A Christian Response to Homosexuality Part 6

[jsashapitbull]

Not trying the be biased, but the homosexual guy is totally outmatched.

[shawso7]

^ TOP COMMENTS by VorthosForum & BruNoLoCc RULE ^

4:24 SLAVERY?? That is another study, but the bottom line is "slaves" IN THE BIBLE according to GOD's STANDARDS would be liken to servants or employees today. It was against the law in Israel to abuse, mame, or kill your "slave". Slaves were set free every 7yrs with provisions & land, unless THE SLAVE decided he or she wanted to stay. So to try & use the "Slave Card" is crap! WTC!!

[myladyschild]

you were told now you have no excuse, you are warned and deep in your heart you know the truth, but, you do not listen you live the way you want, not the way God wants you to live! Jesus replied, "Friend, do what you came for." Mathew 26:50

[smurfboywv]

Mike Brown says the bible is against gays, but is says nothing on the topic.

[chadrivas]

I have often wondered why the homosexual arguement always comes back to slavery? If your argument is so strong to debate, it should be able to stand on it own merits with bibical emphasis.

[kilojake]

The written Bible isn't completely true. It was written by people. If you have ever witnessed the ridiculous unfolding of a rumor you can see how facts can become inaccurate very quickly. Communal reinforcement is rampant in religion. People believe what is popular, generation after generation. The Bible declaring itself to be written by God doesn't prove that it was written by God. Any book can claim that. At best, it points. The truth is to be found in your own sincere, listening heart.

[mis2amigos]

You are deceived God cannot be mock. You reap what you sow. repent.

[disposablefreedom]

I agree with the gay guy...period

[myladyschild]

@disposablefreedom you disagree with the bible...period

[disposablefreedom]

@myladyschild That's your opinion..I happen to read the Bible often :/ The Bible is written parabolic.. It is interpeted by the rader in the way it pertains to the reader. I read the bible in it's original form.. Learn Hebrew and Ancient Greek and then we'll talk..The Bible is taken out of context in translation.. I know I have read and studied the original scriptures in thier original languages.. Do that and you might just be suprised what you learn.. :/

[myladyschild]

@disposablefreedom Truth is Truth an educating myself in Hebrew or Ancient Greek does not change the truth If you can not hear Gods voice it is because his sheep hear his voice.

[disposablefreedom]

@myladyschild Actually it does change what you call truth. The Bible was written in those languages and being a translater myself, I can tell you that it is taken out of context to distort the TRUTH you think you know. Maybe you should study the proper language and actual scrolls before you make a judgement on something that effects so many lives.. People who make rash and unfounded judgement without knowledge of TRUTH and wisdom is what's wrong with religion today.. :/

[rlavender21]

He is under a deceptive spirit, cause the Holy spirit will never and i mean never contradict the Word of God, because he is God. So let this be a warning to all believers, you can be decieved by an evil spirit even as a christian if you do not compare what thought you are recieve with the word of God, and call upon his spirit to illuminate you as to what it is saying.

[edmondgeorge3]

stubborn man doesn't want to listen

[clockworkcorvid]

Yes, the bible does say not to be gay. More the reason to stop being afraid and start thinking for yourself. The bible is full of horrendous things that can be made good with effort and extremely creative interpretation, but you know what doesn't need to be explained away? Conscience. I'm an ashiest and i still know right from wrong, i don't need cosmic punishment or reward to be a good person. Imaginary friends are for children, make some real change.

[MamaMario13]

@clockworkcorvid I agree, Im gay atheist and it saddens me to see people needing to reconcile their beliefs with some myths about ressurections, magic snakes, talking animals etc.

[LaMOi1]

Infact I think its a profound contrast between each speaker - one time and time again goes back tothe Bible illustrate his point, and the other doesnt, infact suggests we should move beyond the Bible to a essentially PC worldly view.

[LaMOi1]

I think thats the whole, point, when people start moving away for scripture as the final Word on truth... There you have set yourself adrift...

[FreeMason34]

Sooo... do not change the literacy on the verses that attack homosexual acts, but do change it for those other ones which ask us to stone our marrying non-virgin women?

You´re either a literalist bible thumper and must obey the whole things, (even the ones you don´t like) or, become a soft christian who looks on at the bible as a reference for intelectual and spiritual guidance. BTW the bible is totally fore slavery. Why don´t we debate on that instead. Why´s it always about the gays?

[nofalltoofar]

"Wellllllll, the Holy Spirit totally told me it's ok to be gay even though the Bible says it's not and I just told you it did. The Holy Spirit tells you it's ok to commit incest? Oh, you're just blaspheming. Oh yeah, and no argument works against mine because I'm nice and kind and accepting of everything except people who don't accept my lifestyle."

I guess I'd say that too if I was getting my ass kicked with hard logic. (Also, to settle this, scripture never affirmed slavery. It detailed it.)

[eggrollmama]

this is definitely the defining moment in this debate

at minute 2:00, he says that some people hold the Bible as an idol, and rather we should listen first to what God is telling us and then we talk about these issues and then we listen to what the community says about this issue. wow, that says it all. the Bible is not the authority to this guy; it's his own subjective authority that is the standard.

[DanLee8884]

@eggrollmama

The issue is not as simple as that. The Bible was intended to be read in community: the immediate and even the saints of the past. Where did we get the Bible from? From the jewish tradition. They understand the scriptures to be this way therefore they have commentaries upon commentaries in their scriptures. They take to account communities in reading the scriptures. Also look up sola scriptura and prima scriptura, There is a diff btwn Bible being only and it being the prime.

[DanLee8884]

@DanLee8884

I think Wesley worded it best (i think it was him) Scripture is primary but we also have Experience, Reason, and Tradition. If you think about slavery, the scripture was used to keep it going, yet by experience and reason, Christians stood up to what really was right. I am not saying that that is what we are doing with homosexuals (although they might say we are ). That is why we need to listen to what they are saying carefully.

[ExposeSatan]

This is really about whether or not the Bible is the authority or a tool only used when it is convient for you. There is no "Gay Church", "Fornicating Church", "Lying Church", "Racist Church" and so on....There is only one True Church and that is the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ is invisible but tangible. Christ is seen through the acts of men and women. The Bible is the measuring rod. It is the standard where with Jesus Christ will judge us all by. Unconfessed Sin = Eternal Death!!

[MamaMario13]

@ExposeSatan .......yes.......eternal death........that is what willl happen to me and to everyone

You die and you rot in the ground, sorry no 72 virgins!

[Dejavu12321]

Christian gay man??? That’s a complete dichotomy. Going to hell is not worth living in denial to appease a sinful lifestyle. Christians are called to remove all their sin including the abomination of going against Gods obvious design for women and men being together as he created us. Do not be deceived by anyone or anything including your own sinful desires. The word says work out your salvation with fear and trembling not embracing sinful desire.

[dorianstark]

@Dejavu12321 homosexuas are no diffeent than heterosexuals in a sinful lifestyle except there r some on both sides that live as less sinful as possible. dont be biast.

[anifbim]

This gay dude is totally deceived!!

[dorianstark]

@anifbim yes, decieved by some heterosexuals and we r all decieved from the bible

[anifbim]

@dorianstark What is your standard of living? Or do you even have any standards?

[dorianstark]

@anifbim my standard of living is as follows=TREAT OTHERS AS U WANT TO BE TREATED. CARE FOR OTHERS WHEN THEY ARE DOWN. LOVE UNCONDITIONALLY. EVERYONE IS EQUAL. IN A WORLD OF MANY, IF YOU CANT RESPECT ANYONE FOR WHO THEY R, FIND A COMMON GROUND & STICK WITH THAT INSTEAD OF THE DIFFERENCES. GOD BLESSES US ALL WITH GREAT GIFTS, WE SHOULD USE THEM FOR THE GOOD OF US, NOT AGST EACHOTHER. THERE WILL BE DARK FORCES THAT CANT ABIDE BY THESE RULES OF LIGHT, SO FOR THEM, I CLEARLY STAY ON MY PATH .

[BruNoLoCc]

This gay guy is really sending the wrong message to unbelievers. He's saying that we have moved past what is written in the Bible??? What?? What gives him that authority? The Bible is the standard we must live by, the whole Bible. We cannot pick and choose what we feel we have moved past in the Bible. The WHOLE Bible is God's infallible Word, and we must not disreguard anything in it

[mark40511]

@BruNoLoCc

So by that, you're saying women should be submissive to men and not ever speak in church, In the Old Testament, there are plenty of rules for slaves and slavery is obviously acceptable to God. Flip over into the New Testament and youll find slavery reaffirmed. God has not changed his mind on slavery. Colossians 4:1, Women cannot be leaders and must learn in silence and submission; and they can never teach or have authority over men (1 Timothy 2:11-12).

[anifbim]

@mark40511 Wow man, I just gotta say that you totally taking scripture and twisting it. You gotta read it in it's context. God's standard of living is very high. And where does it say women cannot be leaders. Your words are silly and you sound like and unbelievers. Is this the case? What has God done to you that make you so angry?

[mark40511]

@anifbim

It was sarcasm! The Bible IS a very dangerous book (or collection of books) that should be read with MUCH reason. Some of the most evil bastards in the world are closeted gay's who secretly "hook up" by night while by day spewing their anti gay by day. It's really sad. I guess their mentality is "if I act like I HATE them, they won't suspect me."

[grvcrazy]

@BruNoLoCc and whats ur point then? that u r still holding slaves in ur basement or that u speak up against it everytime a woman opens her mouth in ur church? coz as far as I can tell, he was trying to put this point across; that as a society, we have reasoned through somethings and disregarded them and let's face it; he has a point...

[regelemihai]

@BruNoLoCc

The Bible may be divinely inspired but it is, nontheless, a HUMAN work. It was written by humans who are fallible. It is silly to assume that we humans, limited in so many ways, can trascribe God's mind onto paper. This becomes abundantly clear when you DO read Leviticus 18 and 19. Among the moral maxims that are listed, one of which is the alleged anti-gay one, are completely mundane and dilute moral admonitions like "don't wear clothes woven by the two different materials(?!)

[dorianstark]

@BruNoLoCc unfortunately the bible has barbaric messages of hate, discrimination ,and murdering which isnt the foundation of a just and good nation.

[DanLee8884]

@BruNoLoCc

Let me respond to you first by saying that I still believe that homosexuality is not God's intent. However Knox is right in saying we MUST not let the Bible become an idol.  This is especially true if you believe in the triune nature of God. The Bible is not in that triune nature however the Holy Spirit is. So the question is who gets to say whose experience of the Holy spirit it real? The Bible does but the Bible does not say EVERYTHING. So we must continue in dialogue.

[Therite56]

Gay man you failed. You are deflecting from the main point. You are suggesting to change the scripture. That is abomination.

For Christians

Let's focus in our purity toward God.

Lest serve the God of love. Preach the Gospel to those who haven't heard. Those community in America have heard many times and it is enough. Let's forget them and do what we are called to do. Besides , do not let someone like this gay claims to be christian in your church. The whole church is going to be bad.

Love

[stoodOnAnArk]

Are we not told that the RUACH HA-QODESH is our teacher, and not man, and scriptures (1) written by man (so called) El inspired?

The Leviticus observances (Moses) of man were made obsolete by the second covenant. Gone, history, done away with; In fact Moses was prohibited from entering the Holy Land, why? He transgressed El.

(1) Contradicts the Ten Commandments.

Get over it , stop bearing false witness to the will of the creator.

Repent!

Love, Forgiveness, Charity.

[NtheNow]

Harry Knox rebutal was very weak at most. He controdicts his self because now he is say that to "idolize" the Bible is a mistake. When it was the Bible that he was saying the Apostle Paul was talking about temple prostitution not homosexuality. Now it is clear, the Bible is not the clear authority according to Harry Knox. He sounds just like "Joel Osteen". He is neither hot nor cold, he is just plan look warm. Notice how he keeps referring to women and slavery when his back is against the wall.

[grvcrazy]

@NtheNow those might be his last resorts but he still has a point. Doesn't the bible endorse slavery and clearly state that woman is below man? Why r we then jumping over this as being so quick to attack him because he used it due to lack of a better reproach?

[NtheNow]

@grvcrazy First of all the Bible doesn't endorse slavery mankind does. What the Bible said about slavery was that the master was to treat the slave (servant) with respect and free him of all his debt after a certain time. The Bible doesn't say a woman is less than a man. The Bible said that God gave Man headship over the Woman but not Lordship. Women are very dear to God and there are many scriptures informing men how to treat their wives. The Bible in no shape or form supports homosexuality!

[dorianstark]

@NtheNow the bible is bullshit!! we all know this.

[NtheNow]

@dorianstark Not worth a comment!

[dorianstark]

@NtheNow i shouldve explained my anger when i commented on the bible being bullshit. i was angry at the time and i shouldve explained myself, i apologize abt that. i read your comment on homosexuality, slavery, and the topic of woman in the bible. how can you support a book in which has so many barbaric stories in it?kill homosexuals. kill a wman who wears 2 different threads.stoning people for no good reason.shellfish?skin of a dead pig?the ark and noah. a man lived in a fish?

[NtheNow]

@dorianstark Mostly everything you mentioned about the Bible that you have a problem with can be answered. It takes an open neutral position so that we both can have dialog. It's more believeable that a man can "live in a fish" than that the United States went to the Moon with 1960's technology.....by the way, we have never been back since even with 2010 technology! Much Love!

[dorianstark]

@NtheNow while i dont agree with the bible, i do agree with our govt covering up and lying abt the moon trip. among the many other things. i dont trust our govt anymore.

[NtheNow]

@dorianstark No problem, at least we agree on something, LOL! Govt can't be trusted!

[dorianstark]

@NtheNow I concur. i am so disapointed and ashamed of our govt. have u seen the 9 11 conspiracies? its crazy. what r ur thoughts? and we r setting a great example right now, i feel people should stop finding their differences and finding their simularities. we just did that and i appreciate you for it. thanks. DORIAN

[NtheNow]

@dorianstark Have you ever heard of "Alex Jones"? Well I have come to believe that 9-11 was "False Flag" operation.....A self-inflicted wound that would bring the "Banks" crashing down from all the insurance claims that would have to be paid out. I believe in the illuminati, Masonic, New World Order of One Government, One Currency, One Military Rule....For the Bible speaks about this during the time we are currently living in....this is some of my beliefs in a nut shell, LOL!

[dorianstark]

@NtheNow i have not hrd of alex jones as of yet i dont think. but i agree, theres such groups u mentioned that r out 2 hide behind their iron curtain while they pull strings n their favor while we suffer. you know, i must say, as some1 who doesnt approve in what the bible says, i have to admit, that theres some good info on prophecy & the secret dark groups behind our govts. the signs r everywhere as well as in the bible. what r ur thoughts on jesse ventura? i like him alot. jesse 4 president.

[NtheNow]

@dorianstark Hey let's not take up this page with our convo...send me messages through youtube.....I would love to talk further. Thanks!

[anifbim]

@dorianstark You will have to answer one day to God for every idle word you speak, so I suggest my friend, you be very careful with the words you choose.

[dorianstark]

@anifbim i talk to GOD everyday and trust me, it isnt i who has our LORD wrong. i am secure in my spirituality. for what comes out of my mouth is knowledge of him-her.

[anifbim]

@NtheNow Now that's what I like to read. Thank you for your comment. Ppl are so ignorant on these subjects, it just makes me upset.

[NtheNow]

@anifbim Don't get upset my friend with ppl's ignorance.....just pray that the light of God's Word will shine through their dark hearts. Remember, we don't have defend God, He is all powerful......we just have to give simple reasons why a person is lost eternally without Him..........Stay strong my friend and contend for the faith that is set before you! GBU!

[dorianstark]

@NtheNow i would like to hear your thoughts on the bible and u mine so we can learn from eachothrs views and opinions, if thats ok with u?

[anifbim]

@grvcrazy What the hec are YOu talking about.? You abviously don't know what the scriptures says. Women are not below men!

[VorthosForum]

Interesting series. This episode contains the "aha" moment. After first claiming a high degree of reverence for the scriptures, Knox completely folds after Brown lovingly but powerfully rebutts his peculiar exegesis. So what is Knox left with? An appeal to his subjective experience with the Holy Spirit that is supposedly just as authoritative as the Bible - actually more because it is contrary to it. Father, have mercy on this poor, self and sin-deceived man.

[Tommygun65]

So because he is not black and white on an issue is it bad. He is suggesting a middle way , of using both your mind and the bible, while I would argue Dr. brown seems to just condone holding onto past ideas while stating he is ok with change. In the end going by the great philosopher Aristotle and his idea of the middle way, Knox condones with this more then Dr. brown.

[Addy4473]

@VorthosForum Mercy indeed :(

[DanLee8884]

@VorthosForum

But he is not folding at all. I think he is right to talk about the Holy Spirit since it is not the Bible that speaks to us, it is the Holy Spirit. Ultimately the argument of interpretations will go nowhere. The question behind it is whether each interpretation is God given. It is interesting that you say "subjective experience with the Holy Spirit". The Christian gay community is a community so their experience isnt subjective, it is a commonly shared experience among many.

[DanLee8884]

@VorthosForum

I don't want to argue especially because we are on the same side( even in regards to homosexuality). However we must take into account what is being said by the gay community. We must react differently than just drawing a line and say things like you have about the Knox. In the light of how the Bible had been used in the past to enslave and hurt people, it is crucial that we open our ears to people that say our scripture reading is marginalizing them.

[HaShim383]

@VorthosForum man thats a great rebuttal, I was actually getting ready to post something close to what you said. But you said it perfectly

[horny4bears]

their just scared, and cowering in the comforting blanket, that you only feel when closen yourself off to all other things but blind faith, to see what they feel

urkes me, is how hypocritical they forget due to emotional appeals

e.g. not one word should be changed, yet church has blatently done so to find its 'new' calling through history.

knock one pillar out, I can understand to hve faith it wont crash the builiding down, but this and other religions are only on one pillar alone,blind faith

[horny4bears]

scriptures are far from the original 'context', even the hewbrews scrolls, after over 5 redifinitions of words, was finally in consensus to stop changes, then by chance *shrug* new testment stories began to be told from traveling people.

found it easier to coerce people into faith, than teach an help them understand what took place, then and now.

sigh, doubt we'll see this reterig fade like the rest of the customs of those days.

peoples fear, and greed for eternal life is to strong

peace

JC

[horny4bears]

ps

sorry folks,you placed so much work an effort into this,your still grasping at anything that feels sturdy enough to stand upon, in the sea of reality,we all are afloat in

perhaps some of you will see the beacon of science, and understanding that the church failed to hold down as well that islam has. You always come to the shore claiming praise god for the knowledge and growth, then spit in their ways, sigh

only if you kept studying and learning, instead of being dupped into complacencey

[jerrydoubleu]

just another jerk off religion.