Battle Of The Somme - The True Story - Part 6 of 8

[AndyTheVole]

Just back from walking the battle line for our Uncle Herbert, Grenadiers at Ginchy.

September 15th 1916 He got the MM carrying his officer. He got a bullet in his buttock for his troubles. When I saw the photo of the unknown guy carrying his mate I understood why. Also his officer spent 2 years out of the war when Herbert got back after 3 months. His officer will have taken some of the Bullets with Herbert's name on them

[egonsky]

You r gonna tell me they found a piece of skull 100 years later...on the surface???

[safiiri]

@egonsky my thoughts exactly

[ryko26]

@egonsky er...yes

[MrZadokthePriest]

The reverence shown by the photograph expert and the crater guide towards an exposed piece of skull - and the desire to give it a makeshift yet respectful burial - is beautiful. These people obviously hold the soldiers who fought here - regardless of the side they were on - in high honour. 

Nice to see.

[Schragmeister]

How can they be so sure that's a part of a skull of someone killed at the Somme?

[356butch]

@Schragmeister For those of us who have spent time at these old battle sites, it becomes easy to pick out bone fragments and other details (you know what to look for). There were many German soldiers killed when the mine was detonated and they still find bits of boot leather and bone from time to time. An acquaintance of mine found part of a pelvis bone a few years ago.

[Rastonification]

In the video at around 9:14 and 9:25 not only do you see men on the hill being hit, but in the foreground it appears the officer is hit too.

[nelson3300]

At Ypres/Mess. ridge there were 19 underground mines, all detonated at the same time.. .killed 10,000 germans. That must have been a sight

[TASHKENTGOATMAN]

Hugman..yes do agree the Canadian blokes do get in the way i just fast forward them..the part ( part 5) where the lady lip reads the soldiers is the best realy ,realy good,,

[L337karma]

Sory for spelling errors these new I pads are strange for it

[L337karma]

Nacho 1560 in ww1 if you actually did that yup would shot as a traitor you have to remember these are canadians and brits that said they would fight a war in a different country not for there own people but for humanity.... Why don't yup man up join your military and see if there are Herod in my mind if you give up your jobs and your lively hood to try and save a people that is not your own is a hero not some fucking pussy who would play dead and not do his job stop degrading the memory of thes

[coolfundylan]

@L337karma Uhhhh, mhmm, okay.

[yogismusicworld]

I never realized that this was where the expression"over the top" came from. It meant going over the top of the trench line into the open field where you would become a target for the enemy.

[BigChiefMullet]

I forget the name of the book, i think its 'Panoramas of the Great War' but in it there is actually a picture(or a still more likely) of British troops retreating from this attack. The photo is titled 'British troops retreating in disarray on the First Day of the Somme' and in the photo you can clearly make out a Officer with a cane pointing back to the British lines. The worst bit is, there are only around 5 soldiers making their way back behind him.

Truly staggering. Lest we forget.

[BigChiefMullet]

@BigChiefMullet

Just to clarify,when i say this attack, i do mean this exact attack no just the Somme in general. The still must be from later in the morning/day.

[kinglijah]

th soldiers falling down in th film, are they British or German??......

[fezaz1]

@kinglijah british

[tiedupsmurf]

I don,t believe the bit where he found the piece of skull ,other than that ,loved the whole thing

[skatepunkzero]

Has anyone else noticed that the one candain is very gung ho and the other one is like what the hell am I doing here?

[ratmilkcheese]

If you remember in the beginning the more solemn one had actually seen combat in his career. I think that may account for his demeanor.

[reaperflynn3]

it would be incredible to walk where the battle was. standing right where thousands of solders were firing their rifles throwing grenades taking machinegun fire. it would be hard to comprehend what it would feel like i bet.

[SSSDiaz7]

That kind of feelings could only be described if one actually was there. I bet it would make anyone shiver, just thinking about that day and applying all the little battle details in creating your own modern day depiction of what happened.

[GourmetItalia]

@reaperflynn3

Agreed, although to be honest, I would probably shit my pants if I were alongside them because I'd be hoping to hell that I wouldn't be ripped apart by some god forsaken element of war. The sounds of artillery shells and machine gun fire raking the trenches along side me with men screaming from being ripped apart along with being exhausted, thirsty, seeing your comrades dead or wounded, and having to full fill your duty, not knowing when or where the war will end. That's war ...

[TheClaydon]

@reaperflynn3 speaking from experience. it is very moving. when i went it was a sunny day, but no birds sing on the battle fields. they were all someones son or husband, brother or father. very sad and utterly pointless.

[mrrmancunian]

I doubt it very much that the 'Skull' piece wasn't planted there.

After over 90 years, it wouldn't just be lay there exposed and clean as it looks...

[celston51]

There have been worse frauds committed for the sake of getting a good film. There are also laws about looting battlefield sites protected by each country's laws.

[mrrmancunian]

Well that's just it you see, some people will go to any extent out of disrespect for who they're talking about just to gain a bit of publicity.

[lostlemming]

@mrrmancunian

i dont think they would be so disrespectful as to plant a piece of skull there for good tv.

[mrrmancunian]

You never know in this day and age.

[Hugman77]

does anyone else find this sub plot with these two canadian blokes a bit....silly?

[wgjgoijgoeag]

ABSOLUTELY! waste of reels

[gdbalck]

The concept is interesting, but the execution leaves much to be desired. It should be a side note but becomes the focus of the film. Give me the history!

[DayveIsh]

I find many things silly. Like why is the guy at 3:00 wearing a high visibility jacket? The war has been over for 90 years, there are no snipers around.

[Neverhoodian]

@Hugman77 No more silly than all the anime cosplayers nowadays. Less so in fact, since the soldiers they're dressing up as were relatives that actually existed. They're trying to gain a bit of insight and perspective to what daily life as a soldier in World War I might have been like. In my mind, that's a damn sight better than dying your hair blue and striking poses with absurdly large cardboard swords.

(Note: I don't hate cosplayers, it's just not my cup of tea, so to speak)

[lightlittlebrownboy]

@Hugman77

Eh. Its harmless fun. Its just got no real place in this documentary.

[birchysk8]

can someone help me please on the footage they said was real with the people running down the hill were they allied soldiors or germans if there were allies why where they runing down the hill i thought they were fighting for the hill PLEASE SOMEONE HELP ME!

[sqTake2]

It's allied soldiers, the Germans were all in their trenches. It looks actually like they are running along the side and top of a ridge rather than up or down a hill. But that's just for the terrain shown in the footage, the landscape may have sloped upward at some point. The Germans were definitely holding the high ground though so I can see how it might be confusing as shown.

[kapelmuur]

Remember that the objective--the crater--is pretty much directly in front of the filmmaker and then he pans to his right to catch the British troops assaulting from right to left toward the objective. Imagine that the German positions are NOT at the top of the slope you see to the right upper-right, but rather out of the frame and over the ridge at the upper left. Fantastic sequence and great detective work by these guys! Well done.

[LoveKandR]

How did they lay the underground mine?

[Kettch23]

They dug a tunnel under no man's land.

[Threepwoodist]

@Kettch23 They also had to catch the debris and little rocks that they poked out of the earth with their rifles, cos the germans would've heard it.

[Mu51ch3r3]

@Kettch23 What battle in WWI was it that they detonated something like 20 mines? I thought it was later in the war and a couple of them never went off during the war yet one went off in 1955 killing a cow. The men who dug the tunnels would experience white out blindness from digging in the chalky earth for so long, I believe the men dug for two years to place all the mines properly.

[nacho1560]

No hill can be worth dying for, can it?

Not taking away the bravery of the men who fought in this awful war, but they were certainly lions led by donkeys.

[DavidCuthill01]

The hill was a strategic objective. Capturing it at a cost of 1000 lives could have saved 10,000.

It is also facile to dis the commanders. Haig for instance had to deal with hundreds of thousands of troops. He could arguably be credited with economical use of men. Put yourself in his shoes. Could you have done better?

[DavidCuthill01]

Haig also was responsible for the eventual victory. Had this not come, Paris and the whole of France would have fallen and millions of Alied soldiers and civilians would have died.

[ak47forever]

the brittish commanders actually ORDERED the solidiers too WALK in marching speed into direct enemy fire.

Exactly. lions led by donkeys :)

[RazorCell7]

that hill could have been protecting a supply line or in the case of Seelow heights civilians

you never know

I would definitely put my men in a trench on a hill

instead of low lands

that one hill was there strategic objective

knowing if you capture that hill or defend it you could save alot more soldiers for your side and knowing that i could have saved alot of people or soldiers then ever could

by making a sacrifice and fighting for my brothers in arms is worth it

[nacho1560]

Not everyone is a hero as you claim to be Razor. I doubt I could go into battle thinking that if I die I'm saving other lives after me. Self preservation, I say. I'd have played dead.

A lot of WWI battles consisted of each side chasing the others from their trenches and then the opposite happening a few days later.

Just my opinion but it was just carnage in which brave men died whilst not so brave generals watched through binoculars.

[RazorCell7]

you have a very very good point and i know not many people were heroes

but the amount of training and propaganda has prepared you for times like this and I'm sure many many great soldiers or new comers accepted the fact that they might not ever go home to see the daylight there

you signed up thinking it was an adventurer

a road trip that you tell stories about

but was you seen action in the front line.

you have to come to realize there are those soldiers that thought like a did & like yours

[MrShaneVicious]

@nacho1560 The idea that the generals were all cowards is false.  over 70 British Generals and about 80 German Generals were killed during the war.

[mard420]

I like the consciousness of Canadian soldiers to their past. they learned the history, which saves lives in the future

[FutureWarrior2006]

Sounds a bit like the Battle of the Crater in the US Civil War.

[hitmanisback]

trench warfare in europe wasbased on the american civil war, thatswhy it was so outdated

[FutureWarrior2006]

I know. it was a pretty good way to get killed. they used American Civil War tactics in a war with Machine Guns. A wonderful way to get massive amounts of people killed in a short amount of time.

[hitmanisback]

i think it was a cull by the leaders at the time ,what other excuse would there be for making men charge to certain death in a hail of bullets.

I cant understand what drove those men to go over the top, was it courage or fear of being shot at dawn, or by some 1 in the trench with a pistol,as happend frequently,

[ultradumbass]

not really, every full scale modern army war since ww1 including ww2 and korea was a trench warfare, when ww3 comes i can't see it being any different.

[hitmanisback]

my father faught in ww2 and he never faught in a trench are you mistaking it for a fox hole maybee ww3 will be over in 5 mins lol

[ultradumbass]

your dad than never fought in a trench because he most likely only fought the last months of ww2, because during dunkirk british and french made failed trench wars, russian front was only trench wars and village raids, and the african lines became a trench warfare when rommel tried evacuating his forces by stemming the allies advance, and no i do not think ww3 will be over in 5 minutes. you think too locse mindedly with your nuclear war ideas.

[hitmanisback]

my dad joind up in 1939 he was in the royal artilery on 25 pound field guns ,and was a bombadier (corpral),he was demobed in late 1945 before the end of the war ,and finished his service in the merchant navy ,he served in europe and in the desert for a while attached to the rats , he died in 1976 aged 61,he never faught in a trench there were no trenches in ww2,only fox holes,

dunkirk was only a small expaditionary force,and from what i can gleen they were a very mobile force,there you go

[ultradumbass]

i had relatives who fought in every single war canada has fought in, and hundreds of soldiers who are veterans who i either talked to or saw on tv, from several different fronts say the exact opposite of what your just telling me. so we would need a very big investigation to confirm who is right won't we?

[hitmanisback]

3 of my great uncles fought with the stafford shires in ww1 ,along with my scotish born grandfather from canada,every war can has fought in pmsl thats erm 2 then,youae confused you show me 1 piture of a man going over the top in ww2 ill send you 10 pound sterling ,oh if you want ill let you see my dads naffy medals as called them ,i got no need to lie i have nothing to prove you get info from tv and net lolo,i nevr ever heard of trench warfare in ww2 correct me if im wrong

[ultradumbass]

i don't need to look around, because i know you would not send me a penny if i found you 1000 of them.

[Triplesod]

Your old man fought in the second war, he died in the 70's? So, why the fuck do you type like a fucking idiotic teenager??

I have no doubts about what you are saying, and I have no reason to not believe your thoughts on trench warfare (though I think you are talking about a completely different practice of TW) but I just can't understand why you would write like that as a 50+ year old man.

DIGNITY MAN!!

[hitmanisback]

do i fucking know you kid im 42 and actualy ! of my kidS was typing for me ,so from an old timer get some respect somthing young kids today lack ,unlike the lads that died in 2 world wars aged 16 plus,do your maths my father died in 1976 aged 61 how does that make me 50 plus

[Triplesod]

Doesn't answer my question though, does it?

Anyway, you seem to take the internet too seriously, wouldn't worry so much if I were you mate, especially on this site, will drive you mad if you get upset at every message you get. For the record, I was trying to be lighthearted with you, I was hoping the "DIGNITY MAN!!" would show that but it is hard to suggest tone on here. Also my Great Uncles and great grandfather also fought and died at the somme. Both g-dads fought in 2, too. Also, I'm 30.

[cfdabull]

you need to read a little more history. there was trench warfare in ww2, look at the Battle of Kursk and the Battle of Berlin just to name a couple of examples.

[hitmanisback]

that wasnt pure trench warfare as in ww1 that was the od trench or 2 i mean where do you hear it said about the lads in the trenches in ww2 as in ww1,the trench was home for thousands of lads in ww1

[RazorCell7]

that's because WW2 was also mostly urban combat

but trenches were probably the best cover you can have and they still relied on it heavily

not as much as WW1 but enough to keep a good couple million alive till the end of the war

[montoniman]

You know things were bad if people's remains lie on the surface 90 years after the battle...

[SeikoHarlequin]

V interesting - thanks