"So Does Scripture Say Anything About Election?"

[polopowers1]

God does not predict or control both words have supposition possibility of another will.Prediction supposes future events could go two or more ways but God predicts the correct one; No, God ordains all and is at perfect rest.And because God ordains I still live in a subjective reality not knowing His perfect will and act in faith not like a robot.Free will and ordaing faith work from same position of ignorance except ordaining looks to accept God's will while free will hopes to change it.

[The5pointsofgrace]

@eromhsa1. Explain Romans chapter 9

[CBALLEN]

''The problem is that man is rebellious & will not die to Sin & be born again''

The Bible tells us that all the natural man can do ,in that state,is evil,man can't even obey God until God first regenerates him unto salvation,we believe only after God has regenerated us.Acts 13:48.... And as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. God appoints all His children to eternal life in eternity past,it's only these(elect) who will believe.

[Romans1014Preach]

It is my belief that YHWH wants ALL to be saved. The problem is that man is rebellious & will not die to Sin & be born again. We must die to Sin & the flesh.

Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

If we do not see ourselves as sinners, then we will never repent ! Of course we must believe as ONLY Jesus Christ can forgive us of Sin & wash us clean.

Praise the LORD Jesus Christ !

[thatsleepguy]

Missionaries that believe the Calvinist way would be an Oxymoron...You are created for heaven or hell and you can do nothing to change that..May G-d have mercy on those false teachers of predestination.

[CBALLEN]

@thatsleepguy God had 2 groups of people before time ,1 to save and 1 not to save God foreknows(loved intimately) His elect in eternity past,these are the ones HE CHOSE to set His salvific love upon,While goats were created for God's eternal plan,they weren't created for salvation,but reprobation and justice.God writes the names of those whom He will save in The Lamb's book of life before the foundation of the world ,the rest weren't written there.Rev 17:8,Eph 1 :4-11

[Eromhsa1]

Paul said that God would have "ALL MEN TO BE SAVED" so evidently your idea of what God wills is contrary to Paul's understanding of God's will. If it is totally up to God's will, and God wills all to be saved, then ALL WILL BE SAVED because His will must prevail regardless of man's will! Don't you see how foolish this doctrine of Calvinism is??? But obviously you are wrong because all men WON'T be saved even though God desires it, because all men have a will to either choose or reject His mercy.

[Eromhsa1]

ALL CALVINISTS ARE INCREDIBLY IGNORANT AND CAN ONLY COME TO THEIR FOOLISH CONCLUSIONS BY READING CALVINISTIC DOCTRINES! NO ONE EVER COMES TO BELIEVE SUCH A STUPID DOCTRINE BY READING THE BIBLE. IT SEEMS YOU POOR CALVINISTS CAN NEVER EVER TRULY KNOW FOR SURE IF YOU'RE SAVED UNTIL AFTER YOU PERSEVERE TO THE END AND DIE! BUT JOHN SPOKE WITH CERTAINTY WHEN HE WROTE, "BELOVED, NOW ARE WE THE SONS OF GOD..."

[Eromhsa1]

Yes, God predestined that ALL who choose to BELIEVE the Gospel will be saved, and that ALL who choose to reject it will be damned. He DID NOT predestine who will believe or reject! This is the only true election spoken of in scripture, that God sovereignly chose to save ONLY BELIEVERS!

[fish5133]

I can do one thing that God cannot do--- Lie

[polopowers1]

If God does not ordain all things He only ordains some things. Therefore being only semi in control of all this is not possible.God does not control all things as if somethings of His controlling has another possibility. God ordains all things and nothing of His will is relagated to another for excuse of His ordaining.There is only one power that of God

[k0smon]

I must agree with Bart Ehrman : the bible is the word of man, not the word of God.

[gregrutz]

God's Love ?!?

Let's look at some of God's morals, as written in the bible:

- If you work on a Sabbath, you should be killed [Exodus 31:15]

- If your son disobeys you, murder him [Deut 21:18 -21]

- Sell your daughter into slavery to pay the bills [Exodus 21:7]

- If your children curse you, kill them [Lev. 20:9]

- Women are subservient, they must remain silent [1 Tim 2:11-12]

- Slaves must perform any act you wish [Titus 2:9]

[xenoranger79]

There is a danger in saying that all events are controlled by God. It means that God chooses women to be raped, people to be murdered, and other atrocities. I believe God predestines people for Salvation. But God (in His sovereignty) allows things to happen that the believers may grow and mature in Him.

[RomansGalatians]

It's funny how these videos draw criticism from Rastafarians. LOL I can just see Mark Kielar in dreadlocks. A good teacher? yes; but reggae rhythm? uh, no.

[bjeol]

Believing this only brings me to apathy over my fellow human. It numbs my soul, and I lose any feeling of the love of God in my life. Certainly this isn't how Jesus felt or lived. He desired then and he desires now the souls of every life to ever be crafted by the Father. How can anyone live so selfishly as to think only of his own salvation? This is utterly empty.

[faithalonein1Christ]

FOR THE POTTER HAS POWER OVER THE CLAY ,HE MAKETH A VESSEL TO HONOR , AND ONE TO DISHONOR,FOR I ROSE UP EGYPT TO SHOW MY GLORY,TO DELIVER MY CHOSEN OUT OF THE HOUSE OF BONDAGE,THERE ARE EVIL MEN WHO CURSE GOD IN REV.AND WILL NEVER COME TO CHRIST ,BROTHERS OF CAIN,SATANS CHILDREN ON EARTH WHO HATE THE LORD,AND LEAD MEN ASTRAY INTO HELL.

[addason]

I have a little question for you. Since we are totally depraved from the womb, what happens if a baby dies before it is born? Does it go straight to Hell like a Calvinist would say? Even though it had done nothing wrong? And while we're on the subject, where does the Bible say that we are totally depraved?

[BesACB]

@addason There was this idea of limbo in Catholicism (but I'm afraid I'm not sure what exactly its doctrinal status is). An unborn baby would go to the portals of hell as it were. No special tortures with tantalizing mother's breasts, just the absence of life, happiness, heaven.

[harleycraig1]

@addason no the bible is clear in scripture that when a baby dies it knows no wrong and enters the kingdom of heaven. A chile that dies like that is sad but it is for Gods glory that maybe someone will come to Christ through the childs death.

His ways are not our ways

[MODERATECALVINISM]

Isaiah 55:12

You will go out in joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and hills will burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands.

[bejjinks]

And don't even get me started on those who claim to be righteous because they were born wealthy or because they've never been tempted by any big sins. We all deserve Hell.

[harleycraig1]

@bejjinks none are righteous. Our righteousness is like filthy rags to the Lord. Which means like a women menstrual cycle

[bejjinks]

@harleycraig1 I agree but you don't have to overstate it.

[bejjinks]

By the way, some justify their way by claiming that God makes them sin. I'm not criticizing LaneCh or John Calvin. As far as I can tell, LaneCh, John Calvin, and many Calvinists love the truth as much as I do. But some Calvinist extremists overemphasize predestination to the point of claiming we have no responsibility for our actions. Truth: we are sinners, we are guilty, we deserve Hell, but Jesus saves those who in the wisdom of God, he foreknew would turn from their way.

[harleycraig1]

@bejjinks Here is a great book that I just finished The Sovereignty of God by A.W.PINK check it out it really explains your questions. This is historical teaching which we have got away from.

[bejjinks]

It isn't knowledge of truth that saves. But how many of the comments expressed in response to this video demonstrate a love of truth? It seems to me that a vast majority of people do not love truth but love twisting the truth to justify their way. Some justify their way by claiming that God saves everyone. Some justify their way by claiming that their way is earning salvation. Some justify their way by claiming that their decision was all that was necessary. But we are all without excuse folks.

[e7c7o7]

What we have to realise is that every human being is Genesis 6:5-6 "And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart" No one deserves salvation, the fact that God wud choose someone like this to enter into heaven is the ultimate act of grace. We all must repent, and believe the Gospel

[Jacobrester]

Calvinism is the name the non believers have given to the true gospel

[1VisionaryMissionary]

What a heretic

[polopowers1]

God does not control that would mean a battle for possibility.God is at perfect rest,there is no action that has not been previously ordained.this is partial sovereignty teaching,not total.

[iint3grity]

- What is the difference between you and others which caused you to choose Christ while they reject Him? (John 6:37; 10:26)

- Is there anything that God did for you to bring about your salvation which He didn't do for those who reject the Gospel? (John 6:44; Acts 16:14)

[iint3grity]

God doesn't desire that any should perish. 2 Pet 3:9 harmonizes with the doctrines of grace. You can't deny the Scriptures that speak of election. The only way you can deny election is if you deny that God knows the future. If He knows the future, then He could have created an alternate reality with circumstances which include sufficient persuasion to compel all people everywhere to choose Christ. The fact that He chose not to let some hear the Gospel is proof election is true. He is sovereign

[HermitintheRain]

The reason God knows the future is because he is sovereign over the future. Nothing happens without God purposing it to happen. That's right: even evil. Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. God does whatsoever he pleases. Psa 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

All of creation-be they angels, devils, from the smallest electron to the largest galaxy-bows to the will of God-for he alone is sovereign

[xRaisethestandardx]

Wow...It never ceases to amaze me all the false doctrines that rise up from twisting one scripture after another. How many times has God said in the bible that it's His will that NONE should perish? Also how many times does He say that He is no respecter of persons? Get real people...stop picking and choosing which scriptures you'll completely disregard!

[polopowers1]

What Lane just said is election is sure.But God "predicts" and makes decisions about present reality? Is God still making degrees yet to be fulfilled?His will is final but He is making decisions. huh? God can predict because He can control huh?If God is only controling events He is in contention with another will! That would be impossible .God has ORDAINED all and is not acting but resting in His will.This doctrine is for all things not just election

[heyo82]

Question to those whom believe that men are able or even desire to choose salvation...how does that reflect in your prayers and petitions at the throne of Grace..."dear Lord, I thank You and Praise You that i was able to figure out on my own that i desperately need a Savior in Christ... hmmm...what is grace? and if this is true..does that mean that one drop of the Savior's blood was in vain? By no means! .The Lord said in Jn 19:30 "It is Finished." He didn't "try" to save..He Accomplished it.

[CBALLEN]

It seems the God knew what He was talking about once again as we see the dominant protestant belief being Arminianism.What was once branded herasy is now mainstream,how fitting to have this become, what it now is,an ear scratching doctrine that elevates man higher than God.This is not the gospel that Paul taught and it appears many will be accursed for teaching it.

[TennesseeOwnsMyBones]

And then comes the big calvinist cop-out: Dig up Romans 9, cry out 'Who are YOU to say to the Lord...' and all's well... Quit thinking, quit using that brain God gave you, just stop asking questions and kneel. Oh, and be sure to convince yourself you're special and part of the chosen few... screw the massa damnata, right? All for the glory...

[curvalecce]

Or one could try just trusting God, and living the way He commanded. He is Almighty, He made us, and He knows us right to the bone. The time then comes to throw away any reliance on human agency, even our own, to save us, and DO His work on Earth. The clarity to see how pure and just God is, comes through only through Grace.

Thus Romans 9 is not a cop-out, but a surrender to Love and Truth - He is Sovereign.

[TennesseeOwnsMyBones]

Calvinists sure love their 'special position', don't they? Their omnipotent God could just as well have prevented the fall, save everyone... but in his 'righteousness' he allows the fall, is the author of sin and then blames his creatures for it. And what do calvinists do? They worship this monster for it. That, my friends, is calvinism. A travesty.

[SimplyJPaul]

Calling The Doctrine of Election "Calvinist" is actually not correct. Calvin was the one who popularized it. The Doctrine of Election is not from Calvin, it is clearly taught in God's word by God.

[NewDirection4us]

I love this video. Especially the scripture being read. These scriptures make it so clear that The Father chose the elect and gave us to Christ Jesus. Jesus took all of our sins upon himself at the cross. We have no greater friend than Jesus. How many of us would go through what He went through to save someone? He is God's Son and He voluntarily went to the cross. For us!

[fulcrumpoint]

"If God does not control every event he does not control any event." That is an either or choice only - one extreme or the other. Why? Doesn't it deny God his choice as to whether or not to allow some events to run their own course and for how long or how completely.

[thinkinawink1]

perhaps God has chosen to control by choosing to control somethings and not other. He still preserves his control.

[rpavich]

fulcrumpoint,

It's either/or because the bible says that God controls every minute aspect of Creation.

You may not like it...but that's what it says.

[Exposingsatan]

God is in control but does let people destroy themselves .

The true children of God will follow yhwh

[rpavich]

Exposing,

So explain to me what verse that is taken from because what I see in scripture is that God is in control over every atom in the universe...ultimately.

What verse says that he "is in control but lets people destroy themselves"?

Is that what he did to Pharaoh?

Exodus 14:4

I will harden Pharaohs heart, and he will chase after them.

Not only did the Lord harden Pharaoh's heart, he tells Moses even before he sent him!

[parakeethands]

How long or how completely? This gives way to open theism. God does not release control to some things and let them "run their course"....He has purposed all things by the counsel of His very own will that He alone would be and will be glorified.

[apruitt2008]

true that

[rpavich]

fulcrum,

And the obvious question is:

Are these things "running their course" outside of God's plan for the universe or are they within his plan?

Your position is logically impossible given an Omniscient creator.

[thetruthsetsfree]

Great video! What a wonderful, mighty God we have! I love Him!

[fruitofspirit]

In another comment on Youtube, someone said that all Calvinists are insane - but that God must have presdestined them to be insane.

LOL!

I don't agree, but it did crack me up a little.

[msb0000]

"If God does not control every event, he does not control any event." If this is true, then James 1:14 makes no sense.

[rpavich]

Msb0000,

I believe what James is talking about is blaming God for our desires...he's not speaking of God's sovereignty or not.

From a traditional point of view; a reformed point of view; God is not the proximate cause of sin, nor evil...but because NOTHING in all of creation happens unless he decrees that it happen...then people say that God's the cause of it...and in that respect, I don't know how to avoid saying that he's not.

[parakeethands]

He allowed it for the greater purpose of sending the Redeemer as far as I understand it.

[apruitt2008]

thanks so much for your comment. i used to have that same question. but then i got a better understanding of romans 1. have u ever read it? it will REALLY help you understand sovereignty yet how God is not directly responsible for sin. Romans 1 says that when God removes his hand from people, or "gives them up to a debased mind," it's not an active thing- God doesn't ACTIVELY make us sin; he just removes his common grace from us and we act how we naturally do--evil. does that help??

[rpavich]

So...is there anything that happens in creation, even evil and sin, that is outside of God's plan and will?

[apruitt2008]

this is a question that i, along with many friends and church goers, have pondered and searched the scriptures for. you should search into the studies of the two wills of God. See Calvin, John Piper, Martin Luther, Charles Spurgeon, Andrew Fuller, to name a few. They've all written on it and have core arguments from scripture. They can dictate it much better than myself. Hope this helps.

[rpavich]

But that doesn't answer the question of "if ANYTHING happens in creation, is it OUTSIDE of God's will.

What Piper, Mac, and others say about the "two wills" is that the one will; all that happens is God's will; it has to be...

And then there is his "revealed" will, what He commands as His will.

But it doesn't change the fact that if something happens...it's because God wanted it that way.

[Ears14U]

Educationally satisfying. Someone has actually supported the doctrine of "Predestination" / "Election", and not

James Finney's ridiculous "altar calls".

[bereansearch]

the will does not naturally love God... It doesn't even accept the things of God, it is at emnity to God and needs to be changed. By God, by grace, through (the vehicle of) faith, AND THAT (is) NOT OF YOURSELVES it is a gift of God. Do men accept God because they are smarter than others??? NO. That is judging yourself better than another (like the pharisee & the tax collector praying) Understand election, and you will begin to understand grace.

[bereansearch]

Did God choose my parents, friends, era of birth, location to live, friends, hair, dispositions, personality make-up, strengths, gender, race, height??? But He can't interfere with my will? Why do we pray for Him to save the lost then? Is that not violating their will? Do they not desire to do evil and abandon authority? God interferes with people's will all the time. Why? Because HIS will is what can't be stopped, not mine. The problem is the human will is a slave to SIN, and loves it..

[bereansearch]

Honestly look at Noah and his family. Now think of the thousands, perhaps millions of children, infants, even unborn that were killed in the flood. Now, Noah preached, but God did not reveal Himself to all of them. He saved a remnant, a portion, some. It was His choice to do what He did. The ark (a type of Christ) was love, but the water was wrath. God went to Abraham and made him a promise. His purpose. He chose Israel, and no one cares, He is the same today!

[MRKetter81]

Even from a scientific stand point you can't deny predestination. Cause and Effect is a clear part of everything in matter and existance. Right down to every synapse in that brain of yours. Down to even the subatomic particals; ALL a subject to cause and effect. ACTION and REACTION, are clear evidence of distict and undisputible ordor, that even you're very thoughts are a subject to.

Your "will" is pushed around like a reed in the wind, and always will be.

[MGCAUSTIN]

"If God does not control every event, he does not control any event."

There is no basis for this statement.

[critter110]

I don't know about NO basis, but I would certainly agree that the statement you outline above is incorrect. If God controls every single event, then God is responsible for sin, not man. God is responsible for disease, starvation, and natural disasters. Before someone jams Rom. 9 down my throat, allow me to ask how starving people to death and killing with disease (as God would actively do in controlling "every" event) somehow displays "the riches of His glory."

[petemillner]

Well, i don't know.. can YOU control the climate of the planet, or the lifespan of all people- or all animals for that matter? The riches of the will of God are as unsearchable as the power itself. Can you take it from God or give it to him?

[loumasta]

What about Hezekiah? He told Isaiah to tell Hezekiah that he would die, but he prayed for his life and God granted Hezekiah 15 more years...

[sandroeleven]

I know its so odd...the bible contradicts itself constantly. Another verse says that god does not changed his mind and that he foretells everything. Therefore I dont hink prayer changes his mind even though you gave a verse.

[Shaymac48]

I really like this video.

[missionarysarahbarry]

If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property. Ex 21:20-21

You may also buy them from among the children of aliens among you, or from their families, whom the begot in your land. These shall become your property: you may keep them as a possession for your children, for them to inherit as property for all time. Such you may treat as slaves. Lev 25:44

[LaneCh]

Thanks for the Scripture, but what does it have to do with this video?

[newportvtman]

GOD does what is wanted no matter how we feel they should be no matter how good or bad or to those we feel are good or bad.

[jbjb9402]

I don't understand. If God chooses who will go to heaven, how can someone be blamed for not being chosen and going to hell forever? It doesn't seem fair. Can someone explain this to me? I'm not saying this teaching is wrong, I'm just trying to understand it. Please help me.

[LaneCh]

I can help, but you'll need to answer these questions. After you do, you'll understand it better:

Does anyone DESERVE God's grace?

[jbjb9402]

No they don't.

[LaneCh]

Good. The next question is:

Does everyone NEED God's grace?

[jbjb9402]

Yes they do.

[LaneCh]

Right. So if everyone NEEDS God's grace and no one DESERVES OR MERITS God's grace, doesn't it follow that God is the one who freely gives His grace to whomever He chooses if it's true that people do go to hell and others go to heaven?

[jbjb9402]

Yes, but I still don't understand why he chooses some people over others if no one is deserving of grace. Is it because God knew before the beginning of time who it was that would repent and follow Jesus Christ and who wouldn't? Is it just one of the mysteries of God that we'll never know? Am I wrong to even ask questions like this because it questions the sovereignty of a holy God?

[LaneCh]

Romans 9 will help you with these questions.

though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad--in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls--

(Rom 9:11)

Have you heard James White's exegesis of Romans 9? If not, you should because it will help you through this. It's in five parts. Here's the first:

youtube(.)com/watch?v=kiTxBftv­qnM

[jbjb9402]

Thank you. I'll watch the videos as soon as I can.

[loudowsonjr]

To answer your question in a word yes. You are wrong if in asking, you are questioning God's justice. Romans 9:14 and 9:19-21. Please don't allow what you don't understand to keep you from believing the truth of God's word. Study the whole book of Romans and I am sure you will get a peace in your heart about this issue. God be with you in your study.

[tat161161]

Calvinism and Arminianism are not the only orthodox views regarding what form predestination takes in scripture. There's a third often overlooked view called corporate(or Christocentric) election-'For He chose us IN HIM before the creation of the world.'Eph 1:4 'IN HIM we were also chosen, having been predestined according to His plan'.Eph 1:11. All who accept Him are chosen-IN HIM- by virtue of the fact that Christ himself was predestined to be our atonement before the foundation of the world.

[LaneCh]

To take that interpretation completely ignores the structure of the sentences. Look at Eph. 1:4 for example. He (the person who's doing) chose us (the person's object) in Him (where he does this) before the creation of the world. (when he does this. To say that "Christ was predestined to be our atonement" ignores the fact that the verb "chosen" is in reference to "us" (believers) not Christ (the "where"). Your interpretation is nothing more than eisegesis.

[holyisourking]

the dictionary defintion of control - To exercise authoritative or dominating influence over; direct.

Thats good stuff.

[macman13]

Well at least its good to see a christian who isn't holding on to stupid free will arguments.  Is this guy a Calvinist?

[LaneCh]

Yes.

[praiselordgrace]

what's guy name?

[LaneCh]

His name is Mark Kielar. If you search through the videos I've posted, you'll find many more videos by him. In fact, I highly recommend watching the six part video series called "Meek Does Not Mean Weak". He's also a pastor along with being president of CrossTV and that series is a sermon he preached recently. It's absolutely wonderful. It gave me such assurance and conviction.

[praiselordgrace]

Amen! thanks!

[nodrahma]

Yet another reaffirming video Lane... Thank you!

[sablechicken]

Great video.

[Bonigee]

Thank you for posting this....Excellent!!

[GEERUP]

powerful 5/5 thank you

[2corinthians710]

hey, the music in the background has been used in earlier way of the master episodes.

[AllHailXcelceor]

Well, that's his opinion (inside joke).

[LaneCh]

I get it. :)

[ProclaimHisWord]

Thank you Lane for uploading this,can anything be much clearer?