Thanks for your comments and explanation. I trained in Beijing in 2004 & 2005 and again in Shanghai, Chengdu and Kangding in 2006. Teacher, Master and Grand Master are their ranks.
Since when are Chinese Martial Art Teachers, Masters and Grand Masters recognized by Belts? Recognition of perfection by belt is Japanese not Chinese.
@47WMATAIJI The Japanese adapted martial progress to their culture and created the belt system. Americans got accustomed to that and so most martial arts school have some sort of ranking system. Don't take it so seriously. In good American schools that teach Chinese arts, even a student who reaches black sash knows that they're just beginning. That said, I have to point out that there are levels in Chinese systems -- just not presented the same way. There's a disciple, an indoor disciple, etc.
When we look at the master's level, Chen's and Yang's Taichi are so much alike. While the beginners seem do far away different. Solute to Master Chen, he shows what the Chen's Taichi is supposed to be.
@KlausYTY This isn't a regular Chen form. It appears that Chen Xiaowang is "riffing" for the crowd at this huge tournament near D.C. It appears he's taken moves from the form and done something very different just for a short demo. But his movements in his forms are often different from ZhuTianCai, Wang Xian and Chen Zhenglei and others. Here's the thing -- the basic principles should be the same but the artist can add his own flair after he learns the art -- like a painter.
@kungfukennyg yeah I do actually my father practised it for many years. Oh wait I see your point, you can easily appreciate someone stamping their foot as an "explosive demonstration of power" when everything else they do is extremly slow, right? Instead of telling me what you think I don't know you could try being a little more educating. Sorry dude but calling someone ignorant right off the bat like that is just retarded, why are questions asked? To learn.
@guitarfetish342 You are right. Your question was asked in a rather rude way, so I assumed you were just another online idiot commenting on things they don't understand. The stomping isn't the powerful part -- the fajing that he demonstrates in the 2nd half of the form is. I would guess that your father didn't practice Chen style - most practice slo-mo Yang. Chen Xiaowang is getting older but the power in his fajing is legendary. So the form is yin and yang - 1st half very soft, 2nd half hard.
I do not take karate or tiger but was taught similar strikes in ninjutsu, I am more relaxed than the karate guys and believe in hand sensitiviy, rooting, push hands, sticking . however in a fight we need to pack a wallup,which i supplemented the internal with weights & bag work. I taiji pushed a karate champ. he just went back a little and came forward like a beast. He could take my non lethal shots & I could take less of his eventhough I deflected 85%. endurance, power, pain tolerance help.
@pa1019123 Chen Xiaowang would have just punched the guy in the face or when the karate guy punched, he would intercept his arm and break it at the elbow. Then he would put the karate guy on the ground. Hard. Here is a video of Chen Ziqiang -- nephew of Chen Xiaowang and son of Chen Xiaoxing. He's one bad mother. Search YouTube for Chen Ziqiang San Shou and watch him in action. I tried to put a link here but it wouldn't let me.
@kungfukennyg I didn't see the clip yet but I wil today. see the karate guy was in kukashin ryu (mas oyama) and when I did a strike,he said we can strike eyes and throats too.look up kukashin on you tube.(bad spelling) He showed me how to dislocate a jaw hinge with a strike and their power is external. he asked me why I like that mysterious stuff, qi? My doubt of internal power comes from this experience, someone may claim that they can break an arm, explode organs,but can they really?
@pa1019123 No, they can't do that. Chi is a myth -- ancient legend -- or an abstract way of looking at proper body mechanics. Internal arts like Chen tai chi and Bagua (when done right) produce the same power as karate and other arts but in a more relaxed way because of different body mechanics. It's a physical skill, but it takes even more time to get right, and that's why there are so few internal artists who can do it. Few will study an art for over a decade before beginning to understand.
@kungfukennyg Chi is not a myth, but it has been mystified needlessly. I do Tai-Chi and am also a western trained doctor (Chiropractor). Chi, is a very broad label used to describe phenomena. You write about internal mechanics and the transference of kinetic energy, but that is a form of chi. So is blood, nerve impulses, hormones, etc. There are also qualities labeled 'chi' that we've not be able to measure yet. Being practical is important, but I wouldn't throw out the broad concept of chi.
@pa1019123 if a chinese master is stomping their foot, have the power to root, yeild and whip their hands, does that mean that they can take a hit or deal with the flurries of a good boxer who is the opposite of rooting, light on their feet? I think that wing chun footwork and deflections and the shaolin type conditioning would work, including the internal they do, because it is mixed with external too. internal alone, I don't know I never real hit one and they never really tried to hit me.
@pa1019123 To see what real internal fighting is like (but without joint breaks and hard strikes) search on YouTube for Chen Ziqiang san shou. He is the nephew of Chen Xiaowang and he uses internal principles in the matches on this video. Like any good martial artists, good tai chi fighters can break someone in half very quickly.
maybe this man is good, but it doesn't mean he will teach you it. I am not a MMA though I follow the philosophy of absorb what is useful. Not everyone can have bruce's speed and power, so his method could actually be dangerous for others. I asked a sifu I was paying, about the dantein and he said what is dantein, later that week I found articles he wrote about it for the taij magizine. He was chinese and taught under Joe chen. I also met another who said you don't need chi gung or meditatio
@pa1019123 Chen Xiaowang is extremely good. But you are right -- that doesn't mean he will teach you. I've learned more in an hour from my American Chen taiji teachers than I could learn in a week with Chen Xiaowang. I've been lucky to have teachers who ask questions of the Chen masters and try to find out the why and wherefore. I also agree with you about absorb what is useful and use it in my teaching. After 12 years in Chen taiji, I find that it's so good I've barely scratched the surface.
@kungfukennyg I heard that the most effective art is baqua and old yang style taij. I did fu style under a student of bow sim mark and they are a push hands and forms judge in Berkley CA. I was told Fu was very rare and effective, there was an article in inside kung fu that this founder founght all other styles like Bloodsport movie. Fu zen zong? in real life i felt less able to defend myself against a large crazy kickboxer on meth that my sister was dating. I perfer Uchei ryu & clawing .
@pa1019123 Not sure how old Yang style could be more effective than Chen, when Yang lu Chan created his art after studying Chen style. I have yet to see a Yang person who can fight as well as a Chen person. Bagua is a great fighting art but it, too, evolved out of Chen tai chi. Silk-reeling is important in Bagua - it was created for Chen tai chi. In the end, it's the individual, not the art, that is the great fighter. All styles incorporate some of the same principles -- it's the interpretation.
@pa1019123 And that's the problem. A lot of people don't get deep enough into it to see just how effective it is, or they don't have teachers that will show them. A lot of these arts take many years to truly become good, but when you are good, you can go toe-to-toe with anyone. Of course, that's true in any art. The deeper you go into Chen taiji, the deeper it gets. It's an amazing fighting art, but like anything, you have to stick with it and work hard. The definition of "kung fu." :)
@pa1019123 Well, it doesn't come from "chi" in the way most people describe it. And by powerful I mean strong and effective. It comes from body mechanics that give you the ability to apply power in a manner that doesn't require a lot of muscular tension -- establishing and maintaining the ground path, peng (an expansive feeling that's a physical skill), whole body movement, silk-reeling (spiraling movement), dan t'ien rotation and opening/closing of the kua. And years of practice & application.
@kungfukennyg thanks well I have seen some of this type of power, the frustration comes from lack of finding a good teacher. If I had the opertunity to train in Chen again and they were good, I would do it too. But I need skills now in this violent world until the internal developes. for instance they say Yang is the best but not for today, when Chen maybe better, that's why others will train in krav maga instead of water down baqua. Good luck with your training
swimming on dry land, telling children that gold colored leaves are golden coins. I did fu style baqua and it isn't effective. Let me get into this position first and make sure that my way is the way.
@pa1019123 You had a bad teacher. Bagua is a good system. I personally believe in cross training. I've studied several arts, plus boxing. I think nothing is more powerful than Chen taiji.
@pa1019123 Ahh yes, a quote from Bruce Lee. He's one of my heroes, but he was wrong about "styles." The Chen Village has been producing top fighters for hundreds of years. When I was young and read Bruce Lee's stuff, I thought how wise he was. Now that I'm older and understand the forms, and what they are for, I see how wrong he was. But he was a young man when he died.
@kungfukennyg I trained with a chinese master who was a discipe of Joseph Chen, direct relative of chen founder and I do not have faith in them or their system. there was a chinese master that coudn't be pushed and bruce said I may not be able to push him, but I bet i can knock him out and he did on hong kong tv.
@pa1019123 Don't judge an art because you had a bad teacher. Just because he trained with Joseph Chen doesn't mean a lot. It depends on the student, doesn't it? You must be young. You keep repeating Bruce Lee comments. Give me some links to your videos. I'd like to see them. You can even send them to me privately.
@kungfukennyg why do i have to be young to believe in universal truths that bruce lee made know? why am I wrong because I don't agree with you. I was there,I trained with the chinese masters and most of them are liars and have parlor tricks. I don't care it you think a master has great fajing because he stomps the ground when he hits or whips his arm around this means nothing to me. I use to train in the internal too and hard sparred witha japanese karate champion and they don't care
@pa1019123 I didn't say you were wrong. I said Bruce Lee was wrong about styles. There are powerful fighters in every style, and it depends on the person. Many people have come to my classes talking like experts, with very firm opinions, and most of them didn't have a clue and never stuck with any art long enough to develop skill. Perhaps you are different, and that's why I asked you to send me some demo videos. Don't take it so personally. I've seen many great fighters who belong to "styles."
@kungfukennyg I really wanted to learn the internal arts, but am disapointed in what I have experienced by more than one teacher or the system was more like a dance and less for self defense. I am not an expert. I have a blackbelt in ninjutsu, did a weekend seminar with Ted wong, JKD, did 2/ 3rds of wing chun and learned all of the forms of Fu baqua and became disillusioned with it. I don't make my vids to public because I just put one on my site and it is a discussion on martial arts.
Great Demo of the Skill. The flow is superb, moving effortlessly into darting, small expressions of Fa Jin then back to deep, flowing actions. The fluidity is even more impressive when you consider his underlying body structure, which is always there, ready to receive force from any angle.
Don't be confused. Traditional Chen TaiJi Quan uses Chi flow and Yin and Yan philosophy. Chen XiaoWang uses Chi in his teaching. Sinking the Chi to the Dan Tien, things like that.
@zellzhou88 No, this appears to be just something he made up for a brief demonstration. The first part is similar to Laojia and Xinjia but the fa-jing section appears to be just for demo.
In this art, all moves or moving postures originate from the Dantien (the center). The Dantien is home base for one's power, and it is supported by the Kidney/Bladder meridians. One's power originates from here. The Kidney merdian begins near the Dantien, then it terminates just under the ball of the big toe of each foot.
As the teacher 'stomps' his foot, the energy is transferred from the Dantien to the foot. The energy moves not just from the physical, but also from the mental aspect.
@bwstripessam Wow, that comment shows a complete lack of knowledge about what tai chi really is. There are so many badly trained teachers out there who have been told by other badly trained teachers that tai chi is all about "chi" and none of them possess the body mechanics that are required for the martial art. And none of their theories have any basis in fact or in scientific proof. The information is there for you, if you'll just take the blindfold off that others have put on you.
@kungfukennyg One of the virtues the Chen family tries to instils in its students (apart from body mechanics) is not to argue with the ignorant and not to argue with the arrogant. Our teacher is Master Chen's son. Its not a competition, Taiji goes a bit deeper than simple body mechanics. This is where I step away, and let you win the fight. Have a good one mate, all the best with your Kungfu.
@bwstripessam I've seen members of the Chen family watching others in the Chen family doing taiji on DVD, and I've seen them storm around and speak angrily about what they are watching. :) In other words, they are not always above arguing about good tai chi. You are right, tai chi is deeper than body mechanics, but it is not mystical. Chi is a cultural term that has never been proven to exist scientifically. The people who focus on "chi" are the ones who don't learn the power of martial tai chi
@CLFDevil it is also a way of generating a shock power to the opponants arm which he is manipulating such that the wrist and elbow joints are compromised and 'blow up'. A crushed instep is a bonus.
Chen Xiaowang is absolutely amazing. I'm learning Yang at the moment. Lineage from early Yang Cheng Fu (before he started expanding into the Large frame) and it still has some of the obvious Chen influences (minus the overt fajin).
However, I once I am truly proficient in Yang, I need to learn Chen as well. The ultimate combination for my body.
@kungfukennyg: Thank you for posting this! I just love it:! I could use this as one of my demos too 'cuase it is short. He was doing the first ten forms from the Old Frame First Routine and followed it with the last section or the New Frame (Cannon Fist) or forms 55 to 71. Enjoyed it very much. By the way his son use the same thing in his demo also.
Saying 'this is not true tai chi' is like saying 'Pele didn't play true football.' It shows total ignorance of the subject. This man is the 19th generation standard-bearer of the Chen clan. He is a living legend, and is one of very few people recognised by the Chinese government as ' living treasure.'
I am surprised to find so many comments by people stating that this is not true Taijiquan. They obviously have no clue, nor do they realize who Chen Xiawang is! I study with Grandmaster Jincai Cheng in Houston, and was in Jiaozuo in August this past year (2009) to compete at the exchange. It was a fantastic experience. Thanks for sharing this video. He is one of my favorites to watch.
I'm surprised, too. You're right -- most people surfing YouTube have no clue about tai chi and try to sound like experts. They probably study Yang style -- there are so many really bad Yang teachers in America and their students don't realize what good tai chi really is. For one thing -- it aint moving meditation and it's not designed to "cultivate chi." It's a martial art, as Grandmaster Chen demonstrates in this video.
greatness doesnt always be come noticed until we realize ,and have a contex of what is being seen as something that takes cultivation which in the west is our way ,of onlooking at the top layer of most things and not realizing that we as a culture have destroyed most odf our history and its war craft .I would love to study with this person .tigersilk
its cannon fist not old frame. cannon fist is supposed to be dynamic with lot of fajin where as long form is slow as it teaches you body movements and how to feel and move your chi
I don't know the entire cannon fist form, as I haven't learned any chen forms (I'm a young student in old yang) but from what I've seen of pao chui, it contains most of the movements I recognize from it. However, as with most demonstrations (as my instructor has, himself, done) they do tend to mix various elements of various forms for display purposes and time constraints.
Hi! I'm interested in doing qigong and/or tai chi (not exactly sure about the distinction between them) but don't really know where to start. I am aware there has been much degradation in seen in many modern forms that are called 'tai chi' and would like to avoid such things.
There happens a local academy (yin yang tai chi academy) founded by Master Wong Kuan-Yew who says he was a student and friend of Chen Xiaowang.
I don't know Master Wong but that doesn't mean a lot. If he teaches Chen style, it's worth a try. If he teaches Yang style, he probably hasn't been a student of Chen Xiaowang.
The difference between qigong and tai chi is this: tai chi is a martial art and qigong is a meditation technique that focuses on breathing, calming and centering. Any good tai chi teacher teaches the martial aspects. Avoid those who don't.
Just to clarify, qigong is, generally, breathing exercise for meditation. Many forms of kung fu have some form of qigong. Tai chi is most famous for qigong simply because that's what most people associate with it.
Tai chi alone is a martial art. The forms tend to be used for qigong exercises in most publicly known tai chi schools. As kungfukennyg said, though, I would avoid instructors who refuse to teach the martial art of tai chi if you want to learn tai chi itself.
@tweek1133 Tweek Master Wong is a student of CXW-there may be a question about how long he studies under him but he did study with him, thats a fact. CXW actually lived in Adelaide for a short time in the -90's........
The only people I know of teaching Chen style in Adelaide are Master Wong & Master Leong :)
tweek Master wong is a student of CXW. There may be a question over how long he trained with CXW but no dispute what so ever over him being a student. CXW actually lived in Adelaide for a short time in the 90's.......... The only people that I know of to learns Chenshi in Adelaide are Master Leong & Master Wong
Helpful Friend, your comment shows that you know nothing about tai chi. This is the original form of tai chi. There may be no stomping in the watered down versions that you've seen, but this is tai chi as martial art. Try to know what you're talking about before posting comments.
Don't believe the old myths about how tai chi was created. They are legend only. Historians can only trace tai chi back to Chen Wangting in the Chen Village. The creator of Yang style, Yang luChan, was a servant of the Chen family and learned tai chi from them. This is historical fact.
Just seeing that you don't know who Chen Xiaowang is shows that you don't know anything about tai chi. Please do some research before making yourself look so dumb in your comments.
The association of hard with external and soft with internal is a wrong one. Hard vs soft is not the same as external vs internal.
Tai chi, like all kung fu, has internal and external elements. Tai chi has an emphasis on its internal elements, but most definitely has an external side of it. My instructor is a formidable fighter when he spars using tai chi. In our school, tai chi tends to have some of the hardest strikes among the various forms of kung fu taught.
Many kung fu practitioners don't care much for the internal vs external distinction. All kung fu variants have internal and external elements. The Wing Chun class that goes after my Taiji class does qigong (at least, Wing Chun's version of it) before getting into martial practice. Wing Chun is a very aggressive "external" art. All the same, at my school, Taiji is known to have very very powerful strikes and throws when sparring.
All kung-fu variants do NOT have internal and external elements. The internal arts are incredibly subtle and contain very specific skills that you don't know until you have studied them with a qualified teacher.
There is an old myth that says if you do external arts for a long period of time, you become internal. That's simply not true, because until you learn the unique body mechanics of the internal arts, you aren't doing internal. I've met many tai chi teachers who don't know internal arts.
The next time you see a Wing Chun person, have them get into their basic stance. Then look at them from a side view. From the waist up, they're probably leaning backward. That's mistake #1 in the internal arts. The folks I've seen also don't do a lot of whole-body movement in the same way as internal, and certainly no silk-reeling, so to say it's internal is not based on a knowledge of true internal arts.
I said this in response to another post and I'll reinforce it here: hard vs soft is not the same as external vs internal. Wing chun is a hard form of kung fu. It is very aggressive and has emphasis on its external elements. While it is kung fu, just like tai chi, it is designed to work differently. Tai chi is a soft form of kung fu. These systems work very differently.
However, both of them have internal and external elements. Neither is doing anything wrong. Both do what works for their style.
@kungfukennyg Thank you for your views, and for your candid expression of them. I happen to agree with you. After two decades in the arts, it still makes me sad to see how much dis-information there is in the community, such as it were. The biggest campiagn i seem to wage is gently telling my freinds the truth about what they see in the movies. Thankfully, they dont watch ER and think they are doctors, (but this HAS happened.)
@kungfukennyg True Namaste to you brother, and take heart there are others out there gently telling the truth about the Art with wisdom, benevolence, compassion and courage. Plus.. I wish I had sifus' fajin. ;)
@peacedefender I'm not going to pretend I know everything about Taijiquan or that I'm a Master. But I do know this. Taiji was originally a MARTIAL ART that over the years was watered down into a slow dance that hipsters in the Westside of LA like to practice to be cool like Yoga wo spiritualism. The fact he retains the Martial aspects is respectable. And internal doesn't mean there are no punches it just means that the power comes from something other than "muscle".
Well, having learned from him in person I can assure you he's just a man. A very talented and powerful man, but it would take more than a flick to knock an attacker off his feet. He could do it, though. :)) People like Chen Xiaowang are like Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods. They're the best at what they do because they've worked all their lives. For you or I to go one-on-one against Michael Jordan would be a joke, or to think we could go 18 holes with Tiger. All are amazing, none are superhuman.
@halgorithm Depending upon the person, that's entirely possible. I trained with Master Wu Shi-zheng (one of GM Hong Jun-sheng's students) and he could bounce me when I first started training with him about 3 meters. 6 months later, it was less than a meter under his tutelage. It's not much a flick as a push, using your own body against you.
The funny part is he's 142 years young.
FortLauderdaleAcu 1 week ago
@FortLauderdaleAcu I don't know what that means but I like it.
kungfukennyg 6 days ago
vERY NICE cHEN xIAOWONG
jonnyblaze777 4 weeks ago
Fajing takes years to even get it at the beginning level. But worth it. Also checkout one of the other 4 gems of Chenjiagou, Master Zhu Tiancai.
geyee 2 months ago
Thanks for your comments and explanation. I trained in Beijing in 2004 & 2005 and again in Shanghai, Chengdu and Kangding in 2006. Teacher, Master and Grand Master are their ranks.
47WMATAIJI 3 months ago
Since when are Chinese Martial Art Teachers, Masters and Grand Masters recognized by Belts? Recognition of perfection by belt is Japanese not Chinese.
47WMATAIJI 3 months ago
@47WMATAIJI The Japanese adapted martial progress to their culture and created the belt system. Americans got accustomed to that and so most martial arts school have some sort of ranking system. Don't take it so seriously. In good American schools that teach Chinese arts, even a student who reaches black sash knows that they're just beginning. That said, I have to point out that there are levels in Chinese systems -- just not presented the same way. There's a disciple, an indoor disciple, etc.
kungfukennyg 3 months ago
the technique involved in that level of fajing is really not easy to master
nahoj86 3 months ago
When we look at the master's level, Chen's and Yang's Taichi are so much alike. While the beginners seem do far away different. Solute to Master Chen, he shows what the Chen's Taichi is supposed to be.
Blackangelsean 4 months ago
Why there's differrent in details with my teacher teaching?
My teacher is 5th dan under Master ChuTianCai.
KlausYTY 7 months ago
@KlausYTY This isn't a regular Chen form. It appears that Chen Xiaowang is "riffing" for the crowd at this huge tournament near D.C. It appears he's taken moves from the form and done something very different just for a short demo. But his movements in his forms are often different from ZhuTianCai, Wang Xian and Chen Zhenglei and others. Here's the thing -- the basic principles should be the same but the artist can add his own flair after he learns the art -- like a painter.
kungfukennyg 7 months ago
how in the hell is this explosive?
guitarfetish342 8 months ago
@guitarfetish342 If you have to ask, you don't know tai chi. :)
kungfukennyg 7 months ago
@kungfukennyg yeah I do actually my father practised it for many years. Oh wait I see your point, you can easily appreciate someone stamping their foot as an "explosive demonstration of power" when everything else they do is extremly slow, right? Instead of telling me what you think I don't know you could try being a little more educating. Sorry dude but calling someone ignorant right off the bat like that is just retarded, why are questions asked? To learn.
guitarfetish342 7 months ago
@guitarfetish342 You are right. Your question was asked in a rather rude way, so I assumed you were just another online idiot commenting on things they don't understand. The stomping isn't the powerful part -- the fajing that he demonstrates in the 2nd half of the form is. I would guess that your father didn't practice Chen style - most practice slo-mo Yang. Chen Xiaowang is getting older but the power in his fajing is legendary. So the form is yin and yang - 1st half very soft, 2nd half hard.
kungfukennyg 4 months ago
@kungfukennyg :)
diavarezable 4 months ago
@guitarfetish342 If you have to ask, then you've never been exploded
harpoonflyby 6 months ago
I do not take karate or tiger but was taught similar strikes in ninjutsu, I am more relaxed than the karate guys and believe in hand sensitiviy, rooting, push hands, sticking . however in a fight we need to pack a wallup,which i supplemented the internal with weights & bag work. I taiji pushed a karate champ. he just went back a little and came forward like a beast. He could take my non lethal shots & I could take less of his eventhough I deflected 85%. endurance, power, pain tolerance help.
pa1019123 9 months ago
@pa1019123 Chen Xiaowang would have just punched the guy in the face or when the karate guy punched, he would intercept his arm and break it at the elbow. Then he would put the karate guy on the ground. Hard. Here is a video of Chen Ziqiang -- nephew of Chen Xiaowang and son of Chen Xiaoxing. He's one bad mother. Search YouTube for Chen Ziqiang San Shou and watch him in action. I tried to put a link here but it wouldn't let me.
kungfukennyg 9 months ago
@kungfukennyg I didn't see the clip yet but I wil today. see the karate guy was in kukashin ryu (mas oyama) and when I did a strike,he said we can strike eyes and throats too.look up kukashin on you tube.(bad spelling) He showed me how to dislocate a jaw hinge with a strike and their power is external. he asked me why I like that mysterious stuff, qi? My doubt of internal power comes from this experience, someone may claim that they can break an arm, explode organs,but can they really?
pa1019123 8 months ago
@pa1019123 No, they can't do that. Chi is a myth -- ancient legend -- or an abstract way of looking at proper body mechanics. Internal arts like Chen tai chi and Bagua (when done right) produce the same power as karate and other arts but in a more relaxed way because of different body mechanics. It's a physical skill, but it takes even more time to get right, and that's why there are so few internal artists who can do it. Few will study an art for over a decade before beginning to understand.
kungfukennyg 8 months ago
@kungfukennyg Chi is not a myth, but it has been mystified needlessly. I do Tai-Chi and am also a western trained doctor (Chiropractor). Chi, is a very broad label used to describe phenomena. You write about internal mechanics and the transference of kinetic energy, but that is a form of chi. So is blood, nerve impulses, hormones, etc. There are also qualities labeled 'chi' that we've not be able to measure yet. Being practical is important, but I wouldn't throw out the broad concept of chi.
Evanmander 8 months ago
@pa1019123 if a chinese master is stomping their foot, have the power to root, yeild and whip their hands, does that mean that they can take a hit or deal with the flurries of a good boxer who is the opposite of rooting, light on their feet? I think that wing chun footwork and deflections and the shaolin type conditioning would work, including the internal they do, because it is mixed with external too. internal alone, I don't know I never real hit one and they never really tried to hit me.
pa1019123 8 months ago
@pa1019123 To see what real internal fighting is like (but without joint breaks and hard strikes) search on YouTube for Chen Ziqiang san shou. He is the nephew of Chen Xiaowang and he uses internal principles in the matches on this video. Like any good martial artists, good tai chi fighters can break someone in half very quickly.
kungfukennyg 8 months ago
maybe this man is good, but it doesn't mean he will teach you it. I am not a MMA though I follow the philosophy of absorb what is useful. Not everyone can have bruce's speed and power, so his method could actually be dangerous for others. I asked a sifu I was paying, about the dantein and he said what is dantein, later that week I found articles he wrote about it for the taij magizine. He was chinese and taught under Joe chen. I also met another who said you don't need chi gung or meditatio
pa1019123 9 months ago
@pa1019123 Chen Xiaowang is extremely good. But you are right -- that doesn't mean he will teach you. I've learned more in an hour from my American Chen taiji teachers than I could learn in a week with Chen Xiaowang. I've been lucky to have teachers who ask questions of the Chen masters and try to find out the why and wherefore. I also agree with you about absorb what is useful and use it in my teaching. After 12 years in Chen taiji, I find that it's so good I've barely scratched the surface.
kungfukennyg 9 months ago
@kungfukennyg I heard that the most effective art is baqua and old yang style taij. I did fu style under a student of bow sim mark and they are a push hands and forms judge in Berkley CA. I was told Fu was very rare and effective, there was an article in inside kung fu that this founder founght all other styles like Bloodsport movie. Fu zen zong? in real life i felt less able to defend myself against a large crazy kickboxer on meth that my sister was dating. I perfer Uchei ryu & clawing .
pa1019123 9 months ago
@pa1019123 Not sure how old Yang style could be more effective than Chen, when Yang lu Chan created his art after studying Chen style. I have yet to see a Yang person who can fight as well as a Chen person. Bagua is a great fighting art but it, too, evolved out of Chen tai chi. Silk-reeling is important in Bagua - it was created for Chen tai chi. In the end, it's the individual, not the art, that is the great fighter. All styles incorporate some of the same principles -- it's the interpretation.
kungfukennyg 7 months ago
@pa1019123 And that's the problem. A lot of people don't get deep enough into it to see just how effective it is, or they don't have teachers that will show them. A lot of these arts take many years to truly become good, but when you are good, you can go toe-to-toe with anyone. Of course, that's true in any art. The deeper you go into Chen taiji, the deeper it gets. It's an amazing fighting art, but like anything, you have to stick with it and work hard. The definition of "kung fu." :)
kungfukennyg 9 months ago
@kungfukennyg where does this power come from, body mechanics, chi, rooting, kwa?
pa1019123 9 months ago
@pa1019123 Well, it doesn't come from "chi" in the way most people describe it. And by powerful I mean strong and effective. It comes from body mechanics that give you the ability to apply power in a manner that doesn't require a lot of muscular tension -- establishing and maintaining the ground path, peng (an expansive feeling that's a physical skill), whole body movement, silk-reeling (spiraling movement), dan t'ien rotation and opening/closing of the kua. And years of practice & application.
kungfukennyg 9 months ago
@kungfukennyg thanks well I have seen some of this type of power, the frustration comes from lack of finding a good teacher. If I had the opertunity to train in Chen again and they were good, I would do it too. But I need skills now in this violent world until the internal developes. for instance they say Yang is the best but not for today, when Chen maybe better, that's why others will train in krav maga instead of water down baqua. Good luck with your training
pa1019123 9 months ago
swimming on dry land, telling children that gold colored leaves are golden coins. I did fu style baqua and it isn't effective. Let me get into this position first and make sure that my way is the way.
pa1019123 9 months ago
@pa1019123 You had a bad teacher. Bagua is a good system. I personally believe in cross training. I've studied several arts, plus boxing. I think nothing is more powerful than Chen taiji.
kungfukennyg 9 months ago
nice dancing, organized despair
pa1019123 9 months ago
@pa1019123 Ahh yes, a quote from Bruce Lee. He's one of my heroes, but he was wrong about "styles." The Chen Village has been producing top fighters for hundreds of years. When I was young and read Bruce Lee's stuff, I thought how wise he was. Now that I'm older and understand the forms, and what they are for, I see how wrong he was. But he was a young man when he died.
kungfukennyg 9 months ago
@kungfukennyg I trained with a chinese master who was a discipe of Joseph Chen, direct relative of chen founder and I do not have faith in them or their system. there was a chinese master that coudn't be pushed and bruce said I may not be able to push him, but I bet i can knock him out and he did on hong kong tv.
pa1019123 9 months ago
@pa1019123 Don't judge an art because you had a bad teacher. Just because he trained with Joseph Chen doesn't mean a lot. It depends on the student, doesn't it? You must be young. You keep repeating Bruce Lee comments. Give me some links to your videos. I'd like to see them. You can even send them to me privately.
kungfukennyg 9 months ago
@kungfukennyg why do i have to be young to believe in universal truths that bruce lee made know? why am I wrong because I don't agree with you. I was there,I trained with the chinese masters and most of them are liars and have parlor tricks. I don't care it you think a master has great fajing because he stomps the ground when he hits or whips his arm around this means nothing to me. I use to train in the internal too and hard sparred witha japanese karate champion and they don't care
pa1019123 9 months ago
@pa1019123 I didn't say you were wrong. I said Bruce Lee was wrong about styles. There are powerful fighters in every style, and it depends on the person. Many people have come to my classes talking like experts, with very firm opinions, and most of them didn't have a clue and never stuck with any art long enough to develop skill. Perhaps you are different, and that's why I asked you to send me some demo videos. Don't take it so personally. I've seen many great fighters who belong to "styles."
kungfukennyg 9 months ago
@kungfukennyg I really wanted to learn the internal arts, but am disapointed in what I have experienced by more than one teacher or the system was more like a dance and less for self defense. I am not an expert. I have a blackbelt in ninjutsu, did a weekend seminar with Ted wong, JKD, did 2/ 3rds of wing chun and learned all of the forms of Fu baqua and became disillusioned with it. I don't make my vids to public because I just put one on my site and it is a discussion on martial arts.
pa1019123 9 months ago
Great Demo of the Skill. The flow is superb, moving effortlessly into darting, small expressions of Fa Jin then back to deep, flowing actions. The fluidity is even more impressive when you consider his underlying body structure, which is always there, ready to receive force from any angle.
MAResearcher001 10 months ago
EXCELENT
persistente1 10 months ago
Don't be confused. Traditional Chen TaiJi Quan uses Chi flow and Yin and Yan philosophy. Chen XiaoWang uses Chi in his teaching. Sinking the Chi to the Dan Tien, things like that.
dekal1 11 months ago
@DeCommonTater good call comrade.
bwstripessam 11 months ago
is this the old form?
zellzhou88 1 year ago
@zellzhou88 No, this appears to be just something he made up for a brief demonstration. The first part is similar to Laojia and Xinjia but the fa-jing section appears to be just for demo.
kungfukennyg 1 year ago
Legend!
PS3DLS 1 year ago
I've seen so many videos of him, every one of them truly inspiring. What a master. Thanks for posting, it's an excellent clip.
newnairobi1 1 year ago
In this art, all moves or moving postures originate from the Dantien (the center). The Dantien is home base for one's power, and it is supported by the Kidney/Bladder meridians. One's power originates from here. The Kidney merdian begins near the Dantien, then it terminates just under the ball of the big toe of each foot.
As the teacher 'stomps' his foot, the energy is transferred from the Dantien to the foot. The energy moves not just from the physical, but also from the mental aspect.
noclouds111 1 year ago
@noclouds111 Noclouds, you take the science way too seriously. It's body mechanics, not chi meridians.
kungfukennyg 1 year ago
@kungfukennyg Organs are not mechanical.
bwstripessam 1 year ago
@bwstripessam Wow, that comment shows a complete lack of knowledge about what tai chi really is. There are so many badly trained teachers out there who have been told by other badly trained teachers that tai chi is all about "chi" and none of them possess the body mechanics that are required for the martial art. And none of their theories have any basis in fact or in scientific proof. The information is there for you, if you'll just take the blindfold off that others have put on you.
kungfukennyg 1 year ago
@kungfukennyg One of the virtues the Chen family tries to instils in its students (apart from body mechanics) is not to argue with the ignorant and not to argue with the arrogant. Our teacher is Master Chen's son. Its not a competition, Taiji goes a bit deeper than simple body mechanics. This is where I step away, and let you win the fight. Have a good one mate, all the best with your Kungfu.
bwstripessam 11 months ago
@bwstripessam I've seen members of the Chen family watching others in the Chen family doing taiji on DVD, and I've seen them storm around and speak angrily about what they are watching. :) In other words, they are not always above arguing about good tai chi. You are right, tai chi is deeper than body mechanics, but it is not mystical. Chi is a cultural term that has never been proven to exist scientifically. The people who focus on "chi" are the ones who don't learn the power of martial tai chi
kungfukennyg 11 months ago
@kungfukennyg So true, to focus on one thing and not the whole is not the way to go, good call. :-)
bwstripessam 11 months ago
@bwstripessam
It has nothing to do with organs if you're a little slow.
It is merely a transfer of kinetic energy from tendon to muscle from multiple muscle-tendon groups.
EpicAthiest 9 months ago
Whats so cool? This is the 19th gereration lineage holder of Chen family Tai Chi.
Soo nice.
TheTaoistdragon 1 year ago
Simply GREAT :) I'm training Yang Style Family and I like your Chen!
88icho 1 year ago
I don't get it. What's so cool about this????
kimcheolho 1 year ago
@kimcheolho If you have to ask, it would take too long to explain it here. :)
kungfukennyg 1 year ago
@CLFDevil it is also a way of generating a shock power to the opponants arm which he is manipulating such that the wrist and elbow joints are compromised and 'blow up'. A crushed instep is a bonus.
roverdave 1 year ago
Chen Xiaowang is absolutely amazing. I'm learning Yang at the moment. Lineage from early Yang Cheng Fu (before he started expanding into the Large frame) and it still has some of the obvious Chen influences (minus the overt fajin).
However, I once I am truly proficient in Yang, I need to learn Chen as well. The ultimate combination for my body.
SsehKalai 1 year ago
@CLFDevil Sure, it can be interpreted that way. Also just stomping someone's instep or running your foot down their shin can do damage.
kungfukennyg 1 year ago
If one get punched by one of his canon fists at full force, one will die from severe internal injury. I'm not joking.
bigfatdick5000 1 year ago
Awesome, this is truly a master for obvious reason ...
cheers and tnc for posting!
QuanYin71 1 year ago
he would kick my ass
414myniggaz 1 year ago
@kungfukennyg: Thank you for posting this! I just love it:! I could use this as one of my demos too 'cuase it is short. He was doing the first ten forms from the Old Frame First Routine and followed it with the last section or the New Frame (Cannon Fist) or forms 55 to 71. Enjoyed it very much. By the way his son use the same thing in his demo also.
fungfranklin 1 year ago
@fungfranklin It goes almost 3 minutes so slowly, and then WHAM! Thirty seconds of fa-jing. I thought it was very cool.
kungfukennyg 1 year ago
A TRUE TREASURE of a man. Beautiful art in motion. God Bless.
NYBORI7 1 year ago
Saying 'this is not true tai chi' is like saying 'Pele didn't play true football.' It shows total ignorance of the subject. This man is the 19th generation standard-bearer of the Chen clan. He is a living legend, and is one of very few people recognised by the Chinese government as ' living treasure.'
This is Tai Chi Chuan at its very zenith.
TheCannonFist 2 years ago
Argh. I envy his control.
LordJoseifius 2 years ago
I am surprised to find so many comments by people stating that this is not true Taijiquan. They obviously have no clue, nor do they realize who Chen Xiawang is! I study with Grandmaster Jincai Cheng in Houston, and was in Jiaozuo in August this past year (2009) to compete at the exchange. It was a fantastic experience. Thanks for sharing this video. He is one of my favorites to watch.
tameradaun 2 years ago
I'm surprised, too. You're right -- most people surfing YouTube have no clue about tai chi and try to sound like experts. They probably study Yang style -- there are so many really bad Yang teachers in America and their students don't realize what good tai chi really is. For one thing -- it aint moving meditation and it's not designed to "cultivate chi." It's a martial art, as Grandmaster Chen demonstrates in this video.
kungfukennyg 2 years ago
greatness doesnt always be come noticed until we realize ,and have a contex of what is being seen as something that takes cultivation which in the west is our way ,of onlooking at the top layer of most things and not realizing that we as a culture have destroyed most odf our history and its war craft .I would love to study with this person .tigersilk
worldmedicine 2 years ago
its cannon fist not old frame. cannon fist is supposed to be dynamic with lot of fajin where as long form is slow as it teaches you body movements and how to feel and move your chi
recca182 2 years ago
This isn't really cannonfist. It's a demo - a very short form he probably made up on the spot. It has elements of Laojia and Xinjia in it.
kungfukennyg 2 years ago
I don't know the entire cannon fist form, as I haven't learned any chen forms (I'm a young student in old yang) but from what I've seen of pao chui, it contains most of the movements I recognize from it. However, as with most demonstrations (as my instructor has, himself, done) they do tend to mix various elements of various forms for display purposes and time constraints.
nimdae 2 years ago
Hi! I'm interested in doing qigong and/or tai chi (not exactly sure about the distinction between them) but don't really know where to start. I am aware there has been much degradation in seen in many modern forms that are called 'tai chi' and would like to avoid such things.
There happens a local academy (yin yang tai chi academy) founded by Master Wong Kuan-Yew who says he was a student and friend of Chen Xiaowang.
Does this sound legit?
Thanks :)
ps this is an amazing demonstration
tweek1133 2 years ago
Hi,
I don't know Master Wong but that doesn't mean a lot. If he teaches Chen style, it's worth a try. If he teaches Yang style, he probably hasn't been a student of Chen Xiaowang.
The difference between qigong and tai chi is this: tai chi is a martial art and qigong is a meditation technique that focuses on breathing, calming and centering. Any good tai chi teacher teaches the martial aspects. Avoid those who don't.
kungfukennyg 2 years ago
Just to clarify, qigong is, generally, breathing exercise for meditation. Many forms of kung fu have some form of qigong. Tai chi is most famous for qigong simply because that's what most people associate with it.
Tai chi alone is a martial art. The forms tend to be used for qigong exercises in most publicly known tai chi schools. As kungfukennyg said, though, I would avoid instructors who refuse to teach the martial art of tai chi if you want to learn tai chi itself.
nimdae 2 years ago
@tweek1133 Tweek Master Wong is a student of CXW-there may be a question about how long he studies under him but he did study with him, thats a fact. CXW actually lived in Adelaide for a short time in the -90's........
The only people I know of teaching Chen style in Adelaide are Master Wong & Master Leong :)
taijisb 1 year ago
tweek Master wong is a student of CXW. There may be a question over how long he trained with CXW but no dispute what so ever over him being a student. CXW actually lived in Adelaide for a short time in the 90's.......... The only people that I know of to learns Chenshi in Adelaide are Master Leong & Master Wong
taijisb 1 year ago
Excellent. Thanks for sharing.
leelch 2 years ago
This looks more like a commercial for fancy dancing shoes,.
Sure, he stomps so loud, but there is no stomping in Tai Chi.
Why is this called tai Chi instead of Old Man Dancing Slowly and Clumsily?
HelpfulFriend 2 years ago
Helpful Friend, your comment shows that you know nothing about tai chi. This is the original form of tai chi. There may be no stomping in the watered down versions that you've seen, but this is tai chi as martial art. Try to know what you're talking about before posting comments.
kungfukennyg 2 years ago
The "original form" are you kidding?
So was it the snake or the eagle that you think did the stomping?
Hard to see this as an internal style when it is so "hard" & external.
Would make a great commercial for old man dancing shoes.
Is this guy the direct descendant of some famous Shao Li n monk or is he a Chinese Republic stooge?
HelpfulFriend 2 years ago
Don't believe the old myths about how tai chi was created. They are legend only. Historians can only trace tai chi back to Chen Wangting in the Chen Village. The creator of Yang style, Yang luChan, was a servant of the Chen family and learned tai chi from them. This is historical fact.
Just seeing that you don't know who Chen Xiaowang is shows that you don't know anything about tai chi. Please do some research before making yourself look so dumb in your comments.
kungfukennyg 2 years ago
The association of hard with external and soft with internal is a wrong one. Hard vs soft is not the same as external vs internal.
Tai chi, like all kung fu, has internal and external elements. Tai chi has an emphasis on its internal elements, but most definitely has an external side of it. My instructor is a formidable fighter when he spars using tai chi. In our school, tai chi tends to have some of the hardest strikes among the various forms of kung fu taught.
nimdae 2 years ago
If Chen style Tai Chi means external, he's very good. Alas, Tai Chi is internal!
peacedefender 2 years ago
It's very obvious by this comment that you have no idea what tai chi is.
kungfukennyg 2 years ago
Many kung fu practitioners don't care much for the internal vs external distinction. All kung fu variants have internal and external elements. The Wing Chun class that goes after my Taiji class does qigong (at least, Wing Chun's version of it) before getting into martial practice. Wing Chun is a very aggressive "external" art. All the same, at my school, Taiji is known to have very very powerful strikes and throws when sparring.
nimdae 2 years ago
All kung-fu variants do NOT have internal and external elements. The internal arts are incredibly subtle and contain very specific skills that you don't know until you have studied them with a qualified teacher.
There is an old myth that says if you do external arts for a long period of time, you become internal. That's simply not true, because until you learn the unique body mechanics of the internal arts, you aren't doing internal. I've met many tai chi teachers who don't know internal arts.
kungfukennyg 2 years ago
The next time you see a Wing Chun person, have them get into their basic stance. Then look at them from a side view. From the waist up, they're probably leaning backward. That's mistake #1 in the internal arts. The folks I've seen also don't do a lot of whole-body movement in the same way as internal, and certainly no silk-reeling, so to say it's internal is not based on a knowledge of true internal arts.
kungfukennyg 2 years ago
I said this in response to another post and I'll reinforce it here: hard vs soft is not the same as external vs internal. Wing chun is a hard form of kung fu. It is very aggressive and has emphasis on its external elements. While it is kung fu, just like tai chi, it is designed to work differently. Tai chi is a soft form of kung fu. These systems work very differently.
However, both of them have internal and external elements. Neither is doing anything wrong. Both do what works for their style.
nimdae 2 years ago
@kungfukennyg Thank you for your views, and for your candid expression of them. I happen to agree with you. After two decades in the arts, it still makes me sad to see how much dis-information there is in the community, such as it were. The biggest campiagn i seem to wage is gently telling my freinds the truth about what they see in the movies. Thankfully, they dont watch ER and think they are doctors, (but this HAS happened.)
beatthinker 1 year ago
@kungfukennyg True Namaste to you brother, and take heart there are others out there gently telling the truth about the Art with wisdom, benevolence, compassion and courage. Plus.. I wish I had sifus' fajin. ;)
beatthinker 1 year ago
@peacedefender I'm not going to pretend I know everything about Taijiquan or that I'm a Master. But I do know this. Taiji was originally a MARTIAL ART that over the years was watered down into a slow dance that hipsters in the Westside of LA like to practice to be cool like Yoga wo spiritualism. The fact he retains the Martial aspects is respectable. And internal doesn't mean there are no punches it just means that the power comes from something other than "muscle".
didUhaveNorgazm 1 year ago
his rooting is excellent, his mingmen expanded, really connected to the ground.
noksoocao 2 years ago
knocked my teacher into a fence (and broke it) standing on one foot. this man really is what is said of him.
Wynstorm3 2 years ago
is this the chen style taichi from shenmue?
vsean2u 2 years ago
This is the original Chen family tai chi from the Chen Village. Chen Xiaowang is a direct descendant of Chen Wangting, creator of Tai Chi (or taiji).
kungfukennyg 2 years ago
Phenomenal power and control...
joshg8 2 years ago
I trained with him as well, very very powerful, never get in a wrist lock with him u want to hit the floor lol
mallyman1972 2 years ago
Correct.Been there,tried that.
VANJAKKOSTJUK 2 years ago
Similairities of taiji broadsword. Very
dynamic, old Yang feel to it. Thank you GM
Chen.
zhoudunyi 2 years ago
It's said that the Grandmaster could flick someone at a pressure point and instantly knock them off their feet. I do not doubt it one bit.
halgorithm 2 years ago
Well, having learned from him in person I can assure you he's just a man. A very talented and powerful man, but it would take more than a flick to knock an attacker off his feet. He could do it, though. :)) People like Chen Xiaowang are like Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods. They're the best at what they do because they've worked all their lives. For you or I to go one-on-one against Michael Jordan would be a joke, or to think we could go 18 holes with Tiger. All are amazing, none are superhuman.
kungfukennyg 2 years ago
They are superhuman but still human :) just gotta learn from them if possible :)
imbrd 2 years ago
@halgorithm Depending upon the person, that's entirely possible. I trained with Master Wu Shi-zheng (one of GM Hong Jun-sheng's students) and he could bounce me when I first started training with him about 3 meters. 6 months later, it was less than a meter under his tutelage. It's not much a flick as a push, using your own body against you.
SsehKalai 1 year ago
Truly the physical manifestation of Taoism. Slow/soft and hard/fast. Amazing.
manoterror 2 years ago
I like it!
LupanovaLena 2 years ago
don't wanna be hit by that guy :D
kempobrad 3 years ago
Man this guy looks like he can generate some Chi, nice snap and flow of movement. NICE.
seanamico 3 years ago
Great!
danbien 3 years ago
"The Energy is soft like the Spring rain, and hard like the crack of thunder."
RedCrowWalking 3 years ago