who should I believe 3 witnesses and a Jesus who changed my life, or that the earth is flat?"
Your comment above is what would be known in critical thinking as a "false dichotomy" which is a logical fallacy. I think you threw it in here as a distraction from logical thinking, similar to a red herring.
You had a personal growth experience which you attribute to Jesus.
burkerow 1 week ago
@LaerenMisha "some guy (who is only evidenced by one moldy book put together from word of mouth folk tales and hearsay, without any historical facts to back up his existence"
Jesus (as a man) almost certainly existed, scholars almost universally agree on that. His miracles and his status of deity are the things that one can argue are myth.
But you are correct in saying that Christianity is absurd.
burkerow 1 week ago
"The piraha's have shown me that theres dignity and deep satisfaction in facing life and death with out the comfort of heaven or the fear of hell and in sailing toward the great abyss with a smile."
Fucking beautiful
I b
fruitytuttiluigi 1 month ago
Missionaries want to help the poor and needy but with strings attached.
don28104 1 month ago 2
I love God, he is in my head, he talks to me every day.
pigeonpsycho 1 month ago
@pigeonpsycho Wow you hear voices? You're crazy.
bewertow69 1 month ago
@pigeonpsycho The crazy homeless people who live in my neighborhood also hear voices in their heads every day. You're not unique. Crazy maybe, but not unique.
burkerow 1 week ago
Those tribal people are not the only ones who do not want to hear any more about Jesus.
jmcg02908 1 month ago 60
This is an amazing story. These simple tribal people have succeeded in advancing philosophically and intellectually where the entire western world has battled and failed for centuries.
Snipe4261 1 month ago 6
Christians use fear to scare people into conversion. The fear of Hell. Why shove your beliefs down others throats promising happiness if those who you're trying to convert are already happy? fuck missionaries and their destroying of culture. Christians worship the word of King James. It's not even the matter of believing in what can't be seen, it's using your brain and common sense with the aid of science. get real. grow up and face life with responsibility.
jlause421 1 month ago 37
@jlause421 nicely said!
AnArchaicSoul 1 month ago
@jlause421 There are lots of different theology and Christians. Nowadays the doctrine of hell is not interpreted as everlasting suffering but a metaphor for the state of everlasting detachment from God or eternal disappearance. King James version is not an updated Bible. All you said, 'using your brain and common sense with the aid of science. get real. grow up and face life with responsibility', is totally necessary and possible for modern, rational, liberal and sincere Christians.
cflamss 1 month ago
@jlause421 you're all wrong
JonathanHidahl 1 month ago
@jlause421 Because Hell is not a made up feat techique it is a real place of Eternal Torment.
SpanishDomodeath 3 weeks ago
@SpanishDomodeath LOL
scytheka 2 weeks ago
Loved it. Thanks :)
TheLonelyImmortal 1 month ago
I bought this book when I returned from Venezuela last year. It is a fascinating read.
bohemianblackgirl 1 month ago
becasue of christianity no where in world people are loosing their culture unless it is barbarian, can we think the Piraha people are not in darkness living very good life? Why as a christian missionary he went to save Piraha people, why not as an individual? leave about heven and hell, the outcome of his christian efforts brought those people into light, after he left christianity how much he was able to serve those people?
Christianity is all about Serving people, just a motivation to help
prabhubpk 2 months ago
you are a very very lucky man, im def buying this book!
busybee340 2 months ago
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VISIT:
Joy*Of*Satan*dot*org
BobSalmonSmacky 2 months ago
In his biography he claims he's been an atheist long before he went to this place for missionary work, the only reason he was a missionary is because he was born into a family of them. So the title is wrong.
SupremeAmerican 2 months ago
@SupremeAmerican
The point is not to push over Christians by pointing out "HEY LOOK HOW EASY IT IS TO CONVINCE 'THEM' OTHER WISE" . It's the culture of these people that live with a warming love that goes outside of so called omniscient love following. As this short video clearly represents from his novel that these people live in light without Jesus. Regardless of conversion of some 'missionary' the point still stands. There is love and acceptance of death by these people.
IHaveYourSealab 2 months ago in playlist IHaveYourSealab's favorites
@SupremeAmerican
I think it's important to note your point is moot. Having no relativity to the material here only pointing out the title can be misunderstood. After all, if you're on a 'mission' for spreading Christian values and scripture doesn't that make the 'mission' a 'Christian mission' and the missionary-one for Christ? Relevance of genuine belief and the sake of conversion from the strength of that belief is NOT THE POINT OF THIS VIDEO.
IHaveYourSealab 2 months ago in playlist IHaveYourSealab's favorites
@SupremeAmerican
THE POINT IS-to reiterate this further-PEOPLE LIVE WITHOUT JESUS OR GOD OR FEAR OF DEATH AND STILL LOVE EACH OTHER AND DO NOT KILL ONE ANOTHER. pretty important message don't you think? Gee whiz.
IHaveYourSealab 2 months ago in playlist IHaveYourSealab's favorites
@IHaveYourSealab Well i dont find it important because the fact that some people do believe in jesus does not offend me. I am very secure with myself in that regard and feel no need to lash out. Now if you want my thoughts on the topic, i think it could be answered by Jesus himself. There's a part in new testament where he and his desciples wandered upon a group of non-believers, and they criticize them. Jesus said "Hush, they keep my commandments closer than you do, learn from them". U mad?
SupremeAmerican 2 months ago
@SupremeAmerican
U mad bro? is again not relative to say here. You shared information, thank you that is helpful. Not like your first comment about the title. To focus on the title doesn't merit anything past that, only insinuations will do that. However, I could not let your original comment stay on it's own as it can cloud future viewers perspective on the video. Again, thank you for your reply to my response as it does further the source information here. U r disappoint?
IHaveYourSealab 2 months ago
@IHaveYourSealab i are hunger for bacon
SupremeAmerican 2 months ago
He went native!
I have no problem believing his story. I don't really like to attack some of the doctrines of so-called "biblical Christianity" -- I sort of feel gentle about it. But Biblical Christianity has some difficult problems in its Soteriology which this person pointed out. He is not the first person to explore those problems deeply and come away with his faith shaken or destroyed. That's the problem with too much attachment to false ideas in the name of God.
ImLDSRU2 2 months ago
Wow. What a profoundly sad story. Anyone who says they "lost their faith" or were "deconverted", etc. Never believed in anything to begin with.
nightsongs1970 2 months ago
@nightsongs1970 Thats not true at all, it could just be possible that there is more to the world than he could have realized and saw that there was no need for faith. Such a thing happened to me and it's not sad at all, looking at things realistically is far more satisfying actually.
jwhyte67 2 months ago
“Be sure that you first preach by the way you live. If you do not, people will notice that...” (St. Charles Borromeo, Cardinal-Archbishop and Confessor, Patron Saint of Catechists, Catechumens and Seminarians)
ernesto7012 2 months ago
soooo he went from being a christian to being atheist. . .O.o
so. . .he thinks one must be religious to believe in God I take it. How. . .tardish =P
Xaymaicana 2 months ago
I long for a society without religious mumbo jumbo,free to explore the natural world and advance all who live apon it.
BarryE1958 3 months ago 4
As a christian, I always found strange that christians boast that we are all sinners and that's okay - because we are saved if we just say 'I love you jesus', and off course, that poor little middle-eastern was killed by his own people and friends to isent us for all past and future sins.
looks like a giant colossus scape goat.
louisecf 3 months ago
The ultimate display of a follower. He stopped believing in something primarily because everyone around him didn't believe in it. "Comfort in heaven, and fear of hell" is not the true basis of faith. When one thinks that it is, they end up like this gentleman
rgatlin04 3 months ago
@rgatlin04 Yeah, not like believing in it in the first place right?
jwhyte67 2 months ago
@jwhyte67 hey, what ya mean?
rgatlin04 2 months ago
@rgatlin04 You said he was a follower due him becoming an atheist after being immersed in the Pirahã culture for so long. The same can be said for any adherent to any religion due to being immersed in their particular "culture" i.e. people in America being mostly christian, mostly hindu in India etc.
jwhyte67 2 months ago
@jwhyte67 You're statement is true. However, it has nothing to do with the one i made. Read it again, i didn't say he was a follower for switching faiths. I said he was because of the reason he did. Based on this video, he began to have doubt in what he believed because the tribe laughed at him and didn't want to hear it. Not because he heard any new revelation or argument. Regardless of what faith he holds and forsakes, these actions are that of a follower
rgatlin04 2 months ago
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@rgatlin04 Apperently you weren't paying attention. He didn't "switch faiths".
Maybe you should watch it again and actually pay attention?
Zentz29 1 month ago
this only shows that those people are stupid. while it is good that they are living in the present, they will be oblivious to the concept of christ or immortal fetus and enlightenment.
gingowitch 3 months ago
@gingowitch No they are not stupid, why are they stupid? because they don't believe in god. THey don't need god in their lives, they live happy lives they don't need myth and superstition and false promises of an afterlife to live their life. The time is now and the place is here, they don't believe in god because there is no evidence for god, this is a fact.
bombarderoazul 3 months ago
@bombarderoazul THEY NEED PROPER TEACHING. BECOMING AMERICAN IS TO BECOME WORSE THAN THEY ARE. AMERICAN PROSTITUTES ARE CIRCUMCISING IDIOTS.
gingowitch 3 months ago
@gingowitch proper teaching? for what? they live in the rainforest, why do they need to become doctors, lawyers, etc? they get the teaching they need from their elders on how to survive and live in the forest.
bombarderoazul 3 months ago
@gingowitch Real enlightenment is living in the present and being a utilitarian. Star gazing is enlightenment when you can just gaze into the abyss and be perfectly happy.
howitzer24 3 months ago
@howitzer24 no, enlightenment is very specific. it can be seen as a dim white light in your head, the moon in your head as though in a area, or you are in a dark place at night and all of a sudden everything turns bright as though the sun is shining, and if you don't have a care in the world, the true nature of your mind reveals itself to you.
gingowitch 3 months ago
@gingowitch I agree and I think these people have that more than a Christian living in a Western style society.
howitzer24 3 months ago
@howitzer24 modern society is garbage. nevertheless it is the same teachings that make it.
gingowitch 3 months ago
This is old news im sure most of the natives around the world thought the same way the Pirahã did except they were killed and the survivors brainwashed.
MultiTaketwo 3 months ago
The bible is referring to lost tribe of Israel ( caucasians ) . Not these beasts....
JEWSCONTROLMEDIA911 3 months ago
@JEWSCONTROLMEDIA911 and?
deewoken1 3 months ago
@deewoken1 That is why they don't question the same things caucasians do. Simple as that . He was so brainwashed by multiculturalism and diversity that he was unable to see the truth
JEWSCONTROLMEDIA911 3 months ago
@JEWSCONTROLMEDIA911 oh one of those types, have a good day.
deewoken1 3 months ago
haha.. that guy had a existential crisis.. i wish this would happen to all those colonialist jesus asshole who try to impose their nonsensical believe upon indigenous people of the world.
rey9883 4 months ago 2
I take Pascal's Wager. Call me logical.
FrosDOwnz 4 months ago
@FrosDOwnz who's more foolish? the fool or the fool who follows him?
rey9883 4 months ago
@rey9883 I don't get the point. All I'm saying is this is the best bet if you're going to gamble, and otherwise it's all nothingness. If you're right, the outcome is the same regardless what a person does or believes in. So why bother debating?
FrosDOwnz 4 months ago
@FrosDOwnz yea because gods don't read minds.
MultiTaketwo 3 months ago
This is an amazing story.
fonoflux1 4 months ago
Thanks for sharing this. Interesing.
Yeah there is nothing pure and real about Christianity. It's all based opun a more developed and civilzed ancient egyptian paganism.
Only diffrence is that Christianity/judianism/islam introduced weird and irational moral thrash rules. Ridiculous rules.
But surely dangerous for naive followers and brainwashed and dependant slaves.
turbofritz2 4 months ago
Interesting! There should be more people like this tribe. The important thing is to be happy not to reach for some sort of pre explained happieness. This tribe should send "their missionaries" to the world!
Sohave 4 months ago
@Sohave It's just kinda odd hearing about indigenous that don't hold unto some sort of superstition.....
It kinda makes me want to join them :P
thefakeyeti 4 months ago
hahahahaha, "we don't want to hear more about jesus" f..ing evangelist go to hell and leave us alone, lol.
masterixche 4 months ago
THis is great!!!!
HajtomY 4 months ago
This is exactly what I've been saying... religion does nothing for a person who doesn't feel lost and doomed - a common mindset in the dark ages that I suppose has come culturally today with western and middle-eastern peoples. The people who quote doctrine to people who don't believe in a divine being are doing nothing for their cause (@GodLovesUs100). Give it a couple of centuries - monotheistic depressive and restrictive religions are dissapearing because they no longer serve humanity.
diesel7270 4 months ago
Loved the video. Bought his book, "Don't Sleep, There are Snakes" I'm about 2/3 of the way through, enjoying it quite a bit. Will update and give more feedback when I am done the book.
1949rickray 5 months ago
faith is the challenge of denying all logic and reason for the promise of heaven, heaven isn't what you think it is read the bible Christians you'll find out how much bowing and kissing gods ass you'll do.
Tethloach1 5 months ago
He has such a nice voice.
hosweetim89 5 months ago
Such an amazing story. Favorited, liked, subscribed.
ThinkerResearcher 5 months ago
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You will stop being "Grateful to them" the moment that you die.
edadan2009 5 months ago
Never a true Christian
GodLovesUs100 5 months ago
@GodLovesUs100 you are absolutely right ! True christians have a godlike immunity to logic after all !
ThinkerResearcher 5 months ago in playlist Informations for atheists
@ThinkerResearcher Well if you read 1 John 2:19, you will see that if someone leaves the faith, it shows they were never of it.Why?B/c if God has truly saved someone, he will not fail in keeping them saved and always drawing them back to himself.A Christian is someone who has been re-created and given a new nature and have been given the Spirit of God.There are countless times where I myself would have left by now, but the Lord always draws me back by his grace.
GodLovesUs100 5 months ago
@GodLovesUs100 Your a slave to religion like a child who can't let go of an imaginary friend. You are the slave and god is your master. very interesting why would you need a master unless your a slave.
Tethloach1 5 months ago
@Tethloach1 Yes I very well am a Slave of God, that is what a Christian is.Everyone is a slave to something and there are only two options: you're either a slave to sin( so therefore to Satan) or you're a slave of righteousness(therefore a slave of God).
GodLovesUs100 5 months ago
@GodLovesUs100 Truth spoken, Amen to that!
L33thalLee 5 months ago
@L33thalLee God bless you :)
GodLovesUs100 5 months ago
@GodLovesUs100 oh you sad sad monkey. only one who you are a slave is your self. you rather be happy then right? that is fine. but if you step on the thoes of science. you will be defeated. there mostliekly is no god, and if there is, it is definetly not your god. the god if christianity is inferior to majority of gods. but christian god is orginaly just tribal god. while the gods of many other relgions are celestial from the start. your god is spiced and pached. weak and pathetic.
gethsoftware 5 months ago
@gethsoftware Spoken like a true pagan. Your hatred against God only proves what the Bible says about an unregenerate heart turning from the Living God.Unbelief is not an intellectual issue it is a moral issue.If God in the Bible just claimed to be a God who didn't care how we lived and just gave us an awesome place to live when we died, no one would have a problem believing in God.But b/c God is holy and we are not, b/c we are held accountable to him, the wicked heart turns naturally from him
GodLovesUs100 5 months ago
@GodLovesUs100 "the wicked" are usually normal, every day people who either don't worship your savior or are people who are culturally isolated from Christendom, yet according to your dehumanizing religion they are doomed for hell. Your belief system causes more harm than good and you have done enough damage to nonbelievers as far as I'm concerned.
TheGreaterGood80 5 months ago 12
@TheGreaterGood80 actually everyone on the planet in their natural state is wicked.All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and in the sight of a perfectly Just and holy God, are filthy sinners.Jesus is the only one who bore our sins and died in our place, the one who rose again.Sinners need a Savior.Only those who realize their depravity and are broken over their sin, placing their trust in Jesus and turning from their lifestyle of rebellion can find life.
GodLovesUs100 5 months ago
@GodLovesUs100 The Biblical version of Jesus was stolen from the persian pagan beliefs in BC.
fahadshippuden 4 months ago
@fahadshippuden These claims from Zaeigeist have already been shown to be irrational and untrue.Not one person can provide a single Pagan source dated any time before Christ that would prove these claims.The best they've got is actually things that were written AFTER the time of Jesus.So likely they stole from him, not the other way around.The only B.C sources on Jesus Christ are the hundreds of prophecies written about him in the old testament.
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
@GodLovesUs100
Zeitgeist is rubbish but there are many similarities between "Pagan" gods and Jesus that existed prior to the (alledged) birth of Jesus. Prometheus for instance existed in Greek writing since late 8th century BCE. Most of the Old Testament wasn't even written then. The similarities between the Jesus myth and the Mithras myth are many. The only difference really is that the Jesus myths is still believed by many and he is still worshipped today.
Draugh39 4 months ago
@Draugh39 I've read about Promtheus and I don't see what you're talking about.Jesus Christ is a completely unquie character and that is undeniable once you start to learn more about him.The only B.C manuscipts that point to him are the ones of the Old Testament where over 300 prophecies are given about the coming Messiah, and Jesus fulfilled them all.What makes you assume all religion is a subjective experience rather than a divine revelation?
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
@GodLovesUs100
"Messiah ....and Jesus fulfilled them all."
Bollocks. You need to learn some more about the Bible. Jesus didn't fulfil all Messianic prophesies. If he had there wouldn't be any Jews! The Messiah must be a direct descendant of David through the family of Solomon (1 Chronicles 22:9-l0). According to the Genealogy of Luke (3:23–38) Jesus isn't. According to Matthews list he is a descendant of Jeconiah and thus can't inherit (Jeremiah 22:28-30). Both lines invalidates him.
Draugh39 4 months ago
@Draugh39 He is according to matthew, two geneaologies are given to show Jesus fullfilling this prochecy twice fold.When it comes to Jeconiah, you make an important point.His physical decendant would be cursed.How then would God bring forth the Messiah?Answer: Jesus was not physically related to Joesph and yet still legally his heir.Jews(though not all) reject Jesus b/c they do not like the gospel, not because he did not fullfill prophecy.Israel has been in a state of apostasy for a long time
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
@Draugh39 He is according to matthew, two geneaologies are given to show Jesus fullfilling this prochecy twice fold.When it comes to Jeconiah, you make an important point.His physical decendant would be cursed.How then would God bring forth the Messiah?Answer: Jesus was not physically related to Joesph and yet still legally his heir.Jews(though not all) reject Jesus b/c they do not like the gospel, not because he did not fullfill prophecy.Israel has been in a state of apostasy for a long time
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
@GodLovesUs100
"two geneaologies are given to show Jesus fullfilling this prochecy twice fold."
LOL, Have you read them, what was Josephs fathers name, Heli of Jacob?! They are contradicting one another and each one of them contains a flaw that makes it impossible for Jesus to inherrit.
"Jesus was not physically related to Joesph and yet still legally his heir."
Then he can't be a decendant of David and can't inherit the kingdom (according to Jewish law), thus he can't be the Messiah.
Draugh39 4 months ago
@Draugh39 for the most ancient explanation of that, see Julius Africanus (~200 A.D. - ~245 A.D.) in his account ("The Epistle to Aristides. Legal heirs had just as much right to inheritance as natural born sons.Thus Jesus had the right to Joesph's inheritance, which traced all the way back to to the throne of David.
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
@GodLovesUs100
Wrong. Jesus could inherrit a house etc but never a Kingdom as the tribal identification comes from the fathers side only.
Why are you using Africanus who was a Christian, and not a Jewish scholar, when you are arguing Jewish Law?!
Draugh39 4 months ago
@Draugh39 No, right. He was the rightful heir of Joesph legally, and the annoited one of God, his true Son, in order to inherit that true kingdom which comes from the Father. And I told you that Christians have been coming up with explanations to the claims of skeptics for a long time, someone does not need to be a scholar in order to make a defense.
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
@GodLovesUs100
"No, right. He was the rightful heir of Joesph legally"
He could never inherit the tribal affiliation, this came through the line of the father only (Numbers 34:14, Numbers 1:18-44, Leviticus 24:10). He could still inherit property but he could never have been seen as a descendant of David as Joseph was not his biological father. You should go and talk to a Rabbi about this.
And please don't use Isaiah 7:14 as a counter, Jesus was never called Immanuel.
Draugh39 4 months ago
@GodLovesUs100
"No, right. He was the rightful heir of Joesph legally"
He could never inherit the tribal affiliation, this came through the line of the father only (Numbers 34:14, Numbers 1:18-44, Leviticus 24:10). He could still inherit property but he could never have been seen as a descendant of David as Joseph was not his biological father. You should go and talk to a Rabbi about this.
And please don't use Isaiah 7:14 as a counter, Jesus was never called Immanuel.
Draugh39 4 months ago
@Draugh39 The Kingdom did belong to Jesus' true Father(that is, the Father in heaven), he was a rightful heir in that sense and also in the physical sense through Joesph, being in the same family linegae of David.And yes, Jesus was called Immanuel: "Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us)." Matthew 1:23
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
@Draugh39 The Kingdom did belong to Jesus' true Father(that is, the Father in heaven), he was a rightful heir in that sense and also in the physical sense through Joesph, being in the same family linegae of David.And yes, Jesus was called Immanuel: "Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us)." Matthew 1:23
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
@GodLovesUs100
And Jesus was never called Immanuel (and the Prophecy Isaiah 7:14 states that his *mother* will call him this) Furthermore Mattew list Jeconiah as one of the fathers of Joseph. According to Jeremiah 22:30
"This is what the LORD says: "Record this man as if childless, a man who will not prosper in his lifetime, for none of his offspring will prosper, none will sit on the throne of David or rule any more in Judah."
Draugh39 4 months ago
@Draugh39 Who claimed that Mary didn't call or proclaim that her son was 'God with us'. the angel said his name shall be called Immanuel, and Mary is always seen in scripture to believe all that the Lord's angels tell her.I already explained the case of Jeconiah which only shows the virgin birth was crucial, Jesus was not physically related to Joesph, so the curse by passed him, on the other hand, he was still his rightful and legal heir.God is so wise :)
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
@GodLovesUs100
"Who claimed that Mary didn't call or proclaim that her son was 'God with us'"
If you read Mattew 1:21 it actually states:
"She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
But please name the one Bible passage where Mary refer to Jesus as Immanuel. The Jewish prophecies make the following claims about the prmised Messiah (see next post)
Draugh39 4 months ago
@GodLovesUs100
(1) Be an observant Jewish man descended from the house of King David
(2) Be an ordinary human being (as opposed to the Son of God)
(3) Bring peace to the world
(4) Gather all Jews back into Israel
(5) Rebuild the ancient Temple in Jerusalem
(6) Unite humanity in the worship of the Jewish God and Torah observance.
Jesus did not fulfill these which is why he is seen as "a false Messiah" (and the same is true with Islam - the third Abrahamic religion)
Draugh39 4 months ago
@Draugh39 1.) he was Jerwish and was a decendant of David. 2.) The OT does not say he will be an average person, in fact, David even calls him "Lord", but nevertheless, Jesus was still fully human, and also fully God,the God-man.(see Isaiah 9 as well for deity of Messiah). 3,4,5,6...Jesus is going to fulfill these all at his second coming which obviously has not occured yet.Then he will establish himself as rightful King of Israel on the throne and defeat all his enemies.
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
@GodLovesUs100
(1) You just stated that Josef was not his father. Thus he can't possible be an descendent of david according to Jewish Law,
(2)see Maimonides - Laws of Kings 11:3
(3-6) First, Jesus stated clearly that he would return during his deciples lifetime Matthew 16:20-28. Secondly the Prophesies requires that the Messiah does these acts. Since Jesus didn't perform them he can't be seen as a Messiah until this has happened.
Draugh39 4 months ago
@Draugh39 1.) again, he was a legal heir and most conversatives scholars agree Mary also traced back to David, thereby making Jesus both a legal and physical heir of david. 2.) what exactly was your point on this? 3.) "this" is best interpreted in light of the context ie, in this generation when all those signs will be happening.Jesus has already fulfileld more than enough prophecies for us to believe in him, there will be no second chances after death.let him who has hears to hear, hear
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
Comment removed
Draugh39 4 months ago
@Draugh39 contemporary Jewish thought is really irrelevent since present day Judiasm is apostate, the only authoirty here is the scriptures.About Mary, like I said, many if not most, conversative bible scholars believe the genology of Luke is given from mary's lineage.You can look up an explanation of how that works out if you want.
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
@GodLovesUs100
"many if not most, conversative bible scholars believe the genology of Luke is given from mary's lineage"
That is again bollocks. Here is a link to an article going through this. (I don't know if you have access to the peer reviewed theological journal. Do note the quick dismissal of the "Mary lineage".
h t t p://w w w(dot)theology(dot)edu/ap10(dot)h t m
You claim that most bible scholars believe the Mary lineag, give the reference to where this is stated.
Draugh39 4 months ago
@GodLovesUs100
"contemporary Jewish thought is really irrelevent since present day Judiasm is apostate."
The Jews have NEVER accepted Jesus as Messiah and this is one of the reasons. He does not fulfill old testament prophesies.
I ask you again, are you admitting that you made a false claim when you said that Jesus had fulfilled ALL Old Testament prophesies?
Draugh39 4 months ago
@Draugh39 they(though not all) did not reject him for that reason. They failed and still do to this day to discern the essence of the Old Testament and the truth about who the Messiah would be.Their expectations were way off and thus they rejected Jesus for he did not fit the mold of their self-righteous and proud religious attitudes.The New Testament interprets the Old, not Jewish apostates.
Jesus is the fullilment of all yes, but some are still to tkae place in future time.
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
@GodLovesUs100
"The New Testament interprets the Old, not Jewish apostates."
You REALLY need an education in this. You don't even know about the origin of the Bible and how it was put together. please take the time and read up on this before you make any more horrible mistakes like that.
So are you admitting that not all Old testament prophecy in regards to the Messiah was fulfilled by Jesus? This is a simple "yes or no" answer.
Draugh39 4 months ago
@Draugh39 yes i do know for God himself inspired it and was careful to perserve it.I'm not saying all Jewish people are/were apostate, but even in Jesus' day, many of the Jews failed to understand the meaning of the OT, instead added their legalistic interpretations to the text and replaced the word of God with the traditions of man.
I already answered, I said he does fulfill them all, for it is going to happen and already is a matter of fact that he will come back and do what the Bible says
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
@GodLovesUs100
You claim to know how the Bible was put together. Ok let's test that. What was the name of the first person that tried to make a Bible of the various books and letters that were circulating in early Christianity? What was so special about that Bible compared to the one we have now? When was the Bible finally finished?
So you claim to know this, so these questions shall be easy.
Draugh39 4 months ago
@Draugh39 I didn't claim to have all historical knowledge, I said i know that God has behind it's inspiritation.Obviously the Bible was not written at one time, but over a serious of countless of hundreds of years, then finally finsished with the last writer being John somewhere around 90-100 AD. The early church fathers quoted much of the NT in their writings even before the canon was established,so we know they knew it was divinly inspired of the apostles.
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
@GodLovesUs100
I said the Bible. There were many different books gospells and letters circulating then but no Bible. The Bible was formed later where many texts were rejected during the editing process. You are making claims abut the Bible without knowing its history.
Secondly, the gospell according to John was not written by John. Furthermore we know that bits of it has been added centuries later. John 7:53-8:11 for instance is not even in the earliest manuscripts we have. It is a forgery.
Draugh39 4 months ago
@Draugh39 1.) yes there were by the gnostics which were known cults, like i said, the early church fathers quoted much of the NT in their writings showinng they already held the view that it was inspired.Sure, there was heretics and eventually there was need for offical discernment and establishment of a canon. 2) since when does one little piece being added on later assume the whole thing is a forgery?what we can do is look at the oldest manuscripts we have and see what the original was saying
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
Comment removed
Draugh39 4 months ago
@GodLovesUs100
1) It was much more diverse than that. The formation of the Bible (and there are various versions of it) clearly shows that there can't be one God directing it as that would lead to just one Bible not various versions of it. The selections were done for political reasons.
2) The addition of text into the Bible at later stages also shows that the book was man-made from the start and not preserved.
Thus it wasn't "preserved by God" or "inspired by God" like you claim
Draugh39 4 months ago
@Draugh39 1) again isolated one or two little passages that were most likely not part of the original does not prove mass corruption.Christians do not claim every single copy the scribes ever wrote down was inspired, but that the original was inspired and God preserved its message.The Bible we read today is essentially the one they read back then.
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
@GodLovesUs100
The Iliad we read today is virtually the same as the oldest copies we have of that book as is the Epic of Gilgamesh (both written well before the Bible). This does not speak towards divinity or divinely inspired work.
The Bible is just a book like so many other ancient scrips and has been through many revisions over the years, as is clear from textual studies of it .
There are over 30'000 different Christian denominations in the world today, obviously the message has changed
Draugh39 4 months ago
@Draugh39 we dont claim preservation necessary proves inspiration, we say inspiration lead to preservation.Actually, it's not clear at all.Take for example the Dead Sea Scrolls, dated hundreds of years before Jesus, and yet virtually the same as we read today.Sketpics always claim these ridiculous claims, yet do not provide actual manuscripts to prove mass corruption.And man's personal preference, interpretation, or even deviation from the text still does not change it's meaning.
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
@Draugh39 we dont claim preservation necessary proves inspiration, we say inspiration lead to preservation.Actually, it's not clear at all.Take for example the Dead Sea Scrolls, dated hundreds of years before Jesus, and yet virtually the same as we read today.Sketpics always claim these ridiculous claims, yet do not provide actual manuscripts to prove mass corruption.And man's personal preference, interpretation, or even deviation from the text still does not change it's meaning.
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
@GodLovesUs100
I quote:
"While some of the Qumran biblical manuscripts are nearly identical to the Masoretic, or traditional, Hebrew text of the Old Testament, some manuscripts of the books of Exodus and Samuel found in Cave Four exhibit dramatic differences in both language and content. In their astonishing range of textual variants, the Qumran biblical discoveries have prompted scholars to reconsider the once-accepted theories of the development of the modern biblical text ..."
Draugh39 4 months ago
@Draugh39 (cont...) for example, I could take a passage of Jesus like let's say, the parable of the ten virgins(still fresh in my mind for i just read it this night lol) and make up my own explanation of what the texts means that has absouletly nothing to do with what Jesus was talking about.my gross mistakes still does not dilinate his message at all, it does show my foolishness, but the message of Jesus still stands strong in it's original context and meaning.
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
@GodLovesUs100
If you have 30k Christian denominations that show that the meaning of the text can be interpreted many ways, from this follows that the message is not clear. If the message was clear there would be only ONE interpretation.
We humans have no problems writing things which are unambiguous; we do that in mathematics and science. So we humans are better at preserving ideas and messages to the following generations than thi