@robwalkeronline "The world does need debt; the importance is ensuring money is not too cheap so we can avoid inflationary binges followed by hangovers..."
Isn't that what is happening with our current system?
I do feel that a commonly accepted value "item" would be something that all people can recognise and so use. As long as the personal currency is "made of" the same stuff, all credits will have the same value. If something is valued more than another then more credits are used to cover the higher amount. I do think the value system needs to be kept out of bankers and financiers. Greed has robbed us blind. The money system is imbalanced because only a few people are close to its source!
@robwalkeronline You seem to imply that this system enlarges the state. On the contrary, it separates the money from the state and restores the credit commons and does not, as far as I see, preclude venture capitalism for entrepreneurs. People buy houses today by pledging their future productivity to pay off a loan of make-believe money. It is their IOU that becomes the traded commodity. Grignon has suggested how mortgages could work in the Digital Coin system at his website.
@batfly Perhaps the implications of your question beg more enquiry than the digital coin system itself? Why does the current debt system need to end? There is nothing to say that the two systems cannot coexist. Let the truly free market decide! But implementation needs to come from the ground up, as the banks and governmental institutions have huge vested interests in keeping things as they are (centralized power). This, in turn, relies on education. And here we are!
A glimpse of the future! The key concept that I get from this is ending the MONOPOLY over money issuance & credit currently held by the banks.
Money backed by real goods and services rather than perpetual debt.
One could choose to deal in different types (or grades) or issuers' credit coin. Presumably one could boycott the coin of certain corporations too. All would be handled electronically and I imagine there would be all sorts of brokerage currencies too with certain guarantees of value.
@batfly A key concept to get your head around is the difference between a monetary unit (currency) and a measure of value. We are used to measuring "value" in terms of pounds, euros, dollars, yen etc - thanks to legal tender statutes. But imagine if there were an objective scalar of value (just as we have "inches" to measure length or "Celsius" to measure temperature. Nobody "owns" inches do they? Neither is there is any central issuing authority for "Celsius." Sound ridiculous? ;-)
On face value it does sound ridiculous because measuring value is arbitrary, whereas measuring length in inches and temperature in Celsius is an absolute exercise.
I would be more comfortable with man hours being used as currency. Better yet, how about we use sexual favor promissory notes?
@batfly Yes, there is a subjective element to "value" but does this preclude us from defining a scale? (The subjective could be reflected in where we choose to place goods and services upon such a scale.) Monetary reformist Thomas Greco suggests that we use a basket of freely traded commodities (gold, silver, copper, etc.) as the basis of a new scalar of value. Surely this is better than confusing the monetary unit with the scalar of value? My penis is nine inches, but it is not the ruler ;-)
Americans, join the JULY 4th Independence from the FED Day!
From May 13th to June 15th, turn in $250, $500, $1000 or more borrowed FED paper FRN dollars in exchange for public debt-free SOVEREIGN US Mint dollar coins. Exchange rate is 1 to 1 from a bank, or your U.S. Mint with free delivery.
Start circulating on JULY 4th for anything you buy. US Mint dollar coins buy down FED debt!
YES, U.S. Dollars coins can replace FRNs! FED pays us Full Face value. Questions? Contact me.
I think there is still the problem of who controls such a system. Yes, you say in the end this digital money is owned/created by its issuers, i.e. people participating in the economy, but who designs the digital coin system with its checks and balances? Wouldn't certain individuals have access to the innerworkings of the system? Who would 'police' them?
I don't understand something. If every producer issues their own credit coins, then there at the local shop there will be a mix of coins from different issuers. If the value of this coins changes, it will be very hard to predict the buying power that you will have with time, given that you have a mixture of different coins. What if some company isn't able to redeem the credit because of some disaster for example? It's coins will collapse. Will I have the oppurtunity to reject coins from issuers?
The value of credit coin changes relative to other credit coin, but not with perpetual coin which is have permanent value. So, the buying power for the real goods & services is remain constant, but for the other credit coin, it will change overtime.
Yes it might be happened, but you also have credit coin from the other issuers, right? So you can continue your economic activity with another credit coin that still can be redeem. Not like today, if banking system fail, then everyone suffer
I don't think there will be many types of credit coin in circulation. Everyone will have the right to issue their credit coin, but that credit coin have high probability of being rejected by default in all transactions. The seller has to AGREE to accept it. Therefore, the only Credit Coins that would be likely to reach near-universal acceptance would be those of governments and dependable corporations.
@MKHRKTADMR I do feel that a commonly accepted value "item" would be something that all people can recognise and so use. As long as personal currency is "made of" the same stuff, all credits will have the same value. If something is valued more than another then more credits are used to cover the higher amount. I do think the value system needs to be kept out of bankers and financiers. Greed has robbed us blind. The money system is imbalanced because only a few people are close to its source!
@ShwangShwing Hello - sorry about delayed response - moved house! Good question! I don't necessarily have all the answers. Thomas Greco in his book "The End of Money and the Future of Civilization" suggests that a credit clearing exchange could have some built in "insurance fund" pool (based on taking a tiny fraction of all transactions) that could be used in cases such as the one you describe. You could use historical data to predict the value of coins (just as we do with currencies today.)
Nice concept. And why wait for the system to be put in place by an outside organizer. Seems the best industry to begin this sort of trade is a food producer.
@robwalkeronline "The world does need debt; the importance is ensuring money is not too cheap so we can avoid inflationary binges followed by hangovers..."
Isn't that what is happening with our current system?
kingdedede0070 2 months ago
I do feel that a commonly accepted value "item" would be something that all people can recognise and so use. As long as the personal currency is "made of" the same stuff, all credits will have the same value. If something is valued more than another then more credits are used to cover the higher amount. I do think the value system needs to be kept out of bankers and financiers. Greed has robbed us blind. The money system is imbalanced because only a few people are close to its source!
ScriptWorker 5 months ago
@robwalkeronline I agree with everything you say. Let there be a truly free market of currencies!
dfoxmaster 7 months ago
@robwalkeronline You seem to imply that this system enlarges the state. On the contrary, it separates the money from the state and restores the credit commons and does not, as far as I see, preclude venture capitalism for entrepreneurs. People buy houses today by pledging their future productivity to pay off a loan of make-believe money. It is their IOU that becomes the traded commodity. Grignon has suggested how mortgages could work in the Digital Coin system at his website.
dfoxmaster 8 months ago
Here is a major problem...
Let's say this new digital coin system is the bees knees and it is perfect...
How do we end the current debt system and implement this new system without major violence and bloodshed?
batfly 11 months ago
@batfly Perhaps the implications of your question beg more enquiry than the digital coin system itself? Why does the current debt system need to end? There is nothing to say that the two systems cannot coexist. Let the truly free market decide! But implementation needs to come from the ground up, as the banks and governmental institutions have huge vested interests in keeping things as they are (centralized power). This, in turn, relies on education. And here we are!
dfoxmaster 11 months ago
A glimpse of the future! The key concept that I get from this is ending the MONOPOLY over money issuance & credit currently held by the banks.
Money backed by real goods and services rather than perpetual debt.
One could choose to deal in different types (or grades) or issuers' credit coin. Presumably one could boycott the coin of certain corporations too. All would be handled electronically and I imagine there would be all sorts of brokerage currencies too with certain guarantees of value.
dfoxmaster 1 year ago
My head is dizzy just trying to comprehend the fractional reserve system...
Trying to understand this digital coin system is like 911 times more difficult.
batfly 1 year ago
@batfly Did you check out the YouTube video "The Essence of Money" - it serves as a great foundation.
dfoxmaster 11 months ago
@dfoxmaster
You are correct! Thanks!
batfly 11 months ago
@batfly A key concept to get your head around is the difference between a monetary unit (currency) and a measure of value. We are used to measuring "value" in terms of pounds, euros, dollars, yen etc - thanks to legal tender statutes. But imagine if there were an objective scalar of value (just as we have "inches" to measure length or "Celsius" to measure temperature. Nobody "owns" inches do they? Neither is there is any central issuing authority for "Celsius." Sound ridiculous? ;-)
dfoxmaster 8 months ago
@dfoxmaster
On face value it does sound ridiculous because measuring value is arbitrary, whereas measuring length in inches and temperature in Celsius is an absolute exercise.
I would be more comfortable with man hours being used as currency. Better yet, how about we use sexual favor promissory notes?
batfly 8 months ago
@batfly Yes, there is a subjective element to "value" but does this preclude us from defining a scale? (The subjective could be reflected in where we choose to place goods and services upon such a scale.) Monetary reformist Thomas Greco suggests that we use a basket of freely traded commodities (gold, silver, copper, etc.) as the basis of a new scalar of value. Surely this is better than confusing the monetary unit with the scalar of value? My penis is nine inches, but it is not the ruler ;-)
dfoxmaster 8 months ago
Americans, join the JULY 4th Independence from the FED Day!
From May 13th to June 15th, turn in $250, $500, $1000 or more borrowed FED paper FRN dollars in exchange for public debt-free SOVEREIGN US Mint dollar coins. Exchange rate is 1 to 1 from a bank, or your U.S. Mint with free delivery.
Start circulating on JULY 4th for anything you buy. US Mint dollar coins buy down FED debt!
YES, U.S. Dollars coins can replace FRNs! FED pays us Full Face value. Questions? Contact me.
prayfortruejustice 1 year ago
I think there is still the problem of who controls such a system. Yes, you say in the end this digital money is owned/created by its issuers, i.e. people participating in the economy, but who designs the digital coin system with its checks and balances? Wouldn't certain individuals have access to the innerworkings of the system? Who would 'police' them?
eiffuy 1 year ago
I don't understand something. If every producer issues their own credit coins, then there at the local shop there will be a mix of coins from different issuers. If the value of this coins changes, it will be very hard to predict the buying power that you will have with time, given that you have a mixture of different coins. What if some company isn't able to redeem the credit because of some disaster for example? It's coins will collapse. Will I have the oppurtunity to reject coins from issuers?
ShwangShwing 2 years ago
The value of credit coin changes relative to other credit coin, but not with perpetual coin which is have permanent value. So, the buying power for the real goods & services is remain constant, but for the other credit coin, it will change overtime.
Yes it might be happened, but you also have credit coin from the other issuers, right? So you can continue your economic activity with another credit coin that still can be redeem. Not like today, if banking system fail, then everyone suffer
MKHRKTADMR 2 years ago
Yes, you are free to accept or reject credit coin from the issuer.
MKHRKTADMR 2 years ago
I am free to accept or reject the coins, but with so many issuers I won't possibly be able to follow everyone of them.
ShwangShwing 2 years ago
I don't think there will be many types of credit coin in circulation. Everyone will have the right to issue their credit coin, but that credit coin have high probability of being rejected by default in all transactions. The seller has to AGREE to accept it. Therefore, the only Credit Coins that would be likely to reach near-universal acceptance would be those of governments and dependable corporations.
MKHRKTADMR 2 years ago
@MKHRKTADMR I do feel that a commonly accepted value "item" would be something that all people can recognise and so use. As long as personal currency is "made of" the same stuff, all credits will have the same value. If something is valued more than another then more credits are used to cover the higher amount. I do think the value system needs to be kept out of bankers and financiers. Greed has robbed us blind. The money system is imbalanced because only a few people are close to its source!
ScriptWorker 5 months ago
@ShwangShwing Hello - sorry about delayed response - moved house! Good question! I don't necessarily have all the answers. Thomas Greco in his book "The End of Money and the Future of Civilization" suggests that a credit clearing exchange could have some built in "insurance fund" pool (based on taking a tiny fraction of all transactions) that could be used in cases such as the one you describe. You could use historical data to predict the value of coins (just as we do with currencies today.)
dfoxmaster 11 months ago
Nice concept. And why wait for the system to be put in place by an outside organizer. Seems the best industry to begin this sort of trade is a food producer.
SoPsychoSexy 2 years ago 2