911, Israel and Shlomo Sand

[laryon]

Do you find it unusual that the Lembas are of color yet they have 17 of the 17 markers that constitute the Cohen modal haplotype and the Cohen are white ?

[Tomislavv2]

@laryon

No I do't because I know the principals of genetics.Do you know that about 40% of genome of African Americans is European?

[laryon]

@Tomislavv2 Lmao !!! No shit they were kidnapped by European's so 40 % genome is no surprise.

Okay since you know the principals of genetics wouldnt it take two dark parents to produce a dark child.

You can't get black from white so how do the Lembas (who look native african) and carry Cohen model haplotype and have white skin. I am not trying to be racist or anything I am only interested the facts.

[Tomislavv2]

@laryon

Wery simple my friend.

Every human have 22 autosomal chromosome pairs from mother and father ,(44) and the remaining pair is sex-determining XX for Woman and XY for man.We are now speaking ONLY ABOUT 1 CHROMOSOME Y CHROMOSOME which is inharited from father.(CMH is related only to Y DNA)So the grand grand... father of Lembas was Middle Eastern and he pased his Y chromosomes to descendans,but all the females in Lemba clan were native African(intermarrige).

[Tomislavv2]

@laryon

So YDNA of Lemba is Middle Eastern but the rest is manly African as all the woman LemBas intermarried were African.Genetically therfore Lembas are 1-2/46 Middle Eastern and 44-45/46 African.

I am far for being racist,hope you wont misunderstand me.

[laryon]

@Tomislavv2 Lemba males carry a higher concentration of this Jewish priestly DNA chromosome than the European and American Jewish population, and are therefore more Jewish than the European and American Jews. Although the Bhuba tribe has this Kohen haplotype in higher percentages than the Ashkenazi priests, the non-Bhuba Lemba still has the highest percentage of this Kohen haplotype outside of the priestly order of Cohanim. This means that it is still higher than the Ashkenazim and Sephardim .

[Tomislavv2]

CMH is not the measure of Jewishness, neighter is CMH the point of this studies.In order to understand the genetics,please enable me to send you this facts However Lemba tribe do represent a male genetic part of the Land of Israel and Jewish diaspora and the fact that a Polish Jew has a relationship to South African Lemba and that this relationship is determianble even 3000 years after they split is amasing and represent the tragic prove of the people who lost their land but never forget it.

[Tomislavv2]

@laryon

When the first diaspora happened and when the male ancesteros of Lemabas were exilled in 6th century B.CE

or 700 years before the rest of Jewish people,the babylonians expelled mainly the Jewish elite namely,the Cohens.Although there was no halacha in II century B.CE which forbid in those years Jewish intermarrige,there were Cohenic rules in those days not to adopt males in Cohen tribe.That Cohenic ruling was observed by Lembas and that's why their male line has this unique ME origin

[Tomislavv2]

Read genetic studies (Hammer Behar Nabla Shen Molutsky Cruciani,Thomas Nebla Semino and others)

The genetic origin of all Jews from the Land of Israel is proven by science

[laryon]

@Tomislavv2 Genetic Origin ?

[Tomislavv2]

@laryon

Yes genetic origin.50 or so genetic studies will be sent to you in PM.

[Tomislavv2]

@laryon

I tried to send you the huge collection of genetic science and studies regarding the origin of Jews.I do not understand why you don't allow PM's?However by your restriction I was unable to do so.

[laryon]

@Tomislavv2 I dont quite understand what you mean Genetic Origin ..Origin from what or whom. ?

If you could just tell what you mean I dont have time to read a study.

[laryon]

@Tomislavv2 the Cohen modal

haplotype' is a signature haplotype for the ancient Hebrew population is a genetic marker from the northern Middle East

which is not unique to Jews. However, its existence among many Kurds

and Armenians, as well as some Italians and Hungarians, would seem to

support the overall contention that Kurds and Armenians are the close

relatives of modern Jews and that the majority of today's Jews have

paternal ancestry from the northeastern Mediterranean region.

[Tomislavv2]

@laryon

No because the Cohen modal falls exclusively to J1 haplogroup which is excluively seen as "Semitic'' while the mediteranian haplogroup is E

although due to migrations from Middle East it allso appereas in very few peoples of Northern fertile Cresent.

Beside Jewish cohens CMH is most represented among Negev Bedoins and Yemeni Arabs.It does not exist in general Hungarian population or any European people (except in cases where the individuals have Jewish or Middle Eastern genetic origin)

[laryon]

@Tomislavv2 The problem with any such study in the middle east is that there are

no "pure" races in existence today in the region.

Over the past 1300 years, especially due to the influence of Islam, we

all mixed and inter-married.

Therefore we cannot claim ethnic purity or Nations, its impossible.

It all depends on the who was taken in the sample, the sample size and

which people were chosen and for what purpose.

[laryon]

The original scientific research was based on the discovery that a majority of present-day Jewish Kohanim either share, or are only one step removed from, a pattern of values for 6 Y-STR markers, which researchers named the Cohen Modal Haplotype (CMH).

[laryon]

However it subsequently became clear that this six marker pattern was widespread in many communities where men had Y chromosomes which fell into Haplogroup J; the six-marker CMH was not specific just to Cohens, nor even just to Jews, but was a survival from the origins of Haplogroup J, about 30,000 years ago.

[Tomislavv2]

@laryon

If you read genetic studies of Ariela Oppenheimer you will see that all natives of Middle East and Kurds are related.Both Palestinians and Jews are very close to the Kurds.Cohen Moadal is not a marker of Israelitism but a marker of Middle Eastern origin.Considering Hungarians,Italians they do have insignificant J1 share which is close to zero.Individulas may cary J1 haplogroup just if they have eighter Jewish or Arabic origin or are descendans of this people.J1 do not exist in Europe

[laryon]

@Tomislavv2 Haplogroup J is mostly found in South-East Europe, especially in central and southern Italy, Greece and Romania. It is also common in France, and in the Middle East. It is related to the Ancient Romans, Greeks and Phoenicians (J2), as well as the Arabs and Jews (J1). Subclades J2a and J2a1b1 are found mostly in Greece, Anatolia and southern Italy, and are associated with the Ancient Greeks.

[Tomislavv2]

@laryon

Please if you quote wikipedia quote it corectly.We are not speaking about J but j1(although J-is not "mostly found in south East Europe'' but J among Europeans is mostly found in South East Europe.J (wjich means j1+j2+other J) is rare among Europeans but exist in south Europe due to human migrations

CMH belongs exlusievely to J1 haplogroup.Look j1 distribution

wikipedia(.)org/wiki/File:Dist­ribution_Haplogroup_J1_Y-DNA(.­)svg

visit wikipedia(.)org/wiki/Y-DNA_hap­logroups_by_ethnic_groups

[Tomislavv2]

@laryon

So CMH is representing what was before genetic era called ''Semitism" J1 is virtualy appsent in Europe and J2 exist among South Europeans who were in hystoric relationship with Middle east.However among all Europeans J(which means j1+j2+other J is are representing a minority haplogroups because J originates from Middle East.

In the same time J1 is almost appsent in Europe.

[Tomislavv2]

@laryon

Haplogroup J is found in greatest concentration in Southwestern Arabian Peninsula. Outside of this region, haplogroup J has a presence in North Africa. It also has a moderate presence in Southern Europe (especially in central and southern Italy, Malta, Greece, and Albania)

Here is the BEST adress to see J haplogroups distribution among peoples

thegeneticatlas(.)com/World_Y-­DNA(.)htm

[Tomislavv2]

@laryon

I see that you are from Egypt.Do you know that Egypt has less j1 than Ashkenazi Jews?

Do you know that owerall J is less in Egypt than among Ashkenazi Jews?

What do you think why?

[laryon]

@Tomislavv2 I still dont understand what is your point concerning genetic origin ?

What exactly are you saying ? Originating from ?

[Tomislavv2]

@laryon I sent you ore than 50 genetic studies carried out by world leading genetic scientists and world leading genetic institutuions which proved

1.The comon genetic origin of all Jews

2. The Middle Eastern (Israelite)origin of all Jews

[laryon]

@Tomislavv2 To my knowledge genetics play's no part in a Jewish identity because a Jew is some one whom practices Judaism I am I correct ?

[Tomislavv2]

@laryon

Well actualy no.By Halacha(Jewish Law) a Jew is a person who is born from Jewish mother.By Halacha (Jewish law) conversions to Judaism are not encouraged and from II century they are almost impossibal.(considering ortodox Judaism) which is the only Judaism that Israel recognise.)

It takes almost 7 years and more than 99% never complete it

[laryon]

@Tomislavv2 So How do you explain the Lemba Tribe ?

[Tomislavv2]

@laryon

Thomas and all made a very good study regarding the Lemba tribe,namely Buba clan.The ancestors of Lembas were Semites,most likely Jews who migrated south after the destruction of Judea in 6th century B.CE.,probably through Yemen where they setled for cc 4 centuries.As they didnt took any male into Buba clan,their Y DNA remained Middle Eastern.As Judaism was not so developed in 6th century they lost some of the Jewish rituals,but the knowledge of Israelite ancestery remained

[Tomislavv2]

@laryon

If you wish all 50 genetic studies just enable me to sent you.